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ninjacolin's avatar

Is "the love of money the root of all evil" or is the bible wrong?

Asked by ninjacolin (14246points) November 29th, 2009

Starting with the King James Version at 1 Timothy 6:10:

“For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”

The word “all” is absolute, suggesting that every single evil act is monetarily motivated. But clearly, many evils in the world are not motivated by a love of money. For example, the 9/11 bombings. Bar fights over women where one participant dies. Roadside bombings that kill soldiers in Afghanistan.

The New International Version says it differently: “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.” Which still technically means that there is at least one root or connection to “the love of money” in every evil committed.

It seems many bible scholars over time noticed this error and other translations of the scriptures were made where ”the root of all evil” has been changed to ”a root of all kinds of evil.” In these translations, the relationship between the love of money and evil is lessened from an absolute requirement to a mere potential ingredient.

So, which of these bible translations is wrong and which one is actually God-approved or Truthful? Also.. how will you decide?

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42 Answers

aprilsimnel's avatar

The love of money, not the money. Just to be clear.

ninjacolin's avatar

^ got it. changed it.

Val123's avatar

I think it is. Well,except maybe not in the case of serial killers, but in all other things, I think it is. Give me a for-example of something you consider wrong or “evil,” or destructive to relationships, and see if we can trace it back to money.

jrpowell's avatar

The Bible is bullshit and anyone that thinks it is true or tries to literally interpret it is a fucking idiot.

laureth's avatar

In the Bible itself, there are examples of evil which are not motivated by the love of money. For instance, we have Onan’s sin (not fathering an heir for his brother and letting his seed spill instead), we have the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah (which was not being hospitable to strangers), we have the jealousy of Joseph’s brothers. Pride, envy, lust, gluttony, etc, etc, etc.

So, to rephrase the question – is the bible wrong, or is the bible wrong? Is it wrong that the love of money isn’t the root of these evils, or is it wrong that there are sins where the love of money is not the root? Personally, as a non-believer, I would answer both: the Bible is wrong on some things.

Getting all literal about things that are metaphors, though – that will lead people astray a LOT. ;)

nzigler's avatar

My favorite bible/commerce tidbit is the fact that Jews were considered evil for lending money but Christians weren’t for taking lent money! Hilarious!

ninjacolin's avatar

@Val123 contradicted herself when she said: “I think it is. Well, except maybe not in the case of serial killers

There are no “exceptions” in an absolute statement. Either the love of money IS the/a root of ALL evil.. or it’s not. Pick one.

Val123's avatar

@ninjacolin Ok! I’d say the Bible makes a good point! Much of what we consider “evil” (although that’s a pretty strong term) can have it’s roots in greed, in making money, in making more money. In stealing to get money. In killing for monetary gain. Not everything can be traced back to the love of money, but many things can be.

nzigler's avatar

There’s so many roots of evil- this concept is insulting to evil. You could say sex is the root of all evil. You could say violence is the root of all evil.

ninjacolin's avatar

:) cool, that would be a “no” then @Val123.. you’re saying the King James version is wrong to suggest that the love of money is the root of all evil because clearly (to you) “Not everything can be traced back to the love of money.”

@nzigler, the “real” root of all evil, in my opinion, is “ignorance.” That’s from the book of Ninjacolin 1:1 and I stand behind that translation a good 100%. haha

Like val, I think the bible is very clearly wrong about this point.. at least the KJV and NIV is..

nzigler's avatar

‘Money’ is just a part of a system we’ve developed to reward and punish and provide the appearance of some fairness and the illusion that we have a high degree of control over our fates.

I’m voting Baphomet for Root of Evil 2010.

Val123's avatar

@nzigler However, (and I haven’t thought this through totally) I’m thinkin’ that the love of money and greed (or not even greed, just the lack of money) causes more crime/evil than any one other factor.

Money can destroy families…..a person with money dies, and is selective about who is in the will to receive money?

Speaking of sex, the sex trade, child prostitution, any prostitution, sexual slavery. What is the motivating factor behind those horrible trades?

Violence: A lot of violence is committed during crimes designed to get money. (Many others though, are for emotional reasons only.)

Robbery—well, that speaks for itself.

@ninjacolin “No,” what? I think it’s inaccurate, but no reason to throw it out all together, or to totally disregard it. There are a lot of inconsistencies in the Bible, IMO, but there is a lot of wisdom to be found too. “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.”

jenandcolin's avatar

“It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:24)

ninjacolin's avatar

I didn’t say anything about throwing the bible out! I just said it’s obviously not right all the time! :)
I think this scripture proves it pretty conclusively.

nzigler's avatar

@Val123 People don’t molest children for money.

In fact, evidence would seem to suggest violent, sexual predators don’t even share similar socioeconomic backgrounds.

Edit: @Astrochuck seconded. Speaking of money- who’s made more money off that book than the Church?

