General Question

crazyguy's avatar

Can vaccinated people still spread COVID?

Asked by crazyguy (2002points) 2 weeks ago

I asked the same question of Google. The best article (that The NY Times let me read!) was at:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

The theory seems to be that antibodies produced as a result of the vaccine may have a hard time penetrating the mucous layer that surrounds the nose and other parts of the respiratory system. Since the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are injected into a muscle, the thinking seems to be that not enough antibodies would make it into the nose. Therefore, even vaccinated people could carry enough virus in the nose to be a danger to others.

Personally I find the theory defective on two counts:

1. The human body is much smarter than doctors and scientists think.
2. The virus is too smart to just stay in the nose.

What do you think?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

46 Answers

janbb's avatar

Who could argue with someone who thinks he, as well as the body and the virus, are much smarter than doctors and scientists?

stanleybmanly's avatar

Some engineer don’t you think?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@crazyguy Put yourself in for Stable Genius of 2021 ! J.K.

1. The human body is much smarter than doctors and scientists think.
2. The virus is too smart to just stay in the nose.

SMFH !

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

We don’t know and there is no good reason to guess.

We will find out soon.

janbb's avatar

@Tropical_Willie ‘s link also contains the feature that you can use to find where you are in line in your state to get the vaccine. It is not from The New York Times like Jay’s so anyone can access it Of course, non one knows yet how fast the lines will move.

si3tech's avatar

I would wonder if they still could. Have seen where several got the virus weeks after having the vaccine.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And let’s not forget that it will soon be a case of which strain of covid 19 we are talking about. The lopsided crowd of anti-vaxxers alone is just another indicator of the probable chances regarding our timeline on the emergence from (mathematically assured) catastrophe.

crazyguy's avatar

@janbb I am not trying to argue. I just stated my position. If that is too hard for you to understand, just say so.

@Call_Me_Jay I disagree. There is a very good reason to find out the answer. So we don’t have to wear those goddamned masks!

@si3tech Link please!

crazyguy's avatar

@janbb I did not find the link.

JLeslie's avatar

My guess is it’s really doubtful after the second dose, but they don’t know for sure yet.

It seems to me (I’m not a doctor) that theoretically if you do still catch covid after the vaccination it’s much more likely to be a mild case or asymptomatic and then you could be unwittingly shedding the virus just like what happens now.

Anyway, the most important thing is to keep wearing our masks and distancing, because we definitely need the people who aren’t vaccinated doing it.

This isn’t like the last 50 years where children get vaccinated while over 90% of the population is already immune to something. We’re starting from scratch like the days of polio in the US and smallpox, so we all need to be patient. Even flu vaccine every year we do that before the flu is hitting our shores in a big way, so we are ahead of it and parts of the population already have some immunity to some strains. This covid thing is here already and still moving through the population quickly when people let it.

SergeantQueen's avatar

Probably a different strain or a mild case.

I rejected the vaccine. Waiting for my questions to be answered first, such as this. Then I will consider getting it.

JLeslie's avatar

@SergeantQueen Why does this have anything to do with getting the vaccine? The more people who are immune the faster we get rid of covid.

I would just assume the powers in charge want all the idiots out there to keep wearing their masks and this messaging is the best way to do that. Too many unvaccinated people will stop feeling pressure to wear a mask if half the population stops wearing one because they are vaccinated.

Part of public safety is trying to get the public to continue to behave in a safe way.

Also, a side effect right now is the flu is staying at very low levels because of the mask wearing and distancing. That’s really good. We don’t want to start getting lots of flu cases in the hospitals.

Caravanfan's avatar

Nobody knows for sure yet. Certainly, however, not taking the vaccine will ensure more spread.

The vaccine is completely safe. Anybody who is afraid of side effects does not realize the full extent of what can go bad. (I currently have 5 people in the ICU dying of COVID on a ventilator). I beg of everybody, please take the vaccine when you can.

crazyguy's avatar

@jca2 Thanks. I saw the link earlier but I guess I did not go down far enough.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie Far as I can determine there have been zero instances of a vaccinated person (most of them with just one dose) catching covid.

The article I linked gave a plausible reason for possible spreading. The reason is that the vaccine creates antibodies from the injection point outwards and the produced antibodies may not make it into the nose in time. Since most covid cases start in the nose, it is theoretically possible for a vaccinated person to pick up a nasal infection and spread it.

That seems fairly far-fetched to me. Talk about snatching a half-empty cup from a full cup! You say: “the most important thing is to keep wearing our masks and distancing, because we definitely need the people who aren’t vaccinated doing it.” To me that comment illustrates your political leaning. If a vaccinated person is incapable of catching or spreading the disease, why on earth should s/he continue wearing a goddamn mask?

crazyguy's avatar

@SergeantQueen I sure hope they now put you at the absolute back of the line!

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy Not my political leanings, it demonstrates how I understand group behavior.

I am basically saying I don’t really buy into what the scientists are saying about a risk of spreading the virus once fully vaccinated and you think that makes me sound like a Democrat? Think about that.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie “I would just assume the powers in charge want all the idiots out there to keep wearing their masks and this messaging is the best way to do that.” WELL SAID!

@Caravanfan Even if the unlikely scenario imagined by The NY Times comes true in a limited number of cases, the dangers of catching Covid easily outweigh the risks of getting vaccinated.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SergeantQueen don’t you work at a long-term care facility ?? How can you “I rejected the vaccine. Waiting for my questions to be answered first, such as this. Then I will consider getting it.” ? ?

In my state it is 100% vaccination for all long-term care facility workers.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie So now you don’t believe the scientists? Think about your past statements.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I believe there is a remote possibility, I just think it is remote. I think the main goal is to keep people wearing masks and distancing, which I agree with. I am completely consistent.

There have been people who caught covid after being vaccinated.

You can’t trust people to understand all of the information. A ton of people will think once they are vaccinated they are immune. Doesn’t matter how many times you tell them it is about 7–10 days after the second dose. So, that means if someone is vaccinated today with moderna it is still 5–6 weeks until they are really considered immune. Considering how slowly vaccination is going, it will be MONTHS until we should even think about not requiring masks in supermarkets and airplanes. People can’t tell if the person next to them is vaccinated, all they know is the person next to them has on a mask or doesn’t.

I say don’t over analyze it just wear the mask! I know you do. Be part of the solution for a safer society.

If people want to start being with family and friends again in their personal lives, because the family has been vaccinated, I am on board with that too, but in public places mask up and be considerate of other people’s comfort and safety.

Again, I am not a doctor.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

A friend’s father died yesterday from covid. The vaccine literally came about a week late to help him. He was in a nursing home, in the top priority group for the shot. It’s so tragic.

JLeslie's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay That is heartbreaking. To be so close.

Caravanfan's avatar

@SergeantQueen I don’t hope you go to the end of the line. I hope that you get your vaccine as soon as possible and that you are comfortable with it. My 29 year old patient is going to die today. It is heartbreaking. Please don’t let this happen to you or your family.

JLeslie's avatar

@Caravanfan Sorry to hear that. I know you worked really hard to try to save him.

Caravanfan's avatar

@JLeslie He just died. It’s all just so tragic and preventable. Our hearts are broken.

janbb's avatar

@Caravanfan Sending a distanced virtual hug, FWIW.

SergeantQueen's avatar

I hope no one thinks I am a conspiracy nut. Plenty of other people I work with are waiting it out. I will get it but I am not getting it first.

I shouldn’t have brought it up. It is irrelevant to the question I was just sharing that things like this question are whats causing me to be cautious. I want 100% of my questions asked and then I will get it.

I am sorry for bringing it up and/or possibly upsetting people.

SergeantQueen's avatar

It isn’t required. I am also waiting because I am quitting soon and won’t be working when I am supposed to get the 2nd shot. I won’t take advantage. I will let the people who are going to stay get it. Then I will.

SergeantQueen's avatar

I am fine with being put in the back of the line. Any consequences as a result of me waiting are my own fault. I don’t mind. I am not working in the home much longer. It seems rude to get it then leave. They are limited. Let the people who need it get it first.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie Can you provide a link for “There have been people who caught covid after being vaccinated.” Just anecdotally a doctor friend of mine who owns a hospital said today that one of the nurses in his hospital tested positive about a week after getting her shot, but she was asymptomatic.

I strongly believe in individual responsibility. If somebody wants to go dancing and prancing about the day after their first shot, let ‘em. It is up to the people around them to protect themselves.

crazyguy's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay We’ll hear a lot more stories like that in the coming days. Unfortunately, the vaccine could not be released any sooner. The ones I really feel for are the ones in the placebo groups that caught covid.

crazyguy's avatar

@Caravanfan By being double-minded about taking the vaccine, @SergeantQueen probably deprived somebody else of a shot. That is the reason that I think doubters or those who change their minds after saying no the first time, should go to the back end of the line.

crazyguy's avatar

@SergeantQueen Here is what I think should happen:

1. Every institution (hospital, nursing home or whatever) should poll their population to determine how many doses are required.
2. Only that many doses should be requested in order to not hog.
3. If anybody who initially said no, wants a shot, they should politely be told it is too late.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@crazyguy once – - twice – - three – - – no FOUR times I’m glad you aren’t in charge of anything (like you think you are) ! !

JLeslie's avatar

@SergeantQueen I never thought you were a conspiracy nut.

@crazyguy Here’s one recent example.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/emergency-room-doctor-positive-covid-19-after-pfizer-vaccine-2020-12%3famp

I can’t seem to come up with the vaccine information from the research trials to get you more links. During the trials a very few people caught covid, but I don’t know which vaccines, if it was a different dose, if it only happened after the first dose, etc. The efficacy was very good after the second dose of both Moderna and Pfizer as you know.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie The link tried to redirect me to another location. That did not work, either.

It is true that there were some positives during the trials. That is why the calculated efficacy was not 100%.

The exact numbers are:

Pfizer trials: 8
Moderna trials: 11

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I could try to copy paste some of the article, but I need to be on my phone to do it I guess, on the app. If you are interested I will later tonight. It was about a doctor who had his first dose and then was with covid patients a lot, something like that, and wound up catching it.

The Pfizer and Moderna numbers you have, do you know if it was for the current dosages being given? After the second dose? I saw reports of a few people dying and supposed severe side effects during the trials of some of the vaccines, but some of those people received the placebo, so we really need to know the details to know how relevant the information is.

jca2's avatar

@JLeslie: That link doesn’t work for me, either.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie A “doctor who had his first dose and then was with covid patients a lot” does not answer the key question:
How many days after the one dose?

The numbers I gave were indeed for the dosages being given out now. I believe that is how the FDA determines what dosages are safe and efficacious. Yes they were after the second dose.

You say: “I saw reports of a few people dying and supposed severe side effects during the trials of some of the vaccines”. I recall hearing that some trials were stopped temporarily to investigate if a serious illness and/or death could be linked to the vaccine being tested. As I recall, none of the serious consequences could be traced to the vaccine.

If I didn’t know you better, I would be very suspicious of the implicit message in your post.

JLeslie's avatar

The article isn’t working for me either now. There is this article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kvue.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/vaccine/coronavirus-vaccine-doctor-tests-positive-bad-luck-timing/269-5c845a86-ab48-4be8-8f52-c90b5b573d14 but there was no time for this doctor to have built immunity. Maybe even they caught it before being vaccinated.

Neither article implied to me that there is any reason to question the efficacy of the vaccine, especially after the second dose.

@crazyguy We are agreeing. The deaths and most or all serious events during the trials were found to not be related to the vaccines. I say most or all, because maybe there was an allergic reaction or two during the trials.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie Now, you are talking. I believe that both vaccines are completely safe, and anybody who declines a dose when it is offered to them, is just plain stupid.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Fortunately for you and your cause, this country is CRAWLING with stupid people.

JLeslie's avatar

I never was saying differently.

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