Social Question

Dutchess_lll's avatar

When you get a new dog are there certain tests they need to pass?

Asked by Dutchess_lll (5636points) 3 weeks ago

Sigh. We got a puppers. He’s a boxer mix. We named him Copper. We liked him because he was just chill at the humane society, in spite of the pandemonium all around.
So we brought him home.
We feed him. Test one: Rick played in his food as he was eating. He didn’t react at all and that is good.
Test 2: we were hanging out outside on Rick’s Dad’s back patio. He has 3 unfenced acres.
Rick has cousins up the road and one of their Shelte dogs came across the property . Copper saw him and watched him alertly and curiously but didn’t move and didn’t bark. Good sign.
Last test will come tomorrow. We’ve been invited to his cousin’s for a cookout. Tons of kids and other dogs.
They said we can bring Copper, no problem. So that will be the final test and then he will be ours always and forever!

BTW we paid $45 and in return we got a doggo who is neutered, chipped and shot. Helluva deal!

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167 Answers

mazingerz88's avatar

Dog must be a Democrat.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I’d say that you are giving more thought to selecting a proper dog for you, than most Republicans did in voting for their mutt for president.

mazingerz88's avatar

Years ago met a family who just adopted a dog from a shelter. You can tell how happy the dog was. And probably grateful as well. Around that time I noticed a problem. The dog barked at each and every person he saw waking out on the street and they didn’t seem to know how to stop it. I thought what was that dog’s problem? Now with this question I just realized maybe he was just so happy he wanted those people to come into the house too. Lol

Dutchess_lll's avatar

He has not barked one time. We’ve had him 9 hours now.

chyna's avatar

I’ve had 4 boxers. They seldom ever bark. So it must be the boxer in him.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Were they all so chill @chyna? My daughter has a boxer mix and she’s hyper.

chyna's avatar

They are usually pretty hyper for at least the first 2 years.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

This one one is fly, man! Laid back. Can’t wait to post pics.

longgone's avatar

Yes. Lots, after the first few days – that’s when I want my new dog to get to know his home and learn that he is safe with me. I figure it must be very traumatic to come to an entirely new place at such a young age, with no way to understand what’s happening.

I treat all those situations as teaching moments. For example, I would touch my puppies’ chew and then give them a special treat. I worry that by simply grabbing it, the dog’s (hopefully) friendly reaction will be punished and, ultimately, extinguished.

Congratulations. How old is he? Boxer puppies are adorable :]

Dutchess_lll's avatar

He’s 14 weeks or so. We are still at Rick’s Dad’s. I sleep in the bed, Rick sleeps on the couch. It’s 5 am. I woke up and stumbled into the kitchen, assuming Copper was in the living room with Rick. He wasn’t. He was in the kitchen with his chew toys…and SO glad to see me. So excited, like “Oh, it wasn’t a dream! It’s real! You’re real!”
Now we’re outside just chillin.

ragingloli's avatar

Must be young, a good amount of meat on the bones, pre-skinned and gutted.

ZEPHYRA's avatar

So if he doesn’t pass the final test is he out???? Hope he makes it, he seems like a good little guy!

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Well the final test is how he acts around children. We chose him based on the fact that he didn’t seem aggressive, but if we were wrong and he could be a threat to children (or anyone else) then hell yes. Out in a heartbeat.
But I think he’ll do fine.

ragingloli's avatar

Maybe you should get rid of the children instead.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

They aren’t mine. I’m testing him out on other people’s kids! Just because we happen to be here and not home.
I think he’ll do great.

ragingloli's avatar

Seems nonsensical to send the dog back just because it does not like kids, especially since you do not have any.
It is like sending a kid back to the orphanage, just because it does not like brussel sprouts.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Raggy, that was dumb. I have 10 grandkids that I am with often and you know it. We will be camping and playing and interacting and the dog has to get along with them. They are more important.
They come first.
The end.

As I said tho, so far the signs are all good.

ragingloli's avatar

You are wrong, but that is ok.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

I am wrong! LOLLLL! You mean I don’t have 10 grandkids? What exactly am I wrong about? Am I wrong to be sure we haven’t inadvertantly.wound up with a fairly good sized animal that could take a 2 or 3 year old OUT if the dog was ill tempered and having a bad day?

ragingloli's avatar

For me, the dog comes first.
But maybe I am a tiny bit biased, because I hate children with the fury of a thousand exploding suns. Though my hatred is entirely rational.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

That was cool. We’ve been staying at Rick’s childhood home since his Dad passed on the 4th.
Out here there is land, 2 3, 4 acres or more per household.
There are no fences. No one puts their dog on a leash. People, kids, pets, deer, raccoons, groundhogs, bats, owls all wander through.
Copper and I had gone inside and we came back out and there was a pretty red and white Collie dog.
I said “Uh oh…”
Rick is still asleep and I hate breaking up dog fights!
But…they didn’t fight. They just warily introduced themselves, then Collie went and ate out of Copper’s food bowl. Copper didn’t mind (yes!!)
Then I dumped old baked beans and potato salad in the yard and the dogs had a picnic and now we’re friends.
Big sigh of relief.

