General Question

allansmithee's avatar

What format are thoughts?

Asked by allansmithee (356points) August 1st, 2009

Do we remember things in images, words, feelings, or something else?
What I mean by this is when we think of something lets take “I love you” for an example, do we remember the words, a image, or feelings?
This questions comes from thread
Could we understand someone else’s thoughts if they spoke a different language?

I personally would go with we remember with feelings and them feelings can rekindle words and images. Feelings does seem like a cop out because it is such a vague concept, the only reason I don’t go with words is because as this would make sense with nouns with adverbs how could this be done? Plus if we remember in words what about someone with no language? Can they not remember things or would it them be in a different format (if you could say format)

I really don’t know, help?

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20 Answers

DrBill's avatar

I believe we all have our own personal format, and thought process, that is why some people are good at math, some are good at the arts, etc.

If we were all hardwired with the same format, we would all think the same way, and where’s the fun in that…

allansmithee's avatar

@DrBill
I don’t think the format has anything to do with how your brain is wired up. We may all remember things in images, feelings, etc but our brains are all wired up differently.

Maybe my thread is misleading.

gailcalled's avatar

I hear the words as an interior monologue. There seems to be no visual images attached. As in now, while I am typing.

allansmithee's avatar

@gailcalled
I would like to step back from saying we remember in feelings and go with a even bigger cop out for now, we remember in thoughts (or maybe feelings)

It’s hard to really know if we remember in words or do our feelings/thoughts get conceptualizes into words.

gailcalled's avatar

Now this guy, pdworkin, is worth waiting for. Although a newcomer, he has had cogent, factually accurate, and clear answers. I have admired every comment he has made so far. (Is there a way of making the opposite of this ^^ ?

allansmithee's avatar

@gailcalled
Yes it’s called a v.

gailcalled's avatar

Wait for vv. (Thanks. I’m a little slow this AM.)

dpworkin's avatar

As technology matures we are able to draw more and more conclusions about how the brain actually stores and recovers memory. Years ago we learned from accidents like strokes, lesions, and phenomena like the story of Phineas Gage (http://www.deakin.edu.au/hmnbs/psychology/gagepage/Pgstory.htm).

Now that we have access to PET scanners, fMRIs and the like, we are discovering that the brain is far more plastic than we thought, and that memories, thoughts and impressions are stored in more complex ways than we imagined.

Imagine a congenitally blind person. Their visual cortex is extremely active. So what is it doing, when there is no input from he optic nerve? It seems likely that due to plasticity, it has taken over other functions – the brain seems to be very conservative and it uses itself very well.

This, among other things, leads me to believe that our thoughts are synthetic (in the sense of synthesis) and are probably formed of images, words, sensations, odors, synaesthesic phenomena, all at once, and that we are not necessarily aware how syncretic our inner narrative really is.

gailcalled's avatar

I still see my words forming quickly in some kind of translucent ticker tape. All of my creative ideas are verbal and seem to arrive unannounced and intact. The mechanisms of the brain are interesting, I find, but only as an abstraction. (This will probably hold true until I have a stroke and become a wonderful artist but no longer a writer.)

Speaking of mysterious links between artistic genius and the brain, see the extraordinary French indie movie, Séraphia.” Review

allansmithee's avatar

@pdworkin
Very good response, some of the things you pointed out is why I wanted to step beck from feelings, I thought to myself does that mean something without feelings can’t remember? Of course that’s ridiculous.

ctferrarajr's avatar

My spanish teacher used to talk to us about how she sometimes found herself thinking in spanish more then she thought in english.

allansmithee's avatar

@ctferrarajr
This is why I put in my question “Plus if we remember in words what about someone with no language? Can they not remember things or would it them be in a different format?”

ctferrarajr's avatar

@allansmithee maybe this is why babies don’t remember their youth….

allansmithee's avatar

@ctferrarajr
I think it’s more down to the development of their brains.

Vincentt's avatar

As we haven’t even seen the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the brain (is that even correct usage of that idiom?), so all we have hitherto are philosophical guesses (I’m thinking Gottlob Frege, Bertrand Russell, Ludwig Wittgenstein and the likes). Interesting reading material, I still have to catch up on that.

I don’t have the literature within reach, unfortunately, so I can’t provide specific examples of specific philosophers, but something interesting to consider is the case that, when I have an idea and I tell you about it, will your idea be the same? How can I know that my idea has been successfully transferred to you? How do we even know we’re talking about the same thing?

allansmithee's avatar

@Vincentt
Ludwig Wittgenstein did say (here comes the half remember line, and half is generous) that language is imperfect so our thoughts can not be projected thought speech perfectly.

evelyns_pet_zebra's avatar

This is a fascinating question, and there are some fascinating answers here. GQs and GAs all around.

mattbrowne's avatar

Some call the ‘format’ of thought and memory ‘synaptic plasticity’ i.e. the ability of the connection, or synapse, between two neurons to change in strength. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaptic_plasticity

wundayatta's avatar

I’m not sure what you mean by format. It sounds kind of like formatting a hard disk or something.

I believe that we tend to think in words. This is mostly because we communicate in words. We also think in images and sound and smell and emotions. I think we are easily aware of the thinking we do in words, but it is harder for us to apprehend our non-verbal thinking. If there are no words, we don’t have a useful way of describing our thoughts, even to ourselves.

Non-verbal thoughts often burst into our consciousness as fully formed insights. It appears as if they are inspirations, or gifts of God, but I think we have been worrying them over in our non-verbal minds, and eventually, these thoughts get transferred to our verbal minds.

I think it may follow that if we think in various ways (not just verbally), then we probably also store memories in various ways. Memory is associative, and it’s not always easy to see how our minds organize the material. Some easy things might come to mind. For example, when I’m with my brother and sister, I often call them by my children’s names and I’ll call my children by their names. This suggests to me that the names of these folks are stored in the same area of my mind—the close male relative and close female relative areas.

Smells seem to bring back powerful memories in people. You smell a turkey roasting and you get memories of Thanksgivings past, and relatives making the food. Other smells bring other memories. Visual cues are often used. I store memories of various vacations in objects (souvenirs) that I’ve brought back from the trip. Pictures usually spark a lot of memory. When we teach people to use a memory palace as an aid to memory, we use a physical image in our minds—an imagined sight as the memory palace, in which we store memories in a more consciously organized fashion.

I think there are different thought “formats” and they are used depending on what we are trying to do. Obviously, if we are communicating with someone, we have to convert our thoughts into symbols that can be communicated. Usually we use words as symbols, but we also use visual hand symbols for the deaf and touchable symbols for the blind. Words can be translated into both visual and aural symbols. However, sometimes we draw pictures or employ music to communicate some ideas that do not do well in words (directions, the location of things in space relative to each other, depictions of emotions, depictions of feelings about things, etc).

I guess, underneath it all, I think we think and remember with symbols. I think we employ all kinds of senses to create, manipulate, and store those symbols. We use all the senses—and some senses are more obvious than others. What are our feeling symbols? That is how emotions are “discussed” or remembered internally. They are often strongly associated with smell. Yet we can’t necessarily communicate with smells, our our feeling language is largely used at a subconscious level.

Feeling language is more often known as body language. It is communicating all kinds of things when we interact in person. Facial expressions and body postures tell us so much, but since it isn’t associated with words, we are not so aware that we are communicating in this way, nor that we are thinking and remembering in this way. I maintain that feeling language is used just as much as verbal language, but that we tend to think it’s not there because it is rarely expressed in words, and words often can not express feelings.

So, I guess to answer your question, thoughts come in many formats. They are acquired, analyzed, remembered and expressed in these various formats. We have a bias towards linguistic symbols when we communicate with others, so we tend to be less aware when we are thinking with smell or feelings/physical sensation/body movements and postures. We are also not used to discussing our communications that bypass words—music and visual art. We can do it, but most of us don’t do it very well, which is why professional music and art philosophers seem to speak in a rarified language.

The implication is that our bias towards word symbols, both as a means of thinking and communicating, tends to make us overlook other ways in which we think and communicate. Thinking and communicating both rely on memories. I think memories are stored in the format in which they are first experienced. I think it is rare for a memory to be translated from a sight or sound or smell or feeling into a word. It’s inefficient, and unnecessary, for the most part. The only people who need to translate non-verbal forms of thought into words are those who make a profession of it—poets and writers. It takes a lot of practice to perform these kinds of transformations well. I don’t think most people need to do it, nor do they want to practice it enough to do it well.

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