General Question

YARNLADY's avatar

Where are the protesters when 49 black people kill 49 other black people in Chicago?

Asked by YARNLADY (44062points) 1 week ago

Let one white man kill one black man and the entire country erupts. Do black lives NOT matter when they are killed by blacks?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

34 Answers

Demosthenes's avatar

I would like to know the answer to this too, but I’ve never heard it. It’s always “that’s a deflection!” or “saying ‘black on black’ is racist”. But I want to know why “black lives matter” is only about police. Is it just because it’s more shocking, because the violence in Chicago/Baltimore/Detroit is rote and we are numbed to it? Is it because the police problem is more fixable? I’d just like to know. Protesters often call for changes, like defunding the police .That’s an easy slogan to shout that sounds like it will fix everything. It seems to me that if you truly believe black lives matter, you’ll think what’s going on cities like Chicago is just as disgusting as a police officer killing someone who shouldn’t have been killed. In the end, it’s still the loss of a black life. But I guess there’s no easy fix to shout.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Not “one white man” and not “one black man”. A police officer, coldly, almost casually, killing a black man in an ages long trend of unjustified killings and brutality of blacks by police officers.

If you can’t understand that by this point then you’re just being deliberately ignorant about it.

zenvelo's avatar

If a black man kills another black man, the police will work to catch the criminal, and the DA will work hard to prosecute the case and send the perpetrator to jail for life or possibly to death row.

If a cop kills a black man, the cop gets a couple weeks of desk duty or paid time off. No jail time, no prosecution, no loss of pension, no loss of job.

hmmmmmm's avatar

Wow. Ok. So, there are a few things you might want to learn about here…

- Since citizens murdering each other is a social ill that is a direct result of state policies from slavery to the present, most people who are “protesting” are also protesting the conditions that encourage non-police murder.

- Most conservatives and the right are aware of the above because they correctly point out that the left is not simply criticizing police violence. There is a larger analysis and critique here.

- The very things that we are calling for are the things that will reduce crime and despair in the community. So when you brush off calls for decreasing wealth and income inequality, stopping the war on drugs, ending private prisons, universal healthcare, reparations, etc, you’re saying that you approve of crime and murder.

- You might want to consider the very real difference between a citizen murdering another citizen and the state murdering a citizen. Spend some time here. It’s worthwhile.

- Most importantly, if you’re trying to find an excuse for state violence against its population, you’ve taken a wrong turn. You can – and should – support a people’s call to not be murdered by the state. And at the same time, you should be open to hearing about ways we can reduce class-related crime and murder.

Yellowdog's avatar

They are trying to spread a narrative that there is systemic racism and widespread murder of blacks by whites, especially police, in this country.

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Jonsblond's avatar

This question is based from my FB post tonight about a local BLM protest in my neighborhood. Yarnlady asked the same question on my FB post.

My local protests are about injustices in my city. This is happening in cities across our country. There is purpose for these protests.

@Yarndlady you didn’t take the time to research what my local BLM protests were about. Our community is fighting for local justice. This is also happening in Chicago but the news isn’t reaching you.

josie's avatar

It is the social variant of what George W. Bush once discussed regarding education.
https://www.carolinajournal.com/opinion-article/overcoming-the-soft-bigotry-of-low-expectations-for-black-males/

kritiper's avatar

It’s called Living in the Land of Irony.

YARNLADY's avatar

@zenvelo Thank you that makes a lot of sense
@Jonsblond There are a lot of good answers here. Thank you for you insight.

seawulf575's avatar

I want to know why white people are the only ones that really care about black lives. Time to be honest, folks. Cops don’t kill black people nearly as much as BLM would make it seem. And when they do, it is often, it because the black person is armed or attacking and the cop is defending himself. I give you Michael Brown as the perfect example. Completely out of control, attacks and beats a cop and tries to take his gun. Then he attacks the cop when he dared to get out of his cop. So the cop shot him. THIS is one of the perfect examples since BLM claims this as an example of Cops killing Blacks needlessly. But the grand jury and Obama’s DoJ all concluded it was a justified shooting. Only the liberal press and the radical left cannot admit that. Meanwhile, for every black person death at the hands of a police officer, 71 black lives are lost to other blacks. Where is the outrage? When the outrage is over the killings that are mostly justified, it stops being about the actual life lost and becomes a political statement.

Pandora's avatar

@seawulf575 The problem is that people expect cops to be the good guys. Not some want to be mobster. You wouldn’t go to a hospital for medical help is you heard that there are some good doctors and some quacks and some murders would you? The whole world can’t be controlled but cops are facing hard times right now because of all the times they let their criminal cop pals actually get away with murder. One law for citizens and another for the police. And people call the cops on black people for nothing. They just want them to feel powerless and maybe to get rough up or killed. There are cops taking actual classes to train to pretty much shot first and asked questions later. I know a lot is required from cops. They have become the sweep up for the poor. I saw a video of a small area in Jersey where they got crime numbers lower by changing their attitude and removing bad cops. They fired everyone and had them all reapply. Only to take back those who were worthy of being and officer and retrained them all. They now solve more crimes because the community trust them now. Before no one even wanted to talk to a cop because they feared being harrassed or worse.
I know to be distrustful of stangers but I feel more distrustful of a man carrying a gun who could decide to kill someone I care for or myself because he had a bad day. At least the regular citizen realizes they may face charges. But cops rarely do. Just look at the story in South Carolina where a jogger was killed simply for checking out work being done to an empty house. He was former DA or something and the cops where not going to do anything about it till it got to the media. All those people involved in the cover up should’ve been fired. Bet most of them are still working.

Demosthenes's avatar

@seawulf575 Agreed. There are some egregious examples of police-involved killings out there, like that of George Floyd. But even some of the ones that we’re supposed to be up-in-arms about (Michael Brown, Rayshard Brooks) may have been justified and the narratives around them are complete bullshit (“hands up, don’t shoot” was based on a lie). And I understand the point that unjustified state killings are more “unacceptable” than gang-related shootings in a city like Chicago, but really, they’re both unacceptable. Some of the people killed in these non-police-involved shootings are children, for crying out loud. But even that doesn’t get the same outrage that the police killings get. Neither should be treated as normal. The fact is, it’s easier to burn a police station than it is to march into the violent neighborhoods and call for an end to the madness.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Here’s the difference – police are suppose to be keepers of the peace, gatekeepers of the community, “to serve and protect”, all that good shit. The reality is often much different. Especially for minorities. People are suppose to trust the police, but that trust has been violated time and time and time again. Police invested by the state when the power to detain, lock-up, even kill its citizens and the police have learned that they can abuse that power with impunity.

What you’re seeing now – the riots, the protests – are not simply because of one man being killed by one cop. This has been a powder keg filling for years. The sight of a police officer with his knee upon the neck of a defenseless man for 8 minutes, all casual-like, hands in his pockets almost smirking as the man pleads with the officers that he can’t breathe, was finally the spark that lit the fuse on the powder keg.

The shootings, the crime, the drug trafficking, the gangs in the inner-cities, on the other hand, are a product of systemic issues that our political leaders have failed to address for decades. Where there are little to no options people will turn to crime. It isn’t out of laziness or inherent moral failing, it’s out of desperation. Besides: unlike police, no one expects gangsters to be the “good guys”.

Zaku's avatar

@seawulf575 “I want to know why white people are the only ones that really care about black lives.”
– It doesn’t seem like you do, because posts 2–4 (from @Darth_Algar , @zenvelo, and @hmmmmmm ) above all addressed this.

“Time to be honest, folks.”
– You’re the one not getting the point and posting these terrible, willfully-ignorant denials and attempted side-tracks and deflections (though I expect you’re parroting talking points from racism-apologist media).

e.g.:
“Cops don’t kill black people nearly as much as BLM would make it seem. And when they do, it is often, it because the black person is armed or attacking and the cop is defending himself. I give you Michael Brown as the perfect example. Completely out of control, attacks and beats a cop and tries to take his gun. Then he attacks the cop when he dared to get out of his cop. So the cop shot him. THIS is one of the perfect examples since BLM claims this as an example of Cops killing Blacks needlessly. But the grand jury and Obama’s DoJ all concluded it was a justified shooting. Only the liberal press and the radical left cannot admit that. Meanwhile, for every black person death at the hands of a police officer, 71 black lives are lost to other blacks. Where is the outrage? When the outrage is over the killings that are mostly justified, it stops being about the actual life lost and becomes a political statement.”
– No, you’re missing the point and missing, ignoring and/or dismissing what BLM is about, what people above have replied to you above, and what @Darth_Algar just re-explained.

seawulf575's avatar

@zaku, those posts, 2–4. are all about only cops killing blacks. But the question was why there isn’t outrage when 49 blacks kill 49 other blacks. So those posts are nothing but deflection. They aren’t about black lives, they are trying to justify BLM. Period. Here’s a thought. There are about 260 times in a given year when a cop kills a black person. Most of those are actually justified killings. But let’s stick with the 260 for a moment. Here is a wonderful graphic. 407 murders in Chicago alone so far in 2020. I didn’t figure how many were black, but looking down the list, most are black or hispanic. Let’s say 80%. That’s about 325 blacks and/or hispanics killed in less than 7 months. Where is the news coverage? Where is the outrage? Why is it when you bring up things like this, those that support BLM the most accuse you of deflecting? 325 in just one city in less than 7 months. Another 180 or so in Baltimore….again, mostly blacks and hispanics. So we are at almost double the number killed by police in a whole year, justified or not…in just the first 7 months in 2 cities. See where this is going? And all the BLM adherents can come up with is “Cops Bad”. Yes, when someone is killed like George Floyd, it IS bad. There is no argument there. But that is a minor blip on the screen of black deaths across this country every year. One article I saw said that 75% of the killings in Chicago are black people and 71% of the killers were black. But we aren’t supposed to talk about that?!? THAT is the attitude that brings on my comment about why it seems white people are the ones that really care about it.

JLeslie's avatar

White people kill white people disproportionately. Murder usually is same race.

Cops killing Black people disproportionately is a different thing. I saw a show recently that said that the FBI has been looking into WS infiltrating police forces around America for years. I believe it. The police force is a perfect place for power hungry violent men to drive fast, carry gun, and hurt people and get away with it. I’ve said this forever, it’s completely obvious. Not just racist men, but men period who have serious anger and violence problems. It’s no different than pedophiles hiding out among the clergy, teachers, and coaches in our society.

All these positions people look to be able to trust the people who occupy them, so when someone is evil within these lines of work it is even more upsetting than the average criminal harming others.

I hope we have decent people still working in our FBI, and I hope they are investigating the police forces and these military police using excessive violence, and I hope all these people rioting in the streets who are taking advantage of peaceful protests who are being arrested, I hope they are having their computers confiscated and their online search investigated.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Yes, whites kill whites more than blacks and yes, it tends to stay in race. But you don’t see some radical group called White Lives Matter protesting to address it, do you? No…you don’t.
As for WS infiltrating police force, please give a citation. I’d love to see where this came from. As I have stated before, I keep hearing about these evil White Supremacist groups and all the evil stuff they supposedly do, but I have almost never actually heard one of them named. It is a nebulous title assigned to anyone that doesn’t sing the liberal song as far as I can tell. I mean think about it. You have Antifa causing hate, discontent and violence all over the country. You have the Black Panthers that make their appearances periodically. The strong-arm tactics at voting locations was a jewel that was glossed over. You have BLM that is pushing to get rid of cops. But then you have “White Supremacists”. Who are they? There isn’t even a group identified. It seems like it is just some bizarre title created to make unfounded accusations.
I get that we don’t want cops acting like Chauvin did in Minnesota. I have stated publicly that he needs to go down for murder and those other officers should be looked at as being complicit as well. But let’s be perfectly honest…those are extremely rare occurrences. There are already rules against that sort of thing and we just need to hold them accountable. I have brought up the case of Justine Damond a couple times. In that case it was a black (Somali) cop that shot her. She called 911 about a woman being attacked behind her house. When the cops showed up she went up to the car in her pajamas. The cop just pulled his gun and shot her dead. Yet there was nowhere near the outrage we saw as with George Floyd. And you know when the biggest outrage came? When they wanted to try him for murder. Then the activists, including BLM, came out and raised the roof about how racist that was. A cop just killed a person in cold blood. No difference in my mind from George Floyd’s death, except the way they were killed. In the end, the cop was found guilty of murder as it should be. But I think it was some watered down version and he only got 5 years. But this cop and Chauvin are by far exceptions to the rule. This article shows a good breakdown that supports what I am saying.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Below is what a jelly wrote on another Q about what she is seeing on her facebook regarding WS rioting when the BLM protests started up after George Floyd was murdered.

