General Question

crazyguy's avatar

Why is CNN so anti-Trump?

Asked by crazyguy (3207points) September 11th, 2020

Even stories about “normal stuff” seem to read as criticisms. For instance read

The story acknowledges the fact that the behavior highlighted occurs in every election. Yet it takes pains to single out Republican efforts for the 2020 election. So my question is: why does CNN go to such great lengths to vilify Trump? Surely if he is so bad, he will lose. Is CNN secretly worried that he may win?

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81 Answers

chyna's avatar

Why is Fox so pro trump?

rockfan's avatar

Even though CNN is anti-Trump, they are mostly offended by his indecency and rudeness, they hardly ever criticize him for being corrupt when it comes to healthcare and foreign policy – the establishment and big pharma wouldn’t like the anchors bringing that up.

gorillapaws's avatar

CNN has an extreme pro-estabishment bias. Trump projects the appearance of countering the establishment (though he goes right along with them). Fanning the flames is great sensationalism for their predominantly senior audience (median age is 60) that don’t know any better. When it comes to evaluating CNN’s stories, I always ask myself, how does this impact AT&T (the owners of CNN)? and understand that the story will be presented (or not presented at all) in a way that (at a minimum) doesn’t hurt AT&T, but more likely helps AT&T, and secondarily their advertisers.

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gondwanalon's avatar

Trump doesn’t fit CNN’s liberal agenda. CNN and the far left liberals are terrified that Trump might win in November. I doubt that Trump will win.

I’m a Trump supporter but I’m afraid that if he is re-elected then all the major cities will be burned to the ground. I’d rather see peace and Biden/Harris elected President. But then maintain Republican control of the Senate (and perhaps re take control of the House) so as to slow and stop the Biden/Harris radical agenda.

gorillapaws's avatar

@gondwanalon “Biden/Harris radical agenda.”

I’m just wondering how you reconcile people like myself who have nothing but contempt for Trump, but refuse to vote for Biden/Harris because of how right-wing and anti-progressive they are?

Also understand that I would never vote for someone that was on the extreme left and was advocating communism. I’m moderate between Socialism and Capitalism, like most of the developed, first-world economies.

rockfan's avatar

Biden wrote the crime bill, doesn’t support universal healthcare, is a corporatist and also a war hawk. He’s basically a moderate republican. Calling him a far left radical is utterly ridiculous

Demosthenes's avatar

Who cares? Every news outlet is biased. It’s obvious that CNN is left-biased and doesn’t want Trump to win. That’s not surprising or difficult to understand. Trump has a high chance of winning simply because he’s the incumbent and we haven’t had a one-termer since I was a baby.

kritiper's avatar

@gorillapaws “Communism?” Do you realize that there are at least 20 different types of Socialism, only one of which is Communism???

crazyguy's avatar

As I am writing this comment, I am gratified to see that there have been ten responses to my question. I have also been advised to lump my comments into one post, So here goes.

rockfan: I know Trump has been criticized by CNN for his foreign policy (meetings with North Korea and Russia, phone call with Ukraine, etc.). On healthcare they have not called him corrupt, perhaps because that strikes too close to home.

chyna: Fox is openly pro-Trump. However, sometimes, Tucker will criticize Trump for inaction. I think they decided a long time ago to be more conservative than other news media. To me, the biggest difference is that CNN pretends to be “Facts First”!

stanleybmanly's avatar

The premise is incorrect. Trumpets and the slow witted declare opposition to Trump exclusively a leftist proposition. This is equivalent to labeling those adverse to raw sewage raging environmentalists. The negatives around Trump are so excessive that no objective reporting on the idiot can disguise the man for the hopeless pile of sludge he most assuredly is. Fox may be in the business of gold plating the turd, and its success in the endeavor is stark commentary on the hopeless incredulity of a disappointing percentage of slow witted Americans. The insistence that the media is biased and the proof supposedly in all the negative reporting on Trump ignores the undisputed fact that there has NEVER been an individual in the history of government as adept at generating negative press. The man is an open disgrace to his office with the character and integrity of a septic tank. He is a man totally devoid of both intellect and honor, distinguished for the temperament of a third grader with a disgusting potty mouth and infallible talent when it comes to the persistent embarrassment of his country. He is an open insult to basic decency and you don’t need a news network to see it. Blaming CNN for the fool’s defects is as dishonest as the jackass himself. The news is negative because THAT’S ALL THERE IS.

Blackberry's avatar

Why are the women he assaulted so anti-trump? Why are the workers he didn’t pay to build his properties so anti-trump?

hmmmmmm's avatar

@gondwanalon – I love how you assert that multinational corporations are “far left”. These are the very entities that drive US empire, rally public support for invading countries on behalf of global capitalism, tirelessly frame all public discourse against the left, and mold the opinions of cable-watching age citizens into voting significantly more right-wing than those who don’t.

These corporations define the limits of discourse, and work to create and maintain the overton window. They in no way can be described as “left” in any way possible. Unless you define the capitalist project as one that has the goal of self-destruction, going against everything you actually know and understand about institutions and corporate power.

You can describe certain networks as leaning Dem or Rep. But these are both right-wing corporate parties, so there is no need to get creative and decide that corporate America is anti-capitalist. That’s just bizarre. Dem and Rep media are all dogshit, and are involved in the theater of politics. Critique is all superficial, because they can’t criticize true policy because they all pretty much agree. It’s like two baseball teams where players go and have drinks after. They try to beat each other, but they are still all very much invested in the game. The NY Yankees are not going to make any changes, like remove second base, because they agree with everyone else that it should be there.

Anyway, when you understand what a corporation’s purpose is (profit), then it’s very easy to understand what a tv networks’ (corporations) purpose is.And since these are large corporations that are owned by other very large corporations, the idea that you could have a corporation “free of bias” becomes silly. It’s also not possible or desirable to shoot for that goal.

Zaku's avatar

Why is anyone not anti-Trump?

hmmmmmm's avatar

It’s also important to point out that one way to really secure a right-wing framing and shrink the overton window is to portray right-wing entities as “far left”. There are people who might start to absorb this and feel that there is nothing left of free-market capitalism and mushy “both sides” centrism.
This is how the the “liberal media” myth was born, and it isn’t limited to just labeling media with this method. Objectively right or center-right corporate candidates are painted as radical Marxists. This serves as an attack on the opposition, while simultaneously framing discussion as one in which the farthest left someone can go is to be objectively right-wing.

Also, as to the original question about a corporation being “anti-Trump” – You should also conceive of the a scenario in which the overwhelming news about an administration can be described as negative, purely because the overwhelming actions by an administration are harmful.

rockfan's avatar

CNN criticizing Trump for making peace talks with North Korea is actually criticizing Trump using a right wing talking point.

You’ll never see a well established anchor on CNN criticizing the military industrial complex.

gondwanalon's avatar

@gorillapaws The way I look at this is that the two choices are: a vote for a strong capitalistic economy or a vote for a much more socialist economy. How people hate Trump have no effect on me. That hate is their problem not mine.

@hmmmmmm Don’t put words in my mouth.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@gondwanalon: “Don’t put words in my mouth.”

@gondwanalon: “Trump doesn’t fit CNN’s liberal agenda. CNN and the far left liberals are terrified that Trump might win in November.”

Jeruba's avatar

Why is anyone not anti-Trump? That’s the part that baffles me.

For a long while, a combination of fear and ignorance seemed to explain it, but not any more. Unless people literally fear Trump more than they fear death and destruction.

@crazyguy, > Surely if he is so bad, he will lose.

Because in the history of the world, people just don’t elect bad leaders?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

So rational people with a average IQ or above are by your definition anti-Trump.

The converse is true then that pro-Trumpers are irrational and below normal IQ !

Jeruba's avatar

@Tropical_Willie, who is “your”?

crazyguy's avatar

Continuing my comments:

elbandi… I think gorillapaws had the best response to your idiotic comment. Anybody, is there a way on fluther to create and update an “IGNORE” list?

gondwa… Like you, I am a Trump supporter. Unlike you I am not afraid of the Left’s moronic reactions after they lose. By then, hopefully the Democratic mayors and their sympathetic governors will have seen the light.

gorilla: I am tempted to withdraw the compliment I gave you above. If you think Biden/Harris are right-wing, you live in a different universe.

rockfan: All the things you said about Biden were true at one time or the other. However, I do no think they define his current position.

Demos… So you think Trump enjoys an incumbency advantage? In my opinion, if he wins, it will be in spite of incumbency.

stanley: my good buddy. Boy, you write well. However, I resent being called slow-witted just because I can look beyond the obvious. You say: “The man is an open disgrace to his office…” Let us see what he has been able to accomplish in spite of the rest of the government: Peace between Israel and two of its Arab neighbors, peace between Serbia and Kosovo, pi$$ing off China to the point that the Chinese are openly clamoring for his defeat, ditto for Iran, keeping the economic recovery going (at least until the China virus hit), dealing with other countries from a position of strength (thanks to an unpopular military build-up), bringing NATO and Mexico to heel, addressing the illegal immigration crisis. All this accomplished without any groveling – a la Obama!

