Social Question

Unofficial_Member's avatar

Is it really necessary to stigmatize brazen people?

Asked by Unofficial_Member (5068points) 1 month ago

We’re talking about people who compliment you when you’re out there, they tend to give brazen compliments, something that some people regard as catcalling. It can happen to both gender but oftentimes I find that women tend to shy away from (or sometimes act aggressively toward) this kind of treatments. I, myself, find that getting such compliments enjoyable, and I even appreciate the brazen men who do that.

I’ve been in the same situation with my female relatives when they were being catcalled by some men, and in such situation they either ignored or moved away quickly from those men (and asked me to do the same). I was appalled that they acted like that when they usually appreciate compliments (and act humbly and thank the person who compliments them!). When I asked them why, some of them said something like “I don’t need compliment from good-for-nothing men” or something along the line, the others simply said “I’m not that cheap/those aren’t good men”. For all we know, not all brazen men are bad people, and a compliment is a compliment and it’s meant to be savored. Appreciating romantic-like advances won’t make you a cheap person, you can still appreciate and not accept, it’s the thought that counts, as the saying goes. I think they adopt too much unnecessary idea from their overprotective families.

When people say “heeey girl, nice ass” or something like “I got a big one”, why must they be treated with cold shoulder or unappreciative remark, especially when you’re single? I would laugh at something like that and appreciate the compliments. These people compliment your nice features and brave enough to tell you that. What’s not to like about assertive, brazen people? (At least they’re better than conventionally polite boring people that are shy or focus too much on what’s proper). I think many ‘catcallers’ get too much uncalled-for treatments from the society, especially from women. Stigma should not be allowed to justify our action toward these people. What do you think? Do you appreciate brazen compliments/remarks? Do you think people are being judgemental and over-cautious when they can simply laugh at it or at least try to appreciate the brazen compliments?

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100 Answers

mazingerz88's avatar

I think it’s a judgement call and I can hardly blame if a person, especially a female feels more wary than elated about being brazenly complimented in public. My thinking is that they just don’t want to encourage the behaviour.

chyna's avatar

Hey girl, nice ass. I got a big one for you is not a compliment. It is sexual harassment.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@chyna so you’re not happy when someone compliment your physical feature? And don’t we all like the idea of a ‘big one’? (you can at least funnily shoot back at them with your version of crude jokes).

notnotnotnot's avatar

@Unofficial_Member: “When people say “heeey girl, nice ass” or something like “I got a big one”, why must they be treated with cold shoulder or unappreciative remark”

Because stabbing the guy in the throat is illegal.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

^^ which one should I be not serious about? Certainly you don’t think of killing people so easily.

notnotnotnot's avatar

Do you not understand what sexual harassment is? Do you understand power dynamics and how abusive such things can be?

Let’s try this: please describe a particular scenario in which “heeey girl, nice ass” or “I got a big one” is not sexual harassment. Describe the power dynamics involved between the man/men and the woman, and what possible reaction the woman might have.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

^^ can you at least define what you mean by “power dynamics”?

notnotnotnot's avatar

^^
Is there a physical and or material balance of power? In other words, if this takes place on the street, is there a balance of physical power? Is there any reason for a woman to feel threatened? If in the workplace, is there a power balance in your scenario? Is this a male boss talking to a female worker? etc…

canidmajor's avatar

I’ve had that stuff said to me in a workplace. Is that OK? I’ve had that stuff said to me in a dim parking lot while walking to my car. Is that OK? I had that stuff said to me right before a guy kicked in my car window as I was trying to drive away, because I ignored him. Is that OK?

I don’t know, in person, even one woman who likes to be cat-called. It’s threatening. Maybe where you are, it’s all really cute and fuzzy. It’s not cute and fuzzy here. It’s, at best intrusive and demeaning, at worst threatening and the precursor to an attack.

That is why it’s necessary to stigmatize “brazen” (we define that word a bit differently) people.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Is it right or proper to smack a label like “brazen’ on people?

Wouldn’t a term like ‘outspoken’ or ‘gregarious’ have been less brazen?

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@notnotnotnot Let’s say that the balance of power is equal here. In a sense that the one who compliment you can’t actually physically harm you in anyway. You’re free to reciprocate the way you want without any consequence. I understand sexual harassment but I don’t think that we should group every compliment as sexual harassment just because some people feel insecure about it, or just because the compliment involve the idea of body part (since when we can’t compliment other’s body parts?).

