General Question

Yellowdog's avatar

Why do people on the left incessantly refer to Latinos and Hispanic Americans as "brown people"?

Asked by Yellowdog (8291points) 1 month ago

I read over and over and over ad nauseam that Trump Supporters don’t want “brown people”. And they call us racist, when they are the ones coming up with labels and categories such as this.

Most Hispanics are very Caucasian, and we identify them as such. There are those who are classified as “Mestizo” which means they have Native American features / ancestry. But we do not consider Hispanic a race.

Most Americans whose families have been here more than 75 years have at least some Native Americans in their history. And probably some Latino as well.

Seriously, no one on the right categorizes race this way, or considers race a part of Latino culture.

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131 Answers

elbanditoroso's avatar

Wow, if that isn’t a troll question, I can’t imagine what one looks like.

ragingloli's avatar

“Seriously, no one on the right categorizes race this way, or considers race a part of Latino culture.”

Is that so?
https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1287668/
“I’ve met many people that are of Spanish descent who at face value look like ordinary whites and, more importantly, act like whites.

I’m wondering if the Hispanics in states like TX, NM and AZ etc. are mostly whites of Hispanic descent or if they are the dirty mud types i.e. dark, short and stupid?”

I don’t know about those states, but out here in Mexifornia they are 100% brown slime.

stanleybmanly's avatar

It’s easier to say and more comprehensive than “non-white” or “people of color”. Moreover, those same brown people have no trouble with the designation and are in the main decidedly “people on the left”. And if you are proposing that conservatives view people of Latino heritage equivalent to good ol white Americans—well you’re welcome to ask a few of those brown people for their perceptions at your own risk!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I don’t even know how to respond to you anymore, you never post a link backing any of your claims,I never noticed any of the stuff your complaining about till your orange haired god came to power.
And you still claim the left is the racist, hateful side?
Like your other extreme fellow right winger blew off the Trump’s gaffe about airports in 1776 , but had a hissy fit over a miss spelled word I did, yeah your totally right your side is all tolerance, understanding and just pure love.

Demosthenes's avatar

I’m not a fan of it myself. Not all Latin Americans are “brown”, especially when you look at places like Argentina and Chile. Many are just as white as “white people”, but they’re considered “brown” because their surname ends in ”-ez”? I get the convenience of the label, but it’s certainly not always accurate.

canidmajor's avatar

OMG, why do people on the right incessantly refer to Caucasian’s as “white”? Most Causasians are beige!

Yellowdog's avatar

@elbanditoroso Calling Hispanics “brown people” is trolling. Or claiming someone else says this when they don’t, is trolling, or flame bait. Asking about the practice is not.

@ragingloli Stormfront is a staunch racist website. Not exactly a source for what you are saying the political right is saying.

@SQUEEKY2 I find it hard to believe you haven’t seen the Left using this term, and/or attributing it to the right, who never use it.

Most of us live, work, and associate with people of many ethnicities and who themselves have many ethnicities in their make-up, every day. The left keeps coming up with these categories, and then attributing them to the right, who never use these kinds of labels.

Zaku's avatar

Seems to me it’s because they are fed up with all the racist behavior, and are calling it what it is. It’s not that they think of people as “brown-colored”, it’s what the racists demonstrate their attitudes boil down to.

i.e. It is clear that the “build a wall” MAGA crap has at its core attitudes that boil down to racists wishing America was all-white.

tinyfaery's avatar

I’m 45, and as long as I can remember people from Mexico, Central America, and South America have been referred to as brown people, even though the label doesn’t always fit. Depending on where you are from in Mexico, for instance, someone could be blond and blue eyed, with very light skin. Those people often pass as white and do not experience a lot of the same discrimination as darker people. And funnily enough, even in the places I mentioned above, the lighter skinned people are considered higher class and often have more opportunities than darker skinned people.

ragingloli's avatar

@Yellowdog
Stormfront is a staunch right-wing website. They are your people.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Because the Left is trying to start a race war to win an election. I have never had so much racism foisted on me in my life than the last few years and it certainly wasn’t by Trump.

Yellowdog's avatar

So you’re saying that all non-Baltic people are brown?
Most high-class, blue-eyed blond-haired people are very liberal, like Elizabeth Warren, when you can find them.

I forget now who I was responding to,

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Yellowdog's avatar

@ragingloli I’ve started to like what you’ve said about other topics, so I don’t understand why you can’t be serious or civil about this one, without the usual name calling.

Stormfront is a very distinct kind of anti-Jewish alt-right culture that used to be squarely within the mindset of the Democrats, or Dixiecrats, as they were in the civil-rights era. Only when these types started to become marginalized by the South becoming less racist did the Republican party become predominate in the South.

Yellowdog's avatar

Stormfront resembles the old Dixiecrats, but the political left, while still affixated on race, has moved away from what groups like Stormfront stands for. That has left them with the political right due to the illegal immigrant and anti globalist issues mostly.

ragingloli's avatar

I am very civil right now. You have not seen me “uncivil” yet, human.
Frankly, more civil than your question and responses filled with lies, distortions, historical revisionism and fantasies deserves.

Demosthenes's avatar

And again with the pointless “Democrats used to be racist” argument…

Why do Republicans fall back on this bullshit so much? It’s like the only argument they have and it’s completely worthless.

zenvelo's avatar

Well, it was George HW Bush that called his grandkids brown ones. I guess @Yellowdog consideres him to hae been a leftist.

The use of the term “brown” as a racial characterization goes back hundreds of years to distinguish some minorities from black people.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Yellowdog These folks didn’t grow up on Sesame Street, and it shows. :)

Yellowdog's avatar

@ragingloli I am not saying the Democrats say these things today.

What I am saying is, if you look at the history of the Democrat party, if you go to a University Library’s rare books and archives collection in cities like Atlanta, Memphis, or Birmingham, you will see that the Democrats / Dixiecrats in the South at least are the origins of the culture that groups like Stormfront began.

I found this atmosphere to be very oppressive to work in, even though I love history.

The groups kind of abandoned each other decades ago. In any case, that’s no reflection on the totally dissimilar Republicans, who never even had a foothold here when the Democrats were in power.

My original question is, why do Leftists use this term (and, if you will, attribute it to others)—when the Latinos are Caucasian and all of us grew up freely associating with other cultures?

Yellowdog's avatar

@zenvelo Well, I could see calling African Americans as Black people because that’s what thy’ve always been called, and call themselves. Or “Brown People” because that’s the best description of their pigmentation, But it doesn’t describe Latinos very well.

In any case, you answered the question very well. Thanks.

ragingloli's avatar

”(and, if you will, attribute it to others)”
Attribute it to others? Right wingers USE that term.
And they use terms worse than that. Like “dirty mud types”, and “brown slime”. Directly quoted from right wingers.
The Democrats were racists once, yes. Then the racists had an exodus and switched over to the Republicans, and that is why they became more popular in the south. The south did not become “less racist”.

Yellowdog's avatar

Okay I get it—the current political left didn’t invent the term.
Thank you. Good answer.

But the Left is still using it very often now.

@ragingoli The South is not racist, There have been blacks and other races in prominent political educational, social, and business positions for many decades—at least since the early 1970s. The Democrats (sorry, but I’m talking historic ones) kept the schools segregated and society itself segregated up until about that time. None of these racist policies or social norms have been acceptable in my lifetime.

JLeslie's avatar

I just asked my husband about being called “brown” a few weeks ago. I couldn’t remember hearing that term at all when I was growing up. Personally, I don’t like it, but I think it’s partly because I’m still not accustomed to it. It’s very uncomfortable to me when I hear it. I’m just in the last few years getting used to using Hispanic.

Almost ironically, people get really offended that Washington’s pro football is still the Redskins, and most white liberals use the term African American over using black, but they are constantly saying brown.

So, my husband replies to my question by saying, “the first time I remember hearing the term brown was an article that was talked about the browning of America.” I remember that article, or at least the discussion about the idea. Even then I didn’t think of it in terms of calling people brown. I would never think to call Asians yellow, Native Americans red, although I do use black and white as descriptors.

My husband then told me the story of overhearing an exgirlfriend tell her dad she it was the first time she was in a mixed race relationship. He was shocked to hear that.

I think the left truly believes a large portion of Republicans, and Trump, are racist, and so they use the term brown to group together people from varying parts of the world who they think are being discriminated against. I think many liberals are very fearful of this perceived hate, and when I say perceived, I think some of the fear is very legitimate, but then also some of it is probably unfair. There is some scary shit going on in the country, there is no getting around it.

Brown encompasses not only Latin Americans, but also West Asians.

@tinyfaery That’s interesting to me that you have always heard that term.

cookieman's avatar

I think we can all admit that the whole color designation for folks based on nationality or race is largely inaccurate and, frankly, silly.

caucasian > white
asian > yellow
native american > red
hispanic > brown
african > black

I mean, if you’ve ever met, I don’t know, ANYBODY EVER, and had any common sense, you could figure out this is just visual shorthand.

How you choose to characterize and treat a people in general, with or without the color coding, is where the racism is or is not.

To say otherwise is just making hay.

JLeslie's avatar

Maybe this is it. 1990 article in Time Magazine about The Browning of America. http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,969805,00.html My husband was in the US then. Senior year of college. We both graduated June 1990 I think.

Demosthenes's avatar

@JLeslie Obviously since I wasn’t alive then, I don’t remember that article, but the “browning of America” context is one of the first places I recall hearing the term “brown” as well, usually used negatively (like “the browning” is something to fear, an apocalyptic event for whites who are being “replaced”), but not always: sometimes stated as a neutral fact, that America is getting “browner” and it’s just the way it is.

(I’ve also heard the term “brown people” used to refer to South Asians, i.e. people from India or Pakistan.)

And I will say that, nowadays, I hear “brown” mostly in the context of “so-and-so hates brown people” as an explanation for a specific policy, i.e. that the target of a policy isn’t illegal immigrants, it’s brown people. The term seems opportunistic and an attempt to characterize something as racist when it may not be. That’s what I think the OP is getting at.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Right, South Asia too.

I remember when I first heard the phrase thinking it made sense, because darker features are generally dominant, so I thought over time having blue eyes and blond hair would be more rare, or if black and white people had babies then their skin would likely be darker, meaning not as white as mine. I didn’t think of it so much in terms of nationalities, but I thought about my own recessive traits. I have blue eyes and very pale skin. I hadn’t read the article, I just had heard some references to it, maybe in the news, and light discussion.

For me it was more of a scientific discussion about genetics than any sort of cultural commentary.

At that time brown just meant darker than me to me. It didn’t mean a part of the world. My world was diverse. I grew up in a very diverse place. My America.

seawulf575's avatar

Why do people on the left categorize people by color? Because they are racists.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And those on the right are intractably stupid. So what’s to be done?

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . That could be the worst response, I’ve ever heard from you.

@Yellowdog . When I say brown people, I mean non-white. It’s a blanket term, and I agree, it’s not racially sensitive. But, whether or not you realize it, the right has a crystal clear problem, with non-whites, in the US. It spills through almost every comment you all make. Like candlelight, from paper bag.

It cannot be hidden, and denial/deflection, does not help.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I don’t even say ‘brown people’, you just admitted you do.
And you know it’s not racially sensitive.
So why do YOU do it?

Pot meet kettle.

elbanditoroso's avatar

You realize, guys, that this whole conversation is right out of the Trump Deflection Handbook. Trump does it himself, successfully.

When someone calls him racist, he calls them (the so-called squad, John Lewis, Al Sharpton, Kamala Harris, etc.) racist back, to deflect. It’s a childish gam – if you call attention to something else (e.g.deflect), it takes the heat off of you.

So that’s what is going on here. The right wing cadre is called racist for its views, and they snap back and call everyone else out and call them racist.

This is right out of the Right Wing playbook.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@KNOWITALL . Sorry. Not that simple.

It’s just rhetoric. I have continuously used the term “non-white/non-Christian,” to describe the same people. I haven’t heard any feed back from that terminology… So, I can again infer, from the wording of the right’s rhetoric, that they don’t have a problem with that. Just more evidence, proving “my” case….

KNOWITALL's avatar

@elbanditoroso Being against illegal immigration doesn’t make you a racist. Ya’ll need to get that thru your heads.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 The only people I have ever heard use the term “brown people” are those on the left. It is extremely racist to divide people by their skin color. So how else would you categorize their obsession with skin color? I have made very succinct comments about legal vs illegal immigration. None of my comments have involved race at all. And yet…what is the response I get from the left? That I hate “brown people”. So, if they try to turn every conversation to race, and they use terms like “brown people”....they are racists.

seawulf575's avatar

@elbanditoroso and projectionism is straight out of the Liberal Playbook. Accuse your opponent of the things you do and then claim they are deflecting when they deny.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@KNOWITALL .Wrong again. Trump, and his followers, don’t care about the northern border, or the illegal immigrants from there. Why could that be? Because they aren’t “brown.”

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 you are obsessed with the northern border. You are a fool. How many millions of illegal immigrants have come across our northern border? Probably not even one million. Probably in the hundreds or thousands at most. Yet millions pour across the southern border. When you have limited resources to deal with a problem, how do you deal with it? The rules concerning illegal immigration apply universally, yet trying to plug the holes would be done at the point where the most people are coming from. The skin color has absolutely nothing to do with it. But thanks for making my point for me….you immediately try to make it about race.

AlaskaTundrea's avatar

I’ll echo way back to the first response, Yellow Dog, you do troll with the best of ‘em. Not going to fall for your efforts tho’ other than to say, nice try. Doesn’t change a thing other than deflecting attention away from the real issues for a mere few minutes.

seawulf575's avatar

@AlaskaTundrea actually, this is at the heart of the real issues. The left makes everything about race. That is very divisive and it infects every other issue. Take a look back and see how CNN or WaPo or NYT or MSNBC deal with just about everything….they make it about race.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Since those brown people themselves are on the left, and display not the least hostility to the reference, you might think those complaining about the reference might muster the smarts to ask themselves “why?” Here we have a CONSERVATIVE complaining that those on the receiving end of the conservative whip are the racists. It’s brown people and their allies fomenting racism.
It’s almost too stupid to be believed!!!!

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 Unbelievable denial.

@MrGrimm888 Because people LEAVE to go north, who wants to stop them? I posted a whole thing about the Canadian border and the issues they’re having. Do you people not remember any previous discussions, with sources?

@stanleybmanly Not all people of color are on the Left. We just discussed the El Paso ‘smiling Trump’ picture with the uncle who adores Trump. Remember, ya’ll tried to paint a very different picture until I posted the quote by the uncle?

seawulf575's avatar

@KNOWITALL there you go again…trying to inject reality into the conversation!

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly so now you are trying to justify being a racist by saying the people you are categorizing by skin color don’t complain? REALLY??? Did you ask them? Have any of your racist journalists dare to ask that question? Here’s a clue…no.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 It’s exhausting rehashing everything over and over.

stanleybmanly's avatar

You poor poor man. Edit your latest post while there is still time.

kritiper's avatar

They ain’t black and they ain’t white. They ain’t red and they ain’t yellow. What color should they be called except brown??? And the color description of anyone doesn’t mean they ain’t human…

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly what…and let you off the hook? You dug this hole. You can keep digging (as you usually do) because we all know you will not (and cannot) actually show any proof of your garbage statements. So your overall racist tendencies carry the day.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And you @KNOWITALL Of course not 100% of the people of color are on the left, and not ALL conservatives are stupid. But your allies here drive me to distraction. The dummy above has just told me that brown people don’t complain about the reference to being brown because journalists haven’t asked their opinion. Do you suppose he is living in the same place that we are talking about? Do you think those same people are told by the press to bitch about racism? Are they imagining the phenomenon?

seawulf575's avatar

@kritiper There is much truth in that. But there are some slight differences. If I am describing a specific person I might say “he’s the black guy over there” if there is only one black guy and it is a descriptive term. But oddly, I have NEVER referred to a latino as a “brown person”. I have referred to them as Latino or Hispanic.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly Then let me continue to drive you further into distraction. Because your reading comprehension sucks. YOU made this comment:
“Since those brown people themselves are on the left, and display not the least hostility to the reference, you might think those complaining about the reference might muster the smarts to ask themselves “why?” ”
@KNOWITALL clocked you on your bullshit claim that the “brown people” are on the left. I called you out on the claim that they don’t mind that term. I challenged you on how you came to this knowledge….if you specifically asked them or maybe one of your journalistic idiots did it. And now you are trying to say I said they don’t mind that term because journalists haven’t asked them. Typical liberal dodge. Try to change the wording so you can make it look like someone else committed your sin. So please…get back to the original question…how do you know that Latinos don’t mind being called “brown people”? After all…you fools on the left ARE the ones that use that term pretty much exclusively.

MrGrimm888's avatar

It is actually the diversity of “non-whites,” that is why I describe them in this manner. It’s simple, to derive the desire, for many on the right, to describe them, in this way. The right, has made it clear, they want a white/Christian America. Anything else, is an “invasion.”

It’s simple observation. If the “left” is SO racist, why do we want to help them?

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 Because you moron, they refer to themselves as brown people CONSTANTLY just as assuredly as African Americans are black, and for exactly the same reasons. I don’t understand how you have the sense to fall out of bed in the mornings. It is brown people who call themselves brown people, and if you were living among them you might have noticed.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly continuing to make the same claim doesn’t establish proof of that claim. Please…come up with proof of your claim or just admit you are making it up. One of the two. AND, given your reasoning, why is it wrong to say nigger? After all, blacks call each other that so it should be all right, eh? You see the error of you logic? What am I asking…of course you don’t.

stanleybmanly's avatar

What I see is considerably more disturbing than any possible error in MY logic. It is impossible to believe you a resident of this country unaware of the fact that the words black and nigger are not interchangeable.

cookieman's avatar

^^ Depends on which side of the Mason-Dixon you’re on (plus New Hampshire).

stanleybmanly's avatar

No it doesn’t. All that is required is to turn on your tv and witness some poor soul or another being interviewed on their treatment at the border. Y

KNOWITALL's avatar

I’m having a delicious Modelo Gold in a bottle, fella’s. Dont have too much fun.

@seawulf Mexican beer ha! Best time of my life down there during Hurricane Ivan. Last plane to Cancun. Sounds like a country song!

tinyfaery's avatar

@JLeslie I’ve heard it all my life because I grew up in the barrios of Los Angeles, and I am the daughter of a brown person (He is actually brown, but I am very pink.). I always figured that the term was used to signify a large population of people that were neither white or black, and since a lot of Latinos/Hispanics are of a brown color, it fit.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So is calling brown people brown, racist?
Our extreme right wingers seem to think so, and that matters because heaven forbid we don’t want to offend them.
While they the right wingers can call us lefties dumb, hateful,uncomprehending but of course that is just out of love.
Now yet these peace loving right wingers are saying they are not the ones bringing divisiveness to your country it’s the left, and anything the left does to prove that isn’t true the right just scream fake news and the left is all about hate.
What is the right trying to do prove the left is just as hateful as them, and the left should embrace give everything to the rich because trickle down works so well?

raum's avatar

Context matters.

kritiper's avatar

@seawulf575 You don’t have to identify people by their skin color, but you can identify them by their sex and the clothes they wear. Using the color of one’s skin to identify out of a group of others is racist.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

My dating site has a preferred Caucasian non Hispanic choice. I don’t know if it is racist or not. At least it is kind of creepy.

JLeslie's avatar

@tinyfaery I realize you grew up in an area with a lot of people who are Mexican, and maybe other parts of the world and Latin America, but I grew up in a place that was extremely diverse, and I never heard it, so I just found it interesting. We had the whole world where I lived, Iranian, black, Latin America, all parts of Asia, All parts of Europe, I even had a friend from Iceland, basically the whole world.

Where you lived did you use the term “brown people” among yourselves? Or, “white people” used the term? I don’t think my husband would ever describe himself as brown. I know my ex-boyfriend never would, his family was from Ecuador.

kritiper's avatar

Excellent point, @JLeslie .

Pinguidchance's avatar

What if we were all brown deep down and a tad eukaryotic?

MrGrimm888's avatar

Well. When you ban billions of people who are “brown,” from even visiting our country…Does is not follow the logic, of being anti-“brown?”

They need to be deported. They need not even try legal immigration. They live in “shot hole countries.”

My god. What more evidence of intolerance of people who aren’t white, do you need? If you don’t see a direct correlation, you are are fool, or being deliberately obtuse, to excuse the logic. Some right-wingers, on this site, need to get real. The gloves, and masks, are off. The objective, is crystal clear….

stanleybmanly's avatar

@Yellowdog I just read your description of your perceptions on the way things work from the right. Honest to God, the ability of people to deceive themselves is apparently limitless. I have 2 words for you when it comes to right wing acceptance of ethnic differences. In fact, I have a great many more than 2, but let’s begin with white supremacist. Where on the left would you place one of them? And the terms Wetback, Beaner, Spic, Mezcan—you know the list; where did those terms originate? Would you think those monickers reflective of left wing sensibilities? The politically correct instinct to drop such derogatory words from public conversation is to my mind a relatively recent fad. But I have literal memories of all of those words bandied about without so much as the blink of an eye, even on the public airwaves. Brown people are accepting of the term brown people for exactly the same reason descendants of slaves accept the adjective “black”. Black and brown people revel in those terms, because the days when white folks used black, brown, yellow or red as terms of derision are gone. In other words black or brown—one’s ethnicity is no longer something to be ashamed of. It is stupefying that you and seawulf COMPLETELY fail to appreciate this.

MrGrimm888's avatar

They don’t like it, because it brings up factual thoughts, of theirs. They can bring the subject up ALL day on Fluther, but when they look on the mirror, THEY KNOW THE TRUTH.

But they are cowards. And they don’t want to be perceived as they truly are. They have no problem anonymously voting for their desires. But they don’t want anyone to know, who they really are. Instead of introspective thought, it’s easier to deflect their ideology…

seawulf575's avatar

@kritiper If there a group of men standing together, all are wearing jeans, similar color clothing, no distinctive tats, no hats, no real immediate distinguishing differences except one is black, the skin color becomes the most expedient feature to use to distinguish him. On the flip-side of that, if there is one alone, black is not the most expedient. Even if there are two together, or even three, using their relative positions is, to me, the easiest and most natural way to distinguish (the guy on the left, e.g.).

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly “It is impossible to believe you a resident of this country unaware of the fact that the words black and nigger are not interchangeable.”

Here we go again! You present your opinion and say it is a fact. Here’s how it is a fact…there are individuals that still refer to blacks as niggers. There are relatively very few non-black people that call black people niggers. VERY few. There will always be some die hards, I get that, but it is socially unacceptable. In fact, I surprised we haven’t been moderated for using that term here. However, you present your “fact” like it is extremely commonplace. And even @cookieman made a comment about the Mason-Dixon line which isn’t even very accurate. I have lived all around this country…In Ohio, in Illinois, in Florida, in Georgia, in Idaho, in California…and have never lived anywhere that had that term being used freely and frequently. Most I never heard it. In GA, back in the 70’s I heard it a few times. But that was 45 years ago. But even then, it wasn’t as commonplace as you like to make it. So please, enlighten us all with your vast knowledge…show me the facts baby!

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 And there YOU go again! You pretend to know how conservatives think. You attribute your own perceptions as their reality and then go off on a tangent. You talk about us not knowing the TRUTH. Yet you have entirely ignored the fact that it is the left that uses the term “brown people”. You have ignored the fact that it is the left that makes everything about race. You have even done this as well. These things point to the left being racists. No one has actually disputed that opinion here. I have been attacked for making it, but no one has actually been able to dispute the logic involved with that statement. AND, my statement about the left using projectionism seems to have gone unchallenged as well. And your last response just really cements it. The left focuses fully on race and uses terms to ensure races are divided. That is racist. Yet the left immediately accuses the right of being the racists with really no basis for that claim. And you just did it again. And you try making it more pronounced by calling it facts and truth, but in the end, it is the opinion of a liberal. And it is the liberals…the left…that have exhibited the racist tendencies.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 This is the definition of racist. “a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.”

You seem to be using the word racist to mean that pointing out people’s race is racist, and that is NOT the definition of racist or racism.

I think that’s why you are having so much trouble on Q’s, you are using the word racist incorrectly.

It’s similar to the Christians who use the word cult to describe Mormons. Those particular Christians use a definition of cult not in the dictionary (unless it’s been added recently) so the general population has no idea what those Christians are talking about.

The people on the left using the term brown are not saying people with darker skin are superior or inferior. They fear there are people in the country, and many include the president, who do think brown people are inferior. The people who think they are inherently inferior are racist. Do you think they are inferior?

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie You are correct with your definition, but wouldn’t you agree that for a person to discriminate, feel prejudice, or superiority based on race, they would have to first focus on race? And isn’t it true that one of the primary physical traits that identifies separate races is skin color? So when a group seemingly rushes to use skin color, that would be a huge red flag to me that they are likely racists. And as I have pointed out, it is the left that rushes to separate people based on skin color. So I stand by my usage of the word.
As for the part of your statement about there being some in this country that view people with “brown” skin as being inferior, I agree…but I see many of them on the left. They are the ones that are treating them as helpless children. And I agree…that makes them racists. Do I think Latinos are inferior? Not at all. That’s where my view is different from what the lefties on here like to paint. I believe everyone brings something to the table. And it is that belief that gets me so wound up at my leftist counterparts because they seem to be willfully ignorant. And if all they are bringing to a conversation is blind hatred and racism, that is not something I want at my table.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 So, the White Supremacists, who certainly are not on the left, do they think non-whites are inferior?

You are doing the same shit some liberals do. You are saying just because someone points out someone’s race they are racist. Give me a break. Your slippery slope is bullshit. The liberals constantly say diversity makes our country great, and parts of the right are saying we need to preserve “white culture” who sounds racist there?

I always have mixed feelings about separating out groups, because I think the way to be more equal and be more accepted is for people to know each other, but some of it is unavoidable.

The left is not saying treating people as helpless children, they are trying to use the golden rule, and put themselves in their place—empathy. If you think you could never be in the same situation you are the one being racist. What happens if your country begins to really suck, or just your personal economic situation goes really bad for reasons mostly out of your control, and you want a better life? Or, would that never happen? Do you think that is impossible?

Your use of the word racist is incorrect. Why not instead of using the word, describe what you mean so when you argue with people all parties involved are talking about the same thing?

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Where did I say the White Supremacists aren’t racist? Where did I say that all racists are on the left? I didn’t say either of those. But now, let’s talk about actual impact here for a moment. How many actual, affirmed White Supremacists are there? Not a whole lot. How much do they spew their hatred out to the masses? Not a whole lot. There are probably websites you could go to if you wanted to find their idiotic messages…I don’t know because I find them annoying. But now let’s look at the left. They have control of most of the major media outlets and they spew their racial divisiveness 24/7. They do this in an effort to paint any and all conservatives as racists…a claim for which they have zero actual evidence. They are the ones that bring up race most times. Heck, I saw a thing the other day where, after Trump said he was going to keep flags at half mast to honor the fallen at El Paso and Dayton. The left tried turning that statement into a racial thing. I heard some idiot trying to say that Trump wanting to keep the flags at half-mast until August 8th was code to all the white supremacists and neo-Nazis. After all, August 8th is 8–8. The eighth letter of the alphabet is H so that means he was sending out a message of H H which we all know means Heil Hitler. Talk about obsessing! But it was given air time.
I find it funny that you are saying that the left constantly talks about diversity. That argument is full of so much crap it isn’t really funny. First off, the right always talks about wanting legal immigration but is against illegal immigration. And it is the left that doesn’t really care what they say, they want to create a narrative so they say it’s racist. I, myself, have voiced opinions on here that the lefties just say I am lying and go on. They don’t really care what my words are. But the left wants to be taken at their word. So let’s do that. They want diversity…yet have discriminated against conservative students on Universities across the nation. They have tried to make conservative opinions hate speech so they can silence them. They come down on neo-Nazis as being violent extremists yet fully support and fund Antifa who have done far more violent acts. They cheer when some guy wearing a MAGA hat gets jumped and beaten to a pulp by a bunch of lefties and they NEVER denounce that violence. So what is YOUR definition of diversity? Anyone that supports the lefty view?
I have spoken many times about wanting to stop illegal immigration for a huge number of reasons including the harm it poses to those marching here. Yet every lefty I have spoken to on these pages has argued I am racist and don’t mean that and they continue to support a position that keeps putting those people in harms way. So is that empathy? Or is it just possible that you are stuck on your ideological slant? Here is a nice article to maybe bring you back to Earth
https://www.amnestyusa.org/most-dangerous-journey-what-central-american-migrants-face-when-they-try-to-cross-the-border/
How does that fit with your idea of empathy? That you support putting people into this kind of situation?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie I think its wrong that you believe white culture is offensive and every other culture is fine. Its not exclusionary to have an identity.

We are all in the US. I can go almost anywhere, but not every barrio or part of town, I’m not welcome. Here in small town USA, we include everyone of all races, beliefs, genders and lifestyles. Many LOVE it here because of good schools, safety, land and community. Some dont, of course, but some do.

I think you have the generalized Mayberry thats racist in your mental version, but I think of black guys in cowboy hats at the local dive bar, or my openly gay friend out farming his parents land. White culture sounds terrible when you say it, but to me, its accepting and innocent.

@seawulf They see racists like Archie Bunker saw Commies, every corner. Its so weird. We literally had a racist run for office that got like 4 votes in Springfield, MO. He was so crazy he tried to shoot up a Jewish school in Overland Park, and will die in jail. No one here supports that crap. Or maybe four people. Smh

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 I never said Republicans are all WS. Don’t make it sound like I even implied it. I said WS aren’t on the left.

Do you think I’m on the left? I have consistently voiced my opinion against groups like Antifa. My guess is Antifa has much much lower membership and much fewer incidents in the country than WS groups. They are less of a threat, but still threatening. I have argued that left leaning media is being manipulative (and of course right wing media is doing the same) and I have voiced my disgust at the hypocrisy on both sides. Don’t use the word EVERY. It’s one thing when people talk in generalities and it sounds like they are painting a group with one brush, but they know not everyone is the same in a group, but you literally write that you do mean every. Forget it.

You’re wasting my time. I don’t know why I even bother. I’m not trying to debate with you, I was trying to tell you you are defining the word racist incorrectly and that’s bad for communication.

@KNOWITALL I think the term white culture is inflammatory, but that wasn’t really my point with @seawulf575. I was talking about him and others thinking it’s better. I don’t see why we can’t call it American culture and get the inflammatory out of it. If you don’t care what color people are, and I don’t think you do, why not take the word white out?

It seems hypocritical to slam people for using the term brown and then be using the term white. Aren’t both of those things separating people?

Who is bringing in things you don’t like regarding culture, and what are those things? What isn’t white that you are concerned about?

raum's avatar

Color blindness isn’t the absence of racism. Color blindness is the lack of acknowledgement that racism exists.

To say that the color of someone’s skin doesn’t matter to you and you can turn a blind eye to it is privilege. Privilege doesn’t mean that if you’re white you own a home and drive a Tesla.

Privilege means that the color of your skin affords you the luxury of not worrying about skin color. POC don’t get to choose whether or not their skin color affects them.

You’re tired about hearing about racism? They are constantly living it. It’s not just a topic of conversation over dinner.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie But Black Panthers and BLM, etc..is not seperatist? Hmm… I agree its American culture, but I didnt start this racial divide.
Why not take ‘black’ out of those movements? Because its a black issue? That affects just them due to skin color? Obviously.

Not acknowledging white issues is just as racially prejudiced imo, but you are fine taking that and twisting it to a negative, just as some bigots think BLM is uppity blacks. Its not right to do that, imo.

There are issues with Mexicans underbidding jobs. There is some growing gang crime. There is more heroin and drugs, maybe all races can share that.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL All races and ethnicities do share participating in crime. Russian Mafia, Italian mafia, MS13, Irish gangs, KKK, we could go on and on. I had a problem with the black panthers, I have no problem saying that. I do think it is separating out as a group, but it’s a little more complicated than that.

I used to think maybe it was a mistake creating the United Negro College Fund, why not just make a fund for the poor? Why separate out blacks for the help? But, I do understand why minorities want to help their own also, because they have been oppressed and discriminated against, and can feel isolated, and sometimes the majority doesn’t welcome them in, so they create safe places for themselves.

If your country was 80% black, and the blacks had most of the power, and there was a history of blacks not treating you fairly what would you do? Everywhere you go you are the only white person in the room or one of a handful, and you are economically poorer than most of the black people too. The TV and media is mostly black. Day after day in your life always in that situation.

Add to it, what if your first language is different. You move to Japan, and your Japanese is good, but it takes more mental work to speak in your second language. They have some cultural things that are different, but nothing unacceptable to you, but you have to think about it as you learn some of their ways, it isn’t second nature yet. But then, you go to the international club and meet a group of Americans and it feels like home. You can speak your first language, talk about things back in your country, little things.

If the Japanese are discriminating against new immigrants, and constantly referring to Asian culture like it’s being destroyed by you when you know all you want to do is be a part of their country and culture, you might feel it’s unfair.

I guess when whites really are the minority and lose a lot of power and control they will have a legitimate argument, but for now,,they don’t. They aren’t oppressed. They may feel they sometimes are treating unfairly as the country tries to restore balance, but it is nothing like what happens to minorities.

The WS is against all minorities, they cannot do anything to be ok. A black person or a Jewish person can’t just become ok by acting a certain way. Antifa doesn’t hate all white people, they specifically are targeting people who are saying and doing things against their philosophy. I don’t agree with what Antifa does, but they don’t hate someone for just being born.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Great answers there @JLeslie , totally agree.

kritiper's avatar

@JLeslie The first part. I think it was about all kinds of people from all over the world being mistaken for Latino or Hispanic when they aren’t, but are brown.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie So you understand the process of ‘browning’ has began, right?

Cant you acknowledge it could be a painful process for whites? Like losing all good union construction jobs to mexicans?

Not all the jobs they underbid are jobs white people dont want, thats a lie.

Kids are marrying in to other races here, that takes some growth.

Maybe some of these white boys with guns feel different than you or are not adapting as easily as others.

I think not acknowledging reality is a detriment to society. Shutting us down for our feelings and experiences as racist is not okay. You should be supportive, so we can help prevent more acting out from suppression.

Its no more okay for me to say BLM is out of line, or shouldnt exist, or that they cant tell us about fearing police stops and brutality. All people are entitled to their feelings and to communicate them. I’m glad they spoke out, as its wrong and I support Senate Bill 5 for that very reason. Justice.

I’ll be danged if I wont speak up for people who are starting to feel marginalized because ya’ll dont get it. You’d think El Paso could teach us something.

kritiper's avatar

@seawulf575 “Do you see that guy over there? Third guy from the left?” That’s how. Also, “the short guy, third from the left??” Height helps, too. Still no need to describe by skin color. You call him Latino, or Hispanic but how do you know that he isn’t Arabic, or Native American, or Hawaiian?

tinyfaery's avatar

@JLeslie Many of my high school friends referred to themselves as brown, and I was a guera, which roughly translates to white girl or light girl, as in a light skinned female of latino/hispanic descent. And oh yeah did we all use the term white people. My mom was white and my friends always called her a white lady.

johnpowell's avatar

I haven’t read through all this since from what I have skimmed it seems to have veered to a place I don’t have the energy to deal with.

But I am a ultra-lefty and I say brown people and here is how and why I use it. If you look at the context of how I use it it is talking about how the racists see people. Example: “They don’t care about the brown people”. It means that your team sees nothing but “The Other”. No nuance, just they are not like me so they are bad(brown).

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I have never even mentioned the word “Republican” to you so I couldn’t begin to imply you said something about them. Also, I’m not sure what EVERY you were bunched up about. I’ve gone back to re-read my comments and don’t see it. So are you just making stuff up so you can try deflecting from my points?
I also notice you are pulling the typical liberal crap of assigning some belief to me and then trying to slam me for it. Where have I EVER said that white culture was better? I don’t have such a thought even so I know I never said it. I have stated repeatedly that I believe we need to support the laws of this country. That isn’t saying white culture is better. I have stated I believe illegal immigration is wrong. That isn’t saying white culture is better. I have stated that the folks marching here from Central and South America to attempt to enter our country illegally are putting themselves and their families including their children at great risk. That isn’t saying white culture is better. I have stated that there are cheaper and safer ways to enter our country. That isn’t saying white culture is better. I have stated that these same people have been sold a bill of goods by folks encouraged by talk such as yours that it is somehow cheaper and in their best interest to put themselves and their families in danger rather than follow a legal means. That isn’t saying white culture is better. I have chastised folks like you that continue to support a situation that harms tens of thousands of these poor folks. And that isn’t saying white culture is better. So where did you dig that crap up from? I know…it helps you avoid actually dealing with what I DO say to create something you can dislike and then ignore me because of it. Ignore away. But you know I am right and until you actually do some soul searching and start focusing your efforts in the right place, you continue to be part of the problem. But tell yourself you are empathetic….it probably helps.

seawulf575's avatar

I’m seeing a lot of stuff about white privilege popping up as well as ways to ignore common sense things. So I will be asking another question of Fluther…feel free to chime in if you like.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 What the hell are you talking about? It is Impossible for me to believe that you are resident here and believe the 2 words interchangeable. THAT is not an opinion. It is a fact. You brought up the N word and insisted that by my logic the word is interchangeable with black. That’s stupid and bullshit on its face. Then you submit a long diatribe involving your excursions around the country and encounters with the N word, ramble on about the Mason Dixon line, and end with “show me the facts”. What facts? What the hell are you talking about?

MrGrimm888's avatar

I can easily infer, that the rhetoric, from the right, is that they are scared of losing their power, and culture, from the immigrants. It doesn’t take literal spoken language, to see the cultural devide. It pours out.

Again, if left is SO racist. Why does the left support these imagrants? It’s erifuttablle bull shit. It makes the right, sound even more ,clearly wrong. ..

The US will eventually be full of mixed races. That is a good thing, for me. And that’s how the entire world will be, in the next couple hundred years.

Like it, or not, that’s what will happen. NOTHING Trump does, will change that. And will be a better country. Gosh, I’m SO sorry that European culture, will be gone. It will be an upgrade. That’s just a fact. Those on the right, need to get over it….

Demosthenes's avatar

I think we will be a lot more mixed, that’s just unavoidable, but I don’t think European cultures will disappear (and I wouldn’t want them to; in general I don’t like cultures dying out). I don’t even think “replacement anxiety” is founded.

MrGrimm888's avatar

There are links here, as to why there cannot be a 1 state solution, in Israel. The Palestinians, outnumber the Israelis. So. That will not work with a democratic nation, where they will lose power, and control. THAT is the main problem with a one state solution there….

stanleybmanly's avatar

The thing that is missed in this question is that brown people and black people alike embrace their color as nothing to be ashamed of. And that insufferable dumbbell above who insists I can’t prove it, because the media hasn’t polled black or brown folks on the issue should just refrain from dumbfounding us with his ignorance! No, the N word is no longer fashionable. But black or brown folks take no offense at those terms, and it is only conservative dummies who insist that they should. What a crowd of jackasses

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 You wrote They cheer when some guy wearing a MAGA hat gets jumped and beaten to a pulp by a bunch of lefties and they NEVER denounce that violence. That Never is bullshit.

@KNOWITALL I think your point about trying to have some understand for the white people who feel like they are losing something is worth acknowledging. Instead of the left accusing these white people of being upset they are losing power and automatically accusing them of being racist, maybe we need to be able to talk to each other with some more empathy. But, it’s a two way street. Those white people should be able to say they are feeling a crunch when it comes to jobs, and talk about their fears, but they can’t be racist when they do it. I’m not saying they all are, but if their thing is not wanting the country to get browner then that is racist. If they just are worried about immigration in general taking work from Americans that’s something else. Whether immigration actually affects their work situation probably varies by industry. Sometimes immigrants are being blamed for job loss when that’s not really valid, and sometimes it’s probably try that immigrants are hired as cheaper labor.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I actually heard someone blame Trump for the guy with the MAGA hat getting attacked. That isn’t denouncing those that attacked the guy. I heard absolutely NO ONE say that sort of violence is not in line with liberal values. I heard no one say they should be punished as hated criminals. That is what denouncement would look like. And it would not have an addendum of blaming Trump. It would be calling evil, evil. But if you have other knowledge I don’t have, please…tote it out. Otherwise I will stand by my NEVER.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly ” No, the N word is no longer fashionable. But black or brown folks take no offense at those terms, and it is only conservative dummies who insist that they should.” So that is why they cannot even say the “N” word on TV….because of conservatives? That’s why the left calls anyone that dares to use it a racist? Because conservatives insist it should be wrong? You are such an idiot. You really don’t think about what you type. You are the one that said that calling someone “brown people” isn’t bad because brown people call themselves that just like blacks call themselves black. I pointed out to you that blacks also call each other nigger but get offended if anyone else does. But by your logic it should be okay since they call themselves that name. I know you don’t want to understand what a racist you are and that you are trying to justify it. I am pointing out the idiocy of your logic.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 again….you ignore what is actually said. I have stated repeatedly that I am all for legal immigration. I’m not in fear of immigrants. But I truly believe it is wrong to basically say we have no border because anyone should be able to enter our country whenever they want and we should just deal with it. That is a policy of fools. And that is what the Dems are campaigning on. But you insist that enforcing the laws and controlling our borders (yes, even the northern one since you always get wrapped around the axle on that on) isn’t what I really mean. You are sure that, even though I have never said any such thing, that I am afraid of losing power (which I don’t have), or my culture (which doesn’t hold any reality in my mind). So you ignore what I do say…brush it off as a lie….and then create a whole narrative that you assign to me. And I say me since you are referring to “the right” which I am proudly a member of.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Thanks, thats all I’m saying. I appreciate the respectful convo.

Yellowdog's avatar

The political right, as exemplified by the MAGA crowd but dating back to the 1980s, has never been a party of racism, although I began to hear these charges during the Reagan years, less than a decade from when the Left was on the wrong side of the Civil Rights era. Back then, what was being said by the political left was that the right was racist because of its support of vouchers for minorities to attend private schools. Evidently, it was racist for some reason for private schools to exist at all.

I have never heard one iota of racist rhetoric at a Trump Rally. Usually the spirit is overwhelmingly of everyone pulling together, and is demonstrated by hearing the stories of what is happening with whom in the country, more of a victims-to-victory recognition. Of course, there is exposure for what the naysayers and opposition is saying, and how far they will go in their hateful rhetoric and their efforts at rigging and undoing the 2016 elections, and subsequent treasonous acts like the Mueller investigation and more recent acts.

I find it hard to believe what I’m seeing and hearing, as the party that has been the party of racism from the Trail of Tears up until the Carter administration, has been so adamant that the opposition was, or is, the party of racism—especially with no rhetoric of that sort coming from the right.

There is no national wave of white supremacists, white nationalists, or systemic racism in this country. Yet you are trying to act like there is and everyone knows it. And there is no racial or racists rhetoric coming from the right. The Left has continued to press this issue ad nauseam but has itself been preoccupied with race—an issue most people ignore.

As far as the most recent posts by @JLeslie, Stanley and @MrGrimm, the overwhelming majority of Americans are mixed race and live, work, and exist among a number of ethnicities and never think about it. The Left is unique at using race for identity politics.

JLeslie's avatar

@tinyfaery I used to get called guera by my in-laws, but I always translated it as blonde or fair haired.

Was it said to you in a derogatory way?

@Yellowdog What are you considering mixed race? Because by most definitions the majority is still “white” especially in the part of the country you live in.

Edit: Although not in Memphis proper. I think that is 60% African American, but I mean that region of the US.

The Republicans play identity politics by using words like white nationalists, wanting the confederate flag on government buildings, giving winks and nods to WS. Even if those people feel in their hearts everyone is equal, the way it is heard and seen is terrifying to minorities. I agree that the left ignores when Trump does voice his disapproval of WS groups, but that’s because he has also seemed to support racism, but also agree the left wants to promote he is a racist.

I’m my head I argue with myself that maybe the left wing should show video of Trump disavowing the WS over and over and over again all day long.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . Again. You disregard that I stated that I don’t support “illegal” immigration. But, I do support the LAW, that states basically anyone can apply for asylum. Applications can be denied to thousands. But Trump, is trying to block the legal request for asylum. Unlawful, unconstitutional, yet, no complaints from you…...

Yellowdog's avatar

In order to apply for asylum, you must come through a legal port of entry. I think that’s pretty basic.

You are still saying it’s Trump. But these laws have been established by congress for good reasons, and have always been on the books.

You can only apply for asylum in the first safe country you arrive in. And you have a hearing date that is ignored about ninety percent of the time.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Dude. You really need to get off of FOX “news.”..

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 You are quick to discount @Yellowdog, but he is right. And here’s the kicker…most of our asylum laws are based on international agreements. They talk about where a refugee can apply for asylum. Many of those in these caravans that march to our borders are marching through 1, 2, 3…maybe more countries before asking for asylum. By the rules, they should be asking for asylum at the first country they come to where their reason for asylum no longer exists. For example, if you are a Christian in Iran and are threatened with death because of your religious belief you have a valid claim for asylum. But if you cross the border into Turkey and Christians are no longer being threatened, THAT is where you apply. But more aptly, our laws also talk about what is required for asylum. There are many criteria for which asylum can be granted, but most of those coming into this country these days and claiming it don’t meet those them. Being poor and wanting a better life is not a reason for asylum. Having a lot of crime in your home country is not a reason for asylum. And no, that doesn’t mean I’m not caring about the poor or those that live in high crime areas, but it does mean those reasons aren’t within the laws for asylum.

Yellowdog's avatar

Why would anyone want to come here anyway, where at least 1 out of 3.5 people are white supremacists?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I don’t want to come there for any reason, you guys are just plain crazy.

JLeslie's avatar

For years and years Cubans got asylum by showing up on the Florida shores. They didn’t come in through a port. They swam up and put their toes on the sand and got practically automatic asylum.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 I have never heard a press report claiming that Trump is required by law to expose his tax records to the public. YOUR turn to produce the facts. Once again, what has the press invented that equals Trump’s actual words and behavior for shallow depravity, petty minded cruelty and outright dishonesty. He is a man CLEARLY without honor who excels at callous contempt for the truth and common decency. He is an unmitigated embarrassment to his country, a disgrace to his office and unworthy of the respect due a cessppool. And no supposed invention of the media can approach the actual slime defining the man.

Demosthenes's avatar

Most migrants worldwide are economic migrants, poor and/or jobless and seeking a better life, and that is not grounds for asylum, true. But of the ones that are fleeing violence, it makes sense that they’re not going to apply for asylum in places like Guatemala and Mexico, given that those countries are also poor and violent.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SQUEEKY Haha, I wont come to Canada either, deal.

Yellowdog's avatar

Me neither. All they do is listen to Gordon Lightfoot and Anne Murray and Rush,

Maybe we can buy the Maritime provinces and let Quebec become an independent nation.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly You mean produce citations to support my statements just like you NEVER do? What a toad you are. But here are some examples:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/heres-the-law-that-requires-steven-mnuchin-to-turn-over-trumps-taxes-or-lose-his-office-and-go-to-prison

https://taxprof.typepad.com/files/154tn1013-yin.pdf

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016231685

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/04/25/trump-isnt-just-violating-norms-hes-also-breaking-law/
But honestly…you don’t really care about the citations. I say that because you NEVER back up your crap with anything. You love to bloviate endlessly about how horrible he is, but you refuse to actually produce a single fact to back up your prattle. Tell you what…the next time I ask you to produce a citation to back up your crap, I will bring this statement back out. I predict that you will dodge and duck and evade and change topic and claim EVERYBODY knows whatever garbage you are shoveling. So please…be advised that I will play this back EVERY TIME you refuse.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Yellowdog Gordon Lightfoot, snicker. Good one.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

See?? Freaking crazy^^^^!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Uh @seawulf575 for being such a peace loving ,caring , conservative you’re not showing it very well in this thread, in fact the vibe I get from you is just hateful the exact thing you claim the left is so guilty of.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Probably so. I’m entirely fed up with the double standards. I have always believed that a game should have the same rules for all. Must be the Libra in me. Yet I pretty much don’t see it from the left. The exact opposite, in fact. They want conservatives to play by one set of rules but they don’t want to be held to that same set. Look at my last exchange with @stanleybmanly as a perfect example. I have challenged him many, many times to provide a citation for his claims and he acts like it is unreasonable to even be asked. Yet as soon as I say something he doesn’t like he demands citations. But that is just a minor example of the hypocrisy from the left. So I have started playing by the rules the left uses. I use the same language as is used against me, I use the same attitude I get…I am playing the game the way the left shows they want it played. Odd that you see it as hateful.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Those aren’t articles claiming Trump being required to reveal his tax records to the public. They are articles on his defiance of Congressional mandates and subpoenas. List a single journalist claiming Trump required to divulge his taxes to the public. As for the rest of my crap, try to make a case for Trump as an honorable man. I dare you to wade into that minefield. Tell us why the fool should be the role model we should aspire to emulate. While raving ceaselessly (like himself) on the duplicity of the press, you never bother to dispute my allegation that he is himself a pathological liar. Why is that?

tinyfaery's avatar

@JLeslie The term gringo(a) is definitely derogatory, but guero(a) is not necessarily so. I was always called that with affection or when my friends though that I was doing or saying something especially “white”, but it was always in a teasing sort of way. I think it all depends on context and probably the area you live in.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@stanleybmanly If @seawulf575 doesn’t take you up on that, I’d be willing to play Devils Advocate. But I get to compare him to Dem Presidents, too, as ‘role models’.

JLeslie's avatar

@tinyfaery Even if they call me gringa I don’t get offended. Some things that they think are very gringa I think are just fine Cultural differences I guess, so I kind of just own it. Yup, I am American, I do think it is ok to be barefoot in my house, and I wear my pajamas when I eat breakfast in my house, and I need some things done in writing to protect everyone involved, and I think it’s good for kids to go away to college, and whatever else they judge.

Some things they think about differently after years of living here, and now having their own kids and grandkids here. I in no way think all Mexicans think all those things I named are bad, I am just talking about my own inlaws and the judgements and stereotypes they hold/held.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie You should do an educational post and let us ask questions…lol

Why is it not okay to be barefoot?
Why can’t you eat breakfast in pajamas?
Why can’t kids go away to college?

tinyfaery's avatar

@JLeslie It’s good that you’re not offended, and a lot of things that people criticize are cultural. The term does infer a negative judgment but there is no need for you to take that judgment to heart.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL Again, I am just taking about my inlaws, I have no idea how most Mexicans feel about these things. Although, it is very common in Latin America to always wear some sort of slipper or shoe in the house. It probably stems from the houses usually having marble or ceramic tiles, and the floors are cold, but my inlaws also think it is dirty to be barefoot, and bad etiquette. Of course, studies show outside shoes worn inside make floors much germier, but facts don’t matter, it’s their custom. They have changed on this a little. They don’t judge it anymore, they see the logic of having the grandkids kick off their shoes before entering the house. I think in their social class most people had live-in help, so the floors were swept daily and they didn’t have to worry about dirt being tracked in.

My inlaws wake up, shower, and dress, before coming to the table for breakfast. It’s exhausting. I don;t know if they do that when it is just them alone in the house, but if they stay at my house, or if I stay at their house they do it.

My MIL thinks Americans kick their kids out at 18, because they don’t want them living at home anymore. That’s what she thinks about sending children away to school, that the parents can’t wait to get rid of their kids. Of course, I have tried to correct her notion about this, telling her that parents aren’t kicking their kids out at 18, they are doing what they think is best for their children. Plenty of American children commute to college from home or live with their parents for a while after high school graduation. She doesn’t understand the concept of why it is good for adult children to be on their own to create a life for themselves. She feels that if you want to leave that it is separating the family and an affront to the family. Even if you live close by. She still thinks more in terms of children leaving when they get married.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Interesting, thanks!

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL Some of it must be their generation I think. They are in their early 80’s. My guess is younger family members of theirs in Mexico maybe don’t have all the same ideas about these things. My only point was they think of things counter to these ideas as “American” and they don’t say that in a nice tone. When my niece started college she wanted a one bedroom apartment off campus. My MIL was upset that my niece’s father wouldn’t pay $1,600 a month for the apartment. She didn’t want to live on campus, she didn’t want a roommate. She got all these ideas from her mom I would assume. I think she would have been best off on campus. Anyway, I told my MIL I agree with her father. How man freshman students live in a $1,600 a month one bedroom apartment off campus? He is Italian, not even American, lol, but anyway, my MIL had her own ideas about such things.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Sure, I get it. My Vietnamese friends were raised to marry Vietnamese. Now one is married to an American and has children, another married to a Filippino, etc…I think maybe one son married a Vietnamese. Different rules in a different country, I guess. Although Ma and Ba probably are not thrilled.

JLeslie's avatar

My Vietnamese friend’s had great parties. Lol.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie I just had an encounter with an elderly latino couple in my small town. The old man asked how much a damn banana cost, and looked embarassed. I know all the arguments on both sides and neither fixes things for that old couple.

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