General Question

mazingerz88's avatar

Why would somebody display a big Confederate flag outside his house on a street with predominantly Hispanic and Latin residents?

Asked by mazingerz88 (27199points) 1 week ago from iPhone

In a blue county in a blue state in this present year of 2022?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

78 Answers

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

That person is a bigot. They need no other reason.

hat's avatar

To announce their racism anx xenophobia to their latino/a neighbors (as a threat) and to signal (literally) to other racists that they have a friend and a safe space.

SnipSnip's avatar

I guess just because he can. I’m not really a flag flying, message bearing clothes, bumper sticker sticking kind of person.

Blackberry's avatar

They want to be approached so they can say “They stepped in my property I felt threatened, which is why I shot 3 mexicans.”

zenvelo's avatar

That person is an asshole. No other reason.

hat's avatar

It’s also a way to announce, “I don’t deserve to live.”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Isn’t that sorta like walking into a biker bar, and screaming I hate Harleys ?

KNOWITALL's avatar

Nothing good. Are they new neighbors?

You’ll have to let us know how this ends.

gondwanalon's avatar

That’s a fool who is asking to have his house burned to the ground by non-haters.

JLoon's avatar

Just another way of saying,
“HEY LOOK AT ME – I’m not just a loser, I forgot who won!!”

mazingerz88's avatar

@KNOWITALL Yes. New neighbor.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Because they’re mainstream Republicans.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

All I can tell you is that there are some people in the US that believe that the Confederate flag represents the desire to separate the south from the north.

I’ve asked several people regarding this and have read up on it. Two people are teachers. I still don’t understand the obsession with the flag.

To be fair, there are people who desire that the southern border be better controlled from illegal immigrants entering the US.

Demosthenes's avatar

Here in California that flag usually means neo-Nazis and you don’t see it outside of isolated rural communities.

HP's avatar

Badge of imagined defiance—one among many.

gorillapaws's avatar

Virtue signaling.

seawulf575's avatar

Huh. Why shouldn’t he be allowed to? Let me ask…if any of those Hispanic/Latin folks fly a Mexican flag or Mexican colors (or the flag of whatever country they are from) should the be shamed? After all, they are in the USA, not their home country. By flying their colors they could be triggering people that don’t like that.

JLeslie's avatar

One of many things is possible:

He’s a bigot. He’s proudly boasting he wants the old KKK South back.

Or,

He’s a bigot and willing to be violent to “protect his country.”

Or,

He’s an idiot and clueless. His friends like that flag and so does he. Some people have described it to me as thinking the flag is cute. They were from the Midwest. I think maybe they didn’t realize their circle of friends might be WS.

Or,

He’s a proud Southerner. He was raised thinking the confederate flag is a symbol of the South. They are in complete denial that the flag terrorizes people.

HP's avatar

Of course people should be allowed to advertise their views and values. It is actually quite useful for identifying the poor yokels so eager to advertise their perspective. Maga hats fulfill the same purpose, which is exactly why the 2 are so frequently paired. Both unbeknownst to their owners blare to all “I am a loser, and not very bright. Please take advantage of me.” This is the wonderful thing about America. There are folks running around in Navy sweatshirts with YALE emblazoned in large white letters—folks who couldn’t spell Yale without that shirt. Then there are others who fly flags equivalent to “I have the mentality of trailer trash and am proud of it”. Those of us capitalizing on their exploitability should be grateful for their eagerness to self identify. As the guy said in the movie “if God had not wanted them sheared, He would not have made them sheep”.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@seawulf575 While there is truth in your statement, it’s a completely different scenario. The Confederate flag represents the desire of the US south splitting from the northern US and becoming its own country with their own laws, which included allowing slavery.

Some of the neighbors are from countries other than the US. If they flew the flag of their country in their yard, I wouldn’t bat a eye. Isn’t that the attitude the US was based upon?

jca2's avatar

The person is screaming “I’m a clueless asshole who doesn’t care if I offend my friends and neighbors.”

Blackberry's avatar

Just a reminder to actually look up and read the south’s constitution. Some of these southern people act like the flag is about having catfish cookouts, but the south legitimately thought they were just gonna have slavery and act like it was gonna be normal.

“It’s ok we won’t hit em and we’ll be nicer to em, but we still need em.”

seawulf575's avatar

@Pied_Pfeffer Yet you are ignoring the past of other nations. For instance, Mexico had slavery for years and years. Even today their corruption allows human trafficking (slavery) to get through to our country. Drugs pour across our southern border and Mexico does nothing about it. Drug cartels hold much power in Mexico. Some might find these things offensive. So flying the flag might be offensive to them.

People love to call up our past and castigate it. We have indeed done stupid and evil things in our past. But we have also moved on from many of them. And people that castigate our past usually only get part of the story and build from there. The Confederate Flag was indeed the flag of the southern states that seceded from the Union. And part of the reason they did this was because of slavery. All that is true. But there is more than that. The southern states believed that the growing federal government was stripping away the rights of the states to run their own business. One of those things was slavery, but that was not the only thing. And if you fast forward to 2022, you find that the federal government is indeed trying to strip away the rights of the states. So remembering that losing your rights as a state is not a good thing is probably smart.

The Confederate flag is a symbol of many things. Only the weak minded stop at calling it a symbol of slavery. But in the end, it should be the right of the person to show things like this without being shamed for it. You may not like it and you might make snap decisions about the people that do it without making any effort to get to know them. But they have (or should have) every right to fly it. I’m old enough to remember the outrage of pants with the American Flag design on it. People felt that was disrespecting our nation. How ‘bout you? Do you see it as being acceptable even though many others disagreed with you?

gorillapaws's avatar

@seawulf575 “The Confederate flag is a symbol of many things. Only the weak minded stop at calling it a symbol of slavery…”

The swastika meant many things to people. Yes, to some it was a symbol of anti-semitic genocide and ethnic cleansing, but to others it was a symbol of German industriousness, self-reliance and innovation. Only the weak minded stop at calling the swastika a symbol of white power and hate… Can you spot what’s wrong with that paragraph?

”... But in the end, it should be the right of the person to show things like this without being shamed for it.”

In the USA, people have the right to be bigots, and I’m glad that we have those broad freedoms. One of the other freedoms we have in this country is the right to shame the hell out of racists fucklords…

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 So, a Mexican flag or t-shirt makes you wonder if that person wearing it wants to kill you? You feel it’s a 50/50 chance that person hates “white” Americans, hates their existence?

In addition to the past, the Proud Boys and other WS groups are currently using the confederate flag as a symbol of their hate. It’s now!

This has nothing to do with rights, it has to do with what message are you sending. Do you wear or fly a confederate flag?

Why do you think even some northerners and midwesterners and NeoNazis around the world fly and wear that flag who have no ancestral connection to the American South?

filmfann's avatar

He’s fishing for like minded neighbors.

He’s also probably driving down home values.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
rockfan's avatar

There’s a chance he’s not racist, just incredibly ignorant. There are some people who genuinely think the confederate flag is just a harmless symbol of southern culture.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Would be nice to see the flag with an asterisk at the corner along with the words, “Not racist, merely nostalgic for old southern traditions ( minus slavery ) and state’s rights
( minus slavery ).”

HP's avatar

@rockfan a rather prounced chance.

seawulf575's avatar

@gorillapaws “One of the other freedoms we have in this country is the right to shame the hell out of racists fucklords” Yep we have that right. But then again, the left is trying to take that right away as well. They brand it hate speech or some such nonsense and try making it a crime. As long as you are talking about someone on the left, that is. The Dems just started another ministry of truth and put Kamala Harris in charge of it just to accomplish this. So don’t even pretend your statement is true. If the flag was a gay pride flag and someone shamed the hell out of them for it you would be calling them intolerant for not embracing the differences. Can you spot what’s wrong with your statement?

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie “So, a Mexican flag or t-shirt makes you wonder if that person wearing it wants to kill you? You feel it’s a 50/50 chance that person hates “white” Americans, hates their existence?” not at all. You act like if I DID feel that way I would somehow be wrong. Yet you are supporting that exact same fear-ridden response to someone flying a Confederate Flag.

