Do you believe that alcoholism is a disease?

For some, yes.

i believe it is a mental illness which is entirely controllable, as are many other things that are labeled “diseases”.

that being said, it’s a slow descent into alcoholism

To me a disease is say cancer, or AIDS. Alcoholism is not cancer or AIDS. People made a conscious choice to take that first drink, as well as the next one, and the next one, and all of the ones after that. No one chose to get cancer. Though they can choose to have sex which could lead to AIDS, it is completely out of their control after that point. Even if they decide not to have AIDS anymore, they’ll still have it. Whereas if someone decides (really decides) not to have another drink, their is nothing stopping them other than their will power and own mind.

I don’t, and I know I’m up against the “establishment” and prevailing thought on this issue.

I believe there are genetic factors that may predispose one to addictive behavior, but ultimately alcoholism is a behavior. The “disease” model functions as a crutch, removing personal responsibility from the equation.

I also disagree with the 12 Steps focus on “only a higher power can fix me” angle for the same reason.

I’m just throwing this in there:

A coal lung is not “less” of a diseases because the patient made a “willful” decision to work in a coal mine.

Alcoholism is one of the few addictions where the withdrawals can actually kill you.

We all overestimate the extent to which we have control over our behavior.

Just because you can control your drinking doesn’t mean other people can. You have no right to judge them or to make assumptions about what they are and are not capable of.

The reason alcoholism is viewed as a disease and treated as one by the medical community is because the disease model is used to develop treatments. Telling people to “just stop drinking” is not effective or productive in any way.

Its not a disease, which requires some foreign biological agent. But taking the point of view that our behavior is governed entirely by the physics of our brains and bodies, then it is certainly a condition. To say that you have no control over your actions is to say that there is a ‘you’ somewhere inside that is separate from your impulses. That little bit of ‘youness’ is arbitrarily defined, and the progression of science is inexorably shrinking its boundaries, leading me to assume that it does not exist. But it is quite possible for parts of the mind to be in conflict with its logical and emotional sections; this is at least as much the case from a reductionist standpoint as from one that accepts the existence of a self. In effect, then, everything is a physiological condition, but some of them simply happen to be in harmony with your ‘will’. So, if we accept the harmful ones, such as depression, to be medical conditions, then there is no reason to exclude alcoholism simply because it is an extension of a pleasurable activity. What this means on a practical level is that, insofar as this argument is concerned, there is no philosophical reason not to attempt chemical as well as psychological treatment for alcoholism.

Alcoholism IS a disease. It starts OUT as a behavior but, eventually, the alcohol chemically changes the brain and body such that, at that point, it becomes a disease. Most addictions start out as behavioral problems but, when the addiction involves a chemical substance, it soon progresses to a biochemical problem, i.e., a disease. It requires more then just “will” to quit.

“Predisposition” is a tricky concept, whether from our genes or from our environment. The psychologists have been debating this issue for a long time.

I’ve seen people addicted to many things that lack a chemical to make it addictive. Pot, alcohol, soda, video games. People with addictive personalities find something that gives them the illusion of comfort and happiness and refuse to give it up. It is an addiction, not a disease. The disease argument is merely a scapegoat to pass responsibility off elsewhere. I also do not agree with the 12 Steps Program because they put the idea that these people are diseased into their heads, and that they need the program to be “cured.”

Every person has the ability to overcome any addiction, but not everyone has the will power to do so.

So, are we defining dependency = disease?

@steelmarket , I’m not. I’m defining specific biochemical changes in the body as a disease. A child can be dependent on its mother and not have a disease. One brother can be dependent on another brother and not have a disease.

It is a preventable addiction. It is controllable except for the weak minded. because it is an addiction, your body can be dependant on it to such a point than you have to taper off in order to quit.

I can see that alcohol consumption (addiction or not) could, over time, trigger liver disease. Just like smoking can, over time, trigger lung cancer. But is smoking a disease?

Addictions are brain disorders, like other brain disorders. Perhaps they are not the same thing as diseases. However, even though they are disorders, it is very difficult to try to cope with them on your own. It is possible, but it can be made much easier if one takes proper medications and has proper psychological support.

With alcoholism, as far as I know, the medications are not very effective. For other brain disorders, there are much more effective medications. Often alcoholism is a co-morbidity with other brain disorders, such a bipolar disorder. With bipolar, alcohol is often used as a medication to deal with the problems, and this will lead to alcoholism.

Having this experience, and having heard that in many cases, alcohol is used to self-medicate for other reasons, such as bad relationships, and the like, I am of a mind to think that alcoholism is often a symptom of something else, and you can’t really treat it without treating that something else.

