Social Question

seawulf575's avatar

Should we impeach Biden now?

Asked by seawulf575 (11839points) 1 month ago

President Trump was being investigated for using Congress approved aid to Ukraine as a lever for getting Ukraine to investigate Biden. This was the foundation of the impeachment efforts. It is apparently bad enough to warrant impeaching a president. When it was brought up that Joe Biden bragged about doing that exact thing as VP, the response was that Biden isn’t POTUS. If he gets elected we could look at it at that time. Well, here we are. He is the presumptive winner of the election. So if he is sworn into office on January 20th, shouldn’t congress, in good conscience, start impeachment at that very moment?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

90 Answers

jca2's avatar

You should add in the details that anybody who says “no,” you’re going to argue with.

rebbel's avatar

He is the president elect.

Jeruba's avatar

Sure. If you hurry up, you could get it accomplished before he takes office. Then, with any luck, you could see Nancy Pelosi one step away from the White House.

Hamb's avatar

Go for it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Still playing this card, it’s getting very old.

zenvelo's avatar

Comparing Biden’s oranges to Trump’s rotten apples.

Joe Biden was out and public with the US efforts to get rid of a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor. Trump was intending to have a foreign country interfere with a US election through supplying fake information.

Trump escaped being removed from office by GOP senators beholden to his corruption.

ragingloli's avatar

When it was brought up that Joe Biden bragged about doing that exact thing as VP, the response was that Biden isn’t POTUS.
Wrong.
It was pointed out to you, repeatedly, and by multiple people, that it was not the same thing. Not even remotely.
Biden was enacting official policy, with cooperation of other western countries.
The Orangutan was extorting Ukraine to interfere in the election by digging up dirt on Biden (and according to Bolton, Drumpf tried to get China to do the same), and he used his private lawyer to facilitate this conspiracy. He did not even care about truthful results, he wanted the public announcement of an investigation.

You can keep repeating this lie as much as you want, it does not make it any more true.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Get over it !

TRUMP LOST ! !

Demosthenes's avatar

Yes. It will probably fail, just as the impeachment of Trump failed. Impeachment is just a way to refuse to accept a president you don’t like, so this is keeping in tone with its function.

si3tech's avatar

Had he won you could.

Hamb's avatar

@si3tech: “Had he won you could.”

Is someone going to break the news to @si3tech?

chyna's avatar

“If he is sworn into office on January 20….” Biden won. There is no if. It is WHEN he is sworn into office…
@Hamb No, we will let him dream a little longer.

ragingloli's avatar

@Hamb
He and many others have already fully embraced and internalised Drumpf’s Dolchstoßlegende.

janbb's avatar

@ragingloli Thank God there’s a word in German for everything. I don’t know what you said but I love the way you said it.

kritiper's avatar

No. That would be the same as arresting and bringing someone to criminal court without probable cause.

Jeruba's avatar

@janbb, here you go. From a conservative columnist, too.

“The main point of the exercise is no longer (if it ever seriously was) to find a judge, governor or other pliable instrument to deny Joe Biden the presidency. It is to deny the legitimacy of the Biden presidency, of the electoral system that gave him the office and of the federal and judicial systems that turned Trump’s legal challenges aside.

“The point of the farce is farce. It is to make an obscene joke of the Biden administration and our constitutional system of government.

“This was also the point of the Dolchstosslegende . . .”

seawulf575's avatar

@zenvelo No, Biden was not out in the open with his coercion. He told them, face to face, not on the record, when he was on his way back to his hotel and then on to the airport. His own admission, not mine. He only bragged about it later on. But the crime was committed, by his own admission.

