Why does everyone hate on Wiccans?

I don’t hate, but some of it seems a little silly from the outside.

But hey, if it works for you – go for it :)

I can only comment on my own reaction to Wicca. I find some of the tenants attractive, and find the philosophy rather charming. But you lose me with the rituals – they seem incredibly silly (no offense intended).

In general, my guess would be ignorance on the part of the masses. I think most people think Wicca=witches=ugly hags doing evil deeds.

People hate what they fear. People fear what is unfamiliar.

the same reason people hate evolutionary biologists?

@syz: I agree with the first part.

Honestly, my hesitance to accept Wiccans right off the bat stems from high school When everyone was a witch for a week. Or at least it seemed that way. With a better understanding I’ve pretty much cleared up that prejudice, but I still kind of ‘screen’ people who tell me they practice Wicca to see if they’re serious or just playing the half-goth thing. You’d be surprised how many turn out to be doing it for attention. :(

Who hates evolutionary biologists!?!

Okay. I was (more or less) Wiccan from about 1990 to about 2005 and while I don’t hate on them, I can see why some people would think they’re annoying.

First off, it’s the fuzzy bunny thing. Nature is not a happy place all the time, pink of nose and paw. There is a rougher, survivalist side to it that I don’t think many Wiccans acknowledge. When they do, they tend to see that side only, too – and get all emo or vampire about it. There’s a balance.

Also, I hear just as much “The Goddess” talk from Wiccans as I hear “God” and “Jesus” talk from Christians. As in, “The Goddess doesn’t want us to fight,” or “The Goddess would never allow STDs to spread at a festival, so why should we wear condoms?” That is not good thinking, first, and second, Wiccans may not know themselves what the Goddess wants.

Wiccans (especially Poverty Wiccans) seem very self-centered. “We’re sooo bashed” and “We’re soooo poor” are refrains I hear too often. Even poor Christians find it within themselves to donate to the people who are less fortunate – I think that if there were more Wiccan charities, it would go a long way to making them look like an established, respectable religion.

Another thing about getting bashed. Most people, unless they’re pretty alternative, might not know that “witch” has another meaning nowadays. They might never have heard of Wicca at all. And anytime someone doesn’t make room for Wicca in a list of valid religions, or thinks they’re a little flaky, Wiccans are chomping at the bit to look like they’re being discriminated against or pooped on, when really, there are gentler ways of educating the public.

There are more and more, but I’ll close with the one that irks me the most. Wicca is not, as I often hear, some kind of unbroken tradition that extends back to stone age times, whose practitioners were tortured during the Inquisition – it dates to the 1950s and Gerald Gardiner, although they may draw spiritual inspiration from earlier times. And no, they can’t do things like in the movie “The Craft,” even though new Wiccans seem drawn to the religion because they think they can. They sometimes get very silly about this.

I was Wiccan, I went through some of this, and while it seemed right and appropriate at the time, when I look back, I am slightly embarrassed. What got me to look at Wicca critically was seeing how other Wiccans behaved, and realizing that people, upon hearing I was Wiccan, would expect me to have nothing but fluff between the ears because that’s what they got from Wiccans they had met. I still hold dear some of the principals, but I have grown past the need to invoke them in any Wiccanlike way – once you grasp the reasons behind the methods, sometimes the methods look as basic as the training wheels on a kindergartener’s bike. Good for beginners, and a stage that Wiccans go through, but there is way more waiting afterward.

@Lightlyseared, I would like to go on record as saying that some of my best friends are evolutionary biologists. Ok, that’s not true, but if I knew any evolutionary biologists, I am sure they would be among my very best friends.

@syz and PnT: That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about. Is drawing a circle and doing a spell any sillier than kneeling before a cross with a dead man on it and praying to him? I admit there are some aspects of some branches that seem ridiculous to me (I tend to avoid the rites involving nudity and sexuality as well as the idea that men are inferior and cannot be strong practitioners).

@laureth: Yes, it’s true that there are a lot of half-ass practitioners who run around in black velvet and spout all sorts of nonsense but there are also a lot of sensible practitioners who keep their heads down and practice their faith in as unobtrusive a way as possible. No one hears about these Wiccans, much as no one hears about the nice, sensible Christians who don’t force their religion on other people. As for the age of the religion, yes, it has had a name and been something resembling an official religion since the 50’s, but it incorporates many aspects of paganism that have been around for a long time. Even if this wasn’t true, why does the fact that it’s relatively new make it okay for people to make negative comments to me? Christianity was an illegal cult before it was acknowledged as a religion and it is now the most followed religion in the world.