It is extraordinary to me how chemicals can have an enormous impact, not only on behavior, but on thoughts. I have felt my medications change my thoughts quite dramatically. I wouldn’t be surprised if alcohol works on the brain to change the thoughts of the alcoholic. It is a depressant, and when you’re depressed it’s hard to do anything. It is extremely difficult to lift yourself out of the pits.

Now to say someone chose to become an alcoholic might be true on the face of it, but I don’t think it’s true when you are using alcohol to treat something else. Similarly, just because some people can make it out of alcoholism on their own, doesn’t mean that everybody should. If we are compassionate, we’ll help. If we’re jerks, we won’t. Tough love is a bullshit response to these things. It just leads to suicide, or worse.

Now the notion of what is a disease and what isn’t is a big conflict in the medical community. Things constantly change, as definitions and understandings change. They used to call bipolar disorder a mental illness, but there is a movement afoot to reclassify it as a medical condition. The significance of this is that, as a medical condition, it will be paid for much more completely by insurance. Otherwise, it doesn’t change the treatment at all.

People seem to think that if there is some voluntary component involved in getting an addiction, those who are addicted should be able to take care of their problem on their own. These people don’t believe in mental illness. I used to not believe in mental illness, until I got one. I used my disbelief to actually make myself worse. The attitude that mental illnesses, including alcoholism, are not diseases, and therefore should be treated differently is off the mark. Usually it comes from people who have not experienced any problems like this, or if they have, they have managed to treat themselves. Most people can’t treat themselves. Self-treatment would be like trying to sew up a wound without a needle.

Alcoholism, whether you call it a disease or not, needs to be treated by experts. It is a mental illness, and deserves everyone’s compassion.

For the sake of clarity, and inspired by daloon, I would add that even an addiction that is based purely on habit is no different from a chemical addiction, as they are all rooted in the structure of the brain. The physical causes of habitual addictions simply appear, and perhaps are, much more complicated than those of chemical addictions, given our limited understanding of the brain, and are less susceptible to outside chemical intervention. For these reasons, the best hope of a cure is currently to have the brain fix itself through the imprecise but effective channels of psychology. However, the line between the two types of addiction is fuzzy at best, and there is no reason to regard them as separate save for the practical need to guard against excessive behavior modification.

Alcoholism is a disease but it’s the only the disease you can get yelled at for having.

“Damnit Otto you’re an alcoholic.” “Damnit Otto you have lupus.”

One of these doesn’t sound right.

-Mitch Hedberg

I think that alcoholism itself isn’t a disease, but I think some people are prone to mental health issues which perpetuate the drinking cycle (or other addictions) and mental health issues ARE a disease.

Do we all agree that crack makes you addicted very quickly? That there’s an actual chemical change in the body which makes the body crave crack once you use it?
Sure, it starts out as choice but once the person is chemically addicted, he no longer has the free will to stop. The differing opinions stem from the fact that there is psychological addiction to things which is different then the CHEMICAL addiction. There’s even a psychological addiction to alcohol (in the early stages, before the body undergoes the biochemical changes). Once the body undergoes the chemical addiction, it is a physiological change and, as such, a disease. The addicted alcoholic shouldn’t be confused with the neighborhood party-guy who likes to drink and can stop anytime.

Does it really make any bit of difference? Call it what you like, but realize that some people are powerless to stop without help. As a long-time nicotine addict, I haven’t even been able to stop with help.

@adreamofautumn I very much resent that. I have anxiety and my girlfriend is dyslexic. Suddenly we’re diseased? Mental health issues are not diseases, they are disorders.

@augustian I do fully agree with you. These people do need help. But it seems that the only ones who call it a disease are the ones who don’t want to help themselves.

@EnzoX24

I think this whole thread is moving away from what the OQ meant to personal definitions.

you’re making it sound like “rodent with rabies”

I think that once you need it to function is when it’s a problem. If you were to give it up, even for as little as a week, would you suffer from withdrawal? If the answer is yes, then that’s not good.

for some people, yes. i mean, a lot of people’s lives have been completely screwed up because of alcoholism, and i’m pretty sure that if it was just a “i don’t want to do this anymore” simple choice and they could just stop like that they would. some people just label themselves as having the disease of alcoholism to excuse their behavior and get sympathy, but i certainly believe that it is a disease – though it is willingly acquired in most cases.

Another way we know that addiction is a disease is the fact that crack addicted mothers and alcoholic mothers have addicted newborn babies. Surely no one will say these babies can’t overcome their addiction because they’re “weak minded” and surely the mother did NOT just pass a behavior to the newborn.

