Social Question

Facade's avatar

Does this particular Halloween costume go too far?

Asked by Facade (22902points) October 31st, 2009

We’ve had a couple discussions here about costumes for Halloween, but do you think this zombie costume goes too far?

And here’s the link for the article

Let me know if this has already been discussed

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

84 Answers

dpworkin's avatar

It’s long past the time when we should be making rules that limit the creativity of other people because we are disgusted by their point of view.

Show me one possible example of actual harm that could possibly result from this artist’s work.

XOIIO's avatar

Yes, I think it does. What if a mother had just had a miscarriage? It could bring back memories and cause a phsycological breakdown.

There you go @pdworkin

The_Compassionate_Heretic's avatar

It’s not illegal, but it’s definitely in poor taste.

troubleinharlem's avatar

Sigh. Sometimes people disgust me.

DominicX's avatar

@XOIIO

So? What if a person just had a family member stabbed to death and someone goes as a knife-murderer? Anything has the potential to offend and bring back painful memories.

Personally, I agree with @The_Compassionate_Heretic; it’s in poor taste, but that doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be allowed. People should be able to express themselves how they want. The costume is obviously for shock value and look what’s happening: people are shocked. She’s getting out of it what she wants out of it.

Darwin's avatar

There is an element of poor taste, but there is also an element of twisted humor. I think the appropriateness of this particular costume would very much depend on the venue in which it is worn.

As someone who has had miscarriages it does bring an inner shudder. However, I can close my eyes or turn away or simply choose not to attend the types of events where such costumes are likely to show up.

dpworkin's avatar

Disturbing someone momentarily does not qualify as “actual harm” in my book. By your standards, I could be harming strangers on the subway if I talk about miscarriages.

Ivan's avatar

Too far for what?

PretentiousArtist's avatar

It depends on who you ask.

RedPowerLady's avatar

I lost a child. If I saw this I would be traumatized. In fact I’m feeling horrible right now by just viewing it. I don’t think this is art and I certainly don’t think it is funny. Empathy could go a long way here.

I think arguing freedom of speech is one thing but I prefer to argue for empathy and compassion.

I also beg to differ and can quite clearly see how this can cause actual harm

delirium's avatar

Isn’t being disturbing, gross, morbid, fantistic kind of the point of Halloween?

dpworkin's avatar

@RedPowerLady What does constitute art? How is something disqualified from being art?

Ivan's avatar

@RedPowerLady

No offense, but you are not the arbiter of what constitutes “art”.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@pdworkin I said I do not classify this as art. That is my choice. I did not say that all people would disqualify it. Like I said before to me compassion and empathy come before all other arguments.

faye's avatar

shudder of disgust. i wouldn’t let my daughter and her friend go as siamese twins.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@Ivan I have every right to say what I Think classifies as art. Just as you have the same right. I don’t think this is art and I certainly don’t think it is funny. And no offense you are not the decider either. Let others have their opinions.

Ivan's avatar

@RedPowerLady

We can have this discussion if you want, but I think it’s up to the (potential) artist to define whether or not it’s art. That isn’t up to you nor I.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@Ivan I’m not arguing with you. But I still have a right to my opinion on how I feel about what they consider art. I do not have to agree with said artist. Also this discussion is off topic so perhaps you should start a different thread about what is art or not. Or if this classifies as art or not.

dpworkin's avatar

So, I guess you are a member of the “I Say it’s Spinach, and I Say To Hell With it” School of Aesthetics and Design.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

That’s one of the most disgusting, disrespectful things I’ve ever seen. Who thinks up this shit??!! Halloween or not, that’s sickening!

Ivan's avatar

@RedPowerLady

No, I think this is quite relevant. Whether or not it’s disgusting has nothing to do with whether it’s art (and therefore the artists’ right to portray it). Art can be disgusting.

Grisaille's avatar

* Deletes what he wrote *

Eh. It’s in bad taste. Whether or not I believe it’s “gone too far” is irrelevant. Point is, the author chose this outfit for Halloween to garner attention, horror, disgust and conversation.

Clearly, that has worked.

hug_of_war's avatar

I think it’s disgusting. Art, or not. It makes me feel gross just looking at it. I don’t care if the point of halloween is to be morbid, it doesn’t make it anyless perverse.

RedPowerLady's avatar

I am not going to continue a discussion if it is art or not. Like I said before. REGARDLESS if it is art or not I find that compassion and empathy could go a long way here.

Ivan's avatar

@RedPowerLady

Then you agree that this person has every right to wear this costume?

RedPowerLady's avatar

@Ivan I would not persecute them by law. But I would encourage them not to wear it. I guess for me it is a moral right vs. a legal right. They do have the legal right yes. But I could argue either way when it comes to other forms of rights.

Ivan's avatar

There are no other forms of rights.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@Ivan Again that could be a discussion for another thread. ;)
Even if you disagree with that I think I gave you the answer you were looking for.
Now just to stir up the pot I might join a group who exercises their legal rights by protesting this nasty costume, hehe. Perhaps educate the person enough or peer pressure them out of it. That’d be nice from my end of things.

wilma's avatar

I think it’s awful. It goes too far for me, but that’s just how I feel.
I don’t like sickening, bloody, hackem’up stuff, and that goes even beyond for me.
If you don’t mind it then that is your business.

Grisaille's avatar

* deletes again *

Eh. This is one of the only questions where I’m so torn on.

Ivan's avatar

@Grisaille

Hence my first comment. Too far for what? Too far for my own personal taste? I guess, I mean I would never wear it (even if I were capable of giving birth). I would probably disapprove of any of my friends wearing it too. But I have no right to someone else what costumes they can and cannot wear. It all depends on what this question is actually asking.

dpworkin's avatar

It’s easy to protect freedom of expression that doesn’t upset anybody. It is more necessary to protect freedom of expression in cases where most people are disgusted, or horrified, or upset, or angered.

Ivan's avatar

Right, unpopular speech is that which needs protection most.

tinyfaery's avatar

Made me snicker. It’s obviously meant to shock, but I find it more crass than amusing. But it is amusing.

syz's avatar

Tacky and in poor taste, but hardly worthy of censure. God knows there are plenty of people out there wrongfully impressed with their own cleverness.

wilma's avatar

I do know that if I was hosting a Hallowe’en party and that mess showed up, I would ask them to leave.
If I was out in public, I certainly would stay very far away from someone with the mentality to portray that scenario.

I didn’t think the question was whether or not it was legal. Just if you thought it went too far.

Ivan's avatar

Too far for what?

RedPowerLady's avatar

@wilma good distinction, i think i would ask them to leave or clean up the costume as well

wilma's avatar

@Ivan I supposed too far for good taste, good humor, good fun, too be seen in public by families with children, just too far for me.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

@tinyfaery Amusing!? Ooookay.

bagelface's avatar

At least she’s wearing clothes under that gown. Could be worse.

Grisaille's avatar

@jbfletcherfan It is a bit amusing, at least to me. The content is so over the top and ridiculous, I can’t help but think, “god, this is so stupid and obviously designed to shock.”

Hell, it’s damn near campy when you think about it.

bagelface's avatar

pretty much

tinyfaery's avatar

It’s a costume. A costume. Taking it a bit too seriously here people.

The_Compassionate_Heretic's avatar

Addressing the wording of the question, if “going too far” refers to the limits of good taste, then yes it definitely goes too far but that’s a subjective criteria.
It goes too far relative to my personal tastes but it probably doesn’t go far enough according to others.

jeffgoldblumsprivatefacilities's avatar

I think we are all missing the real point here ~ Zombies can procreate? I thought all they cared about was eating your brain, but now I find out they’ve been humping all along. My world view has been shattered.

Grisaille's avatar

Not procreate. Dammit, haven’t you seen Romero’s Dawn of the Dead?

Iclamae's avatar

I agree with the initial part of this discussion. It’s a zombie costume, intriguing, but distasteful.

In general, this is a holiday that highly emphasizes death, frights, and potential mental trauma (such as developing a new fear or watching a horror movie and not being able to get an image out of your head). This is a realistic zombie costume, for which I give the creator credit. It’s not your typical “green and moaning funny” zombie. And as said above, if another zombie had walked by with an axe in its back or (more relevant to my hometown) a gunshot wound, anyone who had had a relative murdered in such way would probably be offended too. The truth is that when you go out on Halloween, you’re going to see different people’s views on the holiday. Some aim to scare, some aim to disturb, and some aim to tip a hat to real life. I think the only difference between this woman(?) and the increasingly gruesome horror movies coming out is that you have the option of seeing one. Really, I think you have to be prepared for these kinds of costumes and images and just suck it up.

I personally would not wear this costume but I do not think it should be censored or verbally attacked on the street. I think it is a creative approach to the zombie costume. I think if she carried the baby instead, it would be a better approach. It would also be a nod to a very real fact: women die in childbirth. While I’m sorry to those who have lost children, I’m also sorry to every other person that has to deal with death on this holiday.

bagelface's avatar

The doctor is there too. Obviously there was a zombie attack when she was trying to give birth,.. duh.

fundevogel's avatar

I like it. But I suspect that simply moving the baby from it’s current position to the zombie mother’s arms will alter how a lot of people see this. Which by the by would have to happen in almost any Halloween party type activity. Otherwise the baby would get underfoot and the costume would be damaged or someone might trip, or both.

@jeffgoldblumsprivatefacilities & @Grisaille clearly you haven’t seen dead alive don’t click that if you don’t want to see zombies getting busy

Grisaille's avatar

firstly, how could I not click that link

secondly, does having sex with a zombie qualify as necrophilia or bestiality?

fundevogel's avatar

@Grisaille does sex between consenting adult zombies really need a special name?

Grisaille's avatar

What if it’s sex with a zombie and a non-infected?

Is zombieitis sexually transmitted?

I need answers, people!

fundevogel's avatar

@Grisaille Be safe, use a condom!

ECassandra's avatar

In a country like mine (and, presumably, like that of the costumed individual in question) where freedom of artistic expression is a founding principle and a source of national pride, this is clearly an issue of taste. To answer your question, you’d have to be more specific: “too far” for what? Too far for my taste? Yes. Too far to escape censorship? No.

jeffgoldblumsprivatefacilities's avatar

@fundevogel I definitely had to click that.

@Grisaille Wear a condom and a helmet. Zombies are rough.

ratboy's avatar

Why isn’t she munching the baby’s brain?

delirium's avatar

@jeffgoldblumsprivatefacilities You mean ‘wear a helmet on both heads’?

I couldn’t help it!

jbfletcherfan's avatar

@Grisaille Go ahead & find it amusing then. Whatever.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

This disturbs me
but it certainly doesn’t disturb others
meaning it is not ‘too far’

ubersiren's avatar

Not very considerate, but I don’t personally find it offensive. I had a miscarriage some years ago.

Siren's avatar

It’s creative, but I also think it’s in poor taste. I wouldn’t be caught dead wearing it (pun intended?) because I believe in karma.

Also, zombies are supposed to be miserable but this is somewhat offensive to pregnant women, kind of trivializes the whole birthing/labor thing too, which is a huge life changing moment for those who have experienced or witnessed it, or as mentioned above, experienced a loss.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

Freedom of speech is once again threatened by the liberals who want to tell us how to live, what to say, and how to dress for halloween. Don’t like it, don’t look.

“oh, but think of the children!” will be the knee-jerk liberal response, it always is.

casheroo's avatar

I don’t think that’s art…it’s a damn costume.

I don’t like it, but I’m not offended by it. I’ve had multiple miscarriages. I’ve also given birth. I don’t know. I think it does “cross the line” but I think it’s not offensive enough to warrant being non-PC…yeah I threw that term out there To me it’s just a costume. Gross, but a cool zombie costume. I wouldn’t want my son to see it, but from what I gather, little kids really wouldn’t be at that zombie event.

ragingloli's avatar

haha, this is fantastic.
outstanding in creativity and execution.
and no, it doesn’t.

Darwin's avatar

Liberals want to tell us how to live? I thought that was the conservatives or the born-again folks or the commies, not the liberals.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@Darwin they all want to, if it ain’t our parents, it’s someone else. Why don’t they just leave us alone? ~

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra yeah it’s all us liberals
you’re right
conservatives will love this costume
they basically do the same kind of thing with their ‘look it’s an aborted fetus’ propaganda…they already know what in poor taste means…they invented it

OpryLeigh's avatar

I don’t like it personally and feel uncomfortable looking at it but then again I feel that way about lots of things that are considered “art”. As others have said, it was intended to shock and that’s what it has done. Art is supposed to cause a reaction but I also think that the word “art” is often used as a way to justify something that may upset/offend/even traumatize people. If something is in really poor taste just say it’s art and that makes it ok.

This costume doesn’t offend or upset me and I’m sure I won’t even think about it once this discussion is over but I can understand why it would upset others (like @RedPowerLady for example – I can’t imagine what it is like to loose a child but I can imagine that this image would upset anyone who has).

autumn43's avatar

IMHO, I hardly think the person wearing that costume thought it was art. They wore it for the shock value and it worked.

irocktheworld's avatar

That’s discusting.

MrBr00ks's avatar

Cheesus, that’s awful. Clearly, that woman hasn’t been through that situation before. Yea, she’s got a right to wear that, as long as it doesn’t violate any public indecency laws. We also have a right to express displeasure at such a site as well

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

So I may have been a little tough on you liberals ^ there, sorry if I offended you. =)

opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra you most certainly did NOT offend me

Siren's avatar

Aren’t the liberals the ones who promote free speech and less government? I think someone is confused here. Or a good spin-doctor. Confusion is one way to combat logic.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Siren nobody said the costume should be illegal or punished by the government,did they?

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@Siren Seems to me the Republicans have always promoted less government, that is, the old-school Republicans. These new ones, starting with Shrub, changed that. Compassionate Conservative, my ass. The Dems aren’t afraid to admit they want big government poking their noses in everybody’s bidness.

Personally, I look at it like this. What is the difference between Democrats and Republicans? The Democrats are the only ones to admit they want more government.

Neither party is worth a hill of beans anymore. The last decent Republican we had was Lincoln. The last good Democrat, well, Bill Clinton got my vote, both times.

Siren's avatar

Ya know what Psychedlic Zebra? I agree with you!

Siren's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir: I think you lost me. Or I lost you: We both lost.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Siren I’m sorry you lost me
hope you gain me again in the future

kitchi1's avatar

It doesn’t really look like it’s in the best quality, but it’s just a costume. As long as someone doesn’t go into some elementary school wearing that at halloween. (Adult or children)

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther