How does each state govt. know that each citizen who votes only gets one chance? (Bonus question)

They will check all mail in ballots against the voter rolls and check signatures on the ballot against the registered signatures before validating and counting. If people vote in person – at least in my state – that vote will be a provisional ballot until they check if you have voted by mail.

Everybody gets registered and they are obviously put on a list, “voter rolls”
So when dead people are getting ballots, they aren’t updating the rolls. Update the rolls, and that issue should be solved on that.

There is, of course, no national registry of signatures. Such could certainly be developed but not in time for this election. And considering I have gotten City ballots for people no longer at our (my GF and me) apartment and ballots for my sister who hasn’t lived here since 1989, there is rife cause for concern,

The Democrats have always said that voter ID requirements and the requirements for actually voting at a polling place are a means to discriminate against people of color, or disenfranchise voters. I cannot help but wonder just what they are planning and likely to carry out.

@Yellowdog Of course there’s no national registry of signatures. How many times does it need to be explained to you that voting is controlled by the states?

Double votes inside a state may be caught. For instance, if you vote by mail and in person, they may check that. The problem comes when you change districts or states. Let’s say you lived in NYC and then moved to Albany. But in that move you didn’t follow through to tell the state to cancel your NYC votes and move them to Albany. so you get a mail in ballot sent to your NYC address, but the PO forwards it to you in Albany. And since you are now in Albany, you decide to vote in person. Those 2 votes may or may not be caught as being duplicate since they are in different districts.
I know in my state, the counties control the voter rolls. And they may not talk to each other as well as they should.

Names are compared to the list of registered voters and checked off. Most states (maybe all) compare signature on file also.

Here is part of a status update on Facebook from a friend of mine who works the polls in Shelby County, TN, he was working on the absentee ballots:

“Here is my promised update on my Poll Worker experience in Shelby County TN: It was a very long day, starting work 7am, ending at 8pm. (I am told working as a poll worker at the voting sites runs even longer-more like 6am until an hour after the polls close, i.e. an hour after the last person in line at closing has in fact voted.) This does take some stamina. We had over 16,000 absentee ballots to count, over 20% of all the votes cast. (An August vote like this would typically handle only 1,000 absentee ballots.) The process was very thorough and precise, with all ballots carefully reviewed for signature matches and proper execution. My Republican colleague and I handled about 1,000 of those ballots. Fewer than 10 of those were rejected. The approved ballots were then scanned electronically. The process is precise, and methodical, and overall very well run. The November election will be even more demanding, though a state supreme court ruling this week insured that TN is one of the last five states in the nation to deny absentee voting to those whose only reason is their fear about contracting Covid-19…”

One big deterrent is people often go to JAIL if they commit voter fraud. Also, people can commit fraud with in-person voting too. I’ve been registered in two states more than once. I’d never vote twice.

If people are afraid of fraud they should work to make the system more fraud resistant, not work at preventing people from voting.

@janbb How do you expect to win an argument with THAT?

The number one method of voter fraud is voting in more than one state. (Don’t worry, I still respect you).

I can probably still vote in Alabama. I have an old Alabama license for where I lived six years ago Its only two hours twenty minutes from where I currently live in Memphis. I guarantee you, they would trust me at the poling place and wouldn’t even question it. If principal isn’t enough, however, some of us fear the criminal consequences of voter fraud.

My GF has a Mississippi license but receives mail and resides in Tennessee. We could be just as bad but we are the ones warning people about voter fraud not the ones denying it happens and then encouraging it.,.

In my opinion, what is needed is a way to verify if any individual has already voted in the said election, no matter what the state or method of voting— and that the signature is theirs (without the possibility of forgery). As with voice recognition, there are over twenty ‘markers’ of a signature (such as the way loops are made).

@Yellowdog It sounds like we both believe that funding is needed to make sure the electoral process is fair and safe. Let’s pass the House’s bill and protect the Post Office!

@Yellowdog Their name is checked off as voted like always. They can’t vote twice unless they are registered in two places.

Well, I may be.

I don’t trust what’s going on—did not postal workers take time off with pay, violate the Hatch act and help Hillary in 2016 while being paid by a postal union?

Someone is planning to rig an election and Trump is making sure it does’t happen.

@Yellowdog: If the postal workers took time off with pay, and they’re in a union, they probably get paid time off in their contract (labor contract). Most labor contracts allow for paid time off. Many contracts specify that if you don’t take your paid time by the end of the year, you may lose it, or are only allowed to carry over a certain amount.

Also the union doesn’t write paychecks so the postal workers are not ”paid by a postal union.”

(full time union rep here)

@jca2 Actually, the union CAN pay the postal workers. Here’s how it happened in 2016. The union gave a list of employees to be put on unpaid leave so they could work on political activities. The USPS sent down the list and it was given the strength of directives so it was deemed necessary despite what it did to normal operations of the USPS. And the Union paid the workers out of their own political fund during the time they were helping in the political campaigns.

@seawulf575: Oh yes I see it came out of the union’s political fund, 97 employees.

You can also harvest absentee and now mail-in ballots.

Merely collect the ballots of the deceased and no-longer-at-this-address personages, just so that they don’t fall into misuse. Then do with them what you see fit.

@Yellowdog And go to jail. What are these “harvesters“ going to do? Ask everyone in town with a dead person’s ballot to turn them in to the harvester? All these people who have dead people’s ballots are just as dishonest and going to comply? They all are willing to be a party to the crime?

@JLeslie Yeah, but see…that’s the problem with all voter fraud. It doesn’t get prosecuted very often because there is always a battle about looking for it. If all those ballots were harvested and mailed in later all, how do you prove who did it? And if you start digging to find out, there would be a cry about racism and voter suppression and every other idiotic thing under the sun.

@seawulf575 People who get caught either plead guilty or get prosecuted. You can say the same about in-person fraud. Joe Schmo isn’t going to illegally send in his dead mother’s ballot, nor is Joe going to vote in two states just because he is registered in two states. Think about it. Most people are not going to take the risk, and more people don’t care to do what they know is wrong even if they think the risk of getting caught is minimal. They just don’t even think to do it. Are you going to do it? Commit voter fraud? Harvest votes? Are you even tempted? Block people from voting? Do want to have fewer voting facilities in low income areas? Make it more difficult for minorities to vote? Most people want a fair vote in America, I’m guessing you do too. Why are you assuming Democrats are less scrupulous than Republicans?

I am not completely sure what you mean by harvesting? Does harvesting always mean an illegal vote? Or, can it mean helping people to vote who have a right to vote anyway? Like helping them order a ballot and picking up their ballots for them to turn in. Is that harvesting?

@JLeslie You really aren’t that naive, are you? Dead people have been voting in this country for almost as long as there have been elections. Yes, you won’t try voter fraud and I won’t. But there are many that would. And in this election, as polarized as things are, there are people that would not normally try voter fraud that would suddenly consider it. And I don’t say Dems are more unscrupulous that Repubs, I believe they would both try it. There are instances already over the past 20 years where both parties have tried it.
Consider this, though. There is a difference between absentee ballots and mail-in ballots. The difference is that you have to request an absentee ballot. That puts uncertainty into the question of who will be getting them. Now, think about what the Democrats are suggesting: sending out a ballot to everyone with an address. That puts a couple hundred million ballots out there, all in mailboxes. There are so many weaknesses in that plan that could be exploited for fraud, it isn’t funny. Suppose a mail person just grabs up a bunch? Suppose a someone decides to just drive around and pull them out of mailboxes? Harvesters are those people that go around and pick up ballots to submit them to the polling station for people. Suppose they don’t submit the ones that aren’t for “their” candidate? Suppose the harvesters decide to “help” people fill out their ballots? it’s no longer necessarily only the voters’ vote. You have influence during the voting process.
But as I say…the problem with voter fraud is that there is a lot of push back against looking for it or trying to prevent potential problems with it.

And the problem with voter suppression is that it’s so blatant – like closing down polling places and eviscerating the post office.

@seawulf575 I think most states you have to request your mail-in ballot. “The Democrats” are not fighting for every address to receive a ballot. There might be a few voices here and there, I know for years some Americans feel everyone of voting age should have to vote like in some countries (I’ve never thought that) but of all the Democrats I know, none are complaining about having to request a ballot.

Florida there is ZERO difference if you are absentee or mail-in, all mail-in ballots are mail-in ballots. You request your ballot for whichever election you want it for with a limit of two years and then your mail-in status expires and you have to request again.

I looked up the MD mail-in website info for my parents to do mail-in and in MD they also have to request their ballot. I think most states function that way.

If you don’t like a ballot automatically being mailed out then argue against that, but don’t argue against people being able to mail-in in general. What states do this automatic mail out you don’t like? Especially, I think it ludicrous to say absentee is different than mail-in, because most states there is no difference if any state. If your state has mail-in, all mail-in are mail-in. The reddest of states only had absentee, meaning you needed a reason, but even some of them have changed in the last few months, because even Republicans responsible for the rights of the citizens of their states I guess the officials realized Americans should be able to vote safely and easily. Some states are still holding out like TN, I think TX too.

Consider this, the people most likely to have valid health concerns for absentee voting are Blacks and the poor. Most of them are Democrats.

Almost all of your concerns are not valid because the majority of the states take care of the concerns you have.

I’m concerned my state has our party affiliation on the outside of the envelope, I’d like that to be changed.

I see no problem with someone collecting ballots to turn in as long as it is a trusted person. They even say it on my TV in my state, “if you have a concern about the movement of your mail and cannot get to a voting location it is ok to let someone you trust drop it off for you when they drop off their own or when they go to vote.”

Edit: I found this article that lists what states require a ballot be requested and what states require an excuse. Most states require a request and no reason necessary. https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/how-to-vote-by-mail-in-all-50-states-in-the-2020-election

@JLeslie In CA they are just mailing out ballots to all registered voters. But they aren’t actually looking to see if they are still residents of CA or are, in fact, even still alive. They are just sending out ballots. Probably to the last address those people were at in CA. If you look it up on the link you gave, the states that just mail out ballots (the most likely way for voter fraud), you get 119 electoral votes. That puts you about half way there. You do see the problem here, right? It’s supposed to be each person’s responsibility to vote. Not each person thinks they are voting and the votes may or may not reflective of what the actual people wanted.
But here’s the question I always come back to and the one no one ever really wants to address. We are a country of very diverse people. We are expected to take other people’s feelings and concerns for consideration to be fair to all. So why is it when someone brings up potential concerns for voter fraud, do we do nothing except to try justifying why it should be okay? If there is no voter fraud, then voter IDs shouldn’t be a big deal, right? If there is no voter fraud, then changing from mailing out a bunch of ballots shouldn’t be a big deal, right?

@seawulf575 I assume CA checks signatures and marks a person as voted just like they do when they vote in person. Plus, CA is BLUE for the president anyway, why worry about that state?

UT is Red, are you going to complain about that state?

Face it, your primary worry is you are afraid Democrats win with mail-in. Plenty of states and localities elect Republicans with significant mail-in voting.

I think let’s focus on fixing the glitches in voters registration. That can be a problem in person or mail-in. Do you agree with that? There should be a national registry so when someone registers in a new state they are deleted from the former state. If they move within a state it should be auto-updated when you update your license. Lots of things can be improved.

My sister wants me to get her a mail-in balLot and I’ve persuaded her to vote republican.

@Yellowdog What’s the point? The majority of Utah mails in and votes Republican. Large amount of Florida mails in and votes Republican. Majority of our military mails in and votes Republican.

The Republicans try to separate absentee from mail-in, because they know military votes more for Republicans, it’s very purposeful their rhetoric.

Florida Republican congressman made statements wanting Trump to stop speaking out against mail-in and suddenly the Republicans decided Florida is ok to vote mail-in but not other states. Yeah, because MANY, maybe the majority, of Florida minorities and older our population vote Republican.

It’s all very purposeful to stop Democrats from voting. Maybe in your heart you are not trying to do that, but the messaging in the media, social media, and many Republican politicians have that as their goal, and they are manipulating people.

I was verifying YOUR point to @seawulf575 that Republicans can vote with mail-in ballots.

But just because the Democrats and their complic;nt media say that the Republicans are doing bad things, doesn’t mean its true.

@Yellowdog Sorry if I misunderstood your point. I guess I got so caught up in defending my points I misinterpreted your statement.

As far as Republicans doing bad things, like I said I think many Republicans simply are persuaded by the messaging out there that mail-in has a lot of fraud, and they are not trying to harm voters (although I do think people initiating the messaging in high places do have the goal of blocking Democrats) my issue is why not try to fraud proof the system rather than prevent people from mail-in voting. If Florida has a good system, that is what Trump says, then how many states do it like Florida already and how can we get other states up and running? Like I said I take issue with the party affiliation on my ballot, so I actually would want that changed. The rest is computerized, so how hard could it be to let other states use the same software system?

In most states I have lived in a sample ballot is mailed out before the election, I am pretty sure I did not get one this time, maybe because I signed up to mail-in vote, so it actually was not even much more paper, nor much more work for elections staff, because I received an actual ballot rather than a sample ballot.

Trump says both things. He says mail-in voting is fine and cites examples where republicans win, and then he says mail-in is terrible. This is typical Trump, talking out of both sides of his mouth. Maybe Democratic bias media should take the clips of Trump saying it’s fine and repeat that clip over and over again. What would Republicans do with that? How would they react? Would the discussion just disappear? Or, would Q and bots on social media keep it all all alive?

We don’t always agree and sometimes hold opposite views, but I’ve always considered you the voice of reason on Fluther. Even when we disagree, I gain insight into the reasonableness of the other view.

Thank you all for the insights. There must be an easier way to control the voting process nationally vs. state-by-state. Are social security #s used?