@Mr_M Excellent point.

Yes

@loser You have a disease? D:
Kidding I am really mean.

Anyways, I have had BAD experiences in the family with this. I consider it a disease.

It’s all in their heads. I think calling it a disease perpetuates it… prevents them from facing the facts and changing their mindset because… after all.. it’s a disease.. it needs to be cured right?

YES. A terrible disease.

Absolutely, it is a disease.

I believe it is a mental, physical and spiritual disease. I think 12 Step programs help because of the power of a group dynamic. But I agree that ultimately the individual must make the decision to stop. And AA dwells heavily on personal accountability, not the “I drank because my friend did, my boss drove me to it, my spouse makes me crazy, etc. etc. etc” mentality. I think the spirituality of the program can be offputting to some, but it is spirituality not religiosity, big difference. The higher power can be the group, yourself, whatever or whomever works for you. Some people need a god figure for this some don’t.

I haven’t read any other responses, I just want to throw my opinion out there… It’s not the drug, it’s the person. I do a few drugs.. including the “super addicting” white lady ( but have plenty of control over when and how much I do… ) People just have no moderation or self-control, nor self-respect.

I am predisposed to alcoholism. Runs in my family. Might be genetic, might be a behavior, I’m still not convinced one way or another. One brother is a lousy drunk (drinks nearly constantly), the other is a teetotaler (doesn’t drink at all). I drink on occasion. I can control the behavior. I used to drink heavily, gave it up when I got tired of waking up feeling like shit.

So now I only drink a few times a year, and when I drink, it’s only beer, never the hard stuff, and the only beer I will touch is a local brand of micro brew. The reasons why are too convoluted to go into here, but let me finish by saying, if you knew what was in the mass produced swill that most people drink, you’d understand why I only use it to kill slugs in my garden. I’d never drink the crap.

@rooeytoo: the “higher power” can’t be yourself, that’s the whole point of “I am powerless.”

@ Dave – The higher power can be yourself, the god within so to speak. The admission of powerlessness is over alcohol. Some people do become adamant about the higher power, just like some converts to a religion become fanatical, but there are a lot of atheists in AA. A good meeting caters to all who come and want to beat their problem. But it is made up of individuals and I have found there are a lot of rigid people all over the world, therefore some in AA too. Most AA winners will tell you to “meeting shop” until you find one that feels like home, they are all different. It is always said at meetings, “Take what you like and leave the rest” meaning don’t stop coming because someone says something you don’t like. It really is a good program, has helped millions over the years.

If it’s not alcohol it will be drugs. If it’s not drugs it will be sex. If it’s not sex it will be cigarettes. If it’s not cigarettes it will be bullfighting.

It doesn’t matter what it is. If you can walk away from one addiction you can walk away from any of them. I gave up smokes two years ago (jonsblond is going on almost six). We both did it cold turkey.

I’ve never heard of someone walking away from aids or cancer cold turkey.

It’s all in your head.

@Blondesjon: Have you any idea how rare it is to be able to walk away from cigarettes? Somewhere around 3.5% are able to quit for more than three months, nationally, as of a decade ago. There’s really no reason to believe that changed since then. If you make $75K or more, the quit rate for more than three months is up to almost 6%.

Of course, this does not count people who relapse after three months.

For the vast majority of people, it is extremely difficult to quit, even with help. Raising the price of cigarettes seems to help, or paying people to quit also does. The patches and other drugs seem to have indifferent success at best.

Generalizing from a single case (yours) is not a good way of making policy. Addictions are serious disorders, and need serious treatment, not just “tough love.”

@daloon…What are the odds of two people, in the same household, being able to do it?

I did a seven week stint at a rehab clinic in my teens and do you know that serious treatment begins only after you decide that you really want to quit.

All I read in your last post was that it’s so hard and the odds are so against success that there is no real reason to try.

If treatment and a 12 step program help you do it great. If drugs or a patch work, awesome. If “tough love” (whatever that means) is the ticket than so be it.

Quitting before you start? Sounds like a copout to me…

For the record, if you want to smoke or drink or do drugs that is your choice and I have no say in the matter.

I say likening addiction to disease is giving yourself a reason to fail.

@Blondesjon: In my experience, and from what the various mental health professionals I’ve talked to have said, if you blame the victim, they’ll blame themselves for being weak, and they’ll believe they can never quit, or get better, depending on what we’re talking about. It is not quitting before you start to relieve people of the blame for being in trouble. In fact, it is just the opposite. It lays the groundwork for people to forgive themselves, which actually makes it possible for them to quit.

