Social Question

dalepetrie's avatar

If your favorite restaurant constantly displayed political "humor" that espoused a belief system completely opposite of yours, would you continue to give them your business?

Asked by dalepetrie (18002points) May 7th, 2010

Here’s what I’m talking about. Probably the best pizza I’ve ever encountered is a couple miles down the street from me. The restaurant has been there since well before I moved to town and is basically one of those fixtures of the community, it’s not going anywhere, in fact, they’ve actually started opening several new locations around the city in the past few years. And this place, I’d say on a busy Saturday night, they bring out 4 pizzas a minute, all night long, it can take an hour and a half for carry out or two hours to be seated. I have yet to meet a person who didn’t rank their pizza as among the absolute best they’d ever had once they tried it. And I’ve been going here about 16 years now, usually I’ll carry out.

Well, right around the time that Bush II invaded Iraq, I started to see political cartoons in the entryway, and they were all very pro Bush, pro war, pro everything I can’t stand. Later there was a labor dispute there and it was clear that the owner was trying to screw over his employees, even though his business must be incredibly profitable. Yet, I always see the same people working there and they are always very friendly to me, they know me by name, the people who give me my pizza always make me feel welcome.

But the entry way seems to get more and more hostile, and when Obama came around, the level of anti-Obama rhetoric just became shrill and offputting. Things like “a recession is when a neighbor loses his job, depression is when you lose yours and recovery is when Obama loses his.” Then last night there was one “joke” posted about Obama being given an “Indian” name which indicates a bird that’s so full of shit it can’t fly straight. That was right under a tome about how if you illegally cross the border in this country you get shot, in that one you get thrown in jail, but if you cross the border illegally in the US you get a job and welfare and a social security card and blah blah blah…all this misinformation basically.

So, I struggle with this, because I believe everyone has a right to his opinion, and has the right to express it. And though I, were I a business owner, would keep my politics outside of my business simply because I think it’s good practice not to alienate half of your customers, I respect his right to post whatever he believes in a place he owns and operates. The employees are nice to me, and even if I took away all my business (meaning I’d have to never have that great pizza again), and convinced all my liberal friends somehow to do the same, it’s not like it’s going to hurt this guy’s bottom line one little bit.

So, I’m just curious if I should continue to ignore it and try not to think about how my business is lining the pockets of a whacko right wing creep, or if I should be a small pebble in a huge pond and just do what is morally inoffensive? What would you do?

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52 Answers

chyna's avatar

I would probably stop patronizing the business. I had the same issue with my SIL. She sends every bad article, joke, picture of Obama that she can find to me in an email. She is very pro Bush and I never sent one political thing to her about Bush while he was in office. I delete all her emails without reading now. To me, enough is enough. I don’t want that kind of offensive political humor crammed down my throat.

Seaofclouds's avatar

For me, if I felt the way you did, I’d most likely stop going. For me, dining out is about the experience, not just the food. If walking in to the restaurant gave me feelings of displeasure, I wouldn’t go.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

The pebbles add up and eventually displace the pond. Take your business elsewhere and let the owner know why you’re doing it.

Dr_C's avatar

I go to restaurants for the food. The owner’s politics don’t bother or affect me in any way. Takng your patronage elsewhere is your choice and you don’t need a reason to do it.

marinelife's avatar

I agree with @stranger_in_a_strange_land. I would stop patronizing the place, and tell the owner why you are doing it. Perhaps ask him to remove the political commentary first.

wundayatta's avatar

Where I live, an owner posted this sign at the door to his steak shop: “No English, no service.” I have to say I’m glad it wasn’t a steak shop I patronized, because if it had been, I would have had to find a new one.

netgrrl's avatar

I had to make a choice like this recently. I always knew the owner was not a very nice guy, but after talking to some former employees & finding out just how racist he was, I just stopped going.

Seek's avatar

If I wanted to be preached at, I’d go to church. Mr. Pizzaman can stuff it.

wilma's avatar

If the man owns the business then it’s his right to have that junk on display. I don’t think it’s a good business practice and I might take my money elsewhere if there was an alternative place to get great pizza. I’m pretty sure I would never “dine-in” that restaurant.
I have to say that I have seen the reverse political propaganda as well, and for both sides it is just as much a turnoff to business.
I think that if a business person wants a diverse clientele, then they will keep politics and religion out of the workplace.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@wilma Exactly. Mixing religion and politics with business is a sure way to hurt your business.

Seek's avatar

Gah, too late to edit. Oh well, second answer it is:

I also make a point to not hire businesses that advertise themselves as any particular religion. There’s an air-conditioning company in the area that hangs billboards everywhere saying “Serving CHRIST and you!”

Three things:
1. Why are we shouting the word “Christ”?
2. Much like I’m not roped in by local businesses putting the owner’s semi-humanoid babies in television commercials, I don’t immediately equate proclaimed Christianity with good service.
3. So, I already know my bill is going to be at least 10% higher than your competitor, just to ensure your tithes don’t cut into your profit.

syz's avatar

Ack. I recently ate in a hotel restaurant in a small town (it was pretty much the only thing open, so I didn’t have much choice). Just inside the front door were two stone tablets with the 10 commandants, each menu section was headed with a piece of scripture, and the walls were covered in religious homilies (“Prayers go up, gifts come down”). I twitched all the way through the meal. If I’m ever in that town again, I’ll just go hungry, thanks.

In the case of the pizza restaurant, I’m surprised that he’s doing well, because that seems like a pretty effin stupid business practice to me. I’d find good pizza somewhere else.

thriftymaid's avatar

Yep, if I liked the food.

MissA's avatar

When I cook, I do it with absolute love. My belief is that energy from the cook’s feelings affects those who consume that food. And the feelings, from those hopefully enjoying the food, affect how that food is assimilated in their body.

If I had such feelings that you describe while eating the pizza, I’d feel as if I were poisoning myself. My choice would be to either find another pizza joint or talk with the owner and tell him of your plight.

My belief about such is the reason why I will not allow harsh talk at the table. Dining should be a time of sharing nourishment, gratitude and love. If that is not your experience…change it.

ubersiren's avatar

If it’s purely the religious/political propaganda, I wouldn’t mind it. That’s their bid-ness, but as long as it doesn’t interfere with their actual business, I don’t care. Chick-fil-a is known as an uber religious company, but as long as they keep their Jesus juice out of my lemonade, I don’t care. I will eat their food forever. Forever! Treating the employees poorly is a different issue. That’s business ethics and your dollar is perpetuating the bad behavior. Your dollar won’t help or hinder the hatred and ignorance in an individual.

Though, the things you’ve mentioned are a pretty harsh and very in-your-face. It wouldn’t so much bother me; I might try to get the food to go or something so I wouldn’t have to look at the junk. If it’s something you’re passionate about, it might be worth it to you to keep your money out of their pockets.

You’re right that everyone has a right to his opinion, but you don’t have to like it and you don’t have to do him any favors.

TexasDude's avatar

If you don’t agree with a business’s political stance, practices, treatment of employees, products, etc. then you stop patronizing them. That’s how the free market optimally works.

Personally, that sort of thing doesn’t bother me and I probably wouldn’t pay much attention to it, but like @ubersiren said, if it’s thrown in my face I’m going to take my business elsewhere. The restaurant has the right to espouse whatever political views they want, and you likewise have the right to get your pizza elsewhere. The choice is ultimately up to you.

poofandmook's avatar

Politics are something that will never be a happy medium. You will always have right and left wing zealots, respectively. If the guy was posting left-wing material about Dubya while he was still in office, would you honestly be asking this question?

Also, if it is always the same employees, then obviously he’s not screwing them, or they’re stupid enough to continue working there while he does. Not your problem.

janbb's avatar

It would be a struggle for me ‘cause I loves me some good pizza, but I think I would have to stop going there. If I were feeling brave, I would tell the owner why.

Trillian's avatar

I don’t generally even notice what is posted in the foyer. I feel more negatively to the general atmosphere when I’m sitting down so I avoid places where there is a “rushed” or “high energy” feeling, or a high traffic place that has people constantly brushing past my table. Also the in-your-face idea is irritating, so I’d probably avoid any place like what @syz was talking about. I know the kind of pizza you’re talking about, there was a place like that in Flint, MI that I remember fondly sometimes. I’d still eat there or get take out whether or not I agreed with the politics. They’d have to get up really early and try really hard to make me not go there if I still lived in that poor, dead town.

RedPowerLady's avatar

If you want an honest answer. I’d probably protest them for a week or two and then decide my desire for good food triumphs my disgust of them. I would then decide that they have the right to have their own beliefs and that is what makes living here great. Haha.

