Social Question

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

Do you think that the increasing population is necessary to retain all the new knowledge gathered from one generation to the next?

Asked by JeanPaulSartre (5779points) March 2nd, 2010

This was inspired by this question. I’m wondering if, as we develop new ideas, and more and more people can be masters, just in different subcategories of an art, if our increasing population is the only way to “store” these ideas so the next generation an the next can continue to expand on them. In the context of the original question… let’s say I master jazz guitar and I’m the best at it, but I don’t really know squat about flamenco, someone else is the master of that… and someone develops a new style of guitar and there’s a master of that… no one person holds all the guitar skills to pass on, and more new skills are invented all the time… how else could this be passed on?

I recognize that out population explosion is not due to this, and that it is outpacing the need based on this idea alone.

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37 Answers

buck19delta's avatar

population increase is a gigantic problem, that will really begin to rear its ugly head in the years to come. the planet can only support so many people, just as the forest can only support so many deer per acre. once you exceed the carrying/feeding capacity, then the result will be starvation, on a massive scale.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@buck19delta um, yes. now as to the actual question…

CMaz's avatar

“is necessary ”

No. Voyager has proved that. All that knowledge it contains. Not a human to be found.

Trillian's avatar

@JeanPaulSartre I think what your reference is basically about is inspiration. Nobody will ever play exactly like SRV, but we can listen to him even though he’s gone. then at some point, someone with lots of talent can hear him and be inspired to try something else that he/she may not have thought of without first having heard him.
So this same concept would apply to the sciences. You have this body of information that someone else can now come and learn without having to go through all the previous steps, then they have the intuitive leap and take the next step.
So this really would not be affected by a population growth, because the knowledge is there, stored in permanent records just waiting for someone to come along and utilize it. That could happen tomorrow, or in a hundred years.
Is that what you’re asking?

john65pennington's avatar

Babies are born and elderly people die. in between, for generations, the elderly have passed on information concerning life. its natural. the increasing population has nothing to do with it. i am older and i have passed on my lifes experiences to my children and other people that surround me. when i was younger, the electric guitar was invented. i was fortunate to have lived in that era. cavemen men passed on the invention of the wheel from its invention, until today. people are people and more people have nothing to do with it.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I am much more in favor of less people but which are much more capable and able to handle multiple skills and retain more information. I am also in favor of AI, obviously.

davidbetterman's avatar

“if our increasing population is the only way to “store” these ideas so the next generation an the next can continue to expand on them”

Our increasing population is not the only way to store human knowledge. That is what the Akashic Records are for.

There are several ways to access the Akashic Records, some are found here.

There is no way of telling which people will be able to inherently access this Universal Field of Knowledge, but most certainly quantity is not the way to go about it.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@davidbetterman I have never even heard of these records -fascinating.

Trillian's avatar

@davidbetterman I would never in a million years have thought of you as a person who would be interested, much less a believer in the Akashic records. Stop the rotation of the planet.

buck19delta's avatar

i guess the answer is yes and no then….... with computer systems, much more information can be stored, requiring less people, to actually store the knowledge. there is technology that is lost, such as the way people ” used” to do things in the old days, and there is new tech discovered. i dont think more people are required to keep knowledge. however, it takes quite a few more people to use higher technology, and the more complex the technology, the more people it takes to make /use it. .

a good example would be a computer. there are a lot of people who can build a computer,with all the components…. but then you have to build the components, and the components are build from smaller components, and basic elements and complex manufacturing processes. there is noone that has the knowledge, to manufacture a computer from scratch, with the information in their head. they have to have a data base containing the information, on how to manufacture the different components.. then you have to have a wide range of people, with a wide range of abilities to build all the smaller pieces, that will eventually make it, to where a single person can complete the computer from parts….so, yes it takes more people.

davidbetterman's avatar

@Trillian @Simone_De_Beauvoir

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” Shakespeare

Some men see things as they are and ask why. Others dream things that never were and ask why not.George Bernard Shaw

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

So lots of people are already bringing up physical media as storage, so on to my final question of the day

Trillian's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir You all seem like such hard headed rationalists, it would never have occurred to me to bring up Akashic Records. They are attained by out of body experiences…A lot of what I learned is considered esoteric, and I saw early on that people scoff at god and Christians here, so I just figured any assistance or insight that I had from that part of the house would be discounted.
@davidbetterman Yes, but my philosophy isn’t the issue. I was thinking of yours. And again, I just am floored that you would reference them. I expect nothing but hate and negativity from you.

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Akashic как Арка́дий? ;)

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

That’s more like it @buck19delta Take two ftw!

davidbetterman's avatar

@Trillian What you perceive as hate and negativity from me is simply realism and optimistic hopefulness.
You should see what I wrote for Dr. Seuss’s B-Day thread.

I understand that astrology is actually a science, proven by scientific observation.
I understand that witches were killed because they actually were correct and using what mother nature provides for us, and the church realized that to remain viable, it had to shut them up.
I have philosophies that are as old as time and philosophies which haven’t yet even been considered.

I understand that the powers that be (the money power) doesn’t want us to believe any of this, so they have everyone crying conspiracy theory when someone points out that it is the powers that be who are behind most of the evil and horror in the world.

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

@Trillian Which is ironic because “For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.” (1 Timothy 6:10) KJV – I love me some religious irony. This is stupendously off topic, though.

LuckyGuy's avatar

I passed a tremendous amount of wasted brain capacity on the way to the post office. We need to use these people more efficiently.

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

@worriedguy Maybe we should set up some sort of Matrix-esq storage device… ;)

Trillian's avatar

@JeanPaulSartre Well shiver me timbers! Another time I won’t be so hesitant to throw something out there.
@davidbetterman I was Wiccan for 25 years of my adult life, I know very well about why witches were silenced. The thing is, that you for that reason seem to want to invalidate all of the facets of the Christian faith.
I refuse to argue religion with anyone. Twenty five years being a witch taught me not to try to change another’s mind. But I was just reading about Talleyrand because of some questions I had and I learned that he was a clergyman, even a bishop while being a non believer. And it got me to thinking…
I wonder how many non believers over the centuries were in positions of power in the church. I wonder how they as non believers helped to give Christianity a bad name, by setting ridiculous policy that was never the intention of the Christ. This may even apply to the Nicene Conference, when the decisions were made as to which books would be in the official bible. How much of that was politically motivated?
Because I can tell you as a biblical scholar that there are passages that I’ve found that do not align with official church doctrine and practices. I’ve found several references to what seems to point to reincarnation. This is a concept that makes sense to me, in conjunction with the guff, which is a Kabala concept. Is it possible that Christianity today is nowhere near what the original teachings meant due to non believers who simply used the bible as a tool to “keep down the masses”?
I think that it is a combination of misrepresentation through the ages and modern cynics of today that keep Christianity from being all that it could be. I know that there are a lot of inconsistencies in the bible, but how much of that is due to human intervention?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Trillian on the contrary, I am absolutely fascinated by all religious experience and as a sociologist find it quite interesting – I’ve often discussed my journey and ambivalent relations to ’ higher things ’ – I, myself, was a solitary witch for years and do have some beliefs that can be thought of as spiritual and contradictory to my atheism…I am a fan of Alex Grey and his concepts of a united consciousness and am a fan of learning about people’s esoteric experiences – how people believe and what they feel is always interesting – what isn’t interesting is the hate on behalf of organized religion…

Cruiser's avatar

Technology will both serve to preserve and possibly cause specific dynamics of music to cease to exist. Take tab and or sheet music, there you have all the exact notes that the artist played. To even think you could recreate the sound of a Django Reinhardt without seeing, hearing and “feeling” that emotion and tone of a true master would be all but impossible to do. But you cannot discount the legacy of his playing that is carried on from a guitar teacher who studied his music that is then passed to their student. Then maybe just maybe one student out of thousands may emerge with a similar yet distinct style that will captivate the guitar world like Django once did.

davidbetterman's avatar

”Дмитрий Иосифович, был руководящим работником в Иваново.”

@Trillian “The thing is, that you for that reason seem to want to invalidate all of the facets of the Christian faith.”
Wow, that is a sweeping conclusion for one so open-minded as you portend.

The Christian faith is fine by me. Organized religions within that faith (such as the Catholics) are often suspect. When they fund and participate in Inquisitions and protect their priests from prosecution for molesting little boys then I have a problem with these organized religions.
I, like you, believe that the Bible has been altered and modified. It is quite apparent that books or ideas have been removed which should be included, and other books or ideas have been included which should not have been.
I agree that Reincarnation was probably removed from the bible and that it and Karma are probably very viable realities.
Of course, when you have humans in charge of a religion that has grown so large that they control massive amounts of the wealth on this planet, than undoubtedly you will have problems with the hierarchy. If you read your Bible, you may note that it says it is a Version. It further states that it is King Jame’s Version.
“Is it possible that Christianity today is nowhere near what the original teachings meant due to non believers who simply used the bible as a tool to “keep down the masses”?”
Not only probable, but very likely.

Trillian's avatar

@davidbetterman well, to be fair, I did use the word “seem” because I frequently feel unable to fathom your motives, and can only say what they “seem” to be to me. I’ve been stunned several times by your answers to several people that “seem” to me to be dismissive, adversarial, and downright combative. I cannot see the expression on your face, and I cannot tell where you are coming from, so am left with my assumptions.
I hope you noticed that I framed my entire statement to you in such a way as to invite discussion and clarification rather than a condemnation.
You do seem abrasive and discourteous and I’m not asking you for an apology for your words, I’m simply trying to understand you, and in the process, possibly get you to understand what I’m trying to say as well. I’m also aware that you may not give a flying fuck about where I’m coming from and if this is the case, then oh well. I’d like to continue dialogues with you because you help put some things in perspective for me because you seem to be honest, if nothing else. I’ll ask you for a bit more courtesy when you address me, but if that’s too much to ask, again, I will still try for dialogue.
I see a lot of christian bashing and it has made me wonder about a lot of things that Christians teach. I know that what I believe is a contradiction and these dialogues are helping me to clarify what I believe and what meshes with the bible and what doesn’t. I keep thinking that atheists (which I used to be) don’t have the entire story, or maybe the version of the story that they’ve been given is contributing to their disbelief and being perpetuated by the very people today who should be doing better but are not.
So, if you believe in the Akashic records, is it such a stretch to believe in the existence of “demons” or “angels” on another plane of existence that reflects what happens on this plane?
Maybe we should take this to another format, as it is unfair to the OP.
PS, I don’t understand the reference to Dmitri Iosifovich Ivanovsky. I love the Russian language, and named my son Nikolai.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Trillian neither do I get the reference – as far as I know he was into plants and microbiology

Trillian's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Yes, that’s what I thought too. I’m sure Mr. Betterman will explain to us in his own good time!

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Trillian ..with bated breath, i wait

davidbetterman's avatar

@Trillian & @Simone_De_Beauvoir I googled JPS Арка́дий and found that sentence. I haven’t a clue what it means, so I just googled it…“Dmitriy [Iosifovich], was the leading worker in Ivanovo…”

”..with bated breath, i wait” LOL

I’m just enjoying life and cruising along enjoying this site and the jellies here. I haven’t a mean bone in my body (well, maybe just my talos, which is only mean to me).
What seems abrasive and discourteous is simply straightforward and generally socially unacceptable ideas by which I live.
As a jellyfish you should understand swimming against the flow, which is often the position I find myself in when the flow is going the wrong way.
I know, who am I to say that the flow is wrong?
And yet, who would I be were I not to say so when in my opinion it is?
Often when I am at my most courteous is when I am taken as being a kiss-ass.
Perhaps I could choose my words a bit more judiciously.
Another thing I tend to do is push people against their social training to see what is really going on inside of them. This is not popular, and probably costs me some friends, but it is quite surprising how it opens people up and they reveal their innermost being in minutes, where it often takes years to learn these facets of a person.
I certainly hope Mr. Sartre doesn’t mind this off-topic convo, but seeing who he has chosen for his user ID, the father of “existentialism” and perhaps nihilism, I assume he won’t care too much.
As for Christian bashing, I do it from a vantage point of having been brought up as a Catholic, and having gone to schools taught by some nuns and the school taught by those Jesuit guys.
I think Jesus had some really great ideas which are seemingly no longer practiced in Christendom, “Love your enemies.” “Do unto others.”
I believe in a great many ideas which are pooh poohed by the many as improbable, the Akashic record being one of them. I see-saw in regards to demons and angels, although sometimes when I see what is going on in the world, and meet truly evil people face to face, it is plain that demons and angels exist, and not just “on another plane of existence that reflects what happens on this plane”, but right here and now on this very plane upon which we are riding!
As a man of the Earth, I love all the people, Russian, American, whatever…

Trillian's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Hmm, what do you think. Shall we accept his answer? It seems valid. Or should we jump all over him for the sheer joy of it!~ Hehehe.
Let’s get together on another thread ot off line and further this discussion some time, ok?
This goes for @JeanPaulSartre and @davidbetterman as well.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@davidbetterman Arkadiy is our son’s name – @JeanPaulSartre was just pointing out to me the similarity between Akashic and Arkadiy

davidbetterman's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir It’s a beautiful name. And I wonder if the similarity to Akashic is going to prove somewhat prophetic?! Has he shown signs of learning with no help from you?

@Trillian JUMP

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@davidbetterman He is a bright child but I’m biased – besides, he is like his mom – we share a birthday.

davidbetterman's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Perhaps you have accessed the Akashic record too!

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@davidbetterman well I’m not very good with computers, lol…no, I know what you mean, perhaps you are right…how would I know?

davidbetterman's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir You wouldn’t know, at first. You would just assume that you are naturally quick and bright and answers come easily, without even studying the subject very hard to get said answers.

Inspired_2write's avatar

The basics will always be there, but the instrument may change dramatcially in future.
So that new methods of playing it and learning will change too.

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