seawulf575's avatar

@ragingloli “Biden was enacting official policy, with cooperation of other western countries.” Maybe you are unfamiliar with how our official policy works. Congress approved the aid, the POTUS has to give it or go back to congress to have them change it. If BIden was enacting official policy, what you are really saying is that Obama was complicit with an impeachable offense. After all, isn’t that what the Democrats said it was? A Quid pro Quo? Withholding aid to force them to do something personal for them? And if it was so important to get rid of this particular state prosecutor that it was worth withholding aid, that should have been a stipulation put in place by congress, not Biden on the tarmac.
As for cooperation with other western countries, there are several aspects there that are just plain wrong. First off, we don’t take our marching orders from other western countries. They don’t get to tell us where we will give $1B in aid. Secondly, I can’t find a single reference anywhere that Germany, the EU, or any other group threatened to withhold aid unless Shokin was removed from office. So if it was a common goal (cooperation with other western countries), why isn’t there some effort from one of these other western countries to withhold aid until it happened?

jca2's avatar

I was right.

rockfan's avatar

Fun fact, based on the rulings of the Nuremberg trials, every president from the past 30 years should be hanged for war crimes. Of course I’m not saying that they should be hanged, but a few of them should definitely be in jail…

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@jca2 did you for a second think you were not?

jca2's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: I felt like there’s always hope I was wrong. Hahahaha!

Darth_Algar's avatar

@si3tech

You folks love to cling to your delusions, don’t you?

Jeruba's avatar

Also this. Please do look. Excerpt:

“The startling aspect about the Dolchstosslegende is this: It did not grow weaker after 1918 but stronger. In the face of humiliation and unable or unwilling to cope with the truth, many Germans embarked on a disastrous self-delusion: The nation had been betrayed, but its honor and greatness could never be lost. And those without a sense of national duty and righteousness — the left and even the elected government of the new republic — could never be legitimate custodians of the country.”

stanleybmanly's avatar

Impeachment is the province of the House—the DEMOCRATIC House. “WE” aren’t going to impeach anyone and “WE” know it. “WE” should therefore follow our own advice— “accept the results of this election” and at least wait for screwups as egregious as those which distinguish the current lame duck and monument to disgrace.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly So what you are saying is that Trump’s impeachment was nothing but a political ploy. Thank you for admitting that. You are either admitting that or you are saying that the Democrats, as a party, are so corrupt they won’t stop or punish corruption in one of their own.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I so tire of you telling me what I’m saying. I am admitting only that you are attempting to raise a ridiculous proposition that is going NOWHERE. And you have some nerve faulting Democrats after the spineless 4 year display of cowardice and moral lassitude from lily livered Republicans in the service of your criminal jackass. Find something LEGITIMATE on which to fault Biden, and stop whining. Rejoice with the rest of us at the toppling of that simpering mountebank.

jca2's avatar

@stanleybmanly: You should know by now that what @seawulf575 does is he takes what people say and twists it and then tells Jellies his version of what he thinks they were saying.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@jca2 I think Rep/cons call it spinning but same thing.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 How would you interpret what he said? He said the Impeachment belongs in the House and the Democrats control the House and they aren’t going to impeach anyone. Forget that Biden admitted to doing what the Dems felt was completely illegal when they claimed Trump did it. Same crime, different attitude. What’s the difference? Oh yeah…they either impeached Trump on completely bogus charges or they are entirely corrupt. Take your choice. How else can you even interpret what he said?

Response moderated
Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Response moderated
mazingerz88's avatar

Hard to emphatize with those suffering because trump lost.

Those who separated kids from parents at the border hardly deserves symphaty.

What Biden did wasn’t illegal.

Insisting that it was is mere desperation and way too heavy bitterness borne out of losing an election.

I’m just so happy trump is suffering. He is being forced out and separated from his racist, corrupt and cruel White House. He deserves to be put in a cage.

stanleybmanly's avatar

But the allegation that Biden
duplicated Trump’s crimes is nonsense regardless of the silly lamentations. I cringe with embarrassment for the poor sap posting such hopeless nonsense with such determination and ruthless persistence. It’s the sort of fare fed to folks so stupid they are beyond remedial education. How can you avoid concluding that those disseminating such crap aren’t being paid to do so? Such a conclusion is far more charitable (and much more likely) than to accept the idea that they actually are dumb enough to believe such preposterous drivel.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@stanleybmanly When the poster first presented this question, we all agreed if a crime was committed he should pay for it, but that wasn’t good enough.
Trump did his supposed quid for personal gain, Biden did not still not good enough, I don’t know what he wanted from us?
If Biden was guilty and could be proven the Rep/cons would have pushed charges at that time but they did not.
What does the poster want from us?
Except to push his extreme right wing views on us with his slanted FACTS???

mazingerz88's avatar

^^The poster is smart enough to know if he’s turning himself into a silly clown. So yes, maybe he’s being paid? Maybe by Betsy DeVos or the Mercer family.

seawulf575's avatar

@mazingerz88 Just a reminder that it was Obama and Biden that started that separation of children from parents on the border and putting them in cages.
As for what Biden did, it was every bit as illegal as what the Dems impeached Trump for. It was the exact same thing…withholding aid to get a favor, with Ukraine….the exact same thing. So if you are saying it wasn’t illegal, then you are saying the Dems just impeached Trump on no grounds whatsoever…just to say they did it.

mazingerz88's avatar

Here we go again. Yeah it’s exactly the same thing. When are we ever going to graduate from kindergarten when talking about this issue of separating kids from parents?

You did it.
But you started it.
But my intention was good.
Mine too.
Nope.
Yup.
Nope.
Yup.

seawulf575's avatar

Sorry, it was you that opened that door. Of course, it was a warped door. I just set it straight for you. But you’re right…it’s hard to have sympathy for people like that. Just make sure you are looking at the right people. Because it was Trump that stopped that practice…not your heroes.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Here is a snippet from the BBC news…The claim: US President Donald Trump has repeated his assertion that he inherited – and ended – a policy from President Obama that separates children from parents who cross the US-Mexico border illegally.

Verdict: The policy was introduced under the Trump administration. He subsequently ended that policy, but some family separations have continued to take place.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Remember all those horrible pictures of kids in cages? Yeah, those were all from Obama. Kinda hard to say it didn’t happen. Sorry, that dog don’t hunt.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Sorry going to call fake news on you the best I can find in your defence is those cages and centres were built during the Obama administration, that alone is bad enough but it was your Don Father that actually started using them and seperating children.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

How much is “Putin’s Chef” paying you?

mazingerz88's avatar

trump separated kids from parents for reasons only evil people would find urgent and rational. Jeff Sessions and Stephen Miller led that charge. trump the evil dumb clown that he is just let it happen. I’m also just being dumb trying to explain this to trump cultists.

But yeah. Biden beat trump. Yey!

No amount of pathetic and dangerous attempts by trump and his political minions to destroy American Democracy by mocking the electoral process should diminish the joy from that victory.

There are millions more good people here in this country. Life here despite the hardships, chaos, confusion and stupid drama is still great!

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
https://www.businessinsider.com/photos-migrant-children-policy-under-trump-obama-2018-6

So do you consider Business Insider Fake News? How about this one:

https://www.westernjournal.com/viral-photo-of-caged-children-actually-from-obama-era-nothing-to-do-with-trump/

I know…Oooohhh Western Journal!!!! Orange Man Bad!!! This can’t be a reliable source!!!!. But read the article. You have a lot of lefties going crazy about Trump locking up children and they are all showing the same pictures. But the article specifies exactly where those pictures come from:

https://www.azcentral.com/picture-gallery/news/politics/immigration/2014/06/18/first-glimpse-of-immigrant-children-at-holding-facility/10808687/

Those pictures were around in 2014. So who was POTUS in 2014? Oh yeah…Obama. So if Trump is the one caging children and these pictures are used as proof, how could they exist in 2014?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Orange man is an ASSHAT !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok Wulfie what the fuck do you want from us?
The photos are from 2014 but the articles are from 2018? interesting.
Why did your hero keep the practice going if it was the evil Obama that started it?
Trump has been on a crusade to undo absolutely everything Obama did including doing away with the affordable care act,so why did he keep putting kids in cages so long?
And stop with the it started with Obama thing ,that is getting super old.
I know to you everything wrong in the world is Obama’s fault even after he been out of office for 4 years.