AstroChuck's avatar

If you ask me it’s the Bible that is the root of all evil.

Val123's avatar

@ninjacolin coo. I have to agree with that statement. I guess I was thinking of @johnpowell‘s response…

@jenandcolin “A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.”….O. Wait, that was Mark Twain! oops!

@nzigler I agree, and I made that same point several times above. There are many evils and crimes that have absolutely nothing to do with money, and everything to do with emotion. As I stated above: “However, (and I haven’t thought this through totally) I’m thinkin’ that the love of money and greed (or not even greed, just the lack of money) causes more crime/evil than any one other factor.”

ModernEpicurian's avatar

The bible is wrong.

But I think I’m answering a slightly different question. Though not an unrelated one.

ratboy's avatar

Goodness prevailed everywhere prior to the invention of money.

PandoraBoxx's avatar

Church wants you to donate all your money to them so you won’t have to worry about this question any more.

Facade's avatar

Sounds about right. People do a lot of evil things when they love money.

ninjacolin's avatar

^ a lot of evil sure.. but the question is: is all evil motivated by the love of money or are there some evils that aren’t motivated by the love of money?

aprilsimnel's avatar

If the translations aren’t corrupted (though they well might be), Paul in his letters got a lot of things wrong, didn’t he? The love of money is definitely not the root of all evil. Evil acts perpetrated by people defending their egos might surpass evil based on avarice, I believe.

People forget that these were letters, and only some of them were meant to be instructional to the whole Church. This letter was to his friend Timothy and was quite possibly just his private opinions. To say such is divinely inspired is at the very least a suspension of critical faculties on the part of a reader who takes them as words to live by.

He was a bit bossy, too, though. I wouldn’t think we’d get on very well if I knew him. To Paul’s credit, I like I Corinthians, Chapter 13 very much and think it’s spot on. At least that was to the entire church in Corinth and not just a letter to a pal.

Even before his conversion, Paul seemed to be a dogmatic, rule-bound, repressed so-and-so, and he certainly was no different after Tarsus. Not a big fan of women, either, as far as I can tell. Jesus seemed to be a different sort of man.

Darwin's avatar

I have no idea which translation is most accurate, or whether either of them actually correctly represent what the big dude in the sky actually said (I’m God, and I personally approved this message). However, it would seem to me that power, or more correctly, the desire for power, is the root of all evil. Money represents power, rape represents power, blowing up people represents power – just about every nasty deed I can think of represents seeking or having power over others.

NaturalMineralWater's avatar

@johnpowell Wow. Are you ok? Why so hostile?

@ninjacolin I think I would have to be able to read Aramaic and whatever other language the bible was originally written in to know if this little word “all” is as all inclusive as it seems to suggest in the KJV. Either way, the bible is chock full of allegory and parable so I think it’s important to read the context of the passage.

I think it’s important to note that the following verse says “But thou, O man of God, flee these things” .. He’s talking to Christians.. those with faith. If you take that into account.. perhaps it changes things a bit. He isn’t talking about people who are serial killers… who beat up people in a bar over a woman.. he’s talking to God fearing, faithful Christians… warning them of a great evil.

Either way, the bible was written by men, whether inspired by God or not.. so I think it’s a bit convoluted to suggest that this one word (all) is indicative of a concept so rigid and set in stone. You must admit that the love of money is indeed the root of a great many kinds of evil. Perhaps that’s all it means.

wundayatta's avatar

What is money? It is a metaphor for value (of things people make and of the services they provide) and it is a trusted symbol that the money accurately reflects the value of those goods and services.

Love of money = love of services and stuff of value.

What, then, is the love of value? Are we talking about excessive love? For only seeing the value instead of the human element that created the value?

What then, is evil? I don’t really think it’s appropriate to discuss that here. We have done that on many other threads. Let’s just say that evil is the deliberate harming of people.

When you come down to it, value is intrinsically and inherently a characteristic of human life. Yet, monetizing value creates an artificial separation between money and value. It’s as if money is a thing that exists on it’s own.

So love of money means that you are separating human value from humans. You love the stuff that humans do, but not the humans that do it. In essence you are separating humans from their humanity if you love money. It is only possible, I believe, to deliberately harm another human being if you have separated humans from humanity. That is, you no longer see the humanity in humans. They have become things, just like any other thing, for you to do what you will with.

In this way, I can see money as being the root of all evil. Evil is separating the humanity out of humans. Love of the “thing” part of humans, and mistaking it for meaning anything without humans is the process of dehumanizing people.

Does this make sense? I feel like I’ve glossed over a lot of connections very quickly.

NaturalMineralWater's avatar

@daloon I think it’s a GA. Most people are content to read just one phrase out of the passage and carve it into stone and call it wrong. There is a bigger picture which I think you’ve helped to outline.

