Meta Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

If you were LGBT would you be afraid to let us Jellies know?

Asked by Dutchess_III (39545points) 3 weeks ago

Do you think we would reject you, or make you feel unwelcome? Do you think we would welcome you, or would we not care at all?

I, personally, think no one here would care, but then again, I’ve never been faced with the decision so I can’t really say.

We have some gay Jellies here, and as far as I know it hasn’t been a problem. As far as I know…

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

86 Answers

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Dutchess_III It’s 2019, what do you think.

chyna's avatar

I’ve been on Fluther for 10 years. I’m sure it would have come out at some point if I were.

Kardamom's avatar

If I was, I would probably tell you, because I would want to discuss issues that I was directly involved with.

I’m already LGBTQ friendly. I live adjacent to one of the biggest LGBTQ communities in the US, so I know, and am friends with, many people who fit into one or more of those categories : )

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

I’m out and loud and proud. There were a handful of bad interactions on this site many years ago. Nothing recently. I feel like my sexual orientation is a non-issue, which is as it should be.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me Many LGBT people have legitimate fears for their safety in Trump’s America and across the globe. There are places in the US where I would not show affection to my boyfriend. There are places on the planet where that affection could get me killed or incarcerated. I live in one of the most accepting places on the planet, but the fact that the way I love is punishable by death in some other places has a very real affect on my well-being. It weighs on me.

Yellowdog's avatar

So, now Trump is anti-LGBTQ?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

The GOP @Yellowdog and Trump !

jca2's avatar

I’m not but I wouldn’t be afraid to tell Fluther if I were.

Stache's avatar

@Yellowdog

Less than two hours after Trump and his virulently anti-LGBTQ activist Vice President Mike Pence were sworn into office, all mentions of LGBTQ issues were removed from the official White House webpage.

Trump signed an executive order stating policy to repeal the Affordable Care Act (ACA)—landmark legislation that provides access to healthcare for millions of LGBTQ people.

Trump’s State Department removed from the website former Secretary of State John Kerry’s apology for the infamous “Lavender Scare” witch hunt in the 1950s and 1960s, and other content LGBTQ content, like information on pride month observances and the State Department’s Special Envoy for the Human Rights of LGBT Persons.

Trump nominated Judge Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court. Gorsuch has a long and troubling career opposing civil rights, including for LGBTQ people. Given this record, HRC took the extraordinary step of opposing this Supreme Court nominee before his hearing—a first for the organization.

Vice President Pence cast the tie-breaking vote to confirm Betsy DeVos as Secretary of Education, after all Democratic Senators and two Republican Senators voted against her confirmation. DeVos’ family foundation funded major anti-LGBTQ orgnazations and campaigns. Her anti-equality record was denounced by major civil rights organizations, including HRC, which actively worked to stop her confirmation.

On a party line vote, Senate Republicans vote to confirm Jeff Sessions as the U.S. Attorney General. HRC and civil rights organization across the country protested Sessions anti-equality record from when he served as Alabama’s Attorney General and as a U.S. Senator.

The Senate confirmed anti-equality Tom Price as U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS), who has spent years in Congress trying to repeal the ACA and opposing every LGBTQ equality measure.

Under the direction of Sessions and DeVos, the U.S. Departments of Justice and Education revoked the Obama Administration’s guidance detailing school protections for transgender students under Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972.

The Senate confirmed equality opponent Ben Carson as Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Carson has made clear he opposes equality for LGBTQ people. His harmful rhetoric has included equating marriage equality with bestiality, opposed laws that protect LGBTQ Americans from discrimination, suggested transgender people be required to use separate bathrooms, and joked that same-sex couples might have their wedding cakes poisoned by anti-equality bakers.

After the Trump administration decided not to protect transgender students, the Supreme Court sent Gavin Grimm’s case back to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. That means transgender students have to wait at least another year for the Supreme Court to affirm their basic rights.

