Social Question

Demosthenes's avatar

What do you think of what's going on in Minneapolis right now?

Asked by Demosthenes (9557points) 1 month ago

Just looking for any thoughts on:
-The death of George Floyd
-The actions of the Minneapolis police department
-The looting and rioting that is occurring now in the wake of this incident.

What do you think should’ve happened to the police officers? Is looting and rioting in the wake of such incidents inevitable?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

110 Answers

hmmmmmm's avatar

This is just another case of a cell phone catching cops murdering a black man.

The police officers should be arrested and tried for murder. Immediately.

This isn’t rioting as much as a reasonable expression of frustration and anger. <- Even saying this is problematic in some way because it implies that such actions require an explanation or justification. They don’t.

jca2's avatar

Amazing we have this shit happening with the cops doing awful things, captured on video (thank god for video), when almost 30 years ago we had Rodney King, same thing. Cops behaving terribly, no excuse, no logic. No wonder people are mad, outraged, disgusted.

They said the man was resisting arrest. Meanwhile, when you look at video of him being taken out of the car and cuffed, he doesn’t look like he was resisting arrest to me.

I don’t know why the cops aren’t in jail right now. Why the delay?

Demosthenes's avatar

Right. Part of my problem is the fact that this keeps happening. It seems then that there should be a way to prevent. Both the death of someone like George Floyd and the riots that ensue. Why do we just accept this entire cycle as an inevitability?

hmmmmmm's avatar

^ If the “riots” are a result of systemic injustice and the perpetual murdering of black men and women by the state, maybe resolving this should be the priority, rather than worrying about insured property destruction/theft.

zenvelo's avatar

1. Armed protesters circle the Minnesota State House. No intervention by police, no police presence evident. White protesters

2.Mourning protesters march to police station, met with police outfitted in riot gear and preparing to tear gas the crowd, Mostly black protesters.

Arrest the policeman murderers, put in jail on no bail warrants until trial.

chyna's avatar

It makes me angry.
Angry that another cop thought it was ok to treat a human being that way. Angry that he knew he was being recorded and didn’t stop. That leads me to think he thought he could get away with hurting/killing another human being.
Angry that the 17 year old that recorded the murder is now getting death threats. People thought she should have helped instead of recording the murder. There were 3 other cops there not helping. What could she do but record it for evidence.
All four cops should be in jail. Now.

janbb's avatar

I simply cannot understand why policemen are still pulling this shit. It can only be because they get away with it.

It is way past time to change the systemic racism that prevails in this country..

Darth_Algar's avatar

A riot is the language of the unheard.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Old habits die hard. These incidents reflect the way business was routinely done prior to the widespread proliferation of recording devices. The event with the woman and the bird watcher emphasizes exactly what every black person regardless of their social standing KNOWS concerning life in America. Our society as a whole is completely unaware of just how pervasive and ingrained such assumptions are structurally integrated into the tapestry of America. That woman with her dog didn’t even have to think on it. She is probably a decent woman with not a grain of willful bigotry in her makeup. Yet in a moment of panic, she KNEW what to do. It was absolutely instinctive. She completely failed to factor in the camera and jumped immediately to “my white woman’s word against that of a black man.” And of course bring in the cops, and bingo—the American trifecta.

Patty_Melt's avatar

The mayor looks genuinely stunned and concerned.
No way this will get closeted.

As far as looting and vandalism, it does not instill any confidence for police to respect people of that community where these things are taking place.

I understand anguish and frustration, but those activities are not helpful.

Lots of racism comes not from hate, but fear. How can violence and aggression overcome fear?

Peaceful gatherings, correspondence, turning away from a desire to lash out is more productive.

The four officers should definitely be jailed and stand trial. I am certain that will happen.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@Patty_Melt: “As far as looting and vandalism, it does not instill any confidence for police to respect people of that community where these things are taking place.”

Then can all of them and hire people from the community. I don’t give a shit about pigs’ feelings. You think “behaving” is going to stop hundreds of years of this?

@Patty_Melt: “Peaceful gatherings, correspondence, turning away from a desire to lash out is more productive.”

For christ’s sake, do you think this is an organized attempt at overcoming white supremacy, police violence, and systemic oppression that has existed for hundreds of years? It’s not. It’s a reasonable and justified expression of anger and frustration.

Honestly, I’m surprised this revolt isn’t happening more often and on a larger scale. If you feel change needs to happen, and you look to the community with the boot on their neck to change, you are part of the problem.

I’m a pale white guy, and I can tell you with certainty that what I have witnessed is nothing compared to what I would do in their shoes. Nothing.