Now if it was hate speech or something of that nature I would not go back. I have real passion for that cause so know my hunger for good food would not triumph me in this circumstance.

gemiwing's avatar

I would waffle a bit but eventually I would stop going. They wouldn’t likely respect my views yet they are more than happy to take my money. Well, that door swings both ways doesn’t it?

In my business we never had a political sign up- ever. All our customers were equal and all were to be respected. Period. If an employee asked if they could hang something potentially polarizing I told them no- but they were free to run for public office.

I have to wonder how little power they feel they have over their personal life, and living by example, when they need to resort to posting such hatred in their business. And yes, I felt the same way when people had anti-Bush propaganda up. It’s just not a smart business move.

Trillian's avatar

What @RedPowerLady said. There are some things that I cannot countenance, and hate mongering is one of them.

Val123's avatar

You can live without the pizza. If I were you, I’d stop going there, but I’d also send them a note letting them know you’re not coming anymore, and why. And then I’d get on Fluther and have everyone HERE send a note to the guys saying the same thing!!!

It’s one thing to have political viewpoints. But this insane Obama-hating is downright idiocy. How come no one makes a huge deal, and give Obama the credit, about the fact that employment increased by 270,000 in March, the highest increase in four years! The economy is on it’s way up! But Obama-haters conveniently ignore all of that.

alive's avatar

if it was me, i would probably avoid it most of the time, but still get pizza from there when i was really craving it. i would also rant and rave about it to my friends if they invited me to go eat there with them… but still go with them anyways, we all have to make some compromises

wilma's avatar

I agree with what @poofandmook said: “You will always have right and left wing zealots, respectively. If the guy was posting left-wing material about Dubya while he was still in office, would you honestly be asking this question?”
Some folks only get riled up if it’s against their view and are pleased about it if they agree with the propaganda that is on put up for the public to see.
I think the best approach business -wise is to not have any of it.

Val123's avatar

@wilma I can’t speak for everyone else, but to me, hitting below the belt riles me up, even if it’s done by my own side against those I disagree with. It’s cheap. It’s a last resort when you really don’t have anything to truly complain about.

Jack79's avatar

I would certainly not like the people that much, and liking the people is a factor when it comes to picking a restaurant. Whether we like the same music or share the same political beliefs is of course important, but what it really boils down to is the food.

There is this wonderful guy, who’s been my friend for years, and he has a pizza place. But his pizza sucks and I never eat there. And there’s this nationalist, alcoholic pig who used to beat up his kids and had a grill, and I always used to go get steaks there because they were the best in town. Once alcohol took over however and his quality dropped to the local average (still good enough but not brilliant), I started eating at another place, where the food was just as good and the people were much nicer.

Dr_Lawrence's avatar

Any restaurant who serves up unpalatable or nauseating things in their restaurant loses me permanently as a client, no matter how tasty their food may be.

dalepetrie's avatar

I just wanted to stop in and thank everyone for the well thought out answers so far. I’m going to respond to some of it specifically, but i think I want to mull it over a bit and re-read a few of these and tackle that when I have time.

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

I’d stop going except for when I was really, insanely craving it.
There’s a reason “Rick’s CafĂ© AmĂ©ricain” was so popular – he made them leave the war outside.

YARNLADY's avatar

I would not continue to buy there.

alive's avatar

for those of you saying you wouldn’t go at all, i would just like to note that it is very possible you are going to restaurants and shopping in stores, and generally giving your money away to owners that are coming from a very different political view point than you. you just don’t know it.

(my reasoning here is that in general people that go to business school and own businesses believe in capitalism, free market etc.—-i know there are plenty of exceptions to the rule)

this pizza place that @dalepetrie is talking about is a little local place. the owners probably go into the location a whole lot more than, for example, the owner of chili’s goes into its locations. therefore you are more likely to be exposed to the owner’s personality/thoughts/beliefs etc.

i mean let’s be reasonable, you can minimize the frequency that you visit a certain place, but why cut it out unless you are really going to cut out EVERYTHING that is on the opposing ‘team’

its the same thing with wal mart. we all know that they are an ‘evil’ corp, treats workers badly etc. but they also are a major job supplier in the world market, and there are sometimes when you are up in the middle of the night no where else is open and you gotta go there…. and is going to target instead any better. no. is walgreen’s or csv any better. probably not…

janbb's avatar

My son quit a job at CVS when he was 16 because he couldn’t stand selling cigarettes to people all day.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@alive I think it just depends on the exact reason for not going. If it’s just because they support the “other team” then perhaps you (general you) should look at every business your show patronage to to see if they do as well. If it’s because you don’t like walking by the cartoons up at the door on your way in, that’s different.

YARNLADY's avatar

@alive The can believe anything they want, but to display it in their place of business is a form of proselytizing, and not acceptable. I will not patronize a business that tries to tell me what to believe.

poofandmook's avatar

I still wonder if this thread would be here if it was Liberal propaganda

dalepetrie's avatar

OK, time for me to chime in a little bit. I’ve thought about all of the things people have brought up and here’s some thoughts that led me to ask the question in the first place.

1) In my lifetime, even though the left has been “business-friendly”, the right has always been far friendlier.

2) One of the core “principles” of the right is self-reliance, and by that I mean that those on the right are far more likely to look at the world and say “making it is MY sole responsibility,” and thus they are more likely to be the ones who would take an entrepreneurial approach to life and start their own business….not to say that liberals don’t own businesses, plenty do, I just think the core mindset of conservatism makes people more likely to be willing to assume the level of risk required to reject the security of a regular job and take the risks to truly succeed or fail 100% on their own terms.

3) It has been my observation that business interests, though they always play both sides, tend to give more money to right leaning politicians than to left.

4) Ergo, it stands to reason that the majority of places where I spend my money are owned by people with whom I would have severe political disagreements.

So, I assume that were I to question the political views of the owners of every business at which I spend my money, there might well be a number of my “favorite” places where I would have a moral concern about frequenting.

Now clearly, when I ask myself what makes this different, it’s not simply that I “know” what the owner’s politics are, it’s that he so flagrantly exhibits his politics out in the open. Yet, why should that bother me? If I go into a business that has a great deal of liberal propaganda on display, I feel like this is my kind of people, my kind of business, a place I’m happy to frequent.

So at issue for me is, I believe you should keep controversial issues like politics and religion outside of your business, I certainly would do so if I ran a business, because I wouldn’t want anyone to feel unwelcome. But if anything, when I see political or religious rhetoric with which I agree in a place of business, I feel somehow more OK with that. And this makes me wonder how hypocritical I’m being here.

Then I consider that even though it would not be MY choice to put my political views on display were I to run a business, I do believe strongly in free speech, I believe it’s the business owner’s right to tell me verbally, in print or in any other manner what he believes, it’s his right to believe what he believes and to express that belief, and whether I like it is not a concern. I am against censorship in any form, even if I would rather not be subjected to the thing that would be censored. Censorship is not for me an issue of taste, it’s an issue of choice, I believe people should have the choice in what they choose to consider or not consider, but they should not have the choice as to the availability of points of view. All things should be out there for the taking, and nothing should be forced upon someone.

So, is this thrusting his views upon me? Well, I know when I go in there if there is something new posted on the wall, I’m going to find it politically ignorant, sophomoric and wrong headed, so really the choice is mine whether to read it or not. So again, where is the problem? Is it the lack of equal time? Should the owner also post anti-right rhetoric in the interest of equal time? Well, he’s a private citizen, he owns his business, it’s his choice what to post. There’s no law, nor should there be, saying that he has to remain neutral when dealing with the public. Yes, in my mind it’s good business, but it would be good business for the hippie coffee shops to take down the “legalize it” bumper stickers off the wall as well.

So I look at why I shop at ANY business. Basically, it’s a matter of self-interest…I want to purchase products and services that meet my needs (or desires more accurately) at prices I can afford to pay (or choose to pay more accurately). That’s it. This pizza meets a particular need/want for me, and the price is very fair in my estimation for what is delivered. It is a simple business transaction, and exchange of something I want (a great pizza) for something the business wants (money).

Ultimately though, I realize it’s my money, I can choose to spend it however I want and can refuse my business to anyone I don’t feel like giving my business to for whatever reason. For example, about 10 miles or so from my house, there is an appliance store which ALWAYS has some extremely religious proselytizing on its sign facing the highway…I’ve never set foot in the store, and I have no desire to do so. But of course there are several appliance stores with great prices and service far closer to me, so do I not give them my business because I really feel uncomfortable with a business trying to tell me how to live my life? (I do feel that.) Or do I not give them my business because it would be out of the way and inconvenient to do so?

Same with real estate agents who have the Jesus fish in their ads. Well, I would never call that guy, but I have a lot of choices, and if I ever need an agent, I’d go with the person who found us our house. So even though I find it distasteful that he mixes his religious views with business, that’s not the reason I’ve never called him. I went into a pawn shop once that had Fox News on the TV and Rush Limbaugh on the radio. I didn’t buy anything because I didn’t find anything to buy. I’ve never gone back, but I’m rarely in the area where that pawn shop is, and I just wasn’t impressed with their selection enough to make a special trip when there are nicer shops closer to my house. I remember all these things, these affronts to my sensibilities, I think of them as additional reasons not to give them my business, but I can’t honestly tell myself that I’d have given ANY of these people my business if they’d kept their views hidden.

So, I get down to it and I think, well, I get the product I want for a price I’m happy to pay, I am not rewarding the owner’s idiocy, I am rewarding his job well done (even if I don’t like his politics, OR his personality, he still makes a quality product and he earns the money I pay for it), he is not doing anything that is illegal or wrong, I am not forced to absorb his rantings (I choose to look at them KNOWING they will irritate me), I don’t feel he has no “right” to his opinions, the way he expresses him or anything else, and I have no idea if the second best pizza shop might be owned by someone twice as bad in my estimation.

Furthermore, to those who said it’s about all the small pebbles, I gotta tell you, I live in Minnesota, the only state that didn’t vote for Reagan in ‘84, we’re unabashedly liberal compared to a lot of the rest of the country (we may not be California or New York, but you know we’re going to be blue in the Presidential column time and again). The owner makes his views hard to ignore, and yet, I simply can’t imagine that a good share of his customers, probably more than half, are liberal and choose to ignore this aspect. I really can’t imagine any business being that busy if liberals in Minnesota refused to go there.

In other words, I don’t think there’s any way to wake people up to this, I think he’s made his views self evident, and I think most liberals have decided you take the good, you take the bad. And were I to stop going there, mount a viral campaign to boycott the restaurant, and write him a letter explaining how he lost my business of 16 years, I’m just thinking if his political views are important enough to him that he would risk offending patrons by putting them up, he not only expects, but accepts there is going to be some hate mail. I’d have a very hard time believing I’d be the only one to take this step, and I fail to see how it could do any good.

So, I get down to the nitty gritty and I ask myself, am I cutting off my nose to spite my face if I just stop going here. Let’s say I spend $150—$200 a year in carry out from this place, I’ve seen them pull that much in while I’ve been waiting for my pizza on a busy Saturday night.

In short, is a protest which has no purpose (what are my demands, after all, if I believe he has the right to express his views in a place he owns just as I have a right to ignore it) a protest worth mounting, when I would be the only one to bear a significant loss of something I enjoy. Is my concern really that the money is going to someone who might use it for purposes I wouldn’t approve of, when I know damn well that a good share of the money I spend goes for purposes I wouldn’t approve of (like my mortgage at Bank of America, I’m sure they have my best interests at heart, right?). And knowing that if he were displaying left wing rhetoric instead, I’d be more likely to think of it as my kind of place, am I not being a tad too hypocritical in even considering a one person (or more) boycott for doing something I believe is his full right to do anyway? If he’s doing nothing that I see as technically “wrong” and he is providing me with a quality product at a fair price, what moral high ground do I have to stand on in deciding to not frequent this place?

It would be one thing if I were not treated well or if I felt in some way unsafe in this place. I don’t fear that my car is going to be vandalized in the parking lot because it has Obama stickers on it, I don’t think I will ever be refused service or even spoken to rudely or even in an unfriendly manner by any of the employees, I don’t feel they will ever cheat me in any way, and it’s not as if the wait staff discusses politics with me….in fact, the only thing that “offends” not even me, but my sensibilities is something that I can choose to read or not read, which when I read I know full well before I even read it that my sensibilities will be offended. Nothing I do will change this person’s mind, nor will it change his way of conducting his business, and his decades long history of providing the best pizza there is at reasonable prices is going to hold far more weight than if the owner (who is never seen in the restaurant) is a grade A asshole.

So, by not going there, I have concerns about potentially being hypocritical and out of sync with my own value system. But by going there, I wonder if I’m being MORE hypocritical in choosing my own personal pleasure over my deeply held beliefs. Am I, if even in an immaterial way, supporting propaganda which is antithetical to my own beliefs, simply to enjoy a guilty pleasure? To what do I owe the greater moral responsibility, my adherence to my own set of values which says that all are entitled to the free expression of their opinions, or to my belief that if I in any way undermine my own values, I am complicit in their destruction? Yet in the pursuit of moral purity, when I know that the only difference between this business and many others is simply that I know that the politics of the owner are antithetical to my own. Does making a step like this morally obligate me to research the political views of all businesses which I frequent, or is ignorance a valid excuse? Is it a matter of the level or type of rhetoric (the type which your stupid, probably racist relative chooses to email you all the time even though they know you voted for Obama), is it a matter of the flaunting the views in what preferably would be a neutral environment? It seems that all potential paths are fraught with some degree of moral peril, as are all decisions one can make in life. How can I purely make the decision based not on what I “want” but one what is the most morally correct and least hypocritical/self-contradictory/self-defeating overall?

I guess I’m really kind of surprised at how almost unanimous it was that people said they would give up the pizza and not go there, and I guess what I’m looking for is a clear moral barometer to say that x is the path that most clearly reflects ALL of my values (not just my political beliefs) and is fraught with the least amount of moral difficulty.

I guess I’ll pose this to everyone who said they would not go here anymore. Would you ALSO refuse your business to an organization which proselytized its beliefs, if you AGREED with their beliefs? And if not, what makes it acceptable, not hypocritical, and in line with your total system of values to behave in this inconsistent manner?

poofandmook's avatar

Okay, well, look at this way. Let’s say that, hypothetically, every business in the United States was legally required to display their political stance in their window. “Liberal” “Conservative” whatever else there is; it’s 4:15am and I’m tired, just that, in the window.

Would you then stop going to every business that didn’t align their political beliefs to yours? What’s the difference between that guy and the other people who share his views? Not much, really.

And you did admit that if the materials posted were of a liberal viewpoint, you would think of it as your kind of place. So ultimately it’s not that he’s mixing politics in with business. It’s just that they’re not your politics.

Using what I said to begin with, if liberals then stopped using the services of the conservative-owned businesses, and vice versa, think what would happen then. And, let’s also assume that you could convince all the liberal customers this pizza guy has to stop going there. You said you’re in a blue state; that guy would probably go out of business, possibly lose his home and not be able to support his family.. not to mention the loss of employment for his staff. And why? Because he voted differently than you did in the last election? He’s not hurting anyone. Sticks and stones, after all.

So really, pizza is not politics, and politics are not pizza. Pizza is pizza. And if the pizza is good, why not eat it?

Seek's avatar

@poofandmook

There are businesses in my area that you might say promote a liberal agenda that I do frequent. Munchies 420 Cafe, for instance. Do I smoke weed? no. Do I think everyone has the right to do so? yes. Do I consider myself a political liberal? Sorta. Social liberal, fiscal conservative. Look up “Libertarian socialism”.

You can guess what sort of political leanings the owner of that place has, just by the name. They make no attempt to hide it.

However, unlike the above-mentioned pizza restaurant, Munchies 420 doesn’t have a bunch of angry signs, or proclaim “boo hoo, the government is ruining my life”. It says “Hey, if you’re stoned off your rocker, come here and I’ll make you a sammich with fried chicken, cheese sticks, french fries, and macaroni and cheese. And bring your friends, too. The more the merrier”. It’s about inclusion, not exclusion.

Be whatever political leaning you want, I don’t care. It’s the attitude with which you push it that’s important.

poofandmook's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr: All you’ve done now is make me hungry.

Really though, like @dalepetrie said, it’s not like they’re parading it in front of him. They’re posted, and he doesn’t have to look. I mean, if this pizza guy was posting images of a white supremacist nature like KKK or Nazi stuff, or something along those lines, then maybe that’s the time to stop frequenting. But I don’t think what the guy is posting is serious enough for that kind of action. He just has a different political stance. You can’t use the argument that he shouldn’t post the materials in his business, since @dalepetrie already admitted that if those materials were liberal-aligned, then he would be comfortable.

I think that once @dalepetrie admitted that, from what I could tell, he realized it was a double-standard. And just because this guy doesn’t like Obama, that doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the right to make a living.

wilma's avatar

@dalepetrie I think you have made the case for buying the pizza that you like and trying to ignore the posted politics that you don’t like.
You convinced me. (although I didn’t need much convincing,) As I said, I probably wouldn’t “dine in” but I would take out.

dalepetrie's avatar

Re: The level of severity, as pointed out by @poofandmook, sure it’s not like he’s posting KKK or Nazi stuff, but one example I’ll give from a while back, he had this cartoon that showed a couple guys standing in front of a judge who was pronouncing them married, and one of them pipes up, “we just came in here for a fishing license.” That and other things led me to conclude he was definitely against gay marriage, which I see as a civil rights issue and someone who rails against equal rights for all does offend me. But my brother and law and his boyfriend love the place as well, if they can ignore it, why can’t I?

janbb's avatar

@dalepetrie It might be interesting to get into a discussion with them about the issue.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@poofandmook I would only stop going if seeing all that stuff in the doorway ruined the experience for me. The way @dalepetrie described their feelings towards the place would make me not enjoy going into that place any longer. It’s not about the politics per se, just the feelings I had about the restaurant itself upon entering it. But then again, like I said earlier, dining out is about the experience to me, not just the food.

Seek's avatar

@poofandmook

Exactly. All it does is make you hungry – it doesn’t force you to debate whether marijuana should be legalised, or make you angry at “the system” for pushing smokers into hiding.

This pizza place throws very specific political agenda into your face, with the intent of insulting anyone who doesn’t feel the same way. Bad form.

poofandmook's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr: Sort of, yes. But they’re just posted cartoons or whatever. You don’t have to look at them. So I don’t see the big deal. You’re not going to change their minds, and they’re not going to change yours. You can stop frequenting that business, but a couple hundred dollars a year isn’t going to be missed a whole lot… no more than if, say, @dalepetrie were to move too far away to get pizza there anymore. So really, he’s not losing anything, and @dalepetrie would be stuck with mediocre pizza. And for what? Nobody’s mind was changed, and nobody’s agenda faltered. It serves no purpose.

And again, you could make the argument that if enough people stopped going there because of his views, then I go back to my previous point. Imagine what this country would be like if liberals and conservatives stuck to their own businesses.

YARNLADY's avatar

@poofandmook—Agreed, we don’t have to look, but for any business owner to think he has the right to try to tell me how to think is wrong. The dollar amount could very well add up, as people take responsibility for their own ideas. Public businesses have no business telling their customers how to think. What? He’s not telling me that – then why even post them?

P.S. What makes you think there isn’t already a lot of ‘sticking to their own kind’ going on? Isn’t that the whole purpose of making it clear what ‘your kind’ is?—

breedmitch's avatar

I know I’m late to this thread, but when I read the question my first thought was, “who are you? And what have you done with our dalepetrie?”

Because the dalepetrie I know and love would use the hour and a half to two hours to explain to everybody else in line exactly why everything in those hateful postings on the door is completely wrong. :)

dalepetrie's avatar

@breedmitch – if someone on HERE were to post what I’d seen, yes, but since I’m only describing them rather than displaying them, there’s nothing to respond to. Plus the point isn’t so much the content as it is the pushing their agenda in a very crass and unintelligent manner. I strive to be fair, and always say that everyone’s entitled to their opinion. If you present your mal-informed opinion as concrete fact, THAT’s when you’re gonna hear from me!

GracieT's avatar

My husband and I are members of an evangelical church. The church as a whole promotes learning and self determination, which is why we were first attracted to it. It is divided into smaller HomeChurches. When we lived in Dayton, Ohio, most of the people were politically Independent, with Democratic leanings, which we loved because they shared the beliefs. When we moved into Columbus, Ohio, the home of the church overall, we found that the members of our HomeChurch were mainly Republican. We just agreed not to discuss politics. I disagree with the restaurant displaying these items, and would seek other places. But as @stranger_in_a_strange_land first mentioned, tell the owner why you were leaving. I know that it may not seem to matter much at first, but if other people who agreed with you did the same, it would eventually hurt their bottom line!

GracieT's avatar

I have to mention that I AM SICK of biting my tongue when I talk to friends, though. Most of them are right wing, or like a good friend vote concerning 1 issue- abortion. Which is funny, early Christians actually supported abortion. Anyway, I am sick of biting my tongue.

janbb's avatar

@GracieT That must be very hard. I choose my friends based on their agreement with my positions. Not really – but it does seem to fall out that way.

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