Rags to Riches: in the United States, can you work your way up from poverty to extreme wealth?

Sure. Why not?

Have you watched the news lately? We are too obsessed with who is sleeping with who, fathering who’s children out of wedlock. We don’t have time for real news.

Not everyone’s dream is to be extremely wealthy. It is mostly hard work. When you work hard and have a clear goal, you increase the likelihood of getting lucky.

Obstacles are unique to your situation. They are sometimes insurmountable, it depends what we are talking about. We could remove the obstacle, maybe, if this question wasn’t so hypothetical and we were actually talking about something.

To go from 0 to extreme wealth in the U.S., capitalize on their stupid willingness to embrace a fad, like the Pet Rock or boy bands.

Yes you can!

Yes, of course you can.

Here is a list of the top 10.

John D Rockefeller
Liz Murray
Ozzie Osbourne
J.K Rowling
Wayne Huizenga
Jim Carrey
Andrew Carnegie
Oprah Winfrey

are among them.

you can! stocks, investments, a great idea, drive, a willingness to take a chance, people do it all the time

My son’s father-in-law came here with nothing at age 20 and was able to retire before he was 50.

the pursuit of happyness? watch it, and its a true story

Yes you can! It takes hard work of course, and some smarts. Also it helps to have the ability to see an opportunity and be will to go for it. There can be risk involved, you have to be willing and able to see beyond right now.

Google J.M. Haggar, founder of The Haggar Co., Penniless and fluent only in his native tongue, he immigrated to Mexico and worked as a “drummer” (door to door salesman). He taught himself Spanish, then English, and then moved to the U.S. where he eventually founded what became one of the nation’s most successful men’s clothing companies. I got to know JM while working for his company’s ad agency. He was an amazing man about whom my mother wrote a book called “That Haggar Man.” Yes, Haggar’s rags-to-riches story happened many decades ago, but I believe the same thing still happens all the time.

No, there is no way to earn extreme wealth by hard work alone. The only way to amass extreme wealth in a single generation is to have some unique talent, movie star good looks, make some important or unique discovery, create some work of art or invention, or be in the right place at the right time to market some product that masses of other people want to buy—or be befriended by someone of extreme wealth, marry into wealth, or otherwise win one of life’s lotteries. Horatio Alger stories are a myth.

@Marina – J.K. Rowling is British. ;)

To answer the question, the myth is that you can. That’s what a lot of American culture is based on – the idea that anyone can grow up to be fabulously wealthy if they work hard. It’s what keeps the shackles on, too. It’s a little bit like an oasis in the desert that you can see, but never quite get to, because it’s a mirage.

In reality, it’s pretty much a no-go. Sure, you can name the top ten or twenty or even top 100 that have, but the U.S. population is about 300 million people, so chances are slim. It’s enough to keep people buying lottery tickets, and it’s enough to keep Republicans saying, “If only you had tried harder, you could have made it, you lazy bum.”

Of course they can, you just have to work for it.

@laureth The fact of the matter is that you CAN. And as of right now you are still free to try or not. It’s not like that in EVERY country. It will take will power and drive along with ambition but it CAN be done. The reason the number who has is small compared to the population is because MOST people settle and are happy without it.

Admiral Boorda started out as an E-1. that’s the lowest grade of enlisted personnel. When I left Italy, he was head of CINCUS-NAVEUR, a few years after that he was Secretary of the Navy.
So, yes.

So then, basically what you are all saying is that the only reason a person doesn’t become extremely rich is because they don’t working hard enough. Anyone see the problem here?

No @Zuma not at all. Some people are not willing to take the risks involved, some are not educated and or don’t feel that education is important. ( I don’t just mean formal education)
Some are content with their status and don’t think about changing it. Some people don’t believe that they can do better. For those who don’t think that they can do better and that only the rich will get richer. In that case I am sure they are right.

@Zuma That’s not what we are saying at all. We are saying that if you want to you can. I personally make a comfortable living and have no desire to have millions of dollars. If I wanted to I could do something different to try and have that. It will take hard work and determination. It will require the ambition to achieve it.

@Zuma I didn’t say, think, or imply anything of the kind. I think the point people were making, and I could be wrong; I went to high school in the 70’s, is that working hard and setting one sights high and working towards a goal is probably a necessary ingredient to the mix. One can do all this and still not succeed, but the chances of success increase proportionately by consistency and determination. Of course, there’s wealth, achievement of goals, and then there’s EXTREME wealth, if I’m reading your definition correctly. As to that, isn’t there maybe such a thing as too much wealth? Too much ahhhhh, I don’t want to start philosophizing. I have to get ready for work. I’ll be interested to check this thread out in the morning.

“We are saying that if you want to you can.”

No, you can’t. Wanting has little to do with it (although it does help to be motivated). Bill Gates didn’t get extremely rich because he worked hard, he got rich because he worked hard and because he had a product that everyone wanted (and because he was a ruthless monopolist). John D. Rockefeller didn’t get extremely rich because of hard work alone; he discovered oil (and was also a ruthless monopolist).

No, no matter how hard you work, no matter how high you set your sights, no matter how determined you are, there is simply no way to earn vast wealth (generally regarded as $10+ million) by hard work alone. Hard work has to be combined with some other talent, break, or fortuitous accident. People do not become rich by setting their sights high, or having the proper attitude, or any of the rest of it. These things help, but they are not what make you extremely rich.

Hard work helps, but people also become extremely rich without working hard at all. The inventor of the pet rock, for example, basically lucked out in having a product that became a fad. If you don’t believe me, read this link.

There are millions of people with drive, self-confidence, ambition and talent who want to become extremely rich who don’t become so.

Your Question does say extreme wealth, and for that to happen you may have to have more going for you that determination and hard work. I was talking about being wealthy as opposed to being poor. I guess wealth is subjective. Or is that relative?

As long as we insist on making money by way of working for other people – earning – then even the already wealthy cannot acquire extreme wealth.

One of the poorest kids I went to school with is now worth billions. Literally, billions.

Yes, it is possible to go from to rags to riches in the United States. The way to do it is to be very lucky, fill a need that eople are willing to pay for, and follow through. Can everyone do it? – NO – Why? Because the relevant word here is lucky. I can invent a way to produce music just by waving your hand in the air, but if I need money to produce the product, and someone else finds a source before I do – he wins.

The random factor is always the deciding factor, but don’t discount the fact in a ‘free counry’ like the US, you have a lot more opportunity to succeed than in the more repressive countries.

It is helps if you are a psychopath, so that your ruthlessness is not fettered by conscience. It appears that, despite some recent bad press, investment fraud still offers many opportunities for amassing obscene wealth, as does drug dealing.

@ratboy Despite Balzac’s maxim that behind every great fortune lies a great crime, I don’t think that psychopathy necessarily helps. You do, after all, have to be in a position to commit a great crime (like Joseph Kennedy during Prohibition), which is as much a matter of luck as being in a position to invent the next great fad.

It is a common misconception that the rich don’t steal because they don’t have to but, in fact, the capitalist class is in a position to perpetrate the greatest crimes—and they do. One of capitalism’s natural tendencies (like boom and bust) is toward monopoly, collusion and organized crime. That’s why government regulation is so important (and also why it is so vigorously resisted).

Drug dealing is actually a very poor way to gain wealth. In fact, 95% of drug dealers make less than the minimum wage.

@Zuma To the contrary, government regulation is welcomed by many businesses. They agree to certain limitations in exchange for laws that make it difficult for start-up companies to compete with them. Hence licensure for things like beauticians, taxi drivers etc. as well as the deals cut by various industries in exchange for their support for the proposed health care. T. Boone Pickens’ support for cap and trade is based on his company’s preparation to make the switch from selling a free market power to selling a subsidized power: in situations like these the businesses don’t just read the writing on the wall, they help with spelling and punctuation.

I am certain that the possibility of rags to riches is still there, however, in the current economic crisis the likelihood of such things is much less than in a better time.

There has to be money to spare in order to be spent and thus be earned. The general public has less money to burn now than in the past. Also, the opportunities, even just plain jobs, are much less than in the past. Not only is the economy in very bad shape but the nation is much more overpopulated now than it has been in the past. Also it takes more money, from what I have heard, to get started than it did then (even when inflation is factored in) and there are many more hoops to jump through to do anything.

So, yes, wealth can be accrued today. No, it is nowhere near as easy as it was in the past and, no, it was not easy back then.

It has been said by many in this thread that “where there is a will there is a way” is not true and I agree. Having the will and the drive is essential unless someone gives it to you, however, without luck and talent you are not going to make it to any serious amount of wealth.

You can have all the drive and desire you want and that is hardly guarantee of wealth. If that was, there would be a lot more wealthy individuals.

@Factotum I will agree that to the extent that businesses willingly accept government regulation, it is regulation that they have been able to write to their advance their own interests and convenience. However, the history of regulation—from the scandalous conditions in meat packing plants, to the implementation of seat belts and mileage standards, to the minimum wage and other labor laws, to the regulation of banking and finance, to measures to mitigate global warming—has been one of strident opposition.

@Zuma I agree with your point on the meat packing plants and seatbelts. Mileage standards would have taken care of themselves once foreign cars were competing and gas prices rose. Minimum wage and other labor laws…mixed bag. Minimum wages decrease the number of jobs offered because some people’s labor isn’t worth that much money. So the employer does without.

Our current woes are largely due to regulation of banking and finance as politicians decided that banks should give more loans to people with poor credit history and little or no collateral. It is a truism that people who most need loans can’t get them. There is a reason for that and that is that loans are a risk. Banks with too many bad risks are, in a word, bankrupt.

As for global warming mitigation it isn’t currently worth doing as it is high cost to low – if any – mitigation.

Businesses should oppose the government telling them how to do business. As should individuals. Because a) that’s not what government is for and b) government doesn’t necessarily know any better how things should be done than anyone else.

@Arisztid I agree. Early on in American history money was just lying all over the place. All you had to do to have a plot of land was get to where it was (and keep the indigenous people who were already there off of it). If you happened to find gold you could buy that land, ditto oil.

Now all the land is owned by someone (or the government, thanks, guys) and business licenses are expensive, numerous laws describe how your business shall be run and what fixtures you will have to purchase to legally run it. And there are lawyers standing by to sue you at the first hint of a wronged customer.

Last years winners work with governments to ensure this years winners won’t include competition for them.

Despite all of this, people do make money. The poorest don’t generally STAY poorest and the richest don’t always stay richest either:

A Treasury Department study of the 1996–2005 period used IRS income tax data to discern considerable mobility: more than 55% of taxpayers moved to a different income quintile. More than half the people in the lowest fifth of earners moved to a higher quintile over this period (29% to the second, 14% to the third, 10% to the fourth, and 5% to the highest).

Moreover, there is a great deal of movement in and out of the top income groups. The Treasury data show that 57% “of households in the top 1% in 2005 were not there nine years earlier.” The rich sometimes get richer, but they get poorer as well. The study also reveals that income mobility has increased, not decreased, during the past twenty years. For example, 47.3% of those in the lowest income quintile in 1987 saw their incomes increase by at least 100% by 1996. That number jumped to 53.5% from 1996 to 2005.

- From “The Politics of Envy” in The Hoover Digest, by Jeffrey Jones and Daniel Heil

Daymond John is one example, Snoop Dog is another, H. Ross Perot, David Filo, and Mark Elliot Zuckerberg are just a few.

There are many ways to success and wealth as the before mentioned have taken many different courses. Sometimes it is forethought, sight, vision, and even luck. Sometimes many of these come together at the right time. Historically around 80 some odd percent done it by way of real estate. But if you have the vision, timing and a little luck, you can create or invent something that the public embraces as “must have” and you are on your way.

They may not have been living in a shack when they started but seeing where they are not from where they started it can be seen as rags to riches even though it took some a while to get there.

It happens, but it’s not the norm, and is becoming less so. There are many systemic blockades to pulling this off.

For example: the poor generally have less access to health care, and are thus at higher risks of all sorts of chronic illnesses, which will further impoverish them if manifested. A person born to a poor parent of poor health has a much higher risk of chronic illness, and thus medical indebtedness, and reduced earning potential as well, and the cycle repeats…

The food system in the united states favors high calorie, high carbohydrate diets. Though there are many alternatives, a person with little money will typically buy food that is worse for them nutritionally, which puts them at higher risk of illness, which increases debt, limits earning potential, and imposes those same risks onto their children. The cycle repeats.

Education is called “the great equalizer” by some, but high schools in poorer areas are underfunded and poorly managed. Student retention is low, and the ability of the graduates to compete with those from better schools is limited, and their access to financing for education is also limited. When I hear of a college applicant that has high grades, high SAT scores, and community service on their transcript, the first thing that comes to mind is not “that is a good student,” but “that child didn’t have to get a job to support the family.”

Rags to riches can happen, but it requires special circumstances, and a lot of luck.