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JLeslie's avatar

Why do some Democrats want to get rid of ICE?

Asked by JLeslie (55928points) 2 months ago from iPhone

Do they not want any immigration force at all?

What exactly do they want regarding immigration enforcement? Do they want to go back to INS? Isn’t it basically the same?

Do they want the department transferred back to the department of justice? Is that it?

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18 Answers

notnotnotnot's avatar

Many people (not Democrats) have called for the abolition of ICE for years, and for many reasons. It’s refreshing to see some Democrats pick up the call. But I would guess that the reasons for wanting to abolish it and the proposed solutions vary.

Many of us see ICE as an organization that terrorizes the domestic population, destroys families, and makes everyone less safe. And we don’t wish to see the duties of these thugs shifted to just another agency. Calls for the abolition of ICE are part of a larger effort to stop the war against immigrant communities in general. The existence of ICE and their behavior is not compatible with a democratic and just society.

But I suspect some people who call for the abolition of ICE are co-opting the language in order to win votes, but merely want to rebrand ICE thugs and have them absorbed into another agency, so they can continue to terrorize the population.

Anyway, it is worth pointing out that ICE was formed in 2003 during the Bush.

elbanditoroso's avatar

It’s a silly idea, but not totally off the wall.

The US does need some sort of border patrol and enforcement mechanism. Every country does. That’s a given. We had such a thing for 200 years before ICE and it worked reasonably well.

The reason ICE is so hated now is that they don’t appear to have any rules. Or rather, they make them up as they go along. And they have no humanity in what they do. It’s as if they took the worst antisocial misfits in the country and put them into a cadre where bullying and nastiness is encouraged and rewarded.

And worse yet, they do their work with the explicit approval and support of the President and the government.

As @notnotnotnot wrote – they’re thugs. If they did their job honorably, that would be a different discussion.

notnotnotnot's avatar

Also, according to polls, 72% of Democratic voters have a negative view of ICE.

JLeslie's avatar

Negative view of ICE? They take orders. If there are some bad people working there, they would be bad no matter what you call the organization. It’s the policy and people giving the orders.

I actually am aware ICE was created in 2003. It’s under homeland security, it used to be under the department of justice. I mean to say INS was under the department of justice. I’m not sure why it has to be renamed.

So, the Democrats and progressives who want to get rid of ICE, I’m talking about the average citizen, not the politicians, what do they believe that means? Do they think there will be no deportations, and no border control? What’s the idea in their head?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I can’t top what @elbanditoroso said.

They weren’t under orders to sexually abuse the women and children @JLeslie. I imagine they take a LOT of license, knowing their charges are virtually helpless.

JLeslie's avatar

@Dutchess__III Those would be the bad people I mentioned. Their leadership needs to have consequences for those bad people obviously. This happens with all positions that have guns and authority. There are bad cops who do horrible things, does that mean we get rid of the police force?

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie There’s already an agency called the US Customs and Border Protection. We don’t also need ICE. It’s a redundant expansion of bureaucracy and a waste of resources. I feel the same thing about Homeland Security. We have the CIA and FBI already to protect against foreign/domestic threats. It’s just inefficient and wasteful to create redundant agencies with overlapping missions—I would hope that any “small government” Republican would agree with that.

That and ICE has been shown to do some pretty fucking God-awful things.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Even if they get rid of ICE there will still be agents doing the work ICE does now. It just gets rid of the reduction at the higher levels I guess.

I don’t think most Democrats who want to get rid of ICE are thinking about the redundancy. I think they think that will take care of separating children from parents and people won’t be deported. Some sort of fantasy they have they everyone who crosses the border is in an asylum situation, and we should take in everyone.

Believe me, I wish there were no borders anywhere and we could all be citizens of the world, and I want to change immigration law to allow more people in, but the extreme is just not practical.

mazingerz88's avatar

Some Democrats want to get rid of ICE because of its cruel acts. It’s that simple.

But only a naive Democrat would think that there shouldn’t be any effort to deter illegal immigration. Biden wrote an article about their administration’s efforts to try and fix the issue.

trump and Republicans would never compromise or adapt any humane strategies at this point. They are rabid for votes.

They’re using ICE as thugs to deter illegal immigration. That’s the issue. This approach has made America seem small.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Right, that’s how I see it, they are using ICE. If ICE wasn’t there they would just use whatever agency was there. It’s from the top.

ICE is just a mantra I think. It’s the same as lock her up and build the wall to me.

I really think a lot of people (both democrat and republican) think getting rid of ICE means stop deporting people, let more people in, etc. I’m going to take a poll on Facebook.

seawulf575's avatar

The arguments for abolishing ICE are inane. They terrorize domestic populations….they are looking for people that entered the country illegally…those aren’t domestic populations. They are breaking up families….again…taking illegal aliens away is not breaking up a domestic family. Not to mention, if you apply that thinking to all criminals, then murderers should be able to walk free, provided they have a family. After all, taking them off to jail breaks up their family. They are lawless thugs…some may be. But just like cops, most are probably very good people doing a thankless and difficult job. And just like cops, they get a bad rap. @gorillapaws I understand your statement and God knows I support killing duplication in our government. But it seems that Customs/Border Protection is concerned strictly with the immediate border. ICE appears to be for gathering up those that slip through. And in my mind, if you abolished ICE and let C/BP pick up the duties, you would still need extra people and they would still get a bad rap.
I think the drive behind “Abolish ICE” is to protect illegal immigrants. Period. So if you are for that, you support the drive. If you are against that, you don’t.

JLeslie's avatar

I asked on Facebook. Here is one answer for what it means to one of my friends when he hears “get rid of ICE.”

That means you do away with immigration and customs enforcement i would think is what they mean. I have not heard anything about US boarder patrol. Both fall under US Dept of Homeland Security along with Secret Service, HSI and TSA. I have not heard anything about creating a new Agency. To me it just seems beyond comprehension to just open up the ports of entry.

Pandora's avatar

I can’t speak for everyone but I don’t think the problem is having Ice. The problem is they are a bunch of unwatched storm troopers. There is no real overwatch and they are being used to intimidate minorities by the President of the United States. How often do you hear of ice being called on a person with a European accent or Russian Accent? I don’t believe they should be abolished but they need over-site, and people falsely accusing their neighbors of being illegal because they don’t like them, should face charges.

JLeslie's avatar

@Pandora Are people falsely accusing? I wasn’t aware of this. It’s like the Salem witch days.

Pandora's avatar

^^https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/ice-wrongfully-detained-nearly-1500-americans-report/

JLeslie's avatar

@Pandora That article was a little strange. It talks about the reason the person detained was a citizen, like through their dad’s side or whatever, instead of saying the year they became citizens. Detaining people for days or weeks is an outrage. I wouldn’t think it’s that hard to look over citizenship paperwork. Idiots.

seawulf575's avatar

@Pandora Just one comment on why you don’t hear about a European or Russian accented person getting swabbed up by ICE. The majority of people that enter this country illegally come across the southern border. They are mainly hispanic. The chart in this report shows by the numbers and country how many illegals were removed by ICE in 2016 and 2017. So by the sheer numbers of hispanics entering the country illegally, it is more likely to arrest them.

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