…with the fury of a thousand exploding suns,” Loli? Does this mean you won’t babysit my 10 kids next Saturday after all? ~

ragingloli's avatar

Not if you want them back alive.

chyna's avatar

I don’t think you should give dogs people food like that. It could upset their tummies and give them the shits. Especially if Cooper has been at a shelter his whole life. He only received dog food there.

anniereborn's avatar

You are expecting a lot of a dog that you just got from a shelter. Especially one so young. If he doesn’t pass all the “tests” you expect, I hope he finds a home that is more chill. And yeh chyna is right. You are likely to get poop and vomit all over. If so, don’t blame him for that one.

Darth_Algar's avatar

I don’t understand. Why would your husband play with the dog’s food? Also, why are you taking him to a chaotic environment full of strange people when he hasn’t even had time to get use to you and his new home yet? You’re almost setting the dog up for failure with all these “tests”.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

He did really well at the family event. There were several other dogs, kids you name it. He stuck close to us but did venture out now and again for a meet and greet.
No signs of aggression.
Looks like we chose well.

anniereborn's avatar

I really and truly hope he continues to do well. Just remember that sometimes a dog will “behave” when he is still new. You may not be able to see if he is overwhelmed. Please continue to be kind to him.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_lll First congrats!! I know you went through some painful times with your past pet and you deserve the love Copper has to offer.

Second, most trainers like the Stay, Sit, Leave it rules for the animal’s safety. Sometimes you have to gain their trust first and let the acclimate for a week or two first, depending on their focus and age.

Third, I like that you are testing the dog before making a final decision. Food aggression, animal aggression and people aggression are huge issues with really deadly consequences for the animal. They would be put down if they couldn’t be rehabbed, so good job.

I’ve been around a lot of pits and boxers, boxers aren’t really that aggressive in my opinion but they can have really high energy levels and they use their feet a lot, which can be heavy and sharp. So if you play with the dog rough, he’s liable to get rough, so you may want to NOT encourage that if you want him around the kids a lot. They are good-natured animals and I think you’ve chosen a good active breed that will encourage you to exercise.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Again, why would you even touch the dog’s food after serving it to them? Just to display your dominance, or what?

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Darth_Algar It’s a test of aggression. If he’d snarled or snapped at Rick for doing that we’d have a problem. But he didn’t. He didn’t even protest when the neighbor’s dog showed up and started eating out of his food bowl.

Lord, we’re back home now. Poor dog probably thinks that’s all we do is drive. He just met Vanta. To my utter amazement they touched noses and…that’s all. I was afraid she was going to come unglued. Maybe she knows he’s her new pal.
He’s making himself right at home, too.

Thanks @KNOWITALL. We’re doing everything we can to ensure he’s a good fit for this family and so far it is 100%.

Also, he does not have diarrhea and he is not vomiting.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III Sounds like a good boy!! Pics soon please?!

Dutchess_III's avatar

Here and here.

This morning I opened my eyes to him standing over me, with his tongue out and, I swear, laughing, like “Get UP Mom! It’s another day! It’s time for new adventures!! GET UP GET UP GET UP!!”

Dutchess_III's avatar

LOL! Before Rick got up Cato (the dog formerly known as Copper) and I took a walk down Rick’s dad’s land. When we got back Rick was up, having coffee under the carport. Cato ran up to him shaking, staring at him intently.
“What’s he trying to tell me?” Rick asked.
“Probably that Mom put him in the creek!” I said.
He is the most cautious dang dog I’ve ever known. He will not go in a new room by himself the first time. You have to carry him in. He refused to come in the house the first time. Had to carry him him.
He wouldn’t get in the creek so I put him in it. The water was so deep it almost came up to his ankles! He got out of there PRONTO, boy!!
Can’t wait to get him to the lake!

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III “It’s a test of aggression. If he’d snarled or snapped at Rick for doing that we’d have a problem.”

But why even put the dog in that position to begin with? Especially fresh from a situation where he may well have had to fend for every bit of food he got. What real purpose does it serve? If someone came up while you were eating and stuck their hand in your food how would you react?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth Its different with dogs. Food aggression is serious, a kid could get mangled. An adult can do the test wirhout harm, but with free roaming dogs, maybe theres a bday party or bbq, you have to test them before adding 10 kids in the equation.

You just never know the triggers with rescue dogs. To me its responsible ownership.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I told you. Rick did that to test his aggression level. And like @KNOWITALL said, you want to find out if he he has that kind of trigger under controlled circumstances, not when some kid toddles up to him while he’s eating.

If someone stuck their hand in my food I would say “Why did you stick your hand in my food? All you have to do is ask for some.” I would not snarl and try to bite them, which is what aggressive dogs do.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

His awe with all things outdoors is touching. He loves the grass and especially the leaves. The creek not much.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess Sweet, you’ll all be very happy, I’m sure.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

OMG! He and Vanta are actually getting along! I was worried about her being an asshole to the baby….but he got this. I am astonished.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL “Food aggression is serious, a kid could get mangled.”

Teach the kid not to disturb the dog while it’s eating. And, well, if the kid does it anyway and gets bit then that’ll learn him real quick.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Darth, no. If my kids were the only kids ever around him that is feasible. But my kids won’t be the only ones around him as the barbque the other night showed. Anyway he doesn’t have food agression so yay.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth Sigh.

longgone's avatar

Progressive dog trainers see resource guarding as a very serious matter, and it’s important to note that the binary thinking of whether a dog is food aggressive or not can create a false sense of security. The stories of children mauled by the family dog almost always claim the dog attacked “out of the blue”, and they usually highlight a stunning lack of supervision or attention. That’s a sad effect of the “Lassie syndrome”, which leads us to believe that good dogs should allow children to pull on their ears, climb on their back, and take food right out of their mouths. If the dog is “child-proof”, parents feel safe letting dogs and kids interact without direct supervision.

In my opinion, any dog who’s eating or chewing on a bone should be seen as a source of danger. Even after ten years of letting kids grab his bone, some dogs finally snap. Stress accumulates in dogs, just as it does in people. Maybe a hand reaching into my puppy’s food bowl doesn’t bother him at home, but it makes him growl when it’s paired with extreme hunger, or lack of sleep, or the pain of arthritis, or a loud noise in the background.

It makes sense to teach both the dog and any children involved. That way, if one safety net fails you still have another. For example, I would teach kids that only adults can take anything out of the dog’s mouth or reach into his bowl. I would also teach the dog that it is awesome news when a hand gets close to his dinner, because that hand always offers a “dessert” of chicken, cheese, or something equally delicious.

I did this with my young dog, but hadn’t heard about it when I raised my older one. While both allowed people to reach into their bowls, the difference was stark: My old girl looked very disappointed and anxiously waited until she could resume eating. Wilson, my younger one, looks on with a totally zen expression. He wags his tail and pants happily, no matter how long it takes until he can dive in again.

For anyone struggling to explain dog rules to children, here’s a song about it.

chyna's avatar

@longgone Very informative! Good answer.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I can train my own kids, and I do. I can’t train other people’s kids. So I do my best to be sure my dogs are not likely to turn into assholes under unusual circumstances. So far, in 40 years of dog ownership, I haven’t missed the mark.

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III I don’t even understand why you would choose to feed him when other children are around.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t “choose” to feed him. He always has food available. He eats when he wants to eat at my house. I don’t micromanage other people’s or animal’s eating habits.
As far as at a barbque at someone elses house, if he DID have food aggression, and someone tossed him a rib bone and a toddler walked up on him to pet him while he’s eating, it could be bad…IF he had a food aggression. Which he doesn’t.

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III Why would he be at someone else’s house? I just don’t understand. I guess my dogs’ lives have just been totally different. I hope he continues to behave.

KNOWITALL's avatar

If I may @Dutchess_III, here in the Midwest, dogs are either working dogs or family. Dutchess and I raise ours like family, they go where we go, do what we do.

Free-feeding is having food in the bowl at all times, I do the same thing so my old gal doesn’t get anxious. Many rescue dogs have been hungry and they get weird about food.

Maybe it’s different here, but to me, everything @Dutchess_III says makes perfect sense. I take my dogs on Dog/ Mom days, to the park, to the lake. I don’t even understand leaving them at home all the time, that’s cruel to me!

Dutchess_III's avatar

He would be at someone elses house for the same reason that my children might be at someone elses house. He’s family. We go visiting other people. We go to the lake. We go to the park. We’re heading back to Pittsburgh today so he’ll go visiting family with us.
Why would he not continue to behave? I’ve never had a well behaved dog suddenly turn into a badly behaved dog.

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III Simply because it’s the early days. Shelter dogs sometimes behave different when they first get a home.
@KNOWITALL Do you not work? You can’t take a dog to work. At least I never could. BTW I do live in the Midwest, and my pets were always family. Not sure how it’s cruel to leave them at home.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@anniereborn It’s not cruel to leave the dog at home. But if we’re doing casual fun things the dogs, and the kids, come with us. I wouldn’t go to the lake for 3 days and leave the dog, or the kids, at home.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III “As far as at a barbque at someone elses house, if he DID have food aggression, and someone tossed him a rib bone and a toddler walked up on him to pet him while he’s eating, it could be bad…IF he had a food aggression. Which he doesn’t.”

Word of caution, because this is exactly the type of thinking I was referring to: I don’t know of any reliable studies on this, but in all the cases of food aggression I have personally worked on as a trainer, the issue was not apparent at the age of 14 weeks. That’s like saying since your six-year-old has never knifed anyone, they’ll be a law-abiding citizen forever.

@chyna Thanks!

Dutchess_III's avatar

If he turns out to be aggressive in the long run he will be rehomed.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III Many people share that perspective. Personally, I think it’s very problematic.

We put these creatures into a setting where their natural behaviours (i.e.; guarding what’s in their mouth) are “wrong”. Few people bother to explain these rules to their dogs, practicing the human-approved response. And yet, if the dog fails to automatically understand our complicated laws, they get punished.

“Rehomed” for an aggressive dog often means “death”. It’s hard for me to understand why so many people risk going through that trauma (with a family member’s life at stake) rather than doing a bit of prevention in the early days.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m TRYING to anticipate and do what prevention I can, but at this point he seems to be fine on all counts. Believe it or not, he and Vanta are actually becoming friends! They were tussling and wrestling and chasing each other. I was afraid Vanta would rip him a new one.
And if “rehoming” means a humane death, then it is what it is. There are worse things than dying, you know.

Dutchess_III's avatar

OH! And he learned to ask to go in and out yesterday! I put his food and water out on the back deck so he’d figure it out. The first time he walked to the door and stood there, and I opened the door, he looked up at me in surprise. After that, though, every 3 minutes he wanted in and out, in and out, in and out! HE IS THE MASTER OF HIS DOMAIN!
As soon as he grasps the idea of not peeing in the house I’ll bring his food and water in the house.
And, he crapped on the animal control guy’s foot, LOL!

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III Just do what you’re doing, you know what’s up.

@anniereborn You said why would he be at someone else’s house. Well to visit, a playdate, etc…they don’t just stay home all the time, we get around. Mine go to McDonalds for a burger, all kinds of things-although not as much in this heat here lately.

Dutchess_III's avatar

To the lake to swim. I take mine to McD’s too, especially when we go to the vet.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Personally I’d never take my pet into an environment I cannot control. Precisely because he may behave quite differently than he does at home, nor is he going to know what others might expect out of him. And I would never allow someone else to toss food, and certainly not table scraps, at him. I don’t feed my pets from my own scraps. Anyone else who did so would get a stern word from me.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Well the kids piled into the house unexpectedly. They flipped when the saw the puppy and RAN toward him. He didn’t care for that! So the kids got a talking too and we started over. Now every one is chill.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth With a leash you’d be surprised how many places we can take our furbabies now. You are supposed to socialize them, actually, per Cesar Milan. If sonething happens to you, you want the dog easy to get along with, amiable.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Starbucks has puppicinos btw.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Baby is WIPED OUT! Crashed like a log.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

Yes, I know what a leash is. Nevertheless, my statement stands. I know first hand how often people tend to ignore a dog’s body language and the owner’s caution. I use to have this Scottish Terrier. Ill-tempered little thing, except for the handful of people in our small family. Yet nearly every time I walked him there’d be some jackass who’d stop hover over him and try to pet him, despite every bit of his body language saying otherwise and despite my warning.

ragingloli's avatar

This all reminds me of this Worf quote:
“At the first sign of betrayal, I will kill him, but I promise to return the body intact.”

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III

“I’m TRYING to [...] do what prevention I can”

I didn’t realise you were doing any prevention. From your description, I imagined that Copper was learning only a negative association to hands in his bowl, not a positive one. So he is getting something out of being so peaceful, not just “losing” his access to food?

“They were tussling and wrestling and chasing each other.”

That’s so cool! How nice for Vanta, too.

“There are worse things than dying, you know.”

Sure. That seems like a really callous attitude, though, and it surprises me because I know you are kind to your dogs. To me, few things are worse than thousands of deaths that could have been prevented with basic training.

@KNOWITALL

I agree that many dogs enjoy going on outings. You don’t think Cesar Millan is a credible source though, right?

Some info on his cluelessness and abuse.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@longgone He didn’t learn ANY association with fingers in his bowl. Rick only did it that one time, and there was no reaction. Rick didn’t deprive him of his food. He just rustled it around for 2 seconds as Copper was eating. Copper didn’t react. (We changed his name to Cato, BTW. We were tripping over Copper and Cooper, which is my grandson’s name.)
I think it is far more callous to humans keep an animal around who has the capability, and the temperament, to maul and disfigure people. I had a girl in one of my classrooms last year who was missing her lower jaw due to to a dog attack when she was little.

Rick hates Ceasar Millan. I don’t care for him either.

@Darth_Algar I am starting to understand the basis of our disagreement. You’re willing to adopt, and raise, “ill tempered” dogs. I am not. Fortunately Cato is turning out not to be ill tempered. Our first instincts, just watching him in the pound, seem to be turning out to be correct.

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III Every unwanted pet deserves to be wanted and to have a loving home. Some of us are just more patient than others. I adopted an “ill tempered” stray cat. It took a long time for her to come around and it was totally worth it. She became very loving in time became my best friend.

Also “you can always rehome them” is a terrible attitude to have @longgone is so right about what would happen.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I agree that every unwanted, dangerous pet deserves a home, but I am not going to put my kids at risk to provide one with one. My children’s safty comew first, well before any feel good philosophy. That’s all I have to say about that.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III “I am starting to understand the basis of our disagreement. You’re willing to adopt, and raise, “ill tempered” dogs.”

No, I’m willing to raise a dog while respecting that, just like people, they each have their own personalities and comfort zones. I’m willing to raise a dog and not expect it to be some perfect little toy for for just any jackass who wants to walk up and pet it. There are very few people I’d allow to touch me. I respect my animal’s right to chose likewise for themselves.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@longgone I don’t have any intention of debating Cesar’s methods in this thread.

Dutchess_III's avatar

If you’re willing to put your kid’s, or other people, or other people’s kid’s well being at risk to practice your philosophy, then that’s fine. That’s your business, Darth. It is not a chance I’m willing to take.

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III my pets ARE my kids.

Dutchess_III's avatar

That’s fine. My kids are my kids, and they are more important than any animal I will ever have.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III

If someone else is violating my my space then, yes, I have no problem putting them at whatever risk. You get a warning. If you ignore that warning and persist in your folly then you own whatever happens.

And yes, it’s a standard I apply to myself as well. I was once bit on the hand by a dog we had and I knew full and well that I had earned that bite. I knew he wasn’t feeling well and I ignored the dog’s signals that he just wanted to be left alone. I continued to disturb him and I paid for my folly. It wasn’t an aggressive bite, but a defensive one. It wasn’t to maim, but it sent the message loud and clear – “leave me alone”. Still have the scar on my hand to remind me that when someone, animals included, says “leave me alone” to leave them the fuck alone.

Dutchess_III's avatar

That’s fine.

Dutchess_III's avatar

We should name him Nomad. Lord. We got him a week ago yesterday, and in that time he’s been to and from Pittsburg twice. It’s a 2.5 hour drive. He rides well. (He sleeps.)
Some new things I learned about him….he can be trusted alone in the house and the car without tearing shit up. People call it “separation anxiety.”
He does bark at people when they come around. Don’t care for that. I’m hoping we can socialize him out of it.
He doesn’t like getting in and out of the car.
He doesn’t like McDonald’s cheeseburgers! I grabbed him one on the road today in case he was hungry. He ignored it.
Also, I took him to a dog park at about the halfway point. He wouldn’t drink out of the big tub full of water, even though it was freshly pumped, but he drank the heck out of the big cup of water I got him at McDonalds.
And…right now he’s tearing up a return vent filter. Sigh.

anniereborn's avatar

Sigh…..McDonald’s hamburgers? The dog has good taste to not like it.

ragingloli's avatar

Guess it is off to the chinese restaurant for him!

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s hamburger meat @anniereborn. I just thought it was interesting.

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III I wouldn’t be too sure about that :p

Darth_Algar's avatar

I’m not sure I’ve ever met a dog who’ll eat McDonald’s.

ragingloli's avatar

I have met one who ate a dog.
EIEIO

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, from what you said you’d never offer it @Darth_Algar, so how would you know? Every dog I’ve ever had will eat hamburger meat.

Darth_Algar's avatar

No, I wouldn’t. Because I’ve seen first-hand how ill the shit we shove into our maws can make a dog. Doesn’t mean I haven’t offered it before I was aware, nor does it mean that I haven’t seen other dog owners offer McDonalds crap to their dogs (who then refused to touch it).

And no, it isn’t simply hamburger meat. McDonald’s seems to be on a whole different level of bottom-of-the-barrel, barely edible shite.

Dutchess_III's avatar

No they aren’t. It’s just hamburger. But that’s for another discussion.

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III Hamburger meat that is thick with grease.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, don’t eat it if you believe that.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Please tell me this is progress! He went to the sliding glass doors that lead to the “Outside! Outside!” I’m always talking about, squatted and peed…..that’s a good sign, right?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III Let’s argue about why the sky is blue, for absolutely no reason. Who cares?!

For those that do-
A slice of melted processed cheddar cheese on a juicy, 100% Canadian beef patty with tangy pickles and onions, ketchup and mustard on a freshly-toasted bun.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I think they get their beef from Australia. [McDonalds] cannot satisfy its need for lean beef by buying solely from American sources and has to turn to beef exporters outside the USA to make up the shortfall. It’s not a question of there not being enough beef in the USA; it’s a matter of the beef available for sale not meeting McDonald’s standards for leanness.

“American ranchers, however, claim that McDonald’s leanness standards are too high, and that if McDonald’s lowered its standards to a more reasonable level, it could easily purchase all the lean beef it needs without resorting to foreign imports.”Source

And I got it plain for him.

ragingloli's avatar

@KNOWITALL
More like a slab of yellow factory sludge, on top of a piece of corrugated cardboard, between to pieces of industrial sponge, drowned in several litres of sugar sauce to have at least some measure of taste.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Have you even ate at an American McDonalds? We all know it’s not farm fresh ingredients…a kid wants a cheeseburger once a month, they get a cheeseburger, it won’t kill them or the dog.

ragingloli's avatar

Then make one at home.
Gordon Ramsay has some recipes for actually good burgers on youtube.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Nope, my boy wants a cheeseburger, he gets a cheeseburger. I do prefer Hardees, but McDonalds will do in a pinch. We’ll be okay, I promise….haha!

Dutchess_III's avatar

WE ALL GONNA DIE AND LIVE TO A RIPE OLD AGE FIRST!!
We don’t have a Hardees here. :( Life sucks.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III They have all beef sliders, but no McNuggets (which are 100% white meat and phosphates @ragingloli)

ragingloli's avatar

Philistines, the lot of you.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Mmm…Phillistines has green peppers and onions. Doggo wouldn’t like that I don’t think.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli haha, my or my mother cook almost every night, I promise. We try to avoid processed foods for her health.

The dogs treats are home baked sweet potatoes, with a hot dog thrown in about once a month, they’re spoilt rotten. They dance very cute for hot dogs or the nasty Vienna sausages….yuck!

@Dutchess My dog’s will eat broccoli, cauliflower and all kinds of healthy things. They’re crazy.

Dutchess_III's avatar

My dogs eat carrots and potatoes too. But I don’t think they’ll eat onions or that I want them too! IDK about green peppers.

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III Why in the world would you even give a dog onions or green peppers?

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III You are just trolling me now, aren’t you? Seriously?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@anniereborn They come on the cheeseburger….hahaha

anniereborn's avatar

@KNOWITALL Yes, I know onions do.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@anniereborn I was just kidding, dogs can’t have onions. @Dutchess_III gets them plain, she posted that earlier.

Dutchess_III's avatar

If you were at a cook out and onions and peppers fell on the ground and the dog went and actually ate them, would you freak out @anniereborn?

anniereborn's avatar

First of all, I would not take my dog to a cook out. Second of all, anywhere I would take my dog, he would be on a leash. Third of all, if that did happen, I would stop on the way home for stain remover to clean up the puke and diarrhea

Dutchess_III's avatar

Wow. You never have cook outs at home? You never take your dog to the country or to the lake to secluded places where they can run free? You micro control his every move? That’s sad as hell!
If the onion was going to make him sick I doubt he’d eat it, unless he’s mindless.

anniereborn's avatar

I am not near a lake or “the country”, nor have I ever been. I don’t really care much about cook outs since I don’t eat meat. It’s not worth the work for veggies. And yes, many dogs are mindless.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Is this a ‘dog fight’? hahahahaha~

We all have our own style of doggy-parenting, ladies, as long as they’re healthy and happy, it’s all good.

Darth_Algar's avatar

“If the onion was going to make him sick I doubt he’d eat it, unless he’s mindless.”

Yes. Antifreeze certainly proves that theory true.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Do you have a back yard he can run? Or is he strictly a house dog?

There are always exceptions @Darth_Algar. Onions won’t kill a dog even it he DOES eat them…which I really don’t think he would. I’ve never had a dog eat tomatoes, as far as I know. But corn and carrots and potatoes and breads, yes. They aren’t obligate carnivores like cats are.

KNOWITALL's avatar

fyi, It only takes 100 grams of onion (about the size of a medium onion) per 20 kilograms of a dog’s weight to cause toxic effects, which means that a 45-pound dog would only have to eat one medium-to-large-size onion to experience dangerous toxicity levels.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Hm. Well. We have wild onions all over out here, including in my back yard. Always have had.
I was sitting on the deck watching Cato explore the back yard for one of the first times. He kept putting stuff in his mouth and mostly spitting it back out. Some stuff he ate. Yes he has fresh dog food and water just a few yards away.

anniereborn's avatar

@Duchess Yep, dogs will do that. Putting random crap in their mouths I mean. It’s great that he has room to explore tho. When I had my two dogs we had a big fenced in back yard. I would take them for walks, but not off the leash.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

I guess we are each trying to wrap our minds around 2 so different doggo worlds.
We can’t wait to get Cato out to the lake.
We have camping to do…

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_lll I am SO not an outside person. So there’s that.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

And there is that! ;D

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_lll

It doesn’t have to kill them to make them ill. There’s a fairly wide spectrum there. Some human foods, even ones we think of as fairly benign (chocolate, for example) can kill a dog, yes. Others may just upset their digestive tract for a day or two.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I guess there are some chances we just will take. I’ve had dogs all of my life. All of them have eaten chocolate at one time or another. It never made one even slightly sick, much less killed them.
Some of this social networking “FIRE FIRE FIRE” is simply insane.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III The toxicity of theobromine is well-established. Like any toxic substance, it matters how much is ingested compared to the individual’s body weight. A couple mg of arsonic won’t kill you. 100mg will.

If you’re looking for anecdotes, check out this Reddit thread. Notable excerpts:

“My families dog (yellow lab) ate two king size bags of M&Ms and died. Dogs react to chocolate the same way humans react to cocaine, so its like an overdose. It was really sad because we werent home when it happened, so my sister came home and found her dead, and there was nothing we could do.

My grandparent’s 9 year old Boston terrier ate a whole chocolate cake, proceeded to have a seizure and passed away on the way to the vet. He had made it through previous abusive owners and only had one eye in which he was blind…but couldn’t survive the chocolate cake :(”

My SO’s golden retriever ate a bar of dark chocolate and died the next day. It was devastating. It’s not worth the risk that’s for sure. I always try to be really conscious of where chocolate goes when I eat it around dogs now.”

Now, there are also close to thirty stories of dogs eating chocolate and being fine on that thread. Again, it’s about the amount. Here is a chocolate calculator which can tell you how much chocolate is dangerous to your dog. Do you remember how much your dogs ingested?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III

Or here’s another. But yeah, you probably know better than all the vets and experts and stuff. I’m sure it’s all just “FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!”.

Sure, you can take that chance if you want. But it’s a rather stupid chance to take for no good reason at all.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Well if my dog is idiot enough to pig out on coco powder (listed as THE most toxic) I’ll be sure tomonitor him. (Pretty sure coco powder alone would be toxic to humans in certain quantities. So DO NOT EVER EAT CHOCOLATE AGAIN!!)

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth Calm down, smh.
My friends dog ate a box of chocolate and shat for two days and was fine.

Dutchess had a dog die recently of old age and she did it far longer than most would, maybe even me. Get off her bro.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

It was prolly the sugar that made him shat, not the chocolate.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_lll Probably. Now that friend has three senior dogs going thru health issues, plus adopting. Poor fella.

Dutchess_III's avatar

BTW, “Sugar high” is a myth.. We serve sugary stuff with high energy activities like Halloween, Easter and Birthday Parties. It’s the excitment of those events that fire kids up, not the sugar.

Also sugar in the gas tank is a myth too.

But it will cause diarrhea if eaten in large quantities. My son used to get stopped up pretty consistently as an infant. I started giving him brown sugar water bottles once a day, and that took care of that.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Jesus fucking Christ…

Dutchess_III's avatar

Don’t like having your hysterical urban myths debunked @Darth_Algar? Lord. What are you going to believe in now??

