Are we turning into savage animals?

we are animals.

@Likeradar, ding ding ding, we have a winner.

@Likeradar: Yeap. Beat me to it.

Get off the internet, stop watching TV and movies altogether, and talk to each other more often. The people that already do that are sensitive and warm hearted people.

@Likeradar not funny. Keep reading and try to answer the Q. Go ahead, give it a try.

Humans as a species are more sensitive and caring to the needs than we have ever been. Sure, you can look at the news with disgust at whatever the tragedy of the week is, but compare that- as well as our modern ability to help more people more efficiently- with shit that used to happen in the past. Superweapons aside, we are more secure than we have ever been.

@Rangie You’re right. It’s not funny. It’s the truth.

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard are you kidding me? Kids killing kids for an Ipod is secure??????????????????????

@Rangie Read what he said. Look past the smaller things. Look at humanity as a whole. We are better off than we ever were. Even with all the shit going on in the world.
Or do you not know more than what Fox tells you?????????????????????????????????????????????????

@Rangie, instances like that don’t serve as representatives of the behavior of all of humankind. Go read about the Hundred Years War, the Hugenot Massacre, or any other historical era of barbarism and get back to me.

Fifty years ago in the U.S. people were routinely murdered for the color of their skin. I think we’re definitely improving.

@rangerr I am not talking about fox or any news station. I am talking about our kids. Gangs killing each other, kids killing teachers for no apparent reason, people killing for silly little things.

There are still murders, sure. That happens.
But the general trend is that the murder numbers are DECREASING.

I’d much rather take my chances in 2010 than in, say, the 1200s. I don’t know about you.

And if we do nothing now to teach our kid about the value of life, it will get much worse.

@Rangie Okay.. and what about the kids who are opposite of that? What about the kids who never put themselves first? What about the kids who are making a big difference in the world? The ones who care? I don’t know where you live that everyone is turning “savage”, but I’d move from there if that’s all that you’re seeing.

@Rangie The condescending tone you’re apparently so fond of isn’t gonna work on me. Try another strategy if you want to get under my skin.
I did read all 26 words, plus your tags. The details supported the question, and I answered it. Your title was also edited after I answered. Perhaps you could try to be more clear if that’s not the kind of answer you were looking for? Maybe I should have elaborated?
I don’t believe we as a species is “getting so desensitized.”
GAs, @Sarcasm, @rangerr, and @Snarp

So all of you are making this behavior okay, by excusing it by past events? This behavior is not okay, when a teacher has to worry about their life when they go to work. If you excuse things kids do that are bad behavior, by saying, that’s not so bad, I know kids that do worse. Then you are the problem.

@Likeradar Thank you! at least you gave me your belief.

@Rangie Yes. That’s exactly what I’m saying. It’s perfectly acceptable as long as there are other events to counter the bad ones.~
Hnnnnnng.

@Rangie No. The behavior is NOT okay. I don’t think anyone believes it is.
but it is better now than it was before. It’s an improvement.

@Rangie You didn’t ask why humans are the way we are and how we can change, you asked why we’re becoming a certain way. People on this thread are pointing out that that isn’t the case, and that as a species we may even be becoming less savage.

i’ve always been an ANIMAL!

@likeradar, They are pointing out that they don’t happen to think so. I do happen to think so. Read you local paper, listen to the news, listen to some of the parents making excuses for their kids for wrong doing.

@BoBo, That is more than I wanted to know. :)

If things are better than they were before, why do we have lock downs on school campuses? Why do people go in and shoot up a restaurant, or office, shopping mall, killing innocent people?

@Rangie lmao….....

You’re using a few examples to generalize an entire species.

@rangerr no, I am not using a few examples to generalize an entire species. I am talking about our children, who are developing an attitude of disrespect, that is dangerously close to hate. Yes, there are great kids around, and many of them. I am not talking about them. I think you know exactly what I am talking about, you just want to pick, pick, pick until you create an argument.

@Rangie there will always be some “bad apples” in the barrel! That is the life we live…there are still lots of good people here. It is a matter of seeing the glass “half-full” or “half empty!” Personally, try to concentrate on the good people in this crazy World. A positive attitude is important to living a happy life.

Kids used to fucking cannibalize and go to war against each other in the past alot more commonly than they act like disrespectful little shits now. You need some serious historical perspective, which you clearly aren’t open to.

People are also far more aware of things than before and have more means in which to access it,and maybe not in a good way and/or not always in truth, but I guess it all depends on how you look at it. I believe in part that people in general are gaining access to ways and are quickly finding out and seeing things that have profound effects on them. Specially at younger ages.

Also much of it depends on where you and how you grew up not saying it guarantees you become a “savage” or that you won’t, but I got lucky that I did not stay in the neighborhoods that I lived in when I was a little kid. Just saying.

What I am getting at is if you want to change people overall you need to improve the foundations of the community and environment in which they grow,learn and interact in.

I mean honestly where do think these “savage” people come from the thin air?

By saying this I am not proposing that every person who grows up in a amazing, supportive atmosphere will become a ideal citizen or vice versa that someone who grows up in the ghetto with say statistics like this http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Detroit&state=MI
shall be a “savage” gang member , murderer, rapist. But lets be honest it does make a difference, does it not?