“This has nothing to do with rights, it has to do with what message are you sending. Do you wear or fly a confederate flag?” This has everything to do with rights. If someone wants to fly a flag for whatever they have the right to do so. The message that is being sent is that people, such as yourself, are intolerant and not willing to let others live their lives outside of your approval. Last time I checked, that was bigotry. Even asking if I fly or wear a Confederate flag shows bigotry. Trying to determine if I might be one of “them”. Need to check your ideals a little there. And for the record I do not fly or wear a Confederate flag, but I certainly recognize my right to do so if I so wish.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 You prove my point. No one sees a Mexican flag and is worried about their life. You completely misunderstood what I was “acting like.”

We (Jews, Blacks, Asians, and other minorities) see a confederate flag and feel our safety and lives are possibly threatened by the person displaying the flag. It terrorizes us. I have to wonder does that guy want to kill me.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie You proved my point. You are bigoted by the idea that someone has a differing viewpoint from you. You have said it yourself…even in this last comment: you don’t know a thing about the guy. All you see is a flag and you draw huge conclusions without anything close to facts. We have seen in this thread that some people say he might just be ignorant. He might be demonstrating some sign of imagined defiance. But none of those say he is a bad person or a threat to anyone. Yet because of YOUR bigotry, you fear him. That is the exact same attitude Dems had when they were trying to keep Black people as slaves and as second class citizens. It wasn’t about the individuals, it was the fear of the people as a whole. They drew grand conclusions about a whole race of people because of the color of their skin. You are drawing grand conclusions about anyone that displays a Confederate flag based on that sole attribute. Bigotry is often based in fear.

My suggestion if you have someone in your neighborhood that is flying a Confederate flag is to either ignore them or, the more inclusive attitude, go introduce yourself. Get to know that person. The left screams about inclusivity and discrimination, but they certainly don’t practice what they preach.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie One last point. ” No one sees a Mexican flag and is worried about their life.” That may or may not be true. It might offend someone or it might actually terrify someone. You are attributing your biases to everyone. When you start into making a society that is accepting of others even if you don’t agree with them, you can’t be picky about things that might be offensive. I personally find BLM signs and flags offensive. BLM is a Marxist organization that has sewn a lot of discord and, in my view, been responsible for a lot of destruction, destroyed lives, and even deaths. Yet I don’t go crazy because one of my neighbors puts a sign in their yard.

JLeslie's avatar

^^I’m the one who wrote above the person with the confederate flag might just be proud to be a Southerner.

You want me to go up to the confederate flag flying person and find out why he is displaying that flag when the reason might be that he wants me dead? You are so white Christian male it’s unbelievable. Actually, I would hope Christians have an ability to put themselves in another person’s place. You lack that, and all too many people do. I actually pass as white, but think what you are asking Black people to do. We are talking about walking up to strangers, not someone you know and see every day.

What if you were in a Middle Eastern country that isn’t friendly to the US and a group of men have on shirts that say Jihad or a picture of the towers with a hole from the plane hitting. Will you send your wife or daughter over with their America t-shirt and cross around their neck to talk to them?

Can I wear my Star of David and walk up to the men with swastika tattoos?

Do I trust the man following me home and catcalling when he says “I won’t hurt you, I just like watching you walk.” So many men are idiots. They think people can read their minds on their real intentions.

hat's avatar

@seawulf575: “I personally find BLM signs and flags offensive.”

Oh, I’m sure you do. You’ve done plenty to out yourself.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie Do I want you to go up to a Confederate flag flying person (or really any person displaying anything you fear) to ask them why they are doing that? Not specifically. What I WOULD want is for you to introduce yourself, get to know the guy/gal/family. They are human beings. Very few people in this world would just start beating on you because you introduced yourself. They might be anti-social and tell you to scram, but at least then you would have something to say “I don’t like that person!”. The scenario is this is a person in your neighborhood. Why live in fear of someone that might be a very nice person?

When we first went to look at this house we are living in, the neighbor came over to talk to the owner. The neighbor was a old, skinny black guy that had a thumb and a little finger on one of his hands. My step-daughter, as we were leaving, said “I don’t want to live here.” I asked her why and she said “The hitchhiker”. It was a reference to his thumb sticking out. I told her that he might be one of the nicest guys in the world and that getting creeped out because he had an accident in his life was not good. Turns out he WAS one of the nicest guys in the world. A wonderful man and a great neighbor. The point is that judging him on one simple attribute would have robbed us of a very good friend. I could have not liked him because he was old or black or only had 2 fingers on one hand. I could have justified it anyway I wanted and told myself I had great reasons. And I would have been a lesser person for it.

seawulf575's avatar

@hat Yep, I’ve outed myself for not liking Marxists. BLM has nothing to do with supporting black lives. I have stated many times I support black lives but not BLM. If BLM was all about black lives, they would have focused on the massive black-on-black crime. They would have worked to push education and family values in the black community. Instead they protest and riot when some black person gets shot by a cop. And that is ALL they protest about black lives. They are a horribly divisive organization that has the sole purpose of undoing our nasty capitalistic society.

But I have neighbors that have these signs in their yards. I don’t get bunched up about it. One of them is a friend of mine. To be honest, it has never come up since I don’t judge him solely on that sign. We talk about projects we are doing, issues in the neighborhood, things our wives are doing together…the usual stuff friends in a neighborhood would talk about.

But you have outed yourself for being bigoted by something you see. It triggers you beyond all reason. And you have outed yourself like that many times.

So let me ask: Which is the better way to get to a society that is inclusive? To get to know people for who they are or to judge them on your own narrow beliefs of who you stereotype them to be? And if it is the stereotyping, then why do you get upset when someone judges you the same way?

mazingerz88's avatar

Thanks jellies for all your responses! Much appreciated.

Demosthenes's avatar

Did anyone actually say people shouldn’t have a right to fly that flag? @seawulf575 you are engaged in a battle with a pretty big straw man. Or are you saying people don’t have a right to criticize someone for flying that flag, thus undermining your own point? No, I will not view a Confederate flag in the same way I view a Mexican flag. The two are not equivalent. One has a much higher likelihood of being associated with bigotry. False equivalences are fucking stupid and I won’t dumb myself down to that level.

jca2's avatar

Some of the twisted logic being displayed on this thread is so illogical, I really wonder what the purpose of engaging with this person is.

chefl's avatar

There is something both sides have in common. Guess what it is.

gorillapaws's avatar

@seawulf575 “Yep we have that right. But then again, the left is trying to take that right away as well. They brand it hate speech or some such nonsense and try making it a crime. As long as you are talking about someone on the left, that is. The Dems just started another ministry of truth and put Kamala Harris in charge of it just to accomplish this. So don’t even pretend your statement is true.”

I don’t know what you’re referring to. The first amendment guarantees the right of people to criticize other people. You don’t have the right to incite violence or make threats of violence to others, but you are certainly allowed to say horrible shit without being locked up. If Harris or anything else passes a law that prevents people from saying nasty shit about groups of people, that will (correctly) get struck down.

“If the flag was a gay pride flag and someone shamed the hell out of them for it you would be calling them intolerant for not embracing the differences. Can you spot what’s wrong with your statement?”

I absolutely would be calling them intolerant (and less polite language as well). I think you may have a big misconception about how the first amendment works. It protects the right of people to say horrible shit without going to jail. It doesn’t mean other people have to listen to that speech, agree with it, respect it, refrain from criticizing it or shaming the speaker, continue employing you after saying it etc. The first amendment isn’t a magic bubble that allows someone to say awful shit and then have zero repercussions in their life, it just means they can’t be arrested for it.

jca2's avatar

People have the right to fly a Confederate flag, yes. It’s just making a statement about the person flying the flag. It’s more than just southern pride, driving around in vintage pickup trucks with a case of beer listening to Allman Brothers and Lynrd Skynrd. Someone who flies that flag needs to be cognizant of the message they’re sending. That’s all.

seawulf575's avatar

@gorillapaws You would call someone shaming a gay pride flag intolerant. Yet you haven’t really once came out against people shaming others for flying a Confederate flag. So you support 1st amendment rights on one but not the other. Got it.

