If you hate Trump and your mom thinks he’s great and voted for him what would you do?

The smart thing would be to honor their mother. Wear earplugs if they really think it’s necessary, but they should honor their mother.

I don’t advise cutting herself off from her mom. I have 2 brothers still alive out of 3. One brother is for trump, watches Fox News like it’s a religion and voted for him.
The other brother hates trump with a passion. And I think everyone here knows where I stand. We somehow make it work without hating each other. Life is too precious for me to end my relationship with my brother over trump. I won’t give trump that power.
However, if the conversation goes on too long in favor of trump, or even the hating of trump, I cut it off. I just say “enough politics, Change of subject now.”

Nothing. I’d just avoid discussing it.

I think it’s total lunacy when people talk about cutting off friends and family over who they voted for. People advising over cutting off an 80-something year old mother, when otherwise the relationship is fine? To me, it’s nuts.

In my family, we have Republicans and we have Democrats and for the most part, when the two sides are together, we don’t discuss politics and it’s fine. Once, one of the Dem relatives said something to one of the Rep relatives, and the Rep relative had a great response, which was “I respect your politics so please respect mine” and the conversation moved on to something else.

I have a friend across the street. We have never discussed politics but I know she voted for Trump.
After the election….apparently she cut me off! Haven’t heard from her since. No disagreements nothing.

@jca2 It’s insanity to me too. One woman who I know for years said it’s ok to cut off Nazi friends so why not family. She reminded the OP that her mom probably taught her people need to live with the consequences of their actions.

One woman on the thread said she was having trouble with her mom too, but she finally convinced her mother to vote for Harris. Is that like moms who are sure their daughters will come to them when they have sex the first time?

It’s interesting. My mom (may she rest in peace) hated Trump back in the 2016 election and throughout his first term. We had quite an argument at the time. But just like on here, she wasn’t hearing what I was saying. The argument ended up with me telling her that the media was making up all sorts of stuff about Trump and she was saying he was a horrible person because the media told her so. It never really did get resolved.

But the situation described sort of makes me think about it. It sounds like all the mother did was vote for Trump and the daughter is the one attacking mom…calling her a racist and trying to shame mom by saying it’s a betrayal to vote for Trump. Think about what is being said: The daughter is trying to denigrate mom for nothing more than voting for Trump. It doesn’t sound like the mom is hooting and cheering because Trump was elected, it sounds like she probably told daughter that she voted, likely when she voted because the daughter asked. That is speculation, but given the reaction we are hearing of, it sounds reasonable. And when Trump won, the daughter is melting down and doing what the “tolerant and inclusive” left always does…she is name-calling and shaming her own mom because she disagrees with how mom voted.

Apparently the daughter doesn’t want democracy either…she only wants people to vote the way she wants, not how they want.

If it was me advising her, I’d suggest she step back, take a few deep breaths and stop being so radical. Talk to mom, don’t denigrate her. Maybe ask why she voted for Trump and actually take the time to listen to and digest what mom tells her.

The only people I know cutting off family and friends are whacked democrats. Vote for who you want to and remember you owe no one an explanation about who you vote for and why.

I see nothing wrong with cutting friends off who voted for a rapist, and I have done this. It’s not a difference of opinion, it’s a difference of morals. If they had voted for a different republican I would have been fine. Trump is completely different. This isn’t lunacy on my part, at all.

Luckily I don’t have family members who voted for Trump so I’d rather not answer a hypothetical question.

And maybe her mom is racist, and vocally approves of racist and misogynist and elitist programs that Trump proposes and endorses, and is on board with hurting, with deliberate intent, persons he deems to be “lesser”.

And maybe this woman really loves her mother in a way that is not at all based on character or personality but solely on the whole cultural thing that you have to, no matter what. If she is grateful to her mother for “giving her life”, and no other reason is mentioned, that’s a really slim basis for affection.

This smacks to me of a woman who was raised with emotional abuse, subtle and covert, and in her middle years is able to find a concrete thing that pretty well represents a lot of what bothers her about her mother. It’s not just politics, it’s indicative of a mindset.

I hope she has a good therapist who doesn’t automatically subscribe to the “sainted maternal” paradigm.

Personally, I would recommend therapy, and stepping back until, with help, she can realize what she, personally, wants to do about this.

^Said much better! It’s the mindset of supporting such a vile, disgusting man.

A mom of one of my son’s childhood friends told me to not throw stones at Trump because Kamala slept her way to the top. How dare she compare consensual sex to rape. This mom repeated ridiculous things about Kamala, saying she couldn’t speak coherently. For real? She obviously only listened to Fox sound bites. I have no place in my life for this type of ignorance. I told this woman good riddance.

^The man spent the majority of his campaign money attacking the transgender community and Trumpers fell for the lies and hate. I’m the delusional one? Sorry, I don’t like rape apologists. I don’t like people who attack the most vulnerable among us. This does not make me delusional. I didn’t fall for the lies about LEGAL immigrants eating pets. If you voted for Trump I question your morals and intelligence. Thank god none of my family and true friends are that delusional.

FYI, I voted for McCain. I don’t hate Republicans, I hate Trump and MAGA.

I know plenty of people who voted for Trump and that hasn’t affected my relationships with them one iota.

I have no idea how much the mom talks about Trump. No idea if the woman really is a racist or not, the poster did not give examples of why she felt her mom was racist. When I suggested don’t talk politics, she didn’t come back and say my mom just won’t shut up about it. She didn’t say she spent her whole life tolerating her mom’s racist views, she said her mom gave her life and raised her.

I thought about asking her more, but that group would probably block me, they can be very belligerent when people question too much or bring in information they don’t want to hear. I like the group for Democratic information around town, news items, and a place to ask political questions for local things.

The person posting would not block me, I mean the admins on the group. Too much questioning or pointing out something against the common Democratic viewpoint and they mark you as an unfriendly.

^There’s no reasoning with anyone who tries to sane wash Trump or MAGA. Some of us need a place to retreat from that. I don’t blame the admins for keeping their space safe. It’s their group.

@jonsblond Their group, they can do whatever they want. Their goal seems to be to not have any conflict and I guess in their view have a safe place for Democrats who are afraid and upset to be able to vent and get support.

And maybe they feel the members that post are saying as much as they want to say. Excessive questioning about details can make the asker uncomfortable, and depending on the tone, they could feel bullied.

@canidmajor Agreed. Since this is a member telling a personal stressful situation, too many questions might be unwelcome for understandable reasons.

Although, I will note that this particular facebook group is intolerant in general If someone posts an article or meme about something terrible Trump or the Republicans are doing and someone dare say, “that is not exactly accurate,” or, “they are not telling the entire story,” That group doesn’t take kindly to it. They don’t want more facts or differing opinions, which is ironic in a way. Everyone in there is a Democrat unless they are a troll or a bot, so the intention is not to make Trump look good. Anyway, not my group, they can run it how they want.

Well then, @JLeslie, I would suggest leaving the group if you don’t like it.

@canidmajor I didn’t say that. I actually wrote why I want to be in it.

@jonsblond Thank you for making my point.

“The man spent the majority of his campaign money attacking the transgender community ” All I heard him really say about the transgender community is that he didn’t want biological men in women’s bathrooms nor in the women’s locker rooms nor competing against biological women. That isn’t against the trans community, that is for the women. I’m sorry if you can’t accept that biological males are different from biological females in many ways and I’m sorry if you are in denial that men have taken advantage of the bathroom fiasco to rape women.

” Trumpers fell for the lies and hate” No, Trumpers didn’t fall for the lies and hate. That was pouring out of the Dems and their media. It was so bad that there were 3 assassination attempts against Trump. That was driven by the lies and hate of the Dems and media.

” Sorry, I don’t like rape apologists” Nor do I. Unfortunately you are referring to Trump and Trump was never convicted nor even tried for Rape. You are echoing the lies of the media, generated because of Trump hatred.

” I didn’t fall for the lies about LEGAL immigrants eating pets.” That is an interesting one. The town manager of Springfield OH said this wasn’t true and that there were no documented cases of it. But there was a 911 call from a citizen reporting that a group of men that looked like Haitian migrants were killing and carrying away geese from the city park pond. So in a way, you just fall for propaganda from the left.

” If you voted for Trump I question your morals and intelligence.” So you question 50% of voting people in the 2024 election. Huh. Arrogance?

All in all, you perfectly repeated all the rhetoric of the left. And please not that none of it was inclusive nor tolerant.

Explain it to her. Fortunately, I don’t have to do that, because she knows all about it.

Wishing there was a yawn emoji I could share right now.

Well…I became an atheist in 2007. I never NEVER would have told my Mom. Never.

@seawulf575 My yawn was for you. I glanced at your response, read the typical MAGA response keywords, then yawned. You are wasting your time with such a lengthy response to me. It’s full of tired excuses I will not pay attention to.

I guess it’s a personal decision.
I personally, have friends and some family who are Trumpers.
I am sad, for them.
I am not angry with my Trump loving fellow Americans.
I pity them…
Just like any other loved one, who needs help, as we all do from time to time.

Trumpers often display a cult-like psyche. In their brainwashed condition, they are very fragile.
Clearly they were vulnerable/weak, and fell for all of the lies, and likely enjoyed the feeling of belonging that comes with being brought into a cult.