As everyone else has pointed out we have come a long way compared to past times, so do not be to quick to put down the whole human race.

It’s really not relevant to say it’s better or worse nor is discussing it in terms of the whole picture of a species. The point is clearly there is something needlessly wrong, what can be done about it? Well, really what can you do about it? People are free to make their choices in life, if that ends in shooting up a public center, so be it. The best you can do try to understand why it happens, address the issues, and show them another way with the hope they choose it instead.

@BoBo1946 , Yes, for the most part so do I. But, I feel we must be aware of some of our bad seeds, it can become contagious. I have a daughter in law that teaches, challenged kids, in junior high school. We fear for her safety everyday. The teacher has no authority anymore. And it is getting worse.

@Sarcasm You’re right… we’re safer now from violence that we were in 1200’s. Easily. The mere fact that we are made aware of the atrocities, are agog of them and comment here and elsewhere, shows clearly that we are NOT becoming MORE violent, but are becoming less. Our reaction, otherwise would be less than surprise at the news of gangs and kids killing each other.

@Rangie I just want to start an argument? No. I’m telling you that you’re wrong.
First off. By saying our children, yes, you’re generalizing. I don’t know about your children, but my children have no problem. You’re talking about maybe 2 out of 10 kids in the world.
You do know how many children are in the world, right?

This is what’s wrong with the media today, not with human beings. A few sensational stories get played up ad nauseum until people think they’re living in Bartertown. Fifty years ago being black and in the wrong place at the wrong time could easily get you strung up from a tree. Seventy years ago Hitler was slaughtering Jews by the millions. A hundred and fifty years ago “civilized” grown men shot each other to death in duels over personal insults and half of the U.S. was willing to kill the other half to defend slavery. There can be no doubt that things are getting better, not worse. Much of what we see now is simply far more visible than it once was.

@Snarp It could very well be that we are getting sensationalized news that we are not use to from the past. And to some of us that are seniors, it is frightening. and @rangerr My children and grandchildren are excellent citizens thank you very much. I don’t have to make excuses for them to anyone.

@Rangie Well, then why did you use the phrase our children? I could only assume that your children were disrespectful by your statement.

@Rangie where are you talking about? My son is in a special ed class and I have no worries about him or his fellow students. Anecdotes don’t equal data. I’m afraid you’re living in the ,..... wait… I don’t know where you’re posting from because you’ve gone and built yourself a snarky little profile…. go again and have the last word here. You weren’t asking a question and looking for an answer, it seems….

go ahead and vent and I’ll warn everyone to stand back…. (I’ve been practising with volcanoes here)

@rangerr, If I was including my kids, I would have said “my kids” What, do I have to spell everything out so a kindergartner would understand it? I will consider you the next time I post a question. I will spell it out in detail. I expected you were open minded enough to understand what I was saying. Sorry I overrated you.

I think it’s more accurate to say we’ve become more cynical about people.

@Rangie There always have been children with a bad attitude. There always have been violent people in school. There always have been robberies, muggings, harassment, etc perpetrated by youth.

You know what I think of some of the children and teenagers I know?
I think how amazing it is that a class of 4th graders raised thousands of dollars to help a classmate with cancer, the teenage boy who held the door open for me this morning at the coffee shop, the 8th graders who adore their teacher and make her get-well cards when she’s out sick, the 10 year old who screams wildly for her brother at a softball game, the 9 year old who spearheaded a school-wide bake sale and clothing drive to help the people of Haiti after their recent disaster.

To me, it seems by this question and other things you’ve contributed to Fluther that you have an issue with youth and are convinced that the world is going to hell in a handbasket. If that’s what you’re looking for, that’s what you’ll see.

And if I may defend @rangerr for a moment, disagreeing with your statements =/= pick, pick, picking until you choose to argue. Or did you expect everyone to agree with you?

@Rangie well, those kind of conditions are limited to a couple of schools in my state (Mississippi). That is the advantage of living in a rural state. Peer pressure is not as great here. They live so far apart that the “rub-off” affect is not as great! For the most part, the kids are still wholesome and good here!

@Captain_Fantasy Thank you, perhaps that is a better choice of words. But I think the know what I meant. Because I didn’t ask it they wanted me to, it is not lets beat up Rangie for everything including my profile. Oh well.

It’s not worth fighting over here.

LOL @ “turning into”. That tickles me.

@BoBo1946 I lived most of my life up in a small community in the mountains. I am living in a town with a lot of people and traffic in California. Things are very different for me. I am not denying the good children way outnumber the bad ones. My grandchildren are all working towards scholarships. I think the drugs, partying at younger ages, TV, some of the music is making death easier to see.

Another issue is that we live in a world where people are more mixed ethnically, economically, and culturally. We are more exposed to a lot of different kinds of people, particularly in the U.S., than we were fifty years ago. Problems that were hidden from us because we didn’t have to deal with them are now a part of our lives.

I’ll throw you a bone, when I hear gangster rap and hear about gangs today, I think something is definitely very wrong. When I see kids who are outright disrespectful, I am disturbed, but I try to remember that it’s not everyone and that there are horrors in our past that make it look pretty minor. I think it is too much to say we are becoming savage animals, or to see a trend towards the decline of civilization. More likely, we are in a transitional phase, but the longer trend toward a more humane society continues.

@CyanoticWasp loll..got’cha!

Well I can be wild in the bedroom grrrr.

@Rangie got’cha sport…have a good one!

I am just looking for a way anyone who cares, can help some of these youngsters, that need guidance that they are not getting at home or elsewhere. That’s all. I am not trying to start a fight. I inserted the word savage because the first few posts were making fun of me. I really don’t know how to deal with some of you people. You are so ready to call names and make fun of people because they phrase things differently than you would. And I think that in itself is disrespectful. And quite frankly some of you are not worth taking the time to respond to.

@Rangie _some here, take no prisoners!” Took a while for me to get use to people that really don’t give a damn about others, their feelings, etc! A given, there are some very nice people here, but there are some that will “kick you and laugh!” after a while, you separate the good from the bad…and there is always the ugly..loll

@Rangie How about volunteering with Big Brothers Big Sisters or in an after school program?
Although, I can’t imagine you’d find all of those people worth your time either…

@Rangie We all understand what you’re saying perfectly well- that children as a whole are valuing life less and less, and that they are getting more violent.

What you don’t appear to understand is that everything in history proves you completely wrong. You seem to forget the Children’s Crusades, in which some 30,000 children willingly set out for war on another religious group. The ancient Greeks and Romans gathered to watch the devouring of people for entertainment. Let’s not forget the Mongol Empire, in which all of the people, including children, brutally raped, pillaged, suffocated, catapulted flaming, dismembered body parts into, etc. entire countries in the name of land. As others have pointed out, religious and race prejudice have vastly improved from the past slavery and segregation, as well as the Holocaust.

I would venture to say that people, including children, value lives much, much more now considering they, in general, no longer consider the lives of people that are different than them to be completely unimportant to the point of slavery and murder, or consider their torture to be entertainment.

Crimes of today’s youth are nothing compared to those in the past. Though where we are now is nowhere near perfect, I don’t see how today’s children value life less. There are many “bad apples” as some people have put it- there always have been, and there always will be. There is plenty of help available to most children if they need or want it- more so now than ever, actually. Sometimes children don’t want the available help. Though it is true that there are cases in which guidance is unavailable, it can’t really be helped. There’s only so much anyone can do, and our government, schools, and charities are trying as best as they can. The guidance available is certainly better than in the past, considering the fact that there wasn’t any available at all not too long ago.

I am not trying to start/continue any sort of argument, I am merely stating the facts as they are.

@Likeradar excuse me Although, I can’t imagine you’d all of those people worth your time either… Would you please redo that sentence so I can respond?

@Rangie i live in the South…i’m use to people making fun of us…especially, people from Mississippi! It is automatic….you are at the bottom of the barrel! I stay awake most night worrying about it..loll

For example yesterday, I made a “fun question” about your favorite sandwich….—the mods said it was too simple!’’ geeezzzzzzz

My philosophy, “have fun and let the big ball bounce!”

@Rangie I left out a word. It’s been edited.

I echo what others have said and I encourage you to look back into history. Humans have been far more savage in past times than, say, within the past 50 years. So, no, we are not turning into savage animals. If anything, we’ve become a lot more tolerant and civilized.

The media has a sensationalist bias because that’s what sells. There are plenty of kids working hard to make a difference in the world. I just read something about a high school kid who, on a family vacation to Africa, was shocked and moved by the massive need for basic medical care. When he got home, he wanted to raise money to buy an ambulance for a rural health center in Uganda. Eight years later, his organization supports local grassroots organizations that provide access to health services for over 62 villages in Uganda and more than half a million people in Rwanda.

Sadly, all you ever hear about is kids killing each other for their shoes or iPods or whatever, and never about kids starting up very successful non-profit organizations to help people. This story I told above is not alone, I know of several others and I find it very moving that a high school kid could do more good than many adults are moved to.

@Fly I am merely stating the facts as they are. you mean as you see the facts. I don’t happen to see things that way. When I was a child, we could sleep out on the front lawn, nobody locked their doors, You could leave your keys in the car. You respected your elders, and never swore at them. Things are not like that anymore.

@Rangie best question of the day….many responses to prove that!

@Rangie You’ve also moved to a more urban location. When you were a child people in New York locked their doors and didn’t leave the keys in their cars. Even without moving we are all more urban now, more densely packed. That doesn’t mean people are more dangerous, even if our environment may be.

@BoBo1946 Yes, I think you are right. Water on a ducks back. Or, I could just leave Fluther and move on. Yes, I know there are some really nice people here, I have had the pleasure of communicating with them on Q’s and PM’s. But you know some of them are so negative and nasty, it starts to get contagious and before you know it you are sounding just like them. Thank you for your compassion.

@Rangie Actually no, not “as I see them,” as they are. You need to step back from the situation and look at the general world. You are lucky to have lived in a place where you didn’t have to worry about such things. If you had lived in New York or California when you were young, it would have been a different story. If you had been black, it would have been different. If I knew your exact age, I could give you specific examples. You are being much too close-minded for an issue that is much bigger than just one person’s childhood.

@got’cha Sport….we must always (try) to concentrate on the good guys!—like you and me!—loll but, that is really true…for sure!

@Rangie I think a major problem is that the media sensationalizes stories and people become fearful and irrational. You still can sleep in your yard in many areas. One of the homes I work in never has locked doors, and nothing negative has ever happened. I have left my car window open accidentally overnight in a big city, and nothing happened. Is it a smart thing to do? Maybe not. But it probably wasn’t when you were a child either, it’s just that there wasn’t 24 hour news telling us how dangerous the world can be.

There has always been kidnappings, murders, robberies, violence in school…

@Fly wonderful responses. Wise and intelligent (a girl wise beyond her years). Thank-you.

@Fly I lived most of my adult life in the mountains. Sorry I didn’ explain in detail. My childhood was spent in Fresno, California.

Did you just tune in?

@jjmah :))))

@BoBo1946 love you bobo.

@evandad sorry about the GA it was a mistake. I meant to hit the Flag .

@jjmah Thanks, I think. I am not sure anymore if I am being made fun of or not. :)

footnote: @Rangie when i first arrived here…(Fluther) i got my ass kicked more ways than it can be kicked…wow…learned real quick to say, “you make a good point in your response…thank you and have a good day!” As someone said earlier in the post, “it ain’t worth it!” But again, i’ve got some good friends here….not as many as I had on AB…many here don’t like being friendly…they think that is wierd! lmao….their loss…not mine!

@BoBo1946 May I borrow your saying?

@BoBo1946 Well, you really torqued me off in one of your earlier posts, though I can’t recall it.

@Rangie love you too my friend….us sensitive people that care for others, always get the wrong end of the stick…but, that is okay…rather be that way than hard, cold, and calloused anyday!

@Rangie My comment was directed towards @Fly.

@Rangie anytime my friend….told a couple to “kiss my ass,” that did not work well…loll

Just anecdotally, for what it’s worth, you can absolutely sleep in your yard and leave your doors unlocked where I live now. There is practically no crime and neighbors look out for each other. My next-door neighbors never lock their doors and I feel pretty safe leaving my car unlocked. I would also guess that you could leave your keys in the car, as well, but that’s not something I’d ever want to experiment with.

@Likeradar… we are all animals, guess we are just reverting back a couple million years.

@Rangie You do know that the word “our” describes something that you are a part of, right?
If you were not including your children, then why did you not say “everyone else’s children except mine because clearly they are perfect and do no wrong like all of the other immoral children in the world” ?
And I am open minded. I am open to the fact that not all children are turning “savage” and that we are actually improving, while clearly, you are not.
Unfortunately, our media is also improving, and it happens to be showing more of the negative side of youth than the good. It’s what gets more reactions.

@Snarp well, “i ain’t perfect, yet!”

@Rangie
I’m glad that you lived a lovely childhood in Fresno- You’re one of the few people with that privilege. Regardless, you really ought to consider the lives of people other than your own. You cannot incriminate a whole generation based on such a specific, uncommon experience that you were lucky enough to have.

@Fly Not just one persons childhood. But it is a good example. I don’t live in a box, where I never hear anything about what is going on in this country you know. So now my interest in helpling, has turned into disrespect and berating Rangie. And your point?
How do you think my experiences were uncommon? Others have said you can still sleep outdoors in our front yard, or leave your keys in your car. My experiences are not uncommon.

I don’t even know how to correctly answer this without coming off as… extremely cynical and realistic.

But… I just want to say that everyone is not like you. Please, for your childrens’ sakes and for the people around you – please try to become more sensitive to other peoples’ beliefs that are not similar to your own.

We all have to live in this world, whether you may like it or not. We’ve got to work together in this and be open minded about all things.

Okay? Okay.

and my generation isn’t that bad. geez.

Yes! And I am loving every minute of it.

@Fly ummm…just thought that Rangie showed a caring attitude! Certainly don’t see a self serving attitude here..that is what you are saying, is it not???

Disagreeing =/= disrespecting.

@ChazMaz… i bet you are. we all no you like it doggie style

Look, I am a 5’2” 67 year old woman. I have been told, when driving down the street, keep your eyes forward. Don’t look at the people in the car next to you. Don’t go places alone. Don’t stay out after dark. Don’t stop for a cop until you get to a public well lite place. and on and on.

@ChazMaz seems to be “an air of audacity here today!

Never will forget Berl Ives saying that in a “Cat On A Hot Tin Roof!”

loll..the fingers are moving fast…stand by

@Rangie : What did that have to do with this…?
I’m a 6“1 eighteen year old girl who is just asking you if you can be more open minded.

@Rangie The question is worded in what is a sensational and frankly somewhat insulting manner. That’s why you’re getting more responses about people turning into animals (savage or otherwise) than about helping people. That and the fact that if anyone knew what to do about troubled young people we wouldn’t have so many troubled young people.

@Rangie I’m a 5’9” 18 year old. I don’t see where that is relevant.

I have a feeling that most of you were not bad kids. I was. Drugs, running away, sex, problems in school, disrespecting my parents—you name it, I lived it. Let me tell you, adolescents are the same today as they were in the late 80’s and early 90’s and life hasn’t come to screeching halt, yet.

There will always be people who live their lives violently and angrily, but people are no more savage today then they were when I was a punk ass kid.

@troubleinharlem loll..are you sure you are not 6’2’’!