Fernspider's avatar

@daloon – Fantastic answer. Lurve for you!

ninjacolin's avatar

not bad, daloon! it’s quite a stretch, but it could work. i have no reason to believe that Paul meant it that way but if we made you a prophet then it’d work just fine.

for conversation sake, i don’t really think money = “goods and services” though. the way I see it, money = time. Since it takes time to make any good or to perform any service, money represents the time investment required to materialize the things you want. If you have money, you are literally holding time incarnate.

For example, consider the amount of time needed to learn, master, and finally manufacture an IPhone. Instead of doing all that, if you simply own $500 and happen to be in the area of an electronics store, you can just miraculously produce one for yourself in about 5 minutes.

Darwin's avatar

“if we made you a prophet then it’d work just fine.”

I thought Fluther was a non-prophet sort of a thing.

Val123's avatar

@Darwin AH!! I just spit water through my nose!!!! ROFL!!

ratboy's avatar

If time is money, wouldn’t that make the love of time the root of all evil? Obviously, you don’t love time if you just waste it. Therefore, wasting time is the path of righteousness.

Darwin's avatar

But what about wasting thyme?

RedPowerLady's avatar

I don’t know about all evil but a sure heck of a lot of it comes from greed and the love of money. I say our world would be much improved without such an emphasis on consumerism and status/power determined by money.

trailsillustrated's avatar

it’s wrong. anybody who has had to live on no money knows this. “there is nothing so degrading as constant anxiety about one’s livelihood” ” it is not wealth one asks for, but just enough to preserve one’s dignity, to work unhampered, and to be generous, frank and independent’ somerset maugham

wundayatta's avatar

@ninjacolin In principle, I don’t have any problem with the idea that money measures time, except that different people’s time is valued differently. I think it’s a mix of effort involved in making the thing, the alternative uses to which resources can be put, and a lot of other stuff. However, the important thing is that money doesn’t mean anything all by itself, no matter whether it’s gold or shells or paper. It is only worth something if people believe it is worth something and trust that everyone else believes pretty much the same thing.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@trailsillustrated I think your example goes to show how it is right. Great quote either way.

futurelaker88's avatar

http://www.true-wealth.com/content/cpt2/ii_1.htm

perhaps this link will help. it offers a more modern translation of the “most misquoted passage of scripture in all time.” we have to remember that the bible is translated by men. men make mistakes. they do there best to translate languages, carefully picking the ” best” (on their oppinion) English words; sometimes they do it wondefully, other times…not so good. this page offers a translation closer to what the original statement 2000 years ago said. it clarifies that the LOVE of money is the root of all KINDS of evil. a very important misinterpretation. this solves the problem completely.

hope that helps ;)

SeventhSense's avatar

Excellent litttle show on Science Channel or Discovery(?) about these South Pacific natives who travel to American and are confronted with different American societies and they come up with this very same conclusion. The chasing of money and it’s acquisition eventually supersede humanity and the end result is the absence of sanity. It’s like a machine which continually burns more gas, the more gas that is added to it.

An unmarried wealthy venture capitalist gives advice to a successful, happy Mexican fisherman.

An internationally renowned venture capitalist from Hong Kong was vacationing at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village. A couple hours before lunch time, he noticed a small boat with just one fisherman docked nearby. Inside the small boat were several large yellow fin tuna. The venture capitalist complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican Jose replied, only a little while. The venture capitalist, Mr. Wang, then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish?

Jose said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. Wang asked what he did with the rest of his day.

The fisherman Jose said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, and take a siesta with my wife. Some nights, I stroll into the village and play guitar with my amigos. We entertain the children with stories and songs. Some evenings my wife and I help at our church.”

Mr. Wang offered, “I have an MBA from Harvard and could help. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a larger boat. With the proceeds from a larger boat you could buy several more boats. Eventually, you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman, you could sell directly to the processor and open your own cannery. With my advice on marketing, you would ultimately control the supply of product, processing, and distribution.”

Mr. Wang continued, “Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City in order to manage the growing fleet. After you open the cannery, you would then need to move to Los Angeles to manage and coordinate the marketing and distribution.”

Jose asked, “How long will all this take?”

Mr. Wang replied, “Fifteen to twenty years.”

“What then?”, asked Jose.

Mr. Wang laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would relocate your growing empire to Hong Kong or London, announce an IPO, sell your company’s stock to the public, and become very rich. You would make millions.”

“Millions? Then what?”, the Mexican asked again.

“Then you could retire,” Mr. Wang replied, “move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take a siesta with your wife, and stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play guitar with your amigos.”
‹(•¿•)›

ninjacolin's avatar

haha, seventhsense that was goodness.

SeventhSense's avatar

My favorite part of that show so far was when they went to live with the W.A.S.P. tribe in Manhattan. LMAO. Truly comical to see pretentious blue blooded New Yorkers confronted with authentic human beings.

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