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CMaz's avatar

Are these people sick? Or is it me?

Asked by CMaz (26228points) May 15th, 2009

Let me see if I can make this short. While dating my girlfriend she told me about her father. She has had this discussion with other friends and have dismissed their answer’s. Conversation starts like this… You know I have been adopted and I love my father….. Then she begins to tell me about the wonderful father she has had. She was adopted at the age of 6. Her father basically attached her to his hip. Being from mexico as a child. He started to tell her (teach her) that the mexican tradition is that the youngest in the house stays home to help and care for the parents for the rest of their lives. He would wake her in the morning to “teach” her how to cook. And would always tell her “this is what you do for your man”. This was a common theme with him. He would take her to the mall sit her down and show her what a good man was and what a bad man was. I believe he was doing to opposite. Say the bad was good. And the good was bad. This way she could never find a good man and there by have to stay home. She was kept home schooled till high school. By her dad and mother. By the way they are both law enforcement. And, when she was ready for high school the father almost divorced the mother due to his refusal to let her go. My Girlfriend cooked, cleaned, gave him manacures/pedicures as he requested her to do so. The hook to all this is she told me that up to the age of 24 he would take her shopping for clothing and longeine. Then bring her home sit on the bed and watch her undress and dress, trying everything on. Sometimes he would get up and hug her while she was dressed, sometimes he would do it while she was undressed (naked). He did this with his other daughter too. There were a few examples when he would “accidentally” walk out of the bathroom naked in front of her. I believe he did such a good job of brainwashing her that even when she went to high school and would talk about her family. When she got to the subject of her father. All her friends would say that behavior was wrong. My Girlfriend would dismiss it and still does. Even when she did go to therapy for other issues and the discussion of the father came up. The therapist would tell her his behavior was wrong. This would cause her to stop going. He is in law enforcement, his job is to get back children for parents that feel they have to take their child and leave the state. To add suspicion to it. They come off as nothing but child hordes. (her parents) besides the children her adoptive mother gave birth to. They have this desire to adopt. THey actually at one time tried to get my wife to take care of a child they wanted to adopt. They eventually adopted the child only to have my wife breast feed the child. One child they adopted as an infant was kicked out of the house by the age of 15. They felt she was too sexually active. Of course my Wife tends to relate to men with the father figure attitude. But since her father raised her to be his boyfriend. When she associates with men, thank god it never became sexually. Her dad really worked hard to derail that desire in her. But, she would relate to men as her father, and the end result was these men would see her as a girlfriend. This has caused many a problem in her life. Here sister who is 20 has slept with every man from the mexico border to LA. And has a “disrespect” for men. She finds in having abusive sex towers the man she is with. Her being the abuser. One brother is a drunk and the other like a live for today attitude. No desire to develop a future have been straight forward about these issues with her. But she holds on to the “good” things her father has done for her. She cant / refuses to get around the facts of the matter. The question is….. Am I over reading things? As a side note…. She did get married before me. But it was an abusive relationship where her ex had total control over her. To the point that twice he got another woman pregnant and my girlfriend decided the best thing to do was raise these children her own. She was threatened that if she did not do this they would be aborted. As that relationship went on he has forced sex on her (raped) to get her pregnant to try to keep her from leaving home. She was not allowed to drive a car. But she did get a license any way. But , when she she finally left. She had to leave with nothing. House was not in her name, no credit cards or bank accounts. No ownership of a car. She is a VERY strong woman. Families only help to her was to try to get her back into the bubble she was in. I believe her parents did not want her to leave that prison due to it exposing the family secret. Also, she never left the county she lived in. until I met her. Never been to mexico, or any place. Her father would always tell here everyplace but the town she lived in was VERY dangerous. She now sees otherwise.

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30 Answers

DragonFace's avatar

I really dont want to read all of that

jrpowell's avatar

Can you please break that into paragraphs. It is hard to read.

drClaw's avatar

I don’t have any advice, but from what I am reading I feel like you are absolutely correct in believing her family is “sick” as you put it. I know different cultures have different ways conducting family business, its where many stereotypes come from. The fact of the matter is that some of these behaviors are just not ok. In ancient Greece it was socially ok for men to have sexual experiences with young boys, but because it was socially acceptable does that mean it was right? No!

