Social Question

jca2's avatar

Why do you think Harris lost to Trump?

Asked by jca2 (16868points) 1 month ago

If this question upsets you and you’re still processing your feelings about it, please feel free to scroll past it and read no further.

There have been a lot of articles in the past few days speculating why Harris lost, and a lot of discussions about it in real life and in the media, and social media.

What do you think is the reason why, or multiple reasons why, Harris lost to Trump?

Was she not the right candidate? Was the DNC to blame? Is Biden to blame for bad policies or no policies or not stepping down in time to choose a better candidate? Is it that America is short sighted and has forgotten what Trump 2016 was like? Is Trump unstoppable and nobody could beat him this time? Is it because America is tired of this and tired of that? Inflation? Migrants?

Do you have a theory or multiple theories?

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39 Answers

LifeQuestioner's avatar

Cheating by the right, Russian interference, dubious vote counting…

hat's avatar

Way too many factors. Some highlights: the fact that her administration was committing genocide, promised to not change a thing from a historically-unpopular president, “I’m speaking”, seeking Republican votes while actively alienating historic base, providing no reason to vote for her other than she’s not the other candidate, being part of a vile party that has waged war on free speech, students, and activists, telling everyone that the economy is great while people are feeling it isn’t, etc.

It’s not that Trump got drastically more votes this time. Right now, it looks like he received around the same amount (74 mil, with a few more votes yet to be counted). It just seems that all of that polling that was done that told the Dems what they needed to do/say to earn votes was correct. Right now, she received ~10 mil less votes less than Biden in 2020. Why weren’t historically-dem voters motivated to vote for her? That seems pretty obvious. And I was 100% obvious to the campaign. But again, the Dems chose to lose rather than change.

Demosthenes's avatar

Definitely not what @LifeQuestioner said. That is the result of huffing copium, and it has long term deleterious effects.

If you look at the numbers, Trump really didn’t gain many votes this time, but Kamala received millions fewer votes than Biden. Now, in general, if people feel that “things are getting worse”, they want a change of party. The pandemic is largely why Trump lost in 2020. And this time around, you have inflation creating a sense that nothing is affordable anymore, and many people wanted to return to the pre-pandemic years when things felt better. That alone is going to drive turn-out for Trump and discourage votes for Kamala.

@hat is correct that Kamala tried to appeal to moderate Republicans, a losing strategy, and did little to distance herself from the previous administration. I absolutely know people who didn’t vote for Kamala because of her intransigence on Israel (well, that includes me as well) and the fact that she effectively promised to be Biden 2.0.

Lightlyseared's avatar

Americans wont vote for a woman.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

This is easy. People can’t afford groceries, rent or transportation under the current administration. The opposing party got the swing vote and some blue-collar defectors under any shred of hope things will at least change with a new admin. There is no other reason.

seawulf575's avatar

The entire story of candidate Kamala is why she lost to Trump. She won no primary votes. They forced the guy that did have all the primary votes out of the race. She was “appointed” and not “Elected”. She had a long history of weird word salad answers to things that were well documented from her time as VP, before the appointment as the candidate for POTUS. She spent the first couple months refusing to give even scripted interviews and no press conferences. All her campaign speeches were canned. When she did give interviews, she gave the same, canned, word salad answers to the same questions…answers that didn’t answer the question. She offered no actual policies that she wanted to run on. Her stance on just about every topic changed depending on who she was talking to. All her speeches talked about how she was the candidate of joy and then she fell into hate-filled shots at Trump for the whole speech. The only platform she was running on was “Hate Trump” and “women’s rights”...a topic that was nothing but fear mongering. Her big supporters were the uber-rich and famous and that lent no credibility to her claim of being just common folk. Speaking of common folk, she chose Walz as a running mate…a guy that was almost farther left than herself, who brought no real strength to the ticket, who was a verifiable liar about his past, who had questionable ties to China, and who, when confronted with some of his various lies had the excuse “I’m a knucklehead”. When you are running for the second highest position in the land and your claim is that you are a knucklehead…I guess you really are a knucklehead. It is not a winning stance.