But who acknowledged christianity,wasnt it a pagonist king who was baptised on his death bed?

@afghan: Considering damn near everyone in Europe was Pagan before Christianity became a religion, then, yeah, probably. :)

@Katawa: If more of the nice, sensible Christians spoke up, perhaps they would be thought-better-of. Same with the nice sensible Wiccans – if no one ever hears of them, the image left is the one of the flaky Vampire Goth Drama-lovin’ kind.

I think the point I was trying to make earlier, but only thought of a good way to say it just now, is: Wiccans seem to love drama. They especially love when they think they’re being actively hated-on or discriminated against (rather than dismissively patted on the head). It makes them feel important, because they like to believe they come from a long line of people burned and hung for their beliefs. That’s it—Wiccans seem proud to be outcasts.

@ Katawa: not any sillier, but “Wicca” has less historical tradition to legitimize its silliness. It’s generally a good idea to study old traditions and learn what we can from them, pre-Christian included. But to practice a 20th-century construction based loosely on beliefs from a far different time & place… just seems a little extra-pretendy.

If it’s any consolation, I feel the same about Mormonism.

Don’t take this as “hate,” it just doesn’t do it for me and you asked for our opinions! :)

@laureth: The loud obnoxious Wiccans love drama. Personally, I hate it. I hate that when a discussion about religion arises, I can’t offer anything without ridicule. I avoid telling people that I’m Wiccan because they cause a big ruckus and then make nasty or degrading comments. I don’t put certain bumperstickers on my car because I don’t want it to get keyed. I wear my pentacle under my clothes so people won’t see it. I try my hardest to avoid drama. The only reason I can ask this question on fluther is because no one here actually knows who I am. Yes, the loud obnoxious ones ruin it for the rest of us, but that wouldn’t stop someone from personally attacking me if I told them the faith I follow.

@PnT: There is a fair amount of tradition. Modern day Wicca stems from actual Pagan rituals and ideas practiced in Europe for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

I do respect the Wiccan Rede.
Just please don’t turn me into a newt!

@Astro: Haha, don’t worry, I don’t turn people into newts. That’s just mean. :)

There was an idea in the gay community that if all the gay people turned lavender for a day, then people would see just how many “normal” gay people there were. There are gay cashiers, gay cousins, gay policemen, gay managers and gay waitresses. All kinds of people are gay. However, when some mainstream people think about gay people, they remember only the loud drag queens at the gay pride parade, or the senator in the public bathroom at the airport. They remember the bad ones and think all gays are bad. But if they could only see how many “regular people” are gay, just for a day, perhaps it would make people think better things about gay people.

I think the same is true about Wiccans. By hiding your pentacle, you may be presenting yourself to people who do not know you’re Wiccan. Because they don’t “see” nice, normal people as being Wiccan, they remember the drama-llamas. And although you may have a very real need to hide, the hiding only adds to the reason that you feel you need to hide. Does that make sense?

It’s the first people out of any given closet (gay, broom, or whatever) that have the hardest time. But if everyone who was normal and Wiccan was able to be public about it, perhaps the image would change. It’s a kind of catch-22.

In my option, the reason so many people think Wicca is dumb, and\or stupid is because, in Catholic time, Christians went out of their way to insure that everyone hatted and feared them Pagans, so everyone would convert to Christianity. The is why the Devil looks and acts exactly like Pagan Lord, or Hunter, why fairy tales were told to scare children, rather then teach them, and why there was a massive flood that killed everything on the planet in the bible. Pagans have been telling that tale since people could write.
The other problem with the Wicca image is the fact that Hollywood got ahold of it, and I just don’t mean our Hollywood, I mean writers and storytellers of every generation for centuries. Wicca and Paganism is so full of potential for awesome stories, that it was a natural choice to use it, for example, Macbeth and the Three Witches. It has been a myth for the longest time, that Shakespeare was a Witch, that is why he used an actual spell in his play.
So when people hear the word “Wicca, or Witch.” Everything but a “normal person wearing a pentacle,” pops into their mind. Thanks to Macbeth, The Craft, Twilight, and many, many, MANY, other stories, no one can take it seriously.