About the only good thing about Trump winning, is that his victims did not further harm themselves by attempting to start a Civil War.

The poor things, are scared and weak minded.
We should to be nice to them, as they are victims.
Very disappointing victims, but victims nonetheless.

We are better than them. We will not hurt them, or scorn them too harshly. They fall apart, VERY quickly in any discussion about Trump. Their brains can’t handle truth injections. When they are clearly proven idiotic, they become violent and in that state, they are capable of anything.

I say. Just give it time.
If they REALLY cared about the things they voted for, they will have no choice but to watch Trump waste 4 more years of their lives. Oh, and his tariffs are alledgedly going to cost the average US household $2,600/year.
So Trumpers (and the rest of us,) will have personally paid Trump over $10k, just regarding that failure.
Perhaps Trump can keep convincing them, that his pissing in their pockets is rain.
But. They WILL feel the ramifications of Trump’s agenda, just like the rest of us.

It’s very possible Trump will actually bankrupt the US.
Bankruptcy, being Trump’s main “genius deal making” tool…

Eventually, they will be forced to face facts. Even though they may never admit it.

If you cut someone out of your life, you definitely won’t be able to salvage anything.

It’s important that we understand that when we push Trumpers away, they run to each other. Then they console themselves by talking themselves into believing the lies again.
If we push them away, they will be damaged further.

^There’s no reasoning with them. They will learn the hard way. My nearly 90 year old father who was a Republican in his early years and is now a Bernie progressive spoke truth after the election results. His words: Give an egotist enough rope and eventually he’ll hang himself.

@jonsblond That’s okay. It shows the difference between you and I. I take the time to listen to what you have to say and think about it. You are too afraid to do the same with me.

She’s not “afraid” Wulfie. It’s all regergitatated BS.

@Dutchess_III Probably, but it keeps getting regurgitated because you folks on the left don’t want to even consider it so you ignore it.

Here’s a thought: if you on the left really wanted to heal divides in this country and you really aren’t the party of hate, you’d be willing to have open and honest discussions on even tough topics. I put forth my views and you all melt down. I take your views and address them as I see it and you all melt down. Love, inclusivity and tolerance? Not on the left.

No, @seawulf575, we have discussions with people who don’t categorize us all as crazy and delusional. Why should we talk to you when you call us “crazy dems” on so many threads, and “delusional” on this one?

Really, why would we want to talk to you when you do that?

@canidmajor Oh I don’t know….I have conversations when you all call me a Nazi, imply I’m ignorant, say I have no morals, say I hate Democracy, accuse me of loving a rapist, being an egoist and all sorts of other things. Look at this thread as a perfect example. And what did I do? I dared to question the assumptions being made by a jelly. In other words, I brought my side of the conversation. As soon as I did that, I could hear heads popping all over this site. Yeah, when you can’t hold a discussion that includes a viewpoint you don’t agree with, you are crazy and delusional. Look at the original question…it is addressing this exact thing. Someone voted for Trump and the OP is worried they might show up at a family function. OOOHHHhhhh….the drama! So they reach out to their Facebook page where they are likely to get views similar to their own to justify how they can avoid talking to someone who differs. Why is it so fearful for you to hear a different opinion?

Tough what if scenario to contemplate on. Would be heartbreaking if my own Mom hated and wanted cruelty inflicted on undocumenteds in this country like Trump and those angry voters of him. Just my luck that my Mom wasn’t that kind of deplorable and pitiful person.

@seawulf575 Reread the first sentence of my previous post, this time with comprehension.

I was hoping that the personal attacks and name calling would die down after the election. Obviously that didn’t happen when this question is about whether to disown your mother because she voted the wrong way.

It is not productive to argue with emotion. No one will listen except those that already share your feelings. Unfortunately this has become a place to vent. If you believe your own mother should not have a voice, by all means ban her from the family but I can’t understand why you would want to publish that attitude.

I was thinking about this, if the converse were the case. If my daughter (who is not yet of voting age but it’s hypothetical) were to vote for Trump or any candidate that I disagreed with, would I disown her? Would I say she were not welcome in my house? No. Would I say I never want to see her again? To me, it’s lunacy. This is just my opinion and I understand it’s not the opinion of many on this site and many in this country.

I wonder if I asked this Q about a mom who voted for Harris and the daughter was a Trumper and the daughter was thinking about cutting off from her mom if everyone would answer similarly.

Defensiveness is my take away from Republicans. They Fd up but don’t want to admit it yet.
When it becomes obvious they’ll bury themselves in a well of silence.

@Dutchess_III People calling them stupid does not help them have room to change their mind, it just makes it more likely they will be resistant to admit they were wrong. It is actually the same for Democrats who are screaming at the top of their lungs with warnings about Trump, if he winds up not so terrible this time around, those Democrats will have a hard time to admit they were wrong. They will focus only on the things they vehemently disagree with. I would argue Americans being civil to each other is the best way to get a united front when it might be desperately needed.

@Jaxk That summed it up perfectly.

Same philosophical question could have been asked in 1930 Germany.
There is not “two sides” to this.
People who support Trump are criminally evil, or criminally stupid.
He tried to overthrow the 2020 Election. He’s the most Un-American president this nation ever had.
Does this mean we should abandon family members who support Trump? I don’t know.
But flipping the roles around is not a valid mental exercise. Democrats didn’t try to overthrow our country.
And I’m not coming at this “as a Democrat”.
People who approach things from a viewpoint of loyalty to their political party are not good people. I’d never show loyalty to Democrats or Republicans.
But what Trump did to the USA is pure 100% evil. And the people who who support him are wallowing in, and enjoying that evil. All for their desires to dominate others… or their pure stupidity in not knowing what Trump did.

^^Thanks for calling it what it is. Evil. And also true, they’re either criminally evil or criminally stupid. There is no third category I can think of.

I would never cut anyone out of my life over politics, especially family. I care to a degree, of course, but your vote is your decision.
My mother was great but we argued often about LGBTQ+ issues often. It never changed my love for her and she kept her opinions to herself without treating anyone poorly.

@seawulf575 The ONLY thing I’m afraid of is more trans people dying because of the hate they receive from MAGA republicans. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/15KS9mFdAV/?mibextid=UalRPS

@jonsblond Have you talked in depth to any MAGA Republicans about it to try to find a compromise?
Many people I know have not and will not, but I see no other way to resolve some of the issues.
But I do know that some of us do care and want to find that middle ground. How do you feel about gender neutral bathrooms for instance?

@KNOWITALL , you cannot find middle ground with Trumpers. There’s a reason for this. They refuse to have any opinion that differs from Trump and/or Trump loyalist political talk show hosts.
If they don’t get Tucker Carlson’s permission to compromise…. they won’t compromise.
These are not intelligent people. (Except the evil portion of them, who are intelligent, and who know exactly what they’re doing)

@KNOWITALL it’s impossible when they can’t and won’t even try to understand the difference between gender and sex assigned at birth. Gender neutral bathrooms can sometimes be helpful, but at school it puts a target on the trans kids. They don’t want to be seen as trans or different. They want to be recognized as the gender they identify with. Using a gender neutral bathroom made specifically for them singles them out. Most trans kids will hold their urine at school to avoid problems with unwelcoming students. Holding your urine all day can cause health problems and makes trying to study and focus nearly impossible.

@jonsblond All I’m saying is you have a few here who don’t hate gay or trans, why not discuss it and try to understand eachother’s position better? I’ve shared the fact @chyna (I believe) presented me with that was fresh information, that the AMA ruled gender dysmorphia a medical condition, with several Republicans who had no idea.
It may be touchy but you’re welcome to try to talk it thru with me if you like.
You told me about TX legislation I was unaware of, too. Could it be that Republicans just aren’t staying up on these issues since they feel largely unaffected personally?

I think gender neutral bathrooms are the best solution. You can’t force people to feel comfortable with other genders in the same bathroom, but if it’s gender neutral, it doesn’t matter. When I worked for 30 years for the government, some of my favorite bathrooms were gender neutral, single stall. It was private and it was like being in my bathroom at home. When I go to the doctor, and he needs a urine sample, the bathroom is gender neutral, single stall. When I go to the library, often the bathroom is gender neutral, single stall. Everyone uses them, no problem.

One issue that’s often a problem in school bathrooms is fighting. If a kid is in the bathroom by themselves, there’s no fighting.

So is it just some red states taking it too far, or is it the fear of possible Federal changes?

I’m all for single stall bathrooms, but it’s very expensive to make them like that, especially if a company had to make several to accommodate many people.

We should probably move the topic to a new Q, but “gender neutral bathroom,” does that mean it has a girl and boy on the door? Neutral to me means no gender specified, why isn’t it called a bathroom for both genders? It is not just for transgender kids, it is for any child who wants to use it, isn’t it? A single stall bathroom for any child who prefers it. What if it is a bathroom not near other bathrooms so it isn’t such a big deal that someone chooses to use it? Then the emphasis is on location or maybe a child being modest.

@jonsblond I keep hearing that claim…that MAGA Republicans are killing trans people for being Trans. Yet I can’t seem to find any evidence of that at all. I found this site that list were killed this year. It’s interesting: I went through the first dozen or so and can’t find any where their trans status was the driving force. There might have been one but it isn’t certain. And it certainly wasn’t a MAGA Republican. A homeless guy beat the person to death with a pipe and then defiled the body. Not sure if that was driven by the trans status but it certainly was a mentally disturbed person. But your claim was MAGA Republicans are killing people. Where is your evidence?

