Social Question

wiscoblond's avatar

Why do some people take it personally when you say something negative about Trump?

Asked by wiscoblond (1640points) 4 weeks ago

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255 Answers

stanleybmanly's avatar

They are vested in him and his success, as are we all. The smart ones will dispense at the outset with any attempt at mastering the gargantuan obstacles to a credible defense of the fool.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Because they’ve emotionally invested themselves in the idea of Trump returning the country to some mythical, idyllic time they want to believe in, but which never actually existed to begin with.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

What they^^ said!

Demosthenes's avatar

I don’t know. I don’t love any politicians enough to feel personally offended when someone says something against them. It’s a mindset I don’t understand. I would assume that because people seem to be increasingly making politics a part of their identity, they view an insult against a politician they support as an insult against them.

Pinguidchance's avatar

My clinical psychiatrist says it transference but he’s wacko.

flutherother's avatar

The negative things said about Trump are mostly true and undermine their support of the worst president in American history.

JLeslie's avatar

Lots of good answers above. Here are mine, some of them restate what’s above.

They take it as an affront to their own judgment.

They identify with Trump, and so if you say something bad about Trump you are saying something bad about them.

They are afraid Trump won’t be able to get everything done if there are people against him.

They feel Trump holds the secret to the country being a better place. (I saw this with Bernie supporters a lot.)

They idealize him like a God, and you better not attack or speak badly about one of their Gods.

Someone above said transference, and that is probably a very good possibility for some also.

Fear. Trump means hope for them. Another one that I think applied to Bernie supporters. It could be any President or presidential candidate.

If they have low self esteem, they may be sensitive any time their judgment is called into question. That’s not just Trump supporters, that’s true of Obama supporters, Clinton, Bush, it doesn’t matter which president.

Then you have the opposite spectrum of very cocky people who don’t like their judgment called into question, because of course they know best! You are an idiot and they can’t deal with how stupid other people are (in their opinion) and get frustrated and impatient. One could argue the cocky ones also have low self esteem and are overcompensating.

People get very frustrated when they think people are lying. Trump supporters think people lie about Trump and twist his words. They race to defend him, which comes across as harsh or very emotionally charged. That too is not just Trump supporters, I see that in a lot of people.

ragingloli's avatar

Because they voted for him, and his constant moronic antics and tantrums demonstrate their inability to make rational, adult decisions.
And it is not like they could claim that “they did not know beforehand”, because his embarrassing buffoonery was on full display during the entire election.
So they have to defend him tooth and nail, no matter what he does.
The clown just cancelled a meeting with Danish leaders and their Queen, because they refused to sell him Greenland.
Watch them bend over backward to defend that.

honeybun35's avatar

Because they’re Obama haters. I have co-workers you’d think they personally know him and that he’d care about them. It messes up their whole day if you say something bad about Trump.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

It’s also because it’s all some people talk about and we are tired of fucking hearing about it. There are threads here about something completely unrelated and it can’t go three posts without someone whining about Trump. Reminds me if how everything was Obama’s fault.

JLeslie's avatar

I think it’s way more than hating Obama. Hating Obama has to do with what Obama represented. They fear socialism and they want America to be strong in the world, blessed by God, and in their minds that includes things like supporting Israel blindly, lowering taxes, and deregulating industry. They believe capitalism is synonymous with God and Democracy.

Trump put out a tweet quoting Wayne Allyn Root basically saying “Trump is the greatest President for the Jews and for Israel in the history of the world…he is like a King of Israel…like the second coming of God.”

zenvelo's avatar

Because Trump supporters are all delicate snowflakes who get butt hurt anytime someone points out how ridiculous the President is.

And if you don’t believe that, I have a large island to sell you near Iceland.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I take it personally because regardless of who is President, I have always and will always respect the office. I believe it’s unpatriotic as well as obsessive to take it to the hateful level it’s currently on.

Say what you want about people hating on Obama, I don’t recall it ever reaching the fever-pitch of Trump hating that currently exists.

@ARE_you_kidding_me Accurate. There were problems before Trump, there will be problems after Trump. Some of these answers reflect the ‘thoughts’ of the Left, which don’t appear to be very accurate imo.
Maybe the Right is just more forgiving…can you imagine Trump diddling an intern like Bill did? Or Trump placing an additional tax burden on the poor who can’t afford health insurance? The left would lose their ever-loving minds.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL “Say what you want about people hating on Obama, I don’t recall it ever reaching the fever-pitch of Trump hating that currently exists.”

You either weren’t paying attention or you have selective memory.

Jaxk's avatar

It’s because the liberals, with the help of the mainstream media have divided the country into two camps. It’s not Repubs vs Dems or even liberal vs conservative, it’s good vs evil. If you’re a Trump supporter, you’re obviously evil or at a minimum deranged. They’ve done this quite successfully. Gone are the days when we could have a political disagreement. Now if you don’t agree with the Dems, you should be banned from restaurants, fired from your job, stoned, or at minimum ridiculed. It’s taken personally because it is personal.

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Demosthenes's avatar

@zenvelo

Made me laugh out loud.

And very true. The same people who accuse everyone else of being “snowflakes” are ironically quite sensitive when it comes to Trump.

And I don’t believe for a minute that those who take insults against Trump personally were equally offended when Obama was insulted. Or even Bush for that matter. The sense of identity coinciding with political persuasion has increased significantly since those two were in the Oval Office.

Dutchess_III's avatar

”.....can you imagine Trump diddling an intern like Bill did?” AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! You know he’s tried!

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth_Algar I disagree and I live in Trump country, but I know you can’t help yourself.

@Dutchess_III I don’t know that. Melania is a hottie.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

It’s a cult. See above for evidence, as if we needed any more.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Melania can’t stand to touch him. Haven’t you seen the videos @KNOWITALL? Besides, men like that just want conquest. It doesn’t matter what they have at home. Plus she’s getting a little old for his tastes.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I personally know several Trump voters who are quite intelligent, one of them has a PHD in engineering physics.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III Do you believe this video? Exactly, nor do I really care as long as he doesn’t molest random WH staffers like we’ve seen with past Presidents.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/alex-jones-michelle-obama-man-proof-infowars-conspiracy-theorist-sandy-hook-a7911996.html

ragingloli's avatar

And Josef Mengele had a PhD in Anthropology.
Pretty meaningless when it comes to moral judgement.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Nobody is guaranteed sound moral judgement. However, simply writing off all Trump voters as stupid is um…stupid.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The conservative view of Trump deficiencies as inventions of liberal hatred is ridiculous. Liberal or conservative, NO ONE dares dispute the fact that he is a lying, vindictive, laughable, ignorant ,buffoon. Yet, the monotonous daily demonstrations that the fool is the country’s great tasteless practical joke is somehow proof of liberal hatred!!! Trump sulks because Denmark isn’t for sale— proof of liberal hatred. The country is indeed divided into 2 camps, but the accusation that liberals are driving the division is ridiculous if you are going to mount Trump as your champion. There isn’t a single day allowed to pass without verbal affirmation or callous behavior from the fool reinforcing his infamous characterization of “I am an ignorant jackass.” Conservatives feel themselves under attack by liberals and pillory the press for combining to foment dissension through in effect calling a bluebird blue.

Demosthenes's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me Agreed. It would be nice if we could discuss Trump without going there, but that seems to be inevitable. I don’t think it even answers the question anyhow. Identification with a politician isn’t dependent upon intelligence (or lack thereof). Intelligent people can become enamored with a politician or politics as well.

@stanleybmanly What I have a problem with is blaming one side for division. Don’t you see that is division?

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Sorry, but the left created the conditions that brought us Trump. He was a hand grenade thrown into the oval office by everyone the left has been pissing off or ignoring,this includes people in the Democratic party. Roughly half the population so it’s not just white male racists who elected him. It was not even just conservatives. Probably a quarter of the party loyal Republicans I know could not bring themselves to vote for him. I wrote in Kasich. That means a fair number of traditional democrats voted for him as well.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well what else would you expect from a nutty right wing news site @KNOWITALL.

I was referring to videos like this

And this. Look for the clip at 30 seconds.

She can’t stand him any more. So not only will he probably be going to jail after his presidency, she’ll probably file for divorce.

Demosthenes's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me I think that’s true to an extent. Democrats ignored or wrote off a significant portion of the population and were then surprised when they did not vote for them. I fear they will be making the same mistake this time around given the supposed “inevitability” of a candidate like Biden. I also think people voted for Trump because they were tired of career politicians and wanted to shake things up (or “drain the swamp” if you will). I know people who supported Bernie and said they would vote for Trump if Bernie did not get the nomination (I haven’t followed up to find out if they actually did, but I imagine some Democrats voted for Trump for reasons like this).

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

the left created the conditions that brought us Trump

“Look what you made me do” is a classic wife beater’s refrain.

Meanwhile, in reality, Trump is just a louder version of what Republicans have become since Nixon and the Southern Strategy. The core of the party is resentment towards people who have gained rights and respect, a yearning for the days when “America was great” when women and minorities could be openly treated with contempt.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@Demosthenes But WHERE is the division????? Is he a pathologically lying, immoral, vindictive, ignorant man or not? Is the bizarre idea that Denmark is up for sale the lying creation of the media or another liberal dividing invention? Surely YOU must understand that the scope of Trump’s defects are NEITHER the creations of the left or the media. Are those defects REAL or invented? Which is it ?

rebbel's avatar

I feel the hatred, from both sides, directed to the other side, has much to do with the same phenomenon you can witness in sports team fandom.
The team someone supports is like a child, or a lover.
Touch it, or call it names, and the hooligan comes out.
Hooligans (some) are known to be (highly) educated, with (good) jobs, and loving/lovely families.
Touch their “baby”, and out comes the caveman.

Demosthenes's avatar

@stanleybmanly I’ve long thought that Trump supporters ignore Trump’s flaws and attempt to write them off as “fake news”. That is plain to see. But the writing off of Trump supporters themselves is only worsening the division. Criticize Trump all you want. But say that Trump supporters are all idiots and you’re making this country a worse place to live in.

@rebbel True. Which is why I consistently refer to the politics of our age as “sports team politics”. The strong sense of identity, the competition, the obsession with “owning” the other side and scoring “points”. Both sides of guilty of it and it’s a sad state of affairs.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Both sides of guilty of it and it’s a sad state of affairs.

One side is massacring Walmart shoppers and synagogue worshipers while parroting White House talking points. Democrats aren’t shouting “send them back” at American born congressmen.

There is no comparison.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

“Look what you made me do” is a classic wife beater’s refrain

Not equivalent to voting for Trump.

Demosthenes's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay I said that both sides are guilty of fostering division through sports team politics. That is a fact. I said nothing of moral equivalencies.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me “I personally know several Trump voters who are quite intelligent, one of them has a PHD in engineering physics.”

And I personally know one PhD holder who you’d seriously wonder how he ever even survived into adulthood. Bookish intelligence doesn’t necessarily imply sound judgment.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

But you can’t just label them “stupid” though.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay Wow, did you even research that? Took one Google to disprove that.

Omar Mateen, the shooter who killed 49 people at a nightclub in Orlando, Florida, in 2016, was registered as a Democrat in 2006. He voted in the Florida primary in 2016, according to reporting from Politico.

A friend of Aaron Alexis, who killed 12 people at the Washington Navy Yard in 2013, said in a CNN interview that the shooter was “more of a liberal type.” There were no other reports of his political affiliation.

In 2017, 66-year-old James Thomas Hodgkinson shot and injured six people at a congressional baseball game in Virginia — nearly killing House Majority Whip Steve Scalise. Hodgkinson volunteered for the presidential campaign of Democrat Bernie Sanders and apparently targeted the Republican team.

There were also claims that Adam Lanza, who killed 20 people at Sandy Hook Elementary School in 2012, was a Democrat. He was not registered to vote, according to the Washington Post.

———————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
“Most of the school shooters are children who wouldn’t know a conservative from a communist,” said Jack Levin, Northeastern professor and co-director of the Brudnick Center on Violence and Conflict. “The idea of associating politics with these mass murders is absurd. It has absolutely nothing to do with it.”

Lipman agreed: “There is absolutely no evidence to show that mass killings are motivated by political ideologies of any type. All of the mass killings we’ve seen have been motivated by a lethal combination of a small subgroup of mental illnesses, and easy accessibility to weapons of mass killing during the peak symptomatology of those illnesses.”

There’s no proof to support that claim. The political affiliation of most of the mass shooters we looked at was either unreported or never verified. Experts said these events are rarely motivated by politics to begin with.

https://www.politifact.com/new-york/statements/2018/feb/23/claudia-tenney/do-many-mass-shooters-end-being-democrats-rep-tenn/
(for the mods, all sourced with this link)

raum's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me I would. Book smart and stupid aren’t mutually exclusive.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Ok so every Trump voter is stupid then…..

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t know a lot of trump supporters but either they’re stupid or they’re rich and they see the opportunity to get richer on the backs of the country via trump.

zenvelo's avatar

Too many of them consider it blasphemy. After all, Trump is The Chosen One, the King of Israel. Said so himself.

Yellowdog's avatar

Both the recent Walmart shooters were democrats.

In San Antonio, the shooter believed the environment was in serious danger from plastics, wasted electronics, corporate America such as Walmart, and overpopulation. The world was not sustainable. His solution was to kill, as in, its us or them. Does believing the world isn’t sustainable sound like Trump? Where do the mentally ill get these notions?

The Dayton shooter was a vehement Elizabeth Warren supporter.

The synagogue shooter was pro-Palestine, anti-“Zionist”. Like Omar, he went with an ideology that Israel “hypnotized the world” (e.g. Protocols of the Elders of Zion), and controlled the world’ through financial influence.

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wiscoblond's avatar

Trump didn’t win because of his supporters. Trump won because so many hated Hillary. I said this elsewhere and I’ll say it again. He has no chance of winning. He will not flip Wisconsin this time. You can quote me on that.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Biden seems to be the only “likeable” candidate on the left that the right could even remotely stomach. Good luck if it’s one of the others running.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me one very important thing has started changing. Several states have abolished the Electoral College.

wiscoblond's avatar

Many Trump supporters now support Sanders. So…

JLeslie's avatar

@wiscoblond So, are you saying they are going to vote for Sanders in the primary, and if Sanders doesn’t get the nomination they are going to vote for whichever Democrat gets the nomination?

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay Wow, did you even research that?

Yes. And nothing you typed disproved it. Right wing violence is a movement. Keep a large population of impressionable people angry and stewing, and a certain number of them will act out.

The Walmart shooter and the Cleveland synagogue shooter were enraged about immigrants and almost verbatim repeating Trump’s anti-immigrant talking points. The MAGA bomber had a van plastered in Trump campaign slogans.

There is noting remotely equivalent to this among Democrats.

ABC News finds 36 cases invoking ‘Trump’ in connection with violence, threats, alleged assaults.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Trying to equate mass shooters to conservatives is just petty slander.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Several states have abolished the Electoral College.

Not abolish but use it differently It can’t be abolished without changing a constitutional amendment, which isn’t remotely possible in the foreseeable future.

The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact can elect the popular vote winner through the Electoral College. But it needs more states to join before that can happen.

Your link shows how close they are, but I don’t think it will be soon.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Trying to equate mass shooters to conservatives is just petty slander.

There are conservative shooters who are inspired by (and repeating) the rhetoric they hear from the president, other elected officials, and the conservative media.

You can’t honestly deny that.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Biden seems to be the only “likeable” candidate on the left that the right could even remotely stomach.

“Why can’t the Democrats be reasonable and give us a candidate that will win the Republican vote”.

Conservative deep thoughts, ladies and gentlemen.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@Demosthenes Yes it turns out to be a point battle, but YOU are not ALLOWED to be to be neutral when confronted with a threat to the very definition of rational perception embodied in Trump and the passing off such an aberrant manifestation as within the parameters of “tolerable”. My rhetoric above in describing the man is severe and divisive. BUT IS IT THE TRUTH? And if you decide that it is, is the rational reaction to that truth “so what?” or “the left is making it up”? If calling Trump on his faults is divisive that’s just tough shit! I agree that open contempt for his supporters does none of us any good. The problem HERE is that open contempt for Trump is not only fully deserved but absolutely essential. Such an aberration must be confronted with all the ridicule and derision available. Trump is beyond divisions of left and right, but the misfortune of the right’s attachment to an obdurate idiot is not the responsibility of either the left or the press, and the very fact that the charge of obdurate idiot will sit here uncontested should be sufficient proof that there is no divisiveness here regarding the attributes of the man. You may defend his supporters. I dare you to mount a defense of the man.

wiscoblond's avatar

Great answer Stanley!

wiscoblond's avatar

@JLeslie I only know they are not happy with Trump and have now put their efforts into supporting Sanders. They may sit out of the election if Sanders doesn’t become the Democratic nominee. They feel he is the only candidate who will listen to them.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I for one will probably sit out the next election.

Dutchess_III's avatar

People “sitting out” was another huge reason trump won. Please don’t do it again.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

I have read the thread, but I am going to answer the OP.

People take attacks on Trump personally because of irrational tribalism. He’s their chief, and attacks on him are felt as attacks on self.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I’m not going to vote for anyone currently in the running.

Caravanfan's avatar

You mean stuff like “Trump is a stupid emotional cruel narcissist who cares about nothing about anybody besides himself?” You mean stuff like that?

Demosthenes's avatar

I’d consider voting for Tulsi Gabbard. But I know she has no chance. If this country offers up Trump and another stinker on the Dem side again, don’t be surprised if a lot of people don’t vote.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thanks a lot you guys.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay “One side is massacring Walmart shoppers and synagogue worshipers while parroting White House talking points.”

We’ve clearly shown Democrats are part of the problem.

Must make you proud to support hurting the elderly, women, immigrants, or minorities, BUT ONLY IF they don’t believe in the same things as you do.

There’s literally hundreds of videos and stories of liberal violence over the last few years. The other day ya’ll frothed about the El Paso picture, when they clearly were quoted as being Trump fans.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It just cracks me up how the conservatives steal the things liberals say then vomit the words back up at times when it doesn’t even make any sense. Nothing @Call_Me_Jay has ever said indicates he’s “proud of hurting the elderly, women, immigrants or minorities”, whereas for the conservatives hurting all non white, non male, non American persons is their God given right.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III Yep, beating up an 81 yr old man for wearing a MAGA hat is really funny.

That’s your team though, not mine.

wiscoblond's avatar

@Dutchess_III People “sitting out” was another huge reason trump won. Please don’t do it again.

Careful what you ask for. He might vote for Trump otherwise.

wiscoblond's avatar

@KNOWITALL Yeah, and beating people up for their skin color and sexual identity is really funny.~

kritiper's avatar

I knew a guy years ago who really doted on the Minnesota Vikings. He SWORE by those Vikings! Those Vikings could do NO WRONG. He always bet on them to win the Super Bowl.
Some people think of Trump that same way.

wiscoblond's avatar

@Caravanfan No, like saying Greenland would be a great place to dump all the pedophiles and rapists and then get personally attacked viciously in messages.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Yellowdog

There was no Walmart shooting in San Antonio. That was El Paso. And the shooter published online, many times in fact, white supremacist, anti-immigrant manifestos. He told police that he was specifically targeting Hispanics, hoping to inspire Hispanics to leave the country. Part of his manifesto railed on the idea that an increasing Hispanic population would ensure a Democratic stronghold in Texas and eventually solidify Democratic control in the nation’s capital.

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Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

Congratulations. You yourself have witnessed no one get beat up over their race or sexual identity in your little town in Missouri. We may all now rest easy in the knowledge that since you haven’t seen it then it doesn’t happen anywhere.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

There’s literally hundreds of videos and stories of liberal violence over the last few years.

No, there are not hundreds. Your comments show you live in a far-right news bubble. And equating supposed beatings with mass shootings is dishonest.

Adam Lanza wasn’t fighting for democratic policies. The Pulse night club shooter wasn’t a cheerleader for any politician.

There is nothing on the left like Charlottesville, with conservatives carrying torches and ramming a car into a crowd. There is nothing on the left like El Paso. Nothing like Cleveland. The Christchurch New Zealand murderer explicitly praised Trump.

Right-wing terrorism is real. Even Republicans are admitting it now. You can stop making excuses for your people.

Los Angeles Times – July 24, 2019 -‘FBI Director Christopher Wray told Congress on Tuesday that the agency has seen an increase in the number of domestic terror arrests this fiscal year, a majority of which have been motivated by white supremacy.’

Anti Defamation League - ‘The extremist-related murders in 2018 were overwhelmingly linked to right-wing extremists. Every one of the perpetrators had ties to at least one right-wing extremist movement.’

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Dutchess_III's avatar

Somehow I don’t see Adam Lanza as being a registered voter so how could you possibly know what his political affiliations are, if any?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

And what does @Call_Me_Jay‘s post have to do with my reply to you?

Demosthenes's avatar

facepalm. If we keep thinking these mass shootings are motivated by politics, we’re going to keep having them because we clearly don’t understand them.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

I don’t identify with those extremists

That’s a meaningless dodge.

They are conservatives who share your views on immigration and your support for Trump.

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RedDeerGuy1's avatar

Tribalism? I didn’t read the above posts.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@RedDeerGuy1 Smart of you, I lost IQ points.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

If we keep thinking these mass shootings are motivated by politics

Your “both sides are bad” and blaming non-specific “violence” shtick are just passive-aggressive support for the conservative side.

Mass murderers are spouting rhetoric straight from the president and right-wing media. Word for word quotes about an “invasion”. Republicans’s hateful language targeting immigrants is inspiring murderers.”

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m going to post a “joke” an acquaintance sent me. I’ll give you three guesses as to their political affiliation.

“I took down my Rebel flag (which you can’t buy on EBAY any more) and peeled the NRA sticker off my front window.
I disconnected my home alarm system and quit the candy-ass Neighborhood Watch.

I bought two Pakistani flags and put one at each corner of the front yard.
Then I purchased the black flag of ISIS (which you CAN Buy on EBAY) No you can’t and ran it up the flag pole.

Now the local police, sheriff, FBI, CIA, NSA, Homeland Security, Secret Service and other agencies are all watching my house 24/7.
I’ve NEVER felt safer and I’m saving $69.95 a month that ADT used to charge me.
Plus, I bought burkas for me to wear when I shop or travel.
Everyone moves out of the way, and security can’t pat me down.
If they say I’m a male wearing a burka, I just say I’m feeling like a woman today.

Hot Damn…Safe at last !!

God Bless America”

Demosthenes's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay In general I think people need to take personal responsibility for their actions. No one’s calling for the killing of Mexicans. In the same way that I think blaming video games is flawed, I think blaming “the rhetoric” is flawed. I would appreciate if the incendiary rhetoric would die down, I don’t deny it. But mass shooters motivated by extremism may latch onto any form of extremism. The Gilroy shooter, for example, didn’t seem to adhere to any ideology. He was interested in extremism itself and had material on a variety of extremist ideologies. And what about the Dayton shooter? He was motivated by far-left ideologies, including Antifa, yet there’s little to no talk about that in the media and among those condemning the El Paso’s shooter’s motives. Granted there was no manifesto, but his ideological leanings were made apparent and if they had been on the other side of the fence, I would expect vocal condemnation from the left. If it’s not rhetoric, it’s something else. Mass shooters with death wishes find reasons.

I mean, if we’re playing team politics, then yes, the right needs to own the El Paso shooting, but the left needs to own the Dayton shooting. Somehow I don’t think either side will agree to that. That’s why I generally don’t play team politics. It goes nowhere. And meanwhile we miss the bigger picture about young men expressing their emotional problems in the form of violence and the lack of attention paid to warning signs.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Desmosthenes Frankly, I couldn’t agree more. That’s why Q’s like this upset me.

Dutchess_III's avatar

The question is: Why do some people take it personally when you say something negative about Trump? No details, no nothing.

@KNOWITALL: ”That’s why Q’s like this upset me.”

That’s funny. I don’t care who you are!

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

The El Paso shooting, but the left needs to own the Dayton shooting.

Total nonsense.

The Dayton guy wasn’t acting out the rhetoric of Democratic politicians. Nobody is rampaging in the name of the Green New Deal and and affordable health care.

No one’s calling for the killing of Mexicans.

He says after a massacre of Mexicans by a right-winger with a manifesto virtually copied and pasted from the president’s own words.

JLeslie's avatar

As far as violence on what side by who, here are some hate crime statistics. https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime/2017/tables/table-1.xls

Keep in mind that there are only 2% Jews and 2% Muslims in the US. About 4% LGBT. 13% African American. 65% non-Hispanic white.

When you read the numbers on the link it’s important to realize the percentage harmed in a particular group is much higher for minorities, and so their actual risk is much higher.

seawulf575's avatar

Back to the original question: Why do some people take it personally when you say something negative about Trump? I actually have two reasons. The first has sort of been addressed. When someone says something negative about Trump, they usually have something to ride along with it that slams anyone that might disagree with that opinion. So if I am a Trump supporter and you say Trump is stupid because of X and anyone that supports him is an idiot/racist/fool/stupid, it stops being just a comment about Trump and becomes a personal attack. Not sure how YOU as the person making the negative comment would feel if someone did the same thing to you, but I take it personally.
The second reason is a little more esoteric. Many of the negative comments about Trump are based on lies and media propaganda. It offends me that people that parrot talking points take zero effort to find out the facts. And when it is pointed out that their comment may not be based on reality, reason 1 kicks in as they apparently take it personally that I disagree with them.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Many of the negative comments about Trump are based on lies and media propaganda.” No, they aren’t, and that’s even worse. We don’t NEED lies. Most of the crap comes straight out of his mouth. “I wanna buy Greenland.” That is absurd and makes him look stupid.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III Thank you for making my point. Some liberal outlet has ridiculed Trump for wanting to buy Greenland and you parrot it nicely. “That is absurd and makes him look stupid.” Funny…the US has tried to buy Greenland a number of times in the past. In the 1860’s for instance. We did buy the US Virgin Islands from Denmark in the early 1900’s. We have maintained military bases on Greenland for decades. Greenland has a wealth of rare-earth metals. There are a number of reasons we would want to buy it. What makes it a losing proposition is that Denmark really has no incentive for selling it. But you, as a Never-Trumper, don’t really care to look at the facts surrounding the situation and would rather just boil it down to “Trump Stupid!”. That is EXACTLY what I was talking about. I figured I could count on you or @stanleybmanly to walk in and make my point. Of course, you could tell me it wasn’t any liberal talking point, in which case you have given me a third reason for taking Trump slams personally: The ignorance of those slamming him. It offends my sensibilities.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

I was just repeating what the Prime Minister of Denmark said. She said the idea was absurd.

wiscoblond's avatar

@seawulf575 thanks for getting this back on track. I disagree with some of what you said but I appreciate your input.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

From the horse’s mouth.
He’s the second coming of God.

JLeslie's avatar

^^That’s what I’ve been trying to tell people since he declared Jerusalem the capital of Israel. I personally know people who believe he is part of the prophecy.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Oh good God. We’re being governed by superstition.

Demosthenes's avatar

And I thought it was going too far when Obama got the Peace Prize…

Dutchess_lll's avatar

I also so that was rather absured at the time @Demosthenes. It seemed illogical.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Eh, I wasn’t bothered by Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize. The thing’s been a joke ever since they gave it to Henry Kissinger.

wiscoblond's avatar

Going back to Stanley’s excellent response above, I feel those who say they are neutral at the moment are cowards. Atrocities are currently happening with Trump in office. To say you are above everyone else by not taking a side is bs. I’d actually have more respect for you if you stood your ground and sided with Sir Cheeto.

Demosthenes's avatar

I think it would be more cowardly to “pick a side” under pressure, to sacrifice my integrity and principles and embrace false narratives and what I believe to be harmful positions just to prove to insecure people that I’m not “above everyone else”. I’m more against Trump than supportive and I think people who take criticism of Trump personally are nothing more than thin-skinned. I will criticize him and his policies harshly when it’s warranted but I will not think he’s Hitler or think that everyone who voted for him is a worthless idiot who should be ignored. I will call out violence no matter what ideology it’s inspired by. And I will stick to the facts. Evidently this a position of ingratiating neutrality, but I see it as a sane position in a world that’s going insane.

If you want me to side with you, make your side more appealing.

wiscoblond's avatar

I side with those who fight against racism and homophobia. I don’t know how I should make my stance more appealing. It’s sad to think I should.

Demosthenes's avatar

I am against racism and homophobia. And if those who are against it do something I don’t like, I will call them out rather than be a hypocrite. That is just how I am.

wiscoblond's avatar

Then what’s the disagreement here? Trump’s base is racist and homophobic.

Yellowdog's avatar

Can you site any evidence for that, other than you like repeating it?

Any racist policies? Any anti-Gay statements?

why not live in a part of the world, such as Palestine, where its illegal to engage in these acts?

johnpowell's avatar

Trump gets to vanish in a few years. This stink is on you forever.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@wiscoblond Really now, all of Trumps base is racist and homophobic? It’s hard to take you seriously when you drop statements like that.

stanleybmanly's avatar

It is problematic painting all Trump supporters with the same brush. If you accept the proposition that people vote in what they perceive as their own interests, the motivations for elevating the fool are as multifaceted as the people themselves. If the people collectively for whatever reason decide that a duplicitous pig will best serve their hopes and goals, the question of how so vast a percentage of the population arrived at so momentous a conclusion is worthy of consideration. Trump is the clearest case I ever hope to see on the ability of people to overcome the handicaps implicit with common sense. Here we have an individual, the actual living embodiment of every trait and marker we have been warned against and trained to spurn from birth. And yet, so vacuous is the reasoning of a significant percentage of our population that in the face of these VISIBLE and PRONOUNCED liabilities their interests might
be served through the elevation of such a defective to the highest office in our land. In the wake of this attainment, this defective proceeds to exhibit precisely the behaviors concurrent with those clearly visible defects apparent from the outset of his arrival, yet his defenders persist with the explanation “he’s different” or worse “those liabilities are mere inventions of a hostile press, or the mentally unbalanced left.” So I ask you, in the face of Trump’s words and behavior before or since his attainment of our greatest office, what SHOULD one think of his supporters?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Are You But dont take it personally. Smh.

stanleybmanly's avatar

What would be the point? If those so persuaded remain unconvinced of the inconsistencies involved, there’s nothing to be achieved through resentment. It is merely at the very least disheartening that my inability to reconcile the elevation of a pig to the Presidency should be regarded as divisive.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Yes. But more at the rather bizarre moderation currently enveloping this thread. I don’t understand why you believe your question would offend me if smh means shaking my head.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 Your sensibilities? The accusation that critics of the fool’s Denmark debacle ignore the facts of the matter or are somehow ignorant of the history of the place and the desirability of our acquisition of it—straight out nonsense. The facts are that our President has once again evinced traits less flattering than mere stupidity. This time he has pulled from his ass the idea that Greenland is for sale. As you have admitted Greenland has no incentive and has given absolutely NO INDICATION that the prospect exists. Now none of these FACTS are liberal inventions or creations manufactured by the left to cast the fool in a bad light. To add to his troubles, our idiot President upon receipt of notice from from an apparently bewildered Danish prime minister that Greenland is not on the market, our bargain basement would be Napoleon apparently has a tantrum and cancels a long scheduled meeting with Denmark offering no explanation. Now in view of these developments, kindly explain how any telling of the tale might be achieved in a manner not further solidifying the fool’s ironclad reputation as a stupid fkup of unsurpassed magnitude.

JLeslie's avatar

@wiscoblond Did you vote for Hillary in the end? I have no idea if you did or not, but I remember you really wanted Bernie and hated Hillary, and I assume no matter how you voted you were sympathetic to Democrats at that time who didn’t vote, or voted for some third party candidate or write in. Am I wrong about any of that? Now, you’re being very harsh to people who are “neutral,” so I just wonder why is it so different this time?

stanleybmanly's avatar

@JLeslie There is NOTHING admirable about neutrality in the face of absurdity and straight up distortion of clear cut reality. When someone tells you while you are looking at it that a turd is a gold brick, impartiality is not on the table.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Not taking any action is taking action.

longgone's avatar

[Mod says] Moved to Social with OP’s permission.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly Wow…you used so many more words that @Dutchess_III did but you still make my point for me. Amazing. @wiscoblond did it in fewer words than @Dutchess_III when she (@wiscoblond) stated all Trump supporters are racist and homophobic.

Here’s the problem folks: You on the left cannot seem to get past the idea that Hillary lost the election. Despite the fact that the FBI and the NSA, and apparently Hillary, Obama, and the entire DNC tried to stack the deck, Trump won. You cannot process that. So to make sense of it, you have to slam Trump for every little thing and then try to belittle anyone that dares to disagree with your obsession. People take things personally when you make them personal. But please…feel free to carry on. The crazier the left gets, the more chance we have of getting another 4 years of Trump.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Blathering again. Nothing gets through to you.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf. You’re a vet, I’m an elected official, we are the ones they should be trying to persuade.I dont understand this strategy haha.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Hillary again. Wanna talk about deflection? THE problem is that the pig was elected, behaves in a fashion true to his breed, while even you will not dispute the creature a disgusting pig, you show up here claiming the disgusting oinking and malevolent grunting and squeelng the invention of the left and its captive media. The only point you have is at the apex of your head where the dunce cap sits.

Dutchess_III's avatar

The “Strategy” is the hope that you will develop some critical thinking skills. It’s not impossible. However, it has been my experience that people who are raised, from childhood, to believe in absurd, impossible events are much more likely to believe BS as adults.

raum's avatar

All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods.

It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly, let’s play a game. It’s called Get To The Heart Of The Problem. The rules are simple…i will ask a series of questions and you will answer them (or dodge which is more likely) and your answers will lead us to the Heart Of The Problem.
First question: When did you first develop such a hatred of Donald Trump?

jca2's avatar

I laugh when I hear the Right say that the Left can’t get over the election of Donald Trump.

The Right still can’t get over Obama. I still see Obama memes and comments about him not being a citizen and stupidity like that. Just today I saw a video on FB with Trump, Hillary and Obama, showing (supposedly), Obama not saluting the flag while the other two were.

Obama was a zillion times more dignified than Trump. Hell, I think George W. Bush looks like a knight in shining armor now compared to Trump. Democrats that I know all say, now that George Dubya really wasn’t that bad, compared to what we have now.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Let me go first, uh when he didn’t pay his labourers and trade people in his casino deals.
That was the first time.
Second when he gets his sheep doing stupid chants ,lock her up, comes to mind.
Next when he publicly made fun of a handicapped journalist that was classy.
Now comes that he has successfully alienated every ally you guys have including Canada and cuddled up to dictators and please act like you don’t know what I am talking about with this one.
He mocks handicapped people, and others that stand up to him but is terribly thin skinned when anybody says anything about him blows a gasket.
And if he does get back in guess we will have WW3 to look forward to.
But at least the rich will keep getting richer and you can get rid of a lot of poor people if that does happen.
And I know after the Nukes have been launched you can still blame Obama.

chyna's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 1000 GA’s!

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I was hoping to play with @stanleybmanly but your answers are fine. Basically, you started hating Donald Trump when he was running for office. That was when basically all those things became “news worthy”. Before he was a candidate, no one really cared about him. It wasn’t until he became a candidate and started threatening Hillary’s ascension to the throne, so to speak. So let’s dig to the next level, since this will add to the depth of the truth I am speaking here. To sum up, he supposedly didn’t pay laborers and trades people, he got crowds chanting and, not surprisingly, “lock her up” came to your mind, he ridiculed a handicapped journalist, he alienated our allies (supposedly). That should do, eh? So which of those actually impacted you directly? Were you a laborer he didn’t pay? Did you attend the rallies where he got the crowds chanting? Were you the journalist he insulted or was it a family member of yours? Do you really care about the US allies, especially since none of them really seem alienated?
I have to tell you, the one about the chanting speaks volumes towards confirming my statement…and you aren’t even a US citizen that could vote in our election. You were upset that he was stirring up the crowd against Hillary. But that is my take on it. Please, though…feel free to answer the question…which of these things directly impacted you?

Dutchess_lll's avatar

It blows my mind how anyone with half a brain cell can actually make excuses for him.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That wasn’t the question.
Any world leader mocking a handicap person for any reason is wrong, and totally tactless.
The us is Canada’s biggest trading partner, so just about anything that baboon does affects me, one way or another.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I am not mad about him stirring the crowd against Hilary, it was frightening to see him whip them into a mindless mob like mentality.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf Nothing you can say will get thru the herd mentality.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And visa-versa^^^
Does it not bother you he publicly mocked a handicap person?
Or that he bailed on paying his labourers and trades people with his deals?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

How do you publicly say your for the average working joe, when you have no problem screwing
your own workers?

Dutchess_lll's avatar

If it bothers them they just ignore it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SQUEEKY Yes, some things he says and does is ignorant. Absolutely.

Are you upset that Obama made families who couldnt afford insurance at all, PAY a fine?

(Edited, I’m tired)

Dutchess_lll's avatar

What exactly is “YOUR AGENDA” @KNOWITALL? And is your agenda good just for you or good for everyone?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess I’m fairly certain you know most of my agenda by now. I’ve discussed here for about seven years.

Its basically almost everything opposite of your beliefs.

kritiper's avatar

I am amazed at how many Trump supporters have this major superiority complex thing going on, like nobody is as smart, and/or nobody can be as smart as themselves…

JLeslie's avatar

@stanleybmanly I’d say a lot of people are going a lot of Republicans go “neutral” and stay home on voting day.

I’m just saying let’s not castigate people so harshly, especially when some of the people freaking out about Trump didn’t vote when Trump was running. I was just at dinner tonight with someone who wanted Bernie, and then didn’t vote when it was Hillary v. Trump. If she was lecturing people on people better not be neutral and sit this one out, I would consider that hypocritical. She wasn’t, but I’m saying IF. She said she thought Hillary would win for sure so she didn’t vote. In FLORIDA! We are a swing state. Every vote actually counts here unlike other states. My friend is 60. Anyone over the age of 30 should be able to figure out that if you want to make sure a candidate loses, you have to VOTE for the other guy.

I was asking @wiscoblond a question, because I didn’t want to assume, but she was hellfire on jellies if they liked Hillary. She crucified them.

Trump is exactly who he presented himself as. Trying to keep immigrants out. Wooing the far right. Using curse words and tough guy street talk. Saying all sorts of crazy shit to other world leaders.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 the answer is never. Again you confuse contempt for hatred. My guess is that I feel about Trump the way you do about Liberals or Trump does about vegetables. But here’s a question for you. Why do you hate America?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@stanley So you really just asked a vet that question. Classy.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The prisons are full of vets. But you miss the significance of my question. Do you actually suppose I believe wulfie hates America?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@stanley I would hope not, Stan, but hate is winning right now and high roads like Michelle mentioned, dont seem very popular with Dems. And to be honest, Dons not using the high road either. (Edited)

stanleybmanly's avatar

That’s just the point. Do you think I hate wulfie? Do you think I hate guns or Trump?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@stanley Mmm, not sure I know you well enough to be sure, but my impression is that no, you dont hate. You seem concerned and proactively thoughtful at times. Other times, you seem to be trying to convey something else entirely.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Why do you think I rag constantly on the fool? What’s my obsession? I’m going to be fine personally whether he is thrown in prison or declared king, so what’s my nonstop
tirade about?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@stanley Perhaps you actually care about the state of the union and all that entails. Sometimes you seem bitter and jaded. All sentiments I share btw.

I worked a full day followed by three hours of budgets. You may need to spell it out, if I can stay awake. If not, catch you around 6am.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Actually it IS the question. The rabid hatred that is poured out on these pages against Trump is more than gentle dislike. It is personal in many, many ways. It is so personal that those with that hatred extend it to anyone that doesn’t share their hatred of him. You listed a number of things that you didn’t like about Trump. I get it…I don’t expect everyone to like the guy or cheer for him. But step back a moment and look at the hatred that is poured against him. It is rude, aggressive…almost violent in many cases. So if he never did anything directly to impact you, why the hatred?
So far, your answers are telling me much. You started hating him when he ran for office and started being a threat to the liberal darling. You are obsessed with every little thing you deem as a slight or a rudeness from Trump. It is big enough that when asked why you hate him, you listed reasons. When I started probing more towards the reasoning behind the hatred, you suddenly tried back-tracking, even claiming you weren’t mad about him whipping up the crowd. Yet when asked why you hated him, that was your number 2 reason. I know you to be an intelligent person so I surmise that you saw where my questioning was going and tried avoiding the inevitable conclusion. You further cement that deduction by trying to turn the questioning back on me…to change the subject. And all along the way, you’ve had your cheerleaders urging you on.
So far, what I am seeing is that as soon as Trump started being a threat to Hillary, every little thing became a huge deal. When he won and there was no more chance of Hillary winning and pushing the US further towards socialism, that angst about losing suddenly was a reality and became impotent frustration. Since there is no release for that frustration, it churns and becomes hatred. It all comes back to Hillary losing the election. THAT is why you are so obsessed with Trump and why you have so many cheerleaders on these pages. They are obsessed with Hillary losing as well.

stanleybmanly's avatar

It doesn’t have to be nearly so complex. There’s a pig in the
White House and there are people who would prefer to pass it off as no big deal. But the pig won’t cooperate. The animal has a compulsion to speak and behave with compelling, strident and unfailing consistency to reinforce the fact of its piggish pedigree. As porky snorts and roots its way through the nation’s business, his apologists flummoxed by rumors that a bonafide pig might be regarded by the more fussy among us as unsuitable, resort to the tack that the piggy reputation is but the invention of a hostile press and deranged leftist hatred. Accordingly any and all comment on piggy behavior is deemed irrational hog hatred and the vindictive concoction of a lying press. So here we are. I look at Wulfie and yell “BUT ITS A PIG!” The reply: “Why do you hate Porky?”

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Stan Wow.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Get over the Hilary thing @seawulf575 , he was on the news about his casino deals long before he chose to ran for office.
You conservatives freaked over Obama spending a dime on anything,even went nuts when the debt had to serviced.
Trump gives over a Trillion dollars in tax cuts to the rich all is well, not a little peep when Trump’s debt has to be serviced, nothing.
Now another thing is how thin skin he is , can’t take anything bad said about him ,BUT he can bad mouth and mock till the cows come home.
NOTHING at all about Hilary that is your conception not mine.
The conservatives don’t seem to care about your countries debt, but that is all they could focus on when Obama was in.
The guy starts a needless trade war, that has hurt a great many countries yours included if you care to look, again NOTHING to do with Hilary,amazing.
Unless people are worshiping him at every turn he gets upset.
And all his needless lies.
It’s not an undeserved dislike, he has earned it many times over, still nothing to do with Hilary.
And this hate thing is been brought on by you conservatives, if a Dem/libs bad mouths anything you guys scream hate,or fake news.
I don’t remember the Dems screaming hate over all the bitching you guys did about Obama.
I got a real feeling of hate coming from the mobs screaming ,LOCK HER UP, that was real hate.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Now let me ask this, you are never and I repeat never going to change your view while some of his actions you might question ,you just love the guy.

And you are never going to change our views of him so why do we keep doing this dance,is it for your amusement ?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Tumps moronic bigotry and pretend superiority (while he’s actually suffering from acute insecurity) speaks to the heart and souls of his supporters. He is just like them. He’s a selfish pig and so are they.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 While you constantly level the charge of me ducking, or deflecting from the conversation, don’t think for a second that I haven’t noticed that your very existence here is footed on the utilization of that exact tactic. And nothing drives you to its employment more assuredly or dependably than any discussion around Trump’s suitability. The flaw with this method is in the fact that the fool will see to it that the issue is highlighted daily and usually several times daily, meaning you certainly have your work cut out for you! Now the pretense that this fool is the victim of bad press coverage at this point falls embarrassingly flat as an explanation for what we see and here from the fool himself. Again, nothing liberals or the press might invent, can be as damaging as the truth. No one can muster up that sort of imagination! So the stable genius fks up, the issue pops up here, and you are drug into the discussion. I throw out the usual list of the fool’s defects and not a peep from you (or anyone else) denying a single item on any one of those lists. Instead we get “How long have you hated Trump?” It’s your answer for everything. Trump throws a Tantrum when its prime minister declares Denmark not for sale, and sure enough, any outlet carrying the story is liberal and biased, and the proof that they are liberal and biased?—they carried the story. The result—the constant droning on the fool’s daily fkups has nothing to do with the fact that THEY are relentless. It is the fact that we are told about them and discuss them which proves that both the press and its audience are consumed with Trump hatred. The next time you insert the word hate into one of your explanations, I’m gonna nail your silly ass on it as sure as you breathe.

Dutchess_III's avatar

^^^ I think I love you!

stanleybmanly's avatar

Stop that! My head is already too big to fit through the front door. Besides, we don’t want the others growing suspicious.

Yellowdog's avatar

Why don’t you just accept that Trump always wins and there’s nothing you can do about it?

The more you say these things, the stronger his numbers grow.
Maybe someday you’ll join us, and the world will be as one.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Be as one? You look at this behavior, and listen to this fool, then come here describing it as winning?

jca2's avatar

Trump always wins? Talking about grabbing women’s pussies and mocking physically challenged people is what you call winning?

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Insane. Absolute insanity.

Yellowdog's avatar

Tell you what. We are in a cold war with China. China is claiming parts of the world and international waters for which there is no historic precedent or basis. They are supplying N. Korea and other hostile regimes with food and supplies. They have military satellites that can take out ours. They have stolen a lot of technology and intellectual property from virtually everyone.

I know that you are probably rooting for China if it means the demise of Trump. But Trump will do with China what Reagan did to the U.S.S.R.

Hillary or Biden would be making billions off China in times like these. The rest of yours are just too plain incompetent. Can you imagine Beto dealing with China?

Darth_Algar's avatar

I don’t know whether to pity you or laugh at you.

raum's avatar

#WhyNotBoth

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Yellowdog Why do you hate anyone who even vaguely questions Trump and his politics?

stanleybmanly's avatar

@Yellowdog If what you say is true, you should remind yourself that the Chinese have and are achieving their goals with OUR money as the virtual entirety of our industrial base was transferred to that country in the interests of short term quarterly profits. The consequent rust belt refugees flock to the camp of this for salvation, enabling a certified jackass as President—solid testament to the adage that good sense exits in tandem with your job. The fire sale of our manufacturing sector is the clearest proof of Marx’s proverb that a “capitalist is the man who will sell you the rope with which to hang him.”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You can NOT argue that in the least, and you can thank our North American including Canada Rich fucks for shipping all our manufacturing jobs over there for a bigger profit and cheaper labour.
We handed it to them now people say we have to fear them?

Yellowdog's avatar

well, you are at right that rich people got us In this mess. No one is going to stop doing business with China. Both ends of the Panama canal, Facebook and Google, all bow down to China

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I get that you don’t like some of the things Trump does. BUT…there is vitriol that comes out about Trump that goes WAY beyond simple dislike. It’s no secret that I didn’t like Obama. I felt he fanned the flames of racial divide, I felt he was leading our country in a direction that was not good, I will tell you until my dying day that he violated the Constitution at will. But I didn’t refer to him as “moron”, “fool”, “pig”, “cruel” “narcissist”, “pervert” or any of the other terms that are thrown at Trump by you guys on these pages on a regular basis. I never even called him some of the names I saw those on the right calling him since I find that to be a sign of hatred as well. I didn’t turn every conversation to an Obama bashing.
When you look at this obsessive hatred that pours out against Trump, you have to wonder where it’s coming from. And my questions to you brought it right back to Hillary losing the election. Yes, you saw things about Trump in the papers long before he ran for POTUS. Did you obsess on him then? Did you refer to him as “Trump” or by some other description? No…you didn’t. Yet now, you cannot help but dig in on Trump in many conversations. Heck, I’ve seen plenty of innocuous questions on these pages that had nothing to do with politics or Trump that can’t make it more than 3 or 4 answers before someone tosses in a Trump bash. THAT is obsessive hatred. And as soon as one person does it, there are more and more that pile on, trying to outdo each other on their ability to slam him.
Face it…you folks on the left only really began this hate of Trump because he won against Hillary.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I probably will not change my views of Trump because I see them as a healthy balance of good and bad. No reason to change them. I see some of the things he has done that I think are good, such as tax cuts, that you spout the liberal talking point about how it’s just for the rich. I know that is a liberal talking point because you are Canadian…you didn’t see any impact at all from the tax cuts so all you have are the talking points you hear on liberal news outlets. I see inflation is good, unemployment is going in the right direction…there are a number of things I see that are good for this country that can be tracked right back to Trump. But I also see things he does that I don’t like and have talked about them repeatedly on these pages. I find his incessant Tweeting to be annoying and childish. I think he gets into personal attacks when he probably shouldn’t which is childish. I don’t think he has done enough to reel in spending. But then that is also an indictment of Congress since they control the purse strings. But see? That’s the difference…I can see things that I don’t like and can voice them without the vitriol. I can see good and bad and can discuss them rationally. So I don’t see a real reason to change my views. You say I love the guy, but I suspect what you are saying is that I will not mindlessly hate and attack the guy.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_lll I love how you continue to prove me right!
“Tumps moronic bigotry and pretend superiority (while he’s actually suffering from acute insecurity) speaks to the heart and souls of his supporters. He is just like them. He’s a selfish pig and so are they.”
How perfect! You show your hatred of the guy (as we now know is due to him beating Hillary in the election) and you slam him AND include anyone that you deem to be a Trump supporter. You lump them all together and make it personal against them! Just like you do all men! You should be proud…you are a perfect example of what the left is looking for….someone that will spew hatred against anyone that thinks differently than the left and actually believe it.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly I offered you a chance to play, but you declined. You let @SQUEEKY2 prove my point for us. However, if you would like me to dissect one of your diatribes, I could do that too since it will bring us back to the exact same point…you are still wrapped up around the idea that Hillary lost. Let it go, man! Let it go. She lost and Trump is POTUS.

jca2's avatar

Obama was always dignified. Never a buffoon. Never made fun of handicapped people. Never made comments about grabbing women by the pussy. Never made comments about dead people as if they were alive. As I stated previously, George Dubya looks great compared to this and George Dubya, at the time, gave comedians a lot to joke about. I’d take George Dubya over this in a heartbeat.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@jca2 Most conservatives would too. G.W . was no statesman either though. Obama did not deserve some of the trashing the right gave him but as bad as Trump is what is now coming from the left seems worse. Nothing is off limits and the vocal ones are really showing themselves.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 Except Obama did stir the racial pot several times when it was wholly inappropriate. Remember the events that led to Beergate? How about Ferguson MO? Trayvon Martin? Each of these cases had two common aspects. All of them dealt with race and all of them showed Obama’s attitude towards police in general. And in all of them he jumped in on the side of the blacks without knowing all the facts…or without caring. Sure, he was polished, but if you polish a turd, it’s still a turd. I agree that Trump is not polished…he never claimed to be. He is a different style. Brash, loud, childish…yet strangely effective.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@seawulf575 I wouldn’t call him effective, lets at least be honest about that. He is a polarizing bull in a china shop. That’s not the leadership we need.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh and not let’s forget he went out and screwed a porn star while his attractive wife was home pregnant with their child,yeah outstanding morals.

Trump brings this all out on himself, says he is for the working people yet
has no trouble screwing his own working people.

His tariffs could send us into a recession , that is North America wide and maybe the world, hope I am wrong, but if right will he still be your shining star?
Yeah he came to my attention with his casino deals,thought another rich shit screwing the working joe.
Came to my attention again when he ran for office,isn’t this the guy that pulled those casino bankruptcy scams? now he his running for US president, are you kidding me?
What got me to dislike him was his starting this trade war, that affected us here in Canada.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

OK @SQUEEKY2 if you’re going to play that game at least he did not solicit a blowjob from an intern in the white house of all places. I don’t recall Trump doing hard drugs like cocaine either.

I see the tariffs as a huge gamble, One that may pay high dividends or send the economy tanking. Time will tell, this one concerns me. Half of Trump incited issues would never happen if they would just take his Twitter away.

jca2's avatar

Stock markets have been very volatile lately after news of Trump’s tariff war.

JLeslie's avatar

How the fuck can Obama be blamed for the events that lead to “Beergate? How about Ferguson MO? Trayvon Martin?”

That is the most absurd statement I’ve ever heard. Obama caused Zimmerman to defy police orders, pursue Trayvon, and kill him? You actually think that situation would have been different if say Trump was president? Any other president? What a load of crap.

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575: You call Trump “strangely effective?” We are the laughing stock of the world. He has alienated friends from Mexico to Canada to Denmark and beyond. The stock market has taken several real nose dives in the past few weeks thanks to the tariff situation. “Winning!”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me I wasn’t comparing him to Bill,and yeah that had the morals of a horndog as well I will admit it .

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 In Bills defense, a sex scandal is small compared to the plethora of issues we are dealing with now. If the tariff_economy isnt lined out, Trump will lose. Its a risky gamble for all of us.

seawulf575's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me I have to wonder, though, how much of the polarization is actually due to Trump and how much is due to the biased media and the Dems that want to create rhetoric for him? This has been discussed in other threads. Many of the “racist” or “divisive” things that are attributed to Trump are actually taken way out of context or made up. Yet if you say he is racist enough, some people will believe it. Saying Baltimore is rat and rodent infested is not racist, yet that is what was said on multiple news outlets and by Democrat politicians.
As for his effectiveness, the economy is going great, unemployment is down especially with minorities, jobs are up and they are good jobs, not a bunch of part time jobs, average household income is up…these are all good things in my mind. And all these things were done by Trump with zero help and much resistance by the Dems and biased reporting from the media. So yeah, I stand by the strangely effective comment.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

People are wondering why a Canadian is so concerned over what the President of another country does and so on, his stupid tariffs have already caused a huge blow to BC’s forest industry.
His actions are more like a spoiled rich kid ,rather than the leader of one of the most powerful nations on earth.
We are coming up to the end of his first term and his loyal sheep are still blaming the guy before him.
I remember the right didn’t like that when someone blamed GW.Bush for something just a short time into Obamas term, was told leave him out of it his term is over type thing.
Amazing how the right can still blame Obama almost four years in the Don Fathers term.

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575: Apparently you don’t follow the stock market. If you followed it, you’d see that things are far from rosy.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 strangely effective? What an obtuse view of reality you promulgate here. The strange effects attributed to the fool are manifest and cataclysmic. He has reduced the greatest country in the history of the world to an erratic practical joke reflecting his own petty cruelty and stunning bad taste. He has systemically flooded vital Federal offices with criminals and morons as inept as himself to such an extent that no individual of competence or integrity would be caught dead heading up those agencies. He has taken the recovery handed him by his predecessor and initiated a senseless trade war threatening the world economy and knifing his base of farmers in the back. He’s made a point of cozying up to every champion of evil on the world stage, while in effect dismantling the Federal government at home. He is a solid catastrophe for you idiot conservatives, his country and the world, and has done more to undermine the concept of public service in 3 short years than the combined malfeasance in the country’s history prior to his election. And YOU come here insisting that it is bad press smearing the loathsome pig rather than the oinking and rooting driving the story. What a moron. Just one idiotic conclusion after another. We pick on Trump because he lacks Obama’s polish? And our bias is proven because we didn’t give Obama a bad time? As if Obama or anyone in the history of the modern world flooded the news cycle with reprehensible stupidities to the extent of this fool. And you are as hopelessly ignorant and inept as the fool himself in your insistence that it is coverage of the pig which is reprehensible rather than the malicious and stunningly deplorable words and deeds of the pig itself. You’re a fool and there are circumstances in which you would be a dangerous fool. Here, you will remain the bad joke worthy of defending another fool of your own caliber.

jca2's avatar

Let’s not forget that he called McCain, a war hero and 5 year POW, “not a hero.”

stanleybmanly's avatar

The list is literally too long and disgusting to contemplate. There are actually people trying to keep track of that list, and it amounts to trying to tally grains of corn in a field.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I didn’t say Obama was responsible for the events that led to those things. I said his reaction to them was racist, divisive and inappropriate. Take them all and what did we see? Something happened…some event. The cops took action and Obama stepped in to suggest the cops were racist, that they were targeting minorities. When all the facts come to light to the public, we find in each of these cases he was 100% wrong. With Beergate, it was a buddy of his that locked himself out of his house. A neighbor called the cops, seeing someone trying to break in. The cops responded, established that he was the owner and were satisfied. But the owner then pushed the race button, accusing the cops of being racist. He got loud and obnoxious and was warned about disturbing the peace. He continued so he was arrested for disturbing the peace. Obama immediately jumped in, implying the cops target black people. When that started to blow up in his face, he tried settling things with Beergate. Take Trayvon Martin. A tragedy to be sure, but one that Martin played a large part in making happen. When he was shot by the guy he was beating up, the cops came and took the shooter in. When they questioned him and got statements from the witnesses, they called it self-defense. Obama jumped in claiming if he had a son it could be Trayvon Martin. He pushed his DoJ to have the local cops arrest Zimmerman for the shooting. In the end, he was let go because all the evidence supported his story. But the damage was done…the cops didn’t prosecute because Trayvon was black…that was the story that was pushed by Obama and his lackeys. Move on to Ferguson. Black guy (Michael Brown) steals from a store, strong arms the owner, then, in an unrelated moment, walks up the middle of the street, blocking the cop car. When asked to move, he physically attacked the cop in his car and tries to get his gun. Then he walks away. When the cop gets out to arrest him, he attacks again and gets shot. Only one witness claims Brown was on his knees with his hands up when the cop shot him. That witness happens to be Brown’s buddy who was involved in all the previous stuff. Many other witnesses…all black…told a story that matched identically to Officer Wilson’s version of events. Yet, Obama speaks out about cops shooting blacks and sending his DoJ down to ensure the cop was prosecuted. And yet, when all was said and done, the cop was let go because it was a justified shooting. Meanwhile, we have race riots and a cop’s career and reputation are entirely ruined.
So while Obama did not initiate or was even involved in the events that happened, he made sure we all knew that race was THE reason when, in fact, it wasn’t.

Demosthenes's avatar

The Ferguson riots were of course not just a result of a single incident; they were the boiling over of years of tensions between residents and cops, but the false narratives surrounding the Michael Brown shooting (the “hands up, don’t shoot” BS that became a rallying cry for protesters which was based on a lie) helped fuel the fire and we didn’t have much help from officials, including Obama, who fanned the flames.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Listen none of this matters. It is beyond pointless to drag up other “villains” for comparison once they are in the shadow of the unprecedented calamity the size and scope of Trump. Such comparisons are in effect pitiful deflections from an astounding truth that none of us have been conditioned to accept, but which must NEVER be allowed to pass as just the price of politics.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

NOW THAT IS AN EXCELLENT ANSWER!! Sorry for screaming @stanleybmanly but it really was great wish I could give you five thousand GA points for it.
And before anybody gets their butt all out of sorts yes I have been guilty of it to in the past.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

It was a good post, except for one thing: Obviously there is a segment of the population who have allowed themselves to be conditioned to accept virtually every idiotic thing he does.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@jca2 The recent tumble is just that, recent. Year to date the DOW is up 10% There was a little tech bubble that deflated earlier so 10% is quite a good year considering. News media touts gloom and doom on the stock market but that’s just not reality. Aside from trade war talk there is nothing driving the market down.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@Dutchess III. The truth in what you say is apparent only to those not convinced that Hillary is worse. With that as a fallback their position is less assailable than if a vote were taken today. Things which were clearly visible at the outset are no longer possible to ignore and the observer come out with a diagnosis of sentient.

seawulf575's avatar

Yes, @stanleybmanly I know how horrible you think Trump is. Especially since he beat Hillary.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

He didn’t beat Hillary.

And admit it. You have no clue what @stanleybmanly said in his last two comments.

seawulf575's avatar

Of course I understand what @stanleybmanly is saying. I just don’t agree with him. And I know that in your world that makes me somehow evil since (a) I am a man and (b) I don’t toe the line.

seawulf575's avatar

And @Dutchess_lll, who is sitting in the Oval Office? It isn’t Hillary, so yes, Trump beat her.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Dutchess_lll He is in the Oval office and not Hillary. You can say she won the popular vote sure but that’s not exactly how it works.
Would Hillary be worse… Depends on what policies she intended to push. Through her entire campaign I never saw a good picture of what she intended to do once given the keys. During the election both her and Trump scared me more than any other candidates ever have.

Dutchess_III's avatar

No, Hillary would have been miles and away a much better choice. For one, she’s sane.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 You really do not understand what stanleybmanly is saying. I don’t think for a moment that you are evil. Your ideas are dangerous, and your exertions toward denying the truth considerable, but I don’t care how obtuse you pretend to be or how enterprising your machinations at conjuring up demons to match the fool’s liabilities, Trump is out there by himself. Had you the sense that God gives a whippoorwill you wouldn’t mention the fool’s name in the same sentence as Obama’s. Now I have a question for you, because to this day you don’t understand why I oppose Trump with such vehemence. And let me clue you in that just as with the guns, it has nothing to do with distorted liberal values. Why my animosity toward the fool?

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Dutchess_III Trump is sane too. Narcissistic people are not insane. I got those vibes from Hillary also, she was just not as brash about it. I found their personalities to be almost identical: Self centered, dangerously narcissistic, power hungry, potentially sociopathic…
I have disliked Trump ever since seeing him on the apprentice. My wife called it though…she said “you watch, he’ll run for president.” I was thinking not a chance in hell. Boy was I wrong about that.

stanleybmanly's avatar

His sanity is up for grabs. But I will tell you what he is not. Trump does not fit my definition of an evil man, any more than you might grade a wolf evil for devouring livestock.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

All presidents and leaders of state are going to be somewhat narcissistic. You’d have to have supreme confidence to even think you could do such a job!
But Trump’s narcissism is combined with gross incompetence and stupidity.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

If I’m being serious and honest, I believe based on his behavior that he is in early stages of dementia. For that I do not hate the man, I pity him. Also, statistics show that mental decline begins in mid-life. Why we elect people for such a critical role waaay past their prime is beyond me. It would seem that someone in their mid fifties would be ideal. Trump is 73, Hillary is 71. Just let that sink in for a moment. You can call me ageist for that and I’ll own it and stand by it. We don’t need our leaders with one foot in the geriatric ward. On the flip side we don’t need them green and right out of school either.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Now that I totally agree with^^^^^^^^.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

Agreed @ARE_you_kidding_me. Then we found out Reagan was in the early stages when he was president.

Dutchess_lll's avatar

And GW was just simple too. The thing is when Reagan and GW were president they were controlled by staff who took their guardianship seriously. Condalisa Rice comes to mind.
Trump is surrounded by thieves and criminals.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly You wouldn’t mention Trump’s name in the same sentence as Obama’s because you really get uncomfortable with that comparison…plain and simply. You idolize Obama who tried (with the help of the Dems) to violate the Constitution at every turn (which you have a hard time admitting). He lied repeatedly (which you cannot acknowledge either). He was a practicing racist, sowed dissension, and tried ruining our nation by running it into the Socialism ditch. Trump has lied…that is true. And I have admitted it before. He doesn’t lie as much as the left likes to claim, though. Remember all the “lies” he told about being involved with Russia? Funny how no one on the left…yourself included…came out and actually said you were wrong about him lying on that. But the difference is I can admit he lied and you cannot admit Obama lied. Trump has NOT violated the Constitution. He really has NOT show racist qualities, except when the media tries rewriting his words or taking things out of context. He HAS brought our economy to a really good point with great gains in employment in minorities especially. The dissension we are seeing these days is almost 100% due to the left and the liberal media. Not surprising since Obama led the way and he was on the left. And he is fighting against moving into Socialism. He is far from my ideal choice for President, but I will give him credit where it is due and I will not jump into the kool-aid bowl with those of you with your irrational hatred towards all things non-uber-left.
But I know when you read this you will go into apoplexy. I can almost hear you sputtering already. But while you will gladly attack me on my opinions, here’s the difference…I can support my views of Trump…you cannot support your views of Obama. Al least not without ignoring many facts.

stanleybmanly's avatar

You just can’t help sticking your jaw out there can you? I’m going to give you some advice for all the good it will do. Only a fool would deliberately introduce Obama and lying into ANY conversation about Trump! Have you lost your mind? And Obama—practicing racist? sewing dissension? In the shadow of Trump, you make claims like this? My reaction isn’t apoplexy. By now I’m accustomed to your bizarre take on reality. But look at these assertions, Obama running the country into the ditch of socialism? Yes of course, by bailing out Wall St and the banks. How could I have missed it?! Trump has not violated the Constitution, while Obama uses the document for toilet paper? You actually believe the verdict on Russia decided and over? I idolize Obama? And still the tiresome claim about the press and left fomenting division and hate. Tell me the truth. Can you name a President in your lifetime more hateful or divisive than the orange wonder? Who do you know since ADOLF more adept at arousing hate than the fool?

But never mind any of the above. I attack your views because they are asinine, inconsistent and fly in the face of common sense, let alone visible reality.

seawulf575's avatar

Can I name a president in my lifetime more hateful and divisive that Trump? I already did…Obama. I even backed it up with actual proof…not liberal talking points and created stories. As I said…Obama is your idol and cannot bear the thought he was a horrible president.

stanleybmanly's avatar

You haven’t backed up a damned thing. You just make accusations so silly that I feel sorry for you. To contend that Trump gets an unjustifiable bad rap, while Obama was hateful and divisive is beyond stupid. It is downright delusional and a clearcut distortion of reality.

seawulf575's avatar

You know and I know that I have repeated the facts over and over. The real problem is you. You don’t want to acknowledge the facts. You don’t want to admit Obama lied even though there is ample proof of it. You don’t want to admit Obama violated the Constitution at will and that the Dems were complicit in that violation. You don’t want to admit that the liberal bias has repeatedly taken Trump out of context, lied about him, made false claims about him, created narratives, and have generally created every talking point you have. That isn’t to say Trump hasn’t lied, or that he isn’t a bully or any of that. It IS to say that you are duped and I would suggest you knowingly go along with the deception. And ALL of this comes back to the fact that Trump beat Hillary in the election.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Actually, it’s rather a novel tactic declaring Obama the lying racist, but it is a cheap and rather desperate tactic of deflection from the issue of the fool. As I told you previously, you’re wasting your time trying to drag up other villains to compensate for the fool’s heinous and scandalous missteps. Seriously, you are out there by yourself with this preposterous crap and your credibility flees further South with your every attempt to bring to bring it up. Meanwhile, my Sunday paper awaits with the guarantee that the front page will once again blare out some fkup last night or this morning by guess who?

seawulf575's avatar

And I have challenged you before to list the “fool’s heinous and scandalous missteps”. I have put forth the opinion…and have backed it up with example after example…that most of those “missteps” can actually be traced back to something the liberal media created whether through fictional writing or taking out of context statements and then changing the entire meaning. Yet not surprisingly, you have entirely avoided giving any actual support of your claims. You generally try some tired old tactic of stating that any fool should know that and how it is beneath you to engage with fools over things like that. To me that sounds exactly like “I have no idea and can’t really find anything, so I will act like you are the fool so you will shut up”. And you should know by now that doesn’t work with me.

stanleybmanly's avatar

There are lists and examples of the fool’s transgressions littering this very page. What is wrong with you? The preponderance of the news . cycle is ALWAYS dominated by his screw ups, other news is always dependably trumped by the fool’s flagrantly inappropriate and always dependable reaction to it. Try for example countering the extensive list provided 9 of my posts prior to this one on this very thread. Tell us how his cooked up trade war doesn’t brutally punish his farm base, then explain how the Democrats made him do it. Which democrat or news organizations forced him to stuff key federal agencies with morons and criminals? Read the list and reply if you can.

seawulf575's avatar

And there it is…the dodge. I challenged you to actually support your claims and you refer back to a diatribe you gave earlier. You don’t even understand the difference between reality and opinion. You spewed hateful opinion for a long paragraph and called that a list. I could tear your list apart and show it to you as the opinion it is, but really, why bother? You didn’t list a single thing that wasn’t a created talking point from your propagandists. It was all opinion. What I am looking for is some examples. For instance, you make the claim that he took a recovery handed to him by his predecessor and created a senseless trade war. That is an opinion, and to me it is an ill-informed one. It makes a gross and inaccurate assumption that there was a recovery handed to him. There wasn’t. Obama drove the country into the dirt. The economy we are seeing today was due to actions instituted by Trump and, indeed, the view of investors that the bad old days were gone now that Obama was out of office. So your assumption was wrong. It goes on to make the conclusion that the “trade war” is senseless. I view it as a gamble. We, in this country, have labored under unfair trade agreements for way too long. Trump is doing things to level the playing field so we can actually start competing again. The tariffs he has instituted on other nations are for two reasons…to equalize the trade deficit we have put up with for decades and to put some pressure on other nations to start being more fair with us. I will say it makes me a bit nervous but it could put us WAY up in the trade world and boost our economy like nothing else has. The downside is that it could cause certain areas of our economy to struggle. But neither one of those is a given. You have already looked into your crystal ball and sworn you know the truth. Just like you were 100% sure he had worked with Russia to interfere with the 2016 election. And you were 100% wrong on that as well.
So, skippy, I leave the challenge on the table. If you are going to make a claim against Trump, show me your proof. If you want to say he is a racist, show me what you are basing that on. And again, I am certain you will try to dodge away since all you have is spew.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Trumpers think that if they can bring Obama into discussions about trump it will drag Obama down and build trump up. But, in their hearts, they know there is no comparison and it drives them mad with jealousy, just like the mere mention of Obama’s name drives trump mad with jealousy. The First Baby even cancelled his trip to Greenland probably because Obama is going to be there in a couple of weeks.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575. Do me a favor and continue to tear my list apart as you threatened so that I might continue making a fool of myself. I’m obviously enjoying it as much as yourself. Obama drove the country into the dirt???

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I did post facts about Trumps many lies you scoffed them off as left wing rehtoric, but we are supposed to take yours as holy as the Bible?
A while back some one checking Obama’s lies against Trump’s
Trump was at 42% out right pants on fire lies
Obama was at 11% outright pants on fire lies.
That was at that time a few years back.
See and you hate Obama for his socalist views,How dare he care for the working joe.
Universal health care= affordable health care not in your life time if you can’t afford it then just crawl off and die.
A living wage, the horrors the wealthy wont make as much profit, oops sorry it will hurt all small business and send the economy into the crapper we need those wage slaves working for peanuts,how else is the rich going to get richer?
Did Obama lie during his term, yeah show me a u.s president that hasn’t.
But Obama fails in the lying department when compared to the great lying machine known as Trump.

Demosthenes's avatar

This whole conversation has become a farce. You can’t demand someone support their claims while at the same refusing to support yours and dismissing any support presented as “propaganda”. Either go through the claims point by point and address them with facts or don’t. But all this gaslighting isn’t real debate.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I agree. But I find this man’s view of reality fascinating. Does anyone else remember when Obama “drove the country into the dirt”? Is it misleading to state that Obama left Trump a recovering economy? That’s how I remember it. He unquestionably left that economy better than he found it. Did Trump initiate a trade war or is that merely another undocumented opinion? Here’s an opinion, the requested documentation for which appears to me sadly abundant. Our friend is coming apart at the seams. He has more in common with his defendant than sympathy—a lot more, particularly regarding his concept of reality snd a truly casual relationship with objective truth. Too bad.

seawulf575's avatar

@Demosthenes if @stanleybmanly presented actual claims instead of opinion I would be happy to debate it. But his list is nothing but fervored nonsense. It would be like me claiming he was a complete imbecile and then demand that he debate it and prove it wrong. It doesn’t matter what he says, he will still be a complete imbecile to me. Now…if he actually presented facts I would be happy to debate it.

stanleybmanly's avatar

See what I mean?

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly let’s review the facts. During Obama’s reign, median incomes for most of the country held steady or went down. The only group that increased was the top 5%...you know….the rich. As soon as Trump took over ALL the income groups started going up.

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/dshort/updates/2018/10/16/u-s-household-incomes-a-51-year-perspective

His signature law, the Affordable Care Act actually drove healthcare costs up in the long run, not down.

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/

He lied about it saying people would save $2500/year on healthcare costs. The immediate result was that health insurance premiums went up, the deductibles went up, and the coverage went down. If you liked your doctor, oftentimes you couldn’t keep your doctor as they stopped accepting the new insurances. Hospitals and clinics closed. He even had to violate the Constitution by unilaterally deciding to postpone the employer mandate kicking in. It was specified in the ACA when that was to kick in. The only ones that could change that would be Congress. They did nothing and yet he postponed it. A clear violation of changing laws by the Executive branch. Meanwhile, as Trump took over, healthcare costs actually went down a little and stabilized

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-spending-healthcare-changed-time/

He is now being looked at for using the US intelligence agencies to spy on a political opponent. Thanks to the Russia probe you were so hot to trot about, it now looks like the FBI and the DoJ and even possibly Obama himself were instrumental in illegal activities.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/did-obama-surveil-trump-sure-looks-that-way/

And when the IG report comes out, you will find more details and we will revisit this claim.

So now I have supported my statements and yet, as always, you have not. Care to take your turn?

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s always that way with @seawulf575, @stanleybmanly. Always.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 DEFLECTION. All that crap above has not one single thing to do with the UNDENIABLE FUCKING FACT THAT OBAMA HANDED TRUMP A RECOVERING ECONOMY.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly just as I suspected. You repeat something you cannot defend. Your proof? Let’s see the citations buddy boy. Otherwise you are just being a sniveling liar.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Please, you cannot possibly be living in the free world and require me to prove that Obama left office with the American economy in recovery from the 08 recession. What is wrong with you? Seriously, have you been in a coma somewhere or locked in a closet at FOX news? I mean what’s to be proved? I mean did the recession and recovery occur or not?

Dutchess_III's avatar

From this source

In February 2009, Congress approved Obama’s $787 billion economic stimulus package. It cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded public works projects.
The recession ended in July 2009 when GDP growth turned positive.
In just seven months, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act pumped $241.9 billion into the economy. That increased growth to a robust 3.9 percent rate by early 2010. By March 30, 2011, almost all ($633.5 billion) of the funds were spent.

Obama bailed out the U.S. auto industry on March 30, 2009. The federal government took over General Motors and Chrysler, saving three million jobs. It forced the companies to become more fuel efficient and therefore more globally competitive.

In July 2010, the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act improved regulation of eight areas that led to the financial crisis. The Consumer Financial Protection Agency reduced harmful practices of credit cards and mortgages. The Financial Stability Oversight Council regulated hedge funds and banks that became too big to fail. The “Volcker Rule” banned banks from risking losses with their depositors’ money. Dodd-Frank clarified which agencies regulated which banks, stopping banks from cherry-picking their regulators.

Dodd-Frank directed the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. These regulated the riskiest derivatives, like credit default swaps and commodities futures. Dodd-Frank also asked the SEC to recommend how the credit rating agencies, like Moody’s and Standard & Poor’s, could be improved.

You catch all that @seawulf575?

stanleybmanly's avatar

Wulfie’s explanation as retired submariner makes sense if he was confined on that sub for 30 years or more. Other than that, it just doesn’t add up. Who lives through then forgets the recession that nearly wrecked the world? Anyone have any ideas?

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly so you have nothing to back up any of your claims. That means you are making it all up. So I will treat you as a blowhard and just assume everything you say is made up. After all…it is. @Demosthenes…you want to chime in here? I supported my statements as you felt I should. You going to jump in on @stanleybmanly to push him to do the same? Or are you just blowing hot air too?

stanleybmanly's avatar

You want me to prove that there was a recession in 2008 and prove that it was gone in 2016? You want to hold Demosthenes to account for not “chiming in” to the perceived necessity for proof? I’m developing concerns for your mental state.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III You pull up a site that cites itself as proof of its claims? Please. Let’s review your claims.
Obama put almost a trillion dollars into the first economic stimulus package. It did absolutely nothing, really. There are questions as to whether it slowed the downward trend of the economy or if it would have slowed anyway. And in the end, it really did nothing towards boosting the economy. So he tried it again. And got no results. So he tried it again. Along the way, he made sure his cronies got their cut. Remember Solyandra? Half a billion dollars gone into thin air and a company closed down, putting people out of work. Who got that money? Big donors to Obama’s campaign. So before you take a liberal talking point and call it fact, you might want to see what the other side has to say as well. Then you can make an informed decision
The ARRA was another spending bill that was touted as being the great thing to boost the economy. Again…it really did nothing. There were signs the economy was already turning so spending almost another quarter of a trillion really can’t be said to have done anything…except by those that want to boost Obama…or Obama himself.
The bail out of the US auto industry is another lovely action. He took over GM and Chrysler and “led” them through reorganization (read as bankruptcy). He then “loaned” them around $65B which has never been paid back. He then violated the Constitution by giving the unions priority on getting money from the bankruptcy instead of all creditors sharing the pain.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Columns/2012/10/17/Obamas-Auto-Bailout-Was-Really-a-Hefty-Union-Payoff
Dodd-Frank. This was a good idea in theory. But it was so onerous to small banks that it had the effect of punishing them and protecting the “too big to fail” banks. It was acknowledged to be a less than stellar effort and was walked back by the Economic Growth, Regulatory Relief and Consumer Protection Act in 2018.

Yeah, @Dutchess_III, I caught all that….did you?

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly Yyaawwwn-n-n-n-n-n. I don’t see any citations backing up your claims. You wanted me to argue against your warped beliefs and I did. Now I suggest you do the same to support them.

Dutchess_III's avatar

You pull up a site that cites itself as proof of its claims? What are you blathering about?

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
SQUEEKY2's avatar

It doesn’t matter what link you provide @stanleybmanly he will just scoff it off as left wing propaganda.
But we are supposed to gobble all his up as gospel truth.
He is either blindly ignorant or just trying to get you mad by not admitting your economy was gaining ground at the end of Obama’s term and just before The Don Father took the wheel.
I wonder how he is going to blame Obama for when his trade war sends us all into a global recession.

Response moderated
Response moderated (Personal Attack)
stanleybmanly's avatar

He isn’t real.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Funny the 2 posts above you were moderated, and they call us all hate.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Yes. We were too hard on our friend. But he uses the exact tactics as his client.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The gun thing again. Folks, once again it isn’t about political divisiveness or the fact that partisan tempers flare. The motivations are as variable as the people. MY wife left me, it’s too damned hot, I lost my job, I can’t get laid.

So now the schools are implementing shooter drills, and everyone’s screaming for legislation. On this one, Wulfie is sadly correct. It’s all a colossal waste of time. You litter a convent or monastery with automatic weapons, and a year later everyone in the surrounding community is baffled by the inexplicable rise in church shootings. GO FIGURE!

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