@canidmajor I agree with the situational scenario you provided there. They make sense. However, we’re talking about general situation where you’re in a safe street/environment and someone just genuinely compliment your physical feature.
.
.
.

I do realize, though, that this situation will have to depend on the person who compliment us too, don’t you all agree? If the person is a hot man (we really like him!) said such a thing to us we’ll fall head over heels for him, contradictly, when the person is not… y’know, or even look threatening it’s seem justifying to stigmatize the person. I guess this situation will have to depend on the person too but that doesn’t excuse our judgemental behavior.

@elbanditoroso English is not my first language so please excuse the word if you find it unfitting. I tried to find the right one, though.

chyna's avatar

No matter how “hot” the guy looks, saying the things about body parts is not a compliment. It is derogatory and harassment. Just because a guy is attractive does not mean he won’t attack, rape or brutalize another person.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

^^ Please enlighten me, how could saying good/positive things about your body parts could mean as derogatory/harassment? Has it escaped our mind that it’s possible for other people to genuinely appreciating our physical feature and not be afraid to tell us about it?

notnotnotnot's avatar

@Unofficial_Member: “Let’s say that the balance of power is equal here. In a sense that the one who compliment you can’t actually physically harm you in anyway. You’re free to reciprocate the way you want without any consequence.”

You still haven’t specifically outlined your hypothetical scenario. You say you understand sexual harassment, yet you are attempting to make a case for some mythical scenario in which sexual harassment is really harmless. Be specific. I suspect you’ll have a very difficult time. This should tell you something. Sexual harassment = sexual harassment.

notnotnotnot's avatar

women: Complimenting us on our bodies is harmful to us. Please stop.

Unofficial_Member: No, it is not harmful to you. In fact, it’s harmful to me that I can’t sexually harass you.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

^^ I understand sexual harassment but I don’t group every single brazen compliments as sexual harassment. Compliment = compliment, too. It’s not a must to think negatively about compliments.

chyna's avatar

Compliment: You have pretty eyes, pretty hair. Said in a genuine manner.
Harassing: Nice ass lady! Screamed from across the street.

ucme's avatar

I had a couple of girls, no, let’s rephrase that…women compliment me on my “nice arse” (yes I wear skinny jeans :D) just last week, this was while I was out walking my dog Buddy.
I turned, looked at them & just laughed, as they did & we all went on our merry way.
It’s clearly a different beast when the other way around though, it’s easily appreciated that women can feel threatened & intimidated by such actions however harmlessly intentioned.
I’m of the opinion that men who feel the need to act like this are mostly passive aggressive idiots with teeny tiny cock stalks, think your sexual thoughts just don’t vocalise them retard.

canidmajor's avatar

Really, @Unofficial_Member, I’m now thinking that you keep arguing for its own sake, and really, you can’t be this clueless.
A random “compliments” to a woman on the street is simply not acceptable. The street environment is NOT safe (where do you live???). A sexually focused remark to a stranger is NOT okay.

Giving up, this is beyond silly.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@chyna Then how about “Nice ass, Lady,” said with a genuine, friendly, funny expression?

@canidmajor Are you now saying that women can’t/shouldn’t accept compliments on street/safe environment? I’m saying that not all men are bad men, and not every single man who compliment you is a bad man, he could be, but not necessarily. I live in Indonesia, the guys I don’t know around me like to crack crude jokes like this in a very friendly manner and laugh loudly about it (and funnily, I appreciate it). They don’t look too shabby too, to be honest. And I wasn’t raped or violated when I ‘recomplimented’ them and laughed along.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@notnotnotnot Stop making me blushing. I understand the reason you’ll do that because I have ‘nice equipments’. I appreciate your desire, however, I’ll pass. Tehehe.

chyna's avatar

Flame bait. I’m out.

rockfan's avatar

⬆️ What everyone else said above me

janbb's avatar

You are either very young, very naive or just being provocative.

