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mazingerz88's avatar

Do you think it made Stephen Miller’s day the dying of another child in US detention?

Asked by mazingerz88 (25284points) December 25th, 2018 from iPhone

As asked.

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23 Answers

JLeslie's avatar

So upsetting. The article I read sounded like it was written by an idiot, so I’m left wondering what the child was sick with. The cause of death was said to be undetermined as of yet, but it sounded to me like maybe a side effect of the meds, or the hospital not evaluating the child’s symptoms well. I don’t see how they can blame this death on the trek. His poor father, I just can’t imagine. They didn’t mention the boy’s mother in the article I read.

kritiper's avatar

Oooo that’s so negative! Especially towards a child…

mazingerz88's avatar

@JLeslie I can’t decide which is more disturbing, the thought that demons like Miller in particular would relish the deaths and wish for more to render their perceived deterrent strategy effective or…that regular people who happens to be trump supporters are also thinking of the same!

stanleybmanly's avatar

Trump’s entire approach to immigration is one huge public relations catastrophe. No effort is spared to instigate the meanest and most vindictive measures possible, usually with a complete disregard for legality or probable effectiveness.

JLeslie's avatar

@mazingerz88 I don’t think people are wishing for deaths, but I guess there might be some people who see it as a tool to use when it does happen. If anything the left can use it to criticize the Trump administration more, get the left side even more worked up, and angry and afraid. All of which causes more people to demonstrate and vote.

I don’t know how long the detention center waited to get the child medical help. In the first case of a child dying it seemed like they tried to do something right away? I’m not sure if that’s correct.

Trump and his group seemed flippant when they blamed the parent for taking their kid on the trip, but the truth is it is very dangerous for children to go a long time without water. It’s much much more dangerous for children than adults. I don’t know what the situation was that they were leaving, so I’m not blaming the parent, but not all of these people are in immediate dire danger in their country. Still, I can’t fault anyone for wanting to come to America. I generally want to let people in. I’m grateful they let my grandfather and great grandparents in.

A child getting sick from a virus or bacterial infection is something that can happen safe at home, so I don’t think we can blame the travel, except to say whatever the kid caught he might not have caught if he had been home, but that’s a very random thing.

Edit: I just read this article that makes much more sense regarding the illness and treatment. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/an-8-year-old-migrant-has-died-in-us-custody-on-christmas-day/2018/12/25/b45d387a-0870-11e9-85b6-41c0fe0c5b8f_story.html If you remember in my first answer I was annoyed with the article I read yesterday.

stanleybmanly's avatar

What this is about is the deliberate effort to convert a failing system designed to facilitate the processing of people seeking citizenship to a punitive ordeal for anyone lacking the resources to buy their way in. The problem of course is that the sheer numbers overwhelm the system where the ability to detain and deport people has far outstripped the capacity of the legal due process guaranteed them by law. The fool, being the fool has decided to take it upon himself to arbitrarily eliminate those guarantees, and I hope he winds up prosecuted for his efforts.

JLeslie's avatar

^^You’re that Trump is turning it into a punitive system, but I don’t think that’s why the children died.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^The kid would be alive if he wasn’t taken away from his parents. Or if they didn’t and he died anyway then you can’t fault the government I think.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Was the kid taken away from his parents? I assumed they recently crossed over? As far as I know his father was with him. With him in detention and at the hospital. I might have assumed incorrectly. Did you see that information somewhere?

Plus, kids are not with their parents 100% of the time typically anyway. Certainly, once he was sick the parent should be able to be immediately by the child’s side. It sounds like the doctors misdiagnosed to me, and that possibly the fever was not controlled well. If it was strep the boy might have become very dehydrated too if they didn’t give the boy something to numb his throat, which they often don’t, which I will never understand, but I don’t know the details. It might not have been strep at all, it isn’t confirmed as far as I know. Also the question of the medicine making the boy sick to his stomach? Could be a law suit against the hospital in the end.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Article I read said father and son entered El Paso but had to be driven about 100 miles from there since the holding cells are full capacity.

JLeslie's avatar

I found this time line. It appears the boy and his father were always together, but it doesn’t exactly specify they were always together in the same room, but only saying they were in the same facility. Check it out. https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/US/year-boys-time-border-patrol-custody-death/story%3fid=60018255

I think the kid might have had the flu.

Do you have a link they were separated?

mazingerz88's avatar

If you can google the Washington Post’s headline about the story, they have some more details.