On the flip side, Nancy Mace and her staff are getting death threats because she dared to push a movement to keep trans women (biological males) out of women’s bathrooms in the Capitol building. A rape survivor doesn’t want a man in the bathroom with her. Wow. But hey, she’s a biological woman so her rights and feelings don’t matter, right? 50% of the population should just be run over because we are trying to kowtow to 1%. And if they speak out they get death threats. So what is the trans community doing to work with people other than demanding everything for themselves?

@seawulf575 The way MAGA talks about trans issue creates a climate of hate and tells transgender people they have no place in society. It is horrible and dangerous. There is a vast difference in my mind between someone like @KNOWITALL acknowledging transgender needs and wanting to find a reasonable solution, contrasted by some right wing fanatic saying things that completely ostracize transgender people.

Just that the Republicans made this such a political issue is horrible to me. At this point Democrats also have it in their politics, but I can’t help wondering if it was better handled on a local level with compassion. I go back and forth about it.

I’m sick of people not understanding that inciting hate is dangerous. I’m one of the people who seriously questions transwomen in women’s sports, and I even have some worry young people are being encouraged to transition when it might not be appropriate and concerns about standards of practice in the psych and medical fields in the US regarding trans issues, but I can plainly see how difficult and isolating being transgender can be and from where I sit, MAGA doesn’t care and fails to see how their words and actions are scary for many minorities. I don’t generalize this to all Republicans obviously, but it is part of the Republican platform at this point.

The Capitol situation is stupid! The trans congresswoman is not a stranger, there is no reason to feel uncomfortable with her in the bathroom.

@JLeslie Yes, to me a gender neutral bathroom is one for anyone. It can be single stall, which you sometimes see in a small restaurant, at the doctor or hospital, in school (my daughter’s school has it for staff), in the library sometimes (my library has it), at the dentist. The mall near me has “family bathrooms” which are one big toilet, one small toilet (for kids) and a sink in each room. I used those sometimes even if I wasn’t with a kid, just because I like the privacy aspect.

Like I said, at school it would be great because there’s no fighting in the bathroom if there’s only one kid in there.

I’ve also been in gender neutral bathrooms for multiple people. The Museum of Modern Art has it at their restaurant in NYC. The stalls go from floor to ceiling, so there’s no fear of anybody peeking over or under the stalls.

@jca2 The NY bathrooms I have been to have stick figures of both a man and woman on the door unless it has changed. It doesn’t say “gender neutral.” I have seen the word “unisex” used. Is that word passé now? Neutral sounds odd to me, like erasing gender, but if that is now the polite way to say it doesn’t matter what gender you are I’ll adopt it.

K12 isn’t going to have “family” bathrooms I don’t think. That signifies a baby changing area.

Where I live we have a single men’s handicap bathroom next to the multistall, and a single women’s handicap next to the women’s multistall. I use the men’s single if the women’s multi is closed for cleaning and the women’s single is in use. I think the singles should be for any gender. Although, worth noting the women’s is usually cleaner, so separating it gives us a better shot at clean, but women can be gross too.

@JLeslie I didn’t say it says “gender neutral” on the door. That’s what I’m referring to it as, as others are on this thread. You’re right – it has the man and woman icon on the door.

@JLeslie Let’s get specific. Most of the MAGA discussions about Trans are not about people wanting to transition. It is about not trying to groom children (which the left claims isn’t happening so it shouldn’t matter), it is about not trying to exclude parents from decisions about transitioning of minor children, it is about not allowing biological males in women’s locker rooms, it is about not having biological males competing in women’s sports. None of those things are hateful against trans people. The are worries voiced about forcing trans ideology on children and putting women in danger of men in their private spaces, it is about respecting women and not relegating them to a lesser species which is what the trans community is trying to do. If you, as an adult, want to transition to the other gender, have at it. Want to live your life that way? Wonderful. But it is not mandatory for me to believe it is right, not to think it is normal and certainly not to throw everyone else under the bus to make your choice feel better to you.

As I mentioned earlier, Nancy Mace, while trying to express her views, has received death threats and threats of violence against herself and her staff. That is coming from the trans community. Those ARE hate speech and threats. Yet where is the outrage? Where is the push to have the trans community acknowledge other people’s feelings?

As for the idea of having separate bathrooms for trans people or bathrooms that are acknowledged as being one that either sex could be in, that was suggested long ago and the trans community fought against it. It isn’t about being able to use the bathroom, it’s about trying to force an ideology on society. It is more about saying “You have to accept us but we don’t have to consider you at all”.

^So you believe trump saying that children are under going transition related surgery during their school day?
Why the hell would schools/teachers want to “groom” children to transition? What would it behoove any person to do so?

I’m leaving the discussion. I won’t read the bs wulfie is writing and I feel this topic has hijacked the thread.

@chyna and remember coming from the orange one himself these children were getting the procedure done at school without the parents consent, that must be some nurses office.

@jca2 Originally, I was wondering if it literally says gender neutral on the bathroom, I might not have worded my question well. Still not a fan of the expression. Sounds like neutered.

@chyna You tried this same deflection before. No, I don’t believe they are getting the surgeries during the school day. But the school officials in some areas have pushed for the children to get the transition “treatments” and have helped fight to exclude parents from the decision. We have been through this before on a different thread and you challenged me with the same garbage. Actually I think you challenged me to show that schools were doing the surgeries. I clarified it at that time and gave you example after example where it was true. I also showed, because you guys said it was illegal to exclude parents in all 50 states that there were at least a few (that I cited) that had already passed laws to exclude parents. Stop using the same old ignorant dodge.

@jonsblond Well, bye. BTW, it was you that hijacked and redirected the thread. And I understand you don’t want open, honest dialogue and can’t actually back up the garbage you spew. But you should know by now that when you try to “redirect” by addressing me directly that there is a good chance I will respond. And as far as I can remember, it usually ends like this…with you running away.

I think it’s hilarious how conservatives say they care about life/lives, when they don’t care about ANYONE once their born.

I’m afraid I cannot see how criminalizing women’s reproductive care, is also from the same kind heart that is just trying to stick up for women with all these trans rapists around…

What a croc…

@MrGrimm888 So you are saying it’s okay to allow men into women’s private spaces even though this has led to rapes and sexual assaults? Think carefully….

@seawulf575 FAKE NEWS.

https://time.com/4314896/transgender-bathroom-bill-male-predators-argument/

Fears about male predators have NOT been borne out in those places (bathrooms).^^^^

@seawulf575 please provide reputable references for that outlandish statement. Else, you are part of the problem.

https://apnews.com/article/loudoun-virginia-lawsuit-transgender-bathroom-sexual-assault-a26168568cc20c2aa6cec9bef50e7c3f
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/investigations/man-posing-as-transgender-woman-raped-female-prisoner-at-rikers-lawsuit-says/5067904/

https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/education/2022/08/19/transgender-sexual-assault-report-bathroom-brevard-randy-fine-fdoe-could-bring-new-state-rules/10356216002/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/after-alleged-sexual-assault-officials-open-investigation-of-transgender-bathroom-policy/2018/10/09/431e7024-c7fd-11e8-9b1c-a90f1daae309_story.html

@Forever_Free Which, the one about letting men into women’s space to rape them? Sure.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-rules-loudoun-county-teen-131413442.html

Surely you’ve heard this one even though you would never admit to it. Loudon county schools allowed boys that said they were girls to use whichever bathroom they wanted. So a boy wearing a skirt went into the girls room, raping and sodomizing a 14 year old girl. When the girls father dared to speak out against the policy, describing what his daughter went through, they had him arrested for disturbing the peace and let the story stay buried. They then transferred the boy to a different school in the same school district and passed sweeping trans-rights policies including allowing boys into girls locker rooms and to play on girl’s sports teams. Meanwhile the boy went on to rape and sodomize another girl at the new school. That was about the time this hit national news.

@Forever_Free isn’t it amazing that I get accused of outlandish statements for speaking the truth and you get off for playing ignorant? You are the one that is part of the problem.

@Tropical_Willie how many women and girls need to get raped and brutalized before you are willing to even have an open discussion? I just gave one example of it happening, @knowitall gave several more. But I guess they are just cis-girls and cis-women to you so they don’t matter. Apparently you hate women.

@MrGrimm That’s where we differ. Women deserve safe spaces. All women. Not just trans.
The fact that many of you refuse to acknowledge cases is fucked up.
Equality does not mean others are put at risk.
I also know trans folks that legit would kill you for approaching a child, so its not trans hate its the fact that some people aren’t willing to risk it.
Im not a parent, Id never let any child in my custody use a bathroom alone anyway, but with multiple cases, more than i had time to list, acting as if its never happened while accusing parents of trans hate seems a bit unrealistic.

The general statements about Republicans not caring post birth is also incorrect as most states, including my own, either legalized abortion or added funds to support mothers post birth.
Do you do any research before posting? A few Google searches is quite easy.

@seawulf575 If they choose not to acknowledge reality, they will have to accept the consequences of predators using this issue to hurt others. Not all trans are predators of course, but those POSING as trans to commit crimes exist.

@KNOWITALL That is true. But there are some trans that ARE dangerous.

This one is from GB

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leicestershire-63785679

Then there is the Nashville shooter:

https://nypost.com/2023/03/27/nashville-school-shooter-audrey-hale-identified-as-transgender-and-had-detailed-manifesto-to-attack-christian-academy/

Then there is this jewel who is so tolerant and inclusive they posted death threats to Trump, J.K. Rowlings, and Nancy Mace. And, as far as I know, is still walking around free.

https://www.newstarget.com/2024-11-29-transgender-influencer-threatens-kill-rep-nancy-mace.html

For a group that is so extremely small (population percentage-wise), there seems to be an awful lot of danger they are bringing, or that the policies virtue signalers put in place bring.

I definitely acknowledge women are very vulnerable in a public bathroom. We pee with our pants down, and we can’t flee in that position, if someone busts into a stall what the fuck are we going to do?! We go in pairs to the bathroom for a reason.

It’s not that I think trans people are more likely to hurt me, I don’t think that at all, it doesn’t even occur to me, but a man who wants to hurt me could get into a women’s bathroom easier with a wig and dress on. I would have no problem with a transwoman who I knew in a bathroom with me, or a transwoman in a busy bathroom with me, or a man in a bathroom with his very young daughter in a busy bathroom with me. Some of it is situational.

I also am reluctant to get into an elevator with a man alone; that’s how my aunt was attacked. Nice looking guy, dressed in a nice sweatsuit, early in the morning when others weren’t in the offices yet.

It’s not weird that some women feel uncomfortable, it’s understandable, but it’s taken too far in my opinion. It’s not black and white, it’s grey.

Those women freaking out don’t even realize they have been in bathrooms with transwomen already, some transwomen you would never guess. It’s like when someone where I live says they’ve never met a Jew before. For sure they have. They aren’t living on a farm 3 hours from a city. They just don’t know the guy bagging their groceries at the supermarket is Jewish.

I still say the best solution, when available, is the single stall. No fighting, no drama, just go in to the bathroom, have some privacy, have your own sink, what’s not to like?

Of course, it’s not always available. Not every place has them.

To those who say kids won’t go to the bathroom in a single stall, I say when you gotta go, you gotta go.

@jca2 Plus, having the single bathrooms might be helping other students not just transgender students. Female students who are afraid can use, students embarrassed to have a bowel movement in the multi-stall, it could be ADA compliant too.

I would think at least some transgender kids might welcome the option. I wonder if transboy kids feel odd going into the boys room? I know I’m a girl, but I think it’s so odd for boys anyway to be peeing in open urinals.

I stand firmly behind my 100% accurate assessment that conservatives don’t care about people, unless they are a fetus…

There are more sexual predators in Trump’s cabinet nominee list, than there are occasions of rapists identifying as trans, just to have access to the women’s restroom…

Unfortunately, the world is full of terrible people, and rapes in restrooms did not begin with a trans issue.

Wulf. I suggest YOU “think carefully,” before proclaiming yourself as caring about women. Rape is a very real thing. If it were up to people like conservatives, women would be forced to carry a child from a rape.
You’re already removing their civil rights, like Trump said “we’re going to ‘protect’ women, whether they like it or not.”..

The ONLY thing you have EVER protected, is Trump.

Just to follow up on what I wrote two posts above, I really hate that bathrooms have become political and that laws are being talked about regarding the issue. People go into bathrooms basically on the honor system. We obey the signs on the doors most of the time for ourselves and for others. I think that should be enough. If a transwoman who doesn’t pass well goes into a women’s bathroom and you don’t feel comfortable using it at the same time, then just wait until she is done, just like my elevator example, I wait for the next elevator. I don’t want a transwoman going to jail because she walked into a woman’s bathroom, the same way I don’t want to go to jail for using the men’s room, which I do several times a year.

Edit: Trump said a transwoman could use any bathroom she wants in his building, that was his initial answer. I know he does double speak, but I think that was probably his real answer on the topic.

@JLeslie It is true that bathroom usage is somewhat on an honor basis. But if it is segregated and a guy walks in, it can be easier to identify him as not belonging and call it out or call for help. If you have policies that say anyone can “identify” as a woman and use the women’s room you have now put a pause in the mix. A woman seeing a man in the bathroom will now hesitate, sure she will be castigated if she says anything. That gives a guy that is looking for trouble an extra assistance in doing whatever he wants.

But it goes well beyond just bathrooms. It goes into locker rooms where everyone is stripping down. It goes into showers where everyone is already naked. It goes into sports where biological men have a huge and sometimes dangerous advantage over women.

^There’s the hate, Wulf.
You couldn’t help but mention another total anomaly, to paint trans people as “dangerous.”
But you don’t care how many women die, from back alley abortions or related medical needs.

@seawulf575 If a woman hesitates, waits, gets security, or another woman or a man to watch the door while she goes, that is all just fine, I don’t see her being castigated. It happens so rarely it is not a big issue, and should not be made into one. Not made into an issue by the political right or the left or the police.

@MrGrimm888 So if @JLeslie says it she’s not full of hate but @seawulf575 says it and he is full of hate. Wtf Chris?

And for the last fucking time, the abortion issue went to each states voters to decide. Blame the state not all Republicans. Missouri voted to keep abortion legal in a red state like many ithers so why are you still throwing that out like @seawulf575 had any say in my state or any other than his own?
Ya’ll need to decide if you want to protect women and womens rights or not.

@seawulf575 I have this one precious life and I’m not going to waste it arguing with someone who regurgitates MAGA lies and fears.

@seawulf575 lives in a conspiracy theory world – - – sounds like he thinks ALL males should be castrated because MAGA says so . . . .

^^ with exception to the followers who can do no wrong and violate underage girls. It’s always a two way street for these MAGA fanatics.

@KNOWITALL I catch hate for it, but I also don’t say the exact same thing. I am not saying bar trans people altogether from using their preferred bathroom, and I am really pissed the base of the Republican party turned the bathroom thing into a huge issue.

@MrGrimm888 There are some that paint themselves as dangerous. Calling in death threats is a sign of danger, wouldn’t you say? But honestly, it isn’t the trans people I worry about the most. It is the bullshit policies that will let some straight perv/rapist say he’s a woman and go on into the private areas. The only part of the trans that I find dangerous is them playing against biological women in contact sports. And there is biological reasons why. You know…trust the science? Yeah…that. The only other part that I find extremely idiotic is that the feelings of the women are not considered at all. Why should a dozen women on a sports team have to get naked in front of a biological male or have to see him getting naked in front of them? Why should they have to shower with them? And when they complain, the trans activists come out of the wood work to attack them. They are treated as being unreasonable for not accepting it with a smile. It’s bullshit.

@jonsblond Fair enough. Curl up in your safe space.

Wulf. Sir. I believe that you have a severely inaccurate view, of the trans issue in sports.
And you keep saying that boys are identifying as trans, to rape girls. I’m glad you can dig a wild story up, for an example.
There are always anomalies, in life.

The norm, is that is causes the biggest problems with children with conservative parents.
I have NO idea why you believe there are straight men in every high-school girl’s locker room, watching them undress.

You conservatives get ALL bent out of shape, over things that don’t jive with your religion.

You are probably unaware of this, but most people, didn’t like using the restroom at school.
Most people, still don’t even use the restroom at their place of employment.
That’s a western thing.
In many countries, they do restroom stuff in public.

The sports stuff, is again VERY rare. In contact sports, they typically are gender specific.
But. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with coed sports.
And so, there should be very little problems with trans athletes.

You surely understand that of the rare trans athletes that have competed with females, the trans athletes, are not usually dominant, or necessarily better than their female counterparts.

Yes. Conservatives all turned Karen, over a couple of Olympic boxers. The games were not considered a failure.
The Olympics, were STILL the Olympics.

I read an article recently, about I think Boise State’s girl’s volleyball team, forfeiting a championship game because one of the players on the opposing team was trans.
FOX “News” actually reported this, and was quick to paint the Boise State team, as heroes, for standing up to the team with a trans athlete.

You’re welcome to your own opinion, but I think that team is full of cowards. Most likely, their parents are upset because they believe their daughters team might lose, so they dodged the game like Trump dodged the US draft. Cowards.

If you really want to dig into contact sports, you are digging in the wrong place.
First off, ALL sports carry a risk of injury.
Secondly. ALL athletes or their parents/guardian, signed off on the possibility of injury or they wouldn’t be on a school or recreational team.

I have personally witnessed females of all ages, playing competitively in sports with males, and they turn out great.

I think that America’s girls, are a LOT tougher than you conservatives seem to be.
They don’t need protection from getting better in life.
They need protection from people who would want them to be forced to carry a baby from a rape. Quite possibly a rape, by one of Trump’s cabinet nominees…

This guy thinks there are trannies showering with college girls, against there will.
Thinks a little boy, could come home as a little girl…

On your flip side, you defend ALL of Trump’s sexually predatory behavior. You ignore the sexual assault allegations of several of Trump’s nominees. The allegations of sex trafficking, and underage prostitutes, and drugs.

BUT.

I thought you wanted, to protect women?..

@KNOWITALL. Trump stocked the Supreme Court, specifically to strike down Roe v Wade.
He has made many claims about his feelings on abortion, but has waffled a LOT. You know that. Trump has changed his tune about abortion, and the circumstances that would (to him) give a woman the right to have an abortion.
As Trump hasn’t kept his word about anything but tax breaks for the wealthy, your really just hoping he will usher in the change you support.