@BoBo1946 ; Ohhhh, I did the things backwards. Oops. ^^;

think we have a generation gap here!

This is fun…let the big ball bounce and the goodtimes roll..(where did the round come from…loll)...come on baby and let me thrill your soul!!

@troubleinharlem loll..well, beats me…I can’t think!

[mod says:] Multiple off topic responses aren’t necessary. If you have a comment for a particular user that doesn’t apply to the question, please send it via PM instead of derailing the thread. Following off topic quips will be removed.

I agree with @Snarp in an important respect to this Q (look at that, twice in one day!):

You’re asking two questions in one sentence: “How did this [bad thing] happen?” and “How can we fix it?”

Ask the Q again simply as an “enabling” question (like the second one above). That is, asking “how did the world get to be so awful?” concentrates people’s minds on the awfulness in the world. There’s no shortage of that, unfortunately, and no limit to the ways in which that has happened and manifested. But put that aside for now: the answer to the Q of “how did we get so messed up?” is unimportant. (The Q can be important—in a negative way—because it focuses attention on the wrong things—that is, the bad things in life.)

If you write the preamble to your Q acknowledging that there are bad things in life but then ask only “How can we develop a more civil society?” (or however you want to word that) now people are concentrating on “How can we make life better?” and only on that.

You’ll get better answers. Answers that might lead to actual, implementable solutions. It’s an “enabling” question. Try it sometime and see. (It helps on a personal level, too. When you’re faced with problems don’t think about the problems—reframe your thoughts to think about “how can I resolve this problem?” instead of “how did I get here?”)

I was ask my age because the person could answer me according to my generation I think. I definitely see things are different today than they were in my 20“s

@Rangie : Just because I’m younger doesn’t mean I don’t have a valid point… remember, open-mindedness is a virtue.

@CyanoticWasp thank you, I think I understand what you are saying. I have never been on one of these internet forums before. I have only been here 1 month. I will try to do a better job with my questions in the future, if I stay on. Thank again, I appreciate you.

@Rangie awwww, you’re entirely welcome. I wasn’t criticizing your Q (directly). And the second part is a perfectly wonderful Q.

I was taught about “asking enabling questions” at a business seminar nearly 25 years ago, and the lesson has stuck with me (and changed my life for the better countless times) since then. It’s a powerful way of thinking if you internalize it. It helps to focus your thoughts into constructive ways rather than pointless and futile lists of everything that is wrong in the world.

Thanks for the chance to proselytize again, too.

I’m 6’4”, thirty-six years young.

Good question @Rangie.

@Rangie The quality of life in America in general was not like your childhood,

Now that I know your age, I know that you lived through the Civil Rights Movement and through the prejudice that followed. If you had been black during this time, you would have likely been lynched/murdered, been a victim of KKK crimes or other hate crimes, etc. If you so much as supported blacks, even though you are white, you would have been hated. This is just one of several examples as to the other lives that you need to consider.

As you said, “When I was a child, we could sleep out on the front lawn, nobody locked their doors, You could leave your keys in the car. You respected your elders, and never swore at them. Things are not like that anymore.” You still can do those things, but people don’t as a precaution, and rightly so. There have always been rapes and kidnappings and stealing, etc. You must consider population- There are really only more now than there were then because of drastic population increase and other such factors thus making such crimes more likely, not just simply “decreasing value of life.” And the swearing has more to do with how you were raised. People certainly swore at their elders back then, though it was not as accepted. People also smoked more often in your time because they didn’t know the dangers, and didn’t wear seat belts as often because they didn’t realize how much safer it was to have them in case of an accident. Locking doors and taking keys out of the car are similar actions that are now done more often because it is safer to do so than it is to not.

I am simply trying to make the point that your view that today’s youth values life less and is becoming more violent, vulgar, etc. is not as simple as just your experiences, nor is it as simple as today’s youth. You must consider it all to have an accurate idea.

@BoBo1946 She used her childhood in Fresno to counter my point because I included California in my answer, and I was simply clarifying. Perhaps you misinterpreted my tone…?

It’s so complicated and we have every right and SHOULD be mad and frustrated! No question. Some of us took your question too literally… sorry. I get that now. People here… you, me, everyone… we use anecdotes to back up our opinion mostly, and that’s not a bad thing.. It is what we know and is often the very point of our question. We may ask a vague sounding question but what we’re really wondering is ‘How can ‘a specific indecent’ ever happen?’ We’re gob smacked about things that have happened and built up in our minds and so we SHOULD be. My point, is that the fact that we all find certain things unacceptable shows that we are NOT regressing. What will help, is if people become less apathetic and have less of a ‘circle the wagons, build a bigger fence, buy a bigger gun’ attitude and really DO get involved in the kids lives that they see starting to go off the rails. Those kids you talk about… they have cousins, uncles, aunts, teachers, brother’s in law, sister’s in law….. etc.. and guess what… WE are those cousins, uncles, aunts, teachers, brother’s in law, sister’s in law..etc…. We can only ask ourselves what can WE do to help…. not others.

@Fly I understand what you are saying and it certainly makes sense. My Q was improperly stated. My first response was a put off to make me defensive. And it continued, and I couldn’t get my point across. With that said, I did grow up in the 60’s. I lived in Berkeley during those riots and it was horrible. My best friend was a black woman, and I would have gone anywhere with her. I did have to leave there with my children because it was getting too dangerous.
I guess I am projecting on my childhood, because that is what I know. I was raised to always respect my elders. My kids were raised the same way, and their kids were also. I see this in my own family, and wonder why it is so different in some families. I see kids talk to their parents that is despicable. What ever happened to Honor thy mother and father?
I really do have an open mind regardless of what some think. I am always open to have my mind changed if someone makes a good enough point. These people don’t know me, and so to call me names, is just an example of the disrespect I am talking about.
I really want to help improve the attitudes of many of the children today. So they can have a quality life like I have had.

@Rangie What you’re asking in that last quip is completely different than your original question… please decide what you really want to ask.

@rangerr I am getting to the point were I am afraid to say anything, because I am apparently misleading people, or I am misunderstood. I am trying to say: I think with the many sources of information, entertainment, words in music today, wrap, video games, the way parents talk to their kids, the way kids talk to their parents, things I have heard people say when there is a gang shooting. like ” oh well, one of these days there won’t be any gangs, they are all killing each other off”. There doesn’t seem to be enough concern. I am wondering how we can turn this attitude around. I am not great with words like some of you, but I still have compassion, and am concerned with our young people.
I felt it was very insensitive of someone to suggest I listen to too much Fox news. What the heck do fox news have to do with it?

Why are people so often saying that we’re getting worse, more cruel, more savage, more bloodthirsty, more evil and what not…haven’t we always been this way? Didn’t mankind come to be because in our cavemen days we ate neanderthals without cooking em?

I mean I’m no good with history, but it doesn’t take a genius to see that much of it is writ in the blood of man. Christianity itself stands on a pillar of human bones, and that’s just one example out of countless ones, and here we are bitching about Ipods.

Sure that’s horrible, but no worse than sacking some village or beheading someone cuz they don’t believe in the right fucking god.

Times and cultures change, but our behaviours face à face this bullshit keeps the same damn approach it always has.

The value of human life for one’s benefit has always been diminished, and most likely always will be. I don’t think we’d even be humans if we didn’t amuse ourselves by skullfucking one another.

But the real answer is, we’ve been training subconsciously for centuries in order to meet cannibals from outer space and fight against them.
Troo storeez

@Rangie To be honest….after centuries of B.S…....some people are just going to say: “Screw it, this is how it goes apparently”. Look how long evolution took, changing a whole race of animals isn’t going to take place in a short amount of time.

@Symbeline What is wrong with you? Nobody is bitching about ipods. That was an example of what a kid would kill another kid for. A stupid ipod or a pair of sneakers.

@Blackberry You are apparently right.

@Rangie You mean it was a fictious example? Well Christ.

@Rangie I don;t think that human nature has really changed since the Romans were in charge. We have more access to weapons and have come up with some really creative ways to end human life,and some really gross and stomach turning forms of torture just because we have the medium of film and special effects.
What keeps the animal beneath the surface is Civilization and Society. Look for the animal in people who are disenfranchised and on the fringes. This is a really good reason to do all the we can to integrate the convicted felon upon release from prison. And to help those on the fringes who have nothing to lose. When the breakdown of society happens, look for the best and the worst to surface in us. One does not happen without the other.

@Symbeline this sort of thing is happening. I have heard about them, A kid killing another for a jacket and a pair of sneakers, And I do believe the ipod thing is real, although I would have to do some searching to find where I heard it. Nevertheless, you know very well, what I am talking about.

@Rangie Never said any of it wasn’t real. A lot of stupid shit happens for no reason, my point is that I don’t think that it’s anything new.

@Trillian Yes, and it would be great if we could intervene before they become convicted felons. And get more education in the prisons, with structured classes. I know there are a lot of kids that drop out of school, and wind up getting into trouble. Well, if they knew there is a classroom waiting for them in prison, maybe they would stay in school.

@Symbeline It may not be anything new, but what do you think should be done about it? Should we just say A lot of shit happens for no reason and I don’t think that it’s anyhting new. And then what?

If anyone knew the answer to that, then maybe things would be different. If I had to make a plan, I would reduce things that make folks strive towards violence; more equalty for everyone, so we can reduce poverty, and then more education, for one…the most important thing I think would be that we’d have to stop relying on money so much.

But I’m just dreaming, really.

@Rangie I think the term we are looking for is ‘Overwhelming’. We all have lives to live, rent to pay etc., how can we all just stop what we are doing and fix the myriad problems with society? It’s too overwhelming. If you fix one problem, it comes back again. If you fix one problem, there’s still 300,000,732,892 more to fix.

@Symbeline I don’t think you are just dreaming. If more of us thought that way, maybe we could come up with some way to improve things. Equality is a God given right, why do some people not know that? What make some folks think they are better than anyone else? I would love to hear their answer. As for reducing poverty, yes. If our government would stop sending money out of this country for stupid things like “why do birds perch in trees in XXX Country?” We should be using that money to take care of our own poor right here in this country. At my age, time is running out and I can’t fix it, so I worry about it.

@Blackberry But if we fix just one, it is one less than we had. There is something we can all do, no matter how small it is.
I am doing only one thing, but it does help in my community. I purchase pallets full of items, like bedding, kitchen wares, clothes, and I get them for very little money for the most part. I figure out that if I get let’s say $2000 worth of products, and I pay only $200 for it. I count my items and divide them into $200, and sell the items for that. I don’t do this to make money. In some cases the folks can get a comforter set that would normally sell for $300 in the store, for $40. It is a small way of helping, but the buyers are needy and appreciate it.

@Rangie Well I commend you on your efforts :)

@Blackberry Thanks. I don’t know what else I can do. I guess I was hoping others would have ideas. I am appalled that some one can kill someone else with little regard for life. For money, objects, just stuff. Every single life is just as important as another. I will never understand why people tend to classify people in most important, like actors and politicians, to less important, spouses of those so called important ones. Then to us so called average people, to the less fortunate. It disgusts me when I see people getting all excited about seeing so and so the actor or politician an getting autographs. I will take an autograph of an individual helping a group of kids play ball or something to keep them involved in society. Thanks for understanding.

I do, too. (commend your efforts)

I just.. I don’t know, when I hear people say things like, When I was young, people did this, and kids respected their elders, etc. etc. it just makes me think it’s nostalgia, a glossed-over remembrance of times past. We’re all guilty of it to some degree and I am already nostalgic for the 90’s (probably irrationally so). Things change, but things never really change. You have good kids and bad kids, good people and bad people, people who help and people who hurt, no matter what era you look at.

@MissAnthrope I guess you are right. I was hoping we could change the numbers of bad to good. I am not an idealist really, I generally look at things realistically. But, this one stumps me. To me, manners are manners. Respect is respect. I don’t think that really changes. I do think parents are not taking the time to teach those things. When my children were in grade school, I would go to the first day of school with them, and holding their hand, I would say to the teacher, if m child gets out of line call me. They knew privileges would be taken, if that was the case. I never put anything past my kids, because kids will be kids. But, I did stay on top of things.
Today they are teachers, and a stay at home dad and housekeeper.

Don’t think that desensitization was invented with violent media. Fortunate people are insulated almost completely from death and suffering, which are much more desensitizing than violent videogames and movies.

But, that’s not what you’re talking about, really, is it? The value of human life declines with overpopulation. When the numbers of people begin to stress the support systems, everyone’s value becomes suspect. There are two ways to “fix” it. One involves mass-death. And one involves mass-enlightenment. Guess which one’s more likely.

@zophu I don’t believe our value becomes suspect. I am sorry you think the value of human life declines with overpopulation. Each person has something to contribute and are valuable. Maybe they don’t contribute for one reason or another, but I don’t think is is because of overpopulation. And I certainly don’t think mass-death is the answer. I don’t think there is a support system anymore. It has become too much about MEMEME. That is all you hear. What about me? Why did this happen to me? If more people would look around them and see the other person they would have a better outlook on life. Way too much negativity.

We seem to go through periods of savagery. There were the Huns, Alexander the Great,
Jewish massacres in the bible, communist, fascist, and middle-eastern dictators, international drug cartels. All of these groups occur when people fall for the lies of strong, ruthless leaders. What we need is a long period of anarchy to get us back on an even footing.

One of Douglas Adams’ books explains that the people that want to run for president and succeed should never be allowed to hold office. High political positions should be only held by people unwilling to hold and keep the office.

@Ron_C well I don’t know about anarchy, but perhaps get rid of all the Washington social butterflies that call themselves politicians. Give the laws back to the States for a while. Then we can all take a deep breath and start over with good solid businessmen to run such a big business as the United States, instead of a bunch of attorneys, that have most likely never run a business.

Looks like I’m getting into this question a bit late in the game, but after reading every response (all 138 of them… wow!) I still wanted to say something that hasn’t been mentioned fully.

What has mainly been argued in this post by the OP, as I understand it, is the change in humanity in the past 60-odd years in the USA. This is an incredibly narrow view of the world. Sixty, one hundred, even a thousand years is a greatly insufficient period of time to use as comparison for any aspect of human nature. Humans only developed agriculture ten thousand years ago, and we were hunter gatherers for long before that. That’s a lot of time for human behavior to be ignored.

I agree with those who think we’ve gotten better as far as being “savage animals” go. Because of the the increased law and social awareness people have, crimes of all sorts have diminished. Back before modern civilization, as some have said, simple disputes were often decided by fights to the death.

But in ways, we haven’t gotten better. Because outright violence is no longer socially acceptable, we’ve found different, more roundabout ways of making each other miserable. Instead of killing someone, you can sue them for everything they’re worth. Instead of fist fights, people get harassed verbally or over the internet to the point of suicide.

Brutality is part of human nature. People have always done terrible things for stupid, selfish means – people have killed for something much more petty than an iPod. It’s part of our animalistic nature that we have so desperately tried to hide with our mask of civilization.

In my opinion people in general aren’t getting more savage, we’re just changing the ways in which we already are savage. Chances are, @Rangie, there were just as many people (relative to the population, of course) committing crimes as there are now, perhaps even less – just in different ways and with different media coverage. If there were iPods back when you were growing up, chances are some stupid criminal would kill someone for one at the same time you were casually sleeping in your lawn.

@ParaParaYukiko Your point well taken.

@Rangie that reminds me of when Pat Robertson was running for president. I was still a republican and a friend asked me to sign the petition to get Robertson on the ballot in Pennsylvania. I told him that I would never want a preacher on the ballot. My friend told me that he was also a lawyer. I told my friend that I would work as hard as I could to see that Robertson never became president. Luckily we won.

Please people don’t get me wrong. I am not bashing attorneys. My sister in law is an attorney, working very hard to aid the less fortnunate with all their money.

@Ron_C Some people should stick to their calling, including attorneys. When I was in real estate, those were the two most difficult to work with. One wanted something for nothing, and the other wanted to write their own contract. I indeed let one do just that, had I let it stand, he would have been screwing himself. :)

@Rangie like the old joke, What do you call 100 lawyers at the bottom of the ocean?

A good start. I guess the word congressman could also be used.

@Ron_C your funny. I don’t think any of the political jobs were intended to be permenant, with huge retirements. I believe that is one of the reasons these jokers get into office. If truth were to be told, most of them qualify for members of the mafia.

I think we’re less ‘savage’ now than before and I don’t think anyone is teaching their kids not to value life.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir silly person. I said I think they are not teaching them to value life. Re read my statements.

@Rangie Okay, semantics – I think people are teaching kids how to value life – I know I am and all my friends are, as well.

@Rangie that’s why I have always believed in term limits and would like to see a lottery to elect our representatives. I propose that elected offices be filled by lottery of all qualified voters in a congressional district. The presidency should be filled by a nation wide lottery with a 4 year limit. No parties and the chances of getting someone that doesn’t want to stay in office is excellent. We would also have a bigger pool of more qualified people.

@Ron_C… ”100 lawyers at the bottom of a Congressman?”

Doesn’t that pretty much describe the system we now have?

@CyanoticWasp hahahahahahha! good one!!!

@rangie – it exhausted me to try to help raise my husband’s and my children (blended) and I don’t want to start again.
But this conversation – yes I’ve read the whole thing – makes me reconsider. Damn!! I was having such a nice restful evening and now I’m going to have to get up tomorrow and look for volunteer opportunities!!!! I’m 67 too, with less energy than you have. You’ve ruined my life, thank you very much.

@susanc pretty funny, hope your volunteer work isn’t too strenuous.

Again, I am signing off of this forum. I thought I had important things to contribute, but apparently I didn’t. Quite honestly I do have a life and important thing to do, beside get beat up by most of you folks. so enjoy yourselves, but find someone else to gang bang.

Mind shut, should be open.

@cazzie no not shut, just tired. so so tired. sleep well, good night.

The beast inside human beings can be unleashed. Just look at what the Nazis were capable of.

But overall, I actually think the opposite is happening. We are getting less savage every year. Keep in mind we are 6.8 billion people today. We need to look at the percentages. Plus global news report everything. From anywhere. Bad news is news that sells. It distorts reality.

You cant turn into something that you allready are.

@everyone… The original question was a vent of frustration. She sounds like she needs a rest from people in general and recoup her strength. I know the feeling. But I hope she can find a bit of strength in some of our words and to not give up completely on this forum. We all have much to learn and contribute.

@Rangie I don’t think you’re ’‘too old’’ to do anything. You’ll be too old when you’re dead. In fact, if you’re an older person, you probably have extensive wisdom or knowledge and life experiences that would greatly help to change the world, that is, if the world can be changed.
I personally don’t believe it can, but that doesn’t mean I’m right, but whatever the case, I sure wish someone could instruct me otherwise.

In any case, the problem with any methods to help anything, in my opinion, if I use my previous example is that I think I know exactly what makes the cogs of mankind work. Which I’m pretty sure I don’t. So if I managed to do what I personally think should be done, wouldn’t I be no better than anyone in charge of great power who believes they do the best for all, despite how some disagree with it?

Great answer @Symbeline ! And @Rangie, the world needs you.

@mattbrowne is right!

@Ron_C say what, MattBrowne right….naw, just a rumor around town! loll

@BoBo1946 yeah, I have been, occasionally known to agree with Mr. Browne.

3,000 years from now we will be seen as archaic savages.

Just as we see civilization of 3,000 years ago.

@ChazMaz maybe so, maybe so.

But if you read about some of the Roman civilization around the time of Pompeii and Herculaneum (and the artifacts and evidence of ‘daily living’ that was frozen in time by the ash from Mt. Etna’s eruption) you may have to revise your opinion of what “archaic savagery” looked like. A lot like our own, in fact, without electronics and the internal combustion engine.

@CyanoticWasp – Good point. “I looked a lot like our own.”

But was not.

@ChazMaz, @CyanoticWasp
Savagery of 3000 years ago still exists today. It has to do with the health of a community, not the time it exists in. What that fact may cause you to question is whether our use of technology today is as much of an advancement as it should be.

As far as I can tell kindness is a relatively modern development/invention – and should be encouraged !
If we seem more savage we’re just backsliding a little.

@slick44 In no way is the fact that we’re “technically” animals an excuse to go off and kill someone for electronics. Yes, we’re animals, yes, we know. But over 9,000 years ago we evolved into human beings and should act like them. You can forget about morals, about the law, if you want to. It’s not like people haven’t done it already. I just hope you’re clearly aware of how that story ends.