General Question

Kevisaurus's avatar

How would someone adapt to a q/a website with little or no moderation to one that is extensively modified?

Asked by Kevisaurus (287points) March 23rd, 2009

For example all the people from wis.dm who are trying to adapt to fluther. How are they coping in your opinion?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

197 Answers

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

By being super pissed off about the moderation and um——changing.

I don’t know. I’m adapting. Maybe.

asmonet's avatar

Okay, they seem to as a whole to have started understanding this is not their old home, some are fitting in, others are throwing fits. C’est la vie.

This isn’t new, the same thing happened before, Things settle.
They just need to really to remember, the mods aren’t paid and they’re just like you – a member who can make mistakes, and they only respond to things that YOUR PEERS have flagged. From what I understand it’s rare that a mod removes something of their own accord as questions that blatantly disregard the guidelines are easiest to mod and are few and far between.

You should never be pissed at the mods, if anything be mad that you don’t fit in with others.

marinelife's avatar

When you lose your social networking home, it is hard. A little lashing out makes sense.

It’s coming into someone else’s house in a different culture. You are not, hopefully, going to laugh out loud at things they do differently from you.

You follow the cues, get your bearing, and then decide if you want to settle down there, or you are just too homesick.

Some people stay and some don’t. Give us a good try. Welcome, by the way, my dino friend.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@asmonet – be mad that you don’t fit in with others? is that a joke?

asmonet's avatar

Not really. :D

kenmc's avatar

I will miss asking whatever the hell I felt like, that’s for sure.

But this site has it’s positives. It’s much faster and not as clique-y.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@asmonet – that’s a really crappy attitude to have toward others.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – me too! but at least there seems to be less harassment. and the lack of division of questions makes it easier for me to answer them. wis.dm overwhelmed me with all the scenes to the point that I never went to any of them. I only answered questions from my friends.

kenmc's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2 I pretty much did the same thing. I did subscribe to a few scenes, though.

I will miss your random and silly questions. I really will.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – I know, man. I’m going to miss asking them! what am I going to do with the Young Huron? And Horus cat? and Sesame Street?!

asmonet's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2: I don’t know how you got any attitude I have towards others from that, merely an opinion on those who throw fits over moderation. Why the outright judgments?

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@asmonet – You said that if we’re upset about the moderation, we should instead be upset that we don’t fit in with others. That’s not a very welcoming attitude. That’s like saying all the people in the world who are different—a lot of us—should feel bad and angry or something.

I’m judging what you said by what you said and how you said it, not you.

kenmc's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2 I dunno… facebook?

But we’re going to get off topic! That’s a no-no here… >:-|

andrew's avatar

I’d wait to ask a question until I knew how things worked, and try to realize that bemoaning my old site wouldn’t help me adapt.

I’d also do a lot of spell checking, but hey, that’s just me.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@andrew – are you assuming we don’t know how to spell? or are you saying this place is crazy about spelling?

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – It seems OK on this question. Some people told me it’s OK on some questions to get off topic because well just because.

kenmc's avatar

@andrew This “bemoaning” is not unjustified.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@andrew

If you use Firefox, you’re set.

@please_not_to_ask2

lol @ the wishy-washyness of the “rules”.

kenmc's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2 Also, it’s Kev’s question, so he’ll be much less likely to be bothered by it…

Horus cat questions must live on! I say you should get exemption for those questions.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – I can ask a bunch of questions about how to get my cat to speak to me again, though I’m afraid that wouldn’t be considered a serious question. If I were to ask it, it would be in all seriousness as he’s not speaking to me due to the new dog, but I don’t know. I doubt it would be left alone.

shilolo's avatar

There’s an old saying, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do.” I don’t think the saying is “When in Rome, pretend like it’s Corsica.”

J0E's avatar

@andrew you really should try acting like the creator, not a snotty member…but hey, that’s just me.

kenmc's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2 I’ve never had a cat speak to me. I’m thoroughly jealous of you Doctress Dolittle :P

How’s the new puppy besides being all chewy.

@any moderator. The chat doesn’t work on my computer possibly due to my dialup connection. WTF??

shilolo's avatar

@J0E You guys sure know how to make friends and influence people. Complaining from day #1 surely isn’t a great way. It really isn’t our fault that your favored site went down. Try all you want, you won’t recreate wis.dm here.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@boots

You have dial-up? GTFO!

:)

J0E's avatar

@shilolo I’m not trying to create wis.dm here, and for your information I happen to like this site just fine. I just don’t appreciate Andrews tone towards us.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – Yes well, Horus and I have been through a lot. The puppy is doing well. He’s being very obnoxious and harassing the cats like a normal puppers, and well, I suppose that’s healthy. He’ll be going to the doctor soon-ish.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@shilolo – A few people here have been quite rude to some of us, myself included, but I am not sure I have a negative attitude toward the site. Thanks for lumping us all together. That’s a very welcoming attitude.

and you’re the one who hates vitamins! I’ve heard about you.

asmonet's avatar

@J0E: Way to be a jerk.

asmonet's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2: Would you mind turning your head slightly to the right?

J0E's avatar

@asmonet I’ve done no such thing.

shilolo's avatar

@J0E Andrew is a friendly, easy to get along with guy. It is my impression that the influx of bitter, complaining wis.dm users is really rubbing him the wrong way. We’ve really tried to bend over backwards towards you all, creating a special landing page and faq, discussing the site with you one-on-one, and so on. Yet, these attempts have been met with significant blow-back, and that isn’t cool.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@asmonet -Well, I’ve got no idea why you’d want me to.

J0E's avatar

@shilolo I totaly understand, and we appreciate it very much, I just think the creator should be able to keep his cool.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@asmonet

If you can’t see how andrew’s response was condescending, I don’t know anyone’s going to make you see it.

J0E's avatar

@asmonet I only returned the tone he gave out.

kenmc's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2 Worms? Well, hopefully the vet visit will go fine. Have you got a new phone yet?

@DanshhfieoheDk… I wish you wouldn’t have changed your name. And yes… Dialup. It’s quite lame. And I will not get the fuck out, thank you very much!

@asmonet You can trust me on this. J0E’s not a jerk. I’ve known him for years (irl) and he’s a pretty stand up fellow.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@boots

Yeah, I don’t know, I didn’t want to be called “DK” anymore because those aren’t really my initials; they’re just what I wanted to pretend my initials were. My initials are actually DDR. That’s why my cousin calls me “Dance Dance Revolution”.

asmonet's avatar

Guys, he’s a person, and so are the wis.dmers. He’s tried his best to help and so have the majority of Fluther’s members.

Everyone is gonna get annoyed when all they hear is this isn’t good enough, why are you so strict, why aren’t you like my beloved pet, why does your work suck so much and how else can I offend you personally for all the work you’ve put in?

Suck it up.

asmonet's avatar

@boots: That’s not the impression he’s made to some of us.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@asmonet

Do you find it ironic that you’re being just as sensitive as you’re accusing former wis.dm members as being?

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – Oh, no worms. He was given to us with fleas, though, so now we have to de-flea the entire house. Hmph.

I did get a new phone. And it won’t work! I have to go to the store and make the people make it work, or I am going to have a HUGE fit because I spent a lot of money on that I really don’t have, and just—hmph!

kenmc's avatar

@Dansedescygnes Well then where the hell did this new name come from??

@asmonet He’s just concerned. He follows the Golden Rule.

shilolo's avatar

@J0E Well, perhaps if some people would settle down, actually use the site and then perhaps come back with constructive comments, we would all be happier. This site will adapt and change, I can guarantee you that. Why would Andrew and Ben, not want to make things better? They absolutely do! We just ask that the bitterness and (frankly) whining subside a bit.

J0E's avatar

We all need to put ourselves in the others position, I totally understand how we are coming off but I think you need to understand us also, it’s a two way street.

asmonet's avatar

Not ironic, maybe if I’d started this way. As it is, certain new members have led me to annoyance. Some others, I’ve enjoyed greatly.

kenmc's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2 Fleas suck. Every time I hear that word I start itching…

You should invest in the insurance just in case. At least to keep a safe mind. I didn’t get that phone yet, but it should be soon. If you’d like a back up I could send you what would be my ‘old’ phone that works just as good as the day I got it.

kenmc's avatar

This question’s very active…

shilolo's avatar

@J0E I see your point, but, to have a happy little place like Fluther suddenly be inundated with new users (en mass) is one thing. To also have a small but vocal subset immediately set about bad-mouthing the place and complaining publicly how much it sucks crosses an invisible line of patience and understanding.

asmonet's avatar

It’s not really a two way street, that’s where you guys are getting confused. This is a new place, we didn’t invite you. So you should adapt to us, and we should be civil and give you a grace period, but we have no obligation to cater to whining and childish behaviors.

kenmc's avatar

This is also highly entertaining.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@boots

When I first came on Q&A sites, I was a member of AIROW.com back in ‘06. There my username was “Le Lac Des Cygnes” (though all as one word) meaning “The Lake of Swans” or “Swan Lake”, the ballet by Tchaikovsky. So this time I combined that with the letter “D” (because it’s my favorite letter and it’s a reference to DKdominic) to form the name of Scene #13 from Swan Lake, Dance of the Swans (Danse des Cygnes).

@shilolo

What is an example of any of us saying this site “sucks”?

J0E's avatar

I did start off on the wrong foot, and I am trying to amend that. I think my fellow wis.dmers can vouch for my normal behaviour.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – No, but thank you very much for the offer.

and yes, fleas suck. The poor puppy is always scratching and sad.

AlfredaPrufrock's avatar

@asmonet, rats, I missed! Did you have your wisdom teeth out today/yesterday?

kenmc's avatar

@Dansedescygnes I may call you DK every now and again, so be forewarned.

shilolo's avatar

@Dansedescygnes Many of those “questions” have been removed for poor quality, so I can’t link you. There are certainly a significant number of quips in many threads over the past two days that reflect exactly what I said. Feel free to scroll through some of the wis.dm related Qs and see what I mean.

J0E's avatar

@asmonet It is a two way street. Ask anyone dealing with a merger, it takes both parties to make it a smooth transition.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@boots

No, that’s fine. That was the whole point. I wanted people to call me that because I thought they were such cool initials even though I didn’t actually have them. I have a friend named Daniel Kazinsky and people call him “DK”. And I was jealous because I wanted to be called that…lol. So that’s what i got it from.

@shilolo

You can’t expect no one to have any criticisms. Do you have any idea how much wis.dm was criticized, the owners insulted, etc.? Because that definitely happened.

asmonet's avatar

@AlfredaPrufrock: Today! See avatar enlarged!

@J0E: Wtf, this isn’t a MERGER. You’re moving in, not combining services. The old is gone. Wake up.

kenmc's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2 Well if you do feel free to ask. Are you still going to say hi next time I’m in Georgia?

shilolo's avatar

@J0E. At least initially, if felt marginally like a hostile takeover, which is why so many people are up in arms. And in truth, it isn’t really a “merger” per se. Just clarifying the semantics.

J0E's avatar

I didn’t mean it like that. If someone moves in with you will you not help them?

asmonet's avatar

I would have invited them first.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – certainly, just call first, ya know?

J0E's avatar

That isn’t up to you.

asmonet's avatar

I’m pointing out that your comparison does not and can not apply.

kenmc's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2 I don’t have your number, but before I’m there I’lll try and get it. Most likely via fb now that wis.dm is going under.

asmonet's avatar

I said, since you’re here, we’ll be civil, but we won’t tolerate bullshit. We don’t suffer fools gladly.

kenmc's avatar

@asmonet We’re here. We’re (well, some of us) are queer. Get used to it.

J0E's avatar

Both my analogies worked fine, you’re just being stubborn.

asmonet's avatar

Then I feel bad for your powers of reasoning.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@boots – Yes, Facebook that shit.

shilolo's avatar

@asmonet. Settle down. We are trying hard to reconcile here. Let’s try to be civil.

asmonet's avatar

Meh, fine. I blame the Vicodin.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@asmonet – Vicodin makes you grumpy?

J0E's avatar

We will get along eventually.

shilolo's avatar

@J0E. I agree. I just wish that the uproar would die down some. My email is bursting at the seems.

J0E's avatar

We are all just Q&Aers at heart, eventually our “native lands” won’t matter.

asmonet's avatar

Surgery plus painkillers makes me give less of a shit what people think. :)

J0E's avatar

@shilolo Unfortunately uproar is inevitable in a situation like this, the best we can do is weather the storm.

kenmc's avatar

I think the biggest problem with the wis.dmers is that questions are easily banned and we’re not used to that.

asmonet's avatar

Seems or seams, shi?

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@asmonet – this has been made abundantly clear. I find vicodin makes me particularly grumpy, which is why I asked.

J0E's avatar

I love this live commenting!

3or4monsters's avatar

This is embarrassing to witness. We are guests in an already established, thriving community—- we are not “merging” or taking it over. We are a HERD of trolls, now. Did it ever occur to anyone that all the headbutting and unreasonable fighting might be uncomfortable or embarrassing to people formerly from wis.dm, who enjoy being here and are trying to integrate and make friends?

Setting things on fire, again. Sorry.

asmonet's avatar

@please_not_to_ask2: It makes me more carefree, and happy, grumpy only comes when others are harshing my mellow so to speak.

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@3or4monsters – They shouldn’t lump us all together. Just because we came from the same place does not mean we all carry the same attitude. And some of them are doing that. And some of us have been made to feel unwelcome.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@3or4monsters

We’re not really “guests”; we’re members now. A guest is not integrated. Once you become part of a site, you’re part of the site. That’s how I see at at least.

Excuse my quasi-Yogiism, there.

J0E's avatar

I will say this, I have felt very welcome here, besides in the chatroom.

shilolo's avatar

Getting back to the moderation issue, I realize it may seem foreign. But, (I hope) you will eventually come to embrace it. We really do just hover in the background (this situation not withstanding). Some of the “aggressive moderation” that some people might be experiencing is as much a lesson in how the site runs, rather than the norm.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@boots

Agreed. I keep bragging about this, but I was a moderator on AIROW. I deleted posts and banned users; the whole nine yards. But even the moderation there was more mild. So I definitely think that is the main reason why people are complaining.

asmonet's avatar

But how was the quality, eh?

please_not_to_ask2's avatar

@Dansedescygnes – I am very confused by the heavy moderation.

kenmc's avatar

@asmonet What are you referring to?

asmonet's avatar

Generally, if there is no @username applied, a quip refers to the post above it.

@please_not_to_ask2: See here.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@asmonet

Oh, we loved the quality. Seriously, we had a couple users who were seemingly schizophrenic so that complicated things. But the majority of the users there were satisfied with the moderation. The only time it got hairy was where there were flamewars that weren’t being moderated. But it’s all these little format things that were absent from AIROW moderation.

kenmc's avatar

@asmonet Ok. I didn’t know what. I’m still learning :-\

asmonet's avatar

@Dansedescygnes: Almost everyone on Fluther a week ago was satisfied with the moderation, very few had beefs with the mods or their actions specifically, and they did so behind the mod curtain – in private. We do not tolerate flame wars, the second a personal attacks is made it is removed, and the issue is abandoned. Some slight comments can get past occasionally, but for the most part, if it’s flagged it’s looked at, and I for one doubt the ratio of flags to actual moderation is very high at all. Maybe one of the mods could fill me in here?

@boots: I know, just letting you know. See? I can be nice, damn it!

asmonet's avatar

Basically it comes down to this, on Fluther we have discretion, when wis.dmers showed up the ones who were unhappy complained in the open, made unfavorable comparisons (I think unfairly) and judged every aspect of the site within the first few hours. It wasn’t nice, and it left a lot of us feeling invaded rather than feeling like we were meeting new friends – which is how we usually treat new members.

J0E's avatar

Kev is going to be surprised when he sees all these comments.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@asmonet

And the personal attack thing I agree with. I think some of the complaints though were that noninflammatory questions were deleted simply because the “formatting” was wrong…I don’t know, I saw that happen once. I don’t really know how common it is.

MacBean's avatar

@3or4monsters gets it. Hurrah! Well, we’ve got at least one wis.dm-er who will fit in and last. Lurve to you!

asmonet's avatar

@Dansedescygnes: It’s really not that common, that’s why we all begged that you look at GQ’s on the site and clicked around before posting willy-nilly. Because we didn’t want you to get hated on, and we didn’t want to be annoyed.

We gave lots of great easy advice and in many cases we were ignored.

Now, we’re irked. It’s gonna take time and effort on the part of the newbies to fix that, as for a lot of people an opinion is now formed.

That’s what I see anyway.
I’m trying to take it on a case by case basis, we’ll see how that goes.

kenmc's avatar

@asmonet @shilolo @andrew I’ve only had two complaints so far. Not really a personal attack.

I just wish the questions we could ask could be looser and the avatar’s bigger.

That’s all. And I feel like these are valid critiques (complaints isn’t even the right word) towards the site.

Maybe us wis.dmers could being something new to the site. I’m not saying change it into wis.dm, but help us both out and improve the quality of this site.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@MacBean

I still disagree with the notion that we are merely “guests”. I don’t know about the rest of them, but I’m a full-fledged member of this site now…

Anywho, I don’t really care who’s from where. Just don’t all get bent out of shape when you’re criticized. Like I said, wis.dm was criticized ALL THE TIME.

shilolo's avatar

@Dansedescygnes It isn’t primarily a format thing. Some of you think that, but it isn’t. Some questions are removed for being YES-NO questions, which isn’t suitable for Fluther. Others were removed for being vague, confusing, poorly worded, poorly spelled or lacking tags. Part of the moderator job is to act like a QC person. I know many of you think your questions are awesome as they are (at least they were on wis.dm), but, they don’t match up with the Fluther guidelines. Are we to just let them go, so as to be “friendly”? Then, later, many users will turn around and say, “But, but, you let question X through, why not mine?”

Finally, they aren’t permanently removed. They are just returned to you for editing. Now, if someone takes it personally and decides not to edit their Q, that is their prerogative. Lots of Qs over the past few days have been edited and returned, without fanfare.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@shilolo

The YES-NO thing is a formatting thing. I don’t mind removing vague, confusing, or poorly-worded. Today I tried over 10 different renditions of a question I was going to ask to try and make it non YES-NO. Mainly because I knew that people wouldn’t simply reply with “yes” or “no”, they would expand.

asmonet's avatar

@Dansedescygnes: Was it criticized all the time by a mass influx of new members within minutes of their joining? I doubt it.

@boots: But what you seem to not realize is there is a fiercely proud and very satisfied group much larger than yours on Fluther that doesn’t like those suggestions for the most part. write an e-mail to Andrew or Ben, but stop bringing it up on the site, it’s not ho we work.

shilolo's avatar

@boots I know that both Ben and Andrew have heard you. Perhaps the avatar thing will change (FYI, you can enlarge them, but it is a slapped together system). I doubt highly that the rules will be loosened to accommodate a regular influx of silly questions. Part of what has made Fluther profitable is the quality of the Qs. I imagine Ben and Andrew would like to keep it that way.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@asmonet

Why does it matter when it was criticized? There was a time on wis.dm when almost every user was complaining to the staff to implement a “block” feature; people threatening to leave if they didn’t, etc. It was pretty bitter.

