General Question

Dutchess12's avatar

Have you noticed that the Wis.dmrs are still asking Y/N questions...and are they not what you expected?

Asked by Dutchess12 (1575points) March 24th, 2009
Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

80 Answers

mattbrowne's avatar

Yes, it will take a while. Besides, some Y/N question can also trigger great debates.

Dutchess12's avatar

Yeah,Matt….you notice in the TOS specially for us it implores us not to ask Y/N questions! I think there was a misconception of…what kinds of questions we asked. I think perhaps it was assumed they were really simple, basic questions, like, “Is the sky blue,” or something! I can see their hesitation with that thought…it’d be like the Invasion of the Blueface!

kenmc's avatar

It’s a hard habit to break.

So cut it out, Dutchess!!!

pekenoe's avatar

Old Flutherites ask a lot of questions that could be answered yes or no also, it’s the nature of the responders that mostly determines the lengthy answers. Sometimes a lot more than the questioner needed to know but helpful other times.

Dutchess12's avatar

@pekenoe I know…but was there a misperception of what a strictly Y/N question consisted of?

Dutchess12's avatar

@pekenoe we’re so limited on the number of Q’s we can ask, so I’ll ask you…I need to send a PM to Pnl…but I didn’t flutherate her yet….so how do I find her?

Kelly27's avatar

I think there is/was some misconception of the types of questions and discussions that we have/had on wis.dm.
I think it is nearly impossible to avoid asking any yes or no type questions, they just need to be tweaked a little to fit the desired format.

Dutchess12's avatar

Exactly Kelly…we were asking the same q’s on wis, but with the added challange of crafting them into Y/N….I remember once grog dared me to ask a non-y/n question, and I had to start over three times with this one question to come up with it! I finally was able to type “Why is grog trying to get me killed by asking a non y/n question?” LOL!!

J0E's avatar

It’s amazing how difficult it is to break the habit.

Dutchess12's avatar

@J0E I really don’t think it’s a habit we need to break. I mean, look at historical questions here….many of them are Y/N! I don’t see any reason not to ask Y/N questions…it’s not like they’re simplistic and stupid! Which is what I think they were concerned about…

JellyB's avatar

Yes, we can ask very sophosticated Y/N Q’s!! :D

shilolo's avatar

Just phrase the question differently. Instead of saying “Do you believe the United States will enter another Great Depression?” say “What will happen to the U.S. economy over the next few years?” and then state in the details, “I am concerned that we might be veering towards another Depression. Do you share my concerns? What are your thoughts?” See…. It’s all in the details, and effort put into the Q.

Dutchess12's avatar

@JellyB Well…most of us can!!

pekenoe's avatar

@DutchCat: if she is a member of Flutherville just use the search bar to locate her, then leave a comment and mark it private. Is that what you needed?

pekenoe's avatar

Understandably the limit on the number of questions would affect individuals coming from a more conversation related social site.

Jiminez's avatar

I feel like non-Y/N questions make me sound like I don’t know anything. If I want to find something out usually I’ll just research it myself. I rarely appeal to experts. My mind has been conjuring up Y/N questions for 2 years now. I think my brain has been re-wired to think in those terms. It’ll take some time to get outta that. Just think along the lines of who, what, when, where, why.

Dutchess12's avatar

@pekenoe exactly..thanks! Man…I can’t believe the small number of questions you’re allowed to ask. I think I only asked….4? And now I can’t ask any more? My head is exploding with unasked questions! Like…my tornado question!!! Which I can’t ask!!

Ivan's avatar

@shilolo If both of those questions are equivalent, then why is it important that we choose one format over another? I completely understand the notion that simple polls should not be asked, but barring the entire yes-no format is not justified in my opinion. I think that what Dutch is saying is that it is quite possible to ask Yes-No questions that accomplish what a normal fluther question would. There is nothing inherent about Yes-No questions that make them inferior or incompatible with Fluther.

shilolo's avatar

@Ivan. They aren’t precisely equivalent. But, I understand your point. Yes, there are many Qs framed in Yes/No format on here. I have been guilty of it myself. I think we were a) concerned that there would be a proliferation of “Do you believe in X?” type Qs and a bunch of Yes’s and No’s in the quips and b) wanting people to flesh out their questions so as to avoid simple Yes/No answers. As I have mentioned (and is highlighted in the guidelines), the more effort and detail one puts into a Q, the better it will be. For the most part, Y/N Qs that meet that criteria (well thought out and detailed) have been allowed to stand.

In general, the Qs so far have been good. What I think are the two biggest culture shocks are the inability to just blurt out whatever, whenever (which I see at wis.dm yes, I’ve surfed over there) and the moderation. In time, this will settle down as people adjust to the site or leave for greener pastures.

Dutchess12's avatar

@shilolo we also had a character number restriction on our questions! You know, it was part of the challenge to a) ask a thought-provoking question in only 138 characters and b) work it so that it was a y/n!

shilolo's avatar

@DutchCat Put out of business by Twitter (and their 140 character limit)....

dearest_prudence's avatar

I have found that it takes a different way of thinking to post a q here, but it isn’t so bad since I have been getting warm ups from practicing on other sites

shilolo's avatar

@DutchCat Twitter allows only 140 characters too. You can follow people, form groups, etc. It was an attempt at humor. ME FAIL.

JellyB's avatar

@DutchCat LOL! I know, i can’t think of any question either for here (well, few anyway), but i have many to ask at wis.dm still! We have to rewire our brains! ;P

mattbrowne's avatar

@pekenoe – The quality of a question does not necessarily depend on being a open or closed question. There are many boring open questions too.

mattbrowne's avatar

@shilolo – I agree with Ivan. I fully support the notion of respecting the fluther culture being a new member. But if it’s really true that disallowing yes-no question was only recently installed to tame the allegedly narrow-minded ex-wis.dm-ers, well… as Ivan said, barring the entire yes-no format is not justified in my opinion.

shilolo's avatar

@mattbrowne No. The Fluther guidelines have been around since the inception. They were recently modified to provide more insight into the moderation process, but, the prohibition on simple to answer or Yes-No questions has been in effect long before you all arrived. That some questions still reflect that style has more to do with 1) being detailed and well thought-out and 2) the fact that moderators aren’t here 24/7/365. Some questions, after receiving a number of useful and interesting responses are left up, even if they violate the guidelines.

mattbrowne's avatar

@shilolo – Thanks for the clarification. I respect the guidelines, but I disagree that yes-no questions are seen as simple. They should be allowed, but it’s up to the fluther owners.

shilolo's avatar

@mattbrowne I think you miss the point. On wis.dm, everything had to be stated as Y/N because of the format (so people could agree/disagree without necessarily commenting). Here, we don’t have that. We encourage question focused commentary and discussion. We don’t want to be inundated with, “Do you agree that Obama is doing a great job?” types of Qs. We would much rather “How do you think Obama has handled the start of his administration?” Then, in the details, you might add “Do you think he’s doing a good job?” Do you see the distinction?

Ivan's avatar

@shilolo First of all, questions did not have to be stated as Y/N, there are other formats. Secondly, we also encourage questions focused on commentary and discussion. The notion that wis.dm was all about simple polls and Y/N tallies is a misconception. The question formats were only there to ensure that the questions posed were in fact questions.

shilolo's avatar

@Ivan Well, some people from wis.dm don’t even bother with that. We’ve seen a fair number of outright “here’s what I’m thinking” statements that don’t remotely approximate a question. In any event, why all the fuss? If your stated goal is to maintain your old community/join a new one, and if you really enjoy the Q-A format, why should it matter so much to you? You (and others) think it is better your way (and also want to venture to the silly), and we don’t. I just don’t get why this is such a sticking point?

Ivan's avatar

@shilolo We just want to be able to ask meaningful Y/N questions without them getting deleted.

Ivan's avatar

And you say that we are being inconsiderate and hostile?

Drawkward's avatar

Man, my first question was removed because it was deemed too binary.

shilolo's avatar

@Ivan. In case you’ve forgotten, you are the one who called me and others Nazis. I am still waiting for my apology.

Kelly27's avatar

@shilolo If you are waiting for an apology from Ivan, you might be waiting awhile and I might suggest you forgive and forget. (There are things we all have to forgive and forget as well)

shilolo's avatar

@Kelly27 Sorry, but I have a long memory about these things. I absolutely will not forgive nor forget, and, it has already been considered a major strike against him, not just by me.

As for your other comment, I’m not sure what you are referring to, but, this innuendo is getting tiring. I (and others) have bent over backwards to accommodate you all, and we’ve gotten nothing but grief. You come here, start complaining and criticizing the site a priori and you expect us to be happy about that? As Andy says in the Shawshank Redemption, “Either get busy living, or get busy dying.”

Kelly27's avatar

@shilolo A long memory can be good but other times it can just cause a lot of aggravation, that’s up to you.
What other comment are you referring to? I have said repeatedly that the majority of the people I have met here have been great and I don’t recall complaining and criticizing anything. Honestly I have found most of the people here to be quite interesting and pleasant.
I have spoken about a certain moderator that called someone a cunt and a user that was extremely rude to a new member.

shilolo's avatar

@Kelly27 Oh, I won’t waste more than a moment thinking about him. I just will remember, for the next time. If you must know, johnpowell called Ivan those words because Ivan insulted us by calling us Nazis and because he made inappropriate comments about his mother. Feel free to be loyal, and defend your buddy, but, he was completely out of line. An apology would be the mature thing to do, but, I have a feeling you are right and that it won’t happen. I have ready access to the transcripts of that conversation. Would you like me to present you with the hard evidence?

Kelly27's avatar

@shilolo I know why he said it, I was right there in chat when he did say it. My point is that just because Ivan said something to him does not in anyway might what he said right. Ever heard the saying two wrongs don’t make a right?
He is not my “buddy” and I think we will end this here.

Dutchess12's avatar

@shilolo In the original format yes, you were supposed to ask only YN questions…it was just the Law, like you have your own laws here. However, if someone hosed up and asked a question that wasn’t in that format, it was still allowed. It wasn’t deleted or moddellated er—whatever. Sometimes some folks would get all bent out of shape over the “incorrect” format of the question (just like some folks here get all bent out of shape if the comments get off subject—boy…wis.dm! You go from talking about brownies to quantum mechanics in the same Q!) but I just thought that was silly. We can change—but wouldn’t you say that overall our questions aren’t so bad, even in the YN format we tend to ask them in? (I feel like I have an accent or something!!!)

shilolo's avatar

@DutchCat Some are good, some are great, and some need tweaking (just like our non-wis.dm users). The main difference is that (for the most part), our non-wis.dm users accept the moderation process with equipoise.

Dutchess12's avatar

@shilolo well, I haven’t been wacked by the mod squad yet, so I’ll have to see how I feel about it!

Response moderated
Kelly27's avatar

@Ivan I think maybe you should both just avoid each other and you should go find some other people to interact with. I promise there are some really great people here.

Dutchess12's avatar

@Ivan Please….I don’t want to lose you….

Kelly27's avatar

@Ivan Really, would you please just at the very least bite your tongue, I really would like it better here if you stuck around.

Ivan's avatar

@Kelly27 Yes, I have met plenty of great people here. I have also met 3 or 4 who are anything but ‘great.’

And I’m not leaving. That is unless big brother erases me.

Kelly27's avatar

@Ivan Ignore them, play nice, do whatever just don’t get kicked out of here.

Ivan's avatar

@Kelly27 It’s difficult to ignore them when they are site moderators.

Kelly27's avatar

@Ivan True…...
Go ask some questions and maybe they will learn to ignore you, at least a bit. :)

Ivan's avatar

It looks as if we are in a lurve race. :D
My 269 to your 268!

Kelly27's avatar

@Ivan You know I will so kick your ass! (I have no idea if I can swear in here)
Will you please try the site out and forget about the few you clashed with? If you managed to get all of us at wis.dm to like you I have no doubt you can do it here.

Ivan's avatar

@Kelly27 Ass ass ass

I am giving it a try, don’t worry.

pekenoe's avatar

It is very possible to remain here and not ruffle feathers, name calling and personal attacks will not be tolerated.

If you have an argument with a moderator, it is a good practice to take it to private.

Stick around, it’s a good place.

augustlan's avatar

[Mod says] Cursing is allowed, as long as it is not part of a personal attack. Also, JohnPowell is not a moderator.

Kelly27's avatar

@augustlan Thanks :)
I misunderstood who that person was, I believe he is a chat moderator?

jrpowell's avatar

@Kelly27 : That would be correct. I am just one of the many mods in the chatroom.

Kelly27's avatar

@johnpowell Good to know. thanks :)

augustlan's avatar

Sorry about that, he is not a site mod, but he is a chat mod!

Kelly27's avatar

@augustlan Just out of curiosity, what qualifies someone to be a moderator, site or chat?

augustlan's avatar

@Kelly27 The founders ask those that they think will do a good job. Against our better judgment, we agree to it! ;-)

Kelly27's avatar

@augustlan You seem fairly reasonable, I am sure you do a good job of moderating. :)

augustlan's avatar

Why, thank you! That made me happy.

mattbrowne's avatar

@shilolo – Would the following be allowed:

“By 2015 all new personal computers will have the computing power to recognize any Captcha character patterns. Do you agree?”

mattbrowne's avatar

@Ivan – I’m glad you’re staying. We would really miss you.

And on wis.dm there were more than 3 or 4 who are anything but ‘great.’ I’m really glad that Fluther stops trolling and spamming and personal attacks right away. It’s something I’ve always missed on wis.dm. I’ve endured it in the past, because too many people were so dear too me and most of the wis.dm discussions and debates were really great.

shilolo's avatar

@mattbrowne Thanks for the public query. You guys are doing a great job asking really provocative questions. However, we’re trying to stay away from questions that are more statement-like followed by “Do you agree?” as a question. We believe most Qs can be phrased in an open-ended manner that doesn’t impact on the quality of the Q itself. So, to answer your question, I would suggest rephrasing it as “How sophisticated will the processing power be of computers in 2015?” (Obviously, you can feel free to do as you please, this is purely a suggestion since, in all honesty, I don’t know what Captcha characters are.)

Then, in the details, you can embellish all you want, like “Do you believe that by 2015 all new personal computers will have the computing power to recognize any Captcha character patterns? For those who don’t know, Captcha character patterns are…” Does that make sense?

mattbrowne's avatar

@shilolo – I think can follow the logic of your approach, but using the example and your split into a main question and a detailed part, the thought-provoking main aspect will very likely not be seen by many users. They will see

“How sophisticated will the processing power be of computers in 2015?”

and many (including myself) might not click on the question to answer it. The exciting part is related to the automatic recognition of Captcha character patterns (an artificial intelligence question like the Turing Test).

A Captcha is a type of challenge-response test used in computing to ensure that the response is not generated by a computer. The process usually involves one computer (a server) asking a user to complete a simple test which the computer is able to generate and grade. Because other computers are unable to solve the CAPTCHA, any user entering a correct solution is presumed to be human. Thus, it is sometimes described as a reverse Turing test, because it is administered by a machine and targeted to a human, in contrast to the standard Turing test that is typically administered by a human and targeted to a machine. A common type of CAPTCHA requires that the user type letters or digits from a distorted image that appears on the screen.

img

shilolo's avatar

@mattbrowne I absolutely defer to your expertise in this (as I said, my knowledge of computers and AI is rudimentary, at best). Can we come up with a compromise solution? You could still phrase it as a yes-no, in a way, by asking, “Will all new personal computers have the computing power to recognize any Captcha character patterns by 2015?” and then give your embellishment in the details section? The more information you provide, and the less poll-like it seems (this is clearly NOT a poll) the better it will be. This type of thought-provoking, interesting question is exactly what we want, and, as is highlighted in the guidelines, the money is in the details. Does that seem fair?

Dutchess12's avatar

@Ivan I see ya’ll 200+ and raise you to my 548!!!

mattbrowne's avatar

@shilolo – Yes, it seems very fair. I will give it a try using your advice!

Zen's avatar

If you ask a question like: What do you think? Or, Can you help me with… or, Do you prefer one thing over another, and why… then it is difficult to answer Y/N to them.

mattbrowne's avatar

@Zen – Here’s my post to the Fluther blog related to the recent policy update:

“Thanks for posting the refined guidelines offering more clarification which is especially important for newcomers like myself. I’ve been a Flutherite for only a few weeks and I think I’ve got modded only once recently as my question didn’t meet the criteria. I feel it’s important to know about the boundaries. My conclusion is that whenever we stick to the rules diversity and individual creativity is appreciated. I’m interested in answering all types of questions, but I’m especially interested in asking social questions to start a thoughtful discussion and explore ideas. I like your rule of thumb that good social questions can’t be answered on just one sentence.”

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