The conservatives want abortion outlawed federally (Trump doesn’t care,) and I don’t see why you would attempt to say otherwise.
It’s OK, if you believe abortion is wrong.
But what if the child, or it’s parents need financial augmentation?
What if the child, grows up to be trans?
What if the child will not accept Christian indoctrination?

As a first world nation/democracy, we have a duty to serve ALL of our law abiding citizens.
That means programs that aid the impoverished, will be mandatory. You can’t ignore and neglect the poor, out of existence.
When an American woman has a child, or a child is born on American soil, the child is America’s child too.
I know conservatives HATE “socialist” concepts, but if you’re going to force people to be born, you’re going to have to make sure they don’t become a menace to society, by paying for their health care, education, food, daycare, etc…

I wonder how many abortions Trump himself paid for?....

@MrGrimm888 JD and a few others do support a federal abortion ban but its not supported by those of us who lean liberal on some issues regarding healthcare/morality.

I like sports and competition from boxing to football to golf. I do not like watching a former male beat a womans ass on tv and think thats really cool. You of all people should clearly understand the physical differences that make that not a competition but a beat down.

@JLeslie Seems to me people with a penis going to womens restrooms is the problem. And those are not Republicans.

Neither abortion or bathrooms affect my life in any way, folks. But I can certainly see why others could be upset, it’s just a different point of view and I’m sure we’ll find a way to compromise.

Me! Me! I have the compromise!!!

@MrGrimm888 As usual you are grabbing things I say and assigning whatever belief you want there to be, regardless of the words. You are hopeless.

^You do the exact same thing.

@KNOWITALL It’s so rare, I just think it doesn’t need to be a national discussion. Maybe because I grew up being wary of all men and hyper aware of where I might be unsafe, this trans issue is just another thing. The average guy who would never hurt a woman gets caught up in my suspicion too unfortunately.

I think people shouldn’t be so defensive, mean, and hysterical about transwomen making some women uncomfortable in a bathroom, and also the people who are uncomfortable don’t need to be hysterical about it either, just do what will make them comfortable.

If a man walked into a women’s bathroom what would you do?

@JLeslie Myself, Id probably ask wth he’s doing and if I felt threatened, Id defend
Im much more dangerous if children, teens or older women are involved.
With a trans identifying as female and appearing female, I have zero issues personally. But if children, teens or more vulnerable parties were involved, I may choose to stand watch, depending on my perception of a threat level. 250lb trans w beard would feel more of a threat than a fem trans presenting as a woman at 150lbs.

My question for you and other here is that if you already know and understand how often women are targeted and victimized, should this be another burden on those more vulnerable?
A man in a dress or in a suit or naked still has the advantage physically over most females.
I just dnt want anyone hurt on either side and imo a trans in a womans bathroom here may not leave that bathroom breathing. Seems risky for all involved.

Thanks for my daily laughter

What you got Dutch?

Ok ok ok ok!
At Walmart they don’t have doors to go in the bathroom. It’s just a large opening that faces a wall.
You go right for 3 steps then go left to find your self in the actual bathroom. They have 5 or 6 separate stalls.
We could replace the short stall doors with actual doors that you can lock.
It’s very open and just a few feet from the store floor. Any commotion would be easily heard out on the floor.
I feel like I’m in the safety of a crowd, but have the privacy I want at the same time.

@KNOWITALL What does “defend” mean?

A transwoman walks into the bathroom who looks at best guess that he was born a man. She walks in, uses a stall, washes her hands and walks out. She’s not loitering, she is just using the bathroom. Anyone uncomfortable can wait to use the bathroom. I would think if there is 20 women in the bathroom, they would feel safety in their numbers anyway. If it’s just me alone, I would probably walk out or call my husband to be on the phone with me or both.

In my 56 years of life I can only think of 2 times there has been a transwoman in the bathroom with me not counting the many times it has happened to me at a gay club I used to go to regularly, and they were diva drag queens.

@JLeslie A man walking into a ladies room here would likely be hurt before too many questions were asked. Just stating a fact.
Oh my sentence cut off, sorry. I would defend myself and others against any perceived threat.

I don’t need convincing Dutch.

I honestly don’t see it as a real problem, at all. A public restroom, is what it is…

Well I’m a women and you’re not. I’ve fended off my share of attacks. I quickly learned, by the age of 14 or so, to avoid dangerous situations if I can. Men I’ve been with did NOT have the same concerns.
It is what it is @MrGrimm888.

@KNOWITALL many trans men pass as muscular and hairy men. If Republicans get their way by policing genitals in bathrooms, you’ll see men using the female bathrooms. Who is going to police this? It’s such an absurd fear and waste of time and resources.

Here’s an example. This is Buck Angel. What would you do if you saw him using a women’s restroom? https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=12dd82caf9fb79d9&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS889US889&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ADLYWIKQsGGYfey1oqfxSKeGIy4x7PVToQ:1733549369634&q=buck+angel&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0Aa4sjWe7Rqy32pFwRj0UkWd8nbOJfsBGGB5IQQO6L3J7pRxUp2pI1mXV9fBsfh39Jw_Y7pXPv6W9UjIXzt09-YegAtV1VoWKN6OiX4MwQt2qvBFWcMGSeq3aXfzzY5czPsFv89PbgQf0NrziEHH8w0YYaPy5-C9QgwAuGAulQlBVTIXodbNJ3d6SQdWZ17XTs9nGt30l5103T7FG42F-z2dU2VPfp0RkKaxhdbdmiGWkg_0LQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiDuILT9pSKAxV3m4kEHZZMIncQtKgLegQIERAB&biw=428&bih=751&dpr=3

Meanwhile I pee in the woods and get tree sap stuck on my butt. :D

Or poison ivy in your cervix @jonsblond!

Well if Buck Angel used the women’s bathroom while I was in there I would be uncomfortable. He is biologically a female but I wouldn’t know that.

Correct Dutch. Restrooms can be a bad place.
ANYWHERE I’m going, that I haven’t been, and there’s likely just one way out I ALWAYS am leary of those situations.

What I’m saying is I don’t think an occasional trans person, would add actual risk, to an already less than ideal place like a restroom.

If there are guys walking around, completely worry free, I doubt their competence.

Around my area, women walk a LOT. It’s a way for them to get places like work. The women that I know walk to/from work each day, usually had an umbrella or stick with them. This was mainly for an unexpected dog, but I’m sure they felt a little better than with nothing.

Situational awareness, is not a luxury, either gender can wisely neglect.
There are definitely places, I would rather not go, because I don’t want to have a problem.
I don’t live in constant fear, but I am always aware of what’s going on around me.
That’s an unfortunate necessity, due to the way life is.

I remember a Dave Chappelle stand up, where he was talking about an occasion when he was a young man and was tasked with transporting something like $20k, across the city.
He said something like he finally understood what it was like to be a woman. That is, to have something of value. Unfortunately, it doesn’t matter what we’re talking about, if something has worth, others may try and take it…
But. It amused me, to no end, with the accuracy of the analogy.
It also illustrates exactly how much a man is worth, as far as having something that someone else would be willing to steal.
Of course, there IS male on male rape, but it’s certainly less common than male on female.

It is not a matter of men not having to worry in public, because we’re all physically capable. It’s the fact that if we don’t have jewelry, or anything else, there is little reason we would face an altercation, in normal circumstance.

A female, has something that is of great value, attached to them.

That is the main difference, in regards to public existence.

But if you walk down the wrong path, or don’t notice a potential threat, you are just as vulnerable regardless of gender to a negative experience.

When I was 7, I got my nose broken and beat up by a 13 year old boy, at school.
I had blood ALL down the front, of my shirt, and pants.
I was pathetic trying to defend myself, so the bigger kid was fine.
But we both ended up, in the principle’s office. Where the principle beat both of us, with a wooden paddle.

Public restrooms, were a nightmare in public schools.
Locker rooms, were worse.

If it were up to me, ALL future restrooms would be unisex, and just a single, lockable stall.
The only law after that, is just one at a time, unless there is help required because of a medical or drug problem.

As far as locker rooms, I went through a VERY uncomfortable time, ALL through childhood in locker rooms. At one point, we shared lockers with older kids, and I used locker rooms all through school for sports.
So. There was a time when kids my age, didn’t have pubic hair, and it was embarrassing that older kids did. Seeing older guys in high-school locker rooms (we shared a pool at one school) was shocking, because they had hair everywhere, and were ya know more developed down there. It was humiliating, and embarrassing. There was a LOT of constant verbal assault, and occasional physical assault.

I’m sure it occasionally happens, in girls locker rooms (violence,) but I have never heard a woman describe their experiences as anything close to what the boys went through.

ALL adults I ever knew, were of the mindset that ALL kids should simply get over being uncomfortable naked around others. It was a part of life.
As a man, you would potentially go to the military and have to be ok with the naked stuff, or you could end up in jail or prison.
Does anyone remember the scenes in “Full Metal Jacket,” when they were in the restrooms? Just lines of toilets, and not even dividing walls of any sort. THAT was how I was raised. That my feelings of being uncomfortable with those situations, was just something I better get used to and stop complaining about.
I did not, and still don’t agree with what we put kids through.
But. We all went through it.

