Is it possible for an individual to truly moderate in today's American political climate?

Yes, it is more than possible, it is probably how many people self-identify. But it certainly won’t get you elected anywhere.

No. If you are a moderate, you will be called a communist.

“Moderate” in politics is sort of like “Agnostic” in religion.

It is a bush to hide behind, a way to avoid having to defend your position. It gives one an excuse to not have to construct an argument.
Often because people in our time seem to generally not know how to construct a logical argument.
It is what happens when people are no longer taught the method of logic and the logical fallacies in school.

I have NO political affiliation (I don’t care for either party) & I’ve made it a habit ALL my life to vote for the person…NOT the party!!! In thinking back & adding up, I’ve discovered that I’m 50/50 on the party that I voted for. I don’t believe in labeling myself either; so, I guess to answer your question, YES there is such a thing as a true Moderate…I just don’t consider myself one of them!!!

I don’t think it’s possible to be “truly moderate” because the supposed opposing camps have such radical differences in their ideas and even definitions for words.

However I think it entirely possible to be “agreeing with different policies in both parties” or (more likely) ”(DIS)agreeing with different policies in both parties”.

^^^ Would that not make you a moderate if you agree/disagree equally with both parties???

I don’t agree that “moderate” is simply a label to hide behind. I think it can be, for some, but it’s not as if moderates by nature have no convictions. Moderates are often portrayed as “fence sitters”, as if they cannot make up their minds on any positions, but really, it’s not that moderates have no positions it’s that moderates don’t mesh perfectly with either of the increasingly-extremist “sides” that claim ownership of those positions. In some ways I’m a moderate, but it’s not as if I have no solid opinions; on the contrary, I have firm positions on most political issues. It’s just that when you go down the list and summarize my positions, you don’t wind up with an easy convenient label of “Democrat” or “Republican” (or “conservative” or “liberal”). There aren’t any more contradictions in my views than there are in the mainstream parties. I wouldn’t have my views if I found them contradictory or untenable. And I don’t need to “choose a side” just because that makes it easier for others to label me.

I guess that you can be truely moderate if you don’t care about politics.

Probably not ‘moderate’ because most moderates are perceived differently by different people. It is best to go independent and choose your candidate based on specific ideas that offer unique solutions.

You guys are split like a scalped frontier virgin, beyond repair.

“It is a bush to hide behind, a way to avoid having to defend your position”
For some sure but true moderates don’t let party lines dictate where they stand in the issues.

Personally: I’m pro gun, an agnostic atheist, wishy washy on abortion, I’m for serious healthcare reform, believe in strong environmental regulations, a capitalist at heart, I don’t think “taxing the rich” or really raising taxes is going to fundamentally solve any problems. I believe foreign policy should be one of non-aggression and non-intervention when possible. I think the borders need to be secured but immigration is in serious need of reform. I’m for small gov’t but certain things need to be state controlled such as critical infrastructure. I’m a strong believer in safety nets but not expansive social welfare programs that take care of those who are perfectly capable of caring for themselves but choose not to. I think weed should be legal and our prison systems only make harder criminals. I’m against the death penalty. I don’t think we should allow corporate personhood and that there need to be lines like church and state regarding corporate meddling with politics. I don’t think corporations are evil, I think they’re generally making our lives better for the most part, especially when properly regulated.

^^ I consider that “moderate”

I consider myself fairly moderate, but Republicans would probably consider me far left. Mainly because a lot of them think that any form of gun control is “getting rid of the second ammendment”. And that universal healthcare is “communist”

Well, my personal political views have not particularly changed. I’m very much in the center. My liberal friends think I am way conservative, and my conservative friends think I am way liberal.

Being moderate is just being sensible, but it seems common sense takes a back seat in American politics these days. No one thinks, everyone acts emotionally according to the latest nonsense circulating on social media. There is an unwillingness to engage with the truth or even to recognise it and in place of a healthy public debate on the important issues of the day we prefer to scream abuse at one another.

I think you can be a ‘moderate’ but like all terms it’s relative. But if you use your ‘moderate’ badge as a reason to not stand up against hypocrisy or extremism, then you’re not participating and you are using the term ‘moderate’ wrong. A true moderate would be engaging the extremes on both sides, not sitting out debates. I have a friend in the US that I consider a true moderate and she gives both sides hell. She has a legal and constitutional ethics background, so when she posts something, it is usually worthwhile to read it.

Absolutely. Now more than ever. The parties seem to be more extreme, so anything short of extreme is going to be more moderate.

Assuming the middle between center-right mainstream Democrats and extreme-right Republicans makes you a “moderate” is bad logic.

Medicare-for-all, tuition-free public university education, etc. is not an extreme left position. In fact, it’s standard practice for most of the developed world.

What @ScienceChick said. Moderate does not mean wishy-washy.

@gorillapaws so you think that if everyone paid everything they made to taxes, we might be able to afford tuition-free college and free medical insurance for everyone?

What about the half of us who don’t pay taxes? What would the other half who DO pay taxes live on, if it all went to colleges and medical care for all?

(btw most of the poor DO get financial scholarships and medicaid/medicare, and have for many decades)

Oh wow. It actually believes that the other western countries have 100% tax rates for everyone.

I am on Medicare and Medicade myself, and have worked as a financial aid counselor in a university. There was ALWAYS money for tuition and often books and other supplies for everyone I dealt with or sponsored.

@Yellowdog Is that how it works in Canada? UK? Norway? Sweeden? etc.?

We just gave away 1.5 TRILLION dollars in tax breaks—almost entirely to the 1%. We increased the defense budget by something like $80 billion per year. This is not about having the money to pay for things, this is about prioritizing what we spend money on.

Of course it’s possible and frankly, even preferred imo. I don’t think many people actually TRY to see all sides of an argument, they just want to win for ‘their’ side. It’s pretty sad that many adults don’t understand that.

The goal of government: The purpose of our Federal Government, as found in the Preamble of the Constitution, is to “establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”

The short answer to the question, after reading all the various posts above:

“No.”

Since when does saying you are a moderate means you aren’t engaged in what is going on around you? I have to disagree with @zenvelo and others that say that somehow speaking your mind on subjects and voicing a counter point of view somehow excludes you as a moderate. If you are a moderate, you are fighting on two fronts, man!

@Yellowdog “There was ALWAYS money for tuition and often books and other supplies for everyone I dealt with or sponsored.”

There are 44.2 million Americans with student loan debt.
The average student loan debt for the Class of 2017 graduates was $39,400.
Source

The parties seem to be more extreme

What? There isn’t much of a Left in American politics. Democrats are moderate. Obama wasn’t any kind of extremist.

The most extreme Democrats advocate policies that every First World country adopted decades ago.

The US student aide system is a parasite on the US economy. It lessens the value of a US university education. On the flip-side, frankly, I’m sick of US citizens coming here and getting the benefit of a system they didn’t pay into. Damn these kids coming to Europe as aliens benefiting from a system they never paid into. (I’m being sarcastic….. The more US citizens and others from third world nations come here and benefit from an education will only be the best of a positive feedback system.) I just met a PhD student from Tanzania who came here and over 5 years earned his Masters and PhD and was on his way back to use his degree. I was so fricken’ proud.

Not in the current two-party system.

When America gets their minimum wage up, taxes the rich more, and puts controls on health care prices then maybe we can seriously consider everything from free college education for all to socialized medicine, and other social systems. It has to be done all at once. The Nordic countries have more trust in their government, that’s one of the biggest differences. America used to be proud to have less corruption in government and more fairness for all. That’s all going down down hill.

Personally, I want to focus on getting socialized medicine. It’s horrendous to me the system we have. Obamacare did not make it any better for me, in fact right now I think it’s worse for me personally. Let’s tackle one thing at a time.

How about not paying for college for everyone until we fix the fact that tuition is ridiculously high. I don’t care if it’s tax money or out in pockets, why is it so expensive?! My dad went to college for free, undergrad and his PhD, paid for by local and federal government, and I am the biggest cheerleader for educating the public, but not until I feel like we aren’t being gouged. When I say we, I again mean either as tax payers or as people who pay from their own pockets.

I consider myself as someone who sees the points of both sides, because I definitely identify as a Democrat, but Democrats too often seem to idealistic to me. We are not Sweden, we are much much bigger, we have different problems, and we need to undo the crap that is screwed up in our country. Taking steps towards change I am in favor of, but I don’t think we can just do it all at once.

Moreover, the Democrats go too far for me too often in what they say. Lately, they are unapologetically mean, name calling, obstinate, and as “extreme” as the republicans who have been awful for years. I don’t mean all republicans or all democrats.

On immigration Democrats now sound like they want to let everyone in who wants to come in. I’m all in favor of granting more papers and being more realistic about immigration, but no country can just let everyone in at once. I HATE that republicans use the word criminal for people who come here without papers. I think it’s despicable to use that term. But, I also am annoyed that Democrats previously seemed to understand that border control was important, and now they seem oblivious to it.

If you live in the Northeast in an area that is basically void of gun talk and you would guess none of your friends own a gun, go live in Memphis, TN, and then maybe you will understand why the people there feel it’s impossible to get rid of guns and feel safe. I lived in Memphis suburbs, and did not own a gun, I’m only saying I understand why they feel as they do. It was the least safe I felt of all the places I have lived.

No one tries to understand each other anymore. I say I am fairly moderate, because I’m inately to the left, but I see why the right thinks how they do on some things. Memphis is nothing like Denmark, and I don’t mean because Memphis is 60 some percent black, I mean the entire culture is different. The question is, if we throw all the money at it, and provide all the social services, and education, and the wage increase will we get a happy place (Denmark usually is listed as the happiest country) everyone has a job, better life work balance, safer, less crime, less violence? Is it the chicken or the egg? I’d love to try it. Take a city or a state and try it. If it works well we can spread it around the country.

What’s wrong with showing ID at the polls? It makes perfect sense to me. It’s just that if we require it I think the government should provide free ID.

@JLeslie “We are not Sweden, we are much much bigger…”

I see this point being made often. I’ve never really understood it. Can’t something that works in a small country also work well in a large one? I mean you’d never say: “they have the internet in [some small country] that just wouldn’t work and could never happen in [some large country] because it’s much larger…” What is the actual objection? I’ve never really heard that point fully explained.

On immigration Democrats now sound like they want to let everyone in who wants to come in.

If you believe that, go find legislation, go find quotes, go find people who advocate that. And I mean people with influence, not some person with a blog.

You won’t find them, because it’s utterly untrue nonsense.

@Call_Me_Jay I actually agree with you that politicians are not saying it, it’s people on social media, and certainly not all Democrats on social media, but plenty are being irrational and loud.

When Trump became president and stated with trying to push through the immigrations band I had many many friends on Facebook talking about their ten year old crying, because they were afraid their Hispanic friends were going to be deported. It was all over my feed. Why the fuck is a ten year old worried about this to such an extreme?! Why? Because the parents are so worked up about it, and they are exposing their children to their worry.

Most Latin Americans in our country are here legally! The chance that their friends are here illegally is low. Moreover, even before Trump the kids without papers had the risk of being deported. None of that changed. The risk might be higher now, but believe me the families without papers are always fully aware they run a risk.

These far left friends I have who are very worked up and loud on Facebook seem to like that their children are upset. It’s the same as how I criticize pro-lifers for being their young children to protest in front of planned oatent holding pictures of a fully formed baby being stabbed with a medical knife and bleeding and the kid crying as he screens don’t kill your baby at the women going in. It’s wrong to do this to children.

Latin Americans themselves resented Cubans for getting automatic asylum. They understand countries have borders, we just are unrealistic, and live with our heads in the sand about immigration for some reason. It’s frustrating. Most people I know who are haters regarding immigrants are completely clueless about immigration and barely know immigrant families. It’s horrible

@gorillapaws Well, I would be happy to be wrong. Think about this, I would argue they we need a lot of government, because we are a large country. As population grows, more layers of government and more controls are necessary. As a new country with a small population, communities could govern themselves more. As we grew government grew, and I think some of that was necessary. The size of the population mattered. I’ve never been to Sweden, Denmark, or Norway, but my bet is it isn’t perfect, no country is.

I have always been in favor of federal minimum standards in education. Then along comes Common Core and I take issue with some of it. That doesn’t mean I want to throw the whole program in the garbage, but I want us to be able to discuss it. In America we seem to suck at discussing anything at this point. Some parts of our country are very different than others, I don’t know if the Nordic countries have such variety? So, like with school, will all schools being the same work? Part of me thinks yes it could. It would be good for property values too. But, then I want the fed to be good at running the schools. Will our fed be good at it? I’m not so sure. Who’s going to be in charge? DeVos? Ugh.

America constantly receives new immigrants since its inception. That is not true for most of the countries in Northern Europe, except for very recently. I think we are actually the best at it. I talk to Americans who live abroad and they agree. We may sound awful in the media, but overall Americans are extremely open, accepting, welcoming, and curious about other cultures in a positive way.

When I saw a show about happiness, Denmark was named the happiest country. They cited the social systems as being one of the main reason. People felt taken care of and safe. The wages were more even across all careers, and so people could pursue a career they enjoyed without worrying too much about earnings for their career choice. The person being interviewed said that he thinks part of the reason people are more willing to participate in the social system (pay high taxes) was because the population was so homogenous. Another reason was they saw their tax dollars working for them, they trusted the government. Personally, I think when a population is extremely diverse it’s the same as it being very homogenous, it’s the in between that seems to be tricky.

@JLeslie I guess the counterpoint is that that bureaucracy will be necessary whether it’s public or privately run, and that you can get economies-of-scale when it’s larger that smaller countries can’t benefit from—in theory, this would mean the US could be even more successful than Europe with Democratic Socialism because it’s a large country. For example, the administrative costs of Medicare as a percent of the total is many times smaller than private health insurance companies. That’s a perfect example of how the government can run things more efficiently than private business in certain industries.

@gorillapaws I’d be thrilled if it worked out that way. As far as Medicare for all of, or some sort of socialized plan, costs still aren’t controlled enough, and I don’t see much movement that way.

