General Question

stanleybmanly's avatar

How many of us are afraid of the upcoming caravan invasion of diseased criminals?

Asked by stanleybmanly (18391points) 2 weeks ago from iPhone

I’m so afraid, I can’t sleep, feed or bathe myself. Thank God marijuana is now legalized,

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

133 Answers

Pandora's avatar

The only thing that worries me is that a bunch of people will arrive and instead of giving them the opportunity to work and pay taxes, and contribute to the community, they will be set up in tent cities that will cost tax payers a lot less than a wall. People who can walk all those miles for weeks and sleep outside all that time are not lazy people. An the criminals will either fly or take a boat. So what is left is poor people looking for a better life who are escaping hunger or gangs. People who are no stranger to working hard and making due with very little. Who farmers can hire and still make a profit and can compete with other markets when they sell their produce. Our young people snub their noses at working in Burger joints, in an air conditioned environment, or doing manual labor., you don’t think they are going to work the farms? The moment you tell them they have to work on Saturdays, it is a few weeks before they move on.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Next to landing of alien craft from a distant planet, this caravan is my biggest concern.

What a crock.

mazingerz88's avatar

Fear and small mindedness for votes. In a democracy, that’s the real terror.

janbb's avatar

I’m afraid for them not of them.

johnpowell's avatar

Somewhat low on my list of concerns at the time.

chyna's avatar

The cootie factor alone scares me.~
I’m afraid for them. Trump is saying the soldiers may be turning their guns on the immigrants. I’m afraid for our country if our president is encouraging this kind of action. Gunning down men, women and children that are running from the same kind of treatment in their own country is appalling.

janbb's avatar

Yes, if we were had a reasonable process for handling asylum seekers, we could be preparing for processing them and providing decent temporary housing. All this red meat waving and militarism is just political grand standing at best. The troops might be better used helping out storm damaged areas of the South if they are to be deployed internally.

LadyMarissa's avatar

I fear a racist leader a LOT MORE than anyone in the caravan!!!

notnotnotnot's avatar

I’ve seen this movie before. Spoiler alert! The call is coming from inside the house.

seawulf575's avatar

Apparently many of the Dems running for election/re-election are terrified of this caravan. Well, at least of questions about the caravan. They all keep pulling the “no comment” card.

LadyMarissa's avatar

^The Dems don’t “need” to speak…trump is helping them out sufficiently!!!

notnotnotnot's avatar

^ They do need to speak up. Now. And loudly. Silence is complicity.

kritiper's avatar

How can anyone fear when we have so many guns up here???

tinyfaery's avatar

How do I roll my eyes via words?

We should employ the troops to take out the white supremacist organizations. They have caused more harm in the past two years than any immigrant ever has.

JLeslie's avatar

Afraid? I wouldn’t call it afraid. I do think that there is a serious problem that now our country seems very extreme one way or the other on the immigration issue.

Of course we need to keep known criminals out. Of course we can’t just completely open our borders and hand out legal status to everyone. Of course the vast majority of these people are looking for opportunity and work and a better life for themselves and their families, and will likely positively contribute to our country, and of course I want to help people be able to live in a safer more prosperous country like America, thank goodness my family was able to emigrate here. The conversation of late makes it sound like all of these things can’t be true at once, but they are.

If the message in Latin America right now is our doors are wide open, Trump is right, they will possibly keep coming in huge numbers, and eventually it might be too much at once for the country to handle economically. We need a better system, one that is compassionate and as fair as possible.

That whole mess about disease is such an overstatement. Smallpox? See this is what I complain about with the Democrats too. This idiot brings up smallpox and I don’t want to listen to one more thing he has to say, because it’s so idiotic and ignorant to mention smallpox. When democrats make stupid or exaggerated statements, the republicans are going to tune out faster too. I think everyone needs to stick to facts and not be hysterical in their delivery.

Demosthenes's avatar

Yes, afraid for them more accurately describes my feelings. I think this is not going to end well and people are going to get killed.

I believe that the caravan has the right to attempt legal entry into the country like anyone else. They do not have any right to come in illegally.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Suppose we have those 15,000 american troops guarding the border.

