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wundayatta's avatar

Do you know if any other people left fluther over the "aggressive stupidity question" besides Just_Justine?

Asked by wundayatta (58638points) April 6th, 2010

I’ve just noticed that Just_Justine’s account had been deactivated, and she had told me earlier that “the fluther you know from the past was a supportive place, to us newbies it can be a hostile place. It would appear tht some of the more “intellectual” members feel our questions are “stupid”. It also would appear the mods concur.” I believe she was referring to this question.

I agree with her critique. I think questions like the one I referenced are designed to rank people, and that is very destructive to a community. I know one person has left. Are there any others?

Does anyone else see a problem with people trying to rank the jellyness of different groups of jellies? Or are you all cool if a group of people get together to collectively (not individually) pass judgment on the quality of others answers or questions?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

166 Answers

nebule's avatar

um…I don’t know at all…but this saddens me greatly… :-(

MarcoNJ's avatar

Well, truthfully….I’ve already had to retract two questions because I just couldn’t seem to re-edit them to Fluther standards. It was frustrating, but I understand this site was designed to provoke conversations….not be flooded with retarded questions. I’m learning.

But, to answer your question. No. I don’t know of any body else leaving for that reason. After all, I’m just a newbie here.

Trillian's avatar

I just answered one of her questions. I told her to contact me! I hope she isn’t really gone!
No, I don’t like the idea, even though I do think that there are people who ask less than stellar questions. I didn’t even get involved in that thread because I can’t say what I think in the correct words and didn’t like the general combative turn it was taking.

tinyfaery's avatar

Like I always say, if someone takes fluther so seriously that they have to leave in a huff, that person can go ahead and do so. I’m not going to mourn over it. Not that I didn’t like her.

TheOnlyException's avatar

Just_Justine left? No :(

Neizvestnaya's avatar

Nope, never even saw that post either. I don’t like the idea of anyone feeling run off but have on occasion gotten ruffled feathers. I hope Just_Justine comes back.

Violet's avatar

I really really liked Just Justine. This is really upsetting.
I know plenty of people who have left fluther, because by people who were not happy there were so many new users.

phillis's avatar

She IS gone. We had a volley of emails back and forth this morning. She told me she was leaving, and why. I think it’s a damn disgrace, frankly. And yes…I know so many people who left here after giving this place a chance that I can’t even count them all. It’s been nearly 4 months since ABers relocated, and massive steps have been taken on both sides, to fix things. But 4 months is plenty of time to get over yourselves. There isn’t a single person here who can walk on water.

sweetteaindahouse's avatar

I think people just need to calm the fuck down. If there were never any new people then everyone would get old and die and so would the site.

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

Get ready to get angry dpworkin

that question sucked because all it was, was complaining that user input wasn’t up to his standards. This alienates a lot of people and gives people the impression that there is a bias against new users (under 5k) and a bias favoring users over 20k.

Not true of course but those questions are basically seen as a “fuck you because you’re not smart enough for me” sort of question.

It creates a hostile environment. This whole attitude of “new users are stupid” isn’t helpful.

ucme's avatar

Ha Ha I can’t be got rid of that easily.Personally I think it’s just going to fester that pathetic belief of a them & us mentality, it would be even more pathetic if that were the case by the way.It’s just a website, time to take a chill pill methinks.

MarcoNJ's avatar

@Captain_Fantasy I agree whole-heartedly. I haven’t been on the site a week yet and I’ve already noticed a ‘class’ divide. It’s like some veteran Fluthers seem to be snobs.

Get off your almighty High Horse peoples. This is not “Are you smarter than everybody else?”

Trillian's avatar

Does anybody have her email or facebook contact? I won’t ask for it directly as that would of course be an invasion, but if anyone has it pleasse contace her and ask her for permission to give it to me, or let me know in a PM please. I’ll give you my email or facebook to give to her. I do not want to lose contact with her,

lilikoi's avatar

I have been feeling the stupidity, but I wasn’t going to say anything. I haven’t been spending much time on Fluther lately – there are very few questions that I really feel compelled to answer. I’d say 99% of the questions being asked right now do not require any expertise to answer, just a 1.5 second Google search or an opinion.

I am not of the opinion that “new users are stupid”. I am just disappointed by the narrow scope of questions that are being asked. There are too many hypotheticals, teenage relationship drama questions, and simple I-can-find-the-answer-with-a-1-second-Google-search type questions for me.

I think and hope Fluther’s mission somewhat differs from what it has become. It will be interesting to see what they do about it.

Vunessuh's avatar

I must admit that the self-important, pretentious bullshit is getting old around here. Sorry us newbies couldn’t be the pseudo-intellectual, self-ascribed philosophers who over analyze everything.
The hierarchy of some regulars here, tend to get a little full of their Fluther status. They’re just points for Christ’s sake, but let me get this straight:
10k = important.
5k= half-important.
Anything below that = peasants.
Gotcha. I have a few thousands points to go before I’m considered important. Oh joy, I can hardly wait. 0.o
My greatest irritation is the “Fluther isn’t as good as it used to be” mentality. Well, pardon me for shitting on your parade, but when a site goes uphill or downhill, the entire community is responsible, not just a particular group of people. It makes me sad to see a newbie shunned or thought of as less just because they only have a few hundred points or happened to just join a few days ago. How can we blame the site’s faults on just them? That is what causes a site to go downhill. – The unnecessary, ridiculous division. Even @MarcoNJ notices the ‘class divide’ and he just got here. :/
Newbies should be embraced as new additions to a growing community rather than ignored or made fun of because they aren’t ‘good enough yet’. The points that we have sitting beside our names don’t mean a damn thing. Period.
And a few members around here really need to get off their high-horse and understand that.

As far as Just_Justine goes, I’m sad that it made her so upset that she chose to leave the site. I really like her.
At the same time, I’m disappointed that she left without warning because I thought we were good enough friends for her to have the decency to let me know, and it seems a few others here feel the same. It’s pretty awful when someone is driven away from a website, but I wonder if she took it all too seriously. She had plenty of other options. She should have taken a step back and taken a break from the website for a few days and see how she felt when she returned. She left behind some friends who had no idea she was feeling this way, so that bothers.

dpworkin's avatar

I will let the “aggressive stupidity” question stand as asked rather than try to defend it, but I can state unequivocally that there is plenty of nonsense, misstatement and arrant bullshit on this thread, just as there is everywhere else, and there is no correlation between amount of lurve accumulated or length of time spent as a member of Fluther and unadorned idiocy.

I always welcome newbies. It is, in fact, a part of the record: review what I said and how I behaved when you were all complaining about the AB influx. I couldn’t care less how much lurve someone has. No one knows as much as someone who has a lot what a poor metric it is. I don’t think it measures anything important, and I don’t think any people who think carefully weigh it when they are making a decision about the value of a particular post.

I am a member of no “in” group, or of any other class of Flutherite who is treated any differently than anyone else, except that because of my reputation my posts may be scrutinized more by the mods than those of most people, and I am probably more frequently warned.

I have no intention of continuing to defend myself in this thread; I really don’t think I have done or said anything that needs to be defended, but it would have been the gorilla in the room if I hadn’t said anything at all, so I have said this much, but not more. I will not be responding further in this thread, or anywhere else to this controversy, except by PM.

kevbo's avatar

OMGYAWN.

liminal's avatar

To the original question, I would hope that people wouldn’t allow themselves to be ranked let alone give groups of people power to do so.