All in all, everything from when she was chosen to be VP until election night was a train wreck for Kamala and the Dems.

ragingloli's avatar

1. She was the last minute tag-in candidate. Sloppy seconds, so to speak.
2. She is a woman.
3. She is black.
4. She was pro-genocide and actively antagonised anit-genocide protesters.
5. A majority, predictably, of colonials are literally insane, and voted for a career criminal, rapist, fraud, insurrectionsist, openly fascist clown.

JLeslie's avatar

Multiple things:

1. I saw a pollster say that from what he can the young people who supported Harris didn’t show up to vote as much as the young people who supported Trump.

2. Biden not doing anything for three years regarding immigration and Democrats on TV and social media trying to argue it’s ok and completely denying that some bad people are getting through the border and that even though the majority are good people it is still too much for the country to absorb at once. I think maybe Democratic leadership thought it would gain them votes with the left wing of the party and Latin Americans, so if that is true, it was a bad and misinformed strategy.

3. Threats on campus towards Jewish students. No matter how much many of the protests were calm, there were too many instances of Jewish students feeling unsafe and threatened and a seemingly unequal treatment of Jewish students vs other minorities.

4. Not explaining well why prices went up, and asking the public to demonstrate that prices have leveled or even have come down.

5. People who vote for Jill Stein.

6. Transwomen in sports and trans books in schools and standards for trans psych and medical care. Democrats just would not even listen to any of it. Sure, many Republicans were believing lies of some of the reporting and are too paranoid, but in my opinion some of the information is cause for concern and needs to be looked at.

7. Not aligning more with union workers.

8. Harris sucked in interviews, and so Independents and Republicans willing to consider her didn’t hear what they needed to hear. Deer in the headlights too often.

9. Harris skipped some invitations to interviews and Trump did go to. Like an interview with the CEO of Bloomberg. Some people point to not doing a Joe Rogan interview. Not sure if it would have helped her though.

10. The party not being in touch with Latin Americans in the country. Democrats strategizing seem to make wrong assumptions about half of the Latin Americans in the country. I remember when the big hurricane happened in Puerto Rico and Democrats kept saying the PR’s moving to the mainland will all be Democrats. No they won’t be!

11. Biden not stepping out a year ago and allowing a primary.

Some people blame the Harris campaign for promoting unity and joy as a problem. That makes me sad.

Watch Alyssa trying to explain the problem and Sunny won’t listen, Sunny only wants to hear her own opinion. Sunny is like a lot of Democrats. Alyssa isn’y even always giving her own opinion, Alyssa has worked to convince people not to vote for Trump, she is trying to explain the opinions of Trump voters. Watch this start at 6:55 to 9:15. https://youtu.be/J0CdL8r2qx0?si=4gG5hJESE0wWJ3Yi

Even more valid was the next day on The View what Sarah (The blonde) says within a segment from 4:30 to 10:05 https://youtu.be/H7eMJOI0r8Q?si=PnoqxpKS7NfbrYmw

flutherother's avatar

One reason was Kamela’s focus on Trump’s character. Republicans already know Trump’s character and they vote for him anyway. Better to have ignored Trump and focussed on uniting the country and concentrating on jobs and the economy.

Many voters misunderstood the world they live in due to poor reporting by traditional media and the stories put out by social media and by Trump himself. Illegal migrants aren’t the huge problem they were made out to be and they don’t eat cats and dogs. Climate change is also very real despite Trump calling it a hoax.

There was also confusion among voters as to what they were voting for. Many believed that a vote for Trump was a vote for a freer society unhindered by bureaucracy and red tape. In fact, it is the opposite and a vote for Trump is a vote for cronyism and political appointees.

The Democrats ongoing failure to speak out and help ease the abhorrent conditions in Gaza meant that some people cast their vote anywhere else in protest.

The idea that the United States is somehow immune from fascism meant people cast their votes lightly and without due regard to the potential consequences.

Zaku's avatar

It’s never just one thing, but:

Corporate media has been doing an even worse job than it did before 2016, but it’s been getting worse and worse at failing to call out lies, nonsense, crimes, bullshit, treason, and so on. And then there’s FOX News and OAN, which have been essentially non-stop MAGA propaganda engines. Also what Elon did to Twitter->X, not to mention Trump’s own Truth Social.

Joining them in creating a non-stop pro-MAGA pro-Trump world of disinformation, have been most evangelical Christian ministers.

And the amazing amount of disinformation coming from Russian and Chinese agents and bot farms on social media, pretending to be Americans, repeating endless lies and propaganda.

There has been almost zero mainstream news media that hasn’t at least whitewashed Trump, so instead of the baseline truth being told that he’s clearly a narcissist misogynist racist man-child conman criminal non-stop-lying nonsense-spewing bullshitter who has gotten worse and worse, becoming responsible for countless additional American dead during the pandemic, trying to overturn the 2020 election with lies, conspiracies, and violence, a convicted criminal, established rapist, and aspiring (and on track to be) fascist dictator threatening violence against the media, political opponents, non-white straight people, who also sold top secret military documents and is clearly in the pocket of Putin, and who intends to abandon NATO let alone Ukraine, not to mention dissolve as much as he can of all environmental protections, Social Security, Department of Education, the Affordable Care Act, abortion rights, and of course make himself the winner of all future elections, able to do any crimes, and fill the entire government and military with his loyal agents.

All of the above should have been the baseline truth reported consistently. Instead, quite the reverse has been true.

I’d say that’s probably the main factor.

Of course, it also takes enough people who want to hear, and who will believe, that it’s possible Trump really is someone who ought to be voted for. And enough people who don’t hear enough of the above to get that it’s vital that he not be re-elected.

Other factors probably include racist and sexism.

Other factors include the OTHER stories that weren’t adequately explained to enough people, about the actual sources of recent inflation, for example.

JLeslie's avatar

Also, like Trump said 20 years ago, the Republicans have the campaigning thing down.

There is a shit ton of money thrown behind the Republicans and they know how to twist the truth and their followers buy it. I’m convinced that’s why Trump ran as a Republican.

Blackberry's avatar

So many factors, but people were intentionally bombarded with inflammatory, opinion-based propaganda from America and also Russia.

I was ignored at a place of business (dry cleaner) while the lady ranted about obama….sending a clear message she’s not going to service a customer because I’m probably a Democrat or something? I had to leave after sitting there patiently and was 100% I was being ignored.

Either way, some are mentally ill and lead poisoned and easily led.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

It is one thing. It IS the economy.

Zaku's avatar

@Blackwater_Park No it is definitely not, because the economy has been recovering well under Biden, and Trump’s plans are idiotic and include tariffs which would add huge amounts to the costs of goods and services.

And the reasons why some people might think otherwise, are from the multiple sources of disinformation about that.

Caravanfan's avatar

I agree mostly with @seawulf575 and to some extent with @hat although I honestly don’t think the Israeli/Palestinian conflict played a lot into this election. Harris’ problem is that she wasn’t even well liked in her own state, let alone the USA. But @seawulf575 said it when we never knew what she was FOR (except abortion rights, which I can get behind), but we all know she was just running on being not Trump. That wasn’t good enough. Everybody says “the economy” but the economy is much better now than it was 4 years ago. So the economy really didn’t matter.

Basically, the US populice wants a populist, be it right or left. They are tired of establishment politicians. (I, for one, am a pretty conservative establishment anti-populist and tend to vote against them whether they are right or left but I am in the minority apparently)

Demosthenes's avatar

Guys, that you think the economy doing well on paper means the economy was not a factor is kinda the hallmark of being out of touch. If you actually ask people why they voted the way they did, they will absolutely cite consumer prices being too high as a reason (just saw an interview with Latino Trump voters and that was mentioned by almost everyone they talked to). Things got more expensive under Biden. Inflation soared, people felt like things were getting worse. You can correctly point out that Biden alone didn’t cause that, you can say the stock market is doing well, but that doesn’t matter to the average person who saw their dollars not go as far as they did before the pandemic. And they blame it, unfairly or not, on Biden and the Democrats and they want a change. Of course there are myriad other reasons a person might vote for Trump. But saying the economy didn’t matter is absurd.

MrGrimm888's avatar

The country is VERY ill…

seawulf575's avatar

@Demosthenes got it as far as the economy goes. Prices skyrocketed under Biden/Harris. They really haven’t gone back down. They are just going up more slowly. People are still feeling the pain.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@Zaku No it has not. People already established with money in investments and existing assets have done well. The economy “recovered” for them. People on the lower end of the economic scale and younger Americans are in trouble. They can’t afford anything. Young families are being eaten alive by inflation and stagnant wages. This is where the extra red swing vote came from that ultimately got Trump elected. There is no singular other reason.

JLeslie's avatar

Oh right, the economy and inflation. Yeah, of course that mattered. People were convinced Biden caused prices to go up, they were told that over and over again, and Harris didn’t do much to counter it.

Mark my words in February when prices are still the same as today at the supermarket, Republicans will be saying grocery items are cheaper. Gas will be $2.89 around the corner from me and Republicans here will be saying see how much cheaper gas is, it was $4.00 under Biden. By the way gas was $2.89 a week ago, but they won’t remember.

@Caravanfan I think Gaza affected NY, MI, FL, and maybe CA. It only matters in MI because it is a true swing state, and matters in the popular vote, but still a relatively small number. The media stopped talking about Gaza enough before the election that it became less important to most people.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@JLeslie Of course they will. But, it’s not something you can lie about when it’s plain to see for people struggling. If you’re not struggling the media can certainly pull the wool over your eyes. They have apparently been doing a decent job considering how many here are completely oblivious. Come the next election cycle, if things are not better, the pendulum will swing blue. If things are better, then the other issues flutherites are mentioning above begin to matter. It should have been a blue wave with the abortion rights issue. The economy completely eclipsed it. It matters that much because you’re getting into the lower levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It is that simple to understand.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie You keep talking like Trump damaged the economy and not Biden. You bring up gas prices. Here is a good graph that shows how things really were. When Biden was elected, prices started creeping up. When he was sworn into office, the average price of gasoline was about $2.37/gallon. Within 3 months it was up to $2.85/gallon. And the part that makes this entirely on Biden is that you can track it back to him undoing all the things Trump did. He stopped a lot of domestic production. He stopped the XL pipeline. He put us back at the mercy of foreign oil. When that about killed us he drained our strategic reserves to try bringing prices down for the 2022 elections so that the Dems might have a chance. Prices got up to just over $5/gal. Yes, they’ve slowly come back down, that is true and I will always stick with the truth. But what did Biden do to bring the prices back down? Nothing. It was the market. People stopped driving if they didn’t have to. As a result the oil companies weren’t selling as much fuel and they had to lower prices again to get it back into where people would be willing to pay.

jca2's avatar

Maureen Dowd wrote an interesting opinion column in the NY Times. As you may know, the NY Times is considered a liberal paper but was united (its Editorial Board was) in saying they felt Biden should step down. Here’s her piece:

Some Democrats are finally waking up and realizing that woke is broke.

Donald Trump won a majority of white women and remarkable numbers of Black and Latino voters and young men.

Democratic insiders thought people would vote for Kamala Harris, even if they didn’t like her, to get rid of Trump. But more people ended up voting for Trump, even though many didn’t like him, because they liked the Democratic Party less.

I have often talked about how my dad stayed up all night on the night Harry Truman was elected because he was so excited. And my brother stayed up all night the first time Trump was elected because he was so excited. And I felt that Democrats would never recover that kind of excitement until they could figure out why they had turned off so many working-class voters over the decades, and why they had developed such disdain toward their once loyal base.

Democratic candidates have often been avatars of elitism — Michael Dukakis, Al Gore, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton and second-term Barack Obama. The party embraced a worldview of hyper-political correctness, condescension and cancellation, and it supported diversity statements for job applicants and faculty lounge terminology like “Latinx,” and “BIPOC” (Black, Indigenous, People of Color).

This alienated half the country, or more. And the chaos and antisemitism at many college campuses certainly didn’t help.

“When the woke police come at you,” Rahm Emanuel told me, “you don’t even get your Miranda rights read to you.”

There were a lot of Democrats “barking,” people who “don’t represent anybody,” he said, and “the leadership of the party was intimidated.”