JLeslie's avatar

My only thing about this is if you know me well, you know I hate medical incompetence, and I don’t want that overlooked if that was part of what happened here, just because people hate Trump. They need to do an autopsy and investigate. I also care about the truth. Although, often the truth is never completely evident or never actually reported completely accurately.

JLeslie's avatar

The Washington Post says basically the same as what I linked. They certainly need to care for those who are ill differently, especially children. Children can take a grave turn for the worse suddenly. I can’t imagine for those parents.

The WP article pointed out the immigrants are being asked to sign documents in English. I hope there is a neutral person translating the document. It seems to me at the southern border we should have contracts in Spanish. We do in Florida for real estate, for taking a drivers license test, etc. There still might be people who are illiterate though, or feel no choice but to sign the documents.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Seems not all detention centers are the same. There’s a big one in El Paso capable of housing several thousands and men and women are housed in separate buildings. The ones with criminal records are in a different building secured by barbed wire fences.

Any detainee feeling sick can get medical treatment in a short amount of time, and they are encouraged to say so, because there is a treatment center in the same huge compound with doctors and nurses.

They get periodic check-ups as long as they’re in there, which could last between several weeks to years.

Can’t confirm but it was said for each detainee, the government pays that private run center for 240 dollars a day!

The center at full capacity can house 3K maybe even more. Now do the math.

It seems the center only employs the bare minimum amount of employees and guards to keep a stable environment. By stable it means, no one could make trouble and no one gets so sick they have to be brought to a hospital.

They pay detainees willing to do the cleaning and laundry a buck a day. They give them 3 meals a day.

If you own this enterprise, why would you want the crossings to stop?

JLeslie's avatar

@mazingerz88 Are you saying the detention centers are privately owned facilities?

I wonder if the immigrants are afraid to say they don’t feel well? Fear of not being allowed to enter? I would be afraid of that I think.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^I remember years ago Obama tried to cut some of the goverment funding for detention centers. I think the objective was in effect it will lessen the numbers of undocumented that for a variety of reasons got picked-up and thereby needed to be detained while they await to plead their case to a judge.

That takes months.

But if I recall correctly the availability of this huge money for funding these privately owned detention centers is contingent on how many beds are being filled. If not enough beds are being filled, less funding available.

Before Bush, there were no surprise checkpoints in the interior of the country snagging unsuspecting undocumenteds who maybe traveling. Before Bush these checkpoints can only set-up within 25 miles(?) of the border.

At Greyhound bus stations when you buy tickets they don’t tell you if their buses would pass through a federal checkpoint. The bus driver only announces it when you’re already on the way. So if you’re an undocumented with your headphones on and missed it, you will get picked-up at the checkpoint and brought to the nearest detention center if beds are available.

The detention center would love everyone to stay for as long as possible. If you’re raking in Uncle Sam’s cash of 700K a day…..that’s 700K…a….day!

A lot of people who operate these private detention centers are making tons upon tons of easy moolah.

Few years ago when demand for beds was probably less than today, the best detention centers knew that to avoid attention, they have to spend money in preventive medical care. To avoid disease spreading and of course any death. Do that and the money supply will be practically limitless.

The US Congress is making sure of that, not really trying to have a long term vision on how to potentially fix the problem at its source as to why people cross over in the first place.

To win elections and get to power the brilliant reality TV show host and his voters are now making it worse demonizing immigrants and concentrating on ineffective border fixes alone.

josie's avatar

Probably. I mean, doesn’t everybody gloat over the death of children?

mazingerz88's avatar

@JLeslie Seems CNN is reporting that ICE just dropped off 200 undocumenteds somewhere in El Paso. If that’s accurate my guess is detention centers there couldn’t take any more people.

But just dropping them off like that sounds weird. Need more details on this.

kritiper's avatar

The boy died of the flu, not any detention.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Actually, when you consider the plight and numbers of these people, the fact that only 2 kids have died in custody is rather miraculous.

JLeslie's avatar

I think there has been 7 flu deaths among children already this year in the US. My guess is the flu is ramping up early this year, but I haven’t looked at the statistics. I have a few friends, adults, who have already had the flu this year. One came down with it while traveling to see her son and grandchildren. She couldn’t see them the entire time of her vacation. That plane probably has a bunch of other people who are now sick and spreading it around.

We don’t know if the child could have been saved, but I’m glad to know they are looking at how the hospital handled it. They said the fever was 103, which isn’t unusually high for flu, unless that was the temperature even with a bunch of meds in him and actively trying to cool him off. My guess is his fever was spiking even higher.

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