General Question

willbrawn's avatar

How do you feel about people changing gender with surgery?

Asked by willbrawn (6606points) June 12th, 2009

male to female
female to male

How do you feel about it? Do you think its ok or right? Is it totally wrong in your book? If so why.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

123 Answers

MrGV's avatar

As long as I don’t have sex with a Male->Female guy I’m ok about it.

cookieman's avatar

I feel it is none of my business.

If it were someone I was close with electing to this, I would want to make certain they thought it through completely – spoke with a counsellor at length – visited a number of doctors – collected professional and personal opinions, perhaps attended a support group, etc.

Beyond that, none of my bees-wax.

And, no – I do not think it is “wrong”. I don’t know how I would go about determining that. “Wrong” according to what source of measure or authority? It is simply a choice made by someone who feels they would be happier or truer to themselves as the opposite gender.

SirBailey's avatar

If someone wants to get it done for their own psychological well being and there are professionals that can do it, why not?

I DO think the individual has to be SURE that’s what he or she needs and wants.

And I also feel it’s a cosmetic change. It doesn’t REALLY make the person a member of the oposite sex.

Likeradar's avatar

It’s fine by me.
I can’t imagine anyone taking such a surgery lightly, and if that’s what the person feels like they need to do in their life, go right ahead.

@Sirbailey IMHO, it is just a cosmetic change. The person already was the opposite sex.

casheroo's avatar

Surgery is just one aspect of becoming the gender the person feels they were meant to be.
I’m happy we have the technology so people can be who they truly are.

CMaz's avatar

“I’m happy we have the technology so people can be who they truly are.”
Or truly want to be….

oratio's avatar

It’s fine. Kim Petras looks great, and she seems happy.

atlantis's avatar

I think it should be illegal. There are limits to overstepping one’s limits and this is one of them.

This is a way-over-your-head form of “being oneself”. You don’t need surgery to be yourself. Just be you. And you’ll find the way with a little patience and a lot of faith.

SirBailey's avatar

BTW, Chastity Bono, the lesbian daughter of Sonny and Cher, is having the surgery to become male.

CMaz's avatar

If they outlawed sex change operations through out the world. I would let Chastity slide.
That’s a man baby!

The_Compassionate_Heretic's avatar

I’ve known someone who had that done. A person has to live as the opposite gender for a year I believe and has to meet a host of requirements to get the gender reassignment surgery so it’s not something that happens on a whim.

Who would I be to object to something someone eelse wanted to do for themselves?

syz's avatar

It’s an immense step in a long and arduous transformation. I feel for the individuals who are so unhappy as to have been driven to this difficult decision. The emotional (and financial) toll must be tremendous.

Likeradar's avatar

@The_Compassionate_Heretic “Who would I be to object to something someone eelse wanted to do for themselves?” Good point… especially because a sex re-assignment in no way hurts other people (except, possibly emotional hurt in loved ones who don’t/won’t/can’t understand).

DrasticDreamer's avatar

@The_Compassionate_Heretic In what ways does one have to live as the opposite gender? And what kind of requirements have to be met? I kind of don’t like the idea of that, because it sounds to me like people are trying to say “this action is male/female, but this action is not”. I don’t know, just curious.

I have nothing against these kind of surgeries. If they’ll make someone happy, who am I to say anything? I don’t personally understand them, because I think defining oneself based on gender is extremely bizarre no matter who you are, but whatever.

The_Compassionate_Heretic's avatar

@DrasticDreamer I’m not entirely certain of all the requirements. The person I once knew as Jonathan, became Jennifer, started wearing womens clothes, and started using the women’s restroom.

Jonathan was the company’s Postmaster (email and such). Jennifer refers to herself as “Postmistress”.

evelyns_pet_zebra's avatar

as long as they don’t force me into it, its not my business. I think it might be interesting to have sex with someone from the ‘other side’ so to speak. Life is about new experiences, and I won’t draw a line there, it might be fun and enlightening.

Life is about choices, your results may vary.

jackfright's avatar

as long as they dont make a big fuss about it, i dont have any problems with it.

laureth's avatar

I have dated both an MtF and an FtM individual. They were people, with their own problems, dreams, hopes, fears, and bills to pay. It’s amazing how much other people become just like people when you get to know them.

CMaz's avatar

I know people that do and sell drugs. Keep the money they find in a wallet on the side of the road, cheat on tests and are not fun to be around when pissed off. They are people, with their own problems, dreams, hopes, fears, and bills to pay.
It’s amazing how much other people become just like people when you get to know them.

oratio's avatar

@ChazMaz
You keep good company. I don’t see how transgendered people are immoral though.

CMaz's avatar

I never said immoral. That is your opinion. I respect that. As far as keeping good company? That is you perspective. And, that is what the problem is.
You see it one way, I see it another. Who is right? You? Because you say so? With all due perspect. ;-)

casheroo's avatar

@ChazMaz Did you just compare people who steal and do drugs to transgender people? I don’t get it.

oratio's avatar

@ChazMaz No, but you compared them to drug dealers, petty thieves and cheaters. No matter.

I think that people should be what they want to be, and get help to do that. I am happy with my schlang though.

loser's avatar

@DrasticDreamer Here you go:

As applied today, these guidelines require that a person seeking SRS must meet the following specifications:

Live for at least one year full-time in the new gender role (called Real Life Training or RLT)
Engage in hormone therapy for at least one year (which can be simultaneous with the full-time experience)
Gain the recommendation of a psychologist or therapist after an appropriate series of sessions.
Gain a recommendation of a psychiatrist that surgery is not contrary to the mental health of the patient.

Likeradar's avatar

@ChazMaz Can you explain how that comparison makes any sense whatsoever so that it doesn’t just sound like you’re making up ridiculous arguments to support your own agenda?

CMaz's avatar

And here is where this great debate gets derailed.
What you think is immoral and what I do is different.
One just might not be as apparent as the other. That is all.

loser's avatar

Could we all just remember that we are talking about real people with real feelings who are really regular Fluther users.

TaoSan's avatar

To answer the Q, I lack any and all understanding of the issue. The idea to feel so womany that I want my weenie cut off is at best frightening to me. But hey, people can do whatever the heck they please.

The only thing that bugs me about the whole issue is that it is so required to pretend to understand and be compassionate about it, I’m not, I don’t understand it, that’s all.

Soooo, if you are a fanboy and want the Bosley Institute to make you into Chewbacca, go for it…

CMaz's avatar

No agenda here. I just don’t get it, I mean I get it, but not the way you are selling it. I have Gay friends, TV, TS’s, Bi.
I would never do anything to harm their human rights. But, I do not agree with the reason why they are gay. I understand their feelings.
I feel for them, I respect them. I understand their desire to love and be loved. How they are doing it? What is the logic in a world where procreation is how we exist?
Have not figured that out. You have not either. So I have my opinion, like you. I respect that. I will not beat you up in a parking lot. I will not diss you if you buy a home next to me.
If you are cool, like anyone. Probably invite you over for dinner. If you do things I do not like or approve of. Like anyone. Well we might not be such good neighbors.
You want to tack on any blame as to why we do not see eye to eye or agree. Because you are Gay? Sorry, you are talking to a wall.

The_Compassionate_Heretic's avatar

@TaoSan That goes more toward the scene of body modification which is something completely else.

casheroo's avatar

@Chazmaz you have gay and transgendered friends? Uh, have them come on here and read what you’ve written…see if you still have any friends.

TaoSan's avatar

@The_Compassionate_Heretic

As I said, I really do lack any and all understanding. People gotta do what they gotta do….<shrugs>

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

Obviously I see no problem with MTF or FTM surgery—nor do I think that it’s right for all trans or gender non-conformant indidivuals—for some of us, our bodies aren’t the ‘wrong’ way, it’s what we are expected to do because of them that’s the problem

casheroo's avatar

@TaoSan Okay, I can understand not understanding. I can admit that I can never fully understand, since I’ve never felt that way. I can still empathize as best as I can. I do not judge, and would support my son or daughter or family member if they felt it was the right thing for them.

CMaz's avatar

I have no problem talking to my gay friends about what I think, or my black friends, or my ginny friends for that matter. It starts with respecting what each other is thinking and saying.
I have hetro friends. We disagree about things all the time. Big issues. At the end we go fishing, go to the movies and BBQ. So what is your point?

TaoSan's avatar

@casheroo

Yeah, I’m quite indifferent towards it. Frankly, I can’t even form an opinion about it. As I said, people gotta do what they gotta do :)

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@ChazMaz i got all the other ‘groups’ you generalize about, but, forgive me, what are ‘ginny’ friends?

CMaz's avatar

lol Italian..

DominicX's avatar

@atlantis

Why should it be illegal? Why do you care so much what other people do with their bodies? It’s none of your business. This is not like abortion where you can argue there are two bodies being messed with, this is one person alone by themselves. It has nothing to do with you. Leave them alone.

DominicX's avatar

@ChazMaz

The “reason why they’re gay”. Do you even know what it means to be gay? Do you assume that we choose to be this way? If you do, you’re a mile behind the rest of us. I chose nothing. I’m gay because that’s just the way I am. I do not know the real cause of it and neither do scientists. Frankly, I don’t care what caused it. I don’t want to be anything else.

hungryhungryhortence's avatar

I’m fine with it and have seen it so it’s not a shocker by any stretch. As far as dating goes, most people are pretty open with who/what they are and not out to get cha.

CMaz's avatar

Your assumption and opinion again. I still respect what you have to say. But like I said.
Have not figured that out. You have not either. But, where you are at you have made a decision that you can live with. Cool! Does not provide a a total solution or answer the question. No problem here.
When you say, “hey I am gay and proud of it!” Yes, you did make a choice.

DominicX's avatar

@ChazMaz

I chose to accept my sexuality, yes. I did not choose to have my sexuality in the first place; I did not choose to be aroused by men.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@DominicX yes, but ain’t it great, mmmmm, :)

CMaz's avatar

I agree with you! Really. Read what I wrote.
But you accepted it as the norm. Cool!
Have not figured why, as a man you like men. You have no reason either. Besides telling me you were like that at birth People are born with dwarfism. I give then all the respect in the world. Is dwarfism normal?

The_Compassionate_Heretic's avatar

Ah… that “normal” word again. Have we decided what “normal” is yet?

DominicX's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

I think it is. Men are hot. And cute.

@ChazMaz

Well, I don’t know if I was born that way. It’s possible, but like I said, no one technically knows. And I’ll accept it as the norm because it is normal. It’s uncommon, but no one said something uncommon has to not be normal.

CMaz's avatar

The_Compassionate_Heretic-

That is really what this is all about.

CMaz's avatar

DominicX-
I cant argue with you there. :-)

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@ChazMaz no, yeah, you’re right, being queer is just like dwarfism – my god, how DID I not realize that before?

CMaz's avatar

It is that attitude that screws up good dialog. Lets be politically correct as to what and how we say things.
And, I am glad you see my point.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@ChazMaz I didn’t say anything that I did say to be PC, you’re just reading it that way. And sometimes, m’dear, life isn’t about dialog, it’s about being SICK and TIRED of hearing the kinds of things you talk about

CMaz's avatar

What things I talked about are you sick and tired of?
You sound like a teacher that after her first year of teaching has given up because she does not want to go through the same lessons again.
I do not want more opinion.
Give me some facts.
Educate me.

tinyfaery's avatar

Bored now. Chaz’s same old rhetoric is wearing thin. If sex change surgery should be illegal then so should all types of plastic and reconstructive surgery.

TaoSan's avatar

You know what, I really have to throw this in here, ChazMaz is making his point. Some I concur with, some not, but he/she is doing it in a civilized manner.

This is one of those threads where the less popular opinion is being dwarfed and ganged up against.

You know what? GA all over ChazMaz

DominicX's avatar

@ChazMaz

The problem here is that you can’t say if it’s the same thing. Dwarfism is something you’re born with. We don’t know if you’re born with homosexuality. If you are born with it, then homosexuality and dwarfism are alike in that you are born with them.

Dwarfism can be viewed as a disability. Homosexuality is not a “disability”. At least not for many homosexuals, myself included. In that sense I can say that dwarfism and homosexuality are not the same. What you consider “normal” is up to you as an individual for the most part. I consider homosexuality to be “normal” because it is not a problem; there is nothing wrong with me.

That’s my answer.

CMaz's avatar

“If sex change surgery should be illegal”?
Who said that?

TaoSan's avatar

“normal”, “norm”, “normative”, that’s not up to individual perspective but a plain numbers game. So if 88% are this way, and 12% are the other way, the whole “normal” issue has pretty little to do with being derogative or anything.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@ChazMaz facts? you want facts? you have zero facts supporting your claims so why should I give you a more quality response?

CMaz's avatar

“Homosexuality is not a “disability”.”
We do not know what it is.
” consider homosexuality to be “normal” because it is not a problem with me”
I see where you are coming from. If you cant find a logical answer, find an answer you can live with. We all do that.
” there is nothing wrong with me.””
This is the killer line… I do not know if that is true. All I know is the world exists because of procreation.
I meant this with total respect…. ” there is nothing wrong with me.” Can be seen as pride. I am with you! Or insecurity to face the truth.
I always get the feeling in this situation that, some of you do not really want to know the truth because of what it might revile.
I am ok either way. Really. But if your answers are basically going to be because, Well, then.. Ok…

DominicX's avatar

@ChazMaz

Tell me, what do you get out of saying it’s a disability or a problem or an abnormality?

What does that do for you? You wouldn’t be saying it if it didn’t do something for you.

And furthermore, I know who I am and I don’t care what kind of label you want to put on me. Call me “wrong”, call me “disabled”, call me “abnormal”. I don’t care. It doesn’t affect me. I’ll associate with people who don’t judge me based on my sexuality; I’ll associate with people who accept me. The others I don’t even need to bother speaking to. I am fine with being gay, I have a friend whom I’m in love with, and that’s all that matters to me. The labels you and others provide for me are empty and meaningless.

TaoSan's avatar

@DominicX

May I suggest to read over the thread again? You are not being attacked or labelled. You just feel that way because your not being “labelled” as normal. But again, by the plain sense and etymological origin of the term normal you are not. 88% of the population, majority hence norm. 12% of the population different, hence not conforming to “the norm”, thus, not “normal”.

Hairsplitting, I know, but it had to be said…

oratio's avatar

@ChazMaz If sex change surgery should be illegal?
Sorry, linked wrong. #

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@ChazMaz we don’t know what it is, you say…if we don’t know what homosexuality is then we don’t know what heterosexuality is, either…and DON’T take this as an opportunitey to, again, point out how it’s all about procreation

DominicX's avatar

@TaoSan

Sorry, but it happens to me so much, I come to expect it.

I guess what ChazMaz wants is a permanent state of “I don’t know”. The scientific aspect of homosexuality being something you’re born with is something we don’t know. Everything else is there. We just have to sort through it. He said I am choosing not to call it a “problem” because it makes life easier. There is no evidence that it is a problem. It is not problematic for me, therefore I am not going to call it a problem. I have every right to do that. These terms are subjective…wrong, problem, abnormal. I can choose to not use them when there is not sufficient cause for me to use them.

TaoSan's avatar

@DominicX

I agree, it’s certainly not “a problem”, just different than the majority.

tinyfaery's avatar

People love to equivocate and argue semantics when they are being prejudicial and bigoted. Rationalize it all you want. WTF do you care if someone gets a sex change? Are you affected? Normal schnormal.

TaoSan's avatar

@tinyfaery

Such an eloquent, loveable, intelligent being you are…

DominicX's avatar

@TaoSan

She showed no signs of being unintelligent from that comment. No one here has offered any argument for why a sex change should be illegal. AFAIK, only one person said it should be illegal and they did not explain it.

TaoSan's avatar

Nope, that was never said in this thread, no one ever said anything about “it should be illegal”.

And I notice that as soon as someone states they don’t “understand” homosexuality, the words bigotry and prejudice appear…..

DominicX's avatar

@TaoSan

Like I said, I don’t care what you want to call me. Call me abnormal; it’s fine. My problem is not with the definition of the word. The definition is the definition; I can’t change it.

The problem is that when people label homosexuality as “abnormal”, they’re not doing it for the sake of the English language. Usually they’re doing it so homosexuality can be seen as lesser and can be treated as an illness and thus can be discriminated against. I’m NOT saying that’s what all people who call it “abnormal” are doing. But some do. Some see “abnormal” as an excuse to take advantage of the situation.

tinyfaery's avatar

@atlantis Said it should be illegal.
@TaoSan Right back at ya.

And WTF is not to understand? Some men want dick, some women want pussy, some men feel like women, some women feel like men. There. Talk about being unintelligent. People say “I don’t understand” because they do not want to.

CMaz's avatar

I don’t care if they get a sex change or what. If they are happy great.
And for the record I said, “If they outlawed sex change operations through out the world. I would let Chastity slide.
That’s a man baby!
Apparently humor. If you read all of it.

CMaz's avatar

If I I cant use the example of procreation. Then all you have is a because answer.

TaoSan's avatar

I stand corrected, that Atlantis post wasn’t even worth taking into consideration LOL sorry.

@DominicX

I should mention that English is my second language, so sometimes derogatory connotations escape me. Trust me, more than once did I fall into that trap.

However, the tiny ones semantics argument is the same kind of ignorance and intollerance, just the other way around…

DominicX's avatar

@TaoSan

I would love it if we could only use denotative definitions of words, but the fact of language is that words have connotations. Many things are abnormal by the definition, but we don’t call them that because the word “abnormal” has negative connotations. “Abnormal” is related to the words freak, weird, strange, twisted, wrong, perverted, repulsive, repugnant, etc. The definition of “abnormal” doesn’t say any of those things, but we as a society have come to associate those words with “abnormal”. That’s why I don’t like that word. I can’t control the connotations of words any more than I can control the definitions. I’m just throwing this out there.

CMaz's avatar

“The problem is that when people label homosexuality as “abnormal”, they’re not doing it for the sake of the English language. Usually they’re doing it so homosexuality can be seen as lesser”
That reaks of insecurity. I do not see it as lesser . Everything has a purpose. I just want to know how it fits into the grad scheme of things.
Action, reaction.

DominicX's avatar

@ChazMaz

I wasn’t talking about you specifically. I said some people do that. The majority of people who use those words do that. There’s nothing wrong with wanting to know where it fits in. I can’t give you that answer, though, because I don’t know the answer.

TaoSan's avatar

In roughly 12 years I’ve been in this country this language has twice morphed 360 degrees because someone always doesn’t like some otherwise perfectly alright word. Praise German lol.

CMaz's avatar

Cool, thank you. I really apreciate your honesty. :-)

TaoSan's avatar

@tinyfaery

And WTF is not to understand? Some men want dick, some women want pussy, some men feel like women, some women feel like men.

I’m sure your life revolves around such vulgar, simplistic and totalitarian approaches..

You have just belittled every gay man and every gay woman that had to go through what many suffer on their way of coming to terms with their orientation.

WTF FooFoo, you just want dick, way to go TF.

You are so what you yourself decry…

dynamicduo's avatar

It’s totally fine in my book. It doesn’t affect me, so why should my opinion even matter? As long as the person really wants it and is willing to put forth the effort and some of the costs (parts of it are covered in our health system here in Ontario), so be it.

tinyfaery's avatar

@TaoSan Get over yourself. I am a QUEER WOMAN. I have been married to a woman for alomost 8 years. You obviously cannot handle what being gay really is, which explains a lot. Who have I belittled? Myself? The LGBT people who have PM’d me to say they agree with me? You know NOTHING about being gay or lesbian.

Darwin's avatar

If someone needs to be another sex externally so much that they would undergo painful surgery, that’s fine with me. I think in some ways it makes more sense than having your nose reshaped or your saggy bits removed.

My question is, why are sex change operations linked with homosexuality in people’s minds? Since when is gender confusion the same thing as being attracted to the same sex?

tinyfaery's avatar

@Darwin Good point. Absolutely nothing, unless of course an FTM is attracted to guys or a MTF is attracted to women.

LexWordsmith's avatar

About such people, i feel great pain for their feeling so frustrated and desperate that they will resort to such painful measures and subject themselves to inevitable societal pressure and disapprobation. As to why these people feel driven to that, see my answer in the transgender/restroom Q for my best understanding of the phenomenon.

TaoSan's avatar

@tinyfaery

Funny, I get IMs congratulating me having called you on your %$**iness. An you’re right, so very right, I know nothing about it and don’t care much for it either LOL

oratio's avatar

I get no PMs at all…

tinyfaery's avatar

Yeah! Other bigots.

TaoSan's avatar

@tinyfaery

Feeling so unaccepted, all that bitterness, too bad, so sad…

But hey, it’s always the others, innit?

You know, bigot means a person who is intolerant of or takes offense to the opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term to describe a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices, especially when these views are either challenged, or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.

All the tats in the world and angry ridiculous acting out won’t change that this description fits you much better than some of the people here who simply state they can’t understand your lifestyle, and I say lifestyle, not orientation.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@TaoSan i’m sorry but what do her tats or whatever you think is part of a ‘rebellious’ acting-out have to do with anything?

TaoSan's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

of course, nothing has to do anything with anything! But then, if it walks like a duck…Some people fill certain clichés just toooooo well

tiffyandthewall's avatar

i don’t think it’s any of my business, nor is it anyone else’s besides the person undergoing the surgery.

“But, I do not agree with the reason why they are gay. I understand their feelings.”
what?

filmfann's avatar

You asked “How do you feel about people changing gender with surgery?”
I prefer not to feel about them. It’s intrusive and rude.

jlm11f's avatar

[mod says:] First, I’ll admit I didn’t read the whole thread. Why? Because it’s 3 am and I sort of don’t care at the moment. But I did read enough quips to know that the conversation hasn’t been as civilized as it can be. So flame off please. Go ahead and flag stuff if you feel it needs special attention. I will be reading the quips from here on out. Remember to be respectful of each others opinions and keep personal attacks out of the discussion. Thanks.

fundevogel's avatar

I think it’s wonderful that gender reassignment is available for those that need it. But from what I’ve read doctors are still pretty bad at making penises. I’ve heard that a lot of FTM’s don’t actually go for the penis, possibly because of this.

But surgery or not if someone says they’re a man or that they’re a woman, it doesn’t matter what they’ve got between they’re legs. I believe them.

This girl’s got it right.

Darwin's avatar

@fundevogel – Yes, that little girl has it right: a girl brain in a boy body, or a boy brain in a girl body is precisely what the problem is. Some societies fix it culturally, by having more than two genders. Our society offers a physical fix. If someone needs that fix badly enough to undergo the hormones and the surgery, then more power to them.

loser's avatar

@fundevogel Thanks for that great link!!! I needed that!!!

atlantis's avatar

@DominicX
I’m not fueling fire here. But just wanted to remind everyone of the question how do you feel
I have a right to my feelings… you gotta grant me that.

I do leave them alone, but I’m sceptical of the wider, societal implications that the transition to making this a “normal” occurence would be. I just don’t think, no wait feel, we should mess with nature’s ways. That’s what bothers me.
I feel that there are better things to do than change genders. I can’t change that, just how I feel…

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@atlantis you may feel there are better things to do than change genders and I sincerely hope you spend your life doing them – but for some people, changing genders is tantamount to living a life at all – i know you understand that

fundevogel's avatar

@atlantis people have been changing natures ways for as long as they were able. With penicillin, insulin and heart by passes and such. Nature isn’t particularly compassionate, but we people try ameliorate the pain and suffering caused by her, because we do have a capacity for compassion.

I think you might be giving nature too much credit in assuming that just because she designated someone chromosonally one gender they must be that gender. After all, the chemistry of the brain that tells a person what gender to identify with was also bestowed by nature. Nature, in giving the body and the mind contradictory messages is clearly not the end all be all of determining gender.

ratboy's avatar

It depends on whose gender they’re changing.

atlantis's avatar

@fundevogel Now that makes sense, to discover penicillin and insulin to cure biological abnormalities. But I’m of the view and I advocate that we search for the specific causes why would someone want to change their gender. It’s a broader, psycho/sociological question.

To me it’s like saying someone has the right to commit suicide because they are clinically depressed.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@atlantis yes we should figure out why gender as a norm is necessary to begin with and why people HAVE to fit one thing or the other, you’re right – I wish nobody had to get surgeries to cut themselves up to fit into one of the very limiting 2 boxes, but there you go…and it’s not like committing suicide, at all, that’s wrong to say

mattbrowne's avatar

In many cases it’s the right thing to do.

atlantis's avatar

@mattbrowne My point exactly; why are there so many cases where it’s the right thing to do? Something is messing up the system and we’re ignoring the very obvious implications it’s having and only being active to be passive in the long-run. Not a good strategy since we don’t even know what we’re specifically dealing with.

How do we know this won’t have a backlash of epic proportions further on when it’ll be too late to change?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@atlantis we don’t but we also know that trans people, when they want a sex change and aren’t given one, are a lot more likely to have terrible lives and kill themselves…soo consider the alternative

loser's avatar

@Simone Youre right. Trans people are more likely to commit suicide. Many who don’t have the financial means or lack of support do kill themselves.

@atlantis You’re right too! People have decided that they’d made a mistake. That’s why the Harry Benjamin Standards of Care were established. Basically, it’s a lot of hoops to be jumped through to make sure that this is what the person really wants. But even with that, a lot of people are unhappy with their results and kill themselves.

atlantis's avatar

@loser You know what the weak link is here? The individual is assumed to have no relationship with the surroundings which she inhabits. What matters to the heart is important but we cannot say that it is entirely intrinsic and has no connection whatsoever with what is around you. It’s two way traffic.

And we haven’t even begun to understand this from an academic, scientific perspective.

Thanks for the balanced reporting. I’m looking up the institute.

loser's avatar

@atlantis Are you referring to the friends and family who are also forced into the person’s sex change?

atlantis's avatar

@loser I’m thinking of anybody who can be affected by this. I know friends and family are the first ones to be impacted and their reactions are going to be the strongest. But aside from that there can be other effects. This sub-culture of ‘transexuality’ (is that a word?) is totally new domain considering the knowledge and skills we possess at this point in time and our capacity to predict the effects of the application of these skills.

I don’t wanna drag the subject but AIDS was known as the gay virus when it first sprung into the public eye in the 70s. No cure, no end in sight for light years. Transsexualism may not bring on a new biological plague, but it is a potential breeding ground for an asocial one. How can you specifically state that a naturally born gender is equal to a synthetic one?

All questions and no answers. We’re playing with our collective fate.

loser's avatar

Um, okay. But what about the people who have suffered their whole lives living in the wrong body? That had to affect their friends and family as well. As far as some sort of new disease springing up, I don’t think that’s very much of a possibilty considering how many years people have been having sex changes. It’s nothing new, just more people are talking about it now.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@atlantis what are you talking about – the gay community didn’t bring forth a biological plague, please learn how AIDS came about, get your facts straight

loser's avatar

@Simone I was afraid to even go there.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@loser sigh, @atlantis’ statements make my head want to kill itself…well, that’s not worthy of fluther, that’s a personal attack no? i apologize for it, @atlantis

atlantis's avatar

The AIDS virus originated in monkeys and first transfered to humans through active homosexuals. The other conspiracy is that it is a biological warfare experiment gone awry.

@loser That’s why I’m advocating that it be illegal. So nobody gets to flirt with the idea of a synthetic sex change at all. But even that is a question of global enforcement. “Society?”

@Simone_De_Beauvoir So I’m making some progress. lol. I get that a lot when I draw my weapons out.

loser's avatar

@atlantis Well, I am certainly glad that you aren’t the one who gets to decide these things. My life was a nightmare for 35 years before I finally had my sex change. All I can say is, you have no idea what it’s like and if you did, I’m quite sure that you would feel differently.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@atlantis you call your statements weapons? hahaha…no no

mattbrowne's avatar

@atlantis – I think we’ll get more clues from research related to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INAH_3

with a situation of

genotype XX and phenotype male brain
genotype XY and phenotype female brain

atlantis's avatar

Great link. Thanks.

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