She should know that because it was socially acceptable in her house it is still wrong that it happened.

RedPowerLady's avatar

I think that family counseling would be beneficial. By family counseling I mean you and your girlfriend. She needs to find a counselor she trusts and then perhaps she will get some guidance so she can judge for herself what was appropriate and what was not appropriate. This seems quite odd so I will be honest in saying I’m not sure if the story is true or if you are over-exagerating it. Either way I would suggest some long-term counseling. Also it would be nice for her because of her abusive past. It would also be useful to you so you can understand how to help her in this healing journey.

I also agree with this comment by @drClaw She should know that because it was socially acceptable in her house it is still wrong that it happened.
By this I mean the inappropriate sexual boundaries that you mentioned regarding naked father daughter hugs. The beginning of the story simply sounds like a cultural difference and perhaps a machismo attitude.

basp's avatar

Sure, this family has a lot of issues.
You can either decide to continue a relationship with her and accept that you will have a lot to deal with when it comes to her family or you can move on.

Jack79's avatar

ok, this was a bit too long and in a stream-of-consciousness style, but I think I made out 3 main points:

1) the tradition of children taking care of their parents. This happens in many cultures, and it’s also normal that an adoptive family would give the same values to the adopted child as a biological one. If I were to adopt a Saudi girl tomorrow, I would not make her wear a headress, but allow her to run around naked just like I do with my 4-year-old biological daughter. But this has more to do with the society I am currently living it (a christian one) than whatever DNA the adopted child carries, or even my own values. Perhaps I would act differently if we lived in Saudi Arabia. The behaviour towards the other daughter also falls into this category. Even though I believe it was the parents’ fault that she ended up doing what she did (see point #3), their reaction has to do with the family’s values and her violation of their rules.

2) nakedness. As I answered elsewhere, this is not necessarily a bad thing, and it depends on the parents’ choices, and how they go about it. From the way you describe it, it seems like it was a natural behaviour without any sinister (ie pervert) motives. Yes, it’s weird when it goes on beyond the age of 10, but we don’t know what the rules were in that family. Seeing each other naked does not always constitue sexual abuse though. For me most of it is in the mind. And children know.

3) bringing up a healthy girl and preparing her for a healthy relationship with the opposite sex. Here the father obviously failed. Yes, up until my daughter was kidnapped, she’d seen me naked, and we had baths together, and I helped her dress. But she was 3. I still needed to change her nappies. And she was entirely dependant upon me (in fact she still is, which is a huge problem right now, but that’s irrelevant here). The point is that she was still very young, and I already tried to gradually detach her from me, and make her realise that, however special our relationship is (and will always be), when she grows up she’ll have to find someone her own age, and have a completely different type of relationship with him, and maybe get married and have kids. It’s normal for little girls to want to marry their fathers when they grow up. But it’s the dad’s job to differentiate between paternal love and sexual love. I’m not saying the guy is a pervert, I believe his heart was in the right place. But he failed in this respect. He should have slowly prepared his daughter(s) for adulthood, and this is why one of them ended up being a slut by the age of 15 and the other is sexually repressed and had a failed marriage. It is because he didn’t do that part of his parenting right.

Disclaimer: I am not a psychologist, and my comments are based entirely on my understanding of your own post.

Thebigbaboo's avatar

Way too much to read. Try again. Less blabla.

nikipedia's avatar

Edited slightly. Important points in bold for the skimmers:

—————————————————————————
Let me see if I can make this short.

My girlfriend was adopted at the age of 6. Her father, who was from Mexico, taught her that the mexican tradition is that the youngest in the house stays home to help and care for the parents for the rest of their lives. He would wake her in the morning to “teach” her how to cook. And would always tell her “this is what you do for your man”. This was a common theme with him.

He would take her to the mall sit her down and show her what a good man was and what a bad man was. I believe he was doing to opposite. Say the bad was good. And the good was bad. This way she could never find a good man and there by have to stay home.

She was kept home schooled till high school. When she was ready for high school the father almost divorced the mother due to his refusal to let her go.

My Girlfriend cooked, cleaned, gave him manacures/pedicures as he requested her to do so.

Up until the age of 24 he would take her shopping for clothing and lingerie. Then bring her home sit on the bed and watch her undress and dress, trying everything on. Sometimes he would get up and hug her while she was dressed, sometimes he would do it while she was undressed (naked). He did this with his other daughter too. There were a few examples when he would “accidentally” walk out of the bathroom naked in front of her.

I believe he did such a good job of brainwashing her that even when she went to high school and would talk about her family, when she got to the subject of her father, all her friends would say that behavior was wrong, but my Girlfriend would dismiss it and still does. Even when she did go to therapy for other issues and the discussion of the father came up, the therapist would tell her his behavior was wrong. This would cause her to stop going.

He is in law enforcement; his job is to get back children for parents that feel they have to take their child and leave the state. They come off as child hoarders. Besides the children her adoptive mother gave birth to they have this desire to adopt.

Once they tried to get my wife to take care of a child they wanted to adopt. They eventually adopted the child only to have my wife breast feed the child. One child they adopted as an infant was kicked out of the house by the age of 15. They felt she was too sexually active.

Of course my Wife tends to relate to men with the father figure attitude. But since her father raised her to be his boyfriend. When she associates with men, thank god it never became sexually. Her dad really worked hard to derail that desire in her. But, she would relate to men as her father, and the end result was these men would see her as a girlfriend. This has caused many a problem in her life.

Her sister who is 20 has slept with every man from the Mexican border to LA and has a “disrespect” for men. She has abusive sex with men.

One brother is a drunk and the other has a live for today attitude.

But she holds on to the “good” things her father has done for her. She cant / refuses to get around the facts of the matter.

As a side note…. She did get married before me. But it was an abusive relationship where her ex had total control over her. Twice he got another woman pregnant and my girlfriend decided the best thing to do was raise these children her own. She was threatened that if she did not do this they would be aborted. He raped her to get her pregnant to try to keep her from leaving home. She was not allowed to drive a car. But she did get a license any way. When she she finally left she had to leave with nothing. House was not in her name, no credit cards or bank accounts. No ownership of a car. She is a VERY strong woman. Families only help to her was to try to get her back into the bubble she was in. I believe her parents did not want her to leave that prison due to it exposing the family secret.

Also, she never left the county she lived in until I met her. Never been to Mexico, or any place. Her father would always tell her everyplace but the town she lived in was VERY dangerous. She now sees otherwise.

The question is….. Am I over reading things?

loser's avatar

No. That was child abuse as far as I’m concerned.

Cardinal's avatar

Still way TMI

Thebigbaboo's avatar

Thanks for the edit for us lazy peeps ;)

Yes, that is just crazy town and not all anything you want to get into.
Move away. Run away.
The world is full of interesting people without all this weirdness.
I get a bad vibe form the whole deal.

Darwin's avatar

“My girlfriend was adopted at the age of 6. Her father, who was from Mexico, taught her that the mexican tradition is that the youngest in the house stays home to help and care for the parents for the rest of their lives. He would wake her in the morning to “teach” her how to cook. And would always tell her “this is what you do for your man”.”

This part is typical of old-fashioned families of Mexican descent. One friend of mine married into such a family and discovered that, among many other things, she was expected to cut her husband’s meat for him. After 15 years, when he beat her to keep her from going to college, she divorced him.

However, the rest is abusive.

susanc's avatar

“Over reading things?” No.
Over-writing things? I think so.

CMaz's avatar

This is a true story. Belive me. I left out plenty. And when she did get married she was also expect to cut his food. And when she was “bad” she would be locked in the spair room for days. As a child the only thing she taught whas how to please here father. Getting older and getting out to the real world. The only skills she had was what her father had her see was right. You have no idea what prooblems that caused here when meeting other men.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@ChazMaz is this for real? she would be locked in a spair room for days?? that is severe abuse

CMaz's avatar

I am actually righting a book on it. It is the most amazing story I have heard and would not believe it myself if I did not “know” the other people. It is not easy to explain, none of it is. She is back with these people because it is the only way to be with her children. They are using them like pawns to keep her around. You have child abusing law enforcement, and people with money that think they can do what they want. Narcissists!

Darwin's avatar

One hopes you will avail the services of a proof reader.

SeventhSense's avatar

Please someone get that

CMaz's avatar

I did not know this was a writing class. Don’t see me comment on your ugly dog. I am sure you love it and take care of it. I will say thank god for spell check. And weather you aprove of my writing skills. It has made me plenty of money over the years.

Darwin's avatar

My dog is not ugly. She is very beautiful. She knows it, too.

And since you are grateful for spell check please use it.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@Darwin I think your dog is beautiful!

SeventhSense's avatar

OK I’ll spell it out—SS s pair room

CMaz's avatar

So, if my spelling is off, since I tend to do these on the fly. (I do have a life) You are not capable of getting the gist of the query? It throws you into a total melt down and you turn into a 3rd grade english teacher? If it is too long to read, move on. So many questions to be answered. I pass over plenty till I find one that connects with me. And, if the grammar is off, the point of the question is still made and I answer it. Everything else is insecurity and a totally good post gets clouded by a bunch of prudes.

Judi's avatar

and why would a sane person inject themselves into such a dysfunctional situation? On Purpose?

CMaz's avatar

That is like asking why would anyone go to the World Trade Center on such a beautiful day as there was on 9/11? Or walk through an Afgan desert. Sometimes things look good on paper and as you get to see how it is put together. You then find it is not where you should be. She was smart enough to get out, I am glad to have been there for her. We do not live in a perfect world.

SeventhSense's avatar

@ChazMaz
I just thought it comical that two people made the same spelling error. And how does correct punctuation make you a prude? Furthermore I made no comments about the lack of paragraph breaks but read your whole post.,..which started ironically enough let me make this short. But I mean no offense. I just use levity sometimes.

I’ll offer my analysis of the situation.
You have found yourself in a relationship with an extrememly disfunctional person. Someone who grows up in a nudist family is not by nature of the fact disfunctional. In fact I’m sure most are quite well adjusted and healthy. Yet this does not seem to be a well adjusted nudist family because it is marked with inequities of power and of voice.

The fact of the matter is, that this poor woman grew up in a household which was by nature incestuous. Every aspect of her upbringing was about being dominated by a father who was probably a victim of incest himself. A grown man who embraces a naked child past the age of maybe two or three, especially while naked himself, is creating an unhealthy attachment at the least, and a lascivious enjoyment at worst. This is taboo for a reason. Even if he is innocent(which it certainly doesn’t seem to be) it can arouse feelings in a child which she does not have the emmotional capacity to understand or assimilate.

If this is paired with an image of a father who is more like a spouse, this is extremely confusing. Mock wedding ceremonies, daddie’s little wife etcetera is a perversion of the role of a parent. And this girlfriend is now your wife correct? And this wife breast fed her parent’s adopted child? The lack of healthy boundaries and the blurring of sensibilities is hard to fathom.

Now the sister also seems to have been a victim but rather than continually act out the submissive, she has identified with her abuser and has become the abuser causing more suffering and more victims. Perhaps she didn’t get the attention from Dad and was jealous or maybe had a stronger self esteem to resist his pressure to be a good girl.

Your wife/girlfriend needs serious therapy and probably an entire restructuring of her sexual identity to find freedome from this torture.

The person who also needs to consider their behavior is you. And since that is the only person you can change it behooves you to reflect deeply. Now I’m no psychologist but I’ve had more than my share of therapy to know that when I find myself in a situation it has everything to do with some aspect of myself which has drawn me or attracted me to a situation. Another person would have seen red flags a long time ago, yet you stayed for whatever reason.

Now, I’m not judging you for being in this relationship but the fact of the matter is that you owe it to yourself to find out what it is about you that needs to be in this kind of situation. What do you have to learn? Is there some disfunction or blurry boundaries in your own past which are confusing you? Were you a victim? But please know that shame based wounds are never solved by shameless behavior. There needs to be a recognition that yes it was and maybe still is wrong, and there may be a volatile and angry response once this is truly internalized by the victim, but this needs to be recognized for what it is:
Extreme disfunction.

I wish you success and clarity to navigate through this difficult process.

CMaz's avatar

You hit it right on! Appreciate the insight. Thank you for taking the time.

SeventhSense's avatar

@ChazMaz
Glad to help. Peace

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