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ETpro's avatar

How many Flutherers are also active on Sodahead.com or other Social Q&A Sites?

Asked by ETpro (34550points) December 25th, 2009

Social Q&A sites are endemic now and each has its own flavor. Are you active on more than one? If so, what do you like and dislike about each. What makes one your go-to site and the others just an also-ran?

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146 Answers

trumi's avatar

Fluther is perfect! Why would we need anything else?

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

I’m tapering off of YA. Cramster is not a social site. Facebook strikes me as too much of an invasion of my privacy. I’m a member of several autism/Aspergers related sites but only for informational purposes. I’ve found a home in the Fluther collective. Interestring intelligent people who can actually understand my sense of humor. Enough structure to keep out the trolls. Moderators who actually care about what they are doing and have a genuine desire to be helpful.

faceman's avatar

on ya but getting bored lost a lot of friends

AustinusMaximus's avatar

I’m originally from AnswerBag, and it had it’s problems anonymous downrating(dis-like), and trolls, but at the same time, it wasn’t as repressive as Fluther feels to me. I mean open ended questions are moderation worthy? It doesn’t seem to me like I can be myself here. If I want to joke I need to wait for a serious answer? What if the question doesn’t deserve a serious answer? No, I’m not a Flutherite, I’m a Ronin and no longer happy with any social Q&A site. But Fluther is where my AB friends came, so here I am trying to fit in.

Vunessuh's avatar

I don’t see how people can keep up more than one Q&A site. I would get so tired of going back and forth to each website/account, but somehow people manage to do it.
I use to be on Answerbag before it took a nose dive. Now, I’m just on Fluther.
I also have a Facebook, but I don’t participate in any other Q&A sites.
The main reason I’m here is because over 200 ABers migrated here and I wanted to still be in communication with my friends.

loser's avatar

Sodahead?
hee! hee!

azlotto's avatar

Answerbag…not active anymore.

Blurtit…never was active.

Vunessuh's avatar

@AustinusMaximus GA. Your answer is exactly how I feel. I find it difficult to be myself here. I feel like moderation in a sense discourages ‘fun’. I miss the old AB. I don’t really fit in here. Sad panda. 8[

AustinusMaximus's avatar

@Vunessuh I know babe, it’s ok I’ll hold you until the blues pass….

Vunessuh's avatar

@AustinusMaximus Honestly, I would choose the old AB over any Q&A site. Hell, I even miss the trolls, the gliches, the downrate option and the pregnancy questions. I would seriously just cream my pants if I saw another, “Could I be pregnant from eating a cheese pizza?”
Those were the good ole’ days.
AB was stress-relieving. The censorship here makes it hard to enjoy yourself.
You just can’t be yourself without getting in trouble for it.
Some days when I log in, I just want to fuck around and laugh my ass off at everyone else fucking around. That is pretty much non-existent now.

AustinusMaximus's avatar

What I wouldn’t give for one silly question like. I slept with my radio, am I pregnant, and if so will the baby be a stereotype?

Vunessuh's avatar

LMAO! Only in our dreams…

jbfletcherfan's avatar

@Vunessuh I think you fit in here just fine. Hey, you have the squirrel on your side. It can’t all be bad. :-)

Vunessuh's avatar

@jbfletcherfan Aw, well that makes me feel much better! :D
The reason you say that though, is because I’ve had to tone myself down. Toned it way down.
And that’s why I say I don’t feel like I can be myself.
It’s alright though. I enjoy the company of my friends. That’s all I need. :)

Jewel's avatar

@Vunessuh @AustinusMaximus
Feeling the same here. I feel so out of place. Seems that everything I do brings out some aggression from older flutherers and the feeling like a square peg gets stronger each day. I also miss the pace of our old haunt. This place is so slow because of the restrictions that I keep walking away from my PC and forgetting to come back. If you find any alternatives, please broadcast it!
No offense meant to Fluther or it’s members. I am grateful to Fluther. I appreciate the way they have treated us. There are some wonderful folks here. But it isn’t as active or open as I am comfortable with. I try each day to accept it and get in step. I obviously have no place else to go, so I am here until – or unless – something else pops up.

ETpro's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land When I first arrived at FLuther from Answerbag, I was afraid the aggressive moderation here would get in the way of simply having fun. As it turns out, I’m thinking just the opposite is the case. Once you learn the limits, it’s easy enough to stay within them and it does keep the trolls at bay.

I’m getting into Sodahead as well because the political discussion is FAR more active (but be warned, it can get vicious) there and they do tolerate open-ended questions and pure whimsy. Also, they have the best comment threading I have yet to see on any Q&A site.

Vunessuh's avatar

@Jewel A lot of ABers have tried finding other decent Q&A sites with no success. I think most people came here because of the personable feel to the site. The format isn’t industrial, it’s a little more friendly and easy to navigate. I highly doubt we’ll find anything close to the old AB, but I’m sure if someone does they’ll inform everyone.
And I agree, I have no intentions of offending Fluther members, but as you stated, it isn’t as openminded as to questions you can ask and answers you can give. I feel too restricted. I want those damn pregnancy and ‘does he like me’ questions back.
;-)

ETpro's avatar

@AustinusMaximus “What I wouldn’t give for one silly question like. I slept with my radio, am I pregnant, and if so will the baby be a stereotype?” Sometimes you don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone, as the song goes. :-)
@jewel You will find Sodahead tolerates just about anything in questions, but you have to get a large friends list before your questions get any serious notice. The threading is great. Other than that, though, the interface is much more clumsy than the old AB or even Fluther.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@ETpro Actually I prefer the greater structure here, It was the lack of structure that caused me to get PBed from AB 2½ years ago. If I knew Fluther existed, I would never have returned to AB, as it was I stayed off for over 2 years even though the PB was only for three days. Here you know what the rules are and that they apply equally to all. Not like even the “old” AB where there was huge favoritism shown to some and discrimination against others. Even greats like Jody who fell afoul of the new administration were treated like shit. The verbal grenades I tossed at Lex on my way out the door have probably got me nuked. Not that I would consider returning there under any circumstances, even if it were put back exactly as before.Too much animosity for me. I’ve found a comfortable home here; I’ve never had the urge to engage in online silliness, not my style.

Vunessuh's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land There is plenty of favoritism here on Fluther as well.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@Vunessuh I haven’t experienced it. I was warmly welcomed here. Perhaps it has to do with my quickly abandoning the “AB refugee” tag and staying out of the chatroom. I seem to have been able to fit in quickly here. Fluther seems to be closer to my operating frequency than anywhere else.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land Glad you feel that way. :-) I came here from Askville & it was a hard transition, but believe me, it was the right thing to do. I’m glad I stuck it out. This is now home. Welcome board.

@Vunessuh & @Jewel I hope you hang in here with us. There are some complete idiots on here (I could name some), but most are good people.

Vunessuh's avatar

Aw phil, you made it to easy for us. We were enjoying bitching about not being able to find another site. You ruined it. ;-)

phillis's avatar

I know. I’m a total bitch about these things.

Dr_Lawrence's avatar

I found Fluther.com by using StumbleUpon.com I was and still am delighted with it.

There are I am sure many sites that set many fewer limits and places where irrelevance or irreverence or just plain ignorance are welcome. That is not for me but it is fine with me, though I may not hang out there.

I found a recent visit to Answerbag most unimpressive and I am not likely to go there again soon.

I will visit Sodahead just because I have never been there, but I like Fluther and have had no problems with how it is moderated, at least so far. Of course I never see what is deleted so I am in no position evaluate their policies.

I am pleased to be among you.

Jewel's avatar

@jbfletcherfan Thanks, and I WANT to stay. I keep trying to feel like I fit. I keep trying to figure out whatever it is that makes it feel so much like wool underwear, but so far there seems to be no answer.
I like the generally clean layout, the ease of use and the similarities to what I was so comfortable with. But It isn’t happening.
I havent been moderated. I haven’t had any head butting sessions. But it feels slow and restrictive and, well, boring!
I am not giving up yet. Just unhappy with my ability to get comfy. And I do believe the fault lies with me

Vunessuh's avatar

@Dr_Lawrence Stumbleupon.com is the shit. I didn’t find Fluther by means of that website, but I have found so many amazing things by stumbling.

EgaoNoGenki's avatar

I think I should try SodaHead.com now. Thanks for letting me know.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

@Jewel Oh, my…you’ve only been here a couple of weeks. I did the same thing you are.I came here from another site because it tanked & my buds came here. It takes a while to learn names, personalities, etc. You have the advantage of knowing a lot of people who have come over, too. The mods are strict, yes, but they do their jobs. They’re fair, tho some thing they’re not. The site I came from was a big free-for-all. Just give us a chance. It’s worth your stay.

Dr_Lawrence's avatar

@Vunessuh Finding so many amazing things is what I see as the purpose of StumbleUpon.

I just checked out Sodahead. It has got a fancier interface, a wider range of subjects appearing per unit time and a lot of hotheads looking to tear apart anyone whom does not see politics or religion the way they do.

I might visit there again but I doubt I could be comfortable there.

J0E's avatar

The only other Q&A site I use is the one I made.

link

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

I used to be shit-hot for debates, but I just can’t find that fire any more.

ETpro's avatar

@phillis Options are good! :-)

EgaoNoGenki's avatar

I also thought, @ETpro , that “Flutherers” were called Flutherites.

ETpro's avatar

@EgaoNoGenki The liberals here don’t want to be called Flutherites anymore. :-)

gemiwing's avatar

I looked at that answer bag site- meh. It looked more for having questions and not receiving answers. I looked at Y!A and it looked like a middle school playground. I visited BlurtIt and the spelling was so horrid that I couldn’t tell what the question was.

I found Fluther via Google and I am enjoying my time here. Can’t say if I will stay forever (as long as forever is on the internet anyway) yet for now it suits me.

LTaylor's avatar

Since Answerbag changed formats I go between Answerbag.com, fluther.com, blurtit.com, answers.yahoo.com , and mahalo.com/answers/ everynight. They all get boring. Dont get me wrong, they all have perks but they don’t compare to the old Answerbag.

Jewel's avatar

@Vunessuh @AustinusMaximus @jbfletcherfan @jerv @Arisztid @Yarnlady @all

EUREKA! I’ve found it!
The reason I feel so awful and unwelcome on Fluther is that I am afraid to participate!.
It is users who gang up on anyone expressing ideas that the vocal majority don’t like. And the site rules back them up in their prejudices and punishments. If my experience, information or opinion differs from the few who seem to be in control here, I don’t dare speak up unless I want to risk being bashed.
The power of a few is a palpable thing here. There is no balance, and no recourse for those caught in the trap of ‘speaking’ up. To try and deal with it will get one a warning about going off topic (never mind that the original attack was off topic), or the person trying to deal with this issue gets left hanging with a “removed my moderator”.
I am relived to have been able to put this into words! Now I can sleep and begin a search for a site tomorrow that has room for differing ideas.
‘Nite!

Vunessuh's avatar

@Jewel (Golf clap)
Please let me know if you find anything.

Jewel's avatar

@Vunessuh Will do. This has just gotten so ugly in a few threads and the power mongers continue to flail around, trying to draw blood, and the ones who dared to show something unconventional are left to fight it alone with no weapons! Crappy situation. I won’t play by these rules anymore.

phillis's avatar

Jewel, I am so happy that you discovered the clarity you needed! Bless you, darlin’....I know this was bothering you greatly.

Jewel's avatar

@phillis Thank you. Yes, it has. I HATE this. I don’t want to move again. Especially alone! But I want to participate freely and without fear. And I can’t stand watching the users who are braver than me get beat up for expressing themselves. At least AB let us work it out for ourselves. They didn’t openly show favoritism or regulate us into boredom.

Vunessuh's avatar

Many of us have continued to be bullied here. Personally, it is driving me away, which is I know, what some of these Flutherers want. Some have openly stated on their profiles that they officially hate the AB migration.
I’m glad you’ve validated and clarified your feelings because it must have felt awful to feel so damn confused and irritated over what to do. If this site isn’t a place for you to come and relax and relieve stress, then you might as well not put yourself through the torture any longer. It should never contribute to putting you in a bad mood. Good luck searching for something else that can hopefully allow you to express your opinions and ideas openly and freely. Again, keep me posted.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@Jewel I’ve found that I can go against majority opinion here, but it has to be done in a certain way:
* Pick your topic carefully, one that you really know well.
* Carefully phrase your responses, let then know that you know your subject.
* Back up your arguments with documentation, preferably not Wiki, real books.
* Politeness gets you everywhere.

This is not the “food fight” school of debating where she/he who throws the best insults wins. It’s more like a peer-reviewed journal. If you want to swim against the current, you must have your ammunition lined up and prepared. I stay out of politics unless I have a historical point to make. I stay away from religion also, except to clarify some detail of historical point (I for one was sick of the atheist/theist war where nobody was listening to anybody). I don’t expect to influence social topics, but only inject the perspective of an Aspie (and I label it is such).

jbfletcherfan's avatar

Geez…I’m sorry so many of you are still disgusted with it here. Forgive me, but I don’t think y’all came here from AB with an open mind. When I came here from Askville, I was SO fed up with the place that I was willing to hang in here & get in the groove. I think some of you are being too quick to judgment. You’re getting your hands slapped & it’s pissing you off. Chill out, for God’s sake. I got MY hands slapped here, too, at first. So what? I learned from my mistakes, learned what they want here, & I got it.

Two of you here, I’ve talked to & friended. One last week…one last night. (You know who you are) I’d hate to see you leave. Hang in here with us. I think in the end, you’ll like it.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@jbfletcherfan Exactly. We are in a new culture and have to adapt to its ways, not try to take over and mould it in our image. I fought my battle and lost at the former site. There is no other Q&A site that even remotely meets my needs (structure to keep me out of trouble, high intelligence level for the mental stimulation I need). If I ever do decide to raise hell again, I’ll do it on another site, since I respect Fluther too much to do it here.

Jewel's avatar

@jbfletcherfan and @stranger_in_a_strange_land
This isn’t about how I have been treated. It is about my fear of participation because I see how others are treated.
This is not an attempt to change Fluther. It is simply my explanation of why I have been so uncomfortable here.
-I haven’t had my hand slapped. I follow rules well.
-I do not try to swim against the current or participate in food fights.
-I have always carefully written my Q&As and responses. Wherever I have been.
-I do not think that I am impolite.
-I came with an open mind, and an expectation of being treated with respect by the members, and I have been, to a large degree.
But knowledge is no protection here. I am tired of watching anyone with an original thought be pushed aside or bad mouthed into submission without being allowed to stand up for themselves, and the site moderators backing them up with selective silence, deletion or arbitrary warnings.
I don’t think being knowledgeable has as much to do with prospering here as they like to believe. Being the meanest, angriest and loudest counts.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

@Jewel I disagree, my dear. Being the meanest, angriest & the loudest will only get you on the bad side of most of the members here. That attitude isn’t going to get you anywhere. It’s just going to add to your problems. You will gain no friends that way. You also don’t have to be knowledgeable. Just give your opinion in a calm, respectful way. Try to see others’ point of view. No one here has changed my mind about anything. I’m too opinionated for that. But I’ll LISTEN & let others say their piece. I may not agree with what they’re saying, but it’s their right to have differing thoughts. In fact, I’ve seen numerous religious statements on here that make me mad, but I say nothing. Why fight about it? Why cause angry feelings?

You say you’re going by the guidelines. Good. That’s an important start. But I sense a hostile attitude here, & I suggest you chill out a little.

Jewel's avatar

@jbfletcherfan We seem to be using different Fluther sites. My experiences have been different than yours.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

@Jewel (sigh) I’m sorry you feel that way. :-(

gemiwing's avatar

@Jewel—I feel for you. You left a place where you felt free to be yourself and here you’re feeling stifled and unsure.

You have been treated respectfully most of the time here, per your words, yet still don’t feel comfortable because some people are meaner than others. Such is the internet unfortunately. We get all kinds, don’t we?

If someone is ‘badmouthed into submission’ then it is their own doing. They let themselves be silenced either from fear of fitting in, lack of staying objective and being the ‘bigger’ person and knowing when to let the loud baby just keep thinking they are right.

No one can make you shut-up (save for the mods if insults are thrown). The members who have tons of love have simply been here longer- they do not run or own Fluther -we all do. They aren’t any better than anyone else. From the moment you log on and create your own password you have as much power as they do.

I am just a jelly like every other member. You are just as much a member as any of the more ‘vocal’ members.

If you are obeying the guidelines, being helpful and being polite as you know it- then they can sod off. It’s the internet and they can’t control you no matter how much they’d like to.

Jewel's avatar

@gemiwing A beautiful view. I like the way you see things! I wish I saw this issue as joyfully and gently as you do.
It really doesn’t matter!! Like I said before, Fluther feels like wool underwear to me. There is nothing to be said beyond that because this is my point of view, my understanding, my experience of this site. I love almost all of you. I appreciate the site and the way they have treated the refugees. I don’t want to change it. I am just not feeling welcome here and it has been bothering me that I didn’t understand why. When it finally clarified itself, I wrote about it here.
As I also said, I have no where else to go for now. I will be checking in here for awhile, trying to find something to turn the wool to silk, or trying to understand why I can’t.

gemiwing's avatar

@Jewel I really hope you find somewhere you feel happy and comfortable. Wool underwear cannot be any fun! itchy! Maybe you can make a list of what you are looking for- perhaps that will make something become more clear. Good luck!

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@Jewel As a fellow Aspie, I feel for you. We hate change of any kind, I recall you reminding me of this once. People were treated no better on our former site. There were just as many cliques and bad attitudes there. It was just a larger site, so it was a bit easier to find a group to fit in with. I think it’s just a matter of learning to feel comfortable here. There are many Flutherites who will welcome you. I consider myself one of the collective now, albeit a newbie. I’m careful to show a certain amount of deference to the more senior members, but if I think they are wrong on something I let them know.

phillis's avatar

I am perfectly fine with showing plenty examples of the behavior newbie jellies are talking about – more than enough to make older jellies feel uncomfortable. That would not be my intention, however. Are you not aware that, whirring in the background, there is currently a plan being followed out to specifically discourage newbie jellies so that they will leave? That was told to us by one of your very own. I’ve seen some truly remarkable behavior.

I am truly sorry to stray off topic; I really DO try hard to follow the rules. I have a vested interest in fluther! But it is also unfair to let people flounder here by themselves, so what do I do? I can’t sit on my laurels during a conversation like this while these things remain in the dark, or are soundly ignored.

In fact, I can’t even develop a question for this situation without being accused of ulterior motives. It would be yanked immediately, or worse…...I would open myself to more caustic comments. But if you doubt that this exists, I can willingly create the question to illuminate the trolls, so that you can see what I mean. It would be like fishing in a barrel. I’m game if you are.

Behind the scenes, I’ve tried to calm my own friends down. They’ve been emotional and too quick to make judgements, about one thing, then another. Some of them have been completely unrealistic, expecting to find a comfortable spot long before it was feasible. But the comments and attitudes I’ve seen coming from a large faction of the older jellies has been atrocious. In many cases, they’ve completely disregarded fluther’s own rules in order to deliver stinging blows intended to be cruel.

Please DO ask me for examples, or either reign in your friends. Either way is fine with me.

Vunessuh's avatar

@jbfletcherfan I have to agree with Phillis on this. Perhaps you’re not seeing the behavior of some of these experienced jellies. I’ve even seen it written on their profiles, “I officially dislike the AB migration. I need a ‘dislike’ button for it.” Some worse than that.
At first I thought it was me, so I toned it down, actually read through the guidelines and began following them. Then, people started finding new things to bitch at me about. One person started arguing with me about airports. Not even joking. They’re searching for you to say just one thing that they personally don’t approve of (even if there is nothing wrong with it) and then they go for the jugular. I gave an opinion on an airport I found to be hectic and unpleasant and someone literally began insulting my intelligence because of it. So, I’ve come to the conclusion that it is no longer me. It’s not that we aren’t openminded and not accepting change – most of that falls on the ‘senior’ Flutherers.
It’s immature, childish and they are succeeding in driving some of us away. Good for them. Do they want a sticker for it? Perhaps a cookie?
Sad part is, moderation for the most part allows them to get away with it.
So to say there are no favorities here is ridiculous.
Also, Phillis has just exhibited exactly what Jewel is talking about: being afraid to participate. She hasn’t formed that question because she knows what’s going to happen if she does.
This has nothing to do with the fact that we are having a hard time accepting change. It has nothing to do with the fact that we want to mold and shape Fluther to our liking. It has nothing to do with not being open-minded or receptive to this new home.
It has to do with genuinely trying to adjust, learn and participate and constantly being rejected and scolded for either a little slip up of the rules (nothing intentional; again we’re trying to learn the rules) or for absolutely nothing. Don’t you think after a while you would get tired of it? We’re here trying to make an effort and shit is constantly being kicked in our faces. How inviting and comforting.
And then there have been people like you, who have been very warm, kind and accepting of the influx of new members. There’s not very many of you though. That’s the problem. It’s the complete opposite. I don’t want to offend or insult you or what you have been a part of for so long.
But doesn’t it make sense that ABers would begin going to where they feel comfortable and welcome instead of letting the vultures pick at them?

AustinusMaximus's avatar

@jbfletcherfan You’ve stated that “The mods are strict, yes, but they do their jobs.” Totally ignoring my point that I’m unhappy with what is mod worthy. You say “Geez…I’m sorry so many of you are still disgusted with it here.” No one said that, you’ve put words into peoples mouths. You also claim that “I don’t think y’all came here from AB with an open mind,” but we did so, just because we didn’t like what we found doesn’t mean we’re closed minded. You claim “You’re getting your hands slapped & it’s pissing you off. Chill out…” but that’s also not true. I’ve never had my hand slapped here, nor in my YEARS at AB. You seem to think we want to be “the meanest, angriest & the loudest” when all we truly want is to be ourselves, even if that is a little to red neck for your vaunted Fluther. You say you “sense a hostile attitude here, & I suggest you chill out a little,” and I say your right, you sense hostility because quite simply that is the way you’re treating us. In my two weeks here I’ve asked 1 question and ½ of the responses have been moderated. One because it was a joke answer(which I greatly appreciated) and the other because it was copy and pasted without giving credit to the source. Both answers were fine for me, but not for your site. That is my problem here, not having my sense of humor and my interests, appreciated by the mods and staff.
.
You have shown either an inability or a refusal to understand my needs. You’ve basically called me closed minded, arrogant, ignorant, and a bully. Yet you sense hostility and I need to chill out? Of course you sense hostility, you generated it. So thank you, you’re the embodiment of everything I dislike about this site. Congratulations you’ve just made up my mind to never return to Fluther again.

phillis's avatar

Just for the record, Austinius Maximus does not represent me or what 100% of my experiences here have been. Those views are his, alone. I support him for being a good person and because he is my friend, but in this case, I disagree in part, to the things he has written, nor will I allow this to become a shark fest.

Let’s keep this non-accusatory, new jellies. Produce facts ONLY. I will be the first one to flag your comments if you get ugly.

Vunessuh's avatar

@AustinusMaximus That’s a little harsh. Perhaps you don’t know @jbfletcherfan like I do, but I understand and recognize that she is nothing like the people we are talking about. We’re just helping her to understand why we’re upset. We need to do so by not becoming the Flutherers we’re complaining about. She’s the only person on Fluther (besides ABers) who has been kind and accepting enough to help me understand the site better and not treat me like a foreigner or an outcast. She’s been incredibly patient and I recognize that she truly wants the ex-ABers to comfortably settle into this new environment.
When we type, it is so black and white. We have no idea the facial expressions, hand gestures, body movements or intentions behind someone’s answers and questions.
I know for a fact that she wasn’t trying to be malicious or not understanding.
That is one of the main issues when communicating over the internet. Everyone wants to jump to conclusions over how somebody meant to say something. The senior Flutherers we’re complaining about are doing this to us. Let’s not do it to the one’s trying to help us.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

@Vunessuh Just for the record, I think it’s horrible that some profiles carry such unwelcoming statements from long time jellies. Everyone on here, at some time or the other, has been new. I KNOW how hard it is to come in here & be a newbie. That’s why I’ve tried to welcome people & be friendly. Many times I’ve sent PMs to people saying “welcome to fluther.” I think you were one of them, in fact. You & I have gone on to be FB friends & I’m enjoying talking to you & knowing you. Evidently, some on here are being ass holes to you guys & I hate that. That’s not the image that I want to see on here. Shame on them.

@AustinusMaximus You seem to think we want to be “the meanest, angriest & the loudest” when all we truly want is to be ourselves, even if that is a little to red neck for your vaunted Fluther. That statement I copied from Jewel’s post. Go back up & look. I just wanted to clarify where that came from. I can see that I’m not going to get anywhere with you. I’m NOT going to get in a pissing contest with you or any other AB member here that’s unhappy with fluther. No one is asking you to not be yourselves. I’ve become very good friends with 3 ABers on here, & I hope to gain more. I DO NOT represent those who are giving you a bad time. I’m sorry you’re not happy here, & I hate it that you’re so pissed at me & my statements. That wasn’t my intent. Anyone who knows me knows that I don’t go around stirring up trouble. I’m sorry that you don’t see that.

shilolo's avatar

Do you all think it would be easier on everyone if people stopped referring to themselves as former ABers? You can still feel like one, but just behave as if you found this site de novo? When I joined out of the blue more than a year ago, no one harassed me or intimidated me. I just blended in. Seems like the easiest thing to do in my humble opinion.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@shilolo Good point. I’ve been careful not to use that label since my first few days, always “previous site” or some such except in PMs. That may be one of the things that is irritating more senior members. +GA

Vunessuh's avatar

@shilolo The only reason I use the word ABer is to differentiate between the two. I’m not trying to refer to myself as one. I just need a way to describe two separate groups of people.

shilolo's avatar

I understand, but how can we possibly be two separate groups? We’re all amorphous on the internet. My point is that the longer people discuss differences and gripes, the more strain is placed on the system.

Vunessuh's avatar

@shilolo We are two separate groups because certain people (some Flutherers and some Ex-ABers) have made us two separate groups. It’s high school all over again with the cliques and everything. This is not what we want, but that is what’s happening. That’s what we’ve been talking about for the second half of this thread. Go back and read it. That’s what our concern is and why several ABers are leaving.
Regardless, I’m not saying ‘ex-ABer’ because of this reason, I’m just trying to show that it seems to be Flutherers against the AB refugees and the immaturity of it all is driving some people away and making it unpleasant for the one’s who are trying to adjust.

shilolo's avatar

@Vunessuh I’ve read them. My point is that if you (or any other person) had simply arrived on the scene, and then tried to blend in, there wouldn’t have been a backlash as no one would have known to attack you (by you, I mean the proverbial AB “you”). If people are leaving because they don’t like the Fluther set up, so be it. You can’t be all things to all people. However, it saddens me that some people might be leaving because they feel they are being “chased off”, but to a certain extent, this was self-inflicted. I maintain that there never should be ex-AB, ex-wis.dm, ex-Askville, ex-whatever. Viewed in that regard, these problems would have been non-existent.

phillis's avatar

Okay, obviously I didn’t make my point very clearly. I’ll chalk that up as my mistake. The FACT is that there is a movement underway to get rid of the new jellies. The FACT is that there are elder jellies who have anti-new-jelly sentiments on thier bio pages. The FACT is there there is an older jelly raising hell on AB to campaign how much he hates having us here. The FACT is that we are being called onto the carpet publicly for even missing so much as a comma in a sentence. The FACT is that more than a few new jellies are saying that they have been attacked in threads. The FACT is that these threads do still exist for your perusing pleasure, should you care to read them.

Now then…...what do older jellies have to say to this, OTHER than offering an opinion that these things are our fault, or that we are imagining them?

Sorry…..but I will not be made to feel responsible for the actions of others.

Vunessuh's avatar

@shilolo So, because I put in my bio that I came from Answerbag, that automatically gives everyone the right to attack me for not blending in and informing people that I am one of the many new jellies from another site? That automatically deserves backlash? I don’t think so. Since arriving here, I have been one of the few people to NOT participate in all of those annoying Answerbag questions. I’ve done nothing but try to blend in and adjust to the site. Telling people that I am from Answerbag deserves no such backlash. The reason I put that in my bio in the first place, was to allow other ex-ABers to find me and know that I came from there as well. NOT to attract attention or put a target on my back.

shilolo's avatar

@phillis I will address your facts, one-by-one, though I would say that I don’t concede that they are facts.
1. The FACT is that there is a movement underway to get rid of the new jellies.
I disagree. There is no such movement. I would like for you to provide evidence of this “movement”, by PM if you desire, before I can believe this is true. I would think that as a moderator and long-time user, I would be privy to such machinations.

2. The FACT is that there are elder jellies who have anti-new-jelly sentiments on thier bio pages. Please direct me to these users. I would also suggest that the potential actions of a minority do not reflect the behavior or thought processes of the majority. For someone to ascribe a conspiracy to the activities of a handful of people seems extreme. There are jerks everywhere.

3. The FACT is there there is an older jelly raising hell on AB to campaign how much he hates having us here. See answer to #2 above, but also, this being the internet, neither you nor I can be certain that it isn’t the action of some troll (Fluther, AB, or otherwise) giving other fluther users a bad name. We’ve had quite a few people leave Fluther on bad terms who would be more than happy to stir up trouble on another site, if nothing else than to give Fluther a black eye.

4. The FACT is that we are being called onto the carpet publicly for even missing so much as a comma in a sentence. Attention to detail on Fluther long preceded your arrival. That some have rebelled against it is obvious, but it is not directed at you in particular. Indeed, if you stick around long enough, you’ll see that the spelling/grammar /logic corrections continue indefinitely (well into the next migration…).

5. The FACT is that more than a few new jellies are saying that they have been attacked in threads. I’m sorry about that, but I would like to know what “attack” means? Is it a disagreement over a topic or perhaps a fatigue reaction to the plethora of question/conversations/gripes related to AB? I understand you wanting to be vague about specifics in public, but when you generalize like this, it is hard to address.

Now, you may say that this is simply me saying you are imaging things, but I require concrete evidence before I concede any of these points.

phillis's avatar

Here is ONE example of the “us” versus “them” mentality of an established jelly who did not share the view that we are all the same here. We were referred to as cough, cough “answerbaggers” cough, cough
http://www.fluther.com/disc/66979/why-does-it-seem-like-the-majority-of-users-on-fluther/

This is also a prime example of something that should have been deleted, but wasn’t. Even the owner of the site didn’t delete it.

I won’t go so far as to say that is favoritism, because honestly, that would be nothing more than sheer speculation. Since I have come to trust this owner, I tend to view it as an oversight. Nevertheless, it is there in plain view for everyone to see.

If you’ll be patient with me, I will happily give plenty of rock solid examples to back the facts I presented.

shilolo's avatar

@Vunessuh My comment regarding the self-descriptions of being an AB-refugee were not directed at you specifically (I used “you” in the general sense, as in “those of you to come from AB”). However, a large number of others have made a big deal of it, as well as complained about a variety of factors. This is quite similar to what happened several months ago when wis.dm closed, and many users came here, only it was much more virulent then.

When the first wave of AB users arrived, you received the red carpet treatment. Standards were relaxed, duplicate questions were allowed, a special chat room was set up, and people welcomed new users privately and publicly. Now that several weeks have passed, I think that some would like the pendulum to swing back to “normal”. Indeed, as moderators we’ve been tasked with trying to focus everyone (new and old alike) with following the guidelines as closely as possible. While it may feel like we are “picking on you”, in truth, our goals are simply to provide uniformity to the site.

shilolo's avatar

@phillis I think the example you gave proves my point rather than yours. One jerk posts one mildly irritating comment, then gets called out by two people (including Andrew) and ignored by the rest. Probably Andrew felt that shooting down that statement as the owner would do more for relations than simply removing the comment. In any event, how does that make it a giant conspiracy?

Also, I should add it didn’t meet any criteria for removal (i.e. it wasn’t a personal attack or off-topic. You and I may disagree with it, but it wasn’t horrible.). Can you tell me why you think it should have been removed? Not all quips that are flagged are ultimately taken down. We can disagree here (i.e. on Fluther), as long as it’s done reasonably.

Vunessuh's avatar

@shilolo I began crafting a beautifully eloquent response and decided to give it up half way. You’re blinded by what’s going on here and that’s okay. Perhaps because these rude and narrow-minded old timers are your friends so you allow them to get away with such nonsense, but scold the newbies who forget to whisper or go off topic or feel like joking around before waiting for a serious answer.
A friend of mine was just threatened to have their account deleted for not participating more positively. I have however seen the links of the two old timers, who shall remain nameless, who have continuously gotten away with their bullshit and attacked this user.
I’m just not interested in dealing with it anymore. I do, however, encourage you to open your eyes and not blame us for getting defensive over horrible old timer behavior.

I hope you have a very fulfilling and happy new year.
V

phillis's avatar

“4. The FACT is that we are being called onto the carpet publicly for even missing so much as a comma in a sentence. Attention to detail on Fluther long preceded your arrival. That some have rebelled against it is obvious, but it is not directed at you in particular. Indeed, if you stick around long enough, you’ll see that the spelling/grammar /logic corrections continue indefinitely (well into the next migration…).”

That makes perfect sense. However, common courtesy precludes being confronted publicly. That is per Fluther’s own rules.
Second sentence under “What makes a good question”:
”.....try to use proper capitalization and grammar….”
It says nothing about actually EMPLOYING perfect grammar and punctuation. It says to TRY.

However, I DID try, and was publicly brought to task for leaving out a comma, which wasn’t supposed to be there in the first place.

http://www.fluther.com/faq/#qs4u

4th bullet: “You agree to use the site with the intention of helping others.”
http://www.fluther.com/terms/

This was not helpful, yet was clearly supported by fellow jellies, even though mods disagreed with her. Besides that, it did not address the question, which was the whole point:
http://www.fluther.com/disc/66377/are-our-governments-leading-up-to-a-carbon-tax-on-our/

If you don’t like the question – skip it.

Why do you suppose this question was asked? It does not appear that this author pulled this question out of his arse. There was a reason for it:
http://www.fluther.com/disc/66866/does-repeatedly-careless-spelling-and-total-disregard-of-grammar-justify-criticism/

Here are complaints that new jellies have been….too generous?
http://www.fluther.com/disc/66866/does-repeatedly-careless-spelling-and-total-disregard-of-grammar-justify-criticism/

Besides the public compaint directly in front of the people who were being “too nice” to the older jellies, this was downright crass. Yet, not a single jelly said a word about that. THey all jumped on the bandwagon to rally around a cause against a “common enemy”. The whole question was in poor taste and garnered rousing support from older jellies. This is also the thread where I was called out publicly for the errant missing comma that wasn’t supposed to be there in the first place:

http://www.fluther.com/disc/65812/can-we-please-opt-out-being-notified-of-awards/

Due to that thread, it was suggested to me that I rewrite my bio page so that “you don’t recieve comments like this in the future.”

My question is, why should I justify missing a comma in the first place? This is a perfect example of mob mentality in exchange for social graces and decency, plain and simple.

So, I DID rewrite my bio. Though I have to say again…..I shouldn’t have had to. I did it for the sole purpose of showing a willingness to my new community, NOT as a victim.

http://www.fluther.com/users/phillis/

phillis's avatar

Hi, @shilolo! Sorry, missed this comment, but responding now:

“I think the example you gave proves my point rather than yours. One jerk posts one mildly irritating comment, then gets called out by two people (including Andrew) and ignored by the rest. Probably Andrew felt that shooting down that statement as the owner would do more for relations than simply removing the comment. In any event, how does that make it a giant conspiracy?

I wasn’t irritated, mildly or otherwise, by this comment. You rightfully asked for concrete evidence and I gave it to you. Please note that I did not, at any time, allege or infer that the anti-newbie sentiment was held by all, or the majority of, the jellies. What I am saying is that it is prevelant amongst some of the most active members of fluther, which forces us into a daily corner. We can either put up with it, or leave.

Contrary to several statments here made by nicer jellies, this is NOT a friendly environment. I intend to see that this is brought out into the light one way or the other. That you asked for concrete evidence is to my advantage, so I am happy to comply.

I cannot address the “giant conspiracy” because the two people that told me would not prevail upon the privacy of the jelly who was nice enough to let them know. Instead, they left fluther. I withdraw the fact.

shilolo's avatar

@phillis Perhaps we can discuss this in PM or in the Man O War chat room? I would say that, having now read through all of those threads (sigh), that you really need not take everything so personally.
Carbon tax: One notoriously cranky user makes an offhand remark and another has his comment removed. What is the issue?
Spelling: That user is brand new. He isn’t a veteran, and quite likely did pull the Q out of thin air. Also, if you search Fluther and spelling you’ll find many questions dealing with the same theme (I’d venture more than 20, though I didn’t count). You aren’t being singled out!. Those comments are all generally about spelling and grammar. I didn’t see one comment directed at any one user or group. I think you are seeing bogeymen where none exist.
With respect to the comma issue, I’m sorry that that happened. But you are neither the first nor the last to be the recipient of unsolicited grammar “advice” from Gail. Again, you aren’t being singled out. I don’t know how many more times I can say that.

Lastly, with respect to your last quip, I’m sorry you feel it isn’t friendly. But, I fail to see how several incidents separated in time and space coalesce into a pattern. You allude to “two people” and “one jelly” who let them know. Again, this kind of vagueness doesn’t help anyone. I respect that you withdraw the “fact”, but your suggestion of it alone irks me a bit. I’m a moderator. I talk to Lisa (our community manager), Andrew and Ben daily. Yet, some sort of “deep throat” has spread the word that we want you to leave? Why would we want that? The site wants and needs to expand. It would be bad business to drive people away. I just don’t get it.

In summary, are there some users who cannot deal with the new additions? Yes. Are they vocal? Yes. Are they in the majority? Absolutely NOT! As I said above, there are jerks everywhere (both as older users and new additions).

phillis's avatar

I didn’t say I was singled out. I said I was one of the many, dear. I don’t have permission by the other new jellies to use thier particular examples. This isn’t being presented to you from an emotional standpoint. Again, I am presenting the concrete evidence that you asked for.

I am currently asking several jellies for thier permission to post publicly several of their PM comments regarding the treatment of new jellies. If they say yes, then great! It will show that this isn’t just “us” taking things personally, as you alledge. If they say no, then I will withdraw from the conversation, no hard feelings.

I cannot possibly cruise the site for further examples. I am not invested enough to sustain an argument. What I intended was to make the points and be done with it, not debate whether the attitude exists or not. I’ve already done that, just with MY examples, alone. If other jellies care to provide links, that would be helpful, but is not necessary.

shilolo's avatar

@phillis If you opt to identify PMs that are negative, please send them to me in PM rather than in public. As I said, it would be easier to continue the discussion there and also would avoid the public embarrassment of posting PMs. Thanks.

phillis's avatar

This is the first person who responded back to me with a “yes”, giving me permission to publicly post thier comments.

24 minutes ago You privately said :
Sorry, I was on the battlefield on another question. GEEZ! these jellies can be nasty.

16 minutes ago Val123 privately said :
Yes they can! Very condemning and judgmental! You’re from AB, right?

16 minutes ago You privately said :
Yes, I am.

Ahem….may I please use this comment for this thread? Pretty please?
http://www.fluther.com/disc/66858/how-many-flutherers-are-also-active-on-sodaheadcom-or-other-social/#quip1017699

15 minutes ago You privately said :
By the way, I was NOT referring to the jellies I am in current communications with.

phillis's avatar

I feel no need to go private, since the above links were indeed PUBLIC. If they can be public without censorship, then I expect that no censorship will come to me, either.

No disrespect intended.

Val123's avatar

Gosh, you AB’ers…gosh…..I feel for you. This place is really OK. It’s just a different…culture. Different rules. Different expectations. When the wisdmrs flew in, enmasse in one day (back in May, I think it was) it was kind of the same. Like a giant, “JOMP BACK!” We don’t like this change! A lot of hostility…..but from a relatively few people. Lots of folks like @jeruba and @AstroChuck and many others welcomed us….but it was the handful of hostile people that it’s too easy to focus on. Focus on the folks like @jbfletcherfan who AREN’T doing that…..JB is good people. Hang in there guys…Yes, compared to Wisdm, I feel much more hesitant to express my real views. At least until I’ve earned my Elder Wings here!

You are welcome by the majority. We’re just kinda quiet, you know?

shilolo's avatar

@phillis Getting back to whether correcting spelling/grammar is helpful, this is clearly a matter of perspective. You find it harassing/annoying, while others might say that it is indeed helpful. Personally, I fall into the former group (unless the writer uses textspeak), but not everyone feels that way.

Finally, I respectfully have to disagree with your interpretation of your examples. I would be willing to bet my life that far worse behavior exists (existed) over at AB. Having read many complaints now about the lack of moderation over at AB, I wouldn’t be surprised to find much harsher treatment there.

avvooooooo's avatar

@Vunessuh I started to list all the ways you’re wrong in this thread and then I decided that I had far better things to do with half an hour.

Vunessuh's avatar

@avvooooooo List them if you must. I’m clearly not the only one who shares my same thoughts.

Actually, I’m in a good mood right now. Don’t even bother. Since we both seem to not be worth each other’s time, we’ll leave it at that. Why make it more of an issue?
If you couldn’t tell, I moved my concerns to private messages.
If you feel we have more to talk about, you can do the same.

Val123's avatar

@Vunessuh @avvooooooo Dang it!!! @avvooooooo is good people too! Crying here….

ETpro's avatar

Thinking of founding the Rodney King School of Peacemaking. Anybody want to be on the staff? ;-)

Vunessuh's avatar

@Val123 I do not think horribly of either of them. I don’t think either of them are not good people.
In fact, I love @jbfletcherfan. She’s great! We’re already friends on Facebook. :)
@avvooooooo and I have our differences, but not enough for me to dislike her at all.
So, stop your crying. ;)

phillis's avatar

I held no illusions that I would be heard. As such, my expectations were nonexistent, and I am not left disappointed. I produced the evidence asked for that applied to me, or that applied to new jellies, in general. I could not risk involving others who would have hell to pay if I’d chosen to use their threads. As you can see, they are unwilling to participate to that degree. A concerned person might ask why.

I thought that I was very clear on the grammar issue. Correcting someone PRIVATELY was what I suggested. I did not suggest for anyone to bust a stitch because being a jerk means having to keep a civil tongue. It was not an outrageous request.

Along with that, I produced the very words that the owners of the site used, and provided the link. They did not say DO IT, or else! They did not say “Use proper grammar or risk being rudely confronted in front of everybody.” They said to TRY to use good grammar, and left it at that. It seems like the jellies have taken it upon themselves to make quite a bit more of it than the owners intended. Pardon me while I take this moment to no longer give a damn.

Apparently, you, as a moderator, feel it is perfectly acceptable to confront in an open forum. If that is what you think, you should make it plain and clear so that everyone can see it for themselves, and not have to waste their time arguing a pointless conversation. Maybe it wasn’t your intention, but you’ve excused away every suggestion I’ve made where social graces and common decency SHOULD have been used, and excused away every single example I gave that shocked everybody else due to it’s utter lack of care or concern for anybody else.

Answerbag was a self governing board. We had the ability to police ourselves, and we DID. New people were welcomed and shown the ropes. We made it a point to help them feel acclimated, and any ABer who mistakenly thought it was okay to be rude was instantly admonished by their AB peers. So please do not make the mistake of saying we were like this. We sure as hell weren’t.

Thank you for being entertained. I consider this matter closed (with you at least). The only thing I regret on this thread is having to lower my own standards in order to make my point.

Best wishes for the coming new year.

phillis's avatar

@avvooooooo Your comment was completely unnecessary and unhelpful, not to mention publicly degrading and flaming. All four of those points are specifically addressed in the fluther’s terms as unacceptable to this site. In the spirit of fluther’s accepted codes of social conduct, I am confronting you publicly. I would appreciate your adherence to fluther’s rules and regualtions. Thank you.

Fluthermucker's avatar

To Whom It May Concern: One of the greatest issues I had with a former Q&A site I belonged to was lack of moderation as it related to trolling and flaming. Here at Fluther there is really not so much of a trolling problem because of the way it is set up, which is a real plus. However, there is certainly a disproportionate amount of flaming and unwarranted abuse that comes from the “Old Guard” of Fluther towards former members of “You Know Where”, as opposed to the reverse. No, I do not have case studies or reams of documentation to support my hypothesis, but one or two answers in this thread should suffice to prove my point. And plenty of others have been shown (but let’s ignore those pesky facts) so I feel redundancy is not necessary. Perception is reality, and my perception is that there is a growing antipathy and animosity between the “Old Guard” and newer members, supported (possibly even encouraged) by a moderator or two.

People can deny or denigrate it all they wish, but it is there. And until people are willing to make sure there is fair treatment for all members, (from flaming, slamming, name-calling) there will continue to be a problem.

I guess you could just eliminate all accounts from Dec. 11, 2009 until now and no longer accept new members. That should make everyone happy.

Moderators, my response awaits your removal…

shilolo's avatar

@phillis I’m truly confused. I entered this thread to try and calm tensions. You cast numerous aspersions and asserted they were FACTS. I asked for evidence since that seemed to be the most transparent way of dealing with your “FACTS”. I’m sorry to say that your evidence is lacking. An objective observer would undoubtedly say that this is “much ado about nothing” (indeed, numerous ABers have contacted me to say just that). It is the hight of hyperbole to suggest that the comments you linked to were “shocking”, or that the guidelines are treated like a legal document. Furthermore, I invited you (here and here) to discuss this in private, but you chose to continue this discussion here. Please do not insult me by implying that I chose this route, when in fact, I did not.

I am done with this thread. I have tried my hardest to understand what you are complaining about, and have bent over backwards to accommodate you. I really don’t know what you want from this site, and from us.

avvooooooo's avatar

@phillis In fact, it was not. You think its this horrible, horrible thing… but it isn’t. Your interpretation of many things in this and the other threads that you’re bring up shows that you’re taking things way further as a much bigger deal than they really are. You’re also often wrong in this thread, but I hadn’t quite read down far enough to comment on your postings.

You said “I don’t mind the rules, because I get them….they make sense.”

The rules do make sense. Some things that are not “unnecessary and unhelpful, not to mention publicly degrading and flaming” will not be removed just because someone decided that they are. That is just something that you’re going to have to deal with if you choose to remain on this site. Your interpretation is not the only interpretation, nor is it the one that ultimately matters. If something remains even after you protest it, maybe asking yourself why it might remain, instead of protesting it some more, might be helpful. You might find that you are again blowing things out of proportion.

Thanks for pointing me toward one of those threads. I did see what was indeed a personal attack by an AB migrant, which is against the guidelines, that needed flagging.

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] Please everyone… take a step back, and take a breath.

augustlan says: It truly pains me that people are feeling unwelcome here. There are a few instances of people that are unhappy with the migration, but they in no way represent the majority, nor the management. We do not censor such sentiments, as they are not against our guidelines. If someone is making a personal attack, we do remove it. Otherwise, people are free to express their displeasure.

avvooooooo's avatar

@Fluthermucker When you post a smart-ass non-answer first on a question, it will be removed. I think this has been explained, but that is something that is discouraged as I’m sure the mods would tell you if you contacted them about why you are having so many answers that are pulled from the site.

Vunessuh's avatar

Thank you mods for proving my point that you only moderate some of the unhelpful and pointless responses, instead of looking past who posted them and focusing more on the content of the response.

Fluthermucker's avatar

@avvooooooo I never said a word about my answers being removed. I’m not sure where you even got that, unless it was from a mod. What I object to is being called a “Dick” on more than one occasion, watching people being labeled as racist or homophobic for asking a question, or seeing an entire group of people tagged as something in a question that does doesn’t “prompt a thoughtful discussion” or “would be better suited for the chat room”.

My smart ass “Harumph” answer is because I do not believe those questions should be asked and tolerated to begin with and I have flagged them. Bloody lot of good that does, you know, when you’re an ABer. They stay up…or are removed and then later put back (friends in high places)

phillis's avatar

@Shilolo For the final time, what I asked for was PRIVATE confrontation, and decency within a public forum. Why is this such a foreign concept to grasp? I will say no more about it, as that point is not being heard. It isn’t an emotional decision; it is an energy-saving maneuver. Everything I mentioned IS a fact. It’s right here in front of you, on this thread and many others. For the second time, I’m saying this. I’ve decided not to discuss it with you any further. Please respect my wishes.

@Awooooo – The rules make PERFECT sense. How jellies have bent them to thier own advantage is what remains unclear. Again, I ask that you adhere to the rules as they are written, not per what is convenient to you, and not make unnecessary, unhelpful comments. It is counter-productive to the current dialog. Thanks!

Dr_Lawrence's avatar

I’m very new of Fluther (about 2 weeks) and despite being very outspoken on many topics, I have not been subject to any grief from anyone, even when I expected that I might.

I’m not clear on what the tempest in a teapot is all about!

There are alternative websites where juvenile behavior and inflamatory unsupported arguments seem to tolerated if not welcomed.

If this website has certain minimal expectations of its contributors, I can’t see that as a horrible thing. Honest disagreements seem well tolerated so long as people support their viewpoints with reference to fact and people make an effort to make their questions and answers phrased in a reasonable quality of English.

I still don’t know who is a long term Fluther participant and who migrated here from AnswerBag unless they have recently identified themselves as being new or old here.

Frankly, it does not matter to me because I’m interested in trying to answer questions on topics I know something about, and to read answers on topics that sound interesting where I had nothing to contribute.

I have appreciated some clever and downright funny answers that clearly were not intended to humiliate or mock anyone.

I get the sense that some people would like to see more humour and just plain goofing around than seems to be the norm here. There are some really funny places on the net to share and exchange this kind of content and I encourage people to get their fill on such websites.

Nobody should expect any single website to meet every need. WebMD does what it does, but not what Fluther does for example. I see it as worthwhile for a website to have a sense of its purpose and to try and accomplish a few things well rather than to do everything poorly.

I am sorry to hear than some people feel uncomfortable with or unwelcome at Fluther. I hope I have not done anything that makes anyone feel unwelcome. If some of my answers have been too technical and that has caused discomfort for anyone, I am sorry.
Please let me know privately what I can do to make my contributions more comfortable for you.

I hope anyone who has been trying to make new jellys feel unwelcome, will cease and desist. There is no need for such conduct here or anywhere for that matter.

avvooooooo's avatar

@Fluthermucker “Moderators, my response awaits your removal…” The reason you’re called names might also have something to do with the smart-ass nature of your answers. Just a thought.

There IS NO CONSPIRACY! Its really getting to sound like something about President Obama’s birth certificate. Pointless and untrue, but perpetuated nonetheless by people who ignore the evidence in front of their faces.

@phillis My comment, however you interpret it, is not against the rules. Until you grasp that everything that you take offense to is not against the rules, I don’t know how to help you. Nor do any number of people here who might be so inclined. Try thinking on that and then talk about what’s going on on the site.

phillis's avatar

@Dr_Lawrence That’s perfect! You said two things that summarize every point I’ve tried unsuccessfully to make.

1— ”......people make an effort to make their questions and answers phrased in a reasonable quality of English.”

That is exactly what the rules say. I do not need to be an English major to enjoy this site. I can operate here while having a reasonable expectation of not being nit-picked to death for leaving out a comma that wasn’t supposed to be there in the first place. Neither does anybody else.

2— “Please let me know privately what I can do to make my contributions more comfortable for you.”

Brilliant! That was my point, precisely. That you prefer to have a PRIVATE discussion should be honored and respected, as I tried repeatedly to say. Maybe this time it will be heard.

gggritso's avatar

ahem

No, I’m only active on Fluther. I find it takes up all of my free time anyway :)

Fluthermucker's avatar

@avvooooooo Chicken or the egg, compadre.. I guess you are more of a blame the victim type, huh?

As to your comment about “Moderators, my response awaits your removal.” I can see your point, but recently I have had the most benign answers removed as well. Some turds just won’t flush, no matter how you try to break them up.

phillis's avatar

Uhhhh…..I withdrew the “giant conspiracy” about a mile back on this thread.

@Fluthermucker I cannot support you as long as you insist on lower standards in your communication. Play nice.

@awooooo- For some reason, the site doesn’t like your name. It never gives me your name, so forgive if I miscount the “o”‘s.

The rules specifically state that answers must be helpful. Yours was not. It doesn’t matter how you interpret that rule. You were not helpful to anyone, not even if it was meant to support the moderator. In the midst of a debate, you threw in a comment that insinuates that one person’s comments were not worth “wasting your time”. At the very least, it was in poor form. Until you understand that, this conversation will happen again.

Think on that, while I think on what you said.

shilolo's avatar

@phillis Now look who is “nit-picking to death” vis-a-vie @avvooooooo. A certain amount of insight is needed here. You think you are innocent? When you say “The only thing I regret on this thread is having to lower my own standards in order to make my point.” Lower your standards? Excuse me? I suggest you take a long hard look at why you are so upset over a comma!!!!?????? There, I put in extra punctuation, just for kicks.

phillis's avatar

Why don’t you ask me what I meant, instead of assuming? You might actually appreciate why I said that. It was not personal. I can hear your point just fine without the extra punctuation. Thanks!

gemiwing's avatar

You guys, this isn’t going anywhere good.

shilolo's avatar

@gemiwing Indeed, you are correct. I’ve invested enough time here already. I’m done, this time for real :-)

gemiwing's avatar

@rangerr OMG Top Gear love! I got a Stig mug for Christmas, I am sipping from it as I type.

Fluthermucker's avatar

@rangerr High-larious. Thanks. I actually giggled at that face.

Val123's avatar

@Vunessuh OK! So I stopped! LOL!
@augustlan Ah. Deep breath here too….let’s cull the good from the bad…..another sifter-moment here.

avvooooooo's avatar

@Fluthermucker Not when someone is actually a victim. Feel free to review the guidelines at any point.

@phillis Again, you’re confusing your interpretation of the rules with the actual rules. This is why you’ve gone on and on and on about several things that isn’t actually any of the things that you attribute to them. Again, you need to look at how your interpretation differs from that of other people and then maybe you would see things differently. You need to work on your comprehension, mine is fine.

“Why don’t you ask me what I meant, instead of assuming?” Oh, the irony!

The site likes my name just fine.

phillis's avatar

Okay, I can take a hit, as long as I’ve earned it. So, you guys are saying that all of these things (rudeness, confrontation, insults) are acceptable in this public forum, is that right? I want this to be very clear while we have moderators watching this thread.

Secondly, that comment was not to you. It was to Elvis, who haas left the building, rather than accepting the simplest task of ASKING me what I meant. Assuming appears to be acceptable, too, but I’m sure you’ll let me know about that. I left her a PM in case she really does care to know, rather than appearing to storm off.

Edited: It was a very nice PM. Not rude, confronational, insulting or PUBLIC.

Val123's avatar

Um. “Can’t we all get along?” I so love so many of the people on this post and it’s like…family going against family…..

Fluthermucker's avatar

~OH YEAH??? WELL… Removed by a Fluthermucker~

avvooooooo's avatar

@phillis “Okay, I can take a hit, as long as I’ve earned it. So, you guys are saying that all of these things (rudeness, confrontation, insults) are acceptable in this public forum, is that right?”

No. What we’re saying is that while you might be interpreting things in that way, they might not be what you’re making them out to be. This is something that we’ve tried to clarify for you, but that you seem to be unwilling to accept. The fact is that there are a lot of AB people out there looking for insults, including yourself. There are several who are blowing things out of proportion when they’re not really that big of a deal, including yourself. There are several who are thinking that they’re being targeted for things that happened before they came and will happen after they leave fluther, including you.

People are making things a into big deal that aren’t. That is what’s being said.

Val123's avatar

Whewwww…..

Vunessuh's avatar

I’ve come to the conclusion, as I’m sure so many others have, that everyone in here is going to believe that THEY are right and anyone disagreeing with them is just stubborn and irrational. If that’s the case, we’re all wasting our time by arguing and attempting to make each other understand our way of thinking. It’s just not gunna happen. Again, it goes back to perspective. Sometimes perspective is more important than reality. In this situation, everyone’s reality is a different scenerio.
Sadly, this is literally going no where.
Sighs

phillis's avatar

I asked a very simple, very direct question that can be answered in a YES or NO format. I know this, because that is the way I constructed it. I am still waiting for that yes or no.

Have you anything of value to add, in the form of a YES or a NO, to that very simple question?

Because I gotta tell ya…..if all you are going to do is point fingers, then we’re done.

phillis's avatar

So, you guys are saying that all of these things (rudeness, confrontation, insults) are acceptable in this public forum, is that right?”

augustlan's avatar

Just a note… @shilolo is a dude.

avvooooooo's avatar

@phillis You asked about something about things that are open to interpretation. I told you that they’re open to interpretation. You think that things are rude, confrontational, insulting and that is your interpretation. But unless other people, namely the mods, interpret it in the same way, yes its perfectly ok.

To answer your question, NO if the mods say NO. If not, if things are not removed, then perhaps your interpretation of them differs from that of others in which case its your problem and YES it is perfectly ok.

phillis's avatar

@avvooooooo Oooh! It gave me your name this time! Nice :)

Okay, I can see that you tried and that you did your best. Thank you.

For the record, I am not angry with you. It’s a tense situation, true enough, but I’ve no interest in fighting dirty. Thank you for being nice. It didn’t go unnoticed.

avvooooooo's avatar

@phillis Insinuating that my response is lame or what have you is the same kind of thing you’re objecting to others doing. If you’re doing it yourself, why object to others? Its the pot calling the kettle black.

As for my answer, its not going to change. Because it is what it is. I’m not tired, I’m not stupid, and I’m not going to stop telling you that if you choose to interpret something negatively when it isn’t then it is a problem with you and not the comment or the person who made it. Because that is obviously what is happening here, even if you choose not to see it.

Fluthermucker's avatar

SAY WHAT?

**Edited**Am I having a stroke or did I just see that? I think Philis is extending an olive branch here, people. I saw nothing about lame, or tires, or stupid…I think we should all let it go and go to bed…or at least to another thread.

Seriously.

phillis's avatar

Uh….What?

Vunessuh's avatar

<—————————— confused as well.

andrew's avatar

All right everyone. Enough is enough. I thought this could hold on until I got back, but I’ll do this right now.

It’s unfortunate that someone on AB is preying on the fear of ABers about how the collective perceives them. I should have addressed that earlier.

@phillis Regarding that other thread, yes, I chose to publicly address the user rather than remove the quip, since I felt that would send a stronger message.

But I’m not going to answer your weighted question with a yes or no, because it’s not a yes or no answer. As I wrote about in another thread, the collective is built on ideals of nuance. We try to eliminate unfairness where we see it. We rely on flags from the userbase. We try and address rude comments in the best way we see fit.

Yes, there have been older members who feel protective and have acted inappropriately. I apologize for that. Yet, the vast number of regulars have been welcoming with open arms the vast majority of Answerbaggers (because of course we’ve seen a few trolls in the migration).

@phillis, I’m not saying that people haven’t said rude comments to you. I’m sure they have. As @shilolo mentioned, though, continually choosing to focus and generalize about the handful of old-timers who generalize about the influx of ABers only continues the process of self-segration.

It isn’t helpful, and it needs to stop.

We’ve seen the trend of victimization from each migration that comes here. It only takes a few people to play on the insecurities of the incoming population. Even if we bend over backwards to welcome a new populations (say, if we PM new users, throw a welcome party, and create a chatroom) there’s going to be feelings that things aren’t exactly welcome. That’s what I’m trying to address here. The moderators have been working thrice as hard as they normally do to keep snarky comments and unintelligible comments to a minimum.

For ABers who are still looking for ways to navigate the site, I refer you to the FAQ http://www.fluther.com/answerbag/faq/, as well as a pointer:

* The last two weeks have had about 4–5 questions about AB a day. The collective has tired out a bit of the self-segregation, so wait a while for things to die down.

cyn's avatar

Are you flippin serious?
Almost everyone has been modded at least once. You guys need to calm down.

phillis's avatar

I’m saying that, just because it happens to other people, does not make it okay when it happens to me. And it won’t happen to me.

I trust I have made my point.

G’nite everybody!

avvooooooo's avatar

Yay @andrew! Thanks for saying that enough is enough!

andrew's avatar

@avvooooooo On both sides.

downtide's avatar

I’ve felt welcome on Fluther since I’ve been here (presumably with the questions I’ve answered, I’ve managed to avoid the more aggressive Jellies). Having said that, the overall mood on Fluther isn’t really what I’m looking for in a site like this, so I am on the lookout for others, most likely to run alongside my use of Fluther.

But Sodahead? Sodahead was the first Q&A site I belonged to, and I left there and went to AB because Sodahead is just reeking with right-wing, fundamentalist-Christian ultra-conservatives. The vast majority of the questions were of absolutely no interest to me because of this. Unless you fit that kind of clique, or you enjoy fighting with that kind of clique, Sodahead’s not much fun at all.

ETpro's avatar

@downtide I’m using Sodahead to hone my debating skills. But most of the right-wing nut jobs there can do little other than reall off a list of insults, constantly change the subject, or simply inisst they are right because their own version of reality has superseded that derived from observation of the real world.

downtide's avatar

@ETpro I commend you on your patience! I couldn’t bring myself to waste the effort necessary to communicate over there.

Arisztid's avatar

@ETpro I commend you as well for putting up with that crap. I used to do similar by going to Holocaust denier boards and taking them on or waltzing into Stormfront to take them on in their anti forum but I am not up to that stuff now. I think of places like you describe sodahead as the political equivalent of Stormfront.

Arisztid's avatar

@ETpro That just does not sound like any fun to me.

Brian1946's avatar

I wouldn’t be surprised if I discovered that the Wraith of god is a moderator at sodaheadless. ;-)

ETpro's avatar

@Arisztid I don’t know if “fun” would be the word I would choose, but most of the bozos there arguing for the far right are so mentally challenged debating them is as easy as shooting fish in a barrel. Now if these sharks would just keep to their barrel, I wouldn’t be so concerned with shooting them. But they are determined to get into the swimming pool and devour the rest of us. There is clearly no room in their world for disenting opinions. They find such freedom Un-American.

@Brian1946 Good old WOG would certainly love the place. I don’t know if there is a word of truth to it but the wing-nuts there all moan about how unfair the moderators are, how lefties can get away with outrageous insults but just posting an honest conservative opinion gets them banned. Read the discussions on the links above—none of them banned—and decide for yourself how much truth is in their words. :-)

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