Why do Americans not pronounce the letter L in the word solder ?

Like saying suit, instead of sweet for suite? And what about the NUKULAR?

In Wales we have the same problem with the letter H in almost every word that begins with H. House, horse, I think you get the point.

“Sodder” is a mostly North American pronunciation (Canadians seem to be divided on the matter), but it occasionally crops up in a very few regional British pronunciations (Devon, Cornwall). Interesting, since the word derives from the French and Middle English soudure, which has no “L” to begin with.

The relationship between English spelling and English pronunciation has always been a great puzzle to me. Sometimes an etymology dictionary can help, like

http://www.etymonline.com

Just type in solder.

I’ve always been wondering where the chest had gone, when listening to someone who said he was from Gloucester, England. Never met one from a town in Massachusetts with the same name. Sometimes more than just one letter like L seem to vanish into thin air.

Because the “L” is silent. ;-)

I don’t know, maybe for the same reason that many Americans pronounce “Pittsburg” as “Picksburg” or “supposedly” as “supposebly”. Of course, here in the Midwest the word “Wash” (as in what you do with dirty clothes) is pronounced “Worsh.” Good question, sorry I don’t have a good answer.

Random House and American Heritage both say the L is silent. Webster’s revised says it’s not.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solder

@evelyns_pet_zebra, I’ve never heard either of those pronunciations by people above the age of 7.

I went to etymologyonline.com and typed in “brain” and it pronounced it mattbrowne strangely enough.

I gotta tell ya, I’ve ALWAYS pronounced the “L”.

A New Yorker would probably tell you to “fugettaboudet”

A new yorker also says, Have a nice day, asshole.

I say sol-jer. Linking to what Zen said first, RELITER instead of REALTOR.

@toomuchcoffee911 , are you sure you’re not thinking of the word soldier? As in, an army member? Solder means to join two metals together…

@MrItty I think because the two words are so similar, when speaking them I get it kind of confused and it comes out sounding like soldier. I don’t really use the word solder very much.

Saying the l in solder is a mispronunciation… just as it is for salmon (sall-mon) or pronouncing the t in filet (fill-it).

Who says Picksburg?!?

Supposebly I have heard… but I think even the person saying it would concur that it was a slip of the tongue… not an intentional pronunciation.

Examples of words where the correct pronunciation appears to be at odds with a letter-by-letter phonetic rendition (solder, colonel, psychology, height, etc,) are a very different matter from mispronunciation of words (realtor, nuclear, etc.).

English is full of words that can’t be phonetically decoded from their spelling. In some cases this reflects the language of origin. In some I think the pronunciation must have come first, and who knows why we settled on that spelling?

MattBrowne’s source (thanks for a new bookmark, Matt!) gives us this account of “solder”:

solder
c.1350, sawd, from O.Fr. soldure, from solder “to join with solder,” from L. solidare “to make solid,” from solidus “solid” (see solid). Modern form is from c.1420. The l is still pronounced in Great Britain. The noun is first attested 1374.

Some people do apparently think “supposably” is a word. You know this when they write it.

Pikchout.

Pickyup.

He picked you out – from a crowd,

Should I pick you up from the store?

Smatterchew (What is the matter with you?)

elimeno

(a b c d e f g h I j k l m n o…)

@ru2bz46 Nothing. Sup?

@toomuchcoffee911 P. Elemenohpee.

@Zen Oops, thanks. Actually, I hear more elimenobee.

@Jeruba – I’m really puzzled that there has never been a major effort to implement a spelling reform of the English language (see my new Fluther question). German has undergone two significant reforms in the past 100 years despite all the vocal critics. Yes, there are only roughly 100 million German native speakers and English has several times as much. But still, I think it would make sense to me.

@mattbrowne Whereyabin? Smatterchew, you donlikusnomore?

@Zen – Still contemplating the puritan subculture on Fluther.

@mattbrowne – I think that one of the distinguishing characteristics of the English language it the versatility and ever changing nature. France and Germany try to keep their language pure, while English dictionaries keep expanding based on new words and usage.

What’s the OED at right now? 20 volumes?

@fireside – Good point, but while this might be true for French, the exact opposite is happening for German. Most people in our country and not bothered by the so-called anglicisms (mostly new words for new things). Of course a few people are fighting this, and when they do, I sometimes ask them how they would translate ‘jetlag’ into German. They can’t. The only word available in German is Jetlag with the only difference that the first letter is capitalized because it’s a noun. In fact there is an alternative: Zeitzonenkater, but nobody uses it because it sounds so ridiculous. Here’s a funny article about the denglish phenomenon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denglisch

and it’s funny that there are even English words when used as part of the German language mean something completely different. Examples are: handy for cell phone or beamer for projector or smoking for tuxedo.

Overall you are correct of course. The vocabulary of English is huge, almost twice the size of French or German because of the language history.

@mattbrowne – Most of those words in that article seem to be slang. Are they the common usage, aside from the older generations, throughout Germany?

If so, then it seems as if English is sort of winning out in the race for a unified global language.

@fireside – English has already won the race for a unified global language. Very few people doubt this in Europe, except for the older generation in France perhaps.

Do you mean the words in the Denglish table? Of them only 50% are slang like ‘chillen’ (youth language) while others are very common like Handy or Oldtimer.

@mattbrowne Dear Old-timer, Yesterday, while chillin with some Handymen, I came across a unique idea: why don’t we all lighten up a bit – it’s only English, for Handyman’s sake, and besides- the 1.5 Billion and 1.2 Billion Indians will ultimately decide what we will all learn as a second language. It just might be English. Just chillin.

@Zen & @mattbrowne – I think Mandarin and English are both reasonable contenders at this point. How about combining them into something called Mandarish?

I like @fireside‘s idea about Mandarish, being myself of a religion that is also neither here nor there; I’m Jew-ish.

@Zen – India has 415 living languages of which 18 are called national languages. That’s why they need English. China has 130 languages but since it’s not a democracy Mandarin gets forced down everyone’s throat whether it in Tibet or Xinjiang.

@mattbrowne OK.

@Zen – Hope my answer wasn’t too stiff ;-)

Not sure where you are coming from, but I hear it both ways quite often. I think it’s just where a person is from, and how they first heard it that sticks with that person.

Dictionary.com is wrong, as is etymonline.com as they incorrectly imply that pronouncing the ‘L’ occurs in England alone.

Solder is pronounced with an L in EVERY English speaking country on the planet EXCEPT for the USA. The etymology of the word does nothing to indicate correct or even historic pronunciation. The Americans have clumsily attempted to ‘plug-in’ French influence into a word which has had a clear English pronunciation for generations. And in the end, screwed up the French pronunciation in the attempt.

Same thing goes for the laughable, silent H in ‘Herb’ and the silent T in ‘Fillet’.
Even my French friends find that to be inconsistent and silly. ;-)

Actually that pronunciation of the dark L is common in some parts of London and the East Midlands of England (which are the two places I spent my childhood).

So I pronounce many such L sounds as a sort of w sound, depending on how lazily I am speaking, and to whom.

It’s very common to hear the Ls in words like milk, soul, solder, bill, &c replaced with a clipped w sound, but usually only when followed by a consonant sound.

So, a killer is some who kihws, the bihw-payer uses dollars, the foohw commits folly, etc.

And certainly in the West Country, at least in Bristol and Gloucester, they do a similar thing, but with a more drawn out ohw- sound, and the American accent certainly has other resemblances to the West Country accent.

It’s difficult to explain, but I think you know what I mean.

So, the L-vocalisation is part of several dialects in England, which pretty much totally legitimises such pronunciation in American.

the “correct” way to pronounce these words (including solder) is with the L, but it’s common in America and some parts of England to pronounce it as a kind of vowel-W.

Pall Mall -> Paow Maow
Trolley stays the same, but troll becomes trohw.

Another common thing is to replace mid/end word ‘T’s with a glottal stop,
So “battle” becomes “ba’ohw”.