Grammar question re: "are" versus "is"?

Initially I would say:
Are – lights and horses are two things.

But I think that the sentence just needs to be restructured as Cyanotic Wasp points out below.

“is”. You’re asking what makes it so exciting, what being a thing. “Are” is referencing the fact that “what” includes two items, when in reality those two items are the singular “what”.

Because it is a passive sentence, “are” is correctly referring to the lights and horses.

What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids, is its lights and spectacularly carved horses.
shortened:
What makes the ride exciting is its lights and horses.

I’m with @shuttle128, it should be “are” since it refers to the lights and horses, which are plural. Try restructuring the sentence a bit: “the lights and spectacularly carved horses are what make the carousel ride so exciting.”

Are. I hate it when people get ‘are’ and ‘is’ mixed up.

As written, either choice “could be considered” correct. I would prefer to recast the sentence so that there’s no doubt, and it reads better anyway:

FROM
What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids, are its lights and spectacularly carved horses.

TO
The carousel’s lights and spectacularly carved horses are the things that make the carousel ride so exciting and fun for kids.

‘Are’ is correct.

“Removed by Space Aliens”

LOL!

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but it seems to me that “are” refers not to the word “what” but to the whole clause “what makes the carousel ride so exciting”. (the “and so fun for kids” part, as indicated by the commas, has nothing to do with anything and is just stuck in there to confuse the question, if indeed the sentence was written for the purpose of asking the question). The clause itself has no indication of whether it refers to a singular or plural item, so you have to look to the lights and horses for the indication of plurality. Does that make sense, or am I just blowing smoke?

Grammar question: Is it he or she?

He turned down a direct offer of sex while he wasn’t even in a committed relationship.
She turned down a direct offer of sex while she wasn’t even in a committed relationship.

Help Jeruba Help!

Simplify it like this…
The…carousel…. is….

I also don’t like the sentence. It might be better to reword it.

The carousel is popular with many kids because the music, lights, and moving horses appeal to many children.

The answer is that “what” is the antecedent, and “what” is singular, so “is” is correct, but it is a graceless sentence. (Those of you saying “are” have mis-parsed the sentence.)

@dpworkin – You’re a smart guy, and you said it well, but I don’t think you’re right on this one. I’m still waiting for the formulation that proves my point, but I’m quite certain on the “are”. It has to agree with the lights and carvings, “what” isn’t even singular in and of itself, e.g. “What are the main reasons for the decline and fall of the Roman Empire?” “What are your favorite songs?” What are, not what is, because “what” has no singular or plural form. Wait, I think that’s it: “what” is a pronoun that does not change form from singular to plural, so you have to determine the noun(s) that the pronoun “what” is replacing to determine whether a singular or plural verb is required. Lights and horses are the nouns that “what” is replacing.

Are.
The sentences changes from: “The lights and spectacularly carved horses are what makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids.” to: The lights and spectacularly carved horses are what make the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids.”
Is what makes. Are what make.

Technically, you can’t call “what’ an antecedent since it comes before the phrase it is replacing. (The actual antecedent in the posed sentence is “its”)

If you were to restructure the sentence to make “what” the antecedent, the sentence would read:

The lights and spectacularly carved horses are what makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids.

The plural on “makes” actually indicates to me that “are” is correct.

What makes my chilli hot is the spices. Without the pepper, my chilli would be bland.

What.. is. What makes reality television annoying is the characters.

Makes sense to me.
Still it is worded horribly. It would be better to turn it around. The characters make reality television annoying. Why even word it so awkwardly?

is…the spice
are…the spices

Are the spices. Is the spice.

@timsnarpdrewen You are correct, and I was wrong.

“What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids, are its lights and spectacularly carved horses.”

“Its lights and spectacularly carved horses, that is what makes the carousel ride so fun and exciting for kids.”

(That would make the singular seem more appropriate)

“What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids, is its lights and spectacularly carved horses.”

“Its lights and spectacularly carved horses are what make the carousel right so exciting and fun for kids.”

The second makes the plural seem correct.

The answer to the question lies in the fact that this is the first of April!

@dpworkin – Really? Hell, I’m so confused now. . .

I feel like watching Dune now. The spice!

The carousel is exciting because of its lights and music.

The carousel is. I was thinking it referred to the carousel. DP says it refers to what. That makes sense too. I don’t know. I still think it should be reworded altogether. It sounds weird either way. Both words still make the sentence sound like an awkward sentence.

@ansnarpen Yeah, really. It is an awful sentence, but your analysis is bulletproof.

And let us not forge “so fun.” Do either write “so much fun” or simply “fun for…”.

Oh I think I understand. The problem is identifying the subject the verb is referring to.

Is is the answer.

Are is correct. Are, Are, ARE!!!!!

It’s “are.”

If you reword it, it could read, “Lights and horses are what makes…”

Ask yourself, “What makes the carousel so exciting?” The answer is “lights and horses.” There are two things that make it exciting. That means it’s a plural. One thing is, two things are.

@stump – What is this, talk like a pirate day?

What makes it exciting? Its lights and horses ARE what makes it exciting. There should be agreement between a subject and its verb, in this case plural.

It’s confusing because the other side of the reflexive uses “what” to construct a noun phrase out of the normally active “to make”.

If you reword it you will change the sentence. Is is correct for the sentence as is.

Damnit! This April fool’s switcheroo has caused me to GA the wrong person!

@timsnarpdrewen That is right. I am the grammar pirate. Are, me mateys!!

It’s a poorly written sentence, but as it is written, the subject is “what”. “What” is singular and therefore the verb should be “is”.

@anplethoraen What is not singular. What is neither singular nor pural.

@ubersiren No, you gave a GA to the correct person!
@plethora is correct.

@plethora No, “what” could be plural. There exists no “whats.”

In my opinion, the subject of the sentence is “What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids.” It’s an abstract subject, but is it singular, and the proper form of “to be” and a singular subject is “is.” I.e. It is.

If you use “are,” you are making “its lights and spectacularly carved horses” the subject. In that case, you have to change “makes” to “make,” which sounds ridiculous. But “what” is the subject, and “its lights and spectacularly carved horses” is the object, so “is” is the proper form.

What do you mean no whats? Have you never been to Whoville and met the whatis?

@ubersiren – You gave the GA to the right person as long as it was me. ;-)

I just remember in school that there must be “subject -verb agreement”. I am having trouble identifying the subject. The carousel, the what, or the lights and stuff?

What= lights and horses. It’s are.

What makes the carousel exciting…
Lights and horses make the carousel exciting.

Both of these phrases are describing what makes the carousel exciting. “What” is a replacement for “lights and horses.”

“What” doesn’t have a plural form. That’s why we can say, “What are those?” and reply with “Those are zombies.”

It’s are. I promise you. Lights and horses are what makes this stupid carousel exciting.

Who even needs a rule; using the words the right way SOUNDS right and using them incorrectly sounds wrong.

The sentence, “What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids, are its lights and spectacularly carved horses.” is simply atrocious.

The lights and spectacularly carved horses are what makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids…

Is Jeruba here? I’m confused with the names. Jeruba must know.

That makes sense though. What can be plural. You are correct.

@ubersiren – Except that it’s “Lights and horses are what make the carousel exciting.” ;-)

This is one of those classic example sentences where the right form sounds wrong. Even if I’m wrong.

Also, this is why German is a superior language.

Well, you have to admit, this really is a great question.

That really are some great question.

Is they?

When you is used in the singular, do you than then use is?
happy now?!

@davidbetterman – “then” ;-)

So than are then?

I propose Jeruba will suggest the sentence be rewritten because it’s unpleasant to read, because of this issue. Any takers?

Oy vey are I confuzzled!

@susanc – Well, sometimes that’s the only way to write the sentence. “Some people claim the carousel is exciting because of its music, but they are wrong. What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids, are its lights and spectacularly carved horses.”

But now its the “makes” that has me confused.

“Some people claim the carousel is exciting because of its music, but they are wrong. *The lights and spectacularly carved horses are what make the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids*….”

Yeah – don’t “make” or “makes” have to agree with “are” or “is”? The “makes” would need to have an “is” to go along with it. I think that’s the crux of the problem @ansnarpenim. It really is a a badly written sentence.

“What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so much fun for kids, are the lights and spectacularly carved horses.”

@janbb – I think that the “makes” functions within its own clause and doesn’t need to match the lights and horses, but I don’t know anything anymore. The more I follow this thread the more I lose my ability to speak English. I will have reverted to grunts by the end of the day.

German is a superior language if you want to be a dominatrix.

The proper one:

What make…...are…...

Trust me.

@boxing – I believe you.

Oy, oy – my head is splitting. Going back to blowjobs with a cold…..

@Snarp is right, and @dpworkin is wrong (not often in issues of grammar).

To rewrite the sentence in another way and preserve most of the same wording and all of the sense:

The lights and the colored horses are the things that make the carousel ride so exciting and fun for kids.

So it is ‘correct’ (but I do agree ‘graceless’) to say:
What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids, are its lights and spectacularly carved horses.

As I said earlier, this sentence structure is too junior-high-ish anyway: “You know what I like? What I like is…” ... boorrring.

Soon we will have the long awaited definitive response…..

Let’s get this much straight: it is not a passive sentence. You don’t have the passive voice every time you use the verb “to be.” Far from it. Passive uses the verb “to be,” but most uses of this essential verb are not passive. “The house is white.” Passive? Certainly not.

The sentence can go either way. It depends on whether you see the subject as “what” (used as a pronoun) or “lights and spectacularly carved horses.” You can argue either case and win. I have worked under publishers who called out this specific construction on their style sheets with guidance on the verbs.

The thing is, both verbs have to reference the same noun. You have a singular and a plural verb. But you must construe “what” as either singular or plural, not both.

“What” refers to “lights and spectacularly carved horses,” clearly plural. What makes this awkward is that the referent for the pronoun comes afterward, so you don’t hear the plural until after you’ve used the verb—in fact, both verbs. So it sounds wrong.

This is correct:

What makes the carousel ride so exciting, and so much* fun for kids, is its lights and spectacularly carved horses.

*You need an adverb because “fun” is not an adjective. It’s a noun.

This is also correct:

What make the carousel ride so exciting, and so much fun for kids, are its lights and spectacularly carved horses.

In ordinary colloquial speech you would allow the ungrammatical mix because it would “sound” right. In formal writing you would have to correct it. The best solution might be rewording.

Interestingly, you can sneak around this with the expletive “it,” which, not being a pronoun, skirts the rules:

It’s the lights and spectacularly carved horses that make the carousel ride so exciting and so much fun for kids.

See, see the “make” and “makes” are key. The Jeruba has spoken. We lurve your red pencil, Jeruba-san (sigh).

An object “is”

Things “are”

It is here. They are there.

Arrghh! That’s not definitive! We’re all right (sort of)? OK, I now throw in my lot with those who say the whole sentence should be rewritten to avoid this altogether. ;-)

No, there are definitely some wrong answers here, if that’s any comfort.

We routinely construct sentences in our magnificent language that challenge grammatical analysis. They’re idiomatic (meaning that’s just the way we say them), but they don’t conform to received rules. This is due partly to the fact that English integrates languages from a number of strains with different grammars and had the structures of Latin grammar forced upon it whether they fit or not.

I’m not in favor of grammatical anarchy. We rely on grammar to support meaning; that’s its job. But when we find English bursting its buttons in various places, it makes sense to let out a few seams instead of trying to stuff it back into its own pockets.

(sigh)

Sorry, “much” is an adjective, not an adverb. “So” is the adverb.

fun: noun, must be modified by adjective
so: adverb, can’t modify a noun

Give the noun an adjective (“much”), and now “so” can modify that.

@Jeruba – From Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: fun
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): sometimes fun·ner; sometimes fun·nest
Date: circa 1846
1 : providing entertainment, amusement, or enjoyment <a fun party> <a fun person to be with>
2 : full of fun : pleasant <have a fun time>

Looks like another page I’m going to have to x out.

@Jeruba – and yet your way does seem more correct. What are you xing pages out of? The Merriam Webster dictionary?

It’s IS….
don’t listen to the others.

<———- Bows before @Jeruba !

@bensnarpimew, the dictionary, yes.

I never heard “fun” used as an adjective in everyday speech until probably the mid-sixties. It used to be “That was a lot of fun,” and all of a sudden it was “That was a fun thing to do.” I remember my mother’s unsuccessful efforts to stamp it out of my sister’s vocabulary. It’s still one of my little hot buttons (I have a few). One can embrace the idea of the language’s changing and still entertain a hearty distaste for some of the specific changes.

Without doing my own investigation, I can’t judge whether that 1846 date you cited above marks the first sighting of “fun” in any form or the first sighting in use as an adjective.

The carousel is, so it is IS. I think? The other descriptive part of the sentence doesn’t matter. The verb is goes back to the noun carousel. If the sentence was the carousel and ferris wheel are exciting, then it is plural because there is more than one noun being spoken about.

@Snarp Lol… yes you’re right. Forehead slap

No, @anjleslieim, sorry. “Carousel” doesn’t get a verb at all. Here it is used attributively—it’s like an adjective for “ride”—and it is not the subject no matter how you look at it. “Ride” is a direct object: <something> makes the (carousel) ride exciting.

“Are”” is the right one.

@benjerubaew Hmmm. Oh, I agree, you are saying Carousel describes the type of ride. By the time I was down at the bottom of the thread to write my answer I forgot the word ride was even in the sentence. But, do we agree it is IS? This thread is confusing to me now, it is so long.

@Jeruba Right! Or, ”...are what makes riding the carousel exciting.” Lights and horses make riding fun.

Anyone else want to go to a carnival?

Geez you guys are frustrating me.

Anyone still says “IS” is right?! Anyone still insists using “makes”?!...... you are fired!

LOL.

The latter.

‘fun IS’... it’s IS!!!

FUN is singular….. so it’s IS!

Make!!! Damnit, I did it again! For the record, I know that “make” is correct. Just like I knew that “are” is correct. In other words, I’m on the winning team.

@boxing To be fair, your last comment isn’t even a complete sentence. And I’m pretty sure it should be “insist.”

@ubersiren, You are hired!

@boxing Great answer!

@ubersiren, no, you are fired again!

Amount to
“This salary increase makes no difference to my standard of living”

Be suitable for
“Wood makes good furniture”

It’s not make… it’s makes…. this Makes Fun…..

<I am going to kill myself>

Fun is the object of the verb. the object is singular. this isn’t difficult.
anyone up for diagramming it? come on.. I’ll race you!

Now this is just getting silly.

Lights and carved horses are what makes the carousel ride so exciting and fun.

It’s simple, but it’s a bad sentence, so it should be rewritten. There are two verbs: “to make” and “to be”. “Lights and horses” make up a compound subject that requires a verb form to handle a plural subject: “are”. (The same principle is illustrated in that sentence.) “Makes” takes “what” as its object, and “what” is a singular object composed of the two elements “lights and horses”. “What” takes the singular verb form “makes”.

It’s really quite simple, but it’s still a bad sentence as written.

What makes it exciting is

With the word makes, you would use is. With the words make, you would use are.

@ThrallKiller You’re almost right. There are two things that make it exciting. So your example should read,

“What make it exciting are…”

or more commonly spoken

”...are what make it exciting”

My mom, who has a masters in English grammar, says it is ‘are.’ Because the sentence contains a compound subject the lights and horses. Hope that settles this annoying argument.

My mother, a teacher with a master’s in English grammar, says “are.” this is because the sentence contains a compound subject, lights and horses. Hope that settles this annoying argument. And I don’t know why the previous answer has a completely different picture.

My mother, a teacher with a master’s in English grammar, says “are.” this is because the sentence contains a compound subject, lights and horses. Hope that settles this annoying argument. And I don’t know why the previous answer has a completely different picture.

@Jeruba OED on “fun”:

3. a. Comb., as fun-loving adj. Also attrib., passing into adj. with the sense ‘amusing, entertaining, enjoyable’.

This is the first unambiguous adjectival use I can find:

1853 N. P. WILLIS (title) Fun jottings; or, Laughs I have taken pen to.

@morphail, thanks. I’m away from home, but I have two OEDs, a big Webster’s, and two Am. Heritages in my living room alone, and I will be looking at them all when I get back.

I hate to be wrong, but sometimes you have to pass through wrong to be right next time.

It is not incorrect to call “fun” a noun, though, because that’s what it is, even if it’s “passing into adj.” (And of course in “fun-loving” it’s still a noun.)

@Maximillian, it’s arguable because the subject is arguable. “What” can also be construed as the subject. That’s why there are two answers. My point (above) is that you have to go with two singular verbs OR two plural verbs, because there’s only one subject and so, either way, both verbs have to agree with it. You can’t treat the SAME subject as having a singular verb in one part of the sentence and a plural verb in the other.

@EdMayhew Just because people are discussing something you already understand, doesn’t mean you have to be mean about it…

@PacificToast it’s okay; he doesn’t really understand it anyway.

@Jeruba You silver tongued devil…:) Love that grammar.

@PacificToast Sorry, bad day at the office yesterday. Would remove it if I could.

To be more helpful, the clue is in the first word. You could get around the gramatical awkwardness by saying ‘The things that make the carousel ride so exciting, and so fun for kids, are its lights and spectacularly carved horses.’

xx

@EdMayhew: You can remove half your sentence with impunity.

The carousel ride is exciting and fun for kids because of its lights and s c horses. Neat, tidy, understandable and unwordy.

@EdMayhew Is ‘xx’ your signature? I like it.

XX is kiss kiss in my mind. Unless your name is Xavier Xu I guess.

@gailcalled True, you can cut it down nicely, but the sentence is describing something exciting and cropping it that much makes it seem a little uninspiring don’t you think?
Language is about more than just function; a sentence has to reflect the message you are trying to convey or it just sounds clinical.

xx

@PacificToast & @JLeslie (kisses)

@EdMayhew: Too many words also sound verbose, bombastic and will tire the reader. When I read good prose, I sometimes analyse why I consider it good. And one sentence follows another, of course. If I had to read too many overblown sentences, one after the other, I would stop and go find an essay by E.B. White.

Try reading this; Synonyms for verbose.

Wordy, loquacious, garrulous, talkative, voluble; long-winded, flatulent, lengthy, prolix, tautological, pleonastic, periphrastic, circumlocutory, circuitous, wandering, discursive, digressive, rambling; informal, mouthy, gabby, chatty, motormouthed. ANTONYMS succinct, laconic.

@Jeruba Alright. I can see that. I did a little bit more digging, and I concede. It can be either of the sentences. But I’ll say now, it sounds like an inverted sentence that could be adjusted.

@gailcalled I guess you’re not a fan of Mervyn Peake.

@morphail: Never heard of him. Point me in the right direction.

@gailcalled You think in extremes

xx

Have a look at Titus Groan… it’s full of verbose purple prose but it’s an awesome book.

@morphail: I just had a look at some of his short poems. That is sufficient unto the day. Some of his writing just misses being wonderful. If only he had changed the meter occasionally and surprised us, like Frost does. (I know what dottles means, but could find ullages nowhere.)

OF PYGMIES, PALMS AND PIRATES

Of pygmies, palms and pirates,
Of islands and lagoons,
Of blood-bespotted frigates,
Of crags and octoroons,
Of whales and broken bottles,
Of quicksands cold and grey,
Of ullages and dottles,
I have no more to say.

@EdMayhew: Is searching for excellence in areas that interest me thinking “in extremes”? Perhaps.

@gailcalled – I found ullage on wikipedia

the unfilled space in a container of liquid

So, dottles and ullages might be the remnants of a jolly night awash in tales of the seven seas?

@fireside; Thank you. I needed to learn one new thing before bedtime. “Dottles” does raise disgusting images, yar?

@gailcalled – imagine the poor young wanna be who had the job of cleaning out the spitoon!
To them, dottles might be a pleasant reprieve.

@gailcalled http://www.mervynpeake.org/gormenghast/prunesquallor.html

Haha, no I meant in writing styles! Why does a sentence have to be brutally short or else over wordy and extravagant? I myself am a big fan of the happy medium.

xx

@EdMayhew: Read some of Hemingway, chapter one of Faulkner’s The Sound and the Fury and then Molly Bloom’s soliloquy from Ulysses. Compare and contrast. Hemingway writes 67 sentences to Joyce’s stream-of-consciousness..two periods in about 18 pages of text.

As I said, excellence is not related to length.

@morphail: Thank you. I read the first paragraph; may I be excused now to go to the bathroom?

@gailcalled Exactly my point, the length of a sentence has no bearing on its quality therefore shortening is not always the answer, but I digress. It’s a matter of opinion not fact and I’m sure we can agree to disagree.

xx

@EdMayhew One of my favorite works of literature is known more for its brevity than its content. It’s by Anonymous, and it’s called Fleas:

Adam had ‘em.

correction: I found this poem attributed to Ogden Nash