Not quite but it’s more of a ‘how to’ not get caught. There are a ton of pages and hashtags based on geographical locations, too. I’d call it tacit approval, as pics are posted on the same accounts of people standing on police cars, etc…

I can’t link as it shows my personal profile unfortunately.

One post is showing a picture of a purported WS at a protest saying “Fire this piece of shit into the sun.”

The actual recommendation is to cover any tattoos or distinguishing marks that may get you identified.

Another says ‘Some of ya’ll aren’t ready to go into violent protests and I think you should prepare better. Masks, glasses, gloves, hoodies, sneakers, backpack, washcloth, cellular data OFF.’

Another “Delete all protest photos off social media, your phone, your cloud. Do it now!”

Trump continues to only point out antifa and not the White Supremacists who are rioting. His willful omissions speaks volumes.

Where I live we had that man shout “white power” that Trump saw fit to tweet.

Tucker Carlson’s head writer was just found out to be a racist.

Charlottesville demonstration with torches and guns and chanting racist things.

Too many things piling up, impossible to ignore them now.

If Republicans would come out against this stuff they would have a better chance, but you seem to be defending it. I am not saying that about the jelly who posted about the rioting, I don’t think she was ok with rioting at all, nor do I think she is racist.

You don’t see a group saying White Live Matter because white people have the advantage, they don’t live in fear, they aren’t disproportionately poor, less access to education, etc etc. We could say poor live matter, and that would be accurate too, but why would you need to say White Lives Matter? Are other groups keeping white people down systematically and killing them disproportionately? No. You aren’t a minority you have no idea. I think plenty of white people do have an idea, and they try to understand the experience, but you don’t. Why is it a big deal to just agree Black people should have equality. All people should have equality. It is that simple. Then we can move forward.

Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. Both extremes that currently exist in our country seem to not understand that. Trump allows three years of WS to carry on, and so now we have BLACK LIVES MATTER painted on streets and walls.

Keep wages very low and housing unaffordable and limited access to healthcare and education and you risk the lower classes putting in a system that they hope will benefit them. That will either be higher wages, possibly labor unions, or a more socialist system. If you want to keep capitalism around you need to treat people fairly. You can’t abuse people ongoing. You can only push so far, and then people push back just as far or more.

longgone's avatar

Let one white man kill one black man and the entire country erupts. Do black lives NOT matter when they are killed by blacks?

Whites kill Whites every day, too. The reason we don’t organise protests against mass murderers or terrorist groups is ultimately hope. We expect the police to be a little better than Ted Bundy.

And if skin colour had been reversed in the recent murders, with Black policemen shooting White victims, you can be sure there would be outrage as well.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Did you look at what you wrote? The quotes from the post are particularly telling. “Purported WS”. All the rest seems to be just random things heard that are being attributed to WS, but there is nothing actually tying it to any particular group. Putting on glasses, masks, covering tattoos, hoodies, sneakers, etc…that could just as easily be Antifa since that is pretty much their get up for every event. So really, there is nothing there. Just an accusation. And again…no actual name of a group. In Charlottesville there were a couple groups that actually identified themselves as groups. The National Neo-Nazis and the KKK were among them. All the rest were self-affirmed racists of one type or another, but not really an organized group. So the challenge still remains out there…who are these “WS groups” that the left keeps talking about? They apparently are very organized and participate in just about everything under the sun…except they really aren’t there. Yeah, you get the stray assholes but you get that everywhere. But they certainly aren’t as organized as Antifa and BLM and you really couldn’t actually name any of them. So even claiming that Trump isn’t calling them out is disingenous of you since you can’t name them either to call them out. All you can do is say “White Supremacists are rioting!” But interestingly, you ignore the actual riots and violence and destruction perpetrated by BLM and Antifa. You do see the hypocrisy in this, right?
As for “white power”, you already know my opinion of that. It is just as racist as “black power” or even “black lives matter”. So when you start calling out the racists on both sides, you MAY have a point. After all, that is what I’m doing, right?
And when you say things like “Tucker Carlson’s head writer was just found out to be a racist”, I have to be honest…I really am deaf to that. The accusation of racism has been thrown for everything that doesn’t go along with the liberal narrative. If you aren’t willing to absolutely slather abuse on Donald Trump, you are a racist. If you believe all lives matter, you are a racist. If you disagree with any black person, you are a racist. Sorry, that card is worn out. I really don’t care. And that might be part of the problem. It has been thrown so often for things that have nothing to do with racism, that no one really cares or listens anymore. And that is sad because then when racism DOES rear its head, the initial reaction is “Oh yeah, here we go again!”
As for treating people fairly, I think that depends on your version of fair. I am not disagreeing with you, but I don’t think entry level positions should be making $50k or more per year. They just aren’t that important or specialized. However, I have seen several companies that really started screwing their employees on every front. They do this so the upper echelon can keep getting their multi-million dollar bonuses because they make the stock look good. But what happens, and it happens every time, is that people finally say enough is enough. And they leave. And pretty soon, the company starts really struggling and the big bosses can’t figure out why. And the company founders. I have seen HUGE companies basically go bankrupt or close to because of this behavior. But here’s a thought for you: Most of the CEO’s in this country are Democrats. Now the funniest part is that they will donate to both Dems and Repubs and often donate more to Repubs because the Repub ideals are to allow prosperity without a lot of government restriction. But they are definitely Dems. They enact many ideals that are right in line with the Democrat/Liberal ideals. Personally, I think the Japanese have it figured out. Many of the CEOs of the big Japanese companies don’t make $1M a year. Most CEOs of big companies in the USA make multi-million dollars every year in salary, stock options, and bonuses. The Japanese put the money back into the business. As it should be.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Got it, you don’t want to say that racist groups aren’t doing anything wrong. Just like Trump. I am nothing like you, I have condemned antifa doing extreme acts since it was happening on college campuses in 2017, and still do, but you want to completely deny there are factions in your party who are violent, racist and awful. You only help them. They can continue doing their horrible things and people like you will say they don’t exist or accuse other groups.

Within the two major political parties in our country there are groups within each that people don’t agree with. Democrats know there are subgroups in the party who they don’t agree with, and Republicans know there are subgroups in their party they don’t agree with. It is up to you to say where you don’t align. So far you just support these people who are racist. WS are racists, that is their self defined charter, they usually associate themselves as Republicans, or vote that was at least. That is out of your control, but you can control denouncing them. You can control acknowledging they exist, and if they grow larger and gain more control it is a disaster for our country. Unless, you think it isn’t a disaster. Do you?

Do you think it is a disaster if White Supremacists infiltrate our police forces, politics, and leadership?

Here is a map of WS groups. https://www.splcenter.org/flyering-map
Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_white_nationalist_organizations

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie I’m not saying racist groups aren’t doing anything, but I AM saying that not everything “they” are accused of is real. And I still haven’t heard a name of the group that is “the white supremacists” that do all the horrible evil things.
And you want to claim the Repubs don’t say anything about WS and that Trump urges them on. You are buying into the Charlottesville Lie. Here is a transcript of Trump’s comments about Charlottesville. You know, the one where the liberal media went crazy saying he called the WS and Neo-Nazis “very fine people”? Go ahead…read it for yourself. He denounced those people several times. Not that the liberal media would report that honestly. Maybe it’s time to start questioning the propaganda that we are being bombarded with.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 He is doing it now with BLM protests. Trump name Antifa and anarchists, which is another term used for antifa among Republicans, and won’t mention WS groups. There is reporting that is was indeed WS groups are doing some of the rioting. What he had his “police” force do to hold that bible up in front of the church is bizzaro violent land. That was him.

The military has denounced some of his actions. WTH some Republicans are on board is a mystery to me. Except for undying loyalty to the president.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie We are getting nowhere. I keep asking for the names of these WS groups and all you do is say “WS groups”. Again…I’m having a really hard time accepting pretty much anything out of the media when it is vague. Remember all the “anonymous sources” used by WaPo and NYT that turned out to be fictional characters full of lies? Sort of the same kinda thing. At every protest it’s a “WS group” that is doing all the rioting, but there is never a name on that group. I suspect it is made up to give the loyal libs something to blame other than BLM and Antifa and just random assholes who see the protest as a chance to loot and riot.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf I gave you links. I see people online talking about the “plan” and the Fall of Cabal and the Q religion. This is not media, this is people in facebook groups.

I just heard from someone Fareed Zakaria did a show about it, I need to watch it still. That Flynn swore allegiance to them, and that Trump uses their verbiage. I haven’t seen the episode yet. From what I understand this Q group has about 2 million people.

Whether they really exist or not, if there are White supremacists groups driving some of this do you denounce those groups or not? You won’t, you don’t. It is a fact that there is a KKK and other NeoNazi groups still in existence in America, do you denounce them or not? Do you agree they are racist and harmful to America or not?

seawulf575's avatar

So @JLeslie We are still at an impasse. Yes, you gave me a list of organizations that are purported to be white supremacist. I was particularly amused by the National Socialist Movement since it is the Dems that are pushing socialism so hard. But that is neither here nor there. When WS are supposedly doing all the dastardly deeds, why aren’t they being named? I mean, you just supplied me a whole list of groups. So why aren’t any of them claiming credit or why isn’t anyone asking who they are? Even undercover or grapevine stories would be something. But there is nothing. I did look at the NSM just to see what I could find. They are supposed to be one of the bigger outfits in the US. It looks like they have a whopping 40 dues paying members. I’m not picturing these guys causing all the hate and discontent.
Besides, there have been many reports of Antifa hijacking the peaceful protests. They have been filmed. They have been reported by the protesters. They have been arrested by the hundreds. Yet in your mind it seems to be only “WS groups”. Why is that? I can easily see why the media would change the narrative from Antifa causing the riots to “WS Groups”. When Charlottesville happened, all the WS groups readily identified themselves. They have a whole list of the groups that were there. But according to you, they (WS groups) are responsible for all the riots.
Qanon is interesting. You claim WS Groups are actively taking over protests and turning them into riots. Yet I can’t find really one example of where QAnon did anything active like that. They spread conspiracy theories which is about it. And I cannot find anything about what their membership numbers might be.
I absolutely denounce these idiots. I find them offensive on many levels. But I don’t see them as the huge threat to this country. I don’t see many people being inspired to follow them. Now, that being said, that might change over time. The more that black this and black that are pushed onto everyone, the more you are likely to have people deciding to push back and at that point you might see some increase in their numbers. But right now I just don’t see it.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 In other words you have no problem with White Nationalists, KKK, and other hate groups. You won’t denounce them. Got it.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Ummm…hmmm…did you not see what I just wrote? Here, let me help you. “I absolutely denounce these idiots. I find them offensive on many levels. ” Maybe if you were less interested in making the white man evil, you could work on your reading comprehension.

JLeslie's avatar

I said over and over Antifa and WS. I said I fault you and Trump for not naming WS in addition to Antifa. That he purposely omits blaming WS. I’m glad you denounce those groups. I guess I missed that one line you wrote during this entire thread and all threads I’ve seen you on. I’ve said Antifa violence I condemn a dozen times at least and somehow you have missed it. Maybe your comprehension is worse than mine.

I’m not trying to make the white man evil. What kind of ridiculous thing is that to say? Most of the people who are causing the riots who are supposedly Antifa are white. I see them breaking windows and getting arrested. Maybe you want to make white people evil?

I am white. Unless you don’t consider me to be white? I’m the palest white white can be. Blue eyes. European descent.

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