J0E's avatar

I think in a few days we will all be fine, you have to understand how much wis.dm meant to all of us. It was much, much more than just a site. People married, dated, and had children from meeting on wis.dm. It was a way of life and life itself to some.

asmonet's avatar

@Dansedescygnes: Which is an emotion we generally don’t foster here. It matters because that’s what is happening here, a mass exodus, and a bratty one at that. :-/

J0E's avatar

@asmonet Calling names won’t help anyone.

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo wis.dm had as good of quality of questions on in “quality question” we had poor quality questions, too. We all around had more questions, which I wouldn’t consider necessarily a bad thing.

asmonet's avatar

@J0E: Meh. Calling the founder and owner, as well as a beloved member snotty won’t help you or your friends, but you still did it.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@asmonet

Condescension is condescension; it doesn’t matter who says it. No one is exempt, not even the owner of the site.

J0E's avatar

On wis.dm, good questions were answered and discussed which raised them to the top, bad questions were ignored and fell to the bottom. That is how the site was moderated.

J0E's avatar

@asmonet Never said I was perfect.

asmonet's avatar

Glass houses, J0E, glass houses.
Move out of yours.

J0E's avatar

I hold the owner to a higher level, plus it didn’t help to be called cunts and shitcocks in the chatroom…but I won’t go there.

asmonet's avatar

Who called any of you that?

J0E's avatar

A moderator, whose name will remain anonymous.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@J0E

Talk about shooting your site in the foot. I haven’t been to the chatroom yet. Is it active ever?

asmonet's avatar

Then you should contact Ben and Andrew and they’ll deal with it personally.

asmonet's avatar

I’d hold off on insulting them when you address them though.

kenmc's avatar

Prime example of frivolous question-banning: I posted the question, “Have you ever met anyone because of Fluther?” and it got banned because it didn’t match it’s topics, which were, “people” “Fluther” and “fun”.

Now that’s just silly.

shilolo's avatar

@J0E Neither did being called a Nazi. I take that very personally. (And, FWIW, it wasn’t me who called anyone any names, despite much abuse).

asmonet's avatar

@shilolo: Heh, forgot about the Nazi things, that was most uncool.

asmonet's avatar

@boots: Questions are NEVER banned. They go to moderation and you may update them to fit the guidelines at any point and it will come back.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

Why is it that I get the feeling this site has two users: wis.dmers and non-wis.dmers?

One thing said by each of those groups gets associated with all of the people in those groups.

PupnTaco's avatar

Well this certainly is one steaming pile of egotism.

Carry on.

kenmc's avatar

@asmonet But when it comes to that, the topics matching the question is a subjective thing. In my opinion, they fit just fine and wouldn’t have posted the question if I feel as though the didn’t.

tinyfaery's avatar

The same way you adapt when you enter any new situation. You look around, get to know people and the environment, and learn where and how to fit in. You don’t start imposing your ideas as soon as you arrive. You can do that later, when you have settled in and actually understand the site and its members.

For instance, asmonet can be quite the brat, but she’s out brat, and she can be your brat if you learn how to treat her. Instead of focusing on what you think fluther lacks, enjoy it for what it is. This might cause a bit of discomfort, but all change does. I am uncomfortable with all of the hair-pulling. Let’s just ask questions. Personally, I’d answer a question about how to get someone’s cat to talk to them again. And I’d give great advice. I’m one of the cat ladies on fluther.

I have enjoyed a lot of the influx of questions. We needed new blood. But, not like this.

asmonet's avatar

@boots: AND you are fully within your rights to contact a moderator and plead your case, or just add a few more and move on. ::shrug::

Michael's avatar

Holy moly. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: this has all happened before and it will all happen again (oh crap, I’ve just outed myself as a BSG geek). Seriously, Fluther has had big influxes of new users in the past and we always seem to get through the rough patches. Granted, this particular question and discussion has been a bit rougher than most, but even so…

I think everyone needs to take a deep breath and remember why we came to Fluther in the first place (whether that was a long time ago, or just a few days ago). Fluther is, in every definition of the word, a community. Communities have old members, and communities have new members. Communities would shrivel and die, in fact, without new members, but they can also lose what held them together without the old members.

Fluther will have to change and adapt with the positive input of all of these new folks, just as these new folks will have to change and adapt to Fluther.

asmonet's avatar

Aw, I lurve you too tinyfaery. :P

kenmc's avatar

@Michael That was a well thought-out and totally fair response. Thank you and well done!

Also, I agree.

@asmonet I try to think out my questions carefully. I try to take pride in them occasionally. I wouldn’t even know how to go about ‘pleading my case’ to the Fluther Don’s. Also, you can only ask so many questions with in a certain time limit here, so I probably couldn’t have gone on to ask more questions.

asmonet's avatar

Just PM one of the mods, there’s Allie, augustlan, shilolo, richardhenry, PnL, omfgTALIjustIMDu, a whole bunch. All of their profiles have their moderator/manager/founder status on them.

shilolo's avatar

@boots Just take the feedback, revise and move on. Don’t take it personally. Really, noone is out to get you. Quite frankly, we have other things to do….

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo I would hope you are not out to get me. That would be weird.

But I don’t know what was wrong with the question in the first place. It seemed to fit the tags to me (as was suggested what was wrong with it in the email I received).

shilolo's avatar

@boots Did you fix it? Is it back up? What was the precise Q? I will look into it.

jrpowell's avatar

I called Ivan a cunt and shitcock after having the mods called Nazis and making jokes about fucking my mom. You guys did it over a span of two days.

asmonet's avatar

Well, you’re not a mod, so that settles that.
Way to own your words, jp. :)

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo I still don’t know what was wrong with it. I personally don’t think it needs fixing at all. It’s not back up. I wouldn’t know how to go back and modify it.

asmonet's avatar

There is a list of your recent questions on your profile page, @boots.

asmonet's avatar

If it isn’t listed there, it’s still in moderation.

shilolo's avatar

@boots You should have received an email with the info. So, I found your question. Want to discuss it here or privately?

asmonet's avatar

Maybe publicly would help others to understand the process?

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo Either’s fine with me.

shilolo's avatar

@boots. So, your question was “Have you ever met someone because of Fluther?” Your description was “Any cool stories?” and your tags were “Fluther, coolness, peple”. These I copied and pasted directly from your question (typos and all).

I would say that the question itself is fine. One trick to making questions better (at least by Fluther guidelines and custom) is to embellish the description. So, you could have said “I just came from wis.dm. We had some amazing “hookups” through wis.dm. Several users have gotten married, we have babies that are a direct result of people meeting via wis.dm. Are there similar, cool stories of people meeting via Fluther?” So, the description could have been better.

Lastly, your tags were vague and there were spelling errors. The tag system is one of the neat and unique features of Fluther. It is via the tags that questions are directed to people with shared interests. Perhaps you could have used the tags: Fluther, relationships, marriage, love, babies, tell me a great story (often established users will use the tags to be funny as you will see, for example, nikipedia).

In summary, the more effort you put into a Q, the better the outcome. Again, this is “the Fluther way”. I realize things were different on wis.dm, but, bear with us. Hopefully you will come to like this as much as your format there. If you ever have any Qs. track down a moderator or use the contact link on the front page to reach us directly. Does that help?

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo Thank you very much. That was most helpful. :) x100.

shilolo's avatar

@boots. So, feel free to use the information from the email we sent you to modify your question. You did get an email, right? if not, maybe check your junk filter, just in case, but I see that you verified your email, so it should be working fine.

MacBean's avatar

@Dansedescygnes I also agree that you’re not just guests. And I’m not against constructive criticism. When I’ve seen that happen, I’ve sent wis.dm-ers PMs to welcome them and clicked to give them lurve for their efforts to integrate. But the majority of what I’ve seen is pure and simple whining.

.
Here’s a story:

Almost a year ago, I moved across the US from New York to Idaho, and I moved in and boarded with a family I’d never met before. I knew they were generally of the same socioeconomic background that I was raised in, but other than that, we were strangers.

I wasn’t a guest. It was my home, too. But for a while, at first, I was treated sort of like a guest, because there had to be an adjustment period. That lasted a very short time, though, and soon I was expected to follow the house rules, pitch in with chores, etc. I didn’t find this unreasonable. I wasn’t invited to live there; I asked if I could. The way they lived was different from how I’d lived the previous 20-something years, but it would have been completely outrageous for me to insinuate myself into their space and then make them change the way they had been doing things in that house for that same amount of time.

Of course, there were some changes that were made to accomodate me. I don’t eat seafood (except for crab) or pig products (except for bacon) so when a meal was made for the entire household, those things were excluded. Doing dishes makes me gag, so instead of being assigned dishes, someone else did them twice a week and I took out the garbage twice a week.

Anyway, my point is that compromises have to be made on both sides. As a jelly, I may be biased, but I think Fluther started out being very welcoming and accommodating, and what’s seen as rudeness only arose once the non-constructive criticism and whining kept up. After established Fluther members tried to help and were often met with little more than increased complaints, then the hostility began to be felt.

I, for one, have very little sympathy for the wis.dm-ers who are complaining that they haven’t been made to feel welcome because, quite frankly, many of them are making me feel unwelcome and uncomfortable here in my own “home.”

3or4monsters's avatar

@shilolo Wow… that was a very eye-opening write up. Thanks.

asmonet's avatar

@shilolo: Do you think we could ask some new members who have recently successfully been modded to contribute the question that they dealt with to a page of examples and explanation of the mod process for their reference? I think some of them honestly don’t realize why it’s structured the way it is and how to work within the system provided.

Or would that be too much?

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@MacBean

I like your analogy except for one small bit. No, we were not invited here, but neither were you. No one was. This isn’t an invite-based site. And I agree with the rest of it.

asmonet's avatar

Then pretend everything Mac said was really moving from New York to Tikrit, and instead of family replace with culture.

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo I have modified the question to pretty much exactly what you’ve given as help. What’s to be expected now?

MacBean's avatar

@Dansedescygnes In my analogy, the family that I moved in with weren’t invited to live in Idaho, either. They simply chose to. Long before I did. It was their home, and I was the “invader.”

shilolo's avatar

@boots Back up and running (check the front page). If you want to know the nuts and bols, I (and the rest of the mods) got an email saying you modified it, and I released it back to the world. It is placed back in the position it was originally posted, so in general it behooves you (and anyone else) to fix the Q as quickly as possible. Sometimes, if people wait too long, and are upset that the Q is now on page 10, we’ll just tell them to ask the modified Q again.

Good job. I hope you see that we aren’t really trying to censor anyone. We’re just making sure that the site (and its Qs) stays true to its core values and strengths.

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@MacBean

The point is, invites are for country clubs. I just think that word should be ignored because it isn’t often that it’s pertinent. I simply chose to join this site and I’m looking to not be associated with wis.dm anymore. Like I said, I’m a full-fledged member of this site. I just happen to have a low amount of star points.

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo Censorship is a powerful and strong word. I totally understand where you’re coming from and I hope you understand where I’m coming from. I’m used to being able to ask whatever I please (which could and did result in both great and awful questions).

I do really hope you can take some of our suggestions. We’re not trying to hijack your site. We recognize what could be better and I hope you take it into serious consideration.

We aren’t “noobs” this type of site. We aren’t totally ignorant to Q/A and our opinions should be considered valid. I apologize on behalf of my fellow wis.dmers for insults. They are unjustified. But we aren’t totally ignorant to such places and I hope the Fluther crowd can understand that.

We don’t mean to come off as hostile. We were just very loyal to our Q/A site. We made wonderful connections there, as I’m sure many have here.

In better terms, “we come in peace” :)

shilolo's avatar

@boots. Fair enough. But, since Fluther is currently profitable, I’m not sure that Andrew and Ben will want to drastically change the formula that got them here without significant thought about the implications of each change in format.

shilolo's avatar

@boots. I would add, it is this kind of thing that is rubbing people the wrong way: “We recognize what could be better and I hope you take it into serious consideration.” To which I would say, “How so?” and “Since you just got here, wouldn’t you want to wait a while before making that assertion?” and lastly “If it was working so well on wis.dm, why isn’t wis.dm still around?”

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo We aren’t asking for something drastic. Just something similar to our former home in this alien environment.

I promise we will grow accustomed to Fluther. These are just the “birth pangs” ,if you will, of our exodus. We truly are refugee’s. Immigrants attempting to assimilate.

As a side note, wis.dm would have been “profitable” if it would have been taken seriously by it’s creators. For them, it was a side project, not to be taken seriously.

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo We have a different perspective. We know some difference in the Q/A format. I don’t mean to sound pretentious at all. It’s just we were born of a different culture and wish to share it with you.

shilolo's avatar

@boots. Perhaps you are right. In stark contrast to the founders of wis.dm, Ben and Andrew take this as seriously as anyone can. It is their creation. They have invested a lot into making it a well-functioning site, that can stand on its own. Which gets back to the issue that some of the things you ask for are antithetical to their vision, and also, the precise reason why they are profitable. Quality questions that draw in lots of page-views and through that, revenue. Dilution of the quality “product” could drastically alter the economics of the site. Why would they want to do that? Do you see my point?

Enlarging avatars is one thing. Allowing vapid and silly questions quite another.

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo I do see your point. But from what I’ve personally experienced, the moderation of mine own questions has been absurd. I’ve had in memory 3 or so questions (umm…) rejected on account of quality. Quality is very subjective and I hope that fact is recognized. I personally wouldn’t ask a question if I thought the quality was poor. But you have help significantly in showing me what can determine “quality” here. I sincerely thank you for that. :)

I can’t really blame the founders for trying to hold true to their aspirations that they’ve set for the site. I do wish that would have happened more on wis.dm. The moderators there basically abandoned the site about 2 months ago. We’ve seen our shut down coming for a long time. And we will adjust, I asure you. I know this for a fact. I think you’re getting a mix of misanthropic disappointment in our home site and our own alien feelings here.

In the meantime before wis.dm actually closes, I suggest looking through it. Here it is and seeing why we’ll miss it so much. I must warn, though: We’ve gone a little crazy knowing that it’s about to close and have started posting whatever we feel like. For the best results of wis.dm in it’s prime, look for anything a week old or more. :)

shilolo's avatar

@boots. I’ve tried, over the past few days. But, it is super slow to load :-( I don’t have the energy for that, as the recent influx of users and all its associated agita has made it difficult to do anything else but moderate Fluther.

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo That’s fair enough. One of the reasons I do like this site is that it is much speedier than wis.dm. If you’ll see above where @J0E said something like, “I love the live comments!”

But there is wis.dm content that is totally and absolutely worth the wait. And I appreciate you trying to see our “homeland”.

I’m off for slumberland, but for the record: we really don’t mean harm. We only want to help.

JellyB's avatar

@kevisaurus Wow Sillysaur, you sure know how to get a discussion going….. :)

mattbrowne's avatar

Kevin, you are a human being and not a dinosaur. Human beings can adapt. I prefer fewer questions in combination with the absense of trolls and spammers. I would be in favor though that trusted users with more points are allowed to ask more questions over time.

AlfredaPrufrock's avatar

@mattbrowne, you will be surprised at how much there is to answer and read on here. There’s a lot of members, and a lot of discussions going on. It’s often hard to keep up.

Amoebic's avatar

@boots: You said. “We aren’t asking for something drastic. Just something similar to our former home in this alien environment.”

Firstly, if you want support of any kind, don’t speak for the crowd. As another migrate, this isn’t something I would want, and I’d be a little mortified if someone were to make that association.

Don’t be ego-centric and expect the world to conform to your needs; go out and try to adapt to the change in the world instead. Think about what you’re asking, there.

mattbrowne's avatar

@AlfredaPrufrock – I’m really looking forward to getting to know the Fluther community and to getting involved in all the discussions. It’s nice to see than many of my best friends from wis.dm have joined already. I also like to meet new and interesting people. I like the idea of the moderators. We had a few trolls and spammers on wis.dm (not many) and it’s wonderful to have a system on Fluther able to contain the problem.

3or4monsters's avatar

@mattbrowne I am really glad to see you here!

kenmc's avatar

@Amoebic I was asking for help and compromise.

Two things I wouldn’t consider terribly awful…

mattbrowne's avatar

@3or4monsters – Glad to see you too :-)

shilolo's avatar

@boots Good morning. I’m still not seeing the compromise part. This is Fluther and not wis.dm. There is nothing that says that Fluther needs to compromise simply to suit the needs of new users. The longer people complain and bemoan that fact, the more the established users will resent that. Sorry to be so blunt, but those are the facts.

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo You’re basically right but it you’d get far less “complaining and bemoaning”.

Being so resistant to a little change will eventually cause stagnation, btw. Change can be good.

shilolo's avatar

@boots I actually would expect less complaining and bemoaning altogether. I would expect people to be glad to find a new “home” on the web so easily and seemlessly. I would expect that if they compared Fluther to their other options (such as the unmoderated sites like YahooAnswers and Askville), they would weigh the pros-cons of each and decide, maturely, to accept the conditions of the site they choose to stay at.

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo You’re expectations have appeared to be wrong. At least since last night.

This site does have many positives. I’m not against moderation at all. Just arbitrary and severe moderation. The definition of those terms may be very subjective. What’s also subjective is what makes a good question. I could easily see removing an insulting question, a loaded question, or a poorly worded/spelled question but what I’ve seen so far is (as I said above) arbitrary and severe removal of questions.

I’m half expecting you to quote Darth Vader in your next response… “Your lack of faith is disturbing” (air choke)

Kelly27's avatar

@boots You just made me giggle….just a little. ;)

shilolo's avatar

@boots I assume you are familiar with the concept of a learning curve. Some will adapt more quickly than others, and others won’t adapt at all (and probably leave). What you consider “harsh” is just our attempts to contain the number of (often) frivolous questions being asked. I don’t really know how many other ways I can say this. As I helped you modify your question last night, you’ll see that we really are about maintaining a level of (Fluther) quality that was here before your arrival (meaning, the wis.dm migration). Whether you agree with it or not is quite frankly immaterial. As I often like to say “It is what it is.”

kenmc's avatar

@shilolo In other words… “No. STFU.”

Joking… I do appreciate your help in showing me what make an “acceptable” question.

jeanna's avatar

Sheesh. Is this a battle for who has the last word? Who will walk away? Let’s move on.

kenmc's avatar

@jeanna No, that’s on wis.dm And that picture of us is sooo tiny! But my hat is extremely noticeable :)

jeanna's avatar

@boots Your neon hat can be seen from space! Easily.

3or4monsters's avatar

@jeanna “Sheesh. Is this a battle for who has the last word? Who will walk away? Let’s move on.” <—- My thoughts exactly!

Live and let live? Que Sera?

jeanna's avatar

“Whatever will be, will be. The future’s not ours to see. Que Sera, Sera!” – Always loved that song. haha

Dansedescygnes's avatar

@shilolo

Yahoo! Answers is not unmoderated, for the record. It’s moderated in a completely different way. They remove anything that gets flagged. So theoretically, your enemy could flag everything of yours and it would all be removed. I see their system as inferior.

shilolo's avatar

@Dansedescygnes Great answer! Thanks for the clarification. I appreciate it. Here, flags come to us, and then we decide what to do. Many Qs or quips that are flagged are left alone (especially ones that appear to be personal vendettas). Personal attacks however are not tolerated.

Kelly27's avatar

Patience, flexibility and making the personal decision on what you are and are not willing to accept.

J0E's avatar

@jeanna not moving on is what keep these site going ;P

J0E's avatar

The awesome new search feature brought me back to this question. It’s funny, because a lot of the things we were complaining about have since been implemented into this site. I guess we all won.

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