Are they really going to massacre a couple of thousand bedraggled refugees?

elbanditoroso's avatar

Yes, I saw that on the news. But imagine the blowback – the optics – if US Army troopers shoot at 10 year olds with rocks.

And how do the soldiers live with themselves after killing pregnant women? (Enforced abortions?)

Trump may want to have people shot and killed, but I doubt that it happens. Because the blowback would be massive and ugly.

tinyfaery's avatar

Like taking immigrant children away from their parents I guess.

Inspired_2write's avatar

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless,
tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

The Statue of Liberty-Ellis Island Foundation, Inc.

So this doesn’t mean much to the U.S. anymore?
The present population would not be here if a President like you have now was in Office.
In the distant past many were improvised,sick etc but with the right care and fresh air of Freedom they survived.
Give them a chance as one day it may be you who is in the same predicament .

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Rational and reasonable response, see…. you are one of the best here for bipartisan and common sense answers (imo.)

filmfann's avatar

Not. At. All.

JLeslie's avatar

@tinyfaery That throw rocks thing is infuriating to me. I really think Trump picked that because people associated stones with Muslim killings, like women being stoned to death. He is unbelievable.

Jeruba's avatar

I’m afraid of another Jallianwala Bagh massacre – armed troops firing into a crowd of unarmed civilians. I can imagine it happening here, and just being able to imagine it is alarming. Not long ago it would have been unthinkable. The consequences would be terrible. We haven’t even fully recovered from the shootings at Kent State in 1970.

I’m also afraid of what will happen if this administration violates the legal principle that prohibits using military troops for law enforcement. Is the president capable of ordering armed forces to fire on our own citizens? I think so. I think he’s capable of anything except normal human feeling.

Yellowdog's avatar

Stones never hurt anyone. And broken craniums and jawbones and shoulder blades will get you through the human barricades. U.S. troops fighting back is unfair since they have the advantage with bullets and the president;‘s okay for them to defend themselves.

Jeruba's avatar

> “Stones never hurt anyone.”

What?

chyna's avatar

@yellowdog. Are you being sarcastic? I don’t understand what you mean.

Yellowdog's avatar

Trump has said he has given the okay to consider rocks/stones as if they had rifles. I’m sure many of you disagree. But the caravan did quite a bit of damage to the Mexican army with mere rocks.

ragingloli's avatar

Nigerian forces have already performed a massacre against protesters, using the Orangutan’s drivel as justification.

Yellowdog's avatar

You don’t have a right to invade another country and confront its army—even with rocks as effective weapons. This is a hostile invasion of another country—not a caravan asking for help,

A second caravan is ready, and several more are planned. Overwhelming us and storming the border are not caravans of refugees. They are aggressors invading by force.

ragingloli's avatar

Amazing how easily and eagerly the weak minded swallow right wing propaganda.

Yellowdog's avatar

If you are flying the flag of your country, and burning the U.S. flag, you are not oppressed and abused by your country/government and seeking asylum in the U.S.

Fair enough?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Dead babies is GOOD right @Yellowdog ! Blood thirsty much? ? SMH

There is international law against soldiers being used for police action if it is not a war.

O OH he is going to declare martial law and the Constitution is invalid oh and he’ll tweet into law that he is President forever like Papa Doc in Haiti.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Tropical Dead babies and genocide are the platform of the Democrats. The people at the border could never top the number Dems have murdered. Fact.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@KNOWITALL The trump has basically said shoot’em.

DEAD Babies. It will be on all those left wing networks like FOX et al.

50 caliber through their heads. It won’t be pretty but Trump will get all wet in his drawers.

Caravanfan's avatar

@KNOWITALL As a Jew who lost family in the Holocaust I would love to hear how you think the Democrats are in favor of genocide, which is the elimination of a race of humanity. That is quite offensive to me and I am disappointed to see you write that.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@Caravanfan it is @KNOWITALL belief abortions are bad and anything else is fair game; firing squads on the Danube, gas chambers, slave labor with no food until the drop dead and killing babies from Honduras!

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Caravan Sorry but I am offended by supporting whoesale profiteering and murder of entire generations of humans. As a doctor you know the procedures used. If do no harm is your religion and chosen career, it’s your choice to disobey.

@Tropical You always say things I believe and are always wrong. Boring. No one wants to hurt refugees, not even Republicans. Just leave dead babies out of it dude, thats not cool.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Caravan Six million (generally agreed upon number) Jews and Fifty million abortions, since 1973. Very different, of course but all tragedies.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

And Trump had a couple of his girl friends get an abortion but hey he’s someone’s hero.

Yellowdog's avatar

The caravan is about 80% young men, and everyone is under age 35.

Women and children I’m sure have the needs they profess, but are being used as a human shield. The leftist groups that are organizing the caravans want it to appear we met these desperate women and babies with military force.

canidmajor's avatar

Well, then, @Yellowdog, this must make you happy if the slaughter of civilians by well-armed troops seems to be your thing.
Enjoy. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/02/world/africa/nigeria-trump-rocks.html

Yellowdog's avatar

I give you / them the benefit of the doubt. I DO believe that many in the caravan ARE seeking asylum.. The majority want a better life. Some burn the U.S. flag and spray Nazi symbols on it. Some may be terrorists. We don’t know. We DO know that some are self-confessed or known criminals, some who have been deported previously for heinous crimes in the U.S. Yeah, they could get back in the States even without hiding among asylum seekers because there is nothing to stop them.

But what would “make me happy” (your words) would be if the “caravan” never gets here at all, and no more are sent, by this invading force. Asylum seekers are welcome on their own or in better identifiable groups.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The troops will only be allowed to perform logistical tasks. They are forbidden by law to perform police duties at the behest of the President. The rhetoric of our asinine President is gearing up on the pretense that these pathetic souls are equivalent to the Hun or Vandal invasions of Rome. Trump is playing right into the hands of those “ leftist groups that are organizing the caravans”.

chyna's avatar

These people in the caravan are going days without food and water. They have no where to defacate or urinate in private, so they have to go on the side of the road. Women are having their periods with no sanitary supplies. Their clothes are filthy. They are walking about 25 miles a day. They are sick, their children are sick. I have no doubt some of the women are getting sexually abused. I don’t know why they would put themselves through this except for the fact that the life they are leaving is much worse.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And that’s the point Trump refuses to see. No proposal That doesn’t at least match the terrors at home is going to deter these people from leaving. Or maybe I’m wrong and the Donald does instinctively understand. That might explain the snatching and forced separation of kids from their parents. The world wide migration of populations seeking a better life is only going to intensify and will come to be the defining crisis in upcoming decades as global warming renders now habitable places unlivavble.

janbb's avatar

@Yellowdog If you are concerned about people who burn the flag and write Nazi slogans, what are you doing in the United States to stop that? The preponderance of people doing those things are white American males.

mazingerz88's avatar

Just can’t fathom how this caravan can be called an invasion by anybody. Except by idiots.

notnotnotnot's avatar

The people in the caravan have more of a right to US soil and citizenship than any current US citizen.

Everyone of us has contributed to the destruction of these countries. To even have this conversation at all is fucked up.

@Yellowdog – You are afraid because of a successful project designed to make you afraid. Please stop.

ragingloli's avatar

@notnotnotnot
What he should be afraid of, is the global reemergence of fascism, driven by the same people, with the same propaganda, with the same scapegoats, because apparently it does not even take a single century for humans, to forget the harshest lesson in history.
But no. He cheers it on.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@chyna So if strangers forcibly stormed your home and demanded care, what would you do? Remember they are not asking and threaten you with physical violence. And you have children in the house to protect, and there is a hospital two blocks away that is willing to help them, but they are not willing to go that extra two blocks.

Not a perfect analogy but see my point?

ragingloli's avatar

Nicely retarded analogy.
At best they are a starved out baby deer suddenly standing in your hallway, having pooped on the carpet and maybe broken a vase or two.
By no stretch of the imagination are they even close to being a threat to your so called country.

But let us have some fun, complete your little story:
...She says, while locked up in the moldy cellar are the few surviving previous owners of the house, with the rest of them being buried in the backyard in unmarked graves.
The dark skinned servant, his body covered in bruises and whip marks, just having finished cleaning up the damage from the successful previous conquest, complains that he is hungry and wants to have a part in household decisions, but the only response he gets from the current owner is a slap in the face by a silk-gloved, gold embroidered hand, followed by a stern “shut up, I am the victim here!”

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli all of us on the right are against fascism, that’s why we object so strongly to the progressivism/liberalism that is filling our nation. The tactics used to push that agenda are the same as used by the Nazis in Germany. We have learned from history.

ragingloli's avatar

Today’s fascists love stylising themselves as the victims.
Good job being such a great example.
You have learned fuck all.

seawulf575's avatar

Ahh…so THAT’S why you are always playing the victim? Got it. Blame Trump, Blame Repubs, Blame those mysterious “white racists”. Always someone else’s fault for the problems…yet I notice not a single detailed constructive suggestion for fixing things. Got a mirror? Use it.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
janbb's avatar

@seawulf575 I’ll give you a constructive suggestion. Let’s ban civilian sales of AR-15s. That will be a start.

seawulf575's avatar

@janbb and that is a fine suggestion. It was done civilly and opens the door for conversation. It doesn’t mean that I agree with that suggestion, but I am willing to have that conversation all day long. It doesn’t have much to do with this conversation, but hey…it wouldn’t be the first time a thread got off topic. What is it about the civilian AR-15 that makes you so uncomfortable?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Ragingloli You dont live in the US so I dont really give two shats what you think. I assure you many of us fully support defending our borders, even Democrats.

Caravanfan's avatar

@KNOWITALL Defending our borders from whom? Crying, hungry children?

JLeslie's avatar

So, is every country along the way of this trek a horrible country? When my friends sister got denied entry into the US she wound up going to a different Latin American country, I don’t remember which one. Her two sisters and mother live here! And, she was denied, and she had been accepted to a university here.

What some of you seem to not understand is many Latin Americans idealize America. They don’t completely understand the reality. I know for many America is much better than their current situations, but not necessarily as dire as some want to think.

I want to let people into the US, I hate the fear mongering done by our president, but democrats seem to be saying let everyone in who wants to come in. Is that what is being said? I was watching Stephanie Rhul last week and a Republican accused Democrats of that very thing, and Stephanie said, “no democrats aren’t saying that.” So, where are the democrats who are saying we want to let people in need in, but we do not mean let in everyone who wants to come at any time they want to come?

chyna's avatar

All democrats or all republicans or all blacks or all whites etc., do not think alike and why anyone would say that is beyond me.

JLeslie's avatar

@chyna Of course not all, he didn’t mean all, but the message being screamed across the media, the voices most heard, not the side conversations, (I’m including social media) seems to have no nuance. Stephanie made it sound like Democrats most definitely have nuance, but I don’t here it much either when the topic comes up. I don’t see it here on this thread very much for that matter.

Caravanfan's avatar

My views on immigration are in line with the conservative Cato Institute. I agree with everything that is wrtten here.

https://www.cato.org/research/immigration

JLeslie's avatar

^^Great link.

seawulf575's avatar

@Caravanfan did you happen to notice that isn’t illegal immigrants? That’s what is so funny about this whole debate. Conservatives say immigration is okay, but do it legally. It is the liberals that say it doesn’t matter, we should accept everyone regardless of how they come here. I have to ask: what is wrong with enforcing the laws of our land?

JLeslie's avatar

^^Trump is busy making laws to make it more difficult to come in legally. The whole legal illegal thing is a distraction. I don’t hear conservatives saying that immigrants have helped build America, and that our diversity is our strength. The overall message from the right is immigrants take our jobs, use our tax dollars, don’t speak English, and bring diseases. Think about it!

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 Your characterizations are out of tune with the facts regarding liberals and conservatives. It certainly is not MY position that “we should accept everyone regardless of how they come here”, and I defy you to prove otherwise. And as for the conservative position (at least as defined by the fool), legal immigration is NOT okay. All aspects of the process are therefore under attack. Trump’s approach to legal immigration boils down to challenging EVERY aspect of the process through extrajudicial (illegal) measures. To justify this obtuse approach, he is compelled to slander clearly desperate people as animals, rapists, criminals, anything but human beings. He openly insults your intelligence and mine through equating the immigration crisis as equivalent to rat control. He OPENLY LIES on every matter surrounding the subject and the lies themselves are transparent to any 8 year old. The lies, like the liar himself, insult the intelligence of all who hear them, and confirm him for the disgusting incompetent we have come to revile.

Caravanfan's avatar

@seawulf575 You are incorrect. They don’t make a distinction between illegal and legal because they believe (rightly so) that ALL immigration is good for our country. And yes, to be explicit, that means open borders.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Caravan As far as I’m concerned there are people who need our help and as long as we are able to help we should. I do take issue with setting fire, destroying fences and other acts of aggression, such as perpetrating violence on any LEO in the US or on the border.

You cant say they’re harmless women and children and watch the news, seeing the same people I saw. Mostly young angry boys and men.

kritiper's avatar

It doesn’t matter if and how many people get killed. There are over 7.5 billion of us so it’s not like we’re gonna run out any time soon… and we gotta control the multitudes somehow…

Yellowdog's avatar

When the dog bites. When the bee stings. When I’m feeling sad. I simply remember its Trump’s fault. These are the midterms, and that’s why Trump keeps making bad things happen all over the world. O shit, This is general not social. Guess I’ll get deleted, That’s Trump’s fault, too.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@Yellowdog YOU are RIGHT !

Way RIGHT

MrGrimm888's avatar

I wonder how opinions would differ, if the caravan was 4,000 polish people?

Caravanfan's avatar

The United States is a nation of immigrants. We are the shining city on the hill We are not small. Immigrants increase economic opportunity and have made the United States what it is. Whether the immigrants were brought here forcefully or come out of desperation, the immigrants make up the heart and soul of this country. “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore”. We have a moral and ethical obligation to take care of people who are less fortunate than us. We must be better than everybody else because we CAN be better than everybody else.

Without this we are just a nation of bigots and are diminished in the eyes of the world.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Are you going to go and kill 4 year olds ? ? ? @Yellowdog

Because the country their family was from is run by drug lords ? Just asking ! ! !

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I have a feeling there would still be people freaking out about them coming into our country in regard to jobs and taxes. Some of the other talk like disease and violence might not be there. If they started to be a huge minority group where there are 5 Polish TV stations and Lowe’s had bilingual signage, and you had to press 1 for English and 2 for Polish, and if they started entering the political arena with strong accents, and ideas that troubled some of the larger groups in America they would get some bigotry too.

It also would depend on how they would vote. The Catholics (Polish are generally Catholic) vote both Democrat and Republican. Much of Europe right now think Trump is destructive, so there is that. However, I don’t know how the Polish people would tend to vote.

It just happens that right now a lot of immigration is people with darker skin, but it doesn’t mean people would be fine with boatloads of people with whiter skin. It’s about the numbers mostly, and the perceived threat. Muslims because of 9/11 and other terrorism, and Latin Americans because they are becoming very visible in America now because of their huge numbers, and in the last 40 years they pass their language down and we continue to have them coming in. The Polish 100 years ago tended to not pass the language down to their children who were born here. Part of the reason they were called stupid was because they didn’t understand English. Also back then there were more reasons there were anti-Polish attitudes. I grew up with a plethora of Polish jokes being told.

Any time a minority group gets large enough and visible enough there are people in America who get nervous and intolerant. Don’t think these white people saying hateful things about Latin Americans aren’t capable of doing the same thing towards white Europeans. If the people coming are in large numbers, tend to be poor, and can be characterized as trying to change the country they will get some hate also.

seawulf575's avatar

@Caravanfan you might need to do a little more research. Nothing in the article you cited suggests they like open borders. This article specifically states legal immigrants.

https://www.cato.org/events/let-them-case-open-borders

But you are also wrong about another thing: The Cato institute is not conservative. They are Libertarian. Huge difference. So while Libertarians might believe in open borders, conservatives do not.

seawulf575's avatar

@kritiper and just think: if we get rid of a bunch of people we will help with Climate Change as well! They’ll not be adding to the CO2 in the atmosphere!

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 my thought to how the conversation would change if it was 4000 Polish people? The right would still be pushing for no illegal immigrants and the left would be silent since they don’t view people of white European descent to be worthy of their efforts…not a group they want to exploit.

seawulf575's avatar

@Caravanfan all that you say about the quotes from the Statue of Liberty is true. But here’s a concept for you: if we have no borders, we have no country. We are just open territory. And if we have no country, we stop being the shining city on the hill. We become just open area. And when we stop being a country with laws, we are nothing. If you notice, the right-wingers don’t say stop immigration. They say stop illegal immigration. They say to support and enforce our laws. Why is that wrong?

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 I just argued above that hateful and fearful people will still be hateful even if the immigrant group is Eastern European, but your statement that people would be silent to defend them I completely disagree with.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie so you think the left would be for allowing them in? I will argue with that based on Obama’s performance:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/11/obama-calls-for-more-syrian-muslim-refugees-deports-chaldean-christian-refugees-from-us/

That shows that Obama wasn’t about letting people in…just select people. The people he thought could best help him. And you know what? Trying to find these stories from any liberal news outlet is pretty much impossible. So the left is complicit with that thinking. So if it was 400 Polish caravaning to this country the left would not be arguing to let them in. They would either be arguing against them or would be totally quiet and would try to use the decision of the right against them at election time.

Caravanfan's avatar

Disagree. But nevertheless we should help the immigrants because it’s moral and right. It’s the Christian thing to do.

seawulf575's avatar

@Caravanfan and all that is asked is that they respect our country and follow our laws for entry. Why is that wrong?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump’s law – - – - right @seawulf575 ? ? Not USA law.
No aliens allowed (that’s Trump’s law) even if they’re asking for asylum from a drug cartel run country.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie you are still an idiot. Get a clue before you opine, you will look less radically foolish. It isn’t Trump’s law, it is federal law. You know…USA law? It’s called Title 8 of the Code of Federal Regulation. Maybe if you did a little research instead of believing what other liberals tell you, you would learn something. Like how you are duped on a regular basis.

Caravanfan's avatar

Seawulf. The moral obligation to help these people trumps any legal issues. (See what I did there?)

Caravanfan's avatar

And all immigration should be legal. Period.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 My story about my Venezuelan friend’s sister not being allowed into America happened when Obama was president.

Are you saying the majority of Jews aren’t white? The liberals come out for us.

Muslims in America are no different than other minority groups. How many Muslims do you know? I have to think it isn’t many. The majority of my Muslim friends aren’t very religious, and are very assimilated, and most Muslims in our country are leaving religious rule and oppression for our way of life.

The people who come to America want America. The idea that they want to change our country into something else is a huge overstatement. America has had bigotry against newcomers throughout our history, but the truth is we also have an incredible amount of experience with being a melting pot and accepting and including new people into the fabric of our country. It just depends on which thing you choose to focus on.

I’ll just add that I’ve been saying for ten years we need to do something to help Christian in parts of the Middle East who are having their lives threatened, so I’m not as put off as some by the statement of allowing Christians to come into our country in these circumstances, but I think the article you link is biased and I’m sure plenty of Muslims were detained just like the Christians in your link. It’s cherry picking. As far as Syria, I think we should have taken more people in regardless of religious affiliation.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@caravan You are correct to a degree, we are morally obligated to help. But as happened with Syrian refugees, our foremost obligation is to protect Americans already here. The multitude of children from all over the world who came here for a better life from their own hell.

Do you know the story of Noah’s Ark? Some correlation imo.

seawulf575's avatar

@Caravanfan then to mesh your ideas with my ideas, I suggest we start pushing congress to get off their duffs and start doing their jobs. Writing laws (or dissolving them) is Congress’ job. If you don’t like immigration laws, the way to change them is through Congress. If you want to ignore laws because you see it as moral, then you open a slippery slope. You leave the determination of what is moral and which laws should be followed up to the individual. Imagine if someone said they considered same-sex marriage to be immoral and should, therefore, be forbidden. Or what if they determined that it is immoral to have so many people polluting the world so murder is much more moral? Yes, these are extremes, but not really. What you are suggesting with immigration is that because YOU see illegal immigration as being moral, that is what should be. That thinking…allowing the individuals to decide what is law…is called chaos.

Caravanfan's avatar

I am not a moral relativist. There is a right and wrong. The right thing to do is to save desperate people who are fleeing death. Turning them away or shooting them as Trump seems to want to do is immoral.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Caravan Then tell the young violent men to stay back while we help the women and children. Easy enough.

Caravanfan's avatar

So you would separate the children from their Fathers. Nice.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 You and your hero’s (Trump) definition of illegal immigration is any Muslim countrty or brown skinned person.

You keep repeating yourself!

I hear you but that is what you do repeat.

kritiper's avatar

@seawulf575 That’s right! Let’s get to the heart of the problem.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Caravan If you choose to spin it that way, yes. I call it protecting the women and children as a priority. Have you not watched the live video at all?

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Ever been on a long road trip? Relatives, and couples fighting and not sleeping well.

If you walked thousands of miles through central America, you might not look your best either…

MrGrimm888's avatar

I would add, that I think the reason there are lots of young men is because it’s a hard journey. Naturally, the best physically fit would be the majority of people who complete the trip. I guarantee that these people left older friends and family, because they couldn’t endure the trip.

I would like every jelly here to think about something. Hypothetically.
You get news today, that you’re going to have to leave your home, and walk probably 3,000 miles through difficult terrain. You have to leave tomorrow. Would you be able to bring all of your loved ones? What about pets? Could you physically make such a journey? Would you look presentable when arriving at your destination, after months of hiking, little sleep, little to no supplies or food?

Caravanfan's avatar

I guess I live in a different world than many of you. I live in a world of hope, optimism, and opportunity for all, not fear. I believe in economic prosperity and growth. The economic engine for this is people so the more people the better. The fact that we are saving and improving lives is a bonus.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Correct. If they become legal, they will be contributing more. Taxes, genetic diversity, culture. I don’t see any cons…

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm It has nothing to do with appearance unless you count bandannas over their face, screaming about Trump and faces twisting in hate as they throw projectiles. I have seen first hand how many live down south of America, and I do want better for them, but not at the risk of escalating whats sure to be slaughter.

chyna's avatar

^Fake news… Probably Trump had it scripted and those are actors…~

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie you continue to show everyone how ignorant you are. I’m so glad you aren’t on my side…you’d definitely hurt the cause! Your statements are nothing but bogus lefty talking points that have no basis in fact. You are a sad case, my friend. Please stop embarrassing yourself.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie is the Gateway Pundit biased to the right? Absolutely. But as I mentioned, the only place you find articles that shine the negative on the Dems is on right leaning sites. Here’s another:

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/nov/17/us-unintentionally-discriminates-against-christian/

Now imagine…2098 Muslims and only 53 Christians allowed in from Syria by Obama. But help me out here…aren’t the Christians the truly desperate group over there? Aren’t they 2nd class citizens? Aren’t they murdered for no other reason than being Christian? And this isn’t a slam on Muslims, it is a slam on a liberal president that discriminated against Christians because that wasn’t a group he could use. And no one on the left raised a finger to stop him. The previous article was about Christians that tried coming across our southern border and asked for asylum. He deported them to certain death. And those on the left did absolutely nothing. So if it was 4000 Poles coming in a caravan, I’m pretty sure the left would either be dead silent or would rail against letting them in.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 I’m tired of your opinion is the only one AND YOU CONSIDER IT TRUTH and insulting me repeatedly!

You continue to show that some of your ancestors wore white robes and hats to hide identity while going to cross burnings and other social gathering !

I’m not an idiot as you keep saying and I’m definitely not ignorant; because I don’t believe your right wing blogs and web forums you keep copying from and denying even when called out on and shown.

SMH

Your views and opinion is the reason there were gas chambers and a war in Europe 75 years ago.

Caravanfan's avatar

Wow. Here we go. Godwin’s Law.

Caravanfan's avatar

You guys need to get your news from sources other than Fox News.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Caravan So not going to call out a fellow Dem for that? Typical.

Caravanfan's avatar

@KNOWITALL Call out a fellow Dem for what?

Caravanfan's avatar

@KNOWITALL Anyway, so now that you know that the bandanas are fake are you still opposed to letting these people in? That was your whole argument.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Caravan I hadnt seen either of those actually, it was video.

Hey if they want to stay calm and civil there shouldnt be a problem right?

I meant letting Tropical get away with using the Holocaust in her personal attack with zero factual evidence. Guess not, again typical.

Caravanfan's avatar

@KNOWITALL Actually, I did not let her get away with it. Look at my post following hers and look it up. I accept your apology.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Caravan Um ya man, real harsh lol.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@KNOWITALL . You are being willfully obtuse, and betraying many of your claimed beliefs…

Just saying….

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm Just playin wit ya! There is no defense for violently storming our borders, Grimm, none. If its not true, then great. If it is true, I would urge the peaceful immigrants to not partipate because I support my countrys LEO’s and the job they swore to do. Gods honest truth, I dont want anyone hurt.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Keep watching Faux Newz @KNOWITALL you’ll see more pictures of Pancho Villa firing on Arizona farmers, the bombing of the USS Maine in Havana harbor and Teddy Roosevelt wearing a MAGA hat charging up a hill !

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Tropical Just fyi, my grandfather helped liberate concentration camps. I found out when he was in his 80’s as he never discussed it. Your post to another vet in regards to the Holocaust being his or his familys fault is unforgiveable. Do not expect a discourse between you and I moving forward.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@KNOWITALL . The borders were long ago militarized. The exhausted, hungry, thirsty, unarmed, asylum seeking caravan will realistically pose ZERO threat, to a border that has received a very expensive (unnecessary) reinforcement of army, and local Trumper militia idiots (the ones most likely to do something stupid.)

Hundreds of thousands of people are stopped from crossing our borders illegally, each year. Trump has everyone in his base upset over 4,000 seeking legal asylum, and walking in a public caravan. It’s disgraceful how gullible Trumpers are.

No country on Earth could mount a successful invasion of American shores. We would decimate anyone who tried. Russia, China, nobody has a chance at a actual “boots on the ground invasion.” And these Trumpers are afraid of a high school football sized crowd, of beaten down people. Common sense, isn’t so “common.”

Tropical_Willie's avatar

WE’LL @KNOWITALL

You missed the fact that Fox News and other right wing media sources were using bogus photos including some from 2014 to claim the caravan is a hungry hoard to invade USA.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm I dont watch Fox news but the video I’ve seen shows a violent crowd. Perhaps yellow journalism and blatant lies should be a crime.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Think you are talking to TW.

I will concede that all of us have likely been a victim of some sort of false news, by one side or the other, at some point. Yes. YES! How I wish that actual fake news was illegal. Might be hard to enforce though. And eventually lead to no press at all.

Facebook is loosely responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths. People just spread whatever lies they are told. That leads to people getting hurt, or killed.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Tropical Did you apologize to seawulf yet?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

For what ? ? @KNOWITALL

He keeps calling me an idiot and ignorant because I don’t Kowtow to his mistaken belief the Trump is the answer. Maybe for a fascist following blog reader that keeps using the equivalent of “Share Posting” on Facebook without any critical thinking (or maybe he’s following Putin’s fake account on FB on purpose)
Or maybe he is a Mini-Me to Trump and belittles and bullies anyone the stands up with logic but . . . that is wasted on a bad mouthing forum bully.

He can’t bully me.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I’m tired of you insulting you too. I guess we agree on something. Please stop insulting yourself.

seawulf575's avatar

@Caravanfan you slam Fox news and cite Snopes?!? Please.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 You sir are a boring TROLL !

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