Social Question

philosopher's avatar

Are you aware of work being done in Geneva with the Collider?

Asked by philosopher (9152points) April 22nd, 2010

See link.http://www.facebook.com/notes/dr-michio-kaku/a-second-big-bang-in-geneva-the-large-hadron-collider-could-unlock-the-secrets-o/406922859738
I am concerned that America is not involved in this research. The potential is incredible.
The US should be more involved in everything that could lead to alternative energy production.
If your an American do you agree?

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40 Answers

RandomMrAdam's avatar

I agree that America should be looking into alternate forms of energy, and we have been including this. Have you confirmed that America is not involved in research for the Collider you mentioned?

Snarp's avatar

CERN is the European Organization for Nuclear Research. We have many institutions doing interesting research into particle physics in the U.S., but this one is not ours. Seems reasonable that the U.S. doesn’t have a piece of everything. In the end, CERN has tended to be pretty good about sharing the results of its research with the world (e.g. the World Wide Web that we’re all using right now). In addition, while the agency is European, the scientists working there come from all over the world and I would not be the least surprised if their were Americans on the LHC team
(which includes 10,000 scientists and engineers from 100 countries). Finally, this is a huge (27 km circumference for the collider itself), expensive, and complicated experiment. Attempting to build and operate a second collider just so we could be doing the same work would be pretty wasteful and foolish. This is the first of its kind, if it turns out to be useful, perhaps there will be others.

mrentropy's avatar

I get the impression that people high up in the government aren’t all that interested in science.

wonderingwhy's avatar

The US has participated to the tune of $531 million (link) with the LHC and I would find it very difficult to believe that, considering that investment and all the scientists pouring over even the limited data received so far, US teams aren’t involved in some way as an Observer. CERN is a primarily european endeavor but hardly restricted to EU only interests (explore that last link).

philosopher's avatar

@Snarp
They were going to build something like this in Texas but Congress did not fund it.
I think the Politicians are only interested in what is best for them.
Only Scientist comprehend everything well.
I grew up fascinated by Nasa and all Science. I hope American Children will continue to feel this way. I am not clear on Obama’s intentions.
We need to manufacture alternative energy products in the USA ; and do research here. This could improve the American economy.
Sadly I do not think many American’s comprehend the importance of alternative energy.

Snarp's avatar

@wonderingwhy Thanks for the details. With 20 European members of CERN the U.S. is still footing a tenth of the bill for the LHC. That certainly says a lot about U.S. involvement.

philosopher's avatar

@mrentropy
Most of them are wealthy lawyers. They do not really understand Science.
They do what is best for their carriers and hope we are unaware. I think American’s better wake up because we need to find solutions now. For too many years American’s drove their SUV’s without much concern.
Alternative energy solutions will be found by Scientist; politicians don’t even understand the research.
I receive emails on these matter. I simply wish to inform people.
I wish the Politicians had less say.

Mariah's avatar

Unfortunately I think most of America is too caught up in freaking out about how the particle collider is totally going to create a giant black hole that will destroy us all~ to care about its scientific value. What media coverage I’ve seen about the LHC has been ridiculously slanted towards the sensational, causing people to fear rather than take interest in this project.

OneMoreMinute's avatar

I think it’s where the world debt is going to be sent away at.

La_chica_gomela's avatar

Yes, I was aware.

La_chica_gomela's avatar

As far as your last question, yeah, it could be incredible, but it’s also hugely expensive, and could go nowhere. We’ll see what happens.

Ron_C's avatar

I have been following this work for the last few months when they started to get close to bringing it on line after the first crash when a bird or bug, I forgot which got into the collider field and caused an expensive disaster. People were afraid that they were going to cause the formation of a black hole. So far no black hole but a lot of interesting new discoveries and proofs of sub-atomic particles.

There are Americans involved and I believe that there is some financial support from the government. I don’t see why we have to build and pay for every important scientific project in the world. I think it is enough that we are involved and benefit from the discoveries.

philosopher's avatar

@Ron_C
I think it is wonderful that it is happening.
I am delighted that people care.

Ron_C's avatar

@philosopher me too. They keep cutting NASA’s budget or insisting that it gets into projects that are better handled by the private sector. There is not enough pure science done these days. You will probably notice that the biggest contributor to research in the U.S. is the defense department. That to me, is very frightening.

philosopher's avatar

It depends on who is the present.
Hopefully we will not have another present who gets us into an unnecessary war.
I have always been hooked on Science.
I see new technology as a way to help our economy. We should be innovators of new alternative technology and the manufactures too.
The nations that do this will be most successful.
China will steal everything they can. They already are.

Ron_C's avatar

@philosopher you are right that the president has a good deal to say about how NASA is handled but it is the congress that pays the bills. There are some in congress that think that NASA’s money would be better spent on social programs. Others on the right think that all government functions should be privatized. Most of the work at NASA is done by contractors, I speak from personal experience.

I go to China, a lot. They have many problems and an extremely large, unruly, population to support. They, as far as I know don’t steal anything but they buy a hell of a lot technology. If you have a problem with them, I suggest that you contact your congressmen and insist that we pull back on the trade agreements that make it easy for companies to move operations to China without reciprocal actions from China.

In my experience, big business and the State Department are the biggest enemies of American progress.

mattbrowne's avatar

We do live in the matrix. The LHC has actually created a black hole swallowing the whole Earth. But then the failsafe functions of the matrix software kicked in. We are still alive answering Fluther questions.

Snarp's avatar

@Ron_C You should be happy with Obama’s NASA plans then. He wants to increase NASA’s budget while leaving low earth orbit to private companies.

philosopher's avatar

@Ron_C
The mods censored my information about China.
CBS Evening news issued a report last evening confirming my suspicions.
Our companies need to be better protected from China and other criminals online.
If I tell you here they will delete it.
Check CBS Evening new fro 4/22/10
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/04/22/eveningnews/main6422768.shtml?tag=contentBody;featuredPost-PE

philosopher's avatar

@Ron_C
Check this link too.http://www.wrxfanatics.com/index.php?s=c104fced5736725d63e672c2ec139d0f&showtopic=55352&mode=threaded&pid=787851
It sounds like Cyber War to me.

Mariah's avatar

@Snarp Really? I’d heard that he had decreased NASA’s budget, putting their plans to return to the moon on hold.

philosopher's avatar

@Mariah
I get information on Science Channel,there web cite and other cites.

Snarp's avatar

@Mariah Obama’s current plan for NASA calls for an overall budget increase. It does scrap plans to go to the moon, but also calls for manned missions to asteroids and Mars. The Constellation rocket program is to be abandoned, but a new heavy lift rocket program will take its place. Here’s a good summary and analysis, with links to other opinions.

philosopher's avatar

@mattbrowne
There maybe people dumb enough to take you seriously.
Some people think these matters should not be discussed in this forum.
I personally can not comprehend what their problem is. They differently have one.
Maybe they choose to keep the facts a secret or to slant them somehow.

HungryGuy's avatar

They originally wanted to build the supercollider in the USA, but the USA didn’t want it, so they built it in Europe.

mattbrowne's avatar

@philosopher – Of course we should discuss the LHC in this forum. Of course physicists should discuss miniature black holes or the possibility of generating strange quarks. Of course the general public should be aware of the outcome of these scientific discussions. If a few people expect American courts to stop the experiments in Europe even though they’ve been declared safe this is worrisome. But the least we can expect is that the skeptics admit they were wrong. The first experiment was conducted and the Earth is still in one piece. If not, one explanation is that our brains are hooked up to some kind of virtual reality program making us believe the Earth still exists. And we are enjoying the show.

Ron_C's avatar

@philosopher I have heard about the Chinese virus and of ones coming from Russia, U.S., Brazil, and India. I believe that the perpetrators of virus programs deserve capital punishment. Besides the wasted man hours required to clean up their mess, some have the ability to damage hospital data bases, and air traffic control. They are in effect killing people. There is no punishment too severe for those people. I just don’t think that it is necessary to single our the Chinese just because some their hackers seem to be “better” at it.

philosopher's avatar

@Ron_C
I believe that the Chinese government is involved.
I also believe that they caused the 2001 Black Out.
I have information about this some place. It is on google.
I am not singling them out.
I think we should have International Laws against such things; but the UN will not even try. They are an inept organization.

Snarp's avatar

What motivation could there possibly be for China to cause a black out in the U.S.? Or to attack us in any way for that matter? The Chinese economy is as entirely reliant on ours as ours is on theirs. We are mutually dependent, and this is the biggest deterrent to serious conflict. If our economy were to be seriously damaged by a cyber attack or power failure, China’s financial reserves could become worthless overnight. And what are people doing with their electricity and their functional internet? Using and buying products made in China and making China richer.

philosopher's avatar

@mattbrowne
Some people will always oppose all Science.
People wanted to kill those who said, the Earth was not flat.
Humanity can not move forward without Scientific research. A species that does not prosper denies off.

Ron_C's avatar

@Snarp I completely agree. Since the Chinese are our major investors, you would expect them to protect their investment. Also the Chinese, historically are not known for invading countries. The U.S. unfortunately has an opposite reputation.

The good thing is that planting viruses is probably a capital crime in China. I also agree with @philosopher that the U.N. is very bad at preventing this sort of crime. The U.S. defense department does have a very good cyber defense program (unless Bush scuttled that too).

HungryGuy's avatar

Just to allay people’s fears about spontaneous black holes, particles routinely collide with atoms in the upper earth atmosphere with far greater energies than used in the LHC, and no black holes have yet been created.

philosopher's avatar

@Ron_C
You can find the facts on cbseveningnews.com.
On April 22 they did a story about theft via the Internet.
American companies, the Pentagon and citizens are being targeted.

Ron_C's avatar

@philosopher I couldn’t actually. There were a number of interesting stories that completely side-tracked me but I couldn’t find the one to which you refer. I do remember some of the stories saying that some of the attacks may have been traced to Chinese army based but is is all very vague. Hackers are notoriously famous for covering their tracks and redirecting traces.

I still stand by the idea that it makes no sense to attack what you already own. If the Chinese destroy our country and our dollar, they would be hard pressed to work their way into the modern world. You can reach higher standing on your neighbor’s shoulders than on his back.

mattbrowne's avatar

@philosopher – Yes, but scientists need inspiration and intuition as well. This one readon why art, music, poetry, and philosophy are important too.

philosopher's avatar

@philosopher
I agree. These things enrich our life and hopefully make us all more well rounded. The more we all know about different things.The better we can relate to each other.

mattbrowne's avatar

Sorry about my spelling. This is one reason why art, music, poetry, and philosophy are important too.

philosopher's avatar

LOL @mattbrowne . Spell check is an extension of my right hand.
In English writing class my Professor told me. “You express yourself well, your grammar has improved. I would like to know why you can’t spell? I still laugh when I think of it.
I was tested for dyslexia. The test was inconclusive. The Psychologist commented that I read too well.
I think we are all imperfect and human.

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