Darth_Algar's avatar

Your “debunking” is nothing of the sort, but rather the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ear and saying “lalalala I’m not listening!”. But by all means, remain willfully ignorant.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I am just not one to run around, flapping my hands, screaming “FIRE FIRE FIRE!!” because it’s the hip thing to do at the moment.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

We took him to the lake for the first time! He is not a water dog or a retriever. But he RAN!! And ate weird shit.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_lll

Nah, just one to ignore all evidence that contradicts what you want to believe.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

He does not like broccoli. I was eating some and he said he wanted to try it so I gave him a piece. He examined it for a while then ignored it.

anniereborn's avatar

If your dog is talking to you, that’s when you really need to worry. But not about him.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Ha ha! Well, he communicated interest.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Today was great. Kids pounded around in the house all day and Cato just placidly laid on the floor in the middle of it all.

anniereborn's avatar

Well I am glad you got a servile dog that fits your needs.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Was that meant to be an insult, @anniereborn?

Dutchess_III's avatar

But yes. I was glad and pretty impressed that he stayed calm in the middle of all of that stimulation. Some dogs will run after the kids, nipping at their heels and jumping at them and biting their clothes. That can turn dangerous. Cato just watched the kids alertly.

I forgot to mention, when we saw him the first time he was in a cage with one other dog, a littermate. When we went to pick him up he was outside in a bigger cage with about 7 other dogs. That meant they trusted him to get along with the other dogs.

Next week my dad’s wife is coming to visit and we’ll be having a cookout at a park.

I guess there are some people who want more reactive, aggressive dogs, because god knows people have enough of them, big and small, but I don’t understand why anyone would want that.

anniereborn's avatar

Maybe they happen to have gotten a dog like that. They don’t know how to train them. But they aren’t going to throw him back because of it.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, if they have small children, I guess they need to rehome them instead of the dog.

Also, I did not train this dog to get along with other dogs. It did not train him to stay calm when all the other dogs in the pound were going crazy. I did not train him to stay calm around children. It is his personality and Rick and I specifically looked for these traits.
Other people specifically gravitate toward more aggressive, less friendly traits.

ragingloli's avatar

Sell them for parts.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III “Well, if they have small children, I guess they need to rehome them instead of the dog.”

Why not? What makes kids so special?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Cato peed on the carpet and immediately ran to the back door. I think we’re making progress, right?

Dutchess_III's avatar

OMG NO ACCIDENTS OVER NIGHT!!!

He’s still chewing on everything in sight. I casually posted a picture on Facebook of all the shit he’s dragged out to chew on and said, “My beautiful house! ;(”
Someone suggested I hire a trainer. HE’S 4 MONTHS OLD! I can’t train being a baby out of him!

Dutchess_lll's avatar

He peed down the return vent, which is in the floor, and on to the filter.
Or maybe Rick did it.

anniereborn's avatar

HAHAHAHAHAHA

longgone's avatar

“Someone suggested I hire a trainer. HE’S 4 MONTHS OLD! I can’t train being a baby out of him!”

You’re right, it would be silly to consider chewing a problem at this stage. There are some very unrealistic expectations of dogs out there. Have you tried frozen Kongs?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Haven’t heard of them. Where would I find them?
He’s smart. He understands “No.” Which is nice. Our acquaintance the other day complemented the dog on the fact that he doesn’t jump on people. He wants to but I push him down and say, “No.” He’s picking up on it all really fast.

longgone's avatar

You can find a Kong at any pet store and even large grocery stores. It is a rubber toy. If you stuff it with wet dog food (or a cheeseburger ~), your dog will have a lot of fun emptying it for an hour. He will also learn to chew on rubber toys, not furniture. You can stick them in the freezer, for lasting fun and a bit of pain relief from the teething.

Cato sounds really fun. I’m jealous.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Cheeseburger! LOL!!

He is fun. And silly. And goofy. And smart. And handsome. And tomorrow…we have company!

Dutchess_lll's avatar

We are getting ready for company. We’ve been running the vacuum and steam cleaner all.day. What a racket! Doggo fielded it with aplomb. Never got scared or skittish. Moved away but not scared.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Fascinating.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Good dog. Had 3 kids along with my daughter today. Wish I’d gotten a picture of him and the kids running through our large back yard.

anniereborn's avatar

Has this become Doggo’s journal?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yes it has.
We’re working on training him to sit when people come in the back door, instead of barking and rushing at them. He’s getting better.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Lol! I called the city office to find out what my bill is. The gal who fielded the call is my favorite person. I am now under instructions to bring the puppy into the office when I pay the bill on Friday. :D

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