Demosthenes's avatar

@crazyguy I think he enjoys some incumbency advantage. But I also think incumbents benefit from a good economy, which the pandemic has upended. It so happens that the last couple of recessions happened at the end of a president’s second term, so incumbency was not a factor. But I do think the economy was a factor in the change of parties. So we will see what happens.

crazyguy's avatar

Part 3 of my response:

Blackberry (I love blackberries): He won fair and square in spite of his baggage. Just like Clinton. The difference is how he acquitted himself at the White House, again compare that to Clinton!

crazyguy's avatar

My trigger finger got me again!

Part 4:

gonda…So you think Google, Apple, Facebook and Twitter are all right-wing? You make “profit” seem like a dirty word. I would hope every businessman’s ultimate purpose should be profit, whether s/he is a corporation or not. And since you think that is bad, I guess you do not run a business. Even a not-for-profit charity tries to control its expenses so they don’t exceed revenues. Some years they may actually have a “profit” which, of course, they are obliged to call “excess of revenues over outlays”. Geez!

Zaku: As is typical of most Trump-haters, you mix the man and his position. The question, in my mind, is NOT that Trump is a likeable, back-thumping sort of guy like Biden may be; the question is “Has he been an effective President?”

hmmm.. I am not sure how you define “right-wing entities”. For instance, would you call Harris a right-wing entity? And, if so, where would you place Senator Ted Cruz?

rockfan: your latest comment confuses me. I do not understand whether you are critical of CNN or not.

gond… I agree 100%. Whatever Biden believes is irrelevant. His decisions and actions will be dictated by his extremist handlers.

Jeruba: Just like my wife, you are only looking at Trump the man. Would I have a beer with him? Perhaps if I am desperate for company and there is nobody else around. However, he has been the most effective President the US has ever had.

Tropical… Where have you been, good buddy? Did you just insult my intelligence?

stanleybmanly's avatar

@crazyguy That’s another infuriating habit of the right. The attempt to contrast Trump with Obama. The proposition that character and intellect in a President don’t matter. That alone is powerful evidence of the paucity of intelligence of anyone looking at Trump and drawing a positive conclusion. Trump isn’t fit to shine Obama’s shoes, and is a man so slimy no one with any sense would trust him alone in a room with their kids. Yet the scumbag’s portrait hangs in the nation’s classrooms and courthouses for all to see as they swear to tell the truth. It’s maddening, and I just get more pissed when any sensible person rises to defend this unmitigated turd of a man.

crazyguy's avatar

stanley: there you go again; I guess your hatred runs so deep that you cannot look at the effectiveness. In my humble opinion, Obama, who is undoubtedly a brilliant man, under-achieved in the White House. And Trump, for all his faults, has achieved so much.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@crazyguy: “I am not sure how you define “right-wing entities”.”

You don’t have to guess. I just explained that we’re talking about corporations.

And yes, the reason the left fought so hard against Harris was because she is part of the corporate Democrats (the right) that fought so hard to stop the tiniest shift left. Biden and Harris are objectively right-wing, in that they are free-market capitalists who are only there (especially in the case of Biden, whose corpse was wheeled out by corporate Dems to stop the left. From healthcare to the environment to every single thing in Biden’s and Harris’ awful history. These are really bad people who have done atrocious things.

Where would I place Senator Ted Cruz? Slightly to the right and up in a 2-axis assessment. He’d be in that blue quadrant along with the rest of them.
Don’t confuse so-called “social issues”, which are really a measure of someone’s authoritarian/libertarian positions. Cruz is very authoritarian and right-wing economically.

Anyway, I understand that it’s difficult if you grow up in a closed environment to feel overwhelmed by all of this. But it’s important to realize that there is actually a left in the US. It’s small, and it generally takes a beating from Democrats, but it exists. The Democrats and Republicans agree on most things, and so much drama/theater is made out of the rest in order to give the illusion of choice. Much of the opposition to Trump from the #Resistance is not with his policies, which they have supported for decades. Rather, it’s with the crass way he enacts them and talks. He breaks convention, and it has broken the minds of liberals.

Trump is certainly a white nationalist giant piece of shit. But he isn’t opposed by a drastically different ideology. The Dems gave us Trump, and they’ve shown that they are completely willing to do so again. The Dems are your friends, and you don’t even know it. These are the people that are protecting you and your family from the horror of actually having healthcare or pretending that the US is not a crap nation.

As for supporting Trump, there are only 2 ways that someone can reasonably support him or the Republican party:

1. You are rich. I mean really rich.
2. You are white and extremely racist, homo/transphobic, xenophobic and have swallowed the ultranationalism and fascist shit that MAGA offers.

There are liberals here who feel that this is unfair – that there is always gray area to be explored or some nonsense. If this is the case, can you elaborate on this gray area that I’m missing? Thanks.

crazyguy's avatar

hmmm.. Thanks for a good response. That is what I am here for; well-reasoned, sincere discussions!

I am a Trump supporter but I do not fit either of the two categories you list. What does that make me? An oddball?

You have a very interesting perspective. If I were a guessing man, I would say you believe in anarchy, but not the strong-arm tactics of Antifa. You are neither a Republican nor a Democrat; you cannot vote for Trump and cannot bring yourself to vote for Biden. How did I do?

You say: “Trump is certainly a white nationalist giant piece of shit.” I may agree with you as far as his personal characteristics go; but I do not think those characteristics are important for the job we (by the way I did not vote for him in 2016) selected him for. In my opinion he has been the most effective President the US has ever had. And my yardstick does not include popularity. In fact popularity and effectiveness are polar opposites. In order to be effective, you almost have to be a bit of an a*hole.

stanleybmanly's avatar

If you believe Trump our most effective President, there is serious doubt as to either your judgement or knowledge of the history of this country. That is unless the effect you are talking about is the reduction of the world’s greatest nation to the spectacle of a clown show or tasteless practical joke.

crazyguy's avatar

Stan, I would be happy to take a test of my knowledge of American history. I was not born in the US but have an unbelievable passion for finding out stuff. So be careful!

Demosthenes's avatar

I think Trump has been effective in getting more people to care about politics and voting. Maybe we will see fewer apathetic non-voters.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And here we go again with the hatred nonsense, as though it is somehow hatred to declare that a turd stinks. Here’s some “stuff” for you to find out before you rank Trump in front of Lincoln, both Roosevelts, Washington, Kennedy, Johnson, hell, even Nixon: by any measure you choose, Trump will go down in history as without question the low water mark when it comes to Presidents.

chyna's avatar

@crazyguy Nodding, yes, an oddball. :-)

hmmmmmm's avatar

@crazyguy: “If I were a guessing man, I would say you believe in anarchy, but not the strong-arm tactics of Antifa. You are neither a Republican nor a Democrat; you cannot vote for Trump and cannot bring yourself to vote for Biden. How did I do?”

Pretty good. But I don’t think us antifascists can be too “strong-armed”. Not even sure what that could mean. And while anarchist might fit in the traditional sense (libertarian socialist), I really just prefer anti-capitalist (although I’ll certainly use socialist or leftist).

@crazyguy: “You say: “Trump is certainly a white nationalist giant piece of shit.” I may agree with you as far as his personal characteristics go; but I do not think those characteristics are important for the job we (by the way I did not vote for him in 2016) selected him for. ”

Could you elaborate here? You agree with my assessment?

Jeruba's avatar

If “effective” means “consequential,” then that’s probably a fair label for Trump, in the same way that Emperor Nero was consequential, the Black Death was consequential, the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand was consequential. I wouldn’t call it a good thing.

seawulf575's avatar

CNN works for the Democratic Party. No, they aren’t officially on the payroll (at least I don’t think they are!), but they are the propagandists for the Dems. They have, for many years now, biased their reporting so as to favor the Dems 100% of the time. They ask softball, prescripted questions to high level Democrats and try asking gotcha questions to those that anyone that opposes the Dems. They create stories or run crazy with innuendo and allegations presented as facts when they want to make someone look bad. Just ask Nick Sandmann. So they will do anything they can to support the Democratic party. And Donald Trump won the election over the Democratic shoo-in candidate, Hillary Clinton. So CNN has to make sure that Donald Trump is viewed as being stupid, evil, corrupt, racist, xenophobic, and anything else so they can try making America see that they were duped into going against the Dems. And apparently, looking at some of these answers, they are somewhat successful.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Give. One. Iota. of. Proof. @seawulf575

Jeruba's avatar

@seawulf575, I don’t know if you’re looking at my answers as proof of anything, but I don’t watch CNN. I don’t watch TV at all, haven’t for more than 20 years.

I do see some TV programming on YouTube when I go looking for something specific. Never heard of Anderson Cooper before he hosted one of the 2016 debates.

I, for instance, would not assume you’re a Fox News viewer, even though everything you said about CNN would be true for Fox with respect to Trump. Blanket assumptions are apt to have holes in them, don’t you agree?

Dutchess_III's avatar

They’re just reporting the things he does and says.
BTW, they didn’t say the behaviors happen in every election. Just the opposite. In the 2nd paragraph it said it’s far more extensive than anything ever seen in any other election.

Zaku's avatar

@crazyguy “Zaku: As is typical of most Trump-haters, you mix the man and his position. The question, in my mind, is NOT that Trump is a likeable, back-thumping sort of guy like Biden may be; the question is “Has he been an effective President?””
* I’m actually pretty clear on the distinction between the man and his position. If I liked what he’s done in office, I would still think he was an awful human, but I would not be against him being president. What I mainly dislike and disapprove about him as president, are the things he has done as president.

* Pretty much the only things I’ve seen Trump be effective at, are all things I am extremely against. That is, I see he has been effective at such things as:
* Destroying as many environmental protections as possible.
* Creating as many handouts as possible for mega-corporations, the ultra-rich, himself and his family.
* Appointing mega-corporate saboteurs to head as many government agencies as possible.
* Adding right-wing people to the Supreme Court.
* Working towards the destruction of the US Postal Service and Social Security.
* Sabotaging effective responses to the COVID pandemic.
* Promoting xenophobia.
* Greatly expanding the records on what a POTUS has exploited in terms of enriching and promoting his own businesses via the Presidency, appointing his own unqualified family members to government positions, getting away with illegal activities, etc.
* Causing endless distractions.
* Inciting division and idiocy.

I despise all of those things, so he only seems “effective” to me in a grimly dark ironic sense.

rockfan's avatar

Biden is still most definitely a corporate democrat, and also doesn’t support universal healthcare.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@rockfan so. . . . is Biden trashing the air you breath, the water you drink and make sure the oil pipelines across the National Parks ? ? ?

Making people pay double Social Security after January 1st 2021 because he zeroed it out for his election !!

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seawulf575's avatar

@Jeruba I wasn’t directing my comment at any one person. There are LOTS of answers on this page and many have to do with how great CNN is. Since the question was about CNN, I gave my view of CNN, their efforts against President Trump, and their impact on society. You seemed to take it personally. It was not meant so. I, personally, don’t watch much cable news. I don’t watch Fox, I don’t watch CNN. I have, periodically tuned in both and I tend to tune out again when all I see is opinion passed as facts. There are periodic nuggets that bear closer inspection and I might use those as a starting point to get to the actual facts so I can make up my own mind about things.

jca2's avatar

crazyguy: When you tag someone, if you type ”” before their name, the list of names will pop up and so the tag will be red instead of black.

chyna's avatar

@jca2 I thought it was the @ symbol. Does what you typed in work, also?

jca2's avatar

Sorry, @chyna, I meant to type @. I thought I did. You know I know this by now!

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Dutchess_III's avatar

This. I was actually disappointed with where CNN landed on this list. I don’t use them much any more.

Jeruba's avatar

@seawulf575, no, I didn’t think you were singling anyone out, and I did not take it personally; but I did think you might be lumping together all those who disagreed with you as “CNN viewers” and then then arguing circularly that viewing CNN accounted for their attitudes. If you weren’t, great; but it’s not as if no one around here thought like that.

So I was just saying don’t count me as furnishing one of your (aggregated) bits of evidence. And if you made an assumption that included me, it wasn’t correct.

I should also amend my own blanket statement to say that I do watch actual current broadcast television when there’s (a) a presidential debate, (b) a presidential inaguration, (c)  certain Olympics events, and (d) a disaster such as 9/11.

Brian1946's avatar

@jca2 Actually, you not only typed @, but you typed it twice: preceding crazy guy, and after the first quotation mark at the end of your instruction. I.e., @ crazy guy…type ” @ ”.

Because you wrote the first @ right next to the c in crazy guy, and the second one right next to the first ”, the Fluther script changed all of the text between the ampersands from this font, to this font.

Hopefully, my explanation won’t confuse anyone! ;-p

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m so confused.

crazyguy's avatar

@Dutchess_III Thanks Duchess. I had not seen that chart before. I am actually very surprised where CNN places on the chart. I think they belong left of MSNBC, and at least as far to the left of neutral as FOX is to the right.

gorillapaws's avatar

@crazyguy If CNN is so far left, why did they trash Bernie (who is center-left), and why do they refuse to cover Howie Hawkins who is actually on the left?

seawulf575's avatar

@crazyguy Don’t put too much faith in that chart. It was made up and is really the opinion of someone. If you look on that same page @Dutchess_III cited, you will see another chart made up by someone else. To say one is more reliable than the other is bogus. Both are skewed heavily…one to the left, one to the right.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The extraordinary thing about this endless wrangling over media bias against Trump is that the way right is forced to take the position that it’s all a ploy to delegitimize Trump’s election. I will commend the @crazyguy for at least considering the idea that the fault finding might have something to do with Trump’s qualifications as a reasonably decent functioning human being. There comes a point when the sheer preponderance of evidence on the matter outweighs any chance that the shit storm of negative press can be attributed to anything as patently simplistic as mass media bias. Trump consistently kicks the shit out of that excuse as a matter of daily routine. Moreover, his inability to shut his own mouth has built a colossal compendium of misconceptions, deceits, inaccuracies and frauds both deliberate or shockingly the result of sheer ignorance. These things have nothing to do with biased or slanted reporting. They are just the plain unavoidable facts. The bias is in the glaring defects of the product, not the hourly reporting on the slew of that product’s horrendous malfunctions.

crazyguy's avatar

Gorilla: You bring up some interesting questions (I did not fact check your basic statements).

Perhaps I have misunderstood CNN’s bias. Perhaps they are not as far left of center as I thought – maybe they are just pro-DNC, That would explain both their trashing of Bernie and lack of coverage of Howie.

Seawulf: Thanks for that perspective (I do not believe anything on the Internet anyways).

cheeb: Is there a channel called CNN News? Since there is not I guess Allsides evaluates the stories that CNN airs. However, I wonder if they look at what stories are not covered at all by CNN.

Stan: “Evidence” in the court of public opinion is very different from evidence in a court of law. That being the case, I wonder what “preponderance of evidence” refers to. Since CNN invariably casts Trump’s words a certain way, are you surprised that people who form their opinions ENTIRELY based on CNN may feel the evidence is overwhelming? I’ll give you just one example. Trump made a comparison of a professional policeman “choking” to a professional golfer” missing a critical putt. What was compared was the response to intense pressure not killing of a man to a sport. Yet if you watch just CNN, you may come away with a grossly incorrect impression.

chyna's avatar

@crazyguy Sorry, a bit off topic, but do you wear a mask when out in public?

hmmmmmm's avatar

@crazyguy: “Perhaps I have misunderstood CNN’s bias. Perhaps they are not as far left of center as I thought – maybe they are just pro-DNC, That would explain both their trashing of Bernie and lack of coverage of Howie.”

^ This! Like I have said, CNN is a corporation, and corporations are by definition anti-left. Institutions do not generally act in ways that would hurt profit. As someone left-of-center, it’s impossible to watch corporate news. It’s as though I’m stepping into an alternate universe where absolutely nothing matters, and it’s all entertainment. No real issues are discussed, and when they are, they’re all framed or reframed in the context of the right.

So, you get MSNBC and CNN on the front lines of fighting against the left. But they certainly don’t hold back when criticizing Trump and Republicans on issues that don’t challenge Democratic actions or ideals. They are the mirror image of Fox News. It’s a theatrical dance that serves to confuse and box-in a population (primarily an older population) into believing there are two opposing parties, and that they are fighting tooth-and-nail. It has very little to do with the (admittedly vague) concept of “news”. The more people watch cable news, the less they know.

crazyguy's avatar

chyna: Yes. Both my wife and I are elederly and do not take any chances.

hmmm: Interesting concept that CNN and MSNBC are fighting against the left. I would have never guessed that. Even after I read your post, I am scratching my head. I understand they may be pro-DNC, but anti-Left? Not in my book.

They have embraced many of Bernie’s and AOC’s issues which in my mind are as left as any ideas in the US. They give Pelosi a pass but are ruthless on Trump, Pence and the entire Republican Party. What do you consider “real issues” to be?

hmmmmmm's avatar

@crazyguy: “Interesting concept that CNN and MSNBC are fighting against the left. I would have never guessed that.”

There are times when Fox News gives voice to the left more than CNN and MSNBC, although not for altruistic reasons.

@crazyguy: “I understand they may be pro-DNC, but anti-Left? Not in my book.”

The DNC is anti-left. The Dem and Rep parties are corporate parties.

@crazyguy: “They have embraced many of Bernie’s and AOC’s issues which in my mind are as left as any ideas in the US.”

They waged an all-out war on Sanders in 2016 and this time around. It was far greater an effort than anything they have done to speak “against” Trump. That’s because they generally have no issue with Trump as president. The DNC would much prefer to lose to Trump than to lose control of their party – even if it’s just to move their right-wing party just slightly to the left.

Bernie and AOC are bland center-left Social Democrats that were painted as radicals or out-of-step with mainstream opinion, even though they reflect popular opinion. Matthews can go on about how Bernie winning a primary looks like Nazi Germany. Joy Reid can bring on “body language experts” to analyze Bernie’s posture to prove sexism. And they can show everyone’s speeches except Bernie’s, choosing to show empty podiums.

There is not way to really talk about this broad subject without focusing on something specific. But when it comes to war, CNN and MSNBC have done their job to beat the war drums and paint opposition as fringe. The framing of every possible “issue” is from the right, and they declare what the limits of opinion can be. And in this way, they present themselves as an alternative to the right. The alternative.

But please, I beg you to consider what I keep saying about corporations. CNN is a corporation. MSNBC is a corporation. If leftists are anti-capitalist, view things through the lens of class and ownership, and if these views are a threat to CNN and MSNBC, how exactly would a corporate entity go about trying to undermine its own interest? Is that how capitalism works? Do advertisers generally want to pay for slots on networks that have an audience that is actively working against the advertisers?

Also – they haven’t “embraced” any of these policies from Bernie. They have coopted them and turned the language of Bernie into something that resembles the opposition’s plan.

crazyguy's avatar

hmmm: you are saying that Social Democrats…reflect popular opinion.”

I found an article: that provides some insight on Bernie and AOC ideas, which, of course, are moderate in your point of view. Judging by the public’s reaction to these moderate ideas, I am certain that the country is not yet ready for the extreme left positions. As a Republican, I hope that will always be the case.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@crazyguy there’s no way you can fault CNN for Trump’s direct quote. The media didn’t twist Trump’s words. No matter his intent, he openly declared a cop’s murdering a suspect equivalent to a golfer missing a putt. That is beyond dispute, and you can’t blame the network for playing the recording back by claiming they somehow put words in his mouth. A gaffe now and then is inevitable from even the most astute individual, but a motor mouth driven by an empty head betrays an alarming absence of judgement with virtually every breath. There has never in my lifetime been a public figure so certain to guarantee disaster at the approach of a microphone or tweet keyboard.

gorillapaws's avatar

@hmmmmmm ^^THIS^^. Remember when CNN was caught stacking Bernie’s townhall with plants and then misrepresenting their backgrounds? AT&T would much rather have Trump than Bernie in office, same for the other corporate owners of media: Comcast, Disney, Amazon, etc. Or the Bernie Blackout?

@crazyguy “I am certain that the country is not yet ready for the extreme left positions.”

Bernie would be considered “right wing” by many 1st world nations. And the people on the left in those countries would be considered “right wing” in an ACTUAL “extreme left” country like Cultural Revolution-era China. CNN/MSNBC don’t invite on people from the REAL radical left, nor people from the moderate left, so people like yourself are lead to believe that the furthest left the spectrum goes is Bernie.

crazyguy's avatar

@stanleybmanly Here are the exact words:

“Nevertheless, Trump proceeded Monday to say of police officers: “They choke just like in a golf tournament. They miss a 3-foot putt.”

It was then that Ingraham interjected, telling the president: “You’re not comparing it to golf, because of course that’s what the media would say.”

“I’m saying people choke. People choke,” Trump responded. “And people are bad people. You have both. You have some bad people and you have — they choke.”

I heard the comments live, and the transcript confirms my recollections.The transcript is at

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yes @crazyguy. Those were his exact words. And they’re just as damning now as they were when he said them. Just because CNN quoted him isn’t a sign that they’re anti trump. It’s a sign that our president is an idiot.

crazyguy's avatar

@gorillapaws I realize everything is relative. But I am speaking only of the US today. In the US today Biden has become left, almost as far as Bernie. The Democrats seem to think their losses at the center will be more than made up by gains at the extreme – I think they will be surprised…and disappointed.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@crazyguy: “But I am speaking only of the US today. In the US today Biden has become left, almost as far as Bernie. The Democrats seem to think their losses at the center will be more than made up by gains at the extreme – I think they will be surprised…and disappointed.”

Biden’s corpse was rolled out specifically to stop the left from gaining any power in the Democratic party. There is nothing “almost as far as Bernie” about Biden. His candidacy represents the loss of the “fix the Democratic party” project. Bernie was wrong that it could be fixed. Anyway, we have Biden and Harris, which is laughable to be running in any way as an “opposition” to a Republican. But especially today in the context of #MeToo and #BLM, the Biden/Harris push was a big “fuck you” to the left. Again.

Bernie is way to the right of me and most people I know. This FDR-style oldschool social democrat, however, was enough to gain tremendous momentum and enthusiasm it had lost when it abandoned the working class in the early 1990s. This was the compromise candidate that could bring it all together. It could save a dying party. But again they chose to unite with the “Stop Sanders” movement, and succeeded in risking losing again in order to maintain their funding model. They would rather rule in the minority than change.

As they did in 2016, the message they have pushed is that young people, working people, and the left don’t really matter. What they really need to do is appeal to the mythical never-Trump conservative suburban voter. That’s who they are going for again. They just might pull it off, and we’re all screwed.

Don’t pretend that Biden/Harris represents anything other than a minor change in policies (around the edges) that will appear to be more “civilized” (as long as they keep Biden from talking in public) and will save the US from the crass idiocy of Trump. It’s not a movement from the left. It’s not a deep ideological push. It’s a special edition of HGTV’s House Hunters, and the Bidens are looking for something in the Pennsylvania Avenue area of DC with good light and plenty of space.

Dutchess_III's avatar

“Attacking Joe Biden and seeking to exploit reports that his rival is struggling with Latino voters, Donald Trump boasted on Sunday of receiving “the highly honored Bay of Pigs award” from Cuban Americans in the battleground state of Florida.

Perhaps inevitably, and to the glee of the internet, no such award exists.”

He. Is. So. Damn. Dumb.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I wonder how much of the $100 million Bloomberg offered to Biden’s campaign in Florida that bogus award cost ?? $50 or maybe $75.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What? Do you think it isn’t true?

crazyguy's avatar

@Dutchess_III CNN did not quote those words – they misrepresented them!

Yes Trump is somewhat gullible. Although I would believe your comment more if it was accompanied with a link.

@hmmmmmm I wish the left had won the Democratic nomination. If the left is as extreme as you seem to think, the election would have been called one week after the conventions.

@Tropical_Willie Are you saying the award exists?

gorillapaws's avatar

@crazyguy “I realize everything is relative. But I am speaking only of the US today.”

67% of American support Medicare for All. That’s not some fringe idea, that’s the vast majority in favor of it.

60% of Americans (give or take) believe marijuana should be legalized. That’s not a fringe idea.

75% of Americans support bringing home troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. Not fringe or extreme.

There are plenty more examples.

@crazyguy “Biden has become left, almost as far as Bernie…”

I wish. I’d happily vote for him if I thought he’d do anything other than pull the DNC even further to the right, implement austerity measures (for the budget) while giving away billions to his corporate donors and likely create a popular, right-wing backlash that could give us a 2024 president that would make the blue-no-matter-who Democrats remember Trump with fondness—the way the DNC now seems to embrace and even celebrate warmongers like Bush.

Biden on the issues vs. Hawkins, Sanders and Trump

hmmmmmm's avatar

@crazyguy: “I wish the left had won the Democratic nomination. If the left is as extreme as you seem to think, the election would have been called one week after the conventions.”

You need to get out of your bubble. Not everyone is as rich as white as you. There are people who have kids and hope that the earth will be habitable during their lifetimes. There are people who believe in democracy and freedom beyond just slogans. There are those who feel that people shouldn’t die just because they can’t afford to pay for a health insurance executive’s yacht. There are those who feel that it’s critical for the US to not be a shit country. There are those who feel that the US military is one of the greatest threats to the world, and don’t want to fund brutal regimes just to make new markets for cheap labor. There are those that feel that workers generate wealth – not owners. There are those who feel education should be a right rather than a means for perpetuating class. There are those that feel that women should be able to control their bodies. There are those who don’t want to live in a police state, and don’t want to submit the population to state terrorism. There are those who feel that scaring the population into fearing “races” or religions or nationalities are tools used by fascists to consolidate control. There are people who want to be able to retire some day. There are those who want to have a place to live.

Have to run. But I assure you that if you were to walk out of your gated community and talk to people, you’d find that – despite decades of ubiquitous right-wing capitalist propaganda – people are generally open to equity and fairness. They don’t want to live in a hellscape of rich people exploiting workers and killing the planet. They really don’t.

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