Yellowdog's avatar

Trump abolished the practice in the Spring of 2018.

Those apprehended at the border who wish to enter legally are detained in Mexico by the border patrol.

jca2's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: Dontcha know they have to either blame Hillary or Obama?

chyna's avatar

@yellowdog Sources please?

chyna's avatar

From your own source @Yellowdog “trump again called on Congress to pass legislation to address the issue of family separations, which was created by his administration’s policy.”
So this admits it was trump and not Obama who created this policy.

chyna's avatar

Also this article does not say whether it was passed or not.
Do you even read it before you posted it @Yellowdog?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 What I want from you guys is to admit you are wrong. The policy of caging children and separating them from their parents actually started under Obama. It was a policy in place when Trump took office. And it was Trump that stopped the policy. It wasn’t a big deal to you fools on the left until you were looking for something to attack Trump with.
But let me ask something on this particular topic. The parents were committing a crime…entering our country illegally. So is it your belief that if a parent commits a crime and they have to go to jail, we should not put them there simply because they are parents? Or that we should put their kids in jail with them because we don’t want to separate children from their parents? Is that how they do things in Canada? If you have someone commit armed robbery, do they arrest the children with the parents?

chyna's avatar

@wulfie did you read @Yellowdogs article?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah Wulfie read your fright wings article it did say it was TRUMP’S policy.
The only thing about yours was the photo was supposed to be from 2014. so it had to be all OBAMA ,poor little orange guy was just carrying on.
If that was happening under Obama’s watch you fright wingers would have hung him on it.
Personally I never heard it before it came to light under the Don Father.
NOW before you say I didn’t answer your question OF course you wouldn’t put a child in jail with the parents,everything would be done to see if they could be placed with relatives if that wasn’t possible they would be placed in Foster care.

stanleybmanly's avatar

As things stand, it isn’t Biden who must worry about prosecution. The same cannot be said for our fool who will be lucky if he can board that helicopter before being served with a slew of indictments and lawsuits.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 So you didn’t hear about it before Trump was in office. Yet by the photographs, it was obviously being done under Obama. So what does that tell you? The media and you fine folks on the left don’t really care about the children, only what you can try smearing Trump with. But at least you are making progress…you finally admit that you wouldn’t put the children in jail. So you agree that separating children from their parents might be the right thing in some circumstances. So let’s get the rest of this silliness out. There are times these children aren’t really the offspring of the people they are traveling with. They are being used as tickets into the country. Is it okay to separate these children from people using them? What about children that were sent by themselves as also happens? What about people bringing the children in as part of human trafficking? Is it okay to separate children from these people? And if we can separate the children from the adults they are with, then what do we do with them? Yes, you have a wonderful pat answer…put them with relatives or into foster care. Suppose you can’t identify their relatives? Suppose they are some of those traveling with strangers (or at least non-relatives) or are by themselves? Well, that eliminates the relative option. AND, even looking for the relatives or finding foster care can be an immensely time consuming. So what do you do with them before that? Think it through…don’t be a parrot of the left.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna I hadn’t, but now I have. I know you are latching onto one sentence as some sort of “gotcha!”. That sentence is an opinion from NPR if you follow the link. And it entirely ignores all the other evidence that is out there that separating children at the border and putting them in cages was done under Obama. But please, feel free to address any of the many questions I have posed to @SQUEEKY2.

jca2's avatar

@chyna: Look at that. The King of the Gotcha accuses someone else of the gotcha.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh for shits sake @seawulf575 If it was being done under Obama as you claim the right would have jumped all over it you guys would give your left nut for a chance to bash Obama at ANYTHING!

