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Hawaiiguy's avatar

If Jesus was Jewish and changed to Christianity...

Asked by Hawaiiguy (316points) September 13th, 2007 from iPhone

shouldn’t everyone question his(and his pops) judgement?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

17 Answers

xgunther's avatar

I don’t think he changed to Christianity. Christian faith was formed after he died and the bible was published.

gailcalled's avatar

Jesus was crucified and died a Jew. The legend grew after his death; the bible wasn’t a single-author best seller, either. Just reread the Four Gospels for the POVs of four different writers, and never mind the translation issues.

ava's avatar

This is all true, Jesus died a Jew. Knowing this, do you still want to question peoples judgement?

Hawaiiguy's avatar

ah, that makes it even more confusing

SquirrelEStuff's avatar

I have been reading alot lately about how Jesus was a personification of the sun, like many other religions “gods”. Go to google video and watch a documentary called Zeitgeist. It is a three part documentary, the first being about religions. It explains the astrotheology of religions.

Hawaiiguy's avatar

that sounds interesting, I like astro theories and find them much more interesting. I like the Japanese belief of the sun and moon being father/ mother, mother/chlild. The respect/fear of the elements makes sense as far as origons and planetary beings go.

gailcalled's avatar

@Hawaiiguy; I am confused about what you are confused about. Religious belief systems are found in every culture; the trappings are different but the questions about the unknown and unanswerable are the same. Remember THE GODS MUST BE CRAZY? “review”: The aborigines worshiped a coke bottle that had fallen from an airplane. Why not?

Being Jewish simplifies things for me. No one knows what happens after death; therefore, we are enjoined to live the most generous, loving, honest and best life we can.

hossman's avatar

“Christianity” was not used as a term until well after Christ was crucified. Originally, His followers referred to themselves as “the Way.” What you call it really isn’t important. chris6137, I’m not sure what you mean by “Jesus was a personification of the sun.” If you mean Jesus was just a legend, there is very little question any more that as a matter of history, Jesus the man did exist, the questions are whether he was also divine. If you adhere to the text of the Bible, Christ the Divine, before he was Incarnate in flesh, preexisted the sun (see Genesis 1 and John 1) thus he could not be a personification of the sun. Probably too much is made of the repetition in the Bible of referring to Christ as “the Light.” This is intended to be a metaphor that Christ dispels the insecure “dark” and illuminates our perception of truth, and not intended that Christ is a personification of the Sun.

Jesus was a Jew. Paul repeatedly refers to himself as a “Jew of Jews.” All of the disciples were Jews. What we now call Christianity was a development of Judaism, adding Christ’s message to Judaism (and to some degree replacing judgment by adherence to Judaic law with salvation by faith and redemption). As even Mohammed recognized, there really can be no understanding of Christianity and Islam without some understanding of Judaism.

Since I am not as familiar with Judaism as some other religions, I’m not sure what gailcalled means by “no one knows what happens after death.” Do you mean this is a matter of faith, not perception? Because my admittedly limited understanding of Jewish theology is that Judaism does include an afterlife, although I have seen a few rabbinical descriptions of the afterlife that seem a bit odd to me.

I wouldn’t question Jesus’ judgment. Even if you don’t believe he was divine, if he was just a man who died a horrible death because he believed he was saving others from eternal punishment, you have to appreciate his sacrifice. I’m not sure I could find it in me to do the same for all of us.

And if I was offensensitive, referring to the religion practiced by more people than any other in the world as a “legend” or referring to its Deity as “pop” and questioning the judgment of its Deity, might be viewed by a significant number of people as offensive. I’m a bit more thickskinned than that. I don’t believe any true Deity really needs its Creation to defend It. It is a small deity that relies on man. God help us if He needs (as opposed to wants) my help.

SquirrelEStuff's avatar

@hossman do me a favor and watch zeitgeist and tell me what you think. I think the religion part is about a half hour long. The movies official website lists its sources. Most ancient cultures knew their religions were mythical, share many characteristics and dates as Christianity, all of which have to do with the solstices, constellations and positions of the sun.

hossman's avatar

chris6137, from your description of zeitgeist, I’m pretty sure it is no different from a number of academic sources I studied in order to teach comparative religion (I’m now teaching a series on Islam and Christianity). As I am about to begin teaching 5 classes in another content area, I’m not going to have the time for your request. Basically, the argument goes, all religions simply incorporate the same elements into a mythos, thus all religions are simply reflections of man’s attempt to answer the great questions, thus no religion could be the Truth, but are varying approaches to understanding the Question. The point that is frequently missed is that, yes, SOME cultures, ancient and modern, approach their religious needs through the use of myths that many members of the culture freely admit are probably fictional. That is entirely different than many other cultures and religions, including Islam, Christianity and Judaism, that believe in a living Deity or Deities, and do not believe their religion is a myth, but rather a truthful account of reality. While some people might point to commonalities between religions and thus conclude none of the religions are truthful or “real” (for lack of a better term), that is based upon a logical fallacy, the assumption that similarities between any two belief systems casts doubt upon the veracity of either. It is just as logically accurate to assume that these similarities arise because one of these belief systems is true and over time the others have copied some of those truths in an effort to make the other belief system appear more truthful. I see no rational link between the dates in a religion’s calendar and the belief system itself. Of course, most cultures share calendars linked to the growing season, anything else in an agricultural society would be less useful.

chris6137, you seem to whipsaw between almost fanatical (in the sense of “extremely committed,” not “extremely nuts”) allegiance to certain sources. I conclude that you are searching for something to satisfy a need. I find it curious you appear to discount major religion, but have an almost religious fervor for Ron Paul. Nothing is wrong with any of this, but if I can offer a word of advice, intended in the nicest way, keep in mind that life itself, philosophy, religion, all the great questions, are usually better approached as a marathon and not a sprint. My concern for you is that you not become either jaded or disappointed. Fervor is great, but without matching long-term study, it can quickly flare out.

hossman's avatar

Returning to the original question, why would a conversion in religion cause anyone’s judgment to be questioned? I’d suggest it shows considerable thought and judgment to make that radical a change in your belief system. Methinks this question is not only provocative (which is OK), but intended to be insulting to either Judaism or Christianity (which is not).

SquirrelEStuff's avatar

One of the best reasons I like fluther, since majority of the questions asked on this website could be found with some research online, is the fact that it involves discussion. I am very open minded, and take every day to learn as much as possible Hossman, and appreciate this website bc it has well eduated people like yourself. I was brought up Catholic, my father is now Christian, and I have a Jewish girlfriend. I have no belief or understanding of religion now (even after MANY conversations and arguments with my father and other Christians), and after watching that video and doing some, not alot bc I am not too interested in religion at this time, Zeitgeist has made the most sense of religion that I have heard. Jesus shares many characteristics with the Egyptian sun god, Horus.
I do not think I know everything and like posting my readings and understanding of things to get a response to what other people know. I figure if I post the link to Zeitgeist, some people might respond on it. I do not trust everything I read or see on the internet, but there is alot of good information and ideas and understanding of some things on it, some of which people would never even to think of to research. But…. I do not trust ANYTHING I see or hear on TV, because these Corporations do not give a DAMN about me.

willbrawn's avatar

basically i believe there is one faith, Adam and Eve worshipped God. They had the law (commandments) and they followed them. The line continued people had children. Eventually kids fell away from there parents teachings. They would not follow the higher law so they were given a lesser law. The law of Moses given to him on the Mountain. Christ came, fulfilled the lesser law a brought a new law. Yes Christ was raised a Jew, those were his people. He was a jew because they are they only people that would kill there God at that time. Christ set in place the new law. he called the Twelve Apostles who went out and taught His teachings after He died. They were killed off and even called new Apostles when others left or were killed. Eventually they were all killed. I believe the Authority that Christ gave the twelve that they tried to keep alive was lost. People corrupted teachings. Not always because they had a motive but because they had no one to tell them otherwise. Someone then disagrees then starts there own church. The world fell into darkness, hence the Dark Ages. Christianity is Christ’s teachings, people have altered them. Christ has his way, gotta find out the truth for yourself. James 1:5 if any of ye lack wisdom let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally and upbraidth not and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering….

La_chica_gomela's avatar

Willbrawn, I’m not the kind of person who’s easily offended, but I have to take issue with your statement that Jesus, “was a jew because they are they only people that would kill there God at that time.”

The Jews DIDN’T kill Jesus. The ROMANS killed Jesus. Read the bible. It’s pretty clear.

willbrawn's avatar

@la chica gomela the Jews were the ones that disliked Christ. Pilot (misspelled) found no fault in Christ. The people (Jews) cried out to have him killed. They let a murderer go by the voice of the people. And crucified a innocent person.

La_chica_gomela's avatar

Jesus was a Jew, none of what you said changes the fact that the Romans killed him.

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