Moreover, I think Medicare for all is much like the Canadian system, which I don’t love. The doctor is still billing the government, and there is a shitload of abuse and fraud. I live in a retirement community and I see it and hear about it constantly. Mind you, I’ve experienced it with private insurance too, so basically the crack down needs to be on the medical professionals more than anything when it comes to fraud obviously.

You probably remember I grew up in military care, I’d rather expand that model, or encorporate it if it’s feasible. Less chance of fraud and abuse.

Just in terms of health care, there was a good set of articles in the (conservative) Economist magazine recently. You can read the editorial if you can stomach all the “Subscribe” pop ups.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/04/26/universal-health-care-worldwide-is-within-reach

@JLeslie I work in Phlebology (practice administrator). There are states where private insurance won’t pay to treat any venous disorders (South Carolina), and there is a policy for the Blue Cross Blue Shield in North Carolina that they will only treat “one vein per limb per lifetime.” It’s possible (and quite common) to have many symptomatic (painful, swollen, fatigued) veins in the legs that are medically necessary to treat. It’s also possible for veins that were treated previously to recanalize. In other states, private insurers are putting severe restrictions on what treatments are allowed (despite them being approved by Medicare). So here you are paying some obscene amount in monthly healthcare premiums and when it’s time to get treatment for a problem you have—only then do you find out that you’re fucked.

While not fraud by a legal standard, that certainly comes across as fraudulent when you are not able to get the care you thought you were paying for with your premiums. I’d rather not have dickheads who get 7 figure bonuses when they screw over enough patients making those decisions. The incentives are all wrong.

Conversely, Medicare fraud can land you in jail and by being excluded from future participation in Federal programs, will likely end your career as a provider. I’m more worried about health insurance companies.

@gorillapaws You don’t have to convince me, I’m all for socialized healthcare, I just want us to consider the options regarding socialized medicine and the pitfalls. I believe that the overall intention of the government would be to provide healthcare for the US population. I believe private insurance’s main goal
Is to make money. The latter is in direct conflict with providing care in my opinion.

@JLeslie I guess I prefer having the care be provided by private groups and the payment be from a single-payer. I really don’t think billing fraud is all that widespread, and it can be addressed by increasing enforcement if it really is an issue. I don’t think the government should be in the business of running medical practices/hospitals, but I do think they can make sure that care is paid for.

@gorillapaws This is where I am very conflicted. Your point makes perfect sense to me in theory, but then I personally know a woman who did the billing at a doctor’s office in Canada (CA), and she said CA limits how much a doctor can do certain procedures, so the doctors fill their quota (so there is still incentive to do procedures, a problem in America) and they try to do it way before December, and then they can take the holiday month practically off. They can’t make money anyway if they reached the limit. I realize we could divide it differently, but I’m just saying CA’s system has its problems. The wait time scare doesn’t really scare me. I have to wait sometimes in America too.

CA addresses problems as they come up. Wait time was long for MRI scans so CA started buying more machines; it’s being corrected. If you get DX’d with cancer you don’t have a wait time in CA. Diseases requiring immediate attention are attended to. Every Canadian I know that had something life threatening said they didn’t worry about receiving treatment. Although, one friend was treated for her cancer in the US and CA, and she preferred some of the little details in the US, but either way she was cared for. She has dual citizenship.

Our best hospitals salary their doctors. Johns Hopkins doctors probably make less at Hopkins than they could at other places. They still make a very nice salary, but they get to care for the patient without thinking about their own pocketbook. Mayo, Cleveland Clinic, I’d bet are the same.

US government per person health care spending is already higher than Canada, Germany, France, the UK, etc.

That’s GOVERNMENT spending, NOT including everyone’s monthly premiums and out-of-pocket expenses. Add the private spending and we already pay enough to fund TWO socialized medical systems.

We don’t have a health care system, we have an insurance system that keeps half the money and doesn’t give universal coverage.

Medicare for all would cut the costs in half and insure everybody.

Yes, it would throw a lot of parasites out of work. We can shift that spending to universal coverage, elder care, daycare, education, and infrastructure. There is plenty of work to be done.

^^I’m with you. The numbers are disgusting.

My mom told me earlier today that I’m Hillsborough County (that’s where Tampa is) an ambulance wouldn’t take someone to the hospital, because they couldn’t pay, and the person died. I’ve been meaning to look up that story. Just one of many where people die in our system.

Edit: I found the story https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/07/29/us/black-woman-ambulance-cost-florida.amp.html. I think it’s possible the story told by the ambulance workers is credible, but it doesn’t change that if the service was free I think the woman would have gone in the ambulance.

I actually agree with @Call_Me_Jay for once. The spending is Obscene and it’s going into the pockets of insurance and pharma. Getting out from under that should alleviate most of the healthcare problems we have here.