Why did it take 4 years for the Obama photo to surface?
About the children in cages?
If true does that make Obama wrong and Trump right for doing the same thing?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And once again anything we say is just propaganda while you show us your so called facts,how do we know that photo is really from 2014 and not a conspiracy story to get the heat off your Orange god?
After all if all we do is link propaganda , maybe you can as well.

chyna's avatar

If Obama did do this, and I don’t think he did, trump had 4 years to fix it. Why didn’t he? Same thing with health care. trump had 4 years to fix it. Why didn’t he? He’s too busy tweeting and golfing to do anything productive for this country.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Why did it take 4 years for the Obama photo to surface? It surfaced in 2014. But you guys on the left didn’t see anything wrong with it at the time. It wasn’t until someone used those exact same photos as proof of how Trump was abusing people at the border that it became a huge deal. And when it was pointed out those were from 2014…Obama…you guys really didn’t care. You had already started with the TDS so facts no longer mattered. A better question might be why didn’t it matter under Obama? If it is such a horrible act, why are you guys defending Obama for it? Does it make Obama wrong and Trump right? But please explain how it can be wrong for Trump and right for Obama. That is the idiocy I am pointing out here. And if it is wrong…then Biden was a part of that action. He was just as culpable since he was #2 in the administration. So if it was wrong…Biden is part of it. If it wasn’t wrong, then why are you attacking Trump for it?

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna Take a look at the article @Yellowdog posted. It was from June of 2018. He was changing it then. Here’s a question for you. If this is such a horrible thing, then why aren’t you holding Congress accountable? INCLUDING DEMOCRATS! They are the ones that could easily have put something into place as law to deal with the issue. Instead, they wanted to just argue with everything Trump suggested and try doing like you are doing…smearing him for something that was in place for a decade. The STILL haven’t done anything to change any of the issues at the border. It is still one of the perennial campaign promises we hear. Trump changed the practice despite congress…not in conjunction with them, as it should be.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I am not defending Obama like I said I never heard of it before Trump was doing it.
And everything I heard it was Trump’s policy, but here you come in on your white horse saying oh no this started under Obama,I am disgusted either of them did it.

As for my lame excuse of saying place the child with relatives or foster care, the best the US could do or should have done is contact child services in whatever country they came from and send them back.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Deport them back to where they came from? That isn’t acceptable to the lefties in this country either. That is the other part of the argument…that they should be released into our nation until some nebulous time in the future…if they choose to show up again. And the part of the argument that really applies is that the parents are being detained for a criminal action. So to deport the children back to their home nation is still separating children from their parents. The left believes we should just have no borders. Anyone who wants to should be able to enter our country whenever they want, and be instantly qualified for any and all social entitlements. They believe we shouldn’t detain the parents…we should just let the entire family in without question. Let me ask (because I already know the answer), is that how Canada does it? Would that be acceptable to your country?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I don’t actually know how Canada does it.
Wulfie you say you are not hateful but your answers sure come across that way,with absolutely everything wrong in the world today is the democrats fault.
These people must be trying to flee absolute horrible conditions because for the life of me I can’t understand why anyone would want to live in the US, No universal health care, Alot of states have no minimum wage.a welfare system that pays only in food stamps.
And now a Pandemic out of control.yeah the states has it all.

jca2's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: Plus non-citizens are not eligible for public assistance, rental assistance, food stamps. Unless they get some kind of dispensations for asylum, which has to be applied for an approved, they can’t just come here and live high on the hog for free. Yes, they can go to the hospital for medical care if there’s something urgent, but despite the Republicans’ claims, they’re not going to march into Social Services and be eligible for all kinds of $$$$.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You probably know less about the US than I know about Canada. Let me help you a bit. We have no universal health care as they do in Canada…that is true. But then, why do tens of thousands of Canadians come to the US for medical treatment every year? It’s because the universal healthcare has huge waiting lines for necessary treatments. So I’m not sure how universal healthcare would make us better. If it did, we wouldn’t get so much business from north of the border.
EVERY state has a minimum wage. They have to since there is a federal minimum wage. So your information there is entirely wrong. As for the welfare systems, we have SNAP (food stamps), but we also have LIHEAP for paying bills, section 8 housing, TANF (temporary assistance for needy families…i.e. cash), Medicaid, Supplemental Security Income (SSI), Earned Income credit programs, and probably several others. So your information there is extremely lacking.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Just try to find a Canadian willing to trade their healthcare system for ours. Of course there will be rich Canadians arriving here for nose jobs and tummy tucks, but before the drug companies bribed the Congress to make it illegal, Americans by the tens of thousands were invading Canada to fill their prescriptions. In fact, to this day, you might well say that a major component of illegal drug trade in the United States is around the import of American pharmaceuticals from Canada and Mexico. I don’t care where you live (or pretend to live) you betray yourself as either a fraudulent disseminator of misinformation or straight up stooge to advocate our setup in preference to Canada’s.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok Wulfie I do know some Canadians do travel south for medical procedures right away rather than wait for their turn in the Canadian system,but your full of shit with your over exaggerated tens of thousand claim and you know it.
And those going south can afford it good for them.
But at least our system you won’t face financial ruin if you don’t have to proper health care insurance .
It has it’s problems but at least it treats everyone equal unlike your wonderful system.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Umm….yeah. About those tens of thousands I hate to say it is true. Now granted that this article was from 5 years ago. But it says somewhere around 52,000 in 2015 which is up from 41,000 in 2014. So no, I’m not full of shit and I am not exaggerating. You are, however, woefully uninformed.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Funny, there’s nothing in that article that does not apply to the United States as well.

seawulf575's avatar

@Darth_Algar When the article is about the shortcomings of universal healthcare, why would it?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 If your wonderful system is just the best why are there only two countries in the entire planet have private health care?
The US being one of them,if your system is so fucking great that is??

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I’m not saying our system is perfect….far from it. But if your wonderful system is just the best, why do so many of your citizens come to our inferior one when they want to get treatments?

stanleybmanly's avatar

Where did he make a claim that his system is best? Rather than making idiotic claims, you should improve your reading comprehension. Increasingly, both Americans and Canadians (the smart ones ) fly right over this country to get first class medical procedures at a tenth of the expense here. Cuba, for example is a huge beneficiary of our fkd up healthcare delivery system, and the word is getting out.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly I find it amazing how you can get bunched up about something like the phrase I used about @SQUEEKY2‘s system being the best. You get indignant and ask when he said that and that I need to improve my reading comprehension. Yet I took that exact phrase from his own answer just before that. So why aren’t you all over him? I never said our healthcare system was the best either. Why aren’t you lecturing him on reading comprehension? Oh wait! He’s a lefty just like you! Never mind. He can say and do whatever goofy thing he wants and will always be right. Pretty much how you view all things in this country, right?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh my bitter little wulf, any health care system that doesn’t leave one in financial ruin, over charge for health insurance, and doesn’t hurt people with pre existing conditions is far better than what the states have.
Plus I never said the Canadian system was the best, just better that than any private for profit health care system that the dollar comes first and people some where down the list.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Come on now, America has the best health care racket, uh I mean system, in the world. Open your mouth and say, ahhhh! That will be $800.00 for two Tylenol and a cup of water.

chyna's avatar

They have a bus here in my state that takes people to Canada once a month to purchase their insulin as it’s much cheaper in Canada. This was pre Covid, of course.

ragingloli's avatar

I believe that Canada has just introduced a ban on mass export of medicine to the colonies, after drumpf relaxed regulations on drug importation.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Your insistence that we are ganging upon you is humorous in view of the fact that not even you can deny the fundamental fact that both Canada and Canadians are better off than Americans regarding our convoluted and financially ruinous insurance protocols. The fact that Canadians flock here for facelifts or liposuction in no way serves to bolster any assertion of better care OR coverage, and of course I am upset when one us makes a statement and you pimp your warped distortion of it as truth. You are just one big warehouse of blatant distortion and oddball logic.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Response moderated
Response moderated
Response moderated (Flame-Bait)

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther