Social Question

mazingerz88's avatar

Are you willing to be evil to defeat another evil?

Asked by mazingerz88 (21148points) 3 weeks ago from iPhone

In things like politics especially.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

50 Answers

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

No, the ends do not justify the means.

Zaku's avatar

Depends on the specific evils.

kritiper's avatar

If it is a necessary lesser evil, yes.

ragingloli's avatar

If you are going to choose an evil, why settle for the lesser one?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli To help others. Like pedophiles disappearing forever. Oh well.

MrGrimm888's avatar

That’s voting in the US. Choose from the lesser of two evils. Legitimize one…

ucme's avatar

In certain scenarios, absolutely, of course.
Fight fire with fire, an eye for an eye & all that bollocks.
Although it’s better to lead a good life, there’s no denying we all carry a lurking threat, basic defence mechanism.

Bill1939's avatar

If you choose evil, evil wins.

kritiper's avatar

Is that an answer or a philosophy??

Zaku's avatar

Sounds like a comic book truism to me. (Possiblly written in ALL CAPS, and so referring to DOCTOR EVIL or something. ;-) )

In comic books and some Christian doctrine, Evil is sometimes personified as one or more devils playing a game against Good.

flutherother's avatar

Good guys are allowed to be evil in a good cause. It is the evil done by bad guys that is the problem. And how do we know they are bad guys? Because they do evil things.

LadyMarissa's avatar

I’m NOT an evil person at heart…still evil loses it’s definition when given NO other choice!!! I love @Bill1939‘s response!!!

My motto has always been “I can be your BEST friend or your WORST enemy. It’s YOUR choice!!!”

kritiper's avatar

But it doesn’t answer the OP’s question.

seawulf575's avatar

I think it is a losing proposition. It assumes that you, as the reader, know beyond any doubt what evil looks like and can adequately differentiate between levels of evil. If you do evil, you are evil. Period. If you try using evil to battle evil, you have become that which you purport to abhor. Trying to say something evil is okay because it isn’t as evil as something else is mere justification. It is still propagating evil.

MrGrimm888's avatar

A classic example, to me, is WW2. The world had to resort to evil, to combat evil. Like Antifa… Sometimes “evil,” is a necessary reaction to evil.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

It’s important to understand that self defense is not “evil”
Antifa is a perfect example of why combating evil with evil is the wrong move. They actually gave the other side power and exposure. They’re just as misguided, angry and immature as the people they’re protesting.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Antifa was a reaction to the growing Nazi threat in Europe. Diplomacy, and happy thoughts weren’t matching the increasingly publicly violent facists.
It’s a perfect example of why Antifa has gotten traction in America. If I see any “Proud boys” starting shit in my city, rest assured that I will run them out of town. If I have to drag them out, or take them in pine boxes, so be it.
I’m not a member of Antifa, but I don’t see any problems with confronting these nationalists with zero tolerance for their bigotry, and hate. Neither of which have a place in America.

You don’t consider a surgeon an “evil” person, for cutting out a tumor. I ask all Far righters to get the hell out of my country. If they continue to metastasize, we will simply have to cut them out.

The right, to me, epitomizes “evil.” And they do themselves no favors claiming to be religious, or victims. Unless they see the truth that they are victims of their own hate, selfishness, greed, bigotry, and gullibility.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@MrGrimm888
People with extreme political views are insecure, have low self-esteem,have possibly been through trauma and/or are simply unintelligent. You fight those people using that knowledge, not with pepper spray or water balloons filled with piss. Sorry, Antifa literally gave these people more of a voice than they had. Their instigation has caused serious injury and death. They’re not much better than the nazis and are a different form of cancer. Their approach is idiotic to be polite. Realize that roughly half of the country identifies as right wing when you speak of “the right”. Perhaps you don’t really “know” the right. Half the country is not “evil.” I think you may just be a little angry inside yourself.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I actually think.of Antifa as more of a healthy country’s immune system. Notice that Antifa didn’t take over governments in Europe, once the Nazi threat was taken away. The same is likely here. When you have a disease, your white blood cell count swells, to combat the problem. Once the problem is gone, WBC counts return to normal.

You can’t fight Trumpers with knowledge. This pond is exhibit A. I have not once threatened a jelly. I HAVE been called names, and I have been told that at least one Trumper tried to get me thrown out of Fluther. All for simply calling them out on their bigotry.

The right isn’t evil. Trumpers are.
If their agenda doesn’t make you “a little angry inside yourself,” I recommend you spend some introspective time in the mirror.

I’ve lived in the south off/on most of my life. I have a very accurate view of conservatives. All of my views are garnered from personal experiences, and observations. Not by brainwashing, manipulation, and lies, like how most on the right form their opinions.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

What exactly is a “Trumpers agenda”

MrGrimm888's avatar

^It’s a ridiculous clinging to a society that had white Christian men in power. A fear of losing a culture that only really existed in old sitcoms, and Back to the Future.

It’s a fear of other cultures taking over. Other languages. Other religions.

A fear of mixing races/becoming a minority.

The fear of what being a minority means politically.

The fear of one day seeing more brown people, than white. The fear of other religions, or no religions changing the way the country, and it’s laws run.

The fear that an even playing field, or lack of privilege, will be corrosive to white Christian power.

The fear of homosexual marriage, and homosexual couples raising children.

The fear of civil rights, for all but white Christians.

The fear of God judging them, for abortions, and birth control.

The fear of being WRONG, on a lot of important issues.

Now. This is the important part. The Trump agenda, does not necessarily address each of those. But it prays on the “fears” (real, imagined, or manufactured by the GOP,) of it’s base to help insert the real agenda. It’s obvious to a blind man.

Once in full control, Trump made vast tax cuts (83% of the new cuts went to the top 1%.)

He gutted the EPA, and removed dozens of restrictions on companies’ environmental impact. Increasing profit margins for massive companies, at the expense of the environment.

Throw in his pushing through of pipe lines, and removal of protection from multiple regions, for resource development, and/or mineral wealth evaluation.

No more Iran deal.

Saudi Arabia is cool. Won’t ban them from traveling here, or hold them accountable for killing a journalist. Or the 9/11 bunch, from there.

Oh. We will ban billions though. For nothing. Well. Other than that they’re brown, and not Christian.

Separation of children/families. Yep. Whatever it takes to keep the brown people out…
No plans to reunite the families? Who cares? They’re just brown, non-Christian people… Gotta mention that Trump invited white people….

Start a trade war. Nice.

Approve a military budget that pushes the debt to record levels.
(Although Trump said he would reduce military spending.)

Keep trying to take health care from tens of millions of Americans.

Why not. Go after social security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

Go after women’s rights. Strip them of the freedom over their own bodies. After all, white Christian men know what’s best for these feeble minded girls.

Rig voting districts, and stop as many minority votes as possible.

Make war on ourown intelligence services, to help the administration avoid transparency/accountability.

Obstruct justice.

Insight violence.

Empower hate.

Encourage intolerance.

Lie.

Lie.

Lie.

Lie.

Lie.

Deflect.

Lie.

Deflect.

Hurt people for their own benefit.

Hurt people for no benefit…

“What exactly is a Trumper’s agenda,” to you? As BS free, as possible….

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Wow. I used to think you had some smarts. I’ll rethink that after that extremely narrow-minded diatribe.

ragingloli's avatar

@seawulf575
He is absolutely right, you know.

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli no, I know he is absolutely wrong. He is re-stating every lie the media and the liberal leaders have spewed about “Trumpers”

ragingloli's avatar

lies facts

MrGrimm888's avatar

It’s all either observation, action, or words straight from Trumpers and their politicians. You can consider the media biased for reporting on it, but it’s still factual.

The reality is that Trumpers refuse to believe their own eyes, and ears. But will happily believe whatever Trump wants them to.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . Feel free to offer retort, or simply answer my question. What is Trump’s agenda, to you? Like I said, with as little BS as possible please…

seawulf575's avatar

How about this:
People that voted for Trump and support him:
1) Don’t want our nation becoming a socialist septic tank.
2) They believe that legal immigration is okay, but illegal immigration isn’t
3) They believe that people immigrating to this nation should assimilate to our nation, not the other way around
4) They support religious freedoms, but don’t support things like Sharia Law.
5) They believe in the integrity of the law
6) They believe in things like innocent until proven guilty, not guilty by accusation until you prove your innocence.
7) They don’t believe in government support for agencies that perform abortions. See #5 above.
8) They believe more government is never a good thing. More regulation is almost never good.
9) They believe that career politicians are one of the biggest problems in our nation
10) They believe in help up not hand out.
11) They believe that the more you want from your government, the more freedoms you are giving up.
12) They believe in Social Responsibility before Social Justice. Justice always comes after responsibility.

Now, let’s tear your diatribe apart:
All your statements about fearing minorities and cultures and white privilege and white power are all nothing but uber-liberal talking points. They have no basis in reality for most conservative Americans. It is the LEFT that keeps bringing those things up when they want to castigate someone.
Your worry about giving the wealthy favors is a joke. Remember Obama’s QEs? He made sure all his rich cronies benefited tremendously and the people got….nothing. Tax breaks that put money into working people’s pockets, entice businesses to stay in this country, and help companies expand and hire are good tax breaks. Yes, wealthy people do benefit. Get over it. Ross Perot stated it best….it doesn’t matter how the economy goes. He is wealthy enough to benefit under all changes. I have challenged you and the other liberals on here to specifically describe what you think would be a good change that actually helped working people without benefiting the “wealthy”. NONE of you could or would do it.
Trump removed EPA regulations that went into place under Obama that did nothing but move control of many, many things under the control of the government. They did nothing to actually protect the environment.
The Iran deal was a joke to begin with. It was illegal to boot. It needed to be dissolved.
Saudi Arabia…wait….I thought Trump wanted to pass a “Muslim Ban”. Isn’t that what the liberal elite, media and adherents all screamed about? Now you are saying that was a lie? Imagine that. Get onto your own side of that argument.
Oh. And we will ban millions not for being brown or non-Christian, but for not being properly vetted and coming from areas that have sworn terrorist action against us. Why is that so hard for you on the left to accept? Oh. That’s right. You supported Obama. Nevermind…it all becomes clear.
Separating families. You mean like the past couple presidents did as well…including your hero Obama? Yeah. Forget that there is human trafficking going on across the border into our country and that children are often sold. Forget that there are more unaccompanied minors than families crossing the border every year. Forget all that….just try to make it about race. Oh, and by the way…most people south of us ARE Christians.
“Start a trade war. nice.” Sad how you like to view things. How about this: get rid of the unfair trade deficits that hurt our country? Yeah…those. Get rid of NAFTA which was a poorly designed mess that hurt us from the start, but come up with something more amicable for us…you know…something that Mexico AND Canada agreed with. Nice is right.
Increases in military spending were needed. The soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen hadn’t seen a pay increase in years thanks to Obama. Imagine if you worked for years without getting a pay increase. Given the increase in inflation you would be effectively taking a pay cut each year. So when you go risk your life so you can get screwed with a pay cut, you might have room to talk. Besides, he offset many of the increases by getting rid of useless parts of the EPA and the State Dept. Isn’t that how a budget works?
“Keep trying to take health care from tens of millions of Americans.

Why not. Go after social security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

Go after women’s rights. Strip them of the freedom over their own bodies. After all, white Christian men know what’s best for these feeble minded girls.

Rig voting districts, and stop as many minority votes as possible.” ALL of these are opinions that have no real basis in fact. Sorry.

I will continue on in a bit…I have to go for an appointment right now. But you get the gist. NOTHING you said is actual fact but is definitely liberal rhetoric.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Lol… Your list has absolutely nothing to do with policies being pushed by the administration.

None can be reflected in actually policy. It sounds more like a list of what would MAGA. I asked nicely for “as little BS as possible.” I suppose, given your limited adherence to facts/transparency, that this will have to do.

Lol. Rigging voting districts. Not only does this have basis in fact, it is the tip of the iceberg. Republicans have gone to great lengths to suppress minority, and poor voters. You know, the ones who vote D?

Everything from same day registration, to voter ID laws, to how the county voting lines are drawn. It’s ALL a REAL political conspiracy, to help the GOP.
Some districts will be forced to be redrawn, by court order, as they were PROVEN to be rigged by the RNC.

In fairness, I HAVE heard of this being done by the dems, but at an exponentially lower, less effective rate….

I do love that you brought up things that have “no basis in fact.” Like 40% of what Trump says to you sheep… But he says it loud. With small words….

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Not that I really took you very seriously before but I sure won’t be going forward.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Awwww….. Ditto….

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Maybe it is time to revisit what you stated. Nothing you listed is a policy of the Administration. You also said it was the “Trumpers agenda”. so you really weren’t talking about Trump’s policies, but what you believe those that support him believe in. So while you want to try rewriting your intent, I specifically responded to your idiocy. You have now gone on to trying to double down. Rigging voting districts: How is that Trump’s agenda? How is that a “Trumper’s Agenda”? But you are trying to throw out any and every thing and assign it to Trump and anyone that might dare to follow him. Here’s a clue: redrawing voting districts isn’t a federal thing. It is a state thing. It has been going on for more than a century. It WAY precedes Trump. Not that I would expect facts to actually sink into your brain. You aren’t wired that way. Voter ID laws are another liberal talking point. You do realize that at least 32 states have some version of voter ID and have for many years? And guess what? There is absolutely zero evidence of it suppressing votes. None. Zero. Zip. Take that talking point and send it through the shredder.
So while you are hinting that Trump followers are easily persuaded, you might want to pull a mirror out and look into it. Make sure you right “GULLIBLE” at the top so you can see what that looks like in real life.

flutherother's avatar

@seawulf575 There may be good reasons for supporting Trump, aside from the many reasons why not, but is the number one reason really to prevent America from turning into a “septic tank”.

mazingerz88's avatar

Trump worshipers just couldn’t figure out why trump shouldn’t be the one leading any political party anywhere on this earth.

They want to believe they’re doing the right things despite being led by a piece of turd in human form.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . Trump is the figure head of the GOP. So yes, I will tie him to their actions.

I enjoy how you act like Trump doesn’t make public statements that contradict your arguments. You act like “trade war” was manufactured by the media. Trump said the words. The media just reports on it. Same with almost every single part of his agenda that you claim is made up.

I’m trying to wrap my head around why judging someone for what THEY say, and do, is gullible…

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Okay, so by that logic, then the DNC is responsible for all the violence against conservatives, right? After all…the personal and group attacks are all done for political reasons and so the leadership of the DNC should be held responsible, right? There was a huge spike in violence against any Trump supporters right before he was elected. So should we hold Hillary responsible for those? AND…she didn’t denounce the violence at all. Trump has come out, and did so immediately denouncing this. So which is it…do you hold Dems accountable for all the violence and upheaval the left has caused for more than 2 years or are you just a hypocrite?

MrGrimm888's avatar

No. The country is reacting to what the Trump administration is doing. They sucker punched the country, and it’s fighting back. Republicans, and conservatives are simply feeling the ramifications of THEIR actions. This isn’t a dictatorship (yet.) America won’t sit back and watch itself being turned into Trumpland.

Just like typical bullies, Trumpers start crying when their victims fight back. Because they are cowards. They picked a fight, and now they’re crying to Mommy about being the real victims. Pathetic…

seawulf575's avatar

So you support violence and evil. Got it. Trump did not “sucker punch the country”...he won the election. Get over it. All you are doing is calling for violence because you don’t like the outcome of the election or the winner. I didn’t like Obama but I didn’t call for violence because he won. THAT is a huge difference between us. I am sane and rational and you are irrational and violent.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf They will never get over Trump winning the election. If all their millenials and nonvoters would have made the small effort to vote, he wouldnt have.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I think if the DNC had run anyone except Hillary Trump would never have had a chance.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Are Very likely. Many of us truly could not vote for her, ever. I see the Libertarians and Constitutionalists are really amped up right now, ready to play hard. Good strategy for 2020, since Reps and Dems have been so offensive.

mazingerz88's avatar

Belittling trump haters as “not being able to get over he won” is immature. So obvious to anyone with a brain this is more about what this douche is doing AFTER he won.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Mazinger Immature is a two year continuous tantrum.

mazingerz88's avatar

Yup. Freakin douche trump just won’t quit with his tantrums.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawukf575 . Trump has done a LOT of damage to our country, and the world. Call it whatever you like. Americans (the good ones) ARE fighting back. As Trump’s actions continue, combined with his inflammatory rhetoric, he will upset and therefore bring into action more and more Americans.

I support violence when necessary, absolutely. As Trumpers push, I’ll push back.

Supporting evil? That’s you hypocrite.

@KNOWITALL . Surely you have the sense to differentiate between being upset about one thing for two years, and being given thongs to be upset about almost daily. Maybe Hillary is still upset about losing, but that’s it… As with so many things Trump, his rhetoric exacerbates all his deplorable actions. His words may unify his base, but they are also adding people who resist him. He created the swell in Antifa ranks, and he helps their numbers grow.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 as usual, you have nothing but liberal spew points. But you did make an interesting statement and I will now use it to beat you over the head with it because it is so full of hypocrisy and you can’t even see it.

“I support violence when necessary, absolutely. As Trumpers push, I’ll push back”

Much of the upheaval, riots, and violence comes from the left. BLM and Antifa are nothing but paid instigators and thugs….paid for by the left. The are bussed in to cause problems. We find that sort of behavior carrying over to the unpaid liberal stooges as well. Trump supports have been physically assaulted by rabid liberals. So by your logic, what you are seeing then is Trump supporters pushing back because the liberals pushed. So they (Trump) supporters should be in the right. Because when somebody pushes you, you are not only allowed, but are encouraged to push back, right?

Do you really ever stop to listen to your own hatred spewing out?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm I’ve told you I wont discuss politics with a nonvoter, its pointless.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . “Much of the upheaval,riots and violence comes from the left.” That’s the reaction of which I speak. When Trump’s agenda is stopped, the push back will stop. Simple. Even for you.
Keep crying because you can’t take it when the other side pushes back.
Yes. People are encouraged to fight against bullies, and wrong doers. And yes, bullies can’t take it when their victims fight back, and go crying to Mommy. That’s all I see from the right. Crying over being exposed, and treated the way they deserve to be treated. Awwww….

@KNOWITALL . Sounds like you are refusing to contribute to politics, because it’s “pointless.” Being as that is my motivation for not voting, I think that easily paints you as a hypocrite.
Oh well. One less voice from the right. I guess I won this round. Your surrender is graciously accepted, and I will consider this as you conceding to all of my views being correct.

Now. On to the beat the next conservative! We shall overcome!...

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther