General Question

Strauss's avatar

Bill Clinton lied, George W. Bush lied, and Donald Trump lied. What, in your opinion, is the difference?

Asked by Strauss (20580points) 1 month ago

When Bill Clinton lied, it resulted in an impeachment, for which he was acquitted. It also gave a certain White House intern a certain amount of notoriety and a mention in history books. When George W. Bush lied. It resulted in military actions, the results of which are still being felt today. What, in your opinion, will be the fallout of Donald Trump’s lying?

I know this can be a potential bombshell, so let’s try to be polite and respectful of one another’s opinions.

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42 Answers

LadyMarissa's avatar

The US will become a third world country!!!

filmfann's avatar

Clinton lied about getting a blowjob. Result: he sleeps on the sofa for a couple months.

Bush lied. Result: the United States goes to war with Iraq.

Trump lies and lies and lies. Result: he has invited other countries to undermine American elections, he extorts help with his reelection from other countries, and he financially benefits from legislation he pushes through.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Clinton looked straight into the camera and flat out lied to our faces. That was my very first vote ever. It was nasty, too.

The other two, meh, not always intentional ignorance but some. Not good at statecraft.

Trump may win again, I’m not counting him out yet at all. His base are loyal.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

The other two, meh

100,000+ people died thanks to the Bush administration lies. They led directly to the creation of ISIS. People are still dying every day in the region thanks to Republican voters.

When you equate that to an affair between consenting adults, it really shows your values and ethics.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Call Me Jay The other two are puppets to some degree. Bush isnt a genius and Trump is a bull in a china shop. Edited- The Clintons have blood on their hands, too.

And minimizing Bill’s lies and sex addiction, along with being a national embarrasment, is sexist at minimum imo.
Dont dog Trump for years over words and excuse it in Bill’s behavior on the worldwide stage. Geesh.

josie's avatar

I’m shocked
Are you saying that politicians lie?

Stache's avatar

Bill Clinton later admitted to lying.

Did Bush? I can’t remember.

I know for a fact Trump would never admit to lying.

Stache's avatar

@knowitall Don’t dog Trump for words? He has several dozen women making claims of harassment, rape and abuse. Why do Republicans only get away with this? Al Franken lost his position over a few complaints. Why is Trump immune?

Zaku's avatar

Trump has lied and directly contradicted himself very very frequently even before he was elected.

Clinton wasn’t impeached just for lying, but for lying under oath and for obstruction of justice in the context of a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Trump has so far not been impeached, and Bush got away with it while Clinton did not entirely get away with it, due to the behavior of Congress, and probably also due to obstruction of justice and the corporate media legitimizing Trump because Trump has been an immensely profitable scapegoat by constantly enacting pro-corporate giveaway measures.

seawulf575's avatar

I said long ago that all politicians lie. You left Obama off the list as well, if you are looking at POTUS’s. They all lie. All our Congressmen and women, Senators, governors, state reps and sens, mayors….they all lie. Some lies are big, some are small. All are used for political reasons…to benefit themselves in some way.
I will say that while I disagree with our going into Iraq under Bush II, he wasn’t alone in believing there were WMDs there. If you remember there was an entire UN coalition that believed it. There was a UN task force to go inspect for them and Saddam was blocking them right and left. So it is likely there were, at least at one time, WMDs there. So I’m not sure that is a huge lie as much as bad intel. But that doesn’t allow us to just jump right in

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

You know how to tell when a politician is lying right?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf Yeah, Hillary and other Dems voted for Iraq, too. How quickly people forget.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^The Dems didn’t authorize anybody to go invade Iraq. I do remember thinking giving Bush more authority to fight terrorism was like giving a kid with ADD live grenades to play with.

JLeslie's avatar

If Trump and Bush lied about having sex outside of their marriages I wouldn’t give a damn, just like I didn’t about Clinton. it doesn’t affect the American people As long as he is doing his job and not using tax money. Imagine if every man who cheated on his wife was fired from their jobs—we’d be paying higher taxes just supporting bunches of families now on welfare. I mean seriously, it could have been one of your parents, neighbors, spouses, friends, or children.

Bush, spent a lot of tax dollars, and a lot of soldiers were killed. Trump has parts of the world thinking the US is off balance and not trustworthy.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

The difference with Clinton is he was diddling a White House intern, not just cheating. That crosses another ethical line.

Trump cheated with a porn star and lied too if you remember but as far as we know he was not screwing around with students-interns.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@mazingerz88 My problem is that some Dems clearly aren’t looking to see who voted for what before throwing digs at Reps. Clinton clearly voted for this law in Joint Resolution, along with 28 other Democrats So neither of the two parties are innocent. The Independent voted no, however.

The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] informally known as the Iraq Resolution, is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No. 107–243, authorizing the use of the United States Armed Forces against Saddam Hussein’s Iraq government in what would be known as Operation Iraqi Freedom.[2]

House:
215 (96.4%) of 223 Republican Representatives voted for the resolution.
82 (39.2%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted for the resolution.
6 (<2.7%) of 223 Republican Representatives voted against the resolution: Reps. Duncan (R-TN), Hostettler (R-IN), Houghton (R-NY), Leach (R-IA), Morella (R-MD), Paul (R-TX).
126 (~60.3%) of 209 Democratic Representatives voted against the resolution.
The only Independent Representative voted against the resolution: Rep. Sanders (I-VT)
Reps. Ortiz (D-TX), Roukema (R-NJ), and Stump (R-AZ) did not vote on the resolution.

Senate:
29 (58%) of 50 Democratic senators voted for the resolution. Those voting for the resolution were:
Sens. Baucus (D-MT), Bayh (D-IN), Biden (D-DE), Breaux (D-LA), Cantwell (D-WA), Carnahan (D-MO), Carper (D-DE), Cleland (D-GA),

Clinton (D-NY),

Daschle (D-SD), Dodd (D-CT), Dorgan (D-ND), Edwards (D-NC), Feinstein (D-CA), Harkin (D-IA), Hollings (D-SC), Johnson (D-SD), Kerry (D-MA), Kohl (D-WI), Landrieu (D-LA), Lieberman (D-CT), Lincoln (D-AR), Miller (D-GA), Nelson (D-FL), Nelson (D-NE), Reid (D-NV), Rockefeller (D-WV), Schumer (D-NY), and Torricelli (D-NJ).

21 (42%) of 50 Democratic Senators voted against the resolution. Those voting against the resolution were:
Sens. Akaka (D-HI), Bingaman (D-NM), Boxer (D-CA), Byrd (D-WV), Conrad (D-ND), Corzine (D-NJ), Dayton (D-MN), Durbin (D-IL), Feingold (D-WI), Graham (D-FL), Inouye (D-HI), Kennedy (D-MA), Leahy (D-VT), Levin (D-MI), Mikulski (D-MD), Murray (D-WA), Reed (D-RI), Sarbanes (D-MD), Stabenow (D-MI), Wellstone (D-MN), and Wyden (D-OR).

1 (2%) of 49 Republican senators voted against the resolution: Sen. Chafee (R-RI).
The only independent senator voted against the resolution: Sen. Jeffords (I-VT)

mazingerz88's avatar

Reps get more attacks than Dems with regards to Iraq because it was a Republican President who made that ultimate decision and messed it up from day one.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@mazingerz88 We could debate this but I’m not excusing Bush completely. I don’t believe it was all an intelligence failure. My entire point is that neither party are innocent when it comes to lies and loss of life.

He also supplied excerpts from Bush’s 2010 memoir, in which the president reflects that even countries opposed to the war, such as Germany, agreed that Iraq had WMDs. “The conclusion that Saddam had WMD was nearly a universal consensus. My predecessor believed it. Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill believed it. Intelligence agencies in Germany, France, Great Britain, Russia, China, and Egypt believed it,” Bush wrote in “Decision Points.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/03/22/iraq-war-wmds-an-intelligence-failure-or-white-house-spin/

Okay, then Dems can take all the credit for Don’t Ask Don’t Tell 2/28/94 instituted by the Clinton Administration. As well as the failure of a massive healthcare reform act that allowed Reps control of both houses of Congress (1994.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don%27t_ask,_don%27t_tell

https://www.biography.com/us-president/bill-clinton

MODS PLEASE NOTE: The actual votes in my post above were from this link. (Cannot Edit)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorization_for_Use_of_Military_Force_Against_Iraq_Resolution_of_2002

JLeslie's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me Agreed. Clinton did cross lines, before and during his presidency, when it comes to sex and power.

LadyMarissa's avatar

ALL politicians lie. Now I’ve discovered that the non-poitician can’t tell a lie from the truth!!!

flutherother's avatar

The difference is that while Bill Clinton, George Bush and other politicians may at times get caught out in a lie they at least accept, as do most of us, that there is such a thing as truth. The willingness to acknowledge the truth, however difficult and bitter it might be, is what made America great and the trouble with Trump is that he has doesn’t believe such a thing exists. For Trump, like any cheap dictator, the truth is whatever he wants it to be, or whatever he believes his supporters want it to be.

seawulf575's avatar

@Stache “He has several dozen women making claims of harassment, rape and abuse.” The same could be said about Clinton. Kathleen Willey, Juanita Broaddrick, Paula Jones, Eileen Wellstone, Carolyn Moffet, Christy Zercher all accused Bill of sexual assault and/or rape. Yet did anyone ever actually follow up? Nope. Paula Jones finally brought a lawsuit for $750,000 in damages which Bill eventually settled out of court for $850,000. Seems odd if he was innocent. So while you are trying to find blame with Republicans, you might want to ask why Democrats and particularly Bill Clinton is exempt from focus.

seawulf575's avatar

@Stache Oh! I almost forgot…let’s not forget the Jeffrey Epstein connection. Trump admits to flying on Epstein’s plane one time for convenience. The left went crazy about this swearing up and down he was a pedophile. Yet when it comes out that Bill Clinton was a frequent flyer on the “Lolita Express” and frequented his private island, the MSM and the left want to clam up and not talk about it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 Sexual harassment is okay if it’s good ole Bill, Wulfie. Obviously.

seawulf575's avatar

@KNOWITALL I know….and #MeToo doesn’t apply either. It’s more like #Don’tAskDon’tTellBill

Darth_Algar's avatar

Clinton lied about a private issue. Yes, he lied in front of Congress and was duly reprimanded for it, but it’s not really a question that should have been asked to begin with. Bush lied and destabilized and destabilized an entire region. The repercussions of Bush’s lies are still being felt to this day, more than a decade and a half later. Trump’s lies have every rational adult on this planet questioning his mental state and have resulted in a serious loss of prestige for the United States.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth_Algar A private issue? Wow, you all need to read the transcripts again and refresh your memory.

Obama’s campaign promise “no new boots on the ground”
After winning: “Well, about that…...”

Obama was in there 8 years, why didn’t he fix it?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

Yes, a private issue. A consenting adult got a blowjob from another consenting adult who wasn’t his wife. That’s no one’s concern except him and his wife’s. Just like I don’t give a shit if Trump paid a porn star to fuck him every day. That’s between him and his wife, no one else. Unless it involves me and my spouse what other people do with their genitalia is no concern of mine.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Darth_Algar Ahhh, no. Clinton abused his power and got an intern to fool around with him. Had that kind of behavior happened at a corporation the CEO would have probably been ousted overnight. Had she not been in her position I would agree with you.

Queue the rimshot..

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth Remind me to post the very long list of sexual inappropriate behavior by both parties. Details are pretty crazy. Or google sometime.

It comes down to across the board standards, really. Simple as that.

Stache's avatar

I never said it was okay for Bill Clinton. The problem with some of you is you’ll defer to whataboutism and not admit that Trump is equally guilty, if not worse. And if you think Trump hung out with Epstein only once you are a fool.

Bill Clinton is trash concerning this subject. Let’s hear you say the same about Trump.

…crickets…

I thought Clinton was a great President but I abhor the things I’ve heard about him concerning women. Trump supporters don’t have the guts to say the same about their savior. Cowards.

seawulf575's avatar

@Darth_Algar You are partially correct. The part that says Clinton’s blowjob should never have been a focus of the investigation. But really…wasn’t it a whistleblower that came forward that opened that door? The part you are missing about the entire affair is the when of the lie. To lie on the campaign trail or even in a news interview is one thing. To lie under oath in a federal investigation is a felony offense called Perjury. And he compounded the lie by trying to use the power of his office to stop the investigation. These are the exact crimes the Dems were trying to pin on Trump in the Russia Collusion investigation, yet couldn’t.

seawulf575's avatar

@Stache I find it amusing that whenever one of you fools on the left get called out for your foolishness, you pull out the “whataboutism”. Here’s a clue, dude….I didn’t change topics. Clinton is in the original question. When someone asks a question concerning the lies of several presidents and Clinton is one of them, commenting on those lies is entirely appropriate and not a “whataboutism”. “Whataboutism” is the liberal way of saying “I don’t like the sense you are making…it hurts my fantasy world.”

seawulf575's avatar

And, dear boy, I have stated repeatedly that if Trump was guilty of doing things like this, he should be hung out to dry, Here’s the difference: Someone accuses Trump and it looks amazingly like a political ploy or an effort to gain fame or money, I don’t take that as a proof of guilt. But let’s compare. Let’s take Alva Johnson and Juanita Broaddrick. Ms Johnson says Trump tried to kiss her on the mouth but she turned her head and that it was creepy. She eventually brought a lawsuit against Trump which she later dropped…amazingly after Trump’s lawyers brought up a video of the event and it contradicted her story entirely. Mrs. Broaddrick says she wanted to work on Clinton’s gubernatorial campaign in 1978. Bill agreed to meet her in the coffee shop of the hotel where she was staying. Upon meeting, Bill suggested they move back to her room to avoid reporters and other distractions. Once in the room she says he grabbed her and kissed her and it surprised her. When he tried again, she refused, but Bill forced himself, biting her lip, throwing her to the bed and raping her. She shared the room with another woman who came back a while later and found Mrs Broaddrick with a lip that looked like she had been hit, torn clothes and panty hose and who looked like she was in a state of shock. She (Juanita) did not go to the police or the reporters because she knew she couldn’t get justice. When Bill ran for president, this story emerged again, from her husband. Investigators questioned her and she told them she would not speak out because she knew they couldn’t get to him, that, in her words, he was just too vicious. Later she did come forward. Her story has not changed on bit in the 40 years since the alleged event happened.
So let’s look at those two stories. In one the “victim” made a claim of an unwanted kiss and tried getting money for it. This effort was dropped when video evidence showed the truth of the matter. In the other, the “victim” had a supporting witness to part of her story (her roommate that found her in a state of dishevelment). This “victim” did not go forward for fear and lack of faith that the system would hold the powerful person accountable. Later she did come forward but really has nothing to gain from it. So let me ask…which is the more believable story? Which is the more heinous act involved? So how can you even compare them and say “Trump is just as guilty”?

basstrom188's avatar

All politicians lie

Darth_Algar's avatar

@seawulf575 “The part you are missing about the entire affair is the when of the lie.”

No, as a matter of fact I specifically mentioned the “when”. I know you often struggle to see what’s plainly in front of you, but this is sad even by your usual standards.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me “Ahhh, no. Clinton abused his power and got an intern to fool around with him. Had that kind of behavior happened at a corporation the CEO would have probably been ousted overnight. Had she not been in her position I would agree with you.”

And yet in some 20 years since Lewinski herself has never given any indication that Clinton abused his power over her or that it was any thing but an entirely willing participant.

seawulf575's avatar

@Darth_Algar the “when” is not in front of Congress…it’s UNDER OATH. That is the when that really matters. Lying then is called perjury. And being reprimanded is a gentle way of saying he was impeached. And saying Bush II lied is also assuming a lot. It makes the assumption that he knew the data was wrong and willfully said it anyway. If he knew the data was wrong, then so did a number of other countries with pretty good intelligence agencies. So apparently they all lied as well?

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Darth_Algar Yeah she did, she even said in a couple different interviews he should apologize to her for it which he never has.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me

She didn’t say he should apologize for the act (which she maintains she was a consenting participant in), but rather for lying about it later. Huge difference.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Um, yes, she did.

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