I suppose you could say it is tradition to hate\fear Pagans\Wicca. It’s kind of like how people refused to vote for Obama, just because he was black. I kinda thought we were past the whole raciest thing, but clearly I was wrong, just like I thought we were past the whole ignorant religion thing… but clearly I was more wrong about that.
See: Focus On The Family and New Life Church.

I, too, used to call my self a witch, but now I believe more in the principals and theory of Paganism. I used to do the whole, get naked in the woods and call corners and what-not, but I guess I sorta just did what laureth said, and realized I didn’t need any of that. I only still practice a ritual of cleansing when I am about to do a Tarot reading for someone I truly, deeply, care about. I also still adamantly believe in the power of the Pentacle and Pentagram. I wear a Pentagram fashioned by my own hand from jasper near my home, and have a tattoo over my heart of a Pentacle.

Everyone? Not everyone. I have to say that generalities like that really irritate me because they represent exactly the same kind of thinking that the questioner is objecting to. I think maybe the real question is, “What is it about Wiccans that some people hate?” or “For those who hate Wiccans: what is the reason?”

I don’t hate Wiccans or followers of any other religion or spiritual practice. I have attended and participated in services, ceremonies, and rituals of Catholics, very many flavors of Protestants from high church to low, Jews, Buddhists, Pagans, Wiccans, and others, mostly at the invitation of friends. In all of them I see true believers, honest seekers, and people of faith, hope, and charity. I imagine that all practices also have their hypocrites and their lip-service-givers, but I think they are fewer in the fringe religions and nontraditional forms because there is no social advantage to belonging and there may even be a little risk; hence people tend to participate only if they are sincere.

I don’t believe in the doctrines of any of them, but I respect all of them.

Most people that hate on Wicca is just as it is said above: ignorance. Many people do not know or understand the meaning. Therefor they assume witches, magic, and devil worshipers. I used to be in the practice myself, but later left it not because of Wicca itself but because I decided to stand agnostic and open minded. I don’t like to be tied down by one belief. I also do not think people should hate on you and your beliefs just because they don’t know anything about it.

No hate here. I view practicioners of Wicca just like I view followers of any
religion—I don’t understand why, but as long no human or animal is being harmed…whatever.

@syz and PnT: That’s the kind of thing I’m talking about. Is drawing a circle and doing a spell any sillier than kneeling before a cross with a dead man on it and praying to him? I admit there are some aspects of some branches that seem ridiculous to me (I tend to avoid the rites involving nudity and sexuality as well as the idea that men are inferior and cannot be strong practitioners).

I would hardly equate calling rituals “silly” with “hate”. And please note, you did not ask my opinion on other forms of religion and their own rituals.

I’m not big on rituals, or special clothes and the like in any aspect of life. I certainly don’t hate Wiccans, but it does strike me as a little silly (as does the Pope wearing a pointy hat).

Katawa- first of all, good for you for asking a legit question, rather than an irritating “how can we prove that the Drawing Down the Moon Ritual really invokes Goddess” or some similar whiny crap that other religions seem to bicker about so prevalently on this site.

Your question is about acceptance and societal bias, and I’ll buy that.

As to the correlation between Mormonism and Wicca being recent religious constructs; I’ve never experienced an attempted poselytization by a Wiccan practicioner (thank goodness gracious), and the traditions that wicca draws on predate the invention of the wheel.

However, I personally believe that Gardiner placed an emphasis on skyclad ritual because he wanted to look at naked chicks.

To answer the question: Fear of magic and prognostication is a western construct, drawing largely on sub-christian tradition. Heck, Y’shua (Jesus, for all you goys) was visited by sorcerers upon his birth, because they recognized his potential greatness. And he was great, but his “followers” screwed his teachings into a cocked hat, and hence, Christianity. Great things aren’t always “good” great things. Reference

Beside the proto-christian explanation, modern people run afoul of wiccans because, as laureth found, some are drawn by the cartoonish “hollywood” aspect, some are lonely and introverted and use the trappings of wicca as an attention-gaining device, and some believe that wicca will give them “power” over other people. On top of all ‘dat, some have found it necessary to form cliques, and exclude potential acolytes. (can you say “buzzkill?”)

Anyway, I’m getting a litle wordy here, and that ain’t my style. I will say, though, that I believe that the main problem with Wicca (lately) is that it has begun to take the flavor of an organized religion, and as such, is beginning to take on more of an aura of dogma than acceptance.

As an aside, I enjoy my pagan discussion group very, very much, and we were discussing this subject the other day (along with Classical mythology vs. Eleusinian tradition, the Festival of Set, and quantum mechanics. Oh, and the recent bigfoot hoax.)

Not trying to diss your beliefs in any way. As someone once said, it’s the thought form that counts anyway. ;^)

Sometimes people just fear the unknown.

No hate here! Blessed be!

All I can say is that I belong to the Unitarian Universalist Church and we love everybody, and we have all different faith backgrounds represented in our church. Our senior minister does an excellent job in preapring his talks each Sunday and helps give insight to how different faiths and belief systems originated and how they are represented today. I have learned so much about Wiccans (but not nearly as much as Laureth taught me today) and Jews and Christians and Muslims and so many more. So, nope, no Wiccan hate here.

i work with a woman who is a wiccan/pagan. i personally have nothing against the religions, and have been to their picnics and gatherings, like i would attend any party pretty much that i am invited to. to me, it’s cool that it’s nature based, and at one of the picnics i learned about how paganism started.

that said, this woman i work with who is wiccan/pagan “wears it on her sleeve.” she goes out of her way to talk about it, claim that if she feels insulted, the person who insulted her about whatever did so because she’s a pagan, she claims that people are against her because of her religion, almost to the point of paranoia (frankly, nobody thinks twice about it). she gets very upset and people end up rolling their eyes about it, because like i said, nobody even thinks of it until she throws it up at them. if she just wore her jewelry and were more dignified about it that might be a better way to make people more accepting.

@jca, I couldn’t agree with you more. But being offended has become something of a national pastime. It’s as if an amendment to the Constitution had been passed guaranteeing all citizens the right to be protected from offense of any kind by anyone—and the right to compensation if they do find something to be offended about.

jeruba: i agree and it’s almost like people are afraid to say anything.

I’m offended that they’re offended. Can I sue?

@Knot, make it a class action and I’ll join you.

Just be careful how you word the “class” part.

Reminds me of “how do you pronounce harassment?” :^)

As a practicing chaos magician of a number of years, I can tell you that in the occulture at large, wiccans are downed on because most just seem to want a christianity of their own, that allows for personal freedom. Along with the “I’m ok, you’re not ok (because you’re not a wiccan)” that MOST have, even their rituals seem more like playing make believe. Being to quite a few of these different rituals over the years with different groups, is mostly the same montone “oh… great goddess… send your blessing…” that would make a catholic priest yell “Emote!”. I think that most of these people are genuinely lost and are trying to find somewhere to belong, with a lot of people moving on because it didn’t fit.

The only problem is that lost people like to really announce what their beliefs are, thinking that if other people get it and are converted that it might be the way for them too. So, once they do move on or settle in, you don’t hear about it.

I think that, and holding to a fictionalized history of Wicca and the “Burning Times” it’s what gets most people that the white-light-fluffy stuff doesn’t.

Could be because Wicca is so open. What I mean to say is there is really no cannon or rules. Wiccans can practice almost however they want, and most Wiccans don’t follow the same beliefs as other Wiccans. Most of the religions in the world that have lasted and thrived for so long have a cannon, or strict set of rules. So, people seem to expect that. For many it is hard to except any form of freedom. If they are not given a small series of choices or very set rules they cannot function properly.

@Just_some_guy: Actually, there is a more set canon rules than a lot of people seem to think. Wicca is just like any other religion where you have the extremely devout practitioners think fundamentalist Christian or Orthodox Jew and the casual observers, like myself. Also, I think many people think Wicca has almost no rules because no one talks about them. I certainly don’t talk about my beliefs or what rules and rituals I observe because I would face ridicule. I can see how many people would think that Wicca lacks discipline and rules though. :)

Even many Wiccans think that Wicca lacks rules. “You can believe whatever your heart leads you to believe” sort of thing. Of course, the hardline Wiccans say that the looser Wiccans aren’t really Wiccans, and the fuzzy bunny Wiccans say that the Gardnerian-types aren’t true to the Wiccan spirit, either. See? :) It’s just like so many other religions.

Grr hardline Wiccans suck. To tell someone they cannot be a Wiccan because they were not in this or that coven or with these specific people irks me. Don’t let those people who are in those groups wright books about it if you don’t want to share. I thought the idea was to spread the religion anyway.

I do not mean to offend anyone in any way, but it’s the Wiccans that hate us. Every Wiccan that I’ve met has been rude to me, in fact I had some high priestesses tell me off because I was interested in their religion. Let me emphasize the WAS interested in their religion.