I’m afraid we see this in two very different ways, probably arising out of two very different experiences, and we’ll never agree.

BTW, having two people quit in the same household is probably quite likely. In fact, I’d bet that, among quitters, most of them live with or near another quitter. Support, after all, works wonders. But, oh, you don’t believe that. Don’t support people. Blame them. Gotcha. I surely hope you never get mentally ill, because you will screw yourself, if you do, trying to will your way to health. That dog don’t hunt.

@daloon…passive/aggressive doesn’t work on me…doesn’t appear to work real well for you either

@daloon <—- doesn’t understand @Blondesjon‘s last post.

@Blondesjon
Your statement-“I say likening addiction to disease is giving yourself a reason to fail.” is obviously not from experience. And saying that continuing to be addicted is an accepted option is like saying your death sentence is okay. Because if you are an actual alcoholic/addict there are 3 options- Jails, Institutions and Death. As a recovered addict/alcoholic of many years I can tell you that the concept of a disease is not an excuse to drink or use but a means OUT OF ACTIVE ADDICTION/ALCOHOLISM. If you want to cure a malady you first have to understand the nature of the malady. The founders of AA founded a method that worked at a time when the chronic alcoholic was given up as beyond hope and relegated to insane asylums. To accept that you have a disease is a recognition above all that you are powerless over a substance and that is the beginninmg of true power of choice because you realize that one is too many and a thousand never enough. It is not a simple recognition or awareness that you come to. You realize that you are going to DIE if you don’t. The courage of the admission is the foundation of hope and only the beginning. Only a non alcoholic/addict sees it as an excuse.
I have been to hell and I’m not going back.

@SeventhSense…I’ve done two seven week stints in rehab. Once as a teen and once as an adult. It was during these times and my times spent in aftercare and at AA/NA meetings that I developed my opinions. If believing what you do do works for you that is all that matters isn’t it? Why should you care what I say? Remember: Trying to control everything is one of the symptoms of your disease. Let go and let God my friend. I myself am not a bad person trying to get well, but a sick person trying to get well. Instead of censoring me, help me to live and grow.

@Blondesjon
You would be best to apply the principles that were offered to you then. If you went to treatment and then had to go back, obviously something didn’t work for you. Ask yourself if it could be your understanding of the principles which would make all the difference. It seems to me that you’re still swimming in that river in Egypt my friend.
Peace

You can only work your program my friend. Best of luck.

I have been described as a “functional alcoholic” I have absolutely no problem functioning in the day to day world but I “need” a drink when I’m not there…sad but that’s the way it stands. I can’t believe I’m sharing this, but I’m taking a chance…I know that alcohol won’t solve my problems…but it damn sure makes it easier to not worry about them.

@FGS so…and I might be totally off the mark here… but do you mean when you go home and you are alone? or are you not alone?

@lynneblundell Do you know the song “I drink alone”? Yeah, that’s me.

I don’t know it…but I drink alone too…

No I don’t. I believe it’s an addiction, more of a mental disorder or predisposition.

“Disease” is often difficult to define because it can be used in many instances and apply. A person can be a “disease” to you if they are affecting you physically and/or emotionally in a bad way. Alcoholism is certainly a disease in many ways. If you have a predisposition because of the extent of abuse in immediate family, you are more likely to be become an alcoholic if you use. It is a physical disease because you feel you need it when you really do not. Alcohol is not a necessity to living. So therefore, if you use continuously and cannot shake it, it is a disease. It is also a mental disease because you think that you need it far often than not and you may find yourself wanting to drink.
Even people who do not drink often, but when they do they binge drink, is a problem because that is what they think is “normal” drinking. If you cannot drink 1–2 beverages and be alright with not drinking more, you are more prone to have a problem with alcohol in the future.

People often think it is a problem once you start drinking alone. This is bad, but many people will only drink in a social setting because it is socially acceptable. But, if youre abusing it every time you are in these situations, it can lead to more problems. Say, for example, you lose a close social network where you once abused alcohol with, you may find yourself drinking by yourself later on to try and get the same feelings you once felt…it leads you down the wrong path. Nothing good comes out of alcohol. As a matter of fact, alcohol is rated the worst drug by many clinitians worldwide, worse than drugs such as heroin and meth

As someone who has alcoholic tendencies and adddictive personalities running on both sides of the family, I tend to see it as something that can’t be controlled by yourself. (My mother and grandmother were both abused (mostly verbally, not that that excuses it) by drunks; both my aunts struggle with alcohol; my dad only recently gave up smoking, my grandpa is a “functioning” drunk, etc.)

My family (especially my mom’s side) is known to all to be pig-headed and stubborn to the point of irrationality, so I think if there was a way to “overcome” alcoholism, they would have discovered it. (Although there is the point that some of them didn’t want to overcome the alcoholism, but used it as a retreat from the world.)

Wikipedia defines a disease as “an abnormal condition of an organism that impairs bodily functions, associated with specific symptoms and signs. It may be caused by external factors, such as invading organisms, or it may be caused by internal dysfunctions, such as autoimmune diseases.”

I think that alcohol could definitely be one of those “external factors”, while the predisposition towards alcoholism and addictive personalities is definitely an “internal dysfunction”. And alcoholism is definitely an “abnormal condition” that “impairs bodily functions”.

In some situations, it might be possible for a person to go cold turkey. It worked for my dad, but that’s because he was scared (nearly to death) of being unable to breathe due to pneumonia and smoking.

As for me, I will stay away from the more dangerous addictive things, so that my potentially addictive personality won’t kick in. Dadgummit! Why can’t I be addicted to exercise?? :D

No it is not. By convention, disease is a malfunction or disorder caused by a micro organism or genetic defect. Alcoholism is a result of addiction. Addiction occurs when certain chemical receptors in the brain are “activated” and then never stop “seeking” the chemical that activated them. Alchohol has this capability. So does nicotine. Etc. Alcoholism started being called a disease in order to take away the stigma of addiction, and to focus on treatment rather than social condemnation of the alcoholic as weak of will. However, a rose by any other name is still a rose. Having said that, a true addiction transcends a normal human beings ability to defeat it by an act of will in most cases. Once the receptor is on, it is always on. Depending on the chemical, one may or may not be able to suppress the urge to hit the receptor. Alchohol and nicotine, it can be done. Crystal meth and crack cocaine rarely, if ever.

Alcoholism is a mental, spiritual and physical disease.

The world’s most successful alcoholic recovery program is based on the belief that alcoholism is not a disease (http://www.soberforever.net/researchdisease2003.cfm) and most physicians in the United States reject the disease theory of alcoholism.

Since AA is an anonymous organization the statistics on how many have successfully recovered would be very difficult to ascertain. And since soberforever kindly offers financing for recovery with their program, I am sure their body count would be impressive so as to entice new patients.

That said, I don’t give a damn how you recover, there is no right or wrong way to recover and I have serious doubts about any organization that would make such a claim. However as I said, if it works for you, then do it.

Personally I am very grateful to AA, it sure helped me get my non-disease under control one day at a time.

The success rate of the soberforever (St. Jude Program) is calculated and verified by independently organizations as about 64%. Alcoholics Anonymous World Services has conducted several studies and concludes that its success rate many be as high as five percent (5%). An advantage of AA is that it is free. However, researchers usually report that about 30% of alcoholics are able to recover on their own. The National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism reports that 39% of alcoholics in the US are in what it calls full recovery (that is they are now either abstainers or low-risk drinkers). Most presumably recovered on their own. See http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/controversies/1109212610.html

As I said, it isn’t worth even discussing. Any recovery is a great one, I don’t care how you do it. I am simply suspect of “cure” figures put out by a pay for the cure program. And there is no such thing as stats that can’t be manipulated.

But be my guest, you pay to go to your club and listen to their beliefs on what it is and isn’t and I’ll go to AA and just heal, okey dokey???!!!

Most physicians in the US reject the belief that alcoholism is a disease: Mignon, S. I. Physicians’ Perceptions of Alcoholics—The Disease Concept Reconsidered. Alcoholism Treatment Quarterly, 1996, 14(4), 33–45. doi:10.1300/J020V14N04_02

Well…I’ve never heard of, say, heron addiction or cocaine addiction defined as a “disease,” only as a “habit.” I wonder why alcohol would be any different.

IMO, anyone can become addicted anything that they use often enough, genetics aside.

People have tried unsuccessfully for over 100 years to treat alcoholism as a disease. Alleged “cures” have included the so-called “Gold Cure” of Dr. Leslie Keeley, whose secret formula, including a gold salt, was popular from about 1890 into the 1920’s. Grape-Nuts cereal was advertised in its early years as an aid to achieving and maintaining sobriety. Currently, powered cudzu vine root is being touted (and marketed) as a cure. Anabuse has been used for almost 50 years with no evidence that it is effective in “curing” the disease. Nutrition, vitamins and numerous other “cures” have been attempted with no success. http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/FunFacts/HealthAndSafety.html
Recommended reading: Herbert Fingarette’s book “Heavy Drinking: The Myth of Alcoholism as a Disease.”

Yes, looking at all the alcoholics trying to get a grip but in vain.