General Question

tinyfaery's avatar

Someone please explain why pregnant women or those with small children deserve special parking spaces?

Asked by tinyfaery (41742points) October 1st, 2009 from iPhone

I can’t think of one legitimate reason.

Fat people don’t get special spaces.

People who are picking up a lot of stuff at the store don’t have special parking spaces.

I just think this is another example of special treatment for parents and pregnant women.

And please, try to explain without hostility. I really want a reason.

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172 Answers

DarkScribe's avatar

To encourage them to shop at the store providing them.

Realistically, one reason could be similar to the wider bays offered for wheelchair parking- to allow more room for them to remove and replace some of those monstrous prams without destroying the paintwork on adjacent vehicles.

poofandmook's avatar

Lurve, tinyfaery… I park in those spaces. That’s ridiculous.

Critter38's avatar

In regards to small children, I think the sooner the children are out of the carpark the smaller the risk of them being injured. Small kids cannot be seen by cars and proximity to the shops should reduce associated risks.

I think in regards to pregnant women it is just seen as a nice gesture at a time when a women’s mobility is temporarily restricted. (and yes it encourages them to shop at those centres which make this gesture when they otherwise might be put off and go elsewhere).

Fat people don’t get special privileges because in most of the western world they are hardly “special”.

Likeradar's avatar

Have you ever experienced the joy of schlepping a pregnant belly and a few young kids (hold hands! We’re in a parking lot! HOLD MY HAND!) through a parking lot? As @Critter38 said, it can be really dangerous, not to mention stressful. It’s a way of making life just a little easier on those who are making or raising new people.

sandystrachan's avatar

so they are closer to the store, don’t have to carry the childrens and shopping far.—same for disabled people-

Response moderated
basp's avatar

In the state I live in, pregnant women and parents of small children do not get special parking places. One must have a medical reason for that privledge. And, being pregnant or having children are not considered a good medical reason.

casheroo's avatar

Legally, I don’t believe a police office could enforce it, but the private property owners can and do enforce it.
It may be a ploy to make the people who do all the food shopping (which seems to be the women in the family, according to grocery stores) to keep coming back, and make them feel they have a special spot.
It’s not for young children only. You have to either be pregnant, or have an infant…which is a child under 1.

Pregnant women are not just fat, first off. They’re abdominal muscles are ripping apart, their uterus will get 1000x larger than normal size, they are growing a human being that is sitting on their bladder and kicking their ribs or other various organs.
Comparing a pregnant woman to a fat person is quite insulting actually.

Infant-wise, I think it may be the fact that usually you keep infants in those infant bucket carriers which themselves weigh quite a bit, add a baby and you could be carrying over 25lbs. It’s to accommodate people who have heavy, precious loads.

I never understood the hostility towards mother to be/of infants. Why can’t people just being compassionate when others are either uncomfortable or just need a little break?

I parked in a mother to be spot for the first time last night, I felt at this point I’m allowed and had my 26 month old with me, so it was nice to not have to chase him all around the parking lot with my growing belly, trying to put groceries away, and get the cart back. Thank god for lollipops.

tinyfaery's avatar

So pregnancy is a disease and pregnant women deserve special treatment? Pregnancy is a choice, in most cases.

Frankie's avatar

I’m assuming it’s for generally the same reasons that there are handicapped spaces. When women are in the last months of pregnancy, walking any sort of distance can be extremely difficult, in the same way that someone with a broken leg or foot may find it extremely difficult to walk. As @eponymoushipster said, pregnancy is not the same as being fat. All that being said, I’m sure there are many women who take advantage of this and start using the spaces within the first couple months of their pregnancy when they’re perfectly capable of walking as well as anyone else instead of leaving it open for a woman who needs it more than she does. I think these spaces should be only for women who are at least 6 months pregnant.

As far as for women with small children, I second what everyone else said about kids being in danger of getting hit by cars.

veronasgirl's avatar

I agree with what everyone else has been saying. I have never been pregnant myself, but I understand physically and medically what happens to your body and I think that women in their second trimester probably consider those parking places a miracle.
As for small children, I agree with @Critter38, the sooner small children are out of the parking lot the better. Herding small kids across a parking lot is really difficult and I think until you have children you can’t understand how difficult it is for new mothers and mothers of small children. Give them a break, they are still learning how to juggle all of the responsibilities of being a mother.

DarkScribe's avatar

Where I live it has nothing to do with legislation, it is provided by the shopping centres or stores. They are labeled “Parents With Prams.”

Likeradar's avatar

@tinyfaery Please show me where anyone said or implied pregnancy is a disease.

What’s been said over and over, implicitly and explicitly, is that it is that it’s about consideration and safety. I’m sure you’d actually understand that if you stopped looking for reasons to be resentful.

DarkScribe's avatar

@tinyfaery Pregnancy is a choice, in most cases.

In many other cases it is a “Whoops!” I have heard women use the expression as ” I have been whoopsed”.

poofandmook's avatar

hmm. Maybe I won’t park there anymore. Why, as someone dying to have kids, I didn’t think of any of this, is beyond me.

sheepish

casheroo's avatar

@poofandmook The only thing that bothers me about non-parents/pregnant people parking in those spots is, they take away from handicapped people. If a pregnant person is not parked in those spots, they should be used as handicapped spots because they are the next available closest spots. So, they should be open to them as well. I would give the spot up for a handicap person over me since they legally should be closest.

eponymoushipster's avatar

@tinyfaery pregnancy is a choice. and being considerate is a choice. why are you so bitter about people with children, anyways? This question, the last one about people with kids taking sick days – what’s the deal? Bitter about life choices much?

maybe handicap spots should be done away with – i mean, some of those people are handicapped because of poor choices, and some because they were born. how rude of them to not walk and block your PT Cruiser from parking close to your favorite brunch spot.~

poofandmook's avatar

@casheroo: those spaces are always next to the handicap spaces here… so there are still 2–3 handicap spaces, and then 1 or 2 pregnant spaces after that.

When you’re in a hurry on a 30 minute lunch break where by the time you get back to work you’re probably BARELY making it to the clock on time… I don’t know… those spaces are awfully tempting.

casheroo's avatar

@poofandmook I know, that’s how it is here as well..that’s why handicapped people should use them if there are no handicapped spots. They have a reason for it.

tinyfaery's avatar

I always know who will take things personally and who will be offensive. So thanks for proving me right. It’s actually kind of amusing.

In my short time on earth, I have noticed how much special treatment people get once they become pregnant and have children. The older I get the more it occurs.

My mother and every other woman used to be able to function without it. Why all the fuss?

And, I never park in those spots. Actually, I prefer to park far and walk. So my question isn’t about me being denied a parking space. My problem is equity.

ItalianPrincess1217's avatar

@Tinyfaery You specifically asked people not to be hostile but it sounds as though that is exactly what you’re doing. Why are you so resentful towards pregnant women? Being pregnant may have been by choice but so is being considerate and having a heart. You’re obviously making the choice to be the opposite…bitter and angry.

veronasgirl's avatar

I would also like to add that is completely ridiculous to be complaining about this. Or society has gotten so lazy, we can’t even walk a few hundred feet into a store. And @tinyfaery was complaining that people with a lot of purchases don’t get special parking places; that is why stores provide you with shopping carts. It’s your own fault if you choose not to use them.

RandomMrdan's avatar

@tinyfaery I suppose you could go get pregnant for equality? If you chose to do so that is. I thought you said this wasn’t suppose to be hostile, it seems you are the only one being hostile.

eponymoushipster's avatar

@tinyfaery yeah, i can see how people with children, or who take care of children, would take this personally. you want equity? go get a turkey baster and go to town. pop out a double down of kids and see if you’re still complaining.

ubersiren's avatar

I don’t mind walking a ways as a pregnant woman or a woman with small children. We walked a lot farther than that in the covered wagon days! But I can see how some may feel that it’s a safety issue, or that it’s difficult to walk- especially if you have more than one, either in the belly or on your hands!

Note: I don’t know if any of the pregnant women here have had “round ligament pain,” but I have, in my first and current pregnancies. It’s quite painful to walk sometimes. Not that I think I should be granted a special parking spot just for that, but that’s just one example of pregnancy woes.

JLeslie's avatar

I think part of it is business. The store wants to encorage the mother to make shopping there a routine, especially if her family is growing. Also, it is not the same as being overweight, because the majority of the weight is in one place. If a pregnant woman walks into the ladies room and she is practially wriggling, I let her ahead of me. If she gets a closer parking spot I am fine with that too.

Now, I am not fine with other things regarding pregnancy and children, because I agree for the most part you choose to have children. Like at the workplace I find it unfair for parents to work different hours than what is available to non-parents, or take time off that non-parents don’t get. It should be fair in that situation. I think most companies do make it fair. I have other examples but you get my drift.

poofandmook's avatar

okay, but I’m still going to park in those spots when I have to drag myself to the store with sciatica! It’s practically handicapped. lol

Am I the only one who isn’t seeing tinyfaery as bitter? O.o

tinyfaery's avatar

I don’t want kids. And I shouldn’t have less privilege or less opportunity because of it.

Those of you so insistant on giving mothers and parents special privileges would be the first to yell discrimination when privileges are given to certain other groups of people.

ubersiren's avatar

@poofandmook : If your sciatica is that debilitating, perhaps you should get handicap tags.

eponymoushipster's avatar

@tinyfaery oh, so that’s what this is? a veiled complaint about gay rights?

casheroo's avatar

@tinyfaery I have no attacked you at all. I think it’s funny you say your mother or people older than all of us had a lot more to deal with. I find that during pregnancy, I’m treated like an invalid by usually elderly people. They dote on me, don’t think I should be doing anything at all…even caring for my toddler! It doesn’t make sense to me, since my grandmother had 7 kids and did most of it all on her own, why she thinks I’m incapable of caring for a toddler while pregnant is beyond me.

tinyfaery's avatar

Get over yourself and stop assuming. Read what I am writing. The only person that brought up me being gay is you. And you outed me.

casheroo's avatar

@ubersiren Round ligament pain…ugh don’t remind me! I didn’t have any in the first trimester and it was so bad in my first pregnancy, I thought I got lucky this time :( I also have that sciatic pain this time around… @poofandmook how do you deal with it?! At least you can take things like Advil, pregnant women can’t and it’s horrible.

RandomMrdan's avatar

@eponymoushipster I thought that from the moment I read this question actually, but I felt I would give her the benefit of the doubt…

@tinyfaery Life isn’t fair, you should probably have already known this. As far as all this parking space business goes, I’d try to forget about it, it’s rather petty compared to everything in a big picture. Just try to understand that there are times that people need help, just like one day you’ll need that extra bit of help. Not that it’s unfair, it’s just a nice thing to do for a specific group of people.

ItalianPrincess1217's avatar

@Tinyfaery You don’t want kids and shouldn’t be less privileged because of that? I don’t have children and I accept the fact that those who do have children or who are about to have children get “special treatment”. I think it’s actually a nice gesture. Same goes for people who need to use a handicap space.

Likeradar's avatar

“Those of you so insistant on giving mothers and parents special privileges would be the first to yell discrimination when privileges are given to certain other groups of people.”

Wow, way to generalize falsely.
How about you read the responses to your question and actually think about it next time you go to a busy parking lot. Try to put yourself in their shoes- picture walking through that lot with a kid or two in each hand, or carrying returns while pushing a stroller and trying to prevent a kid from getting flattened by an absentminded driver. It’s hard.

Or did you just want people to rise up in celebration of you noticing this severe injustice?~

veronasgirl's avatar

@tinyfaery, It is about courtesy, I don’t understand why this is such a huge deal if you say you don’t have a problem walking. Pregnant Women getting special treatment is about trying to make their lives a little easier, and as several people have pointed out, some women don’t even take advantage of these courtesies. But that IS the whole point of the parking spots for not only new and expectant mothers, but also the handicapped it is a courtesy and it is to make their day a little easier. And there is nothing wrong with that.

LJC's avatar

Trying to get back on track and just answer the proposed question here…

I think, like everything in America, it is a marketing scheme. There was a deliberate choice to do this, and I bet it wasn’t parents and mothers to be that influenced the choice, but rather the marketing team of the business. From my experience those stores are most frequented by that demographic, so catering to them seems like good business.

eponymoushipster's avatar

@tinyfaery in.every.thread. you out yourself. please, say “my wife” here in this one, too. please.

Those of you so insistant on giving mothers and parents special privileges would be the first to yell discrimination when privileges are given to certain other groups of people.

geez, do you mean cross-dressing nazi eskimos? their little feet make it hard to walk?
you already said “fat” people don’t get that treatment. so you don’t mean them. as a straight man, i’d love a parking space with nudie pics and a keg stand nearby. can you post a Q about that?

gussnarp's avatar

@tinyfaery – How are we supposed to take your clearly anti-child attitude if not personally? The only place I have seen pregnant woman parking was at Baby’s R Us. Hmm, catering to the only reason you are in business, seems to me to be a smart marketing decision. I think it is interesting that someone who argues that a couple should be able to choose who comes to their wedding (you’re right, they should) would then argue that a business can’t choose how to dole our their parking spaces. The business wants to be considerate, so be it. Look, I used to be fairly anti-child myself, as I was, and still am, a supporter of zero population growth, but frankly, most people don’t feel that way. Frankly, if there were no parents, there would be no children. That means no new Einsteins, Michelangelos, or Ghandis. It also means our entire economy would fall apart. Someone has to reproduce, and we can’t force people to do it or not to do it or decide how many times they do it. So we ought to respect the choice. And until you know how difficult it is to be a pregnant woman or a parent of a new child, you should begrudge them this little courtesy.

poofandmook's avatar

@casheroo: I was sort of half-joking. And sure, I can take those things, but they don’t work. Nothing works. Truthfully, at this point since I drive a minivan that I can barely get into because of my height.. if I’m having sciatica, I’m probably not even getting into my vehicle.

@ubersiren: My doc actually offered, but I declined, because it doesn’t happen often enough for me to feel comfortable with it.

JLeslie's avatar

Gosh, everyone is really pouncing on @tinyfaery. I don’t think it is anti-child to want things to be fair. Seems @tinyfaery viewed it as unfair treatment.

tinyfaery's avatar

I was a child counselor for 6 years. Yeah. I hate kids. I took care of kids that parents threw away.

I don’t have to assume some of you have problems with
certain people getting certain perceived privileges. I’ve read it right here on fluther.

So I’m over it. It’s not a big
deal. It’s still an unwarranted privilege to me. But as someone else said, the
breeders are the one’s in charge.

And breeder is not heterosexual. Plenty of gay people breed.

veronasgirl's avatar

@JLeslie But WHY is it considered unfair treatment?

RandomMrdan's avatar

@JLeslie I’m all about fair treatment too, but I’m not making claims against pregnant women.

JLeslie's avatar

I said I was for the parking spaces, I am fine with it. I let pregnant people ahead of me in the ladies room. I always give up my seat to pregnant women (which by the way sometimes there are men sitting all around me who don’t). Still there are women who have no problem with pregnancy and don’t really need the space, who might use it. But, if they need it have at it.

ragingloli's avatar

yeah as a society whose primary goal is to assure continuing existence , we should absolutely not accomodate those who take on the duty of achieving this goal by having children. let us instead show them that what they do is unimportant so that no more children are born and raised to make humanity go extinct as fast as possible.
great thinking there.

poofandmook's avatar

@ragingloli: Except, tinyfaery didn’t say anything like that. Please point out where she did and I will humbly shut up.

ubersiren's avatar

And everyone should probably read this, not just tinyfaery.

@tinyfaery : I like you a lot. That being said:

This isn’t the first time you’ve posted a question about discrimination against people without kids. It makes me believe you’re a little bitter, or even somewhat elitist about choosing not not have kids. The fact is that you chose to not have kids just like we chose to have kids. Either way it’s a choice and there are burdens to bear. The burdens are different because we are different. We all have different needs. Rather than saying “I want what my neighbor has” why don’t we all say, “Let’s help make life easier for my neighbor?” Let’s all try a little understanding for what our neighbors may be experiencing. I think some understanding and compassion on all aspects of life would do this world a lot of good. There is so much hypocrisy… people say “I’m a minority because of this and that, and I want my voice to be heard and life to be easier for me,” then they turn around and say, “Why is this other special needs person getting so much attention?”

It doesn’t make sense to me.

eponymoushipster's avatar

Having children is both a privilege and a responsibility – taken either purposefully or by accident – and anyone who accepts that responsibility deserves some special treatment. they’ve decided to limit themselves, give up a lot of freedom (or all of it) and put another person’s life ahead of their own.

if they’ve given up so much, why can’t they get a few small leeways – say, a parking spot, moving to the front of a line or being given a seat on the train?

in some countries, it’s the height of rudeness to not give up your seat to a pregnant woman. this Q would probably make them shudder

casheroo's avatar

@tinyfaery “But as someone else said, the
breeders are the one’s in charge.”
Who said that? I read the whole thread, and I only saw you use breeder as a derogatory remark. :(

ragingloli's avatar

@poofandmook
That is what I think is implied by her exclamations.
By saying that having children is a choice and that this therefore does not merit special treatment means that the task a parent has taken on is not important enough to warrant it.
It is the same as saying “It was your choice becoming an ambulance driver/policeman/firefighter, but you don’t deserve to have priority in traffic to do your job.”

tinyfaery's avatar

Eponymous used breeder.

I’m not bitter. That’s everyone’s assumption. I’m just not one of those people that think having kids is special.

I’m don’t think I’m special for not having kids. And I don’t think people are special if they do.

And now I have to work.

Frankie's avatar

I think it’s pretty obvious this wasn’t a real discussion. @tinyfaery asked a question but wasn’t really interested in an answer…she already had her answer and wasn’t interested in hearing any sort of defense for pregnant women, as shown by her general hostility from the beginning and, as @casheroo said, her obvious contempt for “breeders.” I think it’s probably time to let this question die out.

eponymoushipster's avatar

I used breeder in a sarcastic sense (in the above quip that was modded, for whatever reason).

tinyfaery's avatar

Oh. I guess I can’t be sarcastic. Only eponymous.

JLeslie's avatar

I still defend @tinyfaery even though I don’t agree with her in this instance. I don’t think she is being hateful in any way.

cwilbur's avatar

I agree with @tinyfaery as far as special unofficial workplace privileges for people with kids, and I’m just saying that up front.

However, I don’t have a problem with preferred parking for people with children. The company that owns the parking lot gets to determine who parks where, and as long as there’s a legitimate reason for the rule and it’s enforced fairly, I don’t have a problem with it.

Sure, it irritates me when I see two open parking spaces conveniently close and then I see that I can’t park there. It also irritates me when I drive to work and all the convenient and open parking spaces say “RESERVED – Building Manager” or “RESERVED – Security staff.” But there’s a legitimate reason for the rule and the rule is being enforced fairly.

gussnarp's avatar

So here’s a question, where are these special parking spaces? As I said, I’ve only seen expectant mother parking at Baby’s R Us, and I can’t see why anyone shopping there would have a problem with it. I’ve never seen parents with small children parking, but tell me where it is so I can patronize that business, because I want it. But seriously, I’d like to know where these places are, so how about it @tinyfaery, in all seriousness, where are these signs that have offended you so?

casheroo's avatar

@tinyfaery You were not being sarcastic with the way you refer to people as breeders. You’ve shown hatred in the past for people who have children, for whatever reason.

casheroo's avatar

@gussnarp I see them at grocery stores in my area, such as Acme, SuperFresh, Giant, we also have the at bulk stores like BJ’s and Costco. Those are the only places I’ve seen them at (other than BRU)

JLeslie's avatar

@gussnarp I have the spaces at a supermarket where I live.

tinyfaery's avatar

OMFG. It was a fuckin’ joke. It’s called sarcasm. I do it all the time. Why is it so offensive now?

eponymoushipster's avatar

I worked at a library that had a space for people dropping off books. Were people who don’t read being discriminated against?

gussnarp's avatar

Wow, that would be so cool. I live in a town full of Catholics who breed like rabbits and we don’t have this. If I could park closer with my small child it would play a major role in my choice of grocery store. And there we have the real answer to the question: they may or may not deserve it, but it makes good business sense. Families buy more groceries than single people or childless couples. Parents of young children pay a fortune for formula, baby food and diapers, high volume, high profit items. I think any supermarket that does this probably sees a direct link to profits.

gussnarp's avatar

@eponymoushipster Actually, that’s a good point. Even people who want to read there and not check out are being discriminated against. Why am I discriminated against at the pizza place for eating in and not getting carry out?

gussnarp's avatar

@tinyfaery Wait, which part was a joke? Therein lies the problem with all discussion on the internet, text doesn’t convey tone of voice or body language and smiley faces are annoying.

poofandmook's avatar

@gussnarp: lots of grocery stores have those spots here in NJ.

poofandmook's avatar

@eponymoushipster: Lay off her already, please. This amount of attack really isn’t warranted.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@tinyfaery you’re right, pregnancy is a choice and many people, stores, etc. choose to not punish that choice – this, to you, should be about attempting empathy and I, as a fellow activist, would argue in defense of ALL groups discriminated against…but I don’t see how you’re being discriminated against here, as a childless person ‘willing to walk’...

eponymoushipster's avatar

@poofandmook i’m not attacking anyone. im stating facts.

MissAusten's avatar

I used to like those spots, when I had a toddler and was pregnant, or when I had a toddler and an infant. Unless you’ve had to run errands with little kids, you have no idea what a pain it is to navigate a parking lot.

Of course, there is only one such parking spot in this entire town. It’s in front of CVS, which I rarely visit. When I have been to CVS with small children, that spot is almost always taken. I think I got to use it once. No big deal. There’s a Babies R Us about an hour from here with several of those spots. I don’t see how that can bother anyone because most people shopping there would have a small child or be pregnant.

The grocery store here used to have a couple of spots for parents (not just moms) with small children. Several months ago when the parking lot was redone they took down those parking signs and haven’t replaced them. There were three of them, and they were always filled when I went to the store.

Anyway, I think it’s a nice gesture on the part of the stores who offer those spots. I don’t begrudge people those spots because I don’t begrudge thoughtfulness for others. I can’t really put it any better than @ubersiren did above. She summed it up very well.

poofandmook's avatar

@eponymoushipster: they are veiled attacks… come on, nobody here is blind, or stupid. Please just let it go already. We know how you feel. Just drop it. Continuing it only reflects poorly on you and you know that.

gussnarp's avatar

I always thought it was funny that Baby’s R Us has expectant mother parking, but not parents with small children parking. So as soon as that baby comes out and you are carrying it around in a car seat you no longer qualify? But hey, it doesn’t rise to the level of injustice.

sandystrachan's avatar

I sure as hell wouldn’t want my partially sighted pregnant wife to humph shopping , and children all the way to the other end of a parking lot .
I think someone @poofandmook is jumping on the stop arguing bandwagon

IBERnineD's avatar

Where I live the spots for pregnant women have limits, for instance there will be a picture of a pregnant lady and then under it will say: 6–8 months. I always assumed they set aside parking in case a pregnant woman went into labor and had to leave immediately. It’s easier for them to get to the car in such a case, rather than running through the parking lot.

poofandmook's avatar

Let’s really be honest here: Women are generally the stay-at-home moms, the household economists… the ones doing the shopping. It’s entirely marketing. I know you pregnant moms appreciate them, but know it really had nothing to do with you being pregnant as much as you being a happy shopper so you’d spend more money. Those spots aren’t as noble as they appear.

jhp's avatar

“Someone please explain why pregnant women or those with small children deserve special parking spaces?”

-The owners of the lots have the legal right to set up the special parking spaces and want to set up the special parking spaces. If this constitutes discrimination, have it made illegal, that would solve the problem.

“Fat people don’t get special spaces.”
-Yes and no, if they are large enough to be legally handicapped, they can park in the handicapped spots.

“People who are picking up a lot of stuff at the store don’t have special parking spaces.”

-Many stores have special pick-up spots/lanes.

“I just think this is another example of special treatment for parents and pregnant women.”
-Absolutely it is.

Dr_C's avatar

I think it’s been mentioned in the thread before (beat to death actually) but we seem to forgo basic courtesy in our every day lives. Being pregnant is not a disability… but it does carry with it a degree of inconvenience. Having small children is not a disability, but requires more attention and a degree of caution in otherwise mundane situations.

Different people will have different needs and it has nothing to do with fairness. Maybe you could argue that “these people made a choice to have children so why should I pay for it?” to which i would answer.. they are already paying for it in some way living with added inconveniences. Also…. you chose to shop at that establishment also… so why should you get a better parking spot over someone else?

I think everyone could be a bit more considerate in their daily lives. It would make life a lot easier. And lay off people with special needs, you never know what it’s like until you’re in the situation.

sandystrachan's avatar

Won’t someone PLEASE think of the children !!!
After all they are the future .

whitenoise's avatar

I think it is great that people make little people. Let’s get them into the store safely and over a short disctance.

Small children as well – get them to the store over as short a distance possible. Lowers their chances of being squashed by the likes of @tinyfaery who don’t seem to be willing to adjust tot their presence. ;-)

~(Fat people need the walk – exercise them)~

casheroo's avatar

@IBERnineD Being that this is my second, I would totally grocery shop while in labor…but I would run out of there if my water broke, out of embarrassment! lol

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@sandystrachan I agree with you
I was going to say something along those lines and also along the lines of ‘people don’t have children to get special privileges and if they do, that’s rare and they’re stupid for doing so’

SuperMouse's avatar

I agree with those who say this is a marketing ploy. I see them mostly at stores that cater to moms with kids such as Toys R Us or suburban grocery stores. They are a marketing ploy and a waste of space.

Having experienced three pregnancies, the second time when the oldest was only seven months, I never felt I was owed anything. The safety of my children in a parking lot? My responsibility. That’s why I had them always place two hands on the car until I got the younger ones out and situated, then I grabbed their hands. Even when toting a newborn, a 2 year-old and a 3 year-old, everyone managed to get safely from car to curb without a special spot. I am proud to say that all three of my children have reached school age and we haven’t had a single parking lot mishap!

I don’t see why @tinyfaery is being accused of being bitter or disliking children. Let’s face it, there is discrimination against childless people of a certain age. If a woman has approached or passed her 30’s and has no children it is assumed that she is an old maid, or barren, or a cold hearted bitch who doesn’t have enough love in her heart to be a mom. Unfortunately, I think this thread points up that bias. Personally, I don’t buy any of those stereotypes any more than I buy the one that says pregnancy = handicap.

You know what just occurred to me? Why aren’t there any spots reserved for Fathers with young children?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@SuperMouse there are stigmas attached to childless people but this question doesn’t describe such a thing and you’re completely right there have to spots reserved for fathers with young children – my husband is a stay at home dad and feels very excluded from a lot of things in our society

SuperMouse's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir no, the question does not describe such a thing, but some of the responses seem to reflect such an attitude.

gussnarp's avatar

@SuperMouse – regarding discrimination against childless people of a certain age, I really couldn’t disagree more. I’ve never considered a childless woman to be an old maid, barren, or cold hearted, and I can’t imagine anyone I know who would. I’m sure there are people who feel that way, but I don’t think it is the least bit common. And that is just an attitude or comment. As to outright discrimination, real unfair treatment, I have never seen an instance of it outside of the tax code. Setting aside a handful of parking spaces for pregnant women is not discrimination against anyone who is not pregnant. As to signs for fathers with young children, again I’ve never seen the mothers of young children signs, do they say “mothers” or “parents”? If they said “mothers” and I was at a store with my toddler, I would park there and dare anyone to tell me it didn’t apply to dads. I will say that our society likes to imagine that dads don’t do any real parenting. Everything is all about mom, which moms deserve in general, but I think involved dads are undervalued.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@gussnarp and I agree with you, as well as I do with @SuperMouse
I just don’t think our society is all that ‘hung up’ on providing mothers with things
and please, please, no one mention the whole ‘oh look at those single mothers/welfare queens having children to take MY tax dollars’ or I’m going to gag

casheroo's avatar

@SuperMouse It says “Mothers to Be” and “Parents of Infants” on the signs in my area. So, fathers are only excluded from the mothers to be part.

OpryLeigh's avatar

@tinyfaery Just out of interest, how do you feel about people giving up their seat on the bus for a heavily pregnant woman? Would you do so yourself?

I know there is no law that says you have to do so, so it’s not really about equality in that situation, merely compassion and kindness but I suppose, because there is no law about it that does make it about equality because by law you have as much right to be in that seat as said pregnant lady.

mrentropy's avatar

I don’t see a problem with just being nice, even if it’s to bring in additional business.

I’m sure if we all had our way there would always be one empty spot in the front for us.

Then again, I’m the sucker that will pass up a close spot for one further up just in case someone else really needs it.

gussnarp's avatar

I’ve never been on the bus where someone who was older or pregnant, or even struggling with a small child, or just seemed unsteady on their feet wasn’t offered a seat near the front. In the U.S. I have seen astonishingly rude behavior on buses in Italy. Fortunately, I think the majority of people think a pregnant woman deserves a break, so if the person in the first seat doesn’t think they should get up, odds are the one in the second seat will, so no one will know how rude seat 1 really is.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@qussnarp
ha, you should hang around NYC subways more often – I remember with both of my pregnancies how often people wouldn’t get up and I’d stand there for an hour (!) commuting home from work or school or what have you and I’d stare at them wishing them all sorts of diarrhea and other bad things for being so god damn inconsiderate.

tinyfaery's avatar

I am one of the most curteous people I know. I give up seats, I let people cut in front of me in line. I move my seats in movie theaters if people want to sit together. I give money on a monthly basis to animal, children, and other charities. This is my choice.

I don’t really care about your assumptions. A few people who I know and respect on this site know where I am coming from and that’s what matters.

I’ll make sure when I disagree with some of you I will show you the same curteousy you have all shown me.

Skippy's avatar

Sort of like the “Family Bathrooms” That could seem to be a problem since at the mall, it’s the first door down the hallway. Where were they when my boys were small and I was ridiculed for taking BOYS into the womans room and using the Handicapped stall so they would be out of the way….my have things changed.

Having special parking and special bathrooms is now a consideration. With so many people being so busy, it’s tough to get off work, pick up a child at a daycare, pop in the grocery and get home to have some quality time. I see this far too often moms & dad’s too hurrying into the store with little ones in tow and the ‘folks in a hurry’ honking and getting pissed that the kid stopped to tie a shoe, pick up a toy. But in special spots, the parents have a moment to gather them up and get into the store quicker and safer for everyone.

gussnarp's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I guess NYC deserves its reputation. I guess since I’ve never lived there I haven’t spent enough time on the subway to see that in action. Although I have seen people use their strollers (with infants in them) to block the doors to get on a departing train. Sheesh.

OpryLeigh's avatar

@tinyfaery I have not made any assumptions about you, I asked that question about the bus out of curiosity more than anything.

Like you, I choose not to have children (at least biogically for now) but have never had an issue (mainly because I have never thought about it enough to create an issue in my mind) with these parking spaces. Like others have said, it is good marketing for the shops and a bit of courtesy. I am all for equal rights when it comes to race, sexuality, gender but I do believe that we can take things to far when it comes to equal rights and if we were to get rid of these parking space that would be a prime example of equal rights gone too far. I think there are far too many other issues to worry about in the grand scheme of things.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@gussnarp hell, I love my city, I would never trade its progressiness for anything even if I do have to stand pregnant on subways…

MissAusten's avatar

I think what immediately sets people on edge with this question is, partly, the way it is worded. I’m a parent of three, as I mentioned before, and I certainly don’t think I deserve special parking spots. I would be more disgusted by someone throwing a fit about how they deserve this or that kind of special treatment for whatever reason than by someone getting annoyed that such accommodations are sometimes made for those people.

The vast majority of the time, when I’m out with my kids, I don’t even notice or think of the lack of parking spots for parents. I don’t know anyone with children who feels like stores should provide these things consistently or otherwise cater to their status as the caregivers of young children. I’d be kind of irritated if I had to listen to someone bitch about not getting special treatment because they have children with them. If I go somewhere that turns out not to be kid-friendly, I just don’t go there with kids in the future.

Also, for the record, I am perfectly fine with people choosing to not have children. I have good friends my age (mid-30’s) who don’t have children and don’t plan on ever having children. It doesn’t change the way I think of them at all. Parenting is hard, and contrary to popular belief, producing a child doesn’t guarantee instant love and perfect parenting of that child for the rest of your life. It’s hard. It’s not for everyone. I do think that people who don’t like children or ignore/avoid them are missing out on some of the funniest creatures on the planet. For example, my four year old is sitting here coloring and singing “Be Italian” from the musical “Nine.” Freakin’ hilarious, especially when he gets to the “pinch me where there’s fat” line.

Response moderated
poofandmook's avatar

the personal attacks in this thread are astounding. they also make me wonder why I came back to Fluther.

MacBean's avatar

Jeez, people. @tinyfaery wasn’t being bitter about anything until everyone jumped down her throat for asking an honest question. And then she got bitter about that, not the original topic. Back the fuck off.

.
Personally, I hate how deified people who choose to have kids are. But I’ve gotta say, I like the idea of closer parking spaces for people with small children. I’m definitely a non-breeder, but I like kids a lot, and I sure as hell don’t want any of them running out in front of my car in the parking lot. Keep ‘em close to the store, sez me.

Edited to add: @pdworkin: Better hope it’s not me, either.

gussnarp's avatar

@MacBean I just don’t see where people get off saying people who choose to have kids are deified. Just saying it makes you sound bitter, because that kind of grandiose statement indicates a lack of objectivity on your point.

MissAusten's avatar

Those of us who have children are not responsible for the mass marketing of products and services designed to help us part with our money.

That said, if someone wants to deify me, please feel free. Since I rarely have time to do things like shave my legs, wear my hair in some fashion other than an unflattering bun, and tend to have bleach spots or stains on my clothing, a bit of worship now and then sounds like just the ticket. Point me to the deifiers, I’m ready for some genuflections! Just let me finish cleaning the bathroom where my six year old seems to have terrible aim first.

MacBean's avatar

@gussnarp I admit to being a bit biased. It’s hard not to be when all of my friends are married and have kids and I’m treated like a freak—by strangers usually, not by my friends—because I am not and have no plans to be married or a parent.

OpryLeigh's avatar

@MacBean I know that feeling

ubersiren's avatar

Deitied? I just scrubbed poop out of my kid’s scrotum folds.

casheroo's avatar

@ubersiren lol4rl!! Ugh, it’s amazing how poop can stick to a scrotum. I still think boy diapers are easier than girl diapers though lol

MissAusten's avatar

@ubersiren Thank God my scrotum-scrubbing days are over!

MacBean's avatar

@ubersiren—See, that’s the point at which I start deifying you. Deciding to have a kid? Not that special. Keeping your patience while changing diapers? Special. XD

Darwin's avatar

Actually, I have found treatment to run the opposite way. We no longer go many places because we have kids. The kids aren’t welcome or it is too difficult to keep them happy, so we don’t go. Personally, I think I am lucky to have kids (although we had to “buy” them instead of make them – as a couple we were infertile), even though many other people don’t seem to like kids in general.

OTOH, any sort of “special” parking is not a right. However, it does make life easier for everybody and a civilized society really should be a gracious society. If we don’t add those bits of graciousness one place, then as a civilized society we may have to pay tax dollars in another to make up for it.I say this because my husband literally cannot go to stores where he would have to walk a long distance. Although I can go to those stores for him, if he were living alone he would end up needing social services (paid for by your tax dollars) in order to stay healthy, eat a decent diet, and so on because he can’t go out and do it for himself.

And while pregnancy is not a required condition of any kind, some pregnant women have a worse time of it than others, and really welcome not having to walk any further than necessary with swollen ankles, back pain, or simply carrying a huge belly in front of them. And shop-owners are very aware that a lawsuit from a pregnant woman slipping and falling in the parking lot will be a much greater hassle than just setting aside a few close parking spots.

While handicapped parking is required by law any other special parking is not. However, business owners are not stupid. Anything that makes it easier to bring paying customers in the door is a good idea. Hence, the existence of mother-to-be parking, take out parking, drive-through pharmacies, and many other ploys to make your store more attractive than the next one over.

eponymoushipster's avatar

i’m glad poop and my scrotum have nothing to do with each other anymore.

Aethelwine's avatar

@Darwin You just reminded me of an excellent reason why this is a good thing for pregnant women or parents with small children. I was pregnant with my daughter during the winter and I was very grateful for these parking spaces. It’s hard enough walking in the snow and ice, let alone doing it when you are pregnant.

Val123's avatar

You have designated parking places for pregnant women??? How funny! I ran a day care once, and often hauled around 7 to 10 kids. It would have been nice to always be able to park close to where ever, for safety reasons…...so you could get the kids out of the parking lot ASAP. But when it was just me and my own two, there was no problem. Just hold their hand.

Oh and also, to address the issue that “fat people” don’t get privileged parking…have you ever noticed how many fat people have handicapped stickers?

dalepetrie's avatar

I can’t believe this thread has this many comments on it. Basically it’s a marketing tool, like ladies night. The theory behind it is that pregnant women and people with small children do have their mobility impaired, when compared to able bodied people who aren’t pregnant or don’t have small kids. Certainly there are fat people and people with broken bones, and people with all manner of things that keep them from moving as fast out of harm’s way…esentially crossing a parking lot is like walking into a street. So, from that point of view, we accept as a society laws to give special spaces to people who are permanently disabled, so that if they have difficulty moving quickly out of the path of traffic, they can be given a shorter distance to walk. Both pregnancy and having small kids are temporary, not something you could really legislate (or even should) special parking rights for. But some businesses, probably ones owned by women whom themselves had been pregnant at one time, decided hey, we could designate a couple of the spots close to the front of the store as being for women who are pregnant or with small children…might make them more likely to come here instead of to the competitor. Is it really any different than say putting up a couple of spots at Chili’s for picking up your to go order, or a couple spots near the front of the grocery store for pharmacy use only, so if you want to just run in quick and pick up your prescription you can (here I suppose a it helps some people who have infirmities that make them less mobile if even temporarily)? Or what about someone’s work or school that has the employee of the month spot, or the United Way top giver spot, or the special spot for any individual or special purpose…these all exist. And none of them are really enforceable by law, they are put up as a courtesy to whatever person or group of people the establishment wants to extend and extra courtesy to. I know that a lot of these popped up after my son was born and my wife wished they’d had them when she was pregnant, because she was very uncomfortable and felt her mobility was very limited. Just a nice thing.

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] A little late, but can we please discuss this without insulting one another?

augustlan's avatar

augustlan says:

These spots came into being too late for me, but when I first saw one I was thrilled. Not so much because of the ‘small children’ aspect, but because I could hardly walk at all in my 3rd trimesters. I only ever thought of it as a nice thing the store was doing (for self-serving/profit motives, to be sure) – but not something enforceable by law.

Response moderated
poofandmook's avatar

apparently someone missed the mod note…

jca's avatar

I don’t see a problem with a little courtesy, giving up a spot or two for a pregnant mom or mom with a baby. You don’t know till you have been pregnant or have a baby what it’s like. If i can walk fine and have to walk fifteen seconds longer because i had to park twenty feet farther to give a pregnant person a spot, so be it.

I think the hostility toward @tinyfaery is due to her use of the word “deserve.” This wording indicates bitterness to me. I think if she wrote it like “Can someone please explain why pregnant women or those with small children should have designated parking spaces” she may have come off a little more impartial, but she chose wording which i feel is more inflamatory, abrasive, hostile.

As far as a spot for a woman with a small child, yes, it’s my responsibility to keep the child safe. but as anyone with a baby or toddler knows, kids sometimes do things that are unpredictable and they are very quick about it, so anything that can help keep the little ones safe is welcomed. This also reduces the liability on part of the drivers that may be mowing kids down, if not for a nice close parking spot. Would i rather pull into a parking lot with kids breaking away from their parents or pull into a lot with the kid getting out right close to the store entrance?

RedPowerLady's avatar

@jca Really good answer!

Val123's avatar

@jca X2. Also, consider, the longer a little kid is in a parking lot, the greater the chances of an accident happening, especially if there is more than one or two.

MacBean's avatar

Oh and also, to address the issue that “fat people” don’t get privileged parking…have you ever noticed how many fat people have handicapped stickers?

They don’t have handicapped stickers because they’re fat. They have them because they have a disability. Handicapped stickers are not given out for obesity. I promise. There’s something else wrong.

Also, @pdworkin—If agreeing with @tinyfaery on this topic, as well as being like her in the areas of giving up seats, letting people cut me in line, rearranging myself in movie theaters and other public places for the convenience of others, and giving of myself (time, in my case, since I have no money to give) to various charities makes me (and her) “indifferent to the suffering of [my] fellows,” sure. I gladly do all of those things because I choose to. I would not do it nearly as gladly if I had to because someone else decided that the group in question deserved it.

whitenoise's avatar

It seems there are a lot of people upset over a sensible instrument for traffic management around (semi) public places. Why bother?

Even if you dislike it, don’t you see the rationale in trying to keep children away from parking places? This is not just to benefit the (lazy) parent! Drivers around parking lots only pay attention to one thing: vacant spots. Parking lots are dangerous. My kids are well behaved and listen well, but still they are easily overlooked.

I am sure no one here on this thread wants to be in a situation where one has to get out of the car without words and not knowing what to say to the mother that looks in anguish at what used to be her child. Stop fuzzing about privileges to parents with young children. Such fuzzing is an insult to your intelligence.

Now for pregnant women and why we should cut them slack. Well… there are the obvious marketing reasons mentioned before, but there is more. Besides just being courteous, we also need to realize being pregnant isn’t fun, but still extremely beneficial to the rest of society.

Becoming a parent is not an economical bliss that is enjoyed by egotistical people. Our society needs young people, so we need parents. Parents and especially mothers have to give up a lot. Being pregnant reeks havoc on your body and having children puts one back in a monetary way that is unrivaled by any other decision one may take.

So even if all it would be, was just a way to compensate the young or soon-to-be parent, well let it be. Young mothers deserve some slack, from my point of view.

And hey…. I love you all! [even you @tinyfaery ;-) ]

RedPowerLady's avatar

I would just add that pregnancy comes with a lot of health issues. Some very serious. And many mothers are put on restrictions of how much moving around they can do. Others just get very winded from walking far. And yet others have a poor sense of balance and concentration due to the pregnancy. It is just much much safer to have a pregnant woman closer to the store. Hitting anyone with a car is a horrible affair, hitting a pregnant woman is a doubly horrible affair.

johanna's avatar

For heavens sake – anyone who doesn’t get it: try putting at least of 20 pounds of weight on your tummy that presses down on your bladder and forces your pelvis apart, gives you hemorrhoids and varicose veins, shortness of breath and painful, swollen feet that wont fit into normal shoes and THEN tell me you don’t get it.
And weather being pregnant is a choice or not – what does it matter? If all people stopped being pregnant who will wipe your asses one day when you need it or find a cure for all the diseases that might hit you one day? Just be thankful someone is providing labor.
How about some effin compassion for people in pain – pregnant, mothers, handicapped or otherwise. Like some wise people in this thread have already stated – what is wrong with simply doing a nice thing for someone else and making their life easier?

RedPowerLady's avatar

@johanna I agree, compassion is the key!

Val123's avatar

@MacBean Actually, that leads to a question I’ve been thinking of posting….many obese people are in wheel chairs, which leads to the question, did their obesity lead to the problems they have which lead them to the wheel chair (or handicapped parking) or did the inactivity of being in a wheel chair lead to their obesity….?

ccrow's avatar

I live in southern Maine & have never seen these… although as a middle aged grandma, I haven’t looked for them. When I had young children, I drove a large vehicle & always parked where it was easy for me, which generally meant further away from the store. Although I’m sure that if one asked the management of any store with these parking spaces they would cite safety, courtesy, etc. the real answer is the almighty dollar. They know if they provide convenient parking, moms-to-be & parents with toddlers will patronize their stores instead of their competitors who don’t have designated spaces. So whether they ‘deserve’ special spaces or not is irrelevant.

ubersiren's avatar

@ccrow : You’re probably right. Welcome to fluther!

rooeytoo's avatar

I believe in courtesy, I will give my seat to ANYONE who seems to need it more than I.

But I am an equalist, I want equality for me, a female. Because of that I think that anything that puts females in a position where they are getting “special” treatment in one instance, makes it more difficult to demand equality in other areas.

I also view motherhood as a career choice and an important one but not necessarily one that is more deserving of special treatment than any other career choice.

MissAusten's avatar

@johanna Hey! I never once got hemorrhoids, so don’t lump me in with that group! ;) Seriously, that was my biggest fear during pregnancy, labor, and delivery, and each time I was sooooooooooooo thankful to avoid it.

SuperMouse's avatar

@whitenoise, as much as I would like to think so, I did not have my children for the good of society. I had my kids because I wanted to be a mom and have that experience. I certainly hope they grow up to be contributing members of society and I am doing my best to guide them in that direction, but one of them curing cancer was not my primary reason for having them. I would venture a guess that in her lifetime @tinyfaery will have done as much for society not having had children as I will by having them.

If a woman who is pregnant is dealing with complications that cause her difficulty breathing or walking long distances, she should be given a temporary handicapped placard.

I think it is interesting to equate someone’s thinking these parking spaces are a bit over the top with someone being inconsiderate enough not give their seat on a public transportation to a pregnant woman. To me that is comparing apples and oranges.

On the safety factor” Who is responsibility is it to make sure I don’t run anyone over in a parking lot? Mine. I do my best to keep that from happening by driving very slowly in said parking lot and being very attentive to my surroundings. A child is just as capable of darting in front of a car from the first spot in the row as he is from the 15th spot. I’m just saying…

As I mentioned in another thread, there is more to handicapped spots than being close to the entrance. Often disabled folks who use wheelchairs need the extra space these spots provide to get a lift up and down and get into and out of the car. Again, comparing these spots to handicapped spots is apples and oranges.

JLeslie's avatar

In the US we don’t have much problem with our population declining. They do see this prblem in parts of Europe and the government has gone out of its way to help and reward women for having babies.

Pregnant women, if they have health problem associated with their pregnancy can get a temporary handicap sticker.

I think someone mentioned that in NY people do not give their seats to pregnant people. I find it awful every time I see it happen. I always do, probably because my mother always did, but I many times am the only one standing up on the subway to relinquish my seat. Pregnant women all of a sudden have a bunch of weight in front of them, their center of gravity probably changes slightly. I also give up my seat for mother holding infants, it’s not safe for them to be standing…you might be the person they fall on top of. @SuperMouse why is this apples and oranges to you?

SuperMouse's avatar

@JLeslie I don’t see how @tinyfaery‘s asking about these special parking spots was equated with her not being willing to give up her seat for a pregnant woman. That’s what is apples and oranges to me. Her wondering about these spots doesn’t mean she is an inconsiderate person.

MacBean's avatar

@Val123: I don’t have any links or statistics to back this up, but in my personal experience—first-person and others that I know—it’s far more common for the disability to cause the weight problems than the other way around.

JLeslie's avatar

@SuperMouse Yeah, I agree with you, I must have read something to fast.

JLeslie's avatar

@MacBean Somehow in the US I doubt it, although I do persoanlly know people who have put on weight do to injury or health. But, 1 in 3 children in our country are obese now. I think it is 60% of adults last I heard. People are just fat.

dpworkin's avatar

Maybe we could make the fat ones park far, far away so that they have to either walk or die.

Darwin's avatar

Some people are just fat, while others have become fat because their disability doesn’t allow them to exercise. When my husband was young and healthy he was a football player and weighed 265 at 5’10” tall. He was obviously too heavy for his height, but he could walk all day without getting tired, and found boot camp to be easier that football camp had ever been.

Later in like when he was no longer lifting weights his weight dropped to 224 and stayed there for many years. He was active, fit and healthy.

Now, however, he weighs the same once again as he did when he was young. The difference, though, is that much of the weight is either fat that has replaced muscle due to his inability to walk more than about 10 feet at a time and his need to sleep a lot due in large part to his medications. He eats relatively little, but he simply cannot move enough to use up even those few calories.

In other words, in many cases obesity comes from disability, and so unless you know the individual in question and are aware of their health history, you need to keep away from assumptions such as they are disabled because they were fat.

Darwin's avatar

@JLeslie – The statistics for the US as of 2005 are:

“Currently, 64.5 percent of U.S. adults, age 20 years and older, are overweight and 30.5 percent are obese. Severe obesity prevalence is now 4.7 percent.” (from here)

Being obese and being overweight are not the same condition. Someone who could stand to lose 20 pounds is overweight. Someone who needs to lose 100 pounds or more is obese.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@JLeslie Ya I prefer the courtesy of a parking space over a costly not-so-easy-to-get temp sticker for pregnancy. Just a preference.

ubersiren's avatar

Population is irrelevant, at least in the US.

In our country, we’re pretty balanced. There is much more land available than there are people. We’ve got space and the resources. Those who choose not to breed should be thankful someone is doing it for them. Those who choose to breed should be thankful that not everyone is doing it. Both kinds of people are necessary to keep this balance. I’m pretty sure that’s what Mother Nature is all about. We should be respectful of it and the people who play each part.

valdasta's avatar

My wife has had more than six children…I think she deserves valet – and a medal.

poofandmook's avatar

I’m sorry but some of you are just jerks… regarding “fat” people. Sorry not everyone is perfect like all of you.

whitenoise's avatar

@poofandmook
Aren’t you a bit overstating that jerkiness? I think there are about two links with nastiness towards fat people. 1 and 2 My impression is that the rest of the posts just every now and then refers to fat people. Is that nasty in itself? I don’t think so. (Unless you object to the word “fat” when referring to obese people, in which case I will gladly make an addition to my list of words banned by political correctness – just let me know.)

BTW one of those two remarks was made by myself and you did notice the indications of it being an ironic remark, right? My impression (and hope!) was that the second one was not intended seriously either.

gussnarp's avatar

I have to make my own comment about the level of civility (or lack thereof) on this thread. @tinyfaery used what I consider to be hostile and inflammatory language in the question, then asked for a lack of hostility in the response. That’s not likely to work. The word “deserve” in this case may be a little hostile, but the real problem is this statement: “I can’t think of one legitimate reason.” No one says that because they have thought long and hard about the issue with an open mind (really, it doesn’t take long to think of a few legitimate reasons if you make even a modicum of effort to put yourself in another’s shoes), they say it because they have made up their mind to be angry about it. Also, this statement:“I just think this is another example of special treatment for parents and pregnant women.” Makes it quite clear how @tinyfaery really feels, at least to me. I don’t think there is much “special treatment” for pregnant women and parents. Saying “another example of special treatment” suggests that you think there is a litany of evils against non child bearing people that need to be righted. (OK, I’m probably reading a bit too much into that, but it is hostile, IMHO). Now I agree that there have been some comments in response that I believe crossed the line, but overall I would say the discussion has been fairly civil. I will admit that my use of the term “anti-child” was hasty and inflammatory. The real problem is that I (and others) put together a pattern of behavior from other threads, when we should really stick exclusively to the discussion at hand and not allow what has been said elsewhere to compound our reaction to this thread. What I should have said, obviously, was “anti-mother” and I’ll stand by that one. Frankly, childless people can never understand what it is to be a parent, but it would be nice if you would try. Not for me, or for the person in the parking space, but for your own parents. And I’m sorry if they were abusive or neglectful, but most parents aren’t. Most parents (yes by their own choice) make tremendous sacrifices, at a level they couldn’t realize when they got started, to do the best for their children. Parents get a little testy about being told they don’t “deserve” a little special treatment from a business that knows which side their bread is buttered on in return for never getting another full night’s sleep again, sleeping in two hour increments, at best, for a minimum of six months, changing diapers, wiping bottoms, getting their hair pulled, getting bitten, punched, pushed, kicked, screamed at, told the food they worked all week to buy, all evening to prepare, and will spend the next hour cleaning up from is “garbage” and won’t be eaten, then cleaning it up off the floor, never getting to decide to go out on the spur of the moment, and ALWAYS having someone else come first without ever lashing out physically in response (don’t forget you’re sleep deprived through all this). Yeah, we get a bit defensive. I’ve left out the pregnancy specific stuff since I’m a man. And yes, ultimately, the personal rewards outweigh all that. But that doesn’t make it any easier when all the tough moments come together at once. And thanks to someone like that you are here, educated enough to read this, wealthy enough to access the internet, and best I can tell relatively sane and healthy. Yeah, not one legitimate reason. Sorry, for the rant, I think I’ll call it quits on this thread. If you disagree and argue this, I won’t argue back even though I could, since I’ve said more than enough.

jca's avatar

I especially love the first 10–15 lines specifically about TF’s wording and other threads. could not have said it better myself.

poofandmook's avatar

@whitenoise: Well, I got two GAs for saying that, so apparently I’m not the only person that feels that way.

gussnarp's avatar

OK, I know I said I’d call it quits, but I wonder if the GAs to my last post are to the bulk of the post, or because I said I’d said enough and would shut up? You’re gonna stop talking? GA!!!

Aethelwine's avatar

@gussnarp I gave you a great answer because you made some excellent points! Please don’t shut up! :)

DarkScribe's avatar

@gussnarp OK, I know I said I’d call it quits, but I wonder if the GAs to my last post are to the bulk of the post, or because I said I’d said enough and would shut up? You

I gave you one because it was a good response. Someone who asks for a “non-hostile” explanation for consideration, courtesy, thoughtfulness and manners toward motherhood and small children is going to raise some hackles. The length of this thread illustrates that.

Likeradar's avatar

@DarkScribe I agree. My main issue was the OP saying she can’t think of a single good reason. The first few threads are perfectly legitimate reasons. The response from the OP wasn’t an acknowledgment of those reasons, but further hostility and ignoring the reasons given.

Dr_C's avatar

@ubersiren i still can’t stop laughing about the poop in the scrotum folds!!!!!!
*Checks scrotum

JLeslie's avatar

@RedPowerLady I AGREE. I have said all along I think the spots for people with young children and pregnant women are fine with me. I’m happy to walk an extra 50–500 feet so they can park closer. I am just saying that I am not so stuck in my position that I can’t acknowledge there are other arguments that are true that have been presented by the opposition.

@Darwin Thanks for the stats. I did confuse my stats by saying 60% are obese, it is overweight. 30% obese is pretty high still. Here is the link from your link about the children http://obesity1.tempdomainname.com/subs/childhood/prevalence.shtml so we have the correct stats on that too.

MissAusten's avatar

@Dr_C Now I can’t stop laughing at the mental image of a grown man inspecting his scrotum folds. Even typing “scrotum folds” brings on the giggles.

dpworkin's avatar

@gussnarp I forgot to thank you for the thoughtful and comprehensive answer above.

Darwin's avatar

@MissAusten At least it means he is flexible.

MissAusten's avatar

@Darwin Or maybe he owns a hand mirror?

Val123's avatar

@MacBean Thanks…I think so too, actually, but..IDK, really.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@JLeslie Makes sense to me. Thanx for clarifying :)

scamp's avatar

Since the state of California and many other states for that matter have pregnancy disability laws, why is a problem to have parking spaces for pregnant women? Should pregnancy be lumped in with other disabilities so they can park in the other handicapped spaces? And exactlly what equality are you looking for? How should we label a spot just for you?

tiffyandthewall's avatar

judging from an outside perspective – i really don’t care who’s closer, because walking a few extra spots down is not going to kill me – i’d think that it’s because it’s an uncomfortable physical state. it doesn’t really matter whether or not they chose it, and i definitely see it as quite different from just being ‘fat’. i’m not a huge enthusiast of childbirth…i guess…? but i think it’s a kind gesture. at x months pregnant, i’m guessing i’d be super appreciative. or in the scenario @Likeradar mentioned.

Blackberry's avatar

I agree with you, but I also don’t care because I don’t mind where I park. I do think you were pummeled in this thread by people, probably because most of them seemed to be parents. I didn’t think you were being hostile until you started defending yourself, which is absolutely fine. I’m with you :D

Dr_C's avatar

In case anybody’s interested, I’ve been checking my scrotum folds on a daily basis. Still no poop.

Also… I’ve been going to Babies R’ Us a lot in the past few weeks since it seems all my friends are having kids. There is a whole row of these spots in front of the store. It never once occurred to me to take one even though half were empty. I still think these are a great idea and think it promotes a bit of civility.

MissAusten's avatar

haha scrotum folds haha

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