I’ve also unfortunately had the displeasure of cleaning public restrooms many times. The women’s room, is disgusting.

I wager, IF a trans kid had walked into the restroom dressed as the gender they identified as, I wouldn’t even notice.

@jonsblond Is there still any sap residual?

Let me give an example @MrGrimm888. My college boyfriend came to visit me over the summer. We found ourselves strolling along the Riverwalk beside the Arkansas River in Wichita. It was about 11 at night. DARK! And you know that regular people go home when it’s dark and the freakies come out after dark.
I hesitated but then agreed.
I was absolutely terrified the whole time. He was not the least bit worried.
Another time Rick and I were in Kansas City. It was dark and he wanted to take a walk. It was well lit so I said OK.
Well he led us…and a couple of times found us in very scary dark allies. Again I was almost hyperventilating in fear. Not him. He was just out for a stroll.
I bet neither of them had the dad of the kids you babysat that evening, say he would give you a ride home, then pull over first chance he got and attack them. I was completely caught off guard. This was a friend of my parents. I was 15. My guard should have been up…but I wasn’t experienced enough to sense the set up.

Yeah. People roll the dice, ALL the time with their lives, but often don’t even realize it.
It’s not just dead women, that are found face down in alleys…

If a man is found dead in an ally they figure he got into a fight he couldn’t run from.

All women need to do is walk around minding their own business.

Men don’t get killed just for being men.

Women get jumped and raped just for being women. Or girls.

My concern wasn’t for being killed.

@Dutchess_III Isn’t if funny that when I point out policies that put women and girls in sketchy positions, I’m called a hater. When you do it, it’s okay. Why is that?

Like what “policy”? What are you talking about?

^He thinks dems force girls to get naked with men.

Relevant. Doesn’t care that he voted for “grab ‘em by the pussy,” but still claims that he’s trying to keep women safe…

LOLLL!

I still can’t imagine what “policy” He’s talking about? The old ones like a man is allowed to rape his wife but it’s not called rape? Or he can beat her and the kids cause it’s HIS castle? Or the one where if a woman brings rape charges she’ll be told it’s her own fault?
IDK.

^The policy where all women are being forced to watch trannies gangbanging in their locker rooms, or raping girls.
When ALL those trans kids, are guys that went through gender transition, for the sole purpose of having a license to rape all they want!
The trannies might hold your little boy down, and perform a sex change on him, without you being aware of anything!

The Haitian trannies… the children….the trannies are eating the children…It’s terrible.. .and they are destroying entire neighborhoods!
It’s a fucking calamity Dutch!

Oh. Those. I forgot about those.

@Dutchess_III I’ve spoken repeatedly about them already in this thread. You, of course, want to rant and challenge with solid ignorance as your weapon of choice. Ask Reilly Gaines, a biological woman, how she felt about the policies that had her stuck in a locker room with a biological male? Ask Scott Smith how he felt after voicing his displeasure with the Loudon County VA school board trans policy after his 14 year old daughter was raped and sodomized by a boy in a skirt. That’s always the one you idiots on the left want to ignore. In an effort to accomodate “trans” people, they said students could use whatever bathroom they identified with. This led to a boy in a skirt going into the bathroom and raping and sodomizing Smith’s daughter. When the girl reported it to the school, the school board tried covering it up and they transferred the boy to another school and buried the reports. The boy went on to do the same thing to another girl at his new school. And Mr. Smith was arrested for being a domestic terrorist because he was upset with the school board about this and they didn’t want to talk about it.

This is the crapola you try to defend all while you are trying to say you are for women’s rights. Let’s get definitions down so we can have a reasonable conversation? Give me the definition of a woman without using the word “woman” in the definition?

^^ OMG you believe that crap @seawulf?? Oh shit.

@Dutchess_III I admit to not having heard of Reilly Gaines and Scott Smith so just now I googled it. Apparently, the incidents are real and it’s been reported about in mainstream media news.

Here are some links, the first from ABC News about Gaines, the second from CNN about Scott Smith. I believe the Scott Smith one has underlines in it which are links to other articles from the NY Times (so definitely not right wing news).

Riley Gaines – https://abcnews.go.com/US/dozen-female-athletes-sue-ncaa-transgender-participation-policy/story?id=108185214

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/10/politics/glenn-youngkin-scott-smith-pardon/index.html

@Dutchess_III Thank you for confirming my beliefs about you. You get handed facts that you don’t like so you just claim they are false and then run.

@jca2 Thank you. I did post one citation about Scott Smith way up in this thread. It was already discussed. I hadn’t posted about Reilly Gaines, but I figured there wasn’t a person in the country that hadn’t heard of the Lia Thomas upheaval. This link:

https://www.newsweek.com/moment-swimmer-riley-gaines-abused-trans-activists-viewed-450000-times-1793155

tells of how Riley was accosted by trans activists for daring to speak out about her discomfort on the topic. It is a great example of how women are now second class citizens in the eyes of the left. It isn’t about women’s rights, it’s about placating the trans agenda.

@jonsblond I doubt Buck would feel welcomed here in a ladies room. Its their choice but seems dangerous.

@Dutchess_III This post shows how actual women and girls are punished for daring to say they are against the trans policies.

@seawulf575 I just don’t want anyone surprised or showing outage when someone dies over this issue. It will happen.

@KNOWITALL Why would you not want someone surprised or outraged with this? The ones that might be are the ones that are in denial about rapes happening. If someone gets killed, they won’t blame it on the policies, they’ll victim blame. That seems to be the order of things that go against the narrative…ignore, deny, victim blame.

Get a room you two !

Complimenting each other as right wingers is not proving anything.

@Tropical_Willie You are just unable to admit most voters seem to agree with us. All you will get involving children in the woke agenda, is good people killed. We can find a compromise if you guys can give a little, too. Maybe it should go to a state level vote like abortion?

We will learn over the next four years @KNOWITALL. Some of his choices for Government
members sounds like he thinks it is okay to be felon or sex abuser. The rest will go after his “enemies” like the entire January 6th committee. https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/trump-says-everyone-on-the-jan-6-committee-including-liz-cheney-should-go-to-jail-226490437697

Feel most right wingers think the Democratic Party is the enemy.

@KNOWITALL “most voters seem to agree with us.” Trump won by a slim margin. Trump voters are in the minority when you add up all the votes of those who didn’t vote Trump.

@Forever_Free my bum is sap free. :D

“Save girls sports?”
What a joke.
They’ve never had it so good.
Even the WNBA, is popular now.

Women are good at sports, if they’re good at them.

I have always been athletic, and played lots of sports.
In my life, I have been absolutely dominated by girls in a LOT of sports.
If you had out me at my most athletic, on a girls college volleyball team, I’d have been out of my element.
I could have been more physical with the girls I lost to, but that wouldn’t have changed the fact they sometimes had a really great shot in basketball, and some girls I went to school with had handles too.
I might could have beat up Rhonda Rousey, IF I tried to kill her. But she’d likely twist me up.

AGAIN. People DO sustain injuries (or worse,) in ALL sports.
On the news this morning, they said 3 people up north had died shoveling snow…

AGAIN. If you cared about women, you should be far more concerned with their reproductive/human rights.

Conservatives will parade around trans controversy, when it rarely appears.
Will those same conservatives care about how many women WILL die, from illegal abortions, or other female related health issues?

Girls can be excellent in whatever sport. I was an athelete….but men’s competition is more fun to watch. Oops. Off topic.

^I prefer women’s volleyball, in the Olympics.
The WNBA would be more exciting if they lowered the goal post some, so they could dunk…
They are excellent swimmers too.

Why do you prefer women’s volleyball?

Surely it can’t be for the outfits they wear. ~

@MrGrimm888 Wait a second, I hadn’t thought about the height of the basket. It probably should be a half a foot lower. The thing is, most of the country doesn’t have a special court for women to play on in parks and gyms, so they practice with the standard height.

EXACTLY my thoughts @chyna! Btw…they are reqired to wear them.
Shouldn’t the men be required to wear speedos? You know…so all the gay men can fantasize?

Okay, now we are onto women’s sports. Let me ask: why do we have women’s sport leagues?

Agree about the women’s volleyball outfits and men, but I’m pretty sure the women are allowed to wear looser fitting clothes with sleeves and long pants.

Not in Volleyball JLeslie.

Because some women are exceptional athletes and they deserved to be recognized too @seawulf575.

@Dutchess_III Not allowed to wear outfits that cover more? Is that the Olympics you are talking about, or just the US, or the sport in general no matter where they are playing or what competition? I don’t see how they can require so much skin to show, it excludes women uncomfortable with so much skin showing. I think that is horrible. Doesn’t sound right to me that they would be only allowed to wear a bikini.

@Dutchess_III We created women’s sports because women are not physically strong as men. Men have more muscle mass, bigger bones, etc. They are better at many sports. If women were to compete with men, none of those exceptional athletes would be seen and many would be hurt. Look at Riley Gaines. She is a huge deal…an exceptional female swimmer. Her husband is also a swimmer and ranks somewhere in the 200’s for men. But he can whoop her ass in the pool every day of the week. She even says it is true. But now we are saying that biological men should be allowed to compete in women’s sports because they say they feel like a woman. So men are competing against women and are gaining fame and fortune while eclipsing those exceptional women athletes. Not to mention hurting some of those women while competing, depending on the sport. So are you supporting women or men?

@seawulf575 , You mention a school that told students they can use whatever bathroom they “identify with”.
There is a huge difference between a transgender woman and a man who “identifies as” a woman. The former just is. The latter is engaging in an action.
The school is failing to recognize the difference between the two. I’m not sure if you fail to recognize that difference as well.
Was that school engaging in “leftist tolerance” to the point of ridiculousness?
Yes.
It reminds me of the Canadian school that went out of its way to protect one of their teachers “Kayla” Lemieux.
Kayla Lemieux is clearly a man who is “identifying” as a woman. Most likely as a way to get away with a fetish he has.
Real transgender people are not engaging in a fetish. They are just being who they are.
People who want to protect transgender people (as well as those who are suspicious of transgender people or politically against them) need to learn to use reason.
The job protection of Lemieux actually creates harm for real transgender people.
Statistically, even per capita, a kid is in greater danger in a bathroom with a Christian pastor, than he or she would would be in a bathroom with a transgender person.
But we need to differentiate between real transgender people, and people who are just “choosing” to “identify” as something. There’s a massive difference between the two.
We’ve all heard the stories of people who “choose” to “identify as” animals, or babies, or whatever. Those people are being gamey. And that includes men (transvestites, crossdressers, etc) who glom onto the transgender rights movement in order to act out their lame fetish. Such men are taking advantage of people who are struggling to just be able to live as who they really are.
Transgender people deserve full rights.
People engaging in a fetish, or game, or some sort of performance art meant to provoke or get away with something…. don’t deserve any such rights.
A transgender woman in a woman’s bathroom is perfectly fine.
A man who has a crossdressing fetish in a woman’s bathroom… should go to prison.

Actually most of the volleyball chicks, are not my type as far as sexual attraction. I’m not calling them ugly, but I prefer a “thicker” woman.
I can’t remember their names, but a few Olympics ago, there was a duo of USA girls (one wore KT tape on her shoulder,) in the beach volleyball team that were awesome. I lived with a lot of guys in a big house at the time, and the Olympics were always on in the living room.
I started watching those girls, and rooted for them throughout the games. They won Gold.
I think they played in the Olympics after that, too.

They were a great team, and again, they would have killed me in volleyball…

Sorry to disappoint all of the man bashers here, but one doesn’t have to try and get off on sports. Women are showing (and spreading) what they have for free online. Presumably, because they are desperate for attention...

I love boxing and MMA, and in MMA, the men often wear revoltingly skimpy and tight shorts.
The fucking French pole vaulter from this year’s Olympics went viral, for his package…
Nobody likes a hypocrite…

I had several nieces and nephews, that I helped through multiple years of different sports. I coached on one of my nephews basketball teams, etc.

I can say, from a lot if observation, that women/females, are VERY competitive.
Just like they can’t get along in real life, the girls ALWAYS had the most physical and emotional games. Even if the score was crazy low, the girls recreational basketball teams’ games were very exciting to watch.
Even when I didn’t have a niece playing, the girls usually played first, then the boys.
So. If I arrived before my nephew’s game, I would have to watch several other games before his.
The girls are straight gangster!

Has anyone watched the WNBA, lately? Like I said, if they could dunk more it would probably add to the experience, but they are VERY good athletes.
Kaitlyn Clark, is amazing. Her intensity, and natural ball IQ, are comparable to the best males in the sport. Her shooting, is special.
At first, a LOT of the other WNBA players didn’t like Clark. She got too much attention. They play her HARD, on D, and she’s just a baller…She’s not just a tall woman, forced into playing.
No offense to Clark, but she’s not my type either…

There just isn’t anything sexual, about sports. In most cases.

There IS a woman on tictok that is a gorgeous Icelandic cliff diver. I could watch her do anything, but her dives are impressive and I’m always afraid she’ll kill herself…

I’m a sports fan. Some of the sports I watch/follow, are women’s teams.
My family is a Carolina Gamecocks family.
We have a great women’s basketball team, and I will hopefully be watching them ball again this March.

I will say, that my friends and I did discuss the Australian women’s teams’ outfits a couple Olympics ago, as being too “sexy.”

If you’re an NFL fan, then you see most players in their underwear, at the draft combine, running and catching and doing other drills.

ALL big fights, have a weigh in, and the fighters are sometimes naked at the weigh in.

Being an athlete, means wearing uncomfortable things, and you have to be comfortable with your body.

The main reason for not having coed sports, is more about competition, than gender.
In a competition, height/weight, are the most important variables.
In most sports, there is qualification required, to prove the person is able to play said sport.
Nobody is forcing ANY children, into ANYTHING.

One CAN usually forfeit, in sports. That was the route that the Boise State team took. To give the team with a trans athlete, the victory, and life goes on…

In addition, in contact sports like boxing, the athlete has a “corner” or group of advisors or at minimum a coach in the corner during each fight, whose job is to carefully monitor the fight, and “throw in the towel” if their athlete is taking too much damage.
AND there’s a highly trained referee, usually in the ring with the athletes watching VERY closely.
In further addition, there is a medical team, at all contact sports games, and in many practices, ready to respond to any problems, and also monitoring the athlete’s overall medical condition.

Further, and further more, things like fights, legally have to be sanctioned to even take place. Which involves a comitee overviewing the match-up, and the qualifications and health of each fighter.

The ONLY thing that comes to mind as a potential problem in international sports, is say a communist country forcing a male to go through life as a “trans” person for the sole purpose of competing in the Olympics.
However. I have already listed the many reasons that a MORE dangerous situation cannot be created.
We won’t one day watch a 5’5 100 lb girl, beong forced to fight a 6’6 300 lb man with tits…
It cannot happen, unless the female agrees, and the fight passes a vetting process.
No forcing of ANYTHING, ever.

With recent research results about CTE, ALL sports are under increased scrutiny to keep the athletes safe.

This bullshit conservatives keep pushing, only exists in® Mark Robinson’s internet search history…...

@Kraigmo “There is a huge difference between a transgender woman and a man who “identifies as” a woman. The former just is. The latter is engaging in an action.” Yep. How do you tell the difference? What is the defining line? How do you keep the man that identifies as a woman out of the safe spaces for women? Go ahead, convince me. Right now, all the policies that are pushing for trans are defaulting to not having to actually set a definition on what a trans person is. They don’t want to identify what a woman is. They don’t want to identify what a man is. They don’t want to identify what a trans person is. They want extremely gray lines everywhere, using stupid definitions like “A woman is someone that identifies as a woman.” Based on that definition there is no difference between a trans person and a guy that says he feels like a woman.

THAT is the crux of the issue. It is THE point that the left refuses to work on. They want to blast people like me that point out the idiocy and danger involved in their policies, but they don’t want to make any effort to try defining boundaries. You can pontificate all day long about how there are differences, but you will not, CANNOT, set a policy in place that separates the two. There was a great upheaval when it was suggested that trans people have their own bathrooms (which would have eliminated the problem). That wasn’t acceptable to them, yet they can’t actually show how the policies they want don’t put women and girls in danger. They don’t care. They don’t want to even have the discussion.

^ “How do you tell the difference?”

There should be police at every bathroom inspecting genitalia.~

Transgender people use public restrooms every day without any problem, at least to the general public. Women getting attacked by a man cross dressing is VERY rare. Meanwhile trans kids and adults get attacked all the time because they don’t look manly enough for the men’s room or girlie enough for the women’s room.

These attacks are NOT rare. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Nex_Benedict

Trans people should have their own water fountains according to your logic.

I’m surprised there are no support groups for the thousands of women who are harassed by cross dressers in bathrooms.

I wish Republicans had the same energy for school shooters as they do for trans women. :(

@jonsblond You really think there will be people in the bathroom asking you to strip to verify you have a vagina? I’m against having laws for bathrooms on this topic, but I can’t see Americans supporting anything close to this.

Actual stats don’t address someone’s comfort or feeling of safety. The stats matter, don’t get me wrong, but risk is a perception for women that is drilled into us from a very young age.

Transmen being attacked by men is born from hate and totally despicable and criminal.

Women being nervous in a bathroom because a transwoman still looks very male is born from girls and women being told that men (to be clear I am stating men not transmen) are to be feared. Plus, add all of the times we or a girl or woman close to us has actually been accosted, molested, or raped already in our lives.

This leads to why I think the female senator making a fuss about the transgender senator being in the bathroom is bullshit. I can’t see any reason to fear the transgender senator recently elected into office.

Here is a “middle ground” video between transgender people who are conservative and liberal. I saw it a long time ago, it was interesting. https://youtu.be/wSar7j_1MtM?si=CERfa9tlluw5FhKy

Typo: in the parentheses I should have written (…men not transwomen)…

@jonsblond How many women and girls have to get raped before you are satisfied? Before you will say there might be a problem? But you failed to actually answer the question…how do you tell the difference between a trans person and a poser when you give blanket policies? Your dodge gave the answer: you don’t want the policies changed.

And you made a claim earlier that MAGA Republicans kill trans people all the time. You claim it is a frequent thing. I challenged you earlier to show me all the trans that were killed by MAGA republicans and you dodged that one. Now you are making claims that even though @KNOWITALL and myself have shown multiple examples of posers attacking women because they are allowed into the private spaces, you say it is extremely rare. You then go on to say that trans people getting attacked happens all the time and you give one example. That doesn’t prove all the time and, in fact, makes it look like it is extremely rare. And the case you cited was a teenager that got picked on at school and committed suicide. Those teens picking were likely not MAGA Republicans so I’m still waiting for that one. But to say picking on someone is in the same realm as brutal rapes and assaults is pitiful. The suicide says this person is extremely unstable to start with. That is, after all, one of the biggest differences between trans people and others…the suicide rate. Something about trans people makes them far more likely to commit suicide. Getting picked on is generally not enough for stable people.

Now tell me how you aren’t going to waste time on reading my response. It is a typical seagull behavior by you.

And come to think of it, there is a way to distinguish between actual trans people and posers. trans people have to have psychological and medical treatments. Have the doctors give them a little card that says they are under a doctors care for their transition. That way the idiotic claim of the left of someone checking genitalia becomes just that…an idiotic claim. But let me guess: the trans people don’t want to do that! That might stigmatize them!! How could it stigmatize them more than the trans itself?

@seawulf575 Are you really going to ignore that blatant outward and vocal hate, violence, and disapproval of transgender fosters depression and suicidal thoughts? WTF?! You screw up any reasonable discussion on the topic by calling transgender people mentally unstable and not acknowledging environmental (society) factors are probably the most important factor in depression and suicidal thoughts.

@jonsblond knows more about the trans community from living in that community with her son than you will ever know from reading your cherry picked google articles @seawulf575.
She has been to specialists, doctors, belongs to groups in the last several years to better understand her so. And the community. Give it a break wulfie. You DO NOT know as much as you think you do.

I think someone HOPES all transgender commit suicide . . . @jonsblond !

@JLeslie “Are you really going to ignore that blatant outward and vocal hate, violence, and disapproval of transgender fosters depression and suicidal thoughts?” Doesn’t the left do all those things to Republicans? How many times have I heard that anyone that doesn’t denounce Trump is a racist, a Nazi, threats to democracy, etc, etc, etc? Look at what has been going on with Nancy Mace. She dared to push for keeping transgender persons out of the bathrooms that don’t align with their biological sex. She and her staff have received death threats over this and she was just attacked in the House office building. Yet you don’t see Republicans or other Trump supporters melting down and committing suicide. You don’t see Nancy Mace giving up because someone said something bad about her and offing herself.

The fact that you can say that bad language fosters depression and suicidal thoughts in trans people supports my claim that when it happens, those people were emotionally unstable to start with. Trans people have the highest suicide rate of any other sex/gender demographic.

Reality tells a different story than the one you are presenting. Hell, if outward and vocal hate, violence and disapproval was all that it took to cause suicide, I should have offed myself years ago.

@chyna So let me understand this: because someone is elbow deep in the trans world, I shouldn’t be able to voice an opinion on it? I shouldn’t be able to talk about how policies that were put in place to accommodate trans people are being abused to the detriment of women and girls?

Here’s a consideration: I don’t have to embrace the trans efforts. I have stated very clearly many, many times that if you want to transition to a different gender when you are an adult, have at it. I don’t care. But when you are asking me to accept all the bullshit policies that have happened because of everyone trying to coddle trans people, I don’t need to be elbow deep in the situation to have a very strong opinion. And what REALLY gets me is all this crap comes down to one simple thing: no one wants to upset the trans community. No one cares about how women feel. No one cares if women get hurt in sports. No one cares that a 14 year old girl was raped and sodomized because of the policies. And daring to question those policies is now considered hate speech and is unacceptable. Is that the world we live in?

@chyna We both have tried to have a conversation since we are not as familiar with these issues and other than telling us we don’t know as much as we think, fucking discuss it like adults.
We are hetero Christians in red states. Neither @seawulf575 nor myself have said we know everything ever.
We see some problems on the national and international scene, which we have mentioned- bathrooms and womens sports.
If we cant get answers, imagine all the others who truly give zero shits because they have no interest or people in their lives to whom this issue pertains.
Except children in bathrooms and girls in sports.
I simply dont understand why discussing issues YOU feel are important to so many are such a problem you cant have a reasonable discussion with mature adults and voters.
But hey if its NOT that important to, thats fine, too.
This is at least my 3rd attempt at fostering dialogue on this subject.

HAHAHAHAHAHA Your Christian outlook for non hetero Christians is for fire and brimstone…. and to die soon !

Hitching your wagon to @seawulf575 (who Hates HATES anyone that is not a right-wing extremist) shows you are crying VICTIM !

The victims are the LBGTQ+ that are committing suicide because of right winger views attitudes and pressures.

I’m an adult ! ! !

When I was 10 and in the the YMCA, I was Chaplin. Also at the. same time, I was the New Testament reader for my Presbyterian church, several times a year, my minister liked my voice and reading skills. I have been the Chaplin in many other groups over the last 50 years, I never contemned another person because of their race, religion, color, sexual orientation; because I was taught that I was Christianity !

Not FRIGHT WINGER

@Tropical_Willie Oh a Presby huh, neat.
I reject all of your namecalling and party usage. I’m straight up asking for the experts to school me/us instead of making accusations then retreating from a proper conversation. Nothing more or less.
As far as @seawulf575 Yep I like him, smart man. Just as I admire @jca2 for unvarnished truth as she sees it, and @JLeslie for being a good friend over the years. @jonsblond you have to admire her love for her family, which is quite evident in almost every thread.
Everyone has some quality to admire I think.
And ya know compromise and communication can actually change things.

SO SO SO I’m not a Christian in your bigoted view – - – so sorry for you !

Is because your pastor told you so ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

. . . so sorry for you !

You win the punctuation war, guy. Ha!

I’m not a member of your place of worship 1

. .. . . . your pastor told you so ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

All this emotion from conservatives, NOW, about protecting women. Hilarious!

You elected a sexual predator, to be POTUS, and I presume have no qualms with his cabinet nominees being sexual predators. Sexual predators, that will make, and enforce laws in this country. Laws that WILL hurt, and kill a LOT of women.
It’s not a hypothesis, it’s a fact.
“Whether they like it, or not.”

Let’s have a Civil conversation, about the MASSIVE double standard conservatives have?
Or will that just bring more anger?..

@MrGrimm888 Sooooo…..did we say something that was wrong during our protection of women? Are you scared because we are protecting women and girls? Why? Why do you hate women so?

You people are “protecting” women and children? From what? The likes of trump?
What exactly does this protection consist of, @seawulf?

@Dutchess_III Keep up with the conversation. @jonsblond Wanted to hijack this conversation and make it all about trans people. I have argued that the policies that are pushed by the trans community lead to danger to women and girls. They also relegate women and girls to second class citizens by making a mockery of women’s sports. Nobody cares how women or girls feel about letting biological men into the locker rooms, showers, and sporting events. In fact women and girls are punished if they dare to complain.

And it all comes back to the policies that trans people are willing to accept because, of course, we have to make sure they are comfortable and get whatever they want. Can’t tell them no, for God’s sake! But of course as soon as I start to push back on the policies, I’m suddenly some horrible ogre for hating trans people (which isn’t even the same thing). That claim is used to shut down any reasonable and rational discussion.

All I can come up with is that those that are so ready to avoid these discussions actually hate women and girls and have no problem putting them into danger…they just don’t want to actually come out and say it.

You go ahead and spin around with that useless line of thought. I’ll wait.
Eventually I hope you answer my question. How, exactly, does trump and cronies plan to protect women? Surely they have a concrete plan? What is it? Put all the molesters in jail? Oh, wait…

@Dutchess_III Yes, it all falls back to Trump. Why did all these policies get pushed in the first place? Oh yeah…Dems. Why did Scott Smith’s daughter’s rapist not get arrested? Oh yeah…Dems. Why did he get to go on to rape another girl? Oh yeah…Dems. All this crap started with Democrats. Why is it that all you can do is try to hold Trump accountable? Why can’t you actually admit the fault of the left?

And you didn’t question what Trump would to to protect women and girls, you asked what they needed protection from and From Trump was one of your proposed threats. So stop trying to dizzle your way out of it. You are a huge part of the problem when all you can do is to try making stupid points.

I did question what the molesters in charge plans to do to help women stay safe?
Can you tell me the plan?

^He doesn’t have any idea what he’s talking about, he’s just trolling….Logic left the thread long ago, some jellies are logic impaired, victims of Trump’s cult. We need to be aware of their fragility, and we will have to love them back to reality. No different, than any other victims of cults we recover…

We have to be careful with these fragile minds. They may attempt to harm themselves, IF they are ever capable of understanding what’s going on.
Let them wave their flags, and be mean to everyone.
We ALL know Trump won’t fulfill any of his promises to them, and part of the healing process is that they witness the failure, and work through it their own way…

Thank you @chyna. <3

@seawulf575 I mentioned my reasoning why I removed friends from my life if they voted for Trump. One of the many reasons is due to the hateful campaign he ran against the trans community. The majority of his ad money was spent attacking the trans community. I didn’t hijack anything. You responded to MY response with a bunch of bs. https://truthout.org/articles/republicans-spent-nearly-215m-on-tv-ads-attacking-trans-rights-this-election/

I, uh, don’t know if my mom (or Dad) ever voted in their lives.