Does it bother you that people are using the generic “places of worship” when talking about the shooting at the synagogue?

I’ve never heard churches called a “black church” or a “white church”. We call them a Baptist or a Methodist, etc church. Who do you think is not at risk? A “white church” in Texas was attacked a few years ago.

Not really, for two reasons.

1) recent history: synagoge, Baptist church (several), Sikh temple, various mosques. The common factor isn’t the house of worship; rather it is the white male killer. No religion seems to be immune.

2) the religion of the dead doesn’t really matter. The fundamental issue that people were killed while exercising their rights to practice their religion. That’s universal.

@chyna – in the south there are frequent references to ‘black churches’ and ‘white churches’. Not a new thing at all.

“Places of worship” is just a sensible solution when the necessity arises to refer to these shootings collectively. I don’t see any problem with the practice.

^Agreed. I think it’s an attempt at being PC too.

Don’t forget that “synagogue” is hard to spell….

“Place of worship” ties them all together, regardless of race or religious affiliation. They are all doing the most peaceful, non threatening thing a band of humans can do…..and that happens.

The fundamental issue that people were killed while exercising their rights to practice their religion.

That makes it sound like the attack was against worship. He attacked Jews because he thinks they’re working towards “white genocide” and because he was filled with rage fueled by Republican hysterics over the caravan in Mexico (the synagogue hosts the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society).

He wrote that out in plain language in social media.

A church is a church is a church. The event would be just as traumatic in each. And/or anywhere.

@chyna The Texas church shooting was a guy angry with his MIL if I remember correctly, and his homicidal act happened to take place in a church, which unfortunately killed many other people in the church, but it was not an act against Christians.

When the Charleston shooting happened I immediately heard some politicians and people in the media, both mainstream and social, saying it was an attack on Christians. I remember immediately questioning out loud whether it was actually an attack on Christians, and I was a little bewildered that people jumped to that conclusion. 30 minutes later I heard it was a black church. It wasn’t an attack in Christians, it was an attack on African Americans. That shooting happened to happen when there was a lot of talk of Christians being oppressed, churches being closed, and Christians having justified fear for their lives in some countries. In other countries, not in America.

I actually have been saying for ten years that we need to help the Christians in some of these countries, but it just isn’t the case in America. I’m not saying it’s an impossibility for there to be a violent hate crime against Christians, I’m just saying it’s much much less probable than Jews, Muslims, LGBT, and blacks.

I know fear helps the politicians stay in power and the churches stay full, but it lacks truth that Christians run the same risk. They just don’t. I just don’t like glazing over a hate crime, and I don’t like that Christians are being made to feel afraid that their religion is under attack in America. I understand why some Christians feel the country is against them, and why they feel that people are trying to secularize the country, and trying to inhibit their ability to practice their religion; but actually, that’s basically not the case.

We all are worried that we are all vulnerable. Walking down the street, in a theatre, in a school, or in a church, but random mass shootings, because you are in the wrong place at the wrong time is different than being gunned down because of what you are or your skin color.

No

I mean, they should just call them sheep pens & be done with it.

Is anyone who finds this point too PC a minority? I probably wouldn’t be so bothered, except for what politicians and Fox News did initially in reaction to the Charleston shooting. I really found that reprehensible. It was a tipping point for me.

@MrGrimm888 Well, I suggest you switch to the word temple, way shorter than places of worship, much easier and quicker to write out. It’s not a spelling bee anyway.

@elbanditoroso What were the Baptist Church mass shootings? I’m unaware of those.

Texas: https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/texas-church-shooting

South Carolina (sorry, this was Episcopal) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charleston_church_shooting

@elbanditoroso Those weren’t attacks on Christian people. I discuss it above, and @Call_Me_Jay also has a response that explains well what I’m trying to get too.

I agree that mass shootings in places of worship are very disturbing, ALL places of worship, but when it happens because of the beliefs of that particular group it’s different than it being a convenient place for shooters to find a bunch of people together. I just think the distinction matters. I’m pretty sure even our government agrees. I remember reading the FBI deciding the TX church was not a hate crime, and my assumption is Charleston is recorded as a hate crime against African Americans.

When it happens because of bigotry I think we need to clear about it, when it’s about wanting all places of worship to be safe places, that’s I different conversation to me. It’s about the timing. The reports in recent weeks are in response to the synagogue shooting specifically.

I found this clip regarding the Charleston shooting. It’s not the video I was looking for, but it does basically cover what I’m talking about. I don’t love this video because it’s a little bit of comedy, and I don’t like the dig he makes at the Duggers’ but it it’s still worth watching.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-refusals-to-call-charleston-a-racial-attack-makes-wilmores-fcking-head-explode/amp/

I don’t think anyone finds this point “too PC.” I think we’re all in agreement that it’s no big deal.

^^Well, @MrGrimm888 used the phrase “too PC,” so that’s where I got it from, and @Call_Me_Jay saw the deal. So not EVERYONE agrees. And, again, is no one here a minority themselves?

I don’t feel like the mascot the Redskins is a big deal, because I only have positive feelings for Native Americans, and I know the fans love the team, and mean no harm, but a lot of people do take offense, and I do understand why.

I talked to my dad about this yesterday, and he said he read an article where the journalist was saying the same thing. I don’t have a link to it. He thought he read it in The Washington Post, but I couldn’t find it.

^If I’m not mistaken, Oklahoma means “red man.”

I often use terms like “place of worship.” It’s just me trying to be as inoffensive about something as I can. Especially when I know very little about the subject. I think most of my knowledge about Jewish culture comes from Mel Brooks movies, and entertainers.

No, @JLeslie. What he said was ”I think it’s an attempt at being PC too.”. “Too” mean “also,” or “as well.”

Also, he was agreeing with @stanleybmanly when he said it. @stanleybmanly said, ”“Places of worship” is just a sensible solution…...I don’t see any problem with the practice.”

I don’t see where @Call_Me_Jay got the “deal,” you refer to.

^^Jay wrote:

“_The fundamental issue that people were killed while exercising their rights to practice their religion._
That makes it sound like the attack was against worship. He attacked Jews because he thinks they’re working towards “white genocide” and because he was filled with rage fueled by Republican hysterics over the caravan in Mexico (the synagogue hosts the Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society).”

See how he’s saying that it’s worthwhile to point out specifically the attack was about killing Jews?

Regarding MrGrimm, so your saying he was saying Places if worship is the attempt at being PC? That may be what he meant, but I say that it may be true for some people who are using it, but after the Charleston shooting I think some people are very purposeful in their choice of words. I think probably most people who use place of worship have no mal intent and I’m not assuming most people are antisemitic, or anything like that, but the wording glosses over the specific intent of the shooter.

I’ll try with an analogy. Let’s say serial shootings are happening at female only gyms, and a woman is being killed every week or so. First it’s a Curves, then one by a different name. Then two more Curves. The news says, “men and women are being targeted in gyms,”

No they aren’t.

Jews were targeted in this shooting. African Americans were targeted in Charleston. Sikhs were targeted in that one other shooting. When I lived in TN they set fire to a Mosque. It’s not that people who worship are targeted, it’s not hate against worshiping in general that is under attack in these instances.

I think if transvestites people were being targeted in grocery stores jellies wouldn’t be ok with right wing Christians on Fox saying, “we aren’t even safe in our grocery stores.”

Well. I just don’t get it then. Why not be upset that we don’t refer to these places even more specifically? Like calling a place a “church,” when it’s a Southern Baptist Church…

^^I’m talking about attacks in particular, not just going to church on Sunday. If someone was specifically targeting Baptists, then we should say, another attack on Baptist parishioners, not, another attack on a church. Do you think Baptist’s aren’t going to feel singled out if a killer says, “I just hate the Baptist’s and want to remove them from the earth” or you believe they will simply feel like they are part of the greater Christian or religious cimmmnunuty?

Attacks on Jews is the common denominator, Jews in •their• places of worship, Jews in a nursing home, Jews just trying to have a nice Chanukah in their home, etc.

If someone was setting crosses on fire on the lawns of African Americans’ property do you think the news should report it as even our lawns aren’t safe? How about if a bunch of blondes on Fox News says it.

If someone was targeting people with Canadian license plates, is it just a sniper targeting people in their cars? Or, do you feel especially vulnerable when you cross the border driving your car?

I guess it doesn’t matter, to me. I am upset regardless of the “type” of victims in a mass casualty event.

I am upset regardless of the “type” of victims in a mass casualty event.

It isn’t an isolated event. The Pittsburgh and Charleston massacres don’t make generic “worshippers” frightened. The goal is terrifying (literally) a nation-wide community. That’s why “terrorism” is a word. Jews are rightly scared by Pittsburgh. African Americans are rightly scared by Charleston.

This is right-wing terrorism. Here are headlines from a quick google:
—Police across U.S. increase presence at synagogues following…
—Police increase patrols near Baltimore-area synagogues and…
—States go on alert while synagogues decide between guards and open doors
—Police presence ordered at DC synagogues following fatal shooting in…
—Police boost presence at Newburyport synagogue
—LA Police Step up Synagogue Patrol After Pittsburgh Shooting…

I live in Charleston, SC. The shooting definitely affected me. I parked in that same parking lot, for years, when working as a bouncer downtown. African Americans are actually not a minority in Charleston. Dylan Roof wasn’t from here. I think pretty much every group of people would have validity feeling vulnerable to a mass casualty attack, in this day and age.
My old security company got hired at multiple gay clubs, after the Orlando shooting. They wanted armed security. I don’t blame them. I saw my first “drag show” whilst working at one…

I hear you @MrGrimm88. What they label it is of the very least importance to me. The people and children who died, their families…that’s what I think about.

On 60 minutes they had a report on what an AR15 bullet does to soft tissues…..it liquefies it, basically. Shatters and explodes it beyond recognition. And I think about those babies at Sandy Hook being shot with that…..

Another mass killing. And I don’t give a rat’s ass where it happened. It happened. The unimaginable heartbreak is the same as it was a Sandy Hook, Columbine, at the places of worship, the theaters….the where is just not that important. How insane people are able to get their hands on guns is what is important. We need to stop that.

Yes, they’re the same for the immediate victims, but the synagogue and church massacres were not isolated incidents.

I don’t know why it’s so difficult to grasp or admit the killers were motivated by exposure to right-wing hate groups They explicitly wrote they were sending a message to Jews and immigrants and blacks everywhere.

Terrorism isn’t the same as one unhinged lunatic shooting up a crowd.

@Ditchess_III Yes, of course our heart breaks for anyone gunned down by these lunatics. I also understand why everyone feels a little more vulnerable and a little on edge, even when the group attacked isn’t their own group they identify with, because in the end everyone counts, and every act of crazy can mean the next crazy could be you or me (God forbid). I’m not saying that isn’t the case, just saying some mass shooting have randomness to then, and some are very specifically targeted.

We have got to find a way to recognize the kinds of people who would do such a thing….

^^I agree. I think there is probably more than one type. Look at the guy who gunned down people at the concert. If I remember correctly he didn’t really fit the typical profile. Maybe he did after they investigated more and I’m just not aware.

This last shooting I don’t have the details on. Do investigators know why that club was the target?

^Last I heard, about an hour ago on NPR, they were still.unsure of motive.

Honestly, it sounds like another guy that probably should not been able to legally purchase a firearm. Although that’s not a huge obstacle.

I heard the NPR story on Thousand Oaks. They guy was angry and lashing out already in high school. I’m guessing he picked a club because he can’t get a date.