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chyna's avatar

If Epstein was on suicide watch, how did he manage to commit suicide?

Asked by chyna (43229points) 1 week ago from iPhone

Jeff Epstein, millionaire child abuser managed to kill himself while on suicide watch. Were the guards lax in their duty or was Epstein that smart?
Lots of conspiracy theories have been and will be floating around on this. What do you think?

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75 Answers

ragingloli's avatar

I am convinced that this is one of these “He shot himself in the head. From behind. With his hands tied behind his back. From a 10m distance. How tragic.” situations.
He was murdered, to tie up loose ends.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Successfully :-)

I think there is a better than even chance that he didn’t do it himself. But honestly, who cares? The dude was bad and he got what was coming to him. I’m really not overly concerned about how it happened.

zenvelo's avatar

The speculation will be was it the Clinton Cabal? Or the Trump camp? When you have the goods on the President, Federal Prisons can’t keep anyone safe.

zenvelo's avatar

The Feds kept him safe just like they kept Whitey Bulger safe.

Demosthenes's avatar

Yeah, already seeing a lot of arguing on other sites about whether Clinton or Trump was responsible. This is not the first time “suicide watch” has failed. I completely expected this to happen, but it’s still disappointing. No chance at putting him to justice, no chance at uncovering the true extent of this “sex ring”. One thing’s for sure, people will believe what they want about what happened without evidence. It’ll just be another source of division.

mazingerz88's avatar

Curious as to how he did it. Surprised he did it but I didn’t know the man except in the news.

Read in the past several years about how people in jail cells were able to kill themselves and so this suicide shouldn’t be shocking———-but politically motivated conspiracy theorists without a doubt would still concoct inciteful stuff. Russia will push these theories on the net and I for one might temporarily succumb by reading some of them. Dang it.

Dutchess_III's avatar

This was the first I heard of it.

jca2's avatar

It makes sense that he was on suicide watch.

I guess we’ll hear in the next few days how he did it, or supposedly did it.

The stories of what his crimes were will still come out. He just won’t live through the hell of being embarrassed and going through court.

seawulf575's avatar

Actually, he had been pulled off suicide watch prior to his death. That doesn’t mean that this was suicide…just that he wasn’t on a suicide watch. Maybe the guards had something else in mind or were hoping he’d end it all. I dunno.

LadyMarissa's avatar

What I read said he had been on suicide watch but indicated that he may have been taken off of the watch. It doesn’t really natter what I think as William Barr is going to get to the bottom of this as it is unacceptable….his words NOT mine!!!

The girls who were abused by him won’t get the satisfaction of seeing him go to jail; however, they will have the satisfaction of knowing that he’ll NEVER abuse another little girl. Now each victim can sue his estate with no one to contest their claims as he had no family!!!

elbanditoroso's avatar

My personal conspiracy theory:

Some of Trump’s cronies (and maybe even Donnie himself) are behind it. In that batch of stuff released yesterday, apparently there were dozens of names of ‘guests’ of Epstein’s. My theory is that some of those names were for “Friends of Trump” – maybe even Donald himself.

So the word was put out to the mob in prison to silence Epstein, in hopes that the revelations would die.

Of course I have zero evidence of any of this.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Was he going to testify against trump?

elbanditoroso's avatar

Who knows? But there could have been very damaging stuff in those documents just released.

Zaku's avatar

@elbanditoroso “I think there is a better than even chance that he didn’t do it himself. But honestly, who cares? [...] My personal conspiracy theory: ..”
Your later post answers the rhetorical question in your first post.

It seems to me that the fact it was allowed to happen, and the apparent lack of knowledge about how that happened, point to corruption all by itself.

The POTUS was already sued in the past (though dismissed…) with detailed statements about Epstein and Trump raping an underaged girl.

It seems like it would/should be the responsibility of say, the FBI, to both keep Epstein alive, and/or set a trap to detect anyone trying to have him killed, and/or investigate the bejeezus out of what actually happened that led to his “suicide”, as well as continuing to investigate the bejeezus out of Epstein and whoever else was involved in his pedophilia circus and related blackmail of officials and other powerful people, etc.

I.e. It should be a gold mine for any organizations interested in dealing with corruption and pedophilia of people in high positions of power.

And if our investigating agencies are NOT interested in doing that, that too seems to me like a sign that those agencies are corrupt, or at least are messed up enough that they need reorganization and re purposing.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Those who are incarcerated no matter how sick their crime HATE pedophiles & they don’t allow them to last very long!!! When Jeffrey Dahmer was murdered in prison nobody cared. As a matter of fact, tens of thousands of New Jersey residents were clapping & throwing a party!!!

MrGrimm888's avatar

Fuck him. Glad he’s dead. Does it really matter, if he was executed, or killed himself? I hope he burns in Hell. He was a terrible person, and would probably have died by some means. I agree, that he may have been murdered, by some powerful person. But I just don’t care. FUCK him. One less wealthy loser, means that the world is a better place, to me.

Maybe others like him, will take note. Doubt it, but I’m glad he’s dead.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

It was Her Emails.

Zaku's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Yes, it matters, because if the authorities were competent and not corrupt, he could have given information about the other people involved, some of whom are very powerful. And there may have been very influential blackmail events he could give information about. And if he was killed by them, and/or the authorities are not doing an adequate job because of how powerful those other people are, then it could be very very useful to have such information and testimony.

Unless seen from the point of view where the authorities are just so extremely corrupt that there was never any hope of proper information extraction from him, in which case it doesn’t matter because it’d be “trumped” by that larger problem.

flutherother's avatar

If he wasn’t on suicide watch you.have to ask why not especially as he tried to kill himself just last month.

seawulf575's avatar

I am sort of with @elbanditoroso that he was not a suicide. We disagree as to who was behind it, though. If Trump was behind it, he wouldn’t be so gung-ho to find out what really happened…he would be pushing the suicide story in the hopes the whole thing would go away. I think the situation here is that Epstein’s case was starting to open up a whole big can of worms. If Epstein dies, there is no case and no further reason to go on looking at the evidence. I believe THAT is why Epstein had to die. His testimony was nothing…him rolling over on someone was nothing. But the witnesses had already implicated Alan Dershowitz, Bill Richardson, and Prince Andrew. They all deny the testimony and right now it is a he said/she said. If there was actual physical evidence in the form or records or memoranda or emails that came out, there would be something physical to hang on people. And that was about to happen. So in an effort to stop the case and the release of evidence, Epstein has to die.

jca2's avatar

News said there will still be civil suits which means that the investigation will go forward. Plus news agencies like The New York Times will investigate for the story. It is going to be very interesting to see what comes out.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 I’m sure there will be civil suits, but I believe, as we have seen in the past, either the people will back out of the suits, the judges will toss the case on some technicality, or the person (or their family) will have an “accident”. As for the NYT, I’m pretty sure they will not report on anything that implicates a Democrat. This needs story needs to pull the curtain back and expose the worms for who they are, regardless of party affiliation or social status. If it were to prove wrongdoing by Trump or Clinton or Prince Andrew or Katie Couric or Bill Barr or Kevin Spacey….it needs to be brought to the front. It is far past time to hold our elected officials and social leaders accountable for their horrid behavior.

Dutchess_III's avatar

The only reason I can think of for having him killed is because he knew things that only he alone knew…but then that makes no sense. 1) If he alone knew it how did someone else know he knew it? 2) Every horrible thing he’s done when it comes to sex he surely bragged about, else what’s the point?

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . Here we are, in agreement again. Fuck….

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Scary and annoying, isn’t it? ;-)

MrGrimm888's avatar

Yes. But it really just means, that we aren’t both idiots. Or… That we are both morons….:)

Zaku's avatar

@Dutchess_III “The only reason I can think of for having him killed is because he knew things that only he alone knew…but then that makes no sense.”
The reason to have him killed is because he’s potentially a very credible witness with extensive information of many high-status & powerful people’s crimes and/or pedophilia, including that he blackmailed people.

“1) If he alone knew it how did someone else know he knew it?”
You’re reasoning from a false premise. Of course he’s not the only one who knew about things he did. He’s just likely the most credible person who probably knows the most about all the things he was involved in.

Clearly, everyone he was involved with in these activities, and the people who protect those people from public exposure, know about it.

There are people who have even filed suit and reported in detail about Epstein and Trump arguing about who got to rape underaged girls first. “Case dismissed.”

Powerful white men somehow seem to all too often avoid testimony from victims that they raped people…

MrGrimm888's avatar

Well. It’s about what you can prove. Personal testimony, is essential to getting another person convicted, This guy, apparently, knew a lot of powerful people. Any one of those powerful people, could have pressured him to commit suicide. We’ll probably never know who…..

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575: NY TIMES has done scathing and detailed exposes on prominent Dems including celebrities so not sure why you’d think this one will be different.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 Oh, I don’t know….maybe because they just got bullied into changing a story by the Dems because it originally showed Trump did a good thing? They have shown their journalistic integrity is suspect. Especially coming up on an election year.

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575-can you back up your comment with a link to a legit news site?

Dutchess_III's avatar

^^^ Hint. No.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/new-york-times-headline-change-mob-lost-its-mind-dan-gainor

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/aug/06/new-york-times-front-page-headline-changed

https://www.rt.com/usa/465918-nyt-headline-mass-shooting/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/news/nyt-changes-headline-after-far-left-backlash/vi-AAFrcoJ

It was pretty astounding. When Trump made his speech, he called for unity and an end to the hate and racism. That was what the NYT put on as a headline…until the Dems went nuts. Then they changed it to “assailing hate but not guns” That enables the Dems to have a talking point against Trump instead of Trump getting credit for his words. So yeah, when the NYT caves after one day of blowback from the Dems, their journalistic integrity is gone.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Post from reputable sites please. Foxnews is not it, nor is the guardian or rt,com and I don’t quite trust msn.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III wasn’t it you that said you never attacked sources? That you supported sources from both sides of the political spectrum? But in the end, it doesn’t matter. You aren’t attacking the facts, you are hiding behind attacking sources without a spec of truth to back you up.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I never said I never attack sources. I simply disregard news from less than reputable sites. There is a difference. (Again, goes back to reading comprehension.)

seawulf575's avatar

No, but we had this same discussion many, many times. So I’m just using your previously spouted garbage to hold you accountable to it. But as I noted at the time, you were lying.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Let me give you an example: This is the kind of site I would disregard. I would not accept any claim they made unless it could be proven.

Not sure what previous garbage and lies you are referring to.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

I just saw a preview from the Washington Post that said the jail was under staffed and the two men specifically assigned to that block were on substantial overtime.
I can’t read the articles but it tells me no one was assigned specifically to Epstein and the guards were over worked and tired. How long would it take for hanging yourself to kill you? 10 minutes? For example if some one had a bathroom emergency but no one could cover for him, it could be done in that time.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . If you recall, I supported Trump’s speech. However, he has been back to normal since. I’m still giving him a chance to change. But he has, unfortunately, fallen back to his old self…. His Tweets, and rhetoric, need to be addressed. He apparently, cannot comprehend that what he is saying, is actually adding to the problems. I again concede, that the left isn’t much better. But He, is the man in charge. He needs to change his rhetoric, immediately.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Who is managing this house? As in, a family of 5 kids has a mom and dad on crack, ..which of the 5 kids is taking charge of this house?

MrGrimm888's avatar

The cream rises. Whomever is the strongest, will.adapt, and help the others. My Mother, practically raised her 5 younger siblings. Even though she was just a child too. But, she rose to the occasion. She still deals with my issues, and my father’s. She’s one of the most powerful people who I know…

Dutchess_III's avatar

Caught a blurb on the radio today. Apparently the only rule the officers had was to look in on him every 30 minutes so…how long does it take to die when you hang yourself?
OTOH, how was it he had something in his cell that would allow him to hang himself? But, as much as we would hate to admit it, I have a feeling he was quite intelligent so he could have figured out a way.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Dutch. Like I’ve said before, you do, what you can do. You are one of the strongest people, I know. You can only control, what you can…

Dutchess_III's avatar

Ok. I appreciate that. But why did you say that @MrGrimm888?

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III The previous spouted garbage you went on about how you hold ALL jellies to the standard of using citations to support their claims (which you don’t do) and that you call out biased citations on the left and the right (which you don’t do). Now you are trying to back-track on your previous attack. You are now trying to say that you would discount some site called “gritpost”. Yet you just discounted both Fox AND MSN. Why? Because you didn’t want to actually deal with the facts so you attack the source. So now you are a hypocrite to go along with being a liar.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What does any of that have to do with me not accepting every citation as valid? It’s my choice.
You’re acting all crazy. Did your ego get bruised recently or something?

seawulf575's avatar

Nah…I just have a low tolerance for hypocrisy and lies.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, OK. Now that you’ve derailed the thread with your butt hurt hysteria, I don’t trust Fox because they’re idiots. I don’t trust MSN because I think they write their articles in such a way as to persuade people. I just want the facts. I can make up my own mind.

This chart sums it all up nicely.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III and yet you still have not addressed the substance of the citations I gave. All you did was dodge and evade. Typical. And then you blame me for the derailed thread. I’ve come to the conclusion that whenever a liberal says something about someone, they are, in fact, telling everyone what they, themselves are doing. When you say I derail the thread, it was actually you. When the media says Trump is lying, it is they who are actually altering facts. I’m finding that to be a very accurate yard stick to gauge liberal attacks.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Dutch. I’m afraid I need more clarity, to properly respond your query.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Here you said, ”Like I’ve said before, you do, what you can do. You are one of the strongest people, I know. You can only control, what you can…” and I appreciate it. But I don’t know why you said it.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I still need more clarity, to genuinely reply….

Response moderated (Spam)
MrGrimm888's avatar

Dutch. You cannot control the world around you. Being a good person, makes a difference, but it can only do so much. I wager , that you positively affect thor around you.

Let me put it this way. You can lead a horse to water, but can’t make it drink.

In other words, your wisdom, and power, can only have the effect you desire, if that person is willing to change.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Suicide is smarter than the average person!!! His first attempt was set up to appear that some of the inmates had tried to kill him. That way when he finally succeeded, it would appear that the inmates succeeded!!! The coroner announced today that it was suicide by hanging. So, the official answer is suicide. From what I’ve read, the facility had twice as many prisoners as it was supposed to have & half the number of guards. I’m sure the guards were lax in their duties as I’m sure that they found him disgusting. Rich or not, he was just another body to keep inside those walls. IF he had been poor with no trmup connections, nobody would care & be asking about how it happened…except maybe family & this guy had none!!!

MrGrimm888's avatar

Well. I would opine, that falsifying an autopsy, would be easier, than having a person murdered in prison…. Money/power, can do all kinds of things…

I personally think he was murdered. He probably had hidden camera footage, on lots of powerful people. The suspect list, could be very large. I have zero confidence, that anything incriminating, will show up… There are simply too many powerful people, who could have played a role in this.

At least, that fucker is dead. That’s probably the only “justice,” we’ll ever see, from this case…

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I would agree with you on that. Dammit. We agree again. I saw an interview with a forensic pathologist who saw some of the “leaked” information from the coroner’s report. Now, again, why are there leaks? And only a little of the information? And who is leaking it and why? So the leaked information is questionable. But this guy said that the hyoid bone and one of the vertebrae were cracked or broken. They found Epstein on his knees with a sheet tied to his bed frame and him leaning forward. According to this pathologist, that sort of position would not have exerted enough force to break these bones, unless there was severe osteoporosis or some other bone deformity. If he tied off on the ceiling and jumped off the top bunk he might have been able to break these bones. But jumping off the top bunk was not consistent with his position when he was found.
So I agree with your conclusion…that he was probably murdered and that no one will be brought to justice for it. As you said…too many powerful people involved.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@MrGrimm888, you lost me at “falsifying an autopsy….” the autopsy strongly suggests he was murdered, so what was falsified about it?

chyna's avatar

@Dutchess_III This morning the Medical Examiner is saying it was suicide. Epstein’s attorney’s are fighting this claim. They believe he was murdered.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Oh. I missed that. I haven’t looked at the news today.

Dutchess_III's avatar

OK. I’m updated. Now I guess we hurry up and wait. The hyoid bone can break in both suicide by hanging, or murder by strangulation.
If I was going to commit suicide by hanging I’d be studying for a long time on how to get it down very quickly and cleanly….with force.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III I guess if I was going to commit suicide I would want it to be quick as well. And if I as going to hang myself, I’d use as much force as possible. But that was not the position they say they found him in.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What position did they find him in?

MrGrimm888's avatar

Goddammit @seaewulf575 .
We are again in agreement.

“Some body” killed this bastard…. To cover their own misdeeds…

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III according to what I heard on the radio, he had a sheet tied to the bed frame and he was on his knees, leaning forward with the sheet choking him. Now, again, this is supposedly from a “leak” in the coroner’s office so take it for what it is.

MrGrimm888's avatar

He had broken bones, in his neck. That’s difficult ((not impossible ) to do to yourself. Somebody killed him. IMO…...

LadyMarissa's avatar

Either way, I was expecting it. I didn’t want my tax dollar spent housing him & now I don’t want my tax dollar spent deciding who killed him. He died & I’m glad he’s gone. It also means that trump can’t pardon him!!!

seawulf575's avatar

@LadyMarissa Except if he was murdered, it was likely as part of a cover up. That means there is someone out there that was equally as depraved as Epstein and he (she) is still loose and committing atrocities.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I would really appreciate a link to what you supposedly read about a sheet tied to a bed frame and he strangled himself just by leaning forward. If you believe that, you are the most gullible person on the planet.

SEKA's avatar

As bent as Epstein was, has anybody considered that maybe he was playing the orgasm by hanging game and it backfired?

SEKA's avatar

why does that not surprise me?

Dutchess_lll's avatar

I have no idea why you would even go there with no evidence. Was he sans pants? Was his penis hanging out?

LadyMarissa's avatar

@seawulf575 I know he was murdered & that changes NOTHING that I said. Only thing is that I know who had him murdered & I know why they had him murdered. I also know that it was covered so deep that even IF Epstein had lived, you wouldn’t have learned the truth because you can’t handle the truth!!!

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