Our culture has evolved to the point where it is not considered ok for random men on the street to make remarks to women they don’t know about their appearance. Maybe in your culture it’s still a thing but here in America, most of us don’t care for being objectified.

rebbel's avatar

How about this: you are a man, and you walk in the city center, right around where the bars and clubs are.
You see a group of men coming in your opposite direction.
They start calling you hottie, and tell you you have a nice ass in that jeans, and also that they have “big ones”.
Surely you are going to take that as compliments?
Or would you perhaps wish you could vanish in to thin air?

Unofficial_Member's avatar

^^ In that situation I’ll laugh it out. “Nice jokes, bruh”. If you don’t want to think of it as a compliment you can always think of it as a joke. A good joke and laughter will create healthy life. Instead of thinking negatively about other people’s advances toward you. I am disappionted that there aren’t that many positive thinking people in this site.

notnotnotnot's avatar

┌∩┐(◣ _◢)┌∩┐

rebbel's avatar

You are a cool dude.
And funny.

janbb's avatar

@rebbel But do you like my tail feathers?

Inspired_2write's avatar

https://psychcentral.com/blog/5-warning-signs-youare-being-objectified/
Read the above link if you don’t understand what objectifying means?
Obviously a women who accepts this demeaning approach that some immature men or boys, do is setting herself and others up for pain. Men who objectify only want a particular need fulfilled and once its fulfilled, they leave onto the next need to fulfill.
In other words a throwaway..that is what you are encouraging.
Understand human behavior and the “why” of it and it may make you realize how you could be setting yourself up for “fling” and that’s all…an object to be thrown away when used.
You are more than that, and don’t settle for less. Treat yourself with respect and expect others to as well, but if not then you are settling for the bottom of the barrel.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I have a highly developed sense of humor and I enjoy bantering with all sorts of folks, sometimes off color at times, as most of my friends have always been men.

Now if someone hollars at me, I don’t really think much of it and smile and go on.

If they come back by and do it again, I’m arming myself and getting ready to lay them out on the ground.

Maybe you feel safer in your area, or you don’t have heroin or meth, or crazy people, I don’t know. But even in my area, some of those people (men or women) are looking for attention, or looking for a victim. If you cat call them back, they may think you are welcoming more of that attention and take it further.

When I walk my dogs I have my phone and a weapon, and I live in a small town in rural Missouri. I do not play with strangers when it comes to my safety.

And if you want some real stories of what happens to nice, innocent people who think everyone else is nice, too, you just let me know.

Kardamom's avatar

There is no such thing as a brazen “compliment”. Good lord!

Most people, do not like having strangers, or people they know, making comments, especially lust fueled comments at them. It’s gross and it’s scary.

I’ve never been raped, but I know several people who have been raped. These kinds of statements (which are not compliments) often precede rape. People, mostly men, who engage in this type of controlling, power play behavior, are selfish pricks!!! And they’re naive fools, if they don’t understand how verbal assaults like these can upset and traumatize people.

The 1950’s ended a long time ago. This type of behavior is no longer socially acceptable, and should be called out for the boorishness that it is.

These days, only clods and sociopaths, engage in these types of ugly “backhanded compliments”.

If you are thinking about doing this, think again, and again, and educate yourself, then keep your mouth shut, and avoid the temptation to be an asshole in public.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Let’s start with the definition of Brazen”: _bold and without shame.”
Without shame. They don’t give a shit if “Hey girl, nice ass!” is embarrassing to the recipient or makes her uncomfortable, or possibly even scares her. People who don’t give a shit should be stigmatized, as they are in all other areas.

I hope everyone reads your post in it’s entirety @Kardamom

gorillapaws's avatar

A ton of great answers here. I just wanted to echo the point that unsolicited lustful compliments are inappropriate and should receive scorn and derision, just as using a racial slur on the subway.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thank you @gorillapaws. Thank you very much. And really, most of the men are like you IRL. They’re decent. But the 1 or 2 in every crowd that isn’t really looms large in a woman’s memory.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

This question actually work in the reverse way too but we haven’t heard from a lot of men here. Boys, what would you think when the ladies are brazen enough to compliment your ‘assets’?

Demosthenes's avatar

There’s nothing inherently wrong with responding the way you would, if that is your choice, but you have to understand that that’s unusual and there are many good reasons to dislike those comments and see them as harassing/creepy/completely inappropriate. Respond however you want, but know that most people will not do the same.

Now I was once whistled at by a gay guy in a city. I liked that. I can deal with some attention as long as it doesn’t go too far. But if it had been much more than that, I probably wouldn’t’ve liked it, because commenting on someone else sexually in public, especially given the potential for assault, is not welcome to most people. It’s aggressive behavior and who wants that? I think you can at least understand why it’s unwanted.

notnotnotnot's avatar

@Unofficial_Member: “This question actually work in the reverse way too but we haven’t heard from a lot of men here.”

ahem.

Look, you’ve made it clear that you are incapable of understanding that sexually harassing someone is wrong. With that in mind, maybe just work on not doing it, and being ok with that.

Sexual harassment is bad enough. But to be told that it’s harmful yet you continue to do it adds another layer of assault. You’re no longer merely ignorant – you’re actively engaging in behavior which you have been told is harmful…by those who are the potential victims of your actions.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I think it is important for men to understand most of us DO NOT see vulgar comments, or unwanted physical attention as a compliment, at all, and that’s why I’m all for the #metoo movement. I think it as some men confused because they didn’t really understand. I guess they think they’d like it, so we must like it too.
A friend of my boyfriend’s…nice guy otherwise….pinched my butt in passing when we were in a crowded bar. I reached back, grabbed his finger and twisted the shit out of it. I looked back at him angrily and he looked genuinely shocked and confused. And he was a nice guy.

janbb's avatar

@notnotnotnot I think UM is a woman and is saying she enjoys the brazen attention, not that she is committing the act.

notnotnotnot's avatar

@janbb -Thanks. I was confused.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@notnotnotnot In case you don’t know, I do not partake in complimenting people like that. On the contrary, I am on the receiving end of such compliments, and I don’t think too negatively about it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Unofficial_Member Have you been to America? We have some pretty aggressive personalities here.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

Never, @KNOWITALL . I don’t know that people could be so aggressive there.

Mariah's avatar

Hey you’re allowed to enjoy catcalls if that’s what you feel. But you can’t tell other women that they’re not allowed to feel threatened by them if that’s how they feel.

Men have no way of knowing which women are going to like it and which are going to hate it. I would hazard a guess that it’s the vast majority of women who hate it. So they shouldn’t do it unless they know their audience.

This should be obvious.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@Mariah Fair enough. I have no intention to force people to act in a certain way. It’s the justification of treatment that many people give the complimentors that I question. Maybe, it’s just me, maybe my sense of danger is different, perhaps my sense of humour is too much, and so on.

Mariah's avatar

Yup, who knows why you like it while most women don’t. The point is that most of us don’t and you don’t get to tell us that our feelings are wrong.

Dutchess_III's avatar

GA @Mariah. Unfortunately, the kind of men would would engage in such behavior probably don’t give a reat’s ass whether a woman likes it or not. It makes them feel macho, and it makes their friend’s giggle. That’s all that counts.

Mariah's avatar

Yeah I can’t imagine that any men are actually unaware that most women hate being catcalled. So the only explanation is that they are just choosing to ignore our feelings because it makes them feel good. Or playing a numbers game – if I catcall enough women, eventually I’ll find one who likes it, and who knows, maybe she’ll flirt back. And that outcome is worth scaring the shit out of who knows how many other women in the process.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I would like to think that they know how much we hate it, but I wonder. Just look at the passionate push back against trying to make them aware.
“We just can’t be men any more!”
“It’s a compliment! What is your problem?”

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Unofficial_Member Read this story. I live in an area where people still don’t lock their doors all the time. We know everyone in our town and their families, so that leads us to be maybe a little more trusting than we should be.

This young woman got her bumper tapped from behind and believed the man had brake failure, so she tried to help him. That got her killed in a heinous way. You just have to be really careful who you encourage and who you allow to get in your personal space. They could be really nice and mean nothing wrong, but they may just kill you instead. This is our reality now.

https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/crime/2015/07/14/killer-strafford-year-old-executed/30167705/

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s always been our reality @KNOWITALL.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

I see, @KNOWITALL . In my environment if people don’t lock their houses at night they’ll eventually invite burglars in to their house. Even if you lock the doors the burglars can also enter from the windows so it’s pretty common here to see windows reinforced with steel bars and double layered (that goes for the doors too).

I read the story, and I have to admit that such crime (or even worse) also happen in my country. People killed another people for various reasons, I see that all in newspapers and on TV regularly. If that passes as aggressive behavior then perhaps my country is full of people as aggressive as one can find in America (even though I’m convinced that the Police there is way better than here).