Donald Trump played to the irritation of many Americans disgusted at being regarded as insensitive for talking the way they’d always talked. At rallies, he referred to women as “beautiful” and then pretended to admonish himself, saying he’d get in trouble for using that word. He’d also call women “darling” and joke that he had to be careful because his political career could be at risk.

One thing that makes Democrats great is that they unabashedly support groups that have suffered from inequality. But they have to begin avoiding extreme policies that alienate many Americans who would otherwise be drawn to the party.

Democrats learned the hard way in this election that mothers care both about abortion rights and having their daughters compete fairly and safely on the playing field.

A revealing chart that ran in The Financial Times showed that white progressives hold views far to the left of the minorities they champion. White progressives think at higher rates than Hispanic and Black Americans that “racism is built into our society.” Many more Black and Hispanic Americans surveyed, compared with white progressives, responded that “America is the greatest country in the world.”

Gobsmacked Democrats have reacted to the wipeout in different ways. Some think Kamala did not court the left enough, touting trans rights and repudiating Israel.

Other Democrats feel the opposite, calling on the party to reimagine itself.

Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, a vulnerable Democrat in a red congressional district in Washington, narrowly held her seat. The 36-year-old mother of a toddler and owner of an auto shop told The Times’s Annie Karni that Democratic condescension has to go. “There’s not one weird trick that’s going to fix the Democratic Party,” she said. “It is going to take parents of young kids, people in rural communities, people in the trades running for office and being taken seriously.”

Representative Seth Moulton, a Massachusetts Democrat, said the party needs rebranding. “Democrats spend way too much time trying not to offend anyone,” he said. “I have two little girls. I don’t want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete, but as a Democrat I’m supposed to be afraid to say that.”

On CNN, the Democratic strategist Julie Roginsky said that Democrats did not know how to talk to normal Americans.

Addressing Latinos as “Latinx” to be politically correct “makes them think that we don’t even live on the same planet as they do,” she said. “When we are too afraid to say that ‘Hey, college kids, if you’re trashing a campus of Columbia University because you aren’t happy about some sort of policy and you’re taking over a university and you’re trashing it and preventing other students from learning, that that is unacceptable.’ But we’re so worried about alienating one or another cohort in our coalition that we don’t know what to say.”

Kamala, a Democratic lawmaker told me, made the “colossal mistake” of running a billion-dollar campaign with celebrities like Beyoncé when many of the struggling working-class voters she wanted couldn’t even afford a ticket to a Beyoncé concert, much less a down payment on a home.

“I don’t think the average person said, ‘Kamala Harris gets what I’m going through,’” this Democrat said.

Kamala, who sprinted to the left in her 2020 Democratic primary campaign, tried to move toward the center for this election, making sure to say she’d shoot an intruder with her Glock. But it sounded tinny.

The Trump campaign’s most successful ad showed Kamala favoring tax-funded gender surgery for prisoners. Bill Clinton warned in vain that she should rebut it.

James Carville gave Kamala credit for not leaning into her gender and ethnicity. But he said the party had become enamored of “identitarianism” — a word he uses because he won’t say “woke” — radiating the repellent idea that “identity is more important than humanity.”

“We could never wash off the stench of it,” he said, calling “defund the police” “the three stupidest words in the English language.”

“It’s like when you get smoke on your clothes and you have to wash them again and again. Now people are running away from it like the devil runs away from holy water.”

jca2's avatar

I think Maureen Dowd (above) makes some good points, and it’s the way I feel with some things, for example, when she says “Representative Seth Moulton, a Massachusetts Democrat, said the party needs rebranding. “Democrats spend way too much time trying not to offend anyone,” he said. “I have two little girls. I don’t want them getting run over on a playing field by a male or formerly male athlete, but as a Democrat I’m supposed to be afraid to say that.”

In addition, I think that since Biden was so unpopular, yet Harris had to say, when there was talk about Biden stepping down right after the debate, she had to say she supported him and he was fine, and throughout her three months of campaigning, she had to say she would do things differently, yet she never elaborated, but yet someone (perhaps a good reporter who wasn’t afraid to piss her off) could have said “if you would do things differently now, why didn’t you say that in the last four years of being VP?” It was difficult for her to distance herself from Biden, and at the end, Biden was unpopular and many felt they were sold a bill of goods after seeing him at the debate, and yet hearing those in his inner circle insisting “he’s as strong as ever” and “he’s sharp as a tack.”

I’m one who feels the migrant issue is a big disaster. Many Democratic friends agree with me. NYC is a mess now, because of crime, much of it caused by migrants, much of it due to defunding the police and “cashless bail” which was a proposal pushed by a Democratic Senator. There are children being recruited to Venezuelan gangs in NYC now. The migrants received and are still receiving hotel stays, restaurant food because they don’t like the food that was offered to them by the shelters, cash cards and other benefits. This pisses a lot of people off and I think it is part of what hurt the Harris campaign. For people that don’t live near or in a sanctuary city, they have no clue about the effect of a mass migration of people to a city.

Another thing the Republicans did well was in the campaign, they would say “are you better off now than you were four years ago? If not, you need to vote Republican.” Many people are not better off now than they were four years ago. Whether or not it’s the President’s fault, or is it due to the pandemic, or world trade, or whatever, many people are fed up with paying high prices and high rents and all that.

Just my opinion about the things that hurt Harris.

Demosthenes's avatar

@jca2 Eh, I think that article is full of a lot of BS. It’s mostly just more “Democrats need to move to the right” posturing, which is exactly what Kamala did in courting Republicans like the Cheneys, and it failed. These commentators always conclude that being more centrist and moderate is the answer, but that’s what Democrats always do during the campaign, and it hasn’t worked. Throwing trans people and the pro-Palestinian movement under the bus isn’t the answer. The latter might’ve actually cost Kamala in Michigan. Being “Republican lite” is not how the Democrats provide a workable alternative. Why would you want “Republican lite” when you can just have the real thing?

jca2's avatar

@Demosthenes there are many theories about why Harris lost. Many about what made her an unattractive candidate, and what made Trump an attractive candidate. When I look at media online and on TV, there are so many theories.

hat's avatar

Dems, which are a radical right-wing party by any standard, and have consistently shifted right, are now told by voices of corporate America that they need to shift even more right. Don’t bother creating an alternative to Republicans – just become more Republican than them and they will suddenly start winning. It’s Coke vs Pepsi, when the country needs some fucking nutrition.

Predictable, really. And “antisemitism at many college campuses certainly didn’t help”. Fuck off NYT – there was no antisemitism other than your compliance in relabeling divestment Jews as antisemitic. The NYT and other Zionist propaganda has really reached the level of near holocaust-denial at this point.

seawulf575's avatar

@Demosthenes The article also said that Democrats are out of touch with real people. They don’t fully understand, or won’t speak up about, issues the average person has. If you believe that getting in touch with real people and being real people yourself is “moving to the right”, you might want to ask yourself what you are gaining by going the other way. Who are you really trying to represent if it isn’t the people?

Demosthenes's avatar

Democrats are out of touch, especially when it comes to every economic woes.

But moving right is not the only way to get in touch. However, it’s the only way corporate media approves of and is likely the only way the Democratic party will ever attempt. (And lo and behold, they do attempt it, and it’s almost never a success).

hat's avatar

@seawulf575: “If you believe that getting in touch with real people and being real people yourself is “moving to the right”, you might want to ask yourself what you are gaining by going the other way.”

The Republicans and Democrats are the same group who present as US version of “right” and “left”, despite being objectively radically-right. Neither flavor addresses the needs of people, because they’re entirely dedicated to – and serve – capitalism and the exploitation of workers, the environment, and most humans on the planet. “Moving to the right” is specifically about campaigns, campaign rhetoric, corporate and billionaire framing of reality, etc.

The Democratic is vile and anti-humanity – but don’t assume that means that the same entity (Republicans) are off the hook. These are literally the same people/forces with the same politics. The Democratic party exists to act as a firewall that protects and enforces the existence of the Republican party, which is an explicit anti-worker, anti “real people” in every possible way.

The “right” by definition is anti-“the people” because it is pro-owner class and anti-worker. The propaganda system has done its job if you can even insinuate that anti-worker economic systems and policies have anything to benefit “the people”.

SnipSnip's avatar

There was no compelling reason to vote for her unless you are a mindless follower. Seems there are many of those among us.

Zaku's avatar

So much nonsense. Too much.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 I was talking about actual prices today, even six months ago, and in three months, prices that when EXACTLY THE SAME Republicans will think they are cheaper under Trump. They will focus today on eggs being $6.00 a few years ago for two months and not on so many items that are reasonably priced now and over the last year. Oh, and also, eggs are no longer $6.00, but anyway, when Trump is president the will see the same reasonable prices but focus on that.

I have been buying food much cheaper the last year and especially the last few months. Gas has been under $3 a lot.

Gas during the first two years of covid doesn’t count. We could always close down the country again and lower gas prices. We started opening up travel and people feeling much safer, and workplaces expecting people back at work, a few months into Biden’s presidency.

Manufacturing under Trump and Biden https://www.bluegreenalliance.org/resources/then-and-now-u-s-manufacturing-under-the-trump-and-biden-harris-administrations/

Jeruba's avatar

Trump represents money to a lot of people, especially working class and immigrants. People want prosperity, and he looks like a prosperity champion, no matter how contemptuously he speaks of people who don’t have it. And Harris talked way too much about him and not enough about her own ideas and plans. But first of all, Joe Biden (whom I used to really like) stood in the way of a proper nomination process instead of keeping his promise to serve one transitional term.

JLeslie's avatar

I think there are a lot of people in the country who are clearly not Republicans, they want the direction of the country to continue to move towards helping grow the middle class, helping people out of poverty, safety in health care, accessible healthcare, safe neighborhoods, equal opportunity, equal and quality public education for all children, reasonable tuition prices, decent minimum wage, separation of church and state, civil rights equality, and this is how I think of the Democratic Party, so of course I voted for Harris.

If that sounds too right wing to people who want more progress, I think part of the problem is maybe not being satisfied with at least keeping the country going in the right direction. Politics is about moving the country in the right direction in my opinion.

I agree there is too much corporate money in politics and it certainly influences policy, and I think it’s horrible.

As far as @jca’s article, I completely agree with:

”When the woke police come at you,” Rahm Emanuel told me, “you don’t even get your Miranda rights read to you.”

And also, a revealing chart that ran in The Financial Times showed that white progressives hold views far to the left of the minorities they champion. White progressives think at higher rates than Hispanic and Black Americans that “racism is built into our society.” Many more Black and Hispanic Americans surveyed, compared with white progressives, responded that “America is the greatest country in the world.”

I have said very similar to the above quotes many times on fluther and elsewhere. It isn’t enough to move me away from the Democratic Party, because again, the basic values of the party have always been mine, but I do feel similarly to some people who have peeled away and voted for Trump on some points and when I have tried to explain that POV to Democrats I am often attacked.

Jeruba's avatar

@JLeslie,

> Politics is about moving the country in the right direction in my opinion.

In my view, politics—all politics—is about who decides how to use the resources. You can have politics even when there’s only two people; most politics have nothing to do with countries. I see this description working at all levels.

JLeslie's avatar

@Jeruba Can you expand on what you mean. Maybe with an example.

Maybe I am not wording what I meant well.

People get frustrated when presidential candidates don’t perfectly fulfill promises or the desires of coalitions within a political party. Like Don’t Ask Don’t Tell in the military. I was frustrated with it, it fell short of why I believe to be right, I saw it as a civil rights issue. Clinton said later he didn’t realize the hate on the other side so he had to compromise. If Bush had been President instead of Clinton even that one step in the right direction would not have happened. That’s what I mean by direction.

If Hillary Clinton had been president instead of Trump, we would still have Roe in force. Another example of direction. Choice has always been a very high priority for me. Side note: notice that this election we/they stopped using the word choice and have been using the word abortion.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@JLeslie Without writing a wall of text, we are in complete agreement.

Pandora's avatar

Short answer is that human beings suck. When they are miserable they want others to feel their misery. The nation is filled with stupid spoiled children who wants government to work like a magic wand and either instantly fix their problem or send make others more miserable than themselves.

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