As for taking away rights for speech, look at Merrick Garland declaring parents Domestic Terrorists because they dared to go to a public school board meeting and voice their displeasure with the board trying to push CRT and gender norming. Punishment for speaking your opinion? And let’s not forget the effort to make the disinformation board which would allow the government to decide what is and isn’t true and to target that speech they don’t like. That brought about the appropriate outrage so they shelved that. Now they have the new panel that they haven’t given an appropriate name yet. They can’t really name it because it is doing the same thing…trying to establish “whole-of-government” approach to censor language they don’t like. Whole-of-government sounds to me like they will be depriving you of your right to speech or censoring you or branding you a hater and arresting you for hate speech.

If you can’t see the efforts to control private speech you need to pull your head out of the sand.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 I absolutely agree. The individual flying such a flag is likely a redneck. But I have known many rednecks that were still good people…not the racist or hate-filled people they get branded as.

seawulf575's avatar

@Demosthenes The entire question was couched as a straw-man question. No specific statements were given about such a person actually existing. So the entire thread is hypothetical. My initial comment was just the question of why shouldn’t someone be allowed to. There was quite a bit of hatred and vitriol with a side serving of shaming and stereotyping in most of the answers I read before I posted that one. The overall tenor of those responses said it should not be allowed to me.

I do view the Confederate Flag and the Mexican flag as the same in one respect: they can be triggers. ANYTHING these days can be a trigger. Using the wrong pronoun for God’s sake is a trigger for some people. But my point was not that the Mexican flag is bad or that the Confederate flag is good. My point was that there are an awful lot of people that stop at one thing they see and make grand, broad-brush, bigoted decisions about the people associated with the thing. That attitude is NOT inclusive. It isn’t right when it is applied to LGBTQ, it isn’t right when it is applied to Latinos or blacks, and it isn’t right when applied to someone that likes the Confederate flag. And again…that isn’t saying any of those people cannot be assholes…assholes come in all sizes, shapes, colors and genders. But to generalize to the point where you are drawing conclusions about someone because of one aspect of them is divisive…not inclusive.

gorillapaws's avatar

@seawulf575 “You would call someone shaming a gay pride flag intolerant. Yet you haven’t really once came out against people shaming others for flying a Confederate flag. So you support 1st amendment rights on one but not the other. Got it.”

Again, I think you’re misunderstanding how the first amendment works. I’m in favor of the first amendment. People have a right to fly the Confederate flag, the pride flag and to shame or otherwise make hateful statements about those flying the pride flag. Nobody should go to jail for doing any of those things. Full stop.

I also think people flying the Confederate flag deserve derision, scorn and shame. I think people saying hateful things about people flying pride flags also deserve derision, scorn and shame. Just because I acknowledge and even defend someone’s right to make abhorrent displays of speech without being arrested, doesn’t mean I’m defending the message of that speech or believe those who make such disgusting remarks should suffer no consequences. Likewise, just because I’m critical (or even derisive) of someone’s message, doesn’t mean I believe they should be arrested for saying it.

“If you can’t see the efforts to control private speech you need to pull your head out of the sand.”

If you want to provide a link to specific legislation, I’d be happy to take a look.

Demosthenes's avatar

I do judge people for flying the Confederate flag (especially around here). I do not judge them for flying the pride flag or a Mexican flag.

Again, false equivalences. And both are well within the realm of the first amendment. I am not saying it should be illegal to fly the Confederate flag, the only thing that actually would be a violation of the first amendment. The first amendment doesn’t protect you from shaming or judgment.

@gorillapaws Yes. All of that. I continue to be surprised by the number of people who don’t understand what freedom of speech is.

chefl's avatar

Using the wrong pronoun for God’s sake is a trigger for some people.”
There is no such thing as the wrong pronoun. People are not supposed to be called, and/or referred to by their pronoun but by their name. If someone forgets the name of a person then it’s the student, ....the receptionist…., the person…., the manager with the green shirt….etc.
You all agree on that, I hope, so there.

jca2's avatar

The Pride flag stands for being proud of and inclusive of all genders.

The Mexican flag stands for being proud of the country Mexico, the same way the American flag stands for being proud of the country United States of America.

The Confederate flag stands for being proud of the Confederacy. The Confederate flag is a flag that was used by the seceded Southern states, who called themselves the Confederate States of America, during the Civil War. While the Confederacy used three different flags, the flag most commonly called the Confederate flag was its battle flag. The Confederates were for secession from the Union, and were pro-slavery (hence, the secession).

hat's avatar

@seawulf575: “So let me ask: Which is the better way to get to a society that is inclusive?...”