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Unofficial_Member Then you be careful. Sometimes the nicer you are to people (men in particular), they tend to push it until you can’t be nice anymore, and that excites them. Just make sure you are safe and not alone if you encourage that aggressive (brazen) behavior so they don’t follow you home or something creepy. That’s all we want, is you to be safe. :)

Unofficial_Member's avatar

Thank you, @KNOWITALL . I will always remember your words of advice. I never do more than laugh and joke back (if I can think of one). Never in my life will I allow inappropriate physical interaction with them.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Addressing your comment here. No I don’t care at all for the idea of a “big one.” That is a man’s hang up. I don’t care because that doesn’t mean a single thing in terms of satisfaction for me.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

^^ Even so, that will still make a good revenge joke toward men, y’know. I remember one of our customers said “I got the one down there that you like, babe” to our female employee amidst their conversation and she said (while holding a tool for sale) “is your thing as big as this one, sir? (the tool)” she said that twice, and then followed up with “Don’t talk to me if your thing isn’t this big”. The man just fell silent after that. Both me and her laughed after he left the store (I was trying so hard not to laugh when she said that). I wonder how she knows that men are quite sensitive when someone make a joke about their ‘asset’.

rebbel's avatar

Classy.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Unofficial That is a dangerous game to play. Your whole attitude says you dont think anyone can hurt you, and that is not true. Please be careful.

Kardamom's avatar

@ Unofficial Member. These men are suggesting that it’s completely OK for them to suggest that any female they desire, whether it is you, or your mother, or your grandmother, or your sister, or your own child is acceptable for them to “fuck”.

Have you, or anyone you have ever known, ever been raped? I have. This kind of sick “catcalling” and pointing out of women’s body parts is exactly the type of conversation that almost always precedes rape.

This kind of sick, disrespectful bullshit needs to be called out for what it is. If you are “into” this kind of talk, there are adult websites dedicated to people who enjoy being dominated, and disrespected. Please go there and don’t try to suggest that that type of behavior is normal, or acceptable anymore. It isn’t.

Also, please don’t try to suggest that because you are from another country, that this kind of behavior is acceptable. It isn’t, and should be called out for the misogynistic attitide that it perpetuates.

Educate yourself.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@Kardamom Are you aware that I wasn’t the one who catcall people? (I never do that in my life! I am the reciprocator type). If anyone needs to stop it’s the catcaller. I don’t think they hurt my feeling. I think it’s either a pure compliment based on admiration (of course it’s possible to admire other’s body part) or a crude joke (I particularly like dirty jokes), none of which I find to be harmful. It doesn’t make me feel dominated or disrespected just because someone said that to me. I stand my ground. I didn’t give myself up to the catcallers just because of their silly comments.

I am not trying to use my country as an excuse. I have no problem if you want to go against this kind of thing but don’t blame me (and others in my shoes) when we fight the catcallers back with our own version of crude jokes (they started it first, after all!).

Unofficial_Member's avatar

I must admit, though, that I am embarrassed and couldn’t bring myself to shoot back at the catcallers when my family members are around as they think that responding to these kind of people as undignified behavior. I disagree with such infallible, one-sided view, of course. I am open minded and don’t think badly of other people just because of silly thing like this.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What we’re saying is that “joking back” with them tells them what they are doing is acceptable, and it is NOT. It isn’t “silly,” either. Not from where we women sit.

And yes. It is undignified and trashy behavior whether it’s them cat calling you, or you playing along.

Kardamom's avatar

@Unofficial Member. Open minded??? Seriously? You think that speaking at, and to, women in this disrespectful manner is OK? That kind of speech is rape culture! Are you perfectly OK with men raping women?

You still haven’t given any thought to whether you would think it was funny/cute/sexy to have men yell out these things to your mother or grandmother or sister or daughter, or someone else’s family member, or to a member of the clergy, or a doctor or a nurse, or a school teacher or a woman who has been raped, or any of the women here on Fluther.

Like I said, you seem to be turned on by this kind of disrespectful language and treatment of women. They have adult websites for people who enjoy engaging in these kinds of behavior, but in a civilized society, (which we are still trying desperately to achieve) both men and women don’t put up with this kind of crap any more.

I really don’t know if you are trying to troll us at this time, or if you are simply too immature to understand the ramifications of encouraging, or being apologetic, for this type of behavior.

Many of us have spent our entire lives trying to fight against this type of bullshit and abuse. Some people on this site have actually been raped. The type of language you are defending, and condoning, opens the door to the acceptibility of rape, and boundary crossing.

By you saying that you enjoy this kind of “banter”, and by encouraging men to speak to women like this, you are partly responsible for why men continue to harrass women! Because people like you tell them it’s OK, so they think it’s OK to be a dick towards ANY woman they feel like harrassing.

Maybe if you learned more about what it is like to be the victim of a sexual assault, you might get why we are so angry about this kind of “so called cutesy innocent catcalling”. It’s neither innocent nor cute.

Here is some information about what really happens to women.

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20180926-myths-about-sexual-assault-and-rape-debunked

And if you still can’t see the problem, read this short article on why catcalling isn’t acceptable:

http://theodysseyonline.com/lim-college/catcalling-isnt-compliment/349632

Or this, which actually has video footage of a woman being repeatedly harrassed:

https://www.babble.com/beauty/catcalling-isnt-about-complimenting-a-womans-beauty/

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have to ask, @Unofficial_Member…are you open to actually having a sexual encounter with men who yell trash at you? If so is that why you don’t feel threatened?

Aethelwine's avatar

I’ve been lurking. I think the question to ask @Unofficial_Member is if she’s ever been treated with respect from the men in her life. It doesn’t sound like she has.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@Kardamom I do NOT support this kind of behavior. I can only control my own behavior, I can’t control catcallers’ behavior (stop asking me ridiculous thing like stopping them to say anything you dislike, it’s beyond my authority). What if I do not feel offended when someone said that to me? That’s how I personally feel. What if I don’t feel like to antagonize them? You’re blaming the wrong person. I feel like you have the desire to control how one must react in this situation.

As for how I feel when such things are said to my family members, I don’t know what to say, I can only speak for myself. I have no way to pinpoint whether the compliment is genuine, a crude joke, or a veiled attempt to rape someone. I don’t want to judge people like that. I believe in fairness and everyone deserve the benefit of doubt. Your links are from people who clearly dislike such kind of behavior as they have bad experience with it, I don’t blame them, but must I also be forced to dislike the same thing? I don’t want to fake my feeling just to follow what others think as appropriate.

I am not necessarily turned on by such kind of behavior (depends on the man, too), most of the time my inner sense of humor just couldn’t help itself, other times I really look it as pure compliment (blame me, but I really didn’t feel any malice in their voices).

I am not responsible for acting the way I feel like it. I didn’t do anything illegal. You make it sounds like people who disagree with you are bad people or the same as the perpetrators.

@Dutchess_III I don’t feel what they said to me as trash. Cheesy, yes, but not necessarily trash. I don’t expect anything sexual with them, I think of it more like a joke than actually wanting to have sex with them. A good laughter couldn’t kill anybody, right? If what they said is realistic, such as “Your ass is so sexy”, of course I took it as a compliment since I think my ass is sexy (not to toot my own horn but it’s true). Those who said that have warm smiles and very friendly dispositions. They didn’t yell at me like they’re hungry for some human meat. You might not think what they said as dignified but at least they said it an acceptable tone and with honesty. I can’t picture myself being rude to them.

@Aethelwine We simply have different perspective about how we categorize something as respect/disrespect.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I didn’t say you “expect” anything sexual with them. I said are you pretty much open to it if they want to take it further?

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@Dutchess_III Further as in pyhsical? Of course not! Further as in another serving of embarrassing jokes? Yes. I don’t always deliver a revenge joke to them, in many situation when they compliment me I simply smile and say “thank you”, without making any further contact with them (I am still flattered, however).

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t understand how you could be flattered when they’re hollering the exact same things at the next girl that comes into view.
We know a genuine, appreciative compliment when we hear one, and “I wanna fuck you all over,” is not one of them.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Unofficial Perhaps we are misunderstanding you. When men catcall, we often feel it IS disrespectful, not flattering. If you feel its flattering, that is unusual to some of us.