Trump’s HUD—led by anti-LGBTQ proponent Secretary Ben Carson—took two steps backwards on protecting LGBTQ people. First, they withdrew a requirement for emergency shelters receiving HUD funding to post information about LGBTQ people’s rights to access the shelter safely and in accordance with their gender identity. Then, they withdrew critical data collection and evaluation guidelines for a homelessness prevention initiative targeting LGBTQ youth.

The Trump Administration quietly killed a plan to collect data regarding sexual orientation and gender identity from the American Community Survey conducted by the Census Bureau. This was Trump’s latest move to erase LGBTQ people from federal surveys and disrupt programs providing direct assistance to the LGBTQ community.

Trump signed an executive order giving AG Sessions discretion to create a license-to-discriminate in agencies across the federal government against LGBTQ Americans and women.

There’s so much more but I’ve already taken up more space than I should have. This is the Republican party, run by Trump. Here’s the link where I got this info: https://www.hrc.org/timelines/trump

chyna's avatar

@yellowdog That seems to be a lot of the problem with Trump supporters. They see only what they want to see and are blind to bullying and rejection of people that are not straight WASP’s.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@Yellowdog Trump killed funding to research an AIDS vaccine. That only makes sense to an administration that views the disease as only affecting the lives of gay men and black Africans who are fundamentally less valuable.

SergeantQueen's avatar

I’m bisexual and I don’t think any of you would reject me

Demosthenes's avatar

I am gay and have mentioned it more than once. I have no qualms about revealing my sexuality online, though I don’t make it a huge part of my identity.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I don’t care what anyone’s sexual orientation is, as long as it doesn’t involve children, we’re good. If I were not straight, I’d have no qualms about saying so here.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@KNOWITALL It’s not surprising that someone had to revive this old trope: homosexual men abuse children. I wonder if this question had been about heterosexual individuals if you would have found it necessary to bring up child sexual abuse. I seriously doubt it.

“The research is clear, the sexual orientation of an adult is not a factor in the analysis of child abuse. The American Psychological Association, the National Association of Social Workers, the American Academy of Child Psychiatrists and the Child Welfare League of America all have policy statements stating there is no correlation between homosexuality and child abuse.” Source

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I guess you see what you want to see @Hawaii_Jake. The first thing that came to MY mind when I read @KNOWITALL‘s comment was NOT “homosexual men abuse children.”
The first thing that came to my mind were child molesters, period.
I’m sorry that your perception was to see yet more persecution of the LGBT community.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Hawaii_Jake I have to agree with @Dutchess_III, that was not what I said or implied. If you heard that, that’s on you.

Demosthenes's avatar

Yes, that’s how I interpreted it. Some pedophiles try and claim that pedophilia is a sexual orientation to give it legitimacy. That would be an example of a “sexual orientation” (I would argue that it isn’t one and have argued it effectively) that I have a problem with.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@Demosthenes Thank you.

@KNOWITALL and @Dutchess_III The perpetrator does not get to tell the victim that s/he was not really hurt. If I state I’m hurt, the correct reply is “I’m sorry.” I will ask it bluntly, if this question had not been about LGBT folk, would you have even thought to bring up child sexual abuse?

@Dutchess_III There are LGBT people on this planet that are executed for their love. Do you seriously not believe that we are not persecuted? Have you seen the pictures of ISIS throwing gay men from the tops of buildings?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have heard their are actually groups out there that are trying to say it’s normal, and push to make in legal.
Are they our of their freaking minds? By no stretch of the imagination could it be normal!

Dutchess_III's avatar

I didn’t say gay people weren’t persecuted @Hawaii_Jake. I am saying that you imagined persecution of gay people into @KNOWITALL‘s post.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

And the long run of no offensive idiocy on Fluther is over.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Hawaii_Jake I’m not saying I’m sorry because it had nothing to do with you.

And believe it or not, you don’t get to make up rules that I am required to follow.

Please, the outrage is misplaced.

As far as Isis, we know all that exists, but we don’t have to defend ourselves to you about them. That’s not us.

Stache's avatar

When Mark Meadows brought a black employee of Trump’s as a prop to claim Trump isn’t racist was a racist thing to do. Meadows may not be racist, but he was unaware that something like what he did was a racist act. It’s like saying I have a black friend. These are hurtful things to say to a black person. Instead of getting defensive the humane thing to do is say you are sorry. Listen to the black community and try not to make the same mistake. You don’t get to tell the black community to not get offended.

This is exactly the same for what @Hawaii_Jake is saying about @KNOWITALL‘s comment. This same thing happens to the LGBT community. A person will bring up pedophilia, maybe not being aware that this is a hurtful thing to say to the LGBT community. You may not be a homophobe, but what you said was homophobic. Listen to the community who is hurt instead of getting upset and getting defensive. You could say “I’m sorry. I didn’t realize bringing up pedophilia in a discussion about the LGBT community would be hurtful. I was unaware.”

Saying “it’s on you” “quite being so defensive” “your outrage is misplaced” is selfish and heartless.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Stache Thanks for the PC lesson but I’m not a liberal.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have been thinking about what he’s telling us. It doesn’t have anything to do with being liberal or conservative. It has to do with being sensitive and compassionate. However, was @KNOWITALL being insensitive with her comment? She sure didn’t mean to be.
It never even faintly crossed my mind that she was tying in pedophilia with gay men.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I did not get what @Hawaii_Jake did out of what @KNOWITALL posted. It was taken completely out of context IMO.
My comment was too, the OP asked about Fluther not every nook and cranny where people are still persecuted for their sexuality.

rebbel's avatar

I’m whysexual.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III @ARE_you_kidding_me I mean you guys know me, if I wanted to insult him, it would have been really clear. :)

Stache's avatar

@KNOWITALL Being liberal has nothing to do with learning about another group of people and showing some respect for what they go through.

Stache's avatar

@Dutchess_III It didn’t cross your mind because you aren’t gay. Two gay people here have said what is wrong with the statement of including pedophilia in a discussion about the LGBT community. I’m sure @KNOWITALL didn’t mean to offend anyone, but she did with her ignorance. I’m not using ignorance as a slam. There’s nothing wrong with being ignorant about something. What’s wrong is not listening to the offended group and then call it PC or liberal and get all defensive.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Stache You aren’t allowed to say that, Stache, and since you have now I’m a victim and you are the perpetrator. You better say sorry…..lol

Yellowdog's avatar

If I were a Homosexual or Transgender I wouldn’t mind sharing it on Fluther. There is still quite a bit of anonymity on Fluther, and the community is very tolerant and supportive of the LGTBQ community, Although there are not many LGTBQ individuals, and they constitute a minority, they have long needed to be recognized with dignity and respect. Otherwise we stigmatize it in a negative way.

I am convinced that LGBT is widely recognized today as normal, although a good fraction of conservatives still do not recognize them as legitimate behavior. I don’t consider this opposition to be hate, just not acceptance of the legitimacy of the community.

There are other conditions I would NOT announce, but LGTB would not be among them.

I would not announce being a hermaphrodite, or having a diaper fetish or having erectile dysfunction or incontinence, even though such individuals have natural conditions or conditions normative to them, Nothing wrong with these individuals but discussing these things still seem taboo.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Yellowdog I think that when you look you’ll find that anti-LGTB is reserved almost exclusively to religion.

Stache's avatar

@KNOWITALL So you have no desire to learn? You just want to get defensive and call me names? I have not been rude to you at all. I even said I don’t believe you had any ill intentions. At this point the only thing you are doing is showing disrespect to the LGBT community.

Yellowdog's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me
Agreed.

@Stache KNOWITALL did NOT show any disrespect to the LGBT community. I hate to judge your motives, as if I understood I’d be like you and not like myself. But it seems to me that you are trying to make something out of @KNOWITALL ‘s postings that actually isn’t there. Can’t say if you are doing it intentially or not

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

This bullshit is part of the reason I’m so frustrated with the left. Always the victim even if by proxy, always calling out something if it’s really there or not.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Stache What name did I call you? Lol, ya’ll really need to worry about real issues you can control. I assure you, I am not worried about you adding one more false descriptor for me, add it to racist, Trump lover, etc….

Btw, my friends are not nearly as sensitive as you people about discussions like this. I’m actually shocked that you are insisting on being offended.

Demosthenes's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me As a member of the LGBT community, I am sick of the left as well. The heavy-handed condescending way they approach these issues turns anyone off. “Why are you being so defensive, I’m only insulting and falsely accusing you?” Being called “defensive” is fucking stupid anyway. We all defend ourselves when falsely accused of something. It’s natural and it’s not a defect. And I’m tired of people speaking for “the community” like we’re a monolithic entity who all have the same opinions.

I wasn’t offended by the comment because I understood exactly what it meant, i.e. “I don’t care whom you’re attracted to as long as it’s not children”. If you misunderstood it, accept the explanation given and acknowledge your misunderstanding. You can’t demand people swallow their ego when you won’t do it yourself. Believe me, I will and do call out homophobia. I have very little tolerance for it. But this was not homophobia.

Stache's avatar

So much anger and defensiveness. It’s very telling.

Stache's avatar

When you are gay or transgender and you face discrimination, mostly from the religious right, usually the first thing that is said to you is “God doesn’t make mistakes” or “you are going to hell.”

The second line of their defense tries to compare your sexuality to pedophilia. They say that once they agree to accept you having sex or getting married with a person of your same gender, then where do you draw the line? Will having sex with children or animals be next?

This is what @Hawaii_Jake is mentioning. You cannot compare being gay to pedophilia. We’ve already said that that’s not what we think @KNOWITALL intended, but to put the two things in the same sentence or paragraph is a homophobic thing to do.

Listen and learn and quit being so damn defensive. Or continue to rant and rave and say you are being misunderstood. Who’s playing the victim now?

Yellowdog's avatar

@Stache

@KNOWITALL said she didn’t care who anyone is attracted to (e.g. same sex, opposite sex, both, none, transgenders, hermaphrodites, etc etc ) as long as it isn’t children. That means, homosexuals, lesbians, transgenders, bisexuals, are okay, but not pedophiles.

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KNOWITALL's avatar

@All Sorry thread was derailed. Sorry for my word choice, I guess.

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Tropical_Willie's avatar

@KNOWITALL You still don’t get it !

“I guess”

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KNOWITALL's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I didn’t do anything wrong, so you’re lucky I said it at all. I don’t accomodate whiners.

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Tropical_Willie's avatar

@KNOWITALL
Your personal opinion is not reality.
That is the point and don’t get “uppity” and Southern when you are told that ! ! ! !

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Uppity and southern….honey, those are here to stay!

You know you and @Stache should form a fan club, I literally never talk to either of you unless it’s an exchange like this one…..lol, so funny.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Proves my point !!!

stanleybmanly's avatar

I’d like to believe that I wouldn’t care who knew it, but how can I know?

Stache's avatar

@KNOWITALL All I have done is provide a reason why some in the LGBT community are hurt when someone brings up pedophilia in a discussion about their sexuality or identity, whether it was intentional or not. I have said that I didn’t think you intentionally meant any harm because you don’t understand the importance of bringing up pedophilia. I have not been mean. I have not been rude. You are acting like a child. Go back and read what I wrote. Use some comprehension. Education is not a bad thing.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Stache (yawn) Whatever you want from me, is obviously not going to happen sir, but maybe next time.

I really think you should read the wise @Desmosthenes post again, really let it soak in. Until next time, adieu.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@KNOWITALL Simply you are closet homophobic person and you repeatedly show that your view and opinion is more important than another Jelly’s feelings.

You act again like you believe you are singularly smartest person you know ! ! !

Stache's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I want to laugh but honestly it’s quite sad.

@KNOWITALL Newsflash, I’m bisexual. That’s the B in LGBT. I don’t need to read what D said. I have years on him. Your immaturity on this question is embarrassing.

Yellowdog's avatar

A lot of people have stated that they are pissed off at your victimization complex, @Stache

@KNOWITALL did NOT say what you are trying to convince everybody that you believe she did. @Tropical_Willie is just an agitator.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@Yellowdog Duh you too are a homophobe !

Demosthenes's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Am I a homophobe too, then? Or an “Uncle Tom”?

Stache's avatar

Wtf with the reading comprehension here? Is this grade school?

Reread what I wrote @Yellowdog. You all look like fools for getting so defensive.

@Demosthenes You are only a privileged young man who hasn’t faced homophobia like others have before you.

Patty_Melt's avatar

I’m wondering if some jellies see an ad for deodorant and think they are being told they stink.

When people get butt hurt over wording which clearly does not address them personally, the speaker or author is not required to pamper their sensitive perceptions.

Where I stand in regard to @KNOWITALL‘s statement, is my first thought was heteropeds, as being a contrast to OP, or rather, “I’m okay with anyone’s preferences or inclinations, hetero and not, so long as it doesn’t involve children.”
Her statement took me to recent local events, and online predators, not a particular gender, gender preference, or political leaning.

I know it is been said several times on fluther, and frequently by those who are whining on this thread, if you want to be on fluther, you will need a thick skin.

In regards to the original question here, if I were afraid to state any preference on fluther, it would not be any difficulty for me to be “out”, I should think it more treacherous to admit conservative leanings.
I am, however, hetero in preference, but altogether inactive for several years. I don’t know if the alphabet has any letters for that.
I wish no ill will to anyone who does claim one or two letters from the alphabet but I do take offense to people who so want to be a victim they take things out of context just so they have an excuse to cry foul.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

When people playing “victim” get called out for doing so they don’t back off, they double down on it. They pull the playbook out and use the privilege straw defense without knowing the first thing about the person they play it on. SMH, and we are supposed to take them seriously?

Demosthenes's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me Yeah, it’s pretty ridiculous. He can’t delegitimize what I’m saying because of my sexuality (oh he wishes I were straight), so he’ll go after my age and my “privileged” status instead (however that is determined), but I don’t believe I’ve ever really shared much about my experiences with homophobia here (which of course, I have experienced). It’s irrelevant anyway; nothing I said is negated by any of those factors.

No one in this thread has said anything homophobic, in my opinion.

ucme's avatar

Haha, so this was fun.
That being said, I best just answer the question as it stands ;-}
If I was gay I would have no problem with anyone, here or anywhere, knowing.
What I wouldn’t do however is advertise the fact or expect to be treat any differently, both in a positive or negative light.
Being gay does not define anyone, or certainly shouldn’t.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Patty_Melt that’s how I took it. I did not associate it with homosexual men, but I was told that is because I’m not gay.

SergeantQueen's avatar

I’m just going to weigh in (late) and say that @KNOWITALL doesn’t deserve the drama. There are quite a few people on the internet today trying to force “pedosexual” as an LGBT orientation. It has nothing to do with the stereotype of gay men abusing children. At all. I don’t know how active you guys are on other internet sites but there is a huge rise of people claiming to be pedophiles online. Tumblr was under fire for CP.

@Dutchess_III it has nothing to do with whether you yourself are gay or not. The remark @KNOWITALL made wasn’t an attack on gay men.

Maybe instead of getting mad at a remark that wasn’t bad at all, get pissed at all the people making pedo pride flags trying to force it into the LGBT community. Those people are pushing the stereotype or perception that gay men abuse kids, not someone online who says they accept everyone who isn’t a pedo.

kritiper's avatar

I find it queer that you should ask. Does it matter?

Demosthenes's avatar

@SergeantQueen Thank you. Yes, I brought that up but it was ignored for the most part, the way pedophiles try and define pedophilia as an “orientation” so they can legitimize it. I don’t like when people speak for the LGBT community, but “we” don’t want pedophiles co-opting the acronym and acting like they’re just another orientation who need acceptance. Pedophiles do not need acceptance, they need help, if possible. And yes, I have come across it online and it’s very troubling. Especially when people use it as support for the “slippery slope” argument against LGBT acceptance.

kritiper's avatar

For me it’s a matter of “don’t ask, don’t tell.”

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Sergeant Thanks.

Whats even more sad is all the likes on those peoples posts. Sad.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@SergeantQueen I was told that I didn’t equate homosexual men with pedophiles because I am not gay. I did not see @KNOWITALL‘s comment as an attack either.

However, I’ve been listening carefully to all sides.

Yellowdog's avatar

Pedophilia is a fetish, not a sexual orientation.

And if acted upon, it is extreme sexual and psychological abuse and of course a serious crime.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Of course it is. No one here is calling it an “orientation.” It’s a mental illness.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have been thinking and thinking about this. When you are in the thick of a situation you have a completely different view of the world. When dealing with something that is painful or humiliating that most of the world doesn’t understand, and many, many others have to deal with the same hurtful stuff, I don’t think it’s wrong to ask that people try to understand if from a different POV.

I can’t relate to being gay, but I can relate to being a woman, and I can relate to feeling those under currents of sexism and discrimination that a man may very well be blind to, even if it’s happening right in front of him. And if I ever protested and said, “Hey, this is how this feels!” I would not appreciate being dismissed and told I was imagining things by people who will never, ever understand what it’s like to be in my shoes.

I did not see @KNOWITALL‘s comment as being an insult to homosexual men, but I’ve never been on the recieving end of cruel innuendo aimed toward homosexual men because I’m not a homosexual. @Hawaii_Jake is seeing it through the prism of his lens.

We have to at least try to understand. He’s not reacting just to one small comment. It’s one more comment on a mountain of comments.

If we want people to understand us, and believe us, and take what we say seriously, then we have to give them the same consideration….even if we don’t understand it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess I agree with that except @Hawaii ran off after claiming victim status.

Upon further reflection, if he were here now communicating, I’d apologize for the misunderstanding, not the comment. Coming at me sideways isnt condusive to a conversation lol.

Rude, namecalling, passive aggressive behavior will make me stop caring or listening. Thats what Adirondack understood from day one, which is why I loved him.

Yellowdog's avatar

A mental illness, yes, exacerbated by messed up hormones. As I believe I said on a post long ago, if one gets an erection when driving by an elementary school, he is a pedophile. But when one starts supporting the child-porn industry or actually molesting children, they are doing actual serious harm amd ,moves to a more serious level.

The LGTB classifications for sexual orientation are clearly differentiated by being of mutual consent and an act for the well being of one’s partner or love interest. Pedophilia on the other hand is clearly NOT love—it is out of control sex drive and hormonal problems and makes a victim.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I’m not gay, so I feel like I can’t accurately address the question. I would think that I wouldn’t mind declaring it on Fluther.

It shouldn’t be anything to be ashamed of. It’s no different than skin color, or hair color, or anything else you were born with…

tinyfaery's avatar

I am. And I am pretty sure everyone here knows that.

Also, about the other controversy on this site, well, I get both sides.

When a group has been wrongly associated with something so heinous and then someone just haphazardly puts those two things together in a sentence or paragraph, it can be upsetting and even seem like someone is trying to equate the two; especially, since the idea wasn’t clearly stated. That leaves it open to interpretation, and someone might assume that another someone was indeed equating the two things. OTOH, there is no need to think the worst. Seems to me both sides were feeling victimized and lashed out.

Maybe we should all be just a little better at taking criticism.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@tiny I cant always say the right words in the right way to suit everybody, no one can. I feel good about who I am and my intent. If you choose to be offended, so be it. (Shrug)

tinyfaery's avatar

I expect nothing less more of you.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@tinyfaery Then we’re on the same page.

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