I would like people to stick around and spread the vibe they want propagated on fluther. If someone finds a pervasive attitude distasteful then start discussions that open up different doors.

edit: I didn’t even realize that is why Justine left let alone know anybody else who did so.

lilikoi's avatar

I did not notice the “class divide”... I basically ignore everyone else’s “lurve” except my own, because I want the damn awards! I’m not interested in ranking people or generalizing newcomers into groups or blah blah blah. For me, it is only about the dissemination of useful information. And frankly, I don’t care if you rank me. Go ahead.

filmfann's avatar

@Vunessuh says:
10k = important.
5k= half-important.
Anything below that = peasants

I certainly don’t feel this way, and I know a great number of people with lots of lurve and time on this site that would disagree with it.
I always try to make newbies feel welcome, and I find many of them well read, and quite good posters.
There are some people on this site that are far too full of themselves, and I would not limit that to just those with lots of lurve. The AB’ers who came here, and stayed, have brought good things to this site. I have only been here a year, and I don’t know what it may have been like in the old days, but I still enjoy my time here, and I truly am sorry anyone felt so strongly about a problem with attitudes or perceptions that they canceled their account.
If anyone here thinks that I am too hostile or intellectual, please tell me.
Or just pull my finger.

phillis's avatar

It’s the references to “the old fluther”, which was that way until ABers came along. There have been plenty of hideous comments made, none of which were removed when slung at me. They’re still there. I didn’t whine to anybody about. Really, who is there to whine to? I can handle myself just fine, as you now know. But when people close their accounts here citing common complaints that are also found on this thread, I don’t care who you are, it’s important. Unless you are one of those with the attitude..

@dpworkin Don’t defend your question. There’s nothing wrong with it, and if we’re smart, we’ll use it as a platform for positive.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

I’m glad the mods are aware of our situation here. As I’ve said in other threads, this place has been overrun with sex questions, teeny-bopper questions of ‘does he like me’, ‘should I call him’ crap. I’m not blaming any group of people. It’s just the swing that this site is taking anymore. So many of the good old members have left. And I’ve cut back simply because there’s nothing that interests me anymore. But I do know this…...I’ve met a lot of great people on here.

Jude's avatar

“Why can’t we all just get along?”

fireside's avatar

I don’t really understand why people get so caught up in worrying about what someone else might think. It is very evident just by browsing questions here on Fluther that there are a huge variety of opinions on any particular subject.

So what if some people feel that your thoughts are of less importance than theirs?
That is just how life works – lurve or no lurve.

dpworkin’s question about the signal to noise ratio is not a new complaint and yet people that have left over similar concerns make their way back once they cool off.

For me, it does seem to be a lot of questions that don’t interest me as much as they used to, but maybe that is because I have moved into a different place in my life. I got married to a beautiful woman and am busy making sure our family is secure and able to do things like go on vacation and move into a new house.

So, just understand that when someone complains about something, it is often less of a reflection on you than it is on themselves. I guarantee that almost nobody is taking into account a user’s lurve before complaining about something that user did to annoy them.

phillis's avatar

@fireside Because people don’t like being marginalized, frozen out, ostracized, snide comments thrown at them, and generally holier-than-thou attitudes flung in thier direction, unless it’s for a damn good reason. So far, no good reason has been forthcoming. I imagine that’s because there isn’t one.
I’m glad you have a lovely wife, though. That’s important. My hubby’s pretty cool, too :)

fireside's avatar

@phillis – I guess I haven’t been around enough to understand how people are being marginalized. Just because one person is dismissive of another person’s comments doesn’t make them marginalized. Feeling frozen out is something that happens internally. Nobody here can make a person feel that way if they aren’t willing to feel that way about themselves.

My religious beliefs are certainly not mainstream, yet I am able to have conversations with plenty of people who disagree with them. I don’t feel ostracized in any way when someone is derisive about my opinion.

phillis's avatar

@fireside No, no….I didn’t intend to imply that it isn’t a two-way street. It works both ways, no doubt. But when you have the same complaints, over and over again, and people are leaving over said complaints, it’s time to look at what’s going on. Personally, I hope nobody bet against me, because they lost their asses. But I see very clearly what has been happening. I was easily disregarded because I was merely one person (at the time), and nobody wanted to hear it. Maybe they will now.

If you’ve ever had a look at the opening statements on my bio page, that gives you an idea that this is NOT a new problem, nor is it “just in somebody’s mind”. It can’t be someone’s imagination when this many people are all saying the same thing. If there sin’t going to be a significant decrease in attitude, the best thing in the world would be to just come on out and say so, and stop slinking around.

wundayatta's avatar

The problem with throwing out general accusations without naming names is that a lot more people think you are talking about them. They then assume they are not liked because of this blanket accusation. That makes them feel unwelcome. It makes them feel like there are two categories of people at fluther. It creates an unfriendly atmosphere.

I’m not going to tell anyone not to say anything. I won’t tell you not to talk about the secret fluther cabal that is working towards world domination, and will bring a select few, politically correct jellies with them. I’m not going to tell anyone not to talk about the fluther bordello that is secretly enslaving new female jellies and locking them to bedposts so that the 20K plus male jellies can spout bad poetry at them. I’m not going to tell you not to talk about the hidden clique system that passes out secret messages via the award system that only old jellies know how to understand.

I won’t tell you not to say any of that because I think you should be free to make an ass of yourself if you want, or to worry about fluther culture and be misguided about what is going on.

All I ask are two things that are kind of the same thing. First, I ask that people try to be aware of the sensitivities of others, and when making mass accusations, to be transparent about what you are talking about. Use examples. Name names.

Second, I ask that the mods and the bendrews of this place make it more transparent what they are working on and what their concerns are. Mods see “problems,” and presumably, they have more data, but I am not sure they are the best people to interpret that data or to develop policy changes based on their interpretations. We should be told what issues concern them and why. It should be done in a way that few people are wondering if they are the person being discussed.

In the absence of transparency, no one knows who is talking about what behind closed doors. They don’t know who will be banned next. An atmosphere of fear can develop, as everyone wonder who will be caught next in the witch hunt and what they have to do to avoid the pogrom.

That’s what I ask. I don’t expect anyone in management will take what I say into consideration. In that, I am as lowly as the jelly who signed up ten seconds ago. No one has ever asked my opinion about any of these issues and I am in the dark just as much as anyone else. I, too, have to wonder if @dpworkin puts my questions in the aggressive stupidity category.

Do we want fluther turned into a soviet style, backstabbing society? I hope not. However, to me, it looks like that’s where we’re headed.

I’m sure everyone in power will think I’m overreacting and I don’t know shit, so there’s no point in paying attention to me. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve been told I’m overreacting here, I’d have…... well, maybe twenty dollars. I’ll probably earn a few more with this comment.

But it really, really concerns me when people do not take into account the feelings of everyone in the community, and ignore the possibility that anyone may come here “stupid” and grow and become very important jellies (VIJ?) over time. When we complain about the quality of questions, we are writing off all of these potential contributors. Most teens do end up being twenty and thirty-somethings after a while.

It really concerns me when there is any ranking going on, even covert ranking. Especially covert ranking. Because that can lead to a perception of much more ranking going on than there is.

We should all be for each other, the smartest and stupidest of us, because these things change, and if we push someone out, we may be pushing out the next Sojourner Truth or Barack Obama, who surely both had moments of idiocy in their youths. Anything where we compare one person or one group to another is going to make someone feel bad, and cause us loss.

Please, be aware of this, and think twice before making blanket statements about various classes of jellies (new vs veteran, young vs old, who has the best answer, who has the best question)—remember the people who are left out will probably feel bad. That does not create an atmosphere conducive to openness.

Chongalicious's avatar

I joined just last year and got an incredibly warm welcome from many users…nowadays, I don’t see as much of that going on…there seem to be way more underhanded insults going on around here or outright disrespect for someone’s lack of lurve, a few spelling errors, being younger or the tiniest knit-picky things!
...Just because you have been around longer and gained more lurve gives you no more right to be on this site than I have. To those who continue to give equal respect to newbies and veterans, thank you. Everyone else, please for the love of whoever you do or don’t worship, SHUT UP! <—Pretty please :)
I understand completely if someone thinks this site “isn’t as good as it used to be” but instead of complaining and raising hell about it, why don’t we DO something about it! Simple solution, really. No need to go and rant on and on about this whole rediculous thing!

DeanV's avatar

Well, I’m going to catch a lot of flak for this, but I tend to think this whole argument is just a bit silly.

First off, there’s the question of newbies. Personally, I feel that if you’ve been here a month, you are no longer a newbie. Lurve means nothing in deciding that. I’ve been here more than a year, and somebody calling themselves a “newbie”, has a good thousand more points that me. Lurve doesn’t mean anything in said “newbie” status.
Perhaps we should make it that when someone starts complaining about class structure, newbie persecution, or whatever else is going on, they are no longer a newbie.
But seriously, saying that anybody below 5K is a “peasant”, that’s just ridiculous and you know it.

Also, just throwing in my two cents here, but this site can be what you make of it. Personally, I think of it as a place to help others, to answer their questions, and maybe make the occasional friend. But that is it. If someone makes some inflammatory remark, personally attacks me, big deal. The internet is full of that type of thing, it’s an everyday occurrence; and I’ll just move on. Leaving the site won’t fix it, and it probably won’t make you feel much better. I’m almost certian the user in question “Just_Justine” will come back at some time, maybe in some different form, but she’ll be back. There’s something about this place that does that to people. No matter how huffy they are when they go, most reappear in some form.

And I am kind of curious to see examples of this activity leading people under 5K to feel like “peasants”. Not trying to attack you by saying you don’t have evidence of it, I’m just curious.

I think @fireside hit the nail on the head here and said that “Nobody here can make a person feel that way if they aren’t willing to feel that way about themselves.” Exactly. It’s one thing to respond to an inflammatory remark, and then it’s another to take the remark personally.

fireside's avatar

@phillis – I understand that it is not a new problem. It happens every time a question and answer site loses a lot of users en masse and they join Fluther.

Before, AB was the wisd.m migration which certainly got ugly, before that was another, etc. wundayatta was one an Askville-ian and came to Fluther with a bunch of other disgruntled users.

Each time people complain about the growth of questions that don’t apply to their interests or aren’t asked in a way that someone thought it should have been asked.

I didn’t come from anywhere previously and still got blasted on my first question that I asked, but it just made me more thoughtful about the questions I chose to ask.

Don’t take it personally is the best advice I can give to someone. This online community isn’t the only place this happens and it can be much worse in real life.

I hope you grow to enjoy Fluther the same way many people who have migrated here have come to feel.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I don’t think anyone should take seriously one or a couple of ‘older users’ (what does that mean anyway) complaining about how ‘stupid it’s been lately’ because there will always be someone saying that and yet someone else will consider that person new – so I am sorry that Just Justine took dpworkin’s snippy words to heart but I don’t think, @wundayatta that that q was the only reason, might have been the last straw – she has expressed to me some concerns about people not welcoming new members (some of her previous questions were pooped all over by galileogirl who is now, thankfully, gone/ejected/whatever). @Vunessuh I think people from answerbag don’t need to feel some kind of complex – nobody knows who came from there and nobody remembers…many of us came from wis.dm a year ago and it was just like that for a while too but it all changes, all passes..it’s not about lurve, it’s about adapting to the standards – you either do (grudgingly or not) or you leave.

dpworkin's avatar

I do get snippy. I am, however, an equal opportunity snipper. I like Just_Justine, and I hope she returns.

wundayatta's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I hope you realize I was using Just_Justine as an example in order to raise a more substantive discussion about feelings of jellies—sensitivities, and what not. I also wanted to raise issues about what makes a caring community. I’m sure that you are right there is more to it than that for JJ. She’s been having a hard time. But I think that, as a community, we should reach out to her. If she’s in pain, I would hope we could find ways to help her.

wundayatta's avatar

@dpworkin Snippy? I think you’ve been hanging out at that circumcision question far too long! ;-)

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@wundayatta I understand. However, it stands that at one point we’re all newbies and some of the newbies can feel as if they’re not welcome BUT it is not personal, it’s just about different styles, them coming from other websites, etc. As for reaching to JJ, I have no idea how to get to her.

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

“Aggressive stupidity” sounded personal.
That would’ve been modded coming from a sub-5k user.

Vunessuh's avatar

@dverhey I used the term peasant as an example of how some newbies feel they are being treated. I know it’s ridiculous. I’m not the only one who feels this way, I just decided to use the example in my answer.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I never said anything about AB in my response, but okay…

DeanV's avatar

@Vunessuh Fair enough. As long as you know it’s not how they all feel.

I just don’t really like it when people throw around stuff like that like it’s a fact. Thanks for clarifying.

phillis's avatar

—I love the idea of naming names, but unfortunately that just isn’t possible. I don’t keep a mental list, but I could scrawl some names on a piece of paper if I thought it would do any good (of course, it wouldn’t be a complete list).

Also, with names, that can only be done in private, meaning that there can be as little attention paid to it as humanly possible while still responding. I have two such emails in my PMs right now – from moderators. This does not instill confidence.

I also have a mod comment that says that the powers that be have a pointed interest in how this website appears to outsiders. Really? Is that why the hideous mod insults are still there? So much for that excuse.

My request is thus: Delete the damn sniping comments, regardless of who said them. That would also mean that a mod will have thier comments deleted, too. You’ll just have to grow a pair if you plan on doing the right thing. I have no intention of patting anyone on the back for showing favoritism, so don’t expect it.

dpworkin's avatar

@Captain_Fantasy I carefully explained the term “aggressive stupidity” as it is a quotation from Goethe with a specific meaning. You may wish to review the thread in question before you make unfounded charges.

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

I thought you were done defending your statement. Lighten up yo.

I love this question.
Finally! Some honesty!

Vunessuh's avatar

@dverhey That’s why I said things like “A few users” and some users” because I didn’t want to make any generalizations.
There are plenty of people who do feel that way. I have numerous PM’s of users all saying the same thing. To actually call a user a peasant is stupid – I just mean that’s how some of them feel like they are being treated.

dpworkin's avatar

@Captain_Fantasy I’m human. You got personal, I felt the need to defend myself.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Vunessuh This is true, I am sorry – it was @filmfann who mentioned it.

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

lol! Assume whatever you like.

DeanV's avatar

@Vunessuh I caught that while reading over your answer again. Oops. But still, I think my point stands, as does yours. I still think even feeling like you’re considered a “peasant” on an internet site can be a bit much, but I digress.

Vunessuh's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir no worries.

@dverhey We both make decent points and observations. Using the word ‘peasant’ to describe how you feel on the internet is indeed chuckle worthy, but I think some people have some valid points when they constantly feel shunned and disrespected and grouped, hence feeling like peasants. And yes, it is just the internet, but we are all still human beings and it sounds cheesy, but all of our feelings are really valuable to us and apparently to each other. As much as I think Justine made a snap decision and took this all a little too seriously, I still really feel for her. In the end, it’s all a matter of perspective and almost everyone in this thread has a different perspective.

DeanV's avatar

@Vunessuh I agree, I just think @fireside put it very well when he said that “Nobody here can make a person feel that way if they aren’t willing to feel that way about themselves.”

To me, that has pretty much rung true for the majority of the issues I’ve seen here. Sometimes there’s no turning around from an argument you’ve already gotten yourself into, but I’ve found it pretty easy to just not get into the types of arguments that make you want to leave this site. Maybe that’s just me, however, and I am willing to hear other points of views on that, but I’ve never found anything here to be that bad.

I just think that Just_Justine’s way of acting up is entirely the wrong way. Deleting your account doesn’t get you anywhere in an argument.

phillis's avatar

It was a cumulative effect of snide, underhanded comments that eventually got to her. She has a reason for feeling the way she does. Regardless how thick her skin grows, there’s no excuse for asshole behavior – Period. Due to her sensitivity, she happens to be a lot nicer than those of us who decided to remain. That sensitivity was a gift that many people benefitted from.

KatawaGrey's avatar

Well, @Simone_De_Beauvoir beat me to it. Like she said, we were all newbies at one time. When I asked my very first question, the first answer I got was someone saying they didn’t care enough about the question to answer it. As you can imagine, that deflated me quite a bit. Were it not for a few lovely veteran users love ya @tinyfaery I would have left just based on that. Well, it’s been over a year and a half and guess what? I’m still here! I’ve been insulted, yelled at, modded, more than once argued with, harassed in PM’s, poked, prodded and picked on but I’m still here.

It seems to me that some users have a big ole chip on their shoulders about being here. You want me to name names? Okay, I will. Both @phillis and @Vunessuh seem to me to have this newbie chip. It takes a little while to learn to navigate this place. I can tell you some things about a number of users on this thread because I’ve been here long enough to learn and I’ve engaged in conversations with these people. Some of these conversations have been arguments. Some of those arguments have gotten downright nasty and now I am quite good friends in the fluther sense with that person. Look at @Simone_De_Beauvoir. She and I did not get along when she first joined. We got into arguments and more than a few insults were slung. Well, we worked out our differences and she was the one who started my 10k thread!

Bottom line is you need to learn not just about this site but the people on here as well. I’m still learning about the people. With every new user or new batch of users this place changes and we all have to learn stuff all over. I certainly try not to make underhanded remarks on public threads to people but I maybe I don’t try hard enough. For those users who truly don’t make nasty comments subtle or otherwise about newbies, they’re getting lumped in with the users who do make these kinds of comments. That’s not very fair either but, hey, it’s only not cool if we’re unfair to newbies, right?

dpworkin's avatar

@KatawaGrey You’re the best.

tinyfaery's avatar

@KatawaGrey Aww. It makes me feel good that I am one of the reasons you stayed on fluther.

faye's avatar

I’m still new and I’m sorry questions that can be easily googled are on here. I didn’t come from anywhere- I asked google a question and ended up here. I agree with “aggressive stupidity” I’ve seen, stupidity in my opinion. I’m also older and raised my kids through the ‘teen angst’ and so don’t want to see it, while I remember perfectly well how I felt, too. I don’t know what might have been wrong with MarcoNJ’s question when I see some that make it through!

evandad's avatar

@Venussuh – Cool rant. I remember the same BS at the bag so I think you’re right. It’s part of the crap you deal with if you want to play. I hope your friend comes back after she cools off a bit.

phillis's avatar

[MODS] I have shown incredible decorum and thoughtfuless by publicly stating that it was not a good idea to name names. However, once again, I have not made the first move, and my comments nodding toward decency have been ignored.

Either @KatawaGrey‘s comment are to be removed, or we can have it out right here and now. This time, make it PUBLIC what the rules of engagement are to be so that you can take full credit for allowing a level playing field. No more sneaking around behind the scenes, telling this person one thing, and this person over here another. We can keep it right here on this thread, to go no further.

This is one time my comments will be not be erased while someone else’s is allowed to stand. Please do let everyone know. I am quite tired of having to play by one set of rules while others get the liberty to do as they please.

@katawagray, don’t take it too personally. This isn’t all about you. Yours just happened to be the finger that pushed the button.

filmfann's avatar

We Want Thunderdome!

or

CHICK FIGHT!

KatawaGrey's avatar

@phillis: I knew this would happen which is exactly why I named names. If my comments are not erased, someone will be unhappy because they go against the rules. If my comments are erased, someone will be unhappy because they think the rules are stupid.

Also, I would like to point out that the guidelines do not state that someone’s comments can be removed because they say that someone is bothering them for some reason or other. However, if I was actively insulting you, then my comments would be removed.

I find that the people who complain the most about moderation are the ones who get modded quite a bit. I’m sorry that you do get modded a lot but there are a lot of us who don’t get modded a lot. I saw on your profile that you have dyslexia which makes it very hard to type and spell for you. Instead of taking your anger out on us, perhaps you should PM the creators of fluther to explain your situation. I’m sure you would be given more leniency as far as grammar and spelling go if the mods were made aware of your situation.

phillis's avatar

@KatawaGrey I was afraid of being misunderstood too, but, like you, felt it needed to be said. Plese do know that I was sincere when I said that little of this has to do with you. I rarely get modded because I work conscientiously to obey the rules. It’s the double standards due to favoritism and the snide remarks that has so many pissed off. I’m actually surprised they still care. Maybe they don’t have the same PMs sitting in my inbox.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@phillis: I am sorry that posting on fluther is such an unpleasant experience for you I swear I’m not being sarcastic but if you really are that bothered, why do you stick around? I stick around because I enjoy this place and I have cultivated some relationships that I wish to maintain. So many new users seem as unhappy as you and often take it out on the veterans. I try very hard not to be nasty to new users because I remember being new and I remember how hard it was at first. However, I’m still swept up in the backlash. When someone makes a comment about how those of us who have reached 10k are more important than those who have not, it makes me angry. I never claimed to be better than anyone because my lurve was higher nor have I ever claimed to better than anyone because I have been here for a while. However, people still make sweeping generalizations that include me. That is no more fair than the sweeping generalizations being made about new users.

phillis's avatar

I have several reasons for it. I’m a social critter, first and foremost, which also means that I don’t sit back quietly when people are hurting. Most do not want to come forward, and they have thier reasons for it.

The issue is that we lost a good person today (just so we don’t lose sight of that) because of this behavior, so this question turned into a platform for people to either air thier grievances, or be represented in their grievances.

dpworkin's avatar

@phillis What is “this behavior”? Are you blaming me for Just_Justine having left? If so, I find that distinctly unfair. I ignore @wundayatta‘s insinuations because I don’t take them seriously, but I hope no one else thinks I forced anyone off Fluther.

phillis's avatar

@dpworkin If the shoe doesn’t fit, then simply don’t wear it. I’ve already told you on one thread that you’ve no reason to defend a particular question of yours. I guess you missed it. I’ve not said anything because comments were erased, so I can’t open my mouth. That really WOULD be unfair, no?

I’ve watched your coments for a long time now, so I know of your degrees and so forth. And I’m actually quite proud of what you’ve accomplished since that nasty break up. You’ve done some truly wonderful things. Forgive my surprise when I say that you, of all people, should be able to understand animosity and possessiveness better than almost anybody here.

Vunessuh's avatar

Once again, I would like to point out that I said “A few users” and ”some users”. I did not make a generalization over every user above 10k. My examples were representing the mentality of some of the members. Certainly not everyone. Sorry if I upset you @KatawaGrey. Unfortunately, I think your argument misses the point of the discussion, but that’s okay. Do I have a chip on my shoulder? Nah. I’ve been treated quite nicely here. It’s just the self-importance by particular people that I’ve observed that bothers me and how they use this pretentiousness towards other people, preferably towards new members. Perhaps it’s because new users are more vulnerable. Who knows. I chose to speak up on behalf of those people whether they’ve left the site or not and I stand by what I’ve said. I didn’t, however, mean to make it sound that every member with 56238956239 points is a douche bag. I’m stating my feelings, opinions and perspective on the situation just like you are. That’s all.

Axemusica's avatar

I’m not sure what all this is over, but I can tell you this…

I never migrated over from another other Q & A site. Fluther just happened to be my first choice once I found it on my iPhone. It’s funny that everyone thinks there’s these cliques (which there are, but it doesn’t really bother me) older jellies, n00bs, AB influx, wis.dm migration (which I’m still not entirely sure wtf it even is) and another I heard for the first time askvillian. Well, fact of the matter is this. You all are on fluther now! Be that as it may, I’m sure you still got buddies and what not from your previous home, which does kind of help, but I feel sometimes that I still don’t fully belong. I only stay here because I thoroughly enjoy it at most times.

The strange part of this conversation is the lurve. I’m not real sure how this factors in to Justine’s absence, but I can tell you that, I was here before the AB influx and I noticed that getting my lurve fix was slim pick’ns. I’d like to use some jellies as examples, but it doesn’t really bother me that much and I’d probably get mod’d by doing so. I can give a clue though. In july I will have been here a year, now I don’t mean to point a finger (but I’m sure @filmfann lurves me ;) but someone who’s been here only a month more than I has nearly double the score. Now, also note that there’s 5x the responses than I. Just proves that lurve score has little to do with anything other than how actively a member the person is and even than is slim truth, since I’m quite picky and choosy about the threads I post in.

I have noticed that some questions have been, well, lacking, the mentally fundamental department, but that doesn’t mean the site has lost it’s brakes atop of the steep hill. It just means that new young faces have discovered a place where they can ask questions and hopefully not be judged, or shunned for that. Although, when snide responses and snippiness goes on without the OP’s understanding or familiarity with the responder it can be a bit aggressive and could very well scare them away. Justine, I’ve seen here before and I thought she was doing well. I thought some of her questions were neat and others not so much, but just because some people have some questions that aren’t up to par (with what bar has been raised), doesn’t give the right to bash them.

People grow. I’m sure that some of you here might have seen me around before. Some of you know me since my first question. Which might be highly unlikely, because it was quite a technical question about guitars and if it wasn’t for @sandystrachan it almost became an orphan. Some of you might have thought I left, but I’m sure the people that are familiar with me have seen, my growth within the past year. I say that every jelly needs a chance to adhere and welcoming helps. I’ve seen @wundayatta grow and even if he likes it or not, I think he finally developed a sense of humor, ;)

Thing is this, it sucks that someone could get upset about anything on the internet, but it happens. I liked seeing Justine & would’ve liked to see her more, but like @fireside said, “Nobody here can make a person feel that way if they aren’t willing to feel that way about themselves.”

I don’t even know if this made much sense, it’s late and I’m tired, but I felt like I need to give my 2 cents.

nebule's avatar

Oh my goodness… all I can say is, that I respect those who have been here a long time and I feel that they deserve that respect.Just as much as I respect newcomers..I tend to think…“wow…welcome to the party…how exciting…all the fun and friendliness you have ahead of you…” I don’t know about any of this hostility that people are being accused of.

When I arrived I respected the current members and luckily I was welcomed made to feel at home here. Relationships are always a two way street though. I don’t think I would have been accepted if I’d have muscled in with insults and criticisms.

But what do I know?.. I’m only on 9209 ;-) lol

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@KatawaGrey we didn’t get along at first? why don’t I remember this and how could this have happened?
So I was randomly thinking last night and I remembered one of the last things that made Just Justine upset…it was people like you @dpworkin and you @phillis and you @Vunessuh giving a really hard time to this user on this question…she wrote a PM to me after that q thanking me for remaining calm and not being hostile to a new user…so then I look back at this q and the loudest people on this thread (the complaining peasants) were the most cruel on that one and were claiming to do it ‘for the sake of the Fluther community’ that they now are criticizing (especially going after the moderators, which is just bad form). And I thought “How Ironic!!!” and fell asleep.

wundayatta's avatar

This argument, put forth by @KatawaGrey and a couple of others on this thread, that because they had to walk through a cesspool to get out of being a newbie, everyone else should, too, is simply ridiculous. That kind of thinking is what perpetuates hazing rituals at fraternities and in the army and other kinds of organizations where the no longer newbies can take it out on the newbies.

What’s the point? There are better ways of teaching people than breaking their fingers when they screw up. I should think you would want to save more recent folks from the troubles you had.

Hazing is designed to create cohesiveness amongst the new group of people. Of course, it also create groups with a separate group identity—in other words: cliques.

I believe that what we want at fluther is a common sense of purpose, not conflict amongst groups of people. But what do I know?

@Axemusica Ask around. Or better yet, read a number of my older comments. You’ll find that I had a sense of humor even before you showed up. Seriously!

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@wundayatta I don’t think this ‘hazing’ experience is something that happens to a majority.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@wundayatta: Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said that I thought that anyone should go through some kind of hazing just to get to be a veteran user just because I did. My point was more that I was able to stick it out long enough to discover what this place was actually about and it was worth it.

MarcoNJ's avatar

It’s turning into UFC in here.

Vunessuh's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Your example is ridiculous. You think that @dpworkin and @phillis and myself made any of those comments because the user is new? Are you kidding? How absurd. I’m sure I can go through your history and find you angry with someone who just so happened to be new as well. I can pull that trick out of my ass, Simone. Bringing that thread into this discussion is completely irrelevant because there are entirely different reasons for why all of us chose to say something in the other thread. Not because he was new.
Your manipulative ”I’m perfect and you’re not” crap isn’t going to work and neither is trying to diminish a person’s character or motives by posting irrelevant links. We spoke in PM’s about that situation. How childish of you and oh yeah, what’s the word you used? Oh, how cruel of you to use that against any of us when you know the real reasons why we said anything in that thread.
As far as the mods go, we took that conversation back to PM’s as well and shortly after, all was resolved. It’s not bad form to challenge a mod when you feel something is wrong. All three of us did and all three of us said something. That’s what happened. It wasn’t ’gang up on a new user day’. We had other reasons that we all felt were valid, so get your facts straight and don’t start pointing fingers while trying to use irrelevant squabble to back up your case.

Jude's avatar

This bickering is getting old and I wish that it would stop.

Vunessuh's avatar

You’re right. It is getting old.
<——- Stopped following.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir If you’d like to have this conversation further, PM me. If you’d like to continue diminishing my character on this thread with nonsense, then go right ahead. You have the freedom because I won’t even be here to see it or defend myself so you can say anything you want. Good for you.

breedmitch's avatar

To no one in particular: I was here before ya’, and I’ll be here long after you’re gone.~

tinyfaery's avatar

Do ya’ll know that there are wars and famine occurring this very second, somewhere in the world? Just checkin’.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@tinyfaery dude, I am SO on that too, you know me…I am awesome at multi tasking

Jude's avatar

Kids, it’s the internet. Let it go.

DeanV's avatar

@jjmah The internet is serious business. ~

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

where’d @bob go? I thought he was going to post that xkcd cartoon about how people are wrong on the internet and a person exhausted at the keyboard – he’s been posting that since wis.dm for me so that I move on

bob_'s avatar

Well, damn, things got quite heated in here.

Some people take things too seriously. They should lighten up.

I was on this site before, then got tired of some things and decided to leave. I came back, and I think it’s much better. Sure, some of the questions are downright dumb, but that’s always been the case. It’s also always been cliquish, as most sites are (and, funnily enough, the people most easily identified as being part of a clique are the first to mock the motion).

So, in summary, some new users ask dumb questions, some new users are great additions to the community. Some old users are very nice and welcoming, others are a pain in the ass. Just like in real life.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Here’s the cartoon.

phillis's avatar

Wow. This is like manna from heaven! This a perfect example of exactly what has people so pissed off! Thank you so very much!

Mods fail to catch a troll for weeks, ignore every single flag from the beginning of time I started here (there aren’t very many, so it isn’t like my flags suck up their time), won’t communicate as to why all flags were ignored, take away our comments to alert the community of a troll so that people continue to get suckered into this person’s ever-escalating issues, and we’re somehow responsible of all the woes. That’s actually pretty funny!

While you’re on a roll, Simone, why not go ahead and bring up the Mod Insults on that thread while you’re at it? Surely, the same rules apply to everyone, especially a moderator…..right?

Talk about how important it is to you guys how fluther looks to outsiders, then have everybody look at the Mod Behavior on that thread. Tell me, Simone, is it normal practice around here for a moderator to display the very things he slings insults about while publicly confronting members, or are you just not clear on the rules? Or is it that your sense of fairness just running a severe deficit? Let me ask another question.

Is it normal practice on fluther to insult a group of people who are unable to address hideous allegations against them because they aren’t here to defend themselves?

How about a Mod who name-calls members publicly?

I thought that was a particularly nice touch, being as how everyone is so concerned with how fluther looks to outsiders. At least, that’s what I was told when a mod PM’d me privately about my behavior.

Let me make something very clear. I don’t respect those who don’t give it. I don’t give a fuck what they’re standing in any community is. However, basic courtesy is welcomed, appreciated, and returned. I made one mistake and made a public apology for it. That’s all I owe anybody.

It looks an awful lot like we have TWO sets of standards here. One for the cool kids, and one for the people who aren’t in the cliques. Is that about right?

DOUBLE STANDARDS, BABY!

tinyfaery's avatar

Get over it or leave.

Bored now.

phillis's avatar

@jjmah You are one of the people here who actually encourages others to be nasty when they attack others. I lurve you, MacBean! Here, have some points for being an ass! Yer my hero because you publicly attacked someone twice in 24 hours who did nothing to you! You want to know why people can’t just get along? Take a look in the mirror.

@tinyfaery I can say the same thing to you. If you don’t like what youre reading – YOU leave. I couldn’t care less about catering to your comfort level. Consider it your favor returned to you.

tinyfaery's avatar

Pathetic.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@tinyfaery: YES. A thousand times YES.

phillis's avatar

I think it would look a lot better to newbies if you guys stop slinking around and just come on out and say that you couldn’t care LESS how people feel when you don’t like them. Just be honest, already! What’s so damn hard about that?

@KatawaGrey Don’t pretend to be caring and diplomatic in one thread, then show a completely different face on another. I was actually fooled last night. Huh! Go figure.

Is this the best you guys can come up with when someone puts solid proof publicly before the community of bad behavior? You guys want to name names, and it’s coming back to bite you in the ass.
If you can disprove it, DO IT.

Jude's avatar

Not worth my time anymore. Keep on bitchin’, @phillis.

I have nothing more to say. It’s the fucking internet. And, this whole thing is ridiculous.

phillis's avatar

That’s exactly what I expected. Next time, size up a person before you fuck with them.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@phillis: Actually, my response to @tinyfaery was because she made a Buffy reference. Sorry if you took the support the wrong way; it actually had nothing to do with this thread.

phillis's avatar

@KatawaGrey Yes, it’s what vampire Willow said when she wanted to play with the Angel puppy. I have the series on DVD. I paid good money to get the scripts, too. There are no Buffy scripts that include the words “Yes. A thousand times Yes.” But damn, you were so close! Nice try.

Jude's avatar

@phillis Yes, I gave lurve to Bean (in a previous thread) because of what Bean said. It was rational and made perfect sense me. I was in agreement. I’m not taking sides here. It’s not us versus them bullshit for me, so, don’t put me in that category, thanks.

ucme's avatar

Can’t see this one lasting much longer,more in hope than belief.Moving swiftly on.

phillis's avatar

@jjmah Mine isn’t the only complaint of your encouraging others and offering up spiteful, snide comments.

“Can’t see this one lasting much longer” is one of your comments directed at a newbie. You’ve been quite active in creating a hostile environment. Would you like me to link that thread? Or would you prefer to admit that you have seriously bad judgement? It’s your choice.

You opened your mouth here on this thread after causing a great deal of pain to people you don’t like. Did you really think it would last forever? You don’t use people to make yourself feel good without them getting angry about it. Somebody like me will come along who is happy to bring it to light for you until you have nothing left to hide behind.
Keep talking.

Jude's avatar

(yawn)

This is not high school. It used to be fun here.

Later.

phillis's avatar

Precisely. It was fun. Then the newbies came. Sucks to be you. Inevitably, someone is going to get tired of your shit, and that’s exactly what has happened. People aren’t doormats for you to use to feel good about yourself. Have a nice day.

Jude's avatar

I’ll do like the rest, leave it be and let you flap your gums. Is anyone listening anymore?

I see that you like getting the last word.

Ciao.

phillis's avatar

LIke I said…..if you can disprove it, DO IT.

Response moderated
Response moderated
phillis's avatar

Don’t ever make the mistake again of thinking that you can treat me like shit simply because you do not like me. You should have read my bio. There is a warning posted there for people who do that.

Axemusica's avatar

..um, is this a bad time? I can come back later..

@wundayatta I know you have a sense of humor, I was just making a callback to some thread in the past where you said you didn’t find humor in most things or something and I tried crack’n jokes to amuse you. No worries, my friend. You were one of the first people I started following, back when you were the awesome big D with that sweet avatar, hehe.

wundayatta's avatar

@Axemusica Damn internet! If you had seen me say that last line with my tongue in my cheek, you would not have felt a need to defend your crack. I thought it was funny. Then again, I thought my response was funny, too.

As to the rest of this…. well, I’m glad I know now who people were talking about. It helps put this all in perspective. I don’t have to worry that more and more people will be showing up with hurt feelings because they think they are being talked about.

As to the squabble between a few of you—I have to wonder why it became so vitriolic. I know all of you, and have found you all to be rather nice people. I don’t understand how things could escalate so much. I don’t even understand the underlying issue. I understand the meta-issue (the process of being integrated into a society and how it should happen), but not the proximal cause.

@KatawaGreyI never said that I thought that anyone should go through some kind of hazing just to get to be a veteran user just because I did. My point was more that I was able to stick it out long enough to discover what this place was actually about and it was worth it.

But don’t you see, that’s exactly what you are saying? You are arguing that because you had to “stick it out” that it is reasonable to expect others to do the same. That is saying that this kind of hazing is acceptable—because it was worth it to you. Did you enjoy having to “stick it out?” Why don’t we focus on trying to fix things so people don’t have to “stick it out” instead of saying that people should just have to put up with it, and using the fact that you put up with it as justification.

Response moderated
dpworkin's avatar

@wundayatta Are you aware that your OP in this thread was worded in such a way that it was bound to hurt my feelings and put me on the defensive? I wonder why you would have made it so personal and accusatory, only to continue behaving toward me in a friendly manner as if you hadn’t hurt and upset me.

escapedone7's avatar

I will miss Just_justine as well. She was awesome. I can’t be sure what caused her to delete her account though. I have no evidence it was over any one particular thread. I don’t believe a person who was having an overall great time here would leave for only one thread. Maybe it’s more of a trend from reading a lot of general negativity on a lot of different threads over a period of time. Without talking to her about it first hand, it is hard to speculate. I wish she had said goodbye. I will miss her. The thing is, we don’t want to lose any more friends. So instead of being more negative, what can we do to create a more positive supportive atmosphere?

As a side note if I ever leave it isn’t because I don’t love people here and it is nobody’s fault. I might just go run off to that cabin in the woods I keep fantasizing about.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis You just need to stop – you have said enough, I believe and given what I know about some of your ‘conditions’ I really think it’s coming through now

phillis's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir My conditions are in check. You opened this can of worms, so let’s see this through to the end. It is conspicuous that you have yet to address my questions.

Is it okay for ANY member on this board to dismiss fluther’s rules? YES or NO.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis this is like when I argue with jehova’s witnesses…they give you questions you can’t answer not because they’re right but because they’re illogical
No, it’s not okay for any member on this board to dismiss fluther’s rules, imo – whether or not the mods have done this is up to you to decide – however the mods are above you, the end..please don’t let this be one of those ‘rebel against the authority’ kicks.

phillis's avatar

It is entirely justified to expect one set of rules for everyone. Thank you for respecting me enough to answer my question. Your answer was no. Here’s my next question.

Is it okay for a person to publicly post nasty insults against a group of people who cannot be here to defend themselves?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis It’s not like we’re required to have the people we ‘insult’ be here when we ‘insult’ them – that’s how fluther is…do you always wait around until someone is around before insults – we don’t spend days here on fluther (okay people other than me don’t).

DeanV's avatar

@phillis You seem to have gotten away with it.

phillis's avatar

Question withdrawn. Next question.

Is it against the rules of fluther to name call? YES or NO?

rebbel's avatar

“Is it against the rules of fluther to name call? YES or NO?”

@phillis @dverhey @Simone_De_Beauvoir @escapedone7 @dpworkin @breedmitch @wundayatta @Axemusica @jjmah @ucme
Errrr, yes it obviously is.

phillis's avatar

@dverhey If you have another such incident aside from the one I issued a public apology for, let’s hear it.

escapedone7's avatar

@rebbel huh? I’m the dumb one. It obviously is what? I’m confused.

DeanV's avatar

@rebbel I appear to have missed the offending clip of mine there.

@phillis Didn’t see the apology. Redacted.

That being said, I still think this entire thread is silly.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis whines I haven’t read them in sooooo long, but I bet you have an answer. Though I think the rules don’t apply to mods in the same way and the way you deal with them is through a different process – that’s understood.

DeanV's avatar

Guys, should we move all of this over to this thread? It seems pretty fitting.

escapedone7's avatar

I’m still confused.

phillis's avatar

@dverhey Redaction accepted.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Rules are rules. If people are at liberty to take potshots at me without repercussion, I deserve to hear it publicly. Is your answer YES or NO?

rebbel's avatar

@escapedone7 @dverhey
I was referring to @phillis’ question about namecalling.
It was intended to be funny, but i guess it was only funny in my head.

DeanV's avatar

@rebbel Aha, I think it get it. I thought you knew that we don’t like it when people try and be funny, though.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis I’ve already explained to you that this is all about how you perceive things – you can’t treat a mod like any other user and they have a right to tell you things to reign in your words. Again, your question’s answer is neither. You were the first to address the mods on this q, were you not? can’t believe I had to scroll back up and read this again You gave them an ultimatum – your response was flame-bait and they shouldn’t have ever even responded to it. Wait, they didn’t respond – what are you talking about then? What insults did the mods throw at you?

phillis's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I see that you are struggling to come up with an answer to this very simple question.

Is it against the rules of fluther to name call? YES or NO?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis I love how the person that said she’s not following this is giving you GAs no matter what you say
I am not struggling – I’ve edited my response above, please answer me this: why did you give the mods an ultimatum in an aggressive, immature way and expect them to respond to you in ANY way?

phillis's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir “Self appointed troll hunters”

None of us appointed ourselves anything. None of us ever called the author a troll.

Please show me any ultimatums I have presented to Mods. Feel free to link.

escapedone7's avatar

ha ha ha! I finally get the joke. Rebel called us names, by saying our names. uuh Rebel had to help me get it. I’m not exactly quick on the uptake. I know none of you will believe this, but I can be a dingbat.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis “Either @KatawaGrey‘s comment are to be removed, or we can have it out right here and now. This time, make it PUBLIC what the rules of engagement are to be so that you can take full credit for allowing a level playing field. No more sneaking around behind the scenes, telling this person one thing, and this person over here another. We can keep it right here on this thread, to go no further.”

dpworkin's avatar

I’m pretty sure I called that guy a troll. @Simone_De_Beauvoir and I disagreed harshly over the issue. After a discussion in PMs with a mod, I have changed my mind, and decided I handled that whole thing very badly, and from now on if I have a problem with a thread I will simply flag it and ignore it.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@dpworkin @phillis yeah I think PMs with mods is the way to go, rather than screaming at them in a thread.

escapedone7's avatar

@dpworkin Did you get the lecture about disagreeing without being disagreeable and flag it and forget it?

Ha ha. I have been put into the bad kids corner too. I have a pointy hat for a momento.

dpworkin's avatar

yeah, well I needed a time out, and I got one.

DeanV's avatar

@dpworkin So the mods made a good decision? Gasp.

phillis's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir You left out a word that changes the entire intent you claim exists. That word was “Please”.

You can find it in this sentence: “Please do let everyone know. I am quite tired of having to play by one set of rules while others get the liberty to do as they please.”

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis No I read it (you know intent is so hard to figure out sometimes but when a please is flanked by other aggressive words, you just can’t take it seriously) – this was after the ultimatum. I know that mods made a good decision in not going to that level.

escapedone7's avatar

@dverhey Yes. The mods do mod! When you are just a little bad the space aliens come and remove your comment. Then the mods will post a warning saying something like “flame off” or “stay on topic” or something like that. When you keep being bad you get a PM and that’s when you are really in big trouble. A dominatrix in black leather stiletto boots and a thong spanks you. Then you get put in the corner with a pointy hat and then told you are about to be banned. Wait, I think I got this mixed up with the “What are your fantasies” thread. I imagine someone is strapping on her leather boots right now. I’m getting out of here.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@escapedone7 what do I have to do to get a dominatrix in a thong Augustlan in my house?

phillis's avatar

The word “please” is clearly there. How you interpret it is not my problem. There is no ultimatum. Ultimatums are not initiated by the word “please”. However, the suggestion itself is entirely reasonable. It ensures a level playing field for all participants. Unless someone has plans of not playing fairly, the request is easy to fulfill.

Additionally, this comment from a mod that says (Quote): ”@phillis And you (the COATS) get to decide what is “right”? Sounds like a lynch mob to me.”

This is FLAMING. You do not appreciate the people you love being spoken to in this way, right? You do not appreciate being spoken to in this way and neither do I. If you want respect, GIVE IT.

I made my apology, and did it publicly. I didn’t have to do either one of those things. Shall I hold my breath for mine?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis isn’t the COAT comment on some other q? it has nothing to do with this one!
And this is the last time I will explain it to you again (because this is beyond ridiculous) saying “Either @KatawaGrey‘s comment are to be removed, or we can have it out right here and now.” is an ultimatum and your passive aggressive please showed up MUCH MUCH later and meant nothing – and if it isn’t about my interpretation, then why question me with all your questions?

phillis's avatar

Because you decided to name names. That quote is from the exact thread you linked everyone to on this thread. I simply took the same liberties as you.

faye's avatar

What does COATS even mean? Shouldn’t you two @Simone_De_Beauvoir and @phillis be pm’ing each other? It seems to me you are off topic. I’ve been modded for this.

phillis's avatar

@faye This has everything to do with why Just_Justine left. It is the favoritism and snide remarks, like the one I just posted, that she endured throughout her tenure here.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis Weird but you wrote your comment a full day before I wrote mine (not the coat one, the ultimatum one) and that’s the one we’re still discussing.
@faye the whole damn thing is off topic – everyone’s gone from this q, I believe the mods don’t care enough to mod it on this q – it’s all such crap (myself included).

phillis's avatar

It is this very attitude behind snide remarks, coupled with favoritism, that is why Justine left. It is completely relevent.

dpworkin's avatar

Wait. I thought she left because of my “aggressive stupidity” post. Now I am so confused.

faye's avatar

Well, I’m sorry Justine left and she should come back. Seems too many goods are going somewhere else.

phillis's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Linking that thread to this one was off topic. Technically, your comment should be deleted, as would all subsequent posts respnding to it. But I am glad it wasn’t, and I mean that. If I can build something positive out of losing a member because of this, then it was worth it.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis We are still discussing your interaction with the mods BEFORE my comment came along but if you have nothing more to say in terms of that, we can move on to criticizing my actions instead of yours – soon though, I gotta go have sex.

phillis's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Where are your priorities, woman?

I made a public apology to a mod for erroneously removing a post of mine. However, it was put back (presumably by Augustlan) with an explanation given, which I considered very generous. As far as I am concerned, both sides – myself and mods – had this issue resolved and laid to rest. If you still have feelings about it, talk with them or PM me. Every time someone has been courteous to me, their efforts have been returned. Likewise, for assholes. That won’t be changing anytime soon.

Now go have sex.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis Did this just happen because I feel like you totally flipped some kind of a switch and I have no idea what you’re talking about anymore but I am glad you have had your issue resolved.

phillis's avatar

There were some things that went on behind the scenes that you know nothing about. My apologies for not being forthcoming with those details. I do not trust or respect a few mods and some members because of they take liberties at someone else’s expense. I’m not about to offer respect just because someone thinks they are owed it due to their position. However, Courtesy is welcomed, appreciated, and returned, regardless who it is. A level playing field and cessation of snide comments is all anyone has asked. It really isn’t all that hard to do.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@phillis Okay. Good. I wasn’t asking you to share anything. I’m glad it’s all better now.

wundayatta's avatar

@dpworkin Yes, of course it might hurt you. I don’t want to hurt you. But I do want to address the issue of how I think you have hurt fluther. I don’t think you are being malicious, but you do seem to have something of a short fuse. In any case, I think it’s better to name names so people will know who you are talking about.

And, I just disagreed with your way of looking at things. I hope without being disagreeable. I’m not attacking you. Just your ideas.

Besides which, you have a good sense of humor.

dpworkin's avatar

Well, you clearly blamed me and my post for Just_Justine having left, and I have been assured by all who know her that such was not the case, so you may wish to apologize.

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

You need to move on. Everyone else has.

dpworkin's avatar

@Captain_Fantasy You haven’t. And I want an apology for the unfair insinuation that I caused her to leave. Please keep out of this now.

FBI's avatar

I will leave Fluther thanks to this question. Someone start a new question about that (mentioning me) please. ~

Berserker's avatar

If people think something, a question, an opinion, whatever, is stupid, they have the right to express that opinion. Why not?

The problem is those who think this and try to do something about it, like as if somehow, something, confirmed them as the authority on the quality of the activity here. Just because you think something is lame, doesn’t mean it is. Everyone has the right to say so of course, but…it leads me to something @Simone_De_Beauvoir said;
..it’s not about lurve, it’s about adapting to the standards – you either do (grudgingly or not) or you leave.

No. I certainly understand that a community has standards, and I do my best to respect them. But I’m not gonna change on account of people, old or new, not liking my character. I don’t quite see what gives people the right to think that they’re the authority on comportment around here, which is one thing I’m thinking turns people off about this place at times. Especially when I, for example, have never broken any rules. Unless it’s a mod, ain’t not a damn soul who’s gonna tell me how to ’‘fit in’’.

Some demand such fucking high standards for things that have basically no basis. I follow the rules, but I’ll not follow anyone’s caprices, thanks.

I just wish people like Justine wouldn’t leave because of such occurrences. Now I can’t speak for anyone, but I’m thinking the reasons for departure don’t really have anything to do with someone thinking some questions are stupid.

I’ve seen the behaviour often enough, that one will never belong unless they act a certain way…fortunately, it doesn’t seem prominent, but enough to start all this drama, to which I am of no aid at all…but hey, gotta fit in amirite.

josie's avatar

Josie was here on 8/8/2012. It looks like most of the people in this thread left. Maybe over the same question. It’s sort of like walking into a place where a battle was fought. Corpses and litter. Ghastly, sad and quiet. Who were these people? Some must have been a little high strung. I remember a few of them-looks like this fight happened right after I got here. Some, I never knew at all. And it looks like one guy started it. Isn’t it always that way? I do remember him. I got into it with him once, felt bad about it, tried to make up to him and he insulted me. Too bad.

Shippy's avatar

I was here 04/01/2013

Nothing changed :)

love Just Justine

wundayatta's avatar

Oh @Shippy Please don’t go.

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