You are entitled to your opinion, of course! To a western woman it is hard to understand what we call objectifying and harassment.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

I am not that competitive, @Dutchess_III . From my experience they tend focus on one or two person they like instead of hollering to many people. I don’t really care about them or whoever they lavish their attention on (why should I? Just because they compliment me doesn’t mean they’re my buddies).

If a guy said “I wanna fuck you all over” to me I will blush and appreciate it. It may sounds very rude to many people but let’s calm down and think about it for a second. Why did he want to fuck you? Because he thinks you’re attractive (Yay! Someone appreciate your beauty, so much that he could hardly contain himself, and brazen enough to tell you in such fashion), he certainly wouldn’t fuck someone that he doesn’t think as attractive. You can always enjoy the compliment and reject the person.

I understand that, @KNOWITALL . I am not forcing people to feel the same as I do. I merely saying how I feel, perhaps a different angle to look at the situation even though it’s already clear that many people despise that kind of thing.

rebbel's avatar

And I thought that romance was dead.

snowberry's avatar

It’s a compliment only In YOUR ears. The guy saying it certainly isn’t intending a complement. He’s saying it because he knows it’s a demeaning thing to say, and he feel so low about himself that he tries to put others down to make himself feel better. It’s a power play, just like rape.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

@Unofficial_Member…“he wants to to have sex with you because he finds you attractive.”
Or, as @Ragingloli once said, you have a hole somewhere that he can stick his dick into.
Or, as @Coloma once said, you’re just someone to masturbate in.
How could that possibly make you feel special?

No. Not all men are like that. But the guys that cat call and make lewd gestures are.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Kardamom's avatar

You said: “
If a guy said “I wanna fuck you all over” to me I will blush and appreciate it. It may sounds very rude to many people but let’s calm down and think about it for a second. Why did he want to fuck you? Because he thinks you’re attractive (Yay! Someone appreciate your beauty, so much that he could hardly contain himself, and brazen enough to tell you in such fashion), he certainly wouldn’t fuck someone that he doesn’t think as attractive. You can always enjoy the compliment and reject the person.”

Wow! Just wow! Maybe we should teach our daughters that having a strange man yell that that they want to fuck them, that they should take them up on it, because it’s a compliment right?

Let’s tell all of our daughters, and mothers, and grandmothers, and friends, especially the rape victims, that they should be flattered when some man yells that they want to fuck them, and that they should take them up in it, because it would be impolite not to, right?

Whatddya think everybody?

Unofficial_Member's avatar

^^ I can only speak for myself. It’s not my business whether or not you include daughters, grandma, etc, they have their own feeling, I have mine. I have a right for my personal feeling and I don’t think it’s wrong to think differently. Go ahead and rally people to boycott those who appreciate compliment like this, that won’t change the honest feeling of people who have different perspective. I have no idea why you insist on controlling other people’s personal feeling. I refuse to fake my feelings to support your hateful idea towards people who give brazen compliments.

janbb's avatar

Does anyone really feel this discussion has any purpose any more? I’m amazed at how thoroughly you all continue to beat a dead horse.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Unofficial You are welcome to your opinions. How old are you, if you dont mind.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

Please listen to @janbb . The discussion is already over.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

I am in my twenties, @KNOWITALL .

Dutchess_III's avatar

^^Old enough to know that some random guy wanting to have sex with you isn’t a compliment. Many guys, especially ones who cat call, will have sex with a door if they get horny enough. I knew this by the age of 18.

Kardamom's avatar

@Unofficial Member, have you ever been raped?

Do you know anyone who has ever been raped?

Unofficial_Member's avatar

^^ Never. Not in person, but I have seen many stories like that in the internet.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Unofficial When we are young, we can feel very strong and immune from harm. Now I get you. Just take in the info and think about it. No one here wants you to get hurt, thats all it is. Peace.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Rape aside, have you ever even felt threatened by a man’s behavior, or the behavior of a group of men?

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@KNOWITALL Thank you. I am being careful myself. I like compliments and special attention from men but I’m not someone who can be cajoled to sleep with them.

@Dutchess_III Of course. A man holding a knife and threaten to kill you, of course. But definitely not a man that act nice and spout beautiful words to you.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Unofficial Did you grow up with your father living in your home?

(@All Please be patient, lets see WHY she thinks this way.)

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@KNOWITALL Yes. I don’t think I have a bad background or childhood to be able to think the way I am now. I have a feeling that many people here think I walk in the wrong path. Well, I am not! We simply walk different path, each of our path can be correct. Regardless, I have no desire to continue this discussion about myself anymore as what I said seem to be rebutted with judgemental/over-worrying arguments. I am not risking myself to be abused by men, I simply enjoy the attention they give me, and I don’t think that is wrong.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Apparently @Unofficial_Member feels capable of fending off any kind of unwanted physical assault that might accompany the “compliments,” so doesn’t feel threatened.

gorillapaws's avatar

I actually agree with @Unofficial_Member in that if she enjoys that kind of attention, it’s none of our business to judge her for that. Having said that, I still strongly believe that unsolicited lude compliments should never be considered socially appropriate.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

@Dutchess_III Yes, I can do that. In fact, it’s not hard to do it.

If a man tells me “Nice Ass”, I will be flattered and say “thank you”, if he then says “why don’t you come with me for some fun?” , I will reply with “No, thanks”. If he praises me again I will be flattered but will still refuse him. I only take the compliments that makes me happy and avoid the possibly threatening situation that may occur. Now you see how easy it is to fend off unwanted physical assaults but at the same time being able to fully enjoy the praises that they sing about you. If you never say “Yes” to them they will never have any right to touch you. Of course if he dares to lay his hand on me I will slam him mercilessly, on top of that he knows that he can get in to trouble with the police and I don’t think he’s that stupid.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Well in your imaginary scenerios the guy actually asks you, instead of just moving in and taking it by force. If we were always asked, and the guy always gracefully accepted a “No,” then that would be 9/10ths of the battle.
We’re saying in our experiences just saying “No,” has its own dangers that you don’t recognize UM. But I guess you will some day.
I don’t think we’re judging @gorillapaws, as much as scratching our heads in confusion and expressing some concern that UM isn’t taking steps for self protection.

Unofficial_Member's avatar

Alright, folks, after a deep contemplation I realized the danger of what you all spoke of. I have come in to a conclusion that I don’t need compliments and special attention from some strangers as it’s not worth the risks that entail the situation, that it’s better to be safe than sorry, and I have probably been taking a risk without realizing it. I guess it wouldn’t hurt to avoid catcallers altogether. I still have many other happy things in my life.

Thank you all for your patience and understanding. I apologize if I was rather resistant at first (that because I haven’t had the bad experiences that you all afraid might happen in the situation).

Brian1946's avatar

@Unofficial_Member

May I ask you, in what country do you live?

snowberry's avatar

There are many (most) countries in the world where young women and children are abducted and forced into the slave trade. Accepting random “brazen compliments“ as such would edge you closer to being abducted.

On the bright side, if you were abducted, you’d get a whole lot of that kind of talk, along with a lot of really rough treatment.

KNOWITALL's avatar

After reading some articles, I wonder if there may be a societal or cultural conditioning. Looks like it was pretty bad there for quite awhile. There are tons of documented abuses and eyewitness accounts on Google.

Indonesia is a major source of women, children, and men trafficked for the purposes of forced labor and commercial sexual exploitation. To a far lesser extent, it is a destination and transit country for foreign trafficking victims. The greatest threat of trafficking facing Indonesian men and women is that posed by conditions of forced labor and debt bondage in more developed Asian countries – particularly Malaysia, Singapore, and Japan—and the Middle East, particularly Saudi Arabia, according to IOM data. Indonesia women and girls are also trafficked to Malaysia and Singapore for forced prostitution and throughout Indonesia for both forced prostitution and forced labor. – U.S. State Dept Trafficking in Persons Report, June, 2009 [full country report]

Sex Trafficking Growing in S.E. Asia

Fayen Wong, Reuters, Singapore, April 26, 2005

At one time this article had been archived and may possibly still be accessible [here]

[accessed 6 September 2011]

Girls from the villages of Myanmar, Cambodia, Indonesia and the Philippines are lured into cities or neighboring countries with promises of lucrative jobs as waitresses and domestic helpers, only to end up in massage parlors and karaoke bars. Others are flown as far as Australia, Japan, South Africa and the United States to be kept as slaves in brothels—beaten, drugged, starved or raped in the first days of their reclusion to intimidate and prepare them for clients, the experts say.

http://gvnet.com/humantrafficking/Indonesia.htm

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