You’re addressing the wrong person. You have me confused with a liberal. I’m not for “tolerance” or anything you think liberals are in favor of.

I am in favor of stomping out anyone who flies a Nazi or confederate flag. I don’t worry about “stereotyping” or any of that shit. If someone tells me who they are, I believe them.

seawulf575's avatar

@chefl I don’t use the pronouns they or their. Please don’t use those when I might be in reference for the conversation.

seawulf575's avatar

@hat So someone that has the attitude that they are in favor of stomping out anyone who flies a gay pride flag or a BLM sign would be just as right as you. And that makes for less inclusivity…more strife, more bigotry (which is what you are exhibiting), more hate. And you wonder why there is a problem in this country?

hat's avatar

@seawulf575: “So someone that has the attitude that they are in favor of stomping out anyone who flies a gay pride flag or a BLM sign would be just as right as you.”

Stop pretending everyone who disagrees with you is a liberal. You’re arguing against someone else (who happens to be a strawman).

That “someone with an atttitude” of stomping out someone for believing that black lives matter = the cops. I’m not looking for tolerance of black lives. This should be demanded. We should be intolerant of those who feel otherwise.

This fucking “inclusivity” bullshit you love so much would have us licking Nazi boots in Germany in the 1930s.

@seawulf575: “more strife”

The “strife” is there. Tolerating intolterance means that you’re supporting the strife and you’ve picked a side. The wrong one.

@seawulf575: “more bigotry”

If bigotry = being antiracist or stabbing a Nazi in the throat or fighting on the right side of history or holding the belief that black people are people, then “bigotry” is a good thing.

cheebdragon's avatar

You want to assault people because you are offended by an inanimate object? How noble.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
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chefl's avatar

@cheebdragon Re.“You want to assault people because you are offended by an inanimate object?” Is the emphasis on “assault” or “inanimate”? By the way, a flag with a nazi symbol, for eg., is an inanimate object.

Response moderated
chefl's avatar

@seawulf575 Please see my last post.

cheebdragon's avatar

@chefl A flag is an inanimate object, you are correct.

chefl's avatar

@cheebdragon What is the relevance? Inanimate does not necessarily mean harmless, does it?

JLeslie's avatar

Wow. That’s basically what a friend’s boyfriend said to me when I was in college and someone drew swastikas on dorm doors where a lot of Jewish students lived. He said, “the swastika is just a symbol, why are people so riled up about it?”

chefl's avatar

So, he never heard of the Nazis?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 Are you recommending a Jewish woman go knock on the door to talk to a person flying the Confederate flag? You trying to get her killed?!

Um, no, do NOT engage those people and if you do, do not go alone.

Listen I have items with that flag in my home as historical family items. Not on display. Most people recognize the offense they give and react appropriately by not using them in public.

Yes they could be nice old folks with roots down south, or they could be neo-Nazi’s who pull you in the house and beat you or worse, as an example. Either way, even I would proceed with utmost caution, and I am white and way more familiar with that crowd than most here.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^The Confederate flag had been taken down.

chefl's avatar

@mazingerz88 Isn’t a flag something individuals can /do own, and display So, What did you mean “had been taken down”?

chefl's avatar

@JLeslie I was asking you not @seawulf575‘s OP.

JLeslie's avatar

@chefl What are you asking me.

@KNOWITALL Thank you.

chefl's avatar

@JLeslie It was re. the friend’s boyfriend “the swastika is just a symbol, why are people so riled up about it?”) right under your last post I responded “So he never heard of the Nazis?”

JLeslie's avatar

@chefl Either he had no clue about the Nazis or he had been told “it’s just a symbol.” I’m not sure which. He was raised in a very fundamentalist Christian family. Maybe “it’s just a symbol” is a phrase that has often been used over history in the US and I just never realized it before. These type of things repeat through history.

chefl's avatar

@JLeslie If he is white, I wonder what he would have said about whatever the symbol against whites is.

JLeslie's avatar

Is there a symbol against white people?

chefl's avatar

I don’t know. I didn’t want to assume that there isn’t.

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