This rebellion is good. We need more.

zenvelo's avatar

@Patty_Melt ”... it does not instill any confidence for police to respect people of that community” is completely ass backwards. Police murdering of non violent suspects does not instill any confidence for people to respect the police.

The police are the public servants here, and should be on bended knee seeking forgiveness from the community. .All of the Police, from the Chief on down.

Soubresaut's avatar

“The four officers should definitely be jailed and stand trial. I am certain that will happen.” >> I feel like I should also add that this is not a guarantee in these situations, even the ones that have widely distributed video footage. That’s part of the problem.

General comment for the OP: It’s beyond sickening that people have to stand there and film their neighbors or loved ones being killed time and again for this issue to even become part of the national discussion, and even then part of the discussion is critique over what would be the “better way” to express the outrage that this level of racist brutality is still a part of the country’s civil law enforcement system, only to be addressed in individual cases after someone’s dead because of it.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

It’s infuriating injustice and abuse of power. People are rightfully outraged and expressing it. I don’t “agree” with looting, but at the same time I recognize that people are human and when dealing with extreme anger, frustration, injustice, etc that has not been remedied with more peaceful approaches, they resort to more aggressive action, I have a real damn hard time getting upset about it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

The murder was sick and I feel intentional. All the people standing there begging the cops to let him up to breathe and they didn’t. To me that’s intentional homicide with witnesses and a recording. No way out.

My many cop friends are utterly disgusted at the situation.

As far as rioting and looting, I’m not a minority so I’m not going to judge them for their grieving process, frustration and anger. And fear for their own families and children’s safety.

And no one here can tell me that a peaceable, all white crowd wouldn’t be taken more seriously without rioting.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Patty_Melt “Peaceful gatherings, correspondence, turning away from a desire to lash out is more productive.”

History has not borne that out. Look at Los Angeles back in the day – a police department notorious for its brutality against minority suspects, lead by a flagrantly racist police chief. All the pleading and speaking out and peaceful gatherings the world did nothing. It was only when those being abused burned the fucking city down that things began to change even slightly.

In the late 1950s it was only after blacks began arming themselves and forcefully defending their communities that whites started to cease committing violence against them. Granted this did not end all white violence against blacks, but it staunched it enough to allow blacks to engage in the peaceful protests that came later.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Response moderated
Demosthenes's avatar

Sometimes violence is the only language people understand. Unfortunately I don’t think rioting has that much of an aim behind it, especially when these things attract people who are just looking to cause a little chaos and want to see things burn. They’re not working for some noble cause.

Response moderated
kritiper's avatar

The death of the victim and the actions of certain police officers is deplorable. As for any and all that can’t protest peacefully, they should be shot on sight.

Response moderated
CelestialIncognito's avatar

The past can not be undone. The present, with courage, can introduce change- such as, counseling for the injured person’s family, officers involved, officers’ families and general public. Help people to help people? Change the future today?

janbb's avatar

@CelestialIncognito That’s a nice thought but changing the future doesn’t help the many people who have already been killed unfairly by cops. The change needs to be here already and it isn’t,

Brian1946's avatar

@Darth_Algar

Thanks for the pic.

It gives me a lot more respect for Kobe than I had before, especially if he had outgrown his homophobia before he passed.

kritiper's avatar

@Darth_Algar Sorry, I don’t have the time to wait for my slow DUM to download whatever it is that you wanted to point out to me.
What I said before stands. If some people are going to act in uncivilized ways, they need to be treated accordingly. No exceptions!

Darth_Algar's avatar

@kritiper

Are you on an early 1980s baud modem? It’s a simple jpeg. It takes all of a second and I’m guessing you’re not that pressed for time (otherwise you wouldn’t be farting around here).

KNOWITALL's avatar

@kritiper Well he did have a point in that any form of protest other than peaceful, is ignored seemingly. And still they continue to die while white America wrings our hands in uncomfortable states.

What can we do to help people feel heard and feel safe? Because nothing has worked as of this week.

Jonsblond's avatar

I’m watching the precinct burn on live television right now while this song plays in my head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5fts7bj-so

The song has NSFW words.

JLeslie's avatar

I heard Floyd worked at a bar as a bouncer with that cop for years. Is that true? Then he is truly a sadist, but we already knew that. My heart breaks for that man. He was tortured! He knew he was dying in his last minutes, he was in pain and couldn’t breath. How will his family and the people who witnessed what happened ever sleep soundly again, and for African Americans in general the story is like a trigger of all justices felt before.

Those cops should be in jail! Especially, the cop on his neck, jail without bail. If a black man had sat on a white man’s neck until he died would he be in jail? I’m sure he would. His neck! His main blood supply to his brain, and he couldn’t breath. That cop should not have another free day.

I don’t understand looting and setting fire to businesses. What did the businesses do?

I understand why they set fire to the police station, the outrage they must feel makes people understandably out of their minds with anger. I personally wish it was not a protest with so much destruction. It hurts their community in the end, the property in the community. What about those store owners? People will see it as the wrong way to get justice. I don’t think setting things on fire brings on change, the biggest changes are usually brought on by calm persistence. Setting fires is dangerous, more people could get hurt. I don’t really support it, but I don’t really support trying to stop it either once it was in full swing. I think they had to have an outlet to let out their anger somehow. Obviously, I’m conflicted. I think they should have been protesting every day until that cop was arrested, but not setting fires. There could be protests all over the country in protest, but not fires.

Where the hell are good cops speaking out? They should be out there saying how horrific this death is. Maybe that could have avoided fires being set.

JLeslie's avatar

I just read they weren’t setting fires until after police were using tear gas and using sponge bullets or something like that. I don’t know all of the details.

ucme's avatar

Tyranny begets tyranny.

seawulf575's avatar

I think that Minneapolis has a problem with its police force. Wasn’t it just back in 2017 that an officer shot and killed a woman in her pajamas that had called 911? So there is something more than just a bad cop. Besides, none of the other cops at the scene did anything to stop this action against Mr. Floyd. So I entirely understand the outrage by the people. They are tired of living in fear of the cops and want to see swift justice.
HOWEVER…none of that excuses rioting and looting and acting like animals. What is currently going on is just plain wrong. And when I see this video, and see rioters attacking an old woman in a mobility chair, I can’t find any sympathy with their efforts at all. They aren’t protesting, they are animals.

snowberry's avatar

Part of the problem is that the police protect their own. It’s called “the blue wall” for a reason, and I have seen it and experienced it over and over.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@seawulf575 – Your response is objectively racist an intentionally ignorant.

And not that it needs defending, but yeah, that “elderly” woman is in her 30s and we all watched this in real time as she tried to defend Target from looters by wielding a knife and tried to stab people.

There’s nothing I can say to convince you of the fact that this revolt is good, appropriate, and completely justified. So, I won’t waste our time.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@hmmmmm So you think MLK would have approved?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@JLeslie “People will see it as the wrong way to get justice.”

A riot isn’t about justice. It’s about making yourself heard when your pleas have been ignored time and time and time again. It’s about taking action so drastic that folks have no choice but to pay attention.

Our Founding Fathers asked their country for justice. They were ignored. They pleaded. They petitioned their government. They protested. They boycotted. They calmly did everything they were suppose to do as loyal Englishmen. They were still ignored. Then they took to the streets. They rioted, they looted, they vandalized, they destroyed property. They still did not receive the justice they sought. Then they took up arms…

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL “So you think MLK would have approved?”

“But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again.” – Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

SEKA's avatar

They have started arresting news reporters for covering the news. What are they hiding?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth_Algar “He is also remembered for his urge to use nonviolence as the most effective form of protest (even when violence was threatened against him and his family), and his strong desire to bring about equality and civil rights for African Americans during the civil-rights movement.”
https://www.history.com/news/for-martin-luther-king-jr-nonviolent-protest-never-meant-wait-and-see

chyna's avatar

@SEKA Yes, but they aren’t arresting murderers.

Dutchess_III's avatar

There is a certain subset of humans (mainly young men) who relish the opportunity to behave violently. They like rioting.
I was in a riot once, in the late 70s. Many of the guys around me were just having a blast.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

Yes, he chose the non-violent approach himself. That does not mean that he did not understand the riot and what drove people to riot. Since his assassination White America has attempted (and largely succeeded) to co-opt Dr. King’s legacy and distort it into that of the pliant, agreeable, “yessir, thank ya, sir”, passive negro. At the time King’s non-violent protests were only marginally more palatable to white folks than men like Malcolm X and Huey Newton. Hell, the FBI sent King a letter basically telling him to kill himself or they would destroy his reputation.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Darth_Algar Tell that “yassir” thing to Michelle Obama!

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth_Algar Yes, I understand it, too. But does understanding why someone broke the law excuse them from repercussions?

As far as MLK, they ended up killing him anyway, peaceful or not, sadly. So how can they win the race war? I see very few paths forward until white people decide to change, or are encouraged to change by compassion, empathy and understanding.

The Black Panther Party had the same issues in the Vietnam era, and to me that was a huge re-bound.

#7/10 What We Want NOW!: We want an immediate end to POLICE BRUTALITY and MURDER of Black people.

Also #7 on the What We Believe:
We believe we can end police brutality in our Black community by organizing Black self-defense groups that are dedicated to defending our Black community from racist police oppression and brutality. The second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States gives us the right to bear arms. We therefore believe that all Black people should arm themselves for self-defense.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL

When blacks are routinely killed by police even when they are following the law (“I was scared for my life” or “they matched a description” or “they took an aggressive stance” or “they did not comply”...) then what else is there for them to do? Meanwhile they see white “patriots” break the law with impunity and walk away with no repercussions whatsoever.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth_Algar Do you have an example of white patriots breaking the law with impunity and no repercussions?
I feel like we’re on the same side of the issue here, I just disagree that rioting and violence leads to peaceful resolution. It generally leads to more violence.
We saw this here in Ferguson and a black Police Chief was promoted which seemed to appease the rioters. Do you think a more minority heavy police force would help decrease the rage?

zenvelo's avatar

When the same system that refuses to protect black children comes out to protect windows, what is valued over black people in America becomes very clear, One cannot discuss the immorality of damaging property without devaluing the rage that brought protesters to this point.

Nothing gets the attention of the elite like taking away or destroying what they value above all else: property.

from “The Black Riot,” by Raven Rakia

JLeslie's avatar

The more I see what’s happening the more I am against any violence or fires in these protests. I think it’s great people are protesting around the country (I hope they are distancing, masks) but destroying property and endangering others isn’t the way.

What if it was a different group destroying property? Jews after the synagogue shootings, children after school shootings, what if protestors in your town coming out in solidarity set you your police department on fire and loot stores in your town?

kritiper's avatar

@Darth_Algar “You can’t have your cake and eat it, too.”
Some people learn.
Some people only learn the hard way.
Some people NEVER learn.

zenvelo's avatar

A black reporter covering the murder of a black man was arrested before the white man that committed the murder.

hmmmmmm's avatar

^ link

EDIT: Changed link to extended video.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@hmmmmmm Thanks, I wasn’t sure what he was referring to specifically, as I’ve been working.

JLeslie's avatar

FINALLY police officers around the country are condemning what this officer did, and condemning the actions and inaction of the three officers that participated or stood by.

I just heard they did arrest the officer who had his knee on Floyd’s throat.

KNOWITALL's avatar

George Floyd’s girlfriend said that the riots in Minneapolis in response to his death would “devastate” him as she called for peaceful protests.

Courteney Ross, Floyd’s girlfriend for the past three years, told The Star Tribune she is “heartbroken” by the riots that occurred Wednesday.

“Waking up this morning to see Minneapolis on fire would be something that would devastate Floyd. He loved the city. He came here [from Houston] and stayed here for the people and the opportunities. ... Floyd was a gentle giant. He was about love and about peace,” Ross said, adding that while she understands the frustration, “I want people to protest in a peaceful way.”

https://www.newsweek.com/george-floyds-girlfriend-says-riots-would-devastate-him-calls-peace-1507213?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR2BT2POcLeYU1bDlx1Kt7PcLeqbfj58ckj0OkNxCrnQlhoMvmx2Z9pDAuA#Echobox=1590699027

Demosthenes's avatar

So why did they wait for the city to burn down before arresting Derrick Chauvin? Seems a lot of this unrest could’ve been prevented.

JLeslie's avatar

@zenvelo I’m not so sure the elite own the property being destroyed. Nor do I think any elite suffer terribly with these actions. I don’t really agree with what you wrote. The insurance companies and taxpayer will pay for property to be rebuilt. I guess maybe you can say the insurance companies are part of the elite, but they just pass on costs to us, the consumer. The owners of the small businesses are out of business now. They looked like local businesses. I don’t know if they were open during the COVID situation, but they still lost property inside, even if they did not own the buildings.

What people want most is for those cops to be arrested and convicted and rot in jail, and for this type of innocent killing to stop. I was afraid if they didn’t arrest him fast enough he might kill himself. Maybe he is too egotistical and sociopathic to kill himself.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL “Do you have an example of white patriots breaking the law with impunity and no repercussions?”

You cannot be serious. There have been countless examples of this in our nation’s history. And plenty enough just in recent years alone. For example, there’s that lovely father and son duo out in Nevada. Cliven and Ammon Bundy, who have twice engaged in armed conflict against federal agents and walked away virtually scott free. In other examples our history is littered with examples of white men murdering blacks and being given a pass for it.

But you kinda seem to only see/hear what you want to hear. So I may be singing to the deaf here.

“I feel like we’re on the same side of the issue here”

I’m not too sure. You seem to be on the side of “settle down, be compliant and wait until, someday, White America is ready to listen to you”. I’m on the side of “burn the goddamn city to the ground if that’s what it takes for White America to listen to you”.

“I just disagree that rioting and violence leads to peaceful resolution. It generally leads to more violence.”

That’s nice, but you’re “disagreeing” with an argument I never made.

“Do you think a more minority heavy police force would help decrease the rage?”

People who’ve have the same experiences as them. Absolutely. As well as a police force that are actually a part of the communities they’re policing. Not a force of outsiders who live 25, 30, 40 miles away in some suburb and thus do not know nor understand the community.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Darth_Algar

1) Bundy got off on prosecutorial misconduct, the judge declared a mistrial and the charges were dismissed. That is not breaking the law with impunity to me.

2) No, actually I’m on the side of no more Americans being killed.

3) “It’s about taking action so drastic that folks have no choice but to pay attention.”
And more black people dying in the process.

4) See, there’s a possible solution.

Soubresaut's avatar

@JLeslie—I agree that is what people want most. I think the disagreement here is over the merits of chastising the looting and property destruction for being part of the reason this kind of injustice hasn’t been addressed. Taking the larger context into account (which is what I understand to be what many are trying to do in this conversation), “looters” aren’t what prevents this from being solved yet—that failure belongs to the inaction of others. And I think what we’re seeing now—while I recognize I am far removed from the situation—we see, as result of that larger failure, a group of people so fed up with being in fear for their lives that they are escalating their behavior to try and make this time different than all the other times, because they’ve tried everything else and don’t see any of it making a difference.

I also think there’s a difference between people in Minneapolis calling for their neighbors to use different means to reach their ends, or people lamenting the situation as a whole, and people from the outside publicly shaking their heads and saying “they just need to be more patient” (they have been) or “their actions aren’t going to make anyone want to help them” (as if a pattern of cops killing people based on race is something that people need to be convinced to want to fix).

It’s probably also worth remembering that the vast majority of people protesting aren’t looting or starting fires.

Demosthenes's avatar

@Darth_Algar How about armed protesters storming government buildings in Michigan? Where was the tear gas and rubber bullets then? That is at least an example of how certainly protests are treated more lightly. Of course maybe the difference is that they’re armed. If the protesters in Minneapolis were armed, it’d be a freakin’ bloodbath.

JLeslie's avatar

@Soubresaut I basically agree with everything you said. I posted on facebook two days ago a link and wrote to arrest the cop! A friend of mine replied that there has to be due process and when her niece was murdered the waiting was awful, but they have to investigate and gather evidence. She was saying to be patient. To that my response was I am all for due process, but we already have evidence to arrest him! We have video, witnesses, what more do you need to arrest? I wanted him arrested, in jail, and awaiting trial. I do fear he will be let out on bail, we shall see.

I don’t even think the protesting should necessarily stop just because he was arrested. I think better organized (safer) protests, can happen, even if it is in small numbers, going on constantly, all day, for weeks and months in many cities maybe if they want to maintain a presence and the subject in the public eye.

I think the subject will stay with us, especially if it looks like Klobuchar is still a possibility for VP.

When all of this protesting first started I kept think about football players taking a knee and protest and the republicans turning that into an affront against out flag and our soldiers who fought for our country, and back then I said it, and I say it now, that is ridiculous! What are the Republicans doing, trying to take away every avenue to seek attention for a cause and to show unity? A completely non-violent act, that did not interrupt the game, to show their disappointment with the country and their concern for citizens of our country. Black people and those who support them cannot demonstrate in a non-violent way or violent way I guess according to these people that turn everything EVERYTHING into being antiAmerican and against God. They are doing it with COVID. I really believe the WS starts this shit and then the Republicans pick up on it and repeat it and internalize it like it is the gospel, and not agreeing is going to bring down the sky. They blow it into some sort of crazy idea that they rationalize. Their way of putting it back on the African Americans, distracting from the issue at hand, and changing the story. It is also a way to keep the country divided. Division helps create fierce loyalty and action.

I am just as worried as everyone. Worried for minorities and worried for the United States of America.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie Wow, I’ve read your post three times and still can’t believe it.

Demosthenes's avatar

Chauvin has been charged with third-degree murder. So…it’s something. Hopefully things will calm down a bit now. Still think this could’ve been done sooner.

JLeslie's avatar

@KNOWITALL Which part? By the way I am NOT calling Republicans WS, I am saying I believe that often times the WS is starting the memes, the messaging, the false Covid numbers, the anti-vax, all sorts of garbage, and they market it towards Republicans. Not all Republicans are of the same mind of course. The left has some propaganda going on also. There are messages being propagated all around us and too many Americans are not thinking for themselves.

If a Republican, white, Christian, had taken the first knee to protest something the Republicans en masse would have been saying that’s what our soldiers fought for. I’m sure of it.

Edit: I had a girlfriend freaking out Pelosi said Trump was overweight and should be careful taking the hydroxchloroquine and you can be sure if Trump said that about a heavy Democrat Republicans would be defending that he said it out of concern. My friend was disgusted Pelosi went after Trump’s weight and then a day later Trump is calling women ugly or some other derogatory thing and my friend could care less. Tired of the hypocrisy and blind eye. I would bet you are too.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@JLeslie I need time to process it.

zenvelo's avatar

@JLeslie Pelosi also qualified her statement regarding Trump being morbidly obese (he is) with a statement that she was responding to Trumps way of describing people.

JLeslie's avatar

@zenvelo I missed that. I think Pelosi was wrong to comment on his weight at all, I said it as soon as I saw it. Although, I do believe she was commenting that he is more at risk, because of his weight. Honestly, in my opinion he is not that heavy, not compared to most Americans. I take issue with any comments about his hair, weight, all of it, because I take issue with comments about Hillary’s hair, weight, pant suits, and every other politician. I can understand people wanting to know the physical health of a presidential candidate, but once they are president all bets are off. Plenty of people are obese, have crappy haircuts, eat poorly, smoke, and have bad fashion choices, and are still smart and good at their jobs. There should be no negative commentary on it. I am fine with a compliment, but if people have nothing good to say I think they should not say anything at all.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Trump is one case where I’m fine with people belittling his appearance, since belittling people’s appearance is one of Trump’s favorite tactics. As you sow, so you shall reap…

JLeslie's avatar

@Darth_Algar I completely disagree. I have said it all along. I hate the name calling, I hate all that garbage. But we can agree to disagree.

JLeslie's avatar

Look at what is happening. The violence has to stop. Innocent people are going to get hurt. Innocent business owners are being hurt. People aren’t wearing masks, aren’t distancing, protestors could be killing themselves and their families. Bad people are taking advantage of the situation. Protest all day like I’ve said, but safely.

This is what the late Dr. King had to say about it…
“Let me say as I’ve always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. ... But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. [Martin Luther King Jr., “The Other America”]

SEKA's avatar

Trevor Noah‘s take on the whys .

JLeslie's avatar

@SEKA Great video. Like I said I understand the anger, the fear, the sadness, the anxiety, the despair, and he’s right about the societal contract. BUT, he also said with this murder the ENTIRE nation basically was standing together, was horrified, demanding an arrest, and that moment of unity is being destroyed. That moment to be able to say, this is what we have been talking about is being destroyed.

I spoke out when fires were set in the street for Elian Gonzalez, I spoke out when ANTIFA was setting fires on college campuses, I spoke out when people protested at the Michigan Capitol with rifles and confederate flags. When they marched in Charlottesville with flames. I am consistent regarding protesting and violence, I’m against the violence or implication of violence, but I do understand why there is so much fury among the black community. In this instance, the country stood with them, and now I fear that is being lost.

Media outlets saying people are risking their lives to participate in these protests, when two weeks ago they were saying protesting now could kill thousands. Those comments are counterproductive in the end. They will be viewed as hypocritical.

Police officers are finally speaking out against what happened, the entire country identified with George Floyd. He was tortured and killed.

Would you want those riots, or let’s call them uprising and civil unrest happening on your street? In your neighborhood? I don’t want that violence for anyone’s neighborhood.

A friend of mine just posted they set fire to the CNN building in Atlanta. Is that true? I understood burning down the Minneapolis police department, I wasn’t really on board with it, but I completely understood the emotion behind it. I don’t understand the looting and destroying business at all. You know there are had people taking advantage of this situation.

Destroying everything in a neighborhood, risking innocent lives. Not the way to go. It’s enough already.

hmmmmmm's avatar

This rebellion is good.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@JLeslie

Yeah, the country was “standing with them”. Like it always does, for a day or two before it decides that anything more than “standing with them” would just be too inconvenient. We’re great at paying lip service to causes. But when it comes to actually doing something our track record is woeful. Thus the rioting.

jca2's avatar

I understand all of the rage, to the extent that I can, but what is sad is that the end result is that these people who are living in that city are now out of stores that they may need for their diapers, formula, milk, whatever they may need to live. Now for the near future, they may need to take a ride or public transportation to another neighborhood to get their stuff. Store owners have insurance, and the big chains like Walgreens are not owned by locals, but the stores that are owned by locals and the neighborhood people are all going to suffer until everything is rebuilt.

JLeslie's avatar

As I think about this more, and the reply I wrote to @KNOWITALL and what I am seeing unfold on my TV screen and what people are saying, I think the WS and foreign governments are messaging to promote the violent uprising in our black communities too.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but we know it’s fact those factions and governments are using social media. What better way to sell more guns, or to create more division than to keep having violence or the threat of it break out? What better way than to destroy the rule of government than to cause this type of division in the country. I think they are messaging the right and the left.

Really think about it. The push for extreme behavior and looking at our own countrymen as the enemy will destroy us.

janbb's avatar

@JLeslie What is the “WS”?

JLeslie's avatar

@janbb White Supremacists.

Not only social media, but I also think there are ringers in those crowds.

chyna's avatar

Ringers?

JLeslie's avatar

@chyna People in those crowds there under false pretense.

SEKA's avatar

@JLeslie Any chance that the Russians are at work again? It has been claimed that they promoted the #Black Lives Matter campaign in order to push forward a plan for Charlottesville

As far as the CNN Center goes, the last report I saw showed them bashing in windows, using flash and bang devices with the cops using tear gas to disperse them. Someone in the crowd did light some sort of incendiary device but it wasn’t ever deployed at the time of my viewing. The cops were showing great restraint in this situation and were backing the protesters out of the building and out of the area at my last viewing

There was a peaceful protest in California as well where the protesters were blocking traffic on the 101.

There was also another riot style protest in Louisville KY. I didn’t watch that one unfold, but did see a white guy complaining that the cops had shot him in the eye with a rubber bullet. It appeared at the time that it was coming to an end, but I didn’t continue to watch assuming that I’d see more later in the day

I’m not even going to pretend that I understand their rage as I’ve never had to endure their pain that got them to this point. I feel they have a right to be enraged, but I don’t understand the need to destroy all around them. With mob mentality, all it takes is one person doing something insane to incite the entire group. I did notice in Atlanta that at one point the crowd was appearing to lose their steam when a white guy with a skateboard started bashing windows. A few moments later the crowd was whipped back into a fury, It may have been a coincidence, but I wondered at the time why he was there

Since I don’t have a solution, I’m not going to speculate as to how anyone should feel or react. If I was a betting woman, I’d put my money on the fact that the cop who was arrested on the bogus charge of 3rd degree murder will never be prosecuted

JLeslie's avatar

@SEKA I absolutely do think it could be Russia. Could be another country. Although, I have to say most of my money is on WS as an international group. They are at work here and in parts of Europe, probably other countries too.

Interesting a white person in Atlanta. I am very suspicious. That’s what I mean by ringers @chyna.

I can only imagine the rage the community justifiably feels. It is incredibly painful and crippling to feel abused on a constant basis and endangered. I have compared it previously to living in warlike conditions.

I worry he won’t be convicted, I do think he will be prosecuted.

Demosthenes's avatar

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/30/us/george-floyd-protests-saturday/index.html

Mayor of St. Paul says everyone arrested Friday night was from out-of-state. Not surprising at all. Opportunists looking to cause chaos.

JLeslie's avatar

It could be ANTIFA also, not just WS. I was just thinking about that. Both groups want to destroy the country in my opinion.

seawulf575's avatar

So with the information that the rioters are actually from out of state in some of these riots, does that change the views of some that this is somehow an honorable thing to be doing? It is more a case of anarchy.

JLeslie's avatar

I just talked to my friend who lives outside of Detroit and she said there were protests all day (I think she was talking about yesterday) and the news was reporting all day, and then at one point the news started saying the crowd was building again and that the new people coming inti the area who were protesting were more worked up and more out of control. She is thinking they were not local either.

@seawulf575 Do you agree those protests in Michigan and around the country with white men carrying rifles is anarchy? That it is White Supremacists at work trying to divide the country?

JLeslie's avatar

I just saw Los Angeles on my TV and the streets being torn up are full of white people. There is a black girl there asking them to stop. The cops are breaking it up. It’s not people in solidarity it is people destroying our country. This will not help black people this will drive things further apart and destroy some of their communities. Wake up. Why are any of you ok with this? They can’t stand to see solidarity they want division they want rebellion and strife and these young people are misguided if they think it will bring in better times, it is the end of times.

Demosthenes's avatar

I’m not convinced that some of this isn’t happening because of the pandemic. I think some people are venting pent up frustration with being cooped up in their homes for months. This is just the catalyst.

JLeslie's avatar

@Demosthenes I think COVID adds to it, but this is just more of the same that has been happening for years, starting with Obama in office, but ramping up to a fever pitch with Trump. The people suffering, out of work, it helps these factions. They want to make things worse not better. They may think the collateral damage is necessary for change, but it is disgusting, people are getting hurt and have died in demonstrations like this.

Darth_Algar's avatar

“Starting with Obama in office”?

Good fucking lord…

This shit has been going on forever. Fucking forever.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I’ll be honest…I haven’t seen enough of the crowds to have an opinion of the source. But I will tell you I don’t see any WS groups being large enough or organized enough to supply the resources necessary to “staff” the riots in all the cities that are being hit now. Not to mention, the pictures I HAVE seen show an awful lot of African Americans leading the protests. That doesn’t smack of WS. Nor do I see black people being inspired by WS to protest and riot. Not to mention I can’t see WS groups trying to create protests to support black people. Nor do I really see them carrying Black Lives Matter signs. Nor do I see what WS groups would gain with this sort of rioting. So I really can’t get behind the idea that it is WS groups behind all the mayhem.

JLeslie's avatar

I think the riots will help Trump get elected. He’s blaming ANTIFA, and I myself stated on the Q I wondered if it’s ANTIFA. The whole thing helps Trump. Ugh. I still think WS is present also and manipulating social media. I just can’t believe people who hate Trump can’t see it. It’s the same as 4 years ago, Democrats don’t understand what helps him. I’ve been trying for 4 years to tell people, and I’m always met with people thinking I’m the one defending him or helping him.

This morning, seeing the masses of people all over the nation and the destruction, I don’t think I’ve ever felt so sick about the future of America in my life. The African American people are being used.

I talked to a friend in Michigan yesterday, and she said no way Trump would win, because how Trump handled COVID19 With her state, and since it was such a hot spot, people were turning against him including her and her mother. Some of that gain will be lost with with these riots.

It’s terrifying. I don’t understand you people.

@seawulf575 White people all over the TV screens being cornered by the police. Maybe Fox isn’t showing that, my guess is after Trump’s speech Fox will be showing it more if they haven’t already. I’m not saying there aren’t black people protesting too.

hmmmmmm's avatar

The confusion expressed here related to nearly everything related to the current events (history, economics, groups, etc) is so great that it is impossible to address. I feel as though I’ve stumbled across some kind of meeting between Alex Jones, Hannity, and Richard Spencer.

This rebellion is very good, and gives me hope for the future. The reaction by the police state is exactly what the US uses as a pretense for invading other countries.

JLeslie's avatar

@hmmmmmm It helps Trump. You are fooling yourself.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I have no doubt there are white people in the crowds that are protesting. I get that. But I don’t watch a lot of news on TV. I find it all too biased. Yes, that includes Fox. I went and looked for photos and found some. There is a mix of white, black, and latino in these pics. And there are an awful lot of BLM signs in evidence. And maybe it was just the photographers, but there seem to be an awful lot of black people at the front lines. That is all I can say about the make up the the crowds. And it might not be accurate, or it might be. But I still can’t see the WS behind all this.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@JLeslie ” I’ve been trying for 4 years to tell people, and I’m always met with people thinking I’m the one defending him or helping him.”

I don’t think anyone believes that. It’s just that you often come across, whether you intend to or not, as talking down to/about marginalized people from your bubble in your nice little exclusive community in Florida.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf What I see is people who are all sick of police brutality and trying to show it together. Maybe not all in positive ways.
Even here (Trump country) the diverse ( mostly white honestly) crowd was aggressive in traffic. Mob mentality is a real thing, even with good intentions. Happy to post video.

seawulf575's avatar

@KNOWITALL Oh I know all about group think and mob mentality. I get it. And nothing is worse than a bad cop. Well, somethings are, but they are pretty abhorrent. But I still can’t get to a point of saying WS are leading or organizing these riots. I just don’t see it and can’t picture their motivation or their ability to enlist the help of black folks in their fight.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf Agreed. Anarchists though, maybe.

hmmmmmm's avatar

#IAmAntifa

janbb's avatar

@hmmmmmm So you’ve been out demonstrating at times? Cool!

Dutchess_III's avatar

I glanced through the comments, and one thing that wasn’t addressed was the fact that those that are looting and burning businesses are not protesters. They’re just looters. They’re just young men looking for excuses to expend the energy to act that way they are acting. They’re having fun. Therefore, the fact that the killer cop was arrested won’t change anything.

zenvelo's avatar

There are 40 million unemployed people right now who have witnessed corporate america looting the treasury for $3 trillion while the average unemployed person got #1200 stimulus and a few hundred in unemployment.

Failure to address these problems while hiding in a bunker is how revolutions start.

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther