General Question

CaptainHarley's avatar

Is illegal immigration a threat to national security?

Asked by CaptainHarley (22414points) May 21st, 2010

Take a look at this video and then tell us what you think. If you find that illegal immigration is a threat, then what can we do about it?

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/23438021/index.html

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

49 Answers

mrentropy's avatar

I don’t think I need to watch a video to know that if someone gets into the country, like a terrorist, without the authorities knowing about it then it would be a threat to national security. Probably more of a threat than a mom walking onto a plane with a bottle of breast milk.

Facade's avatar

Most things are a threat to national security.

missingbite's avatar

Just the fact that we have what amounts to open boarders means we have a problem. If migrant workers looking for work can get across by the thousands, a terrorist can get across with a biological weapon just as easy.

CMaz's avatar

Easier then flying a jet into a building.

ragingloli's avatar

Civil rights and personal freedom are a threat to national security, too. If you want maximum national security, you have to becoma an authoritarian dictatorship with comprehensive surveillance of everyone living in the US.

lucillelucillelucille's avatar

If you don’t control your borders,then you don’t have a country.

aprilsimnel's avatar

Question everything. Even mainstream media reports. Not saying that this report isn’t true, but to recognize that anything anyone in corporate, government or media says is usually some sort of propaganda based on an agenda you may not be privy to, no matter if the source is conservative or liberal. Certainly the government (at least the bureaucrats therein) have known this has been happening for a long time, so this goes beyond the partisan bickering of the Republocrats. Why wasn’t this information out years ago?

And that ties in still with my earlier question about why haven’t the governments of these other countries not fixed their internal shit so that their peoples don’t need to cross our borders? If there are terrorists sneaking over the border with poor people looking for work, then they are apparently taking advantage of being brown-skinned to blend in, as horrible as that sounds. And I’m the last person on earth who wants to think this way, as I am brown and taken for Hispanic or Middle Eastern often! Maybe I’m being racist here, I don’t know. But someone (or a number of someones) somewhere high up must be profiting from the current arrangements, where terrorists infiltrating this way will just have to be collateral damage. Who?

Hell, I’m just suspicious, period.

mattbrowne's avatar

Legal immigration can lead to threats too. Some radicals have gotten US citizenship.

marinelife's avatar

No. The man who placed the bomb SUV in Times Square was an American citizen. Timothy McVeigh was not even an immigrant.

missingbite's avatar

@marinelife You are correct about Timothy McVeigh. There are quacks in all facets of life. To be totally honest and no spin, let’s call the NYC Subway terror suspect what he is. A Pakistani born person who came to our country, was put on a watch list, got married and became a citizen. Attempted to bomb NYC but was totally ignorant in his approach. Bought a one way ticket out of the country, within hours of trying to travel, paid cash and walked through security without even being questioned. I would call him a citizen in the loosest definition of the term. He was a total breakdown in our countries ability to connect the dots and keep us safe.

aprilsimnel's avatar

Anyone of any shade from any nation with any beef and the resources and brain power to do so can do anything destructive anywhere at any time for any reason, whether or not the general populace would consider the reason legitimate. Even totalitarian regimes can’t escape the murderous acts of people who are hell-bent on being aggressive and it has been ever thus. So now what?

CMaz's avatar

Less is better then more.

tinyfaery's avatar

Sure. However, the biggest threat is America’s imperialist policies that keeps certain nations is power and allows the rest to squander in war and poverty.

Lve's avatar

How does one define the concept of “national security’ anyway? I always have a hard time understanding just how something can make a country more secure or less secure, like a zero-sum game. It all depends on perceptions.
On a personal level, there are a lot of threats to one’s security, that is just inherent to living in society with other people. So I guess hypothetically speaking, illegal immigration could contribute to that. But as others have pointed out, the biggest threat might as well be the person living next door to you.

CMaz's avatar

“the biggest threat might as well be the person living next door to you.”

Reason for a door lock.

dpworkin's avatar

You can always rationalize self-interest and xenophobia.

john65pennington's avatar

Yes. so many illegal immigrants have used fraud identification papers, that we really do not know is and is not a terrorist. no one has really given this a thought.

mattbrowne's avatar

The best door lock is better international policies and business practices that will make potential immigrants want to stay in their home countries. It’s absurd that we expect super-cheap imported goods that cannot sustain farmers or workers producing them.

People who can afford it, but still don’t buy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Trade_Certified

products while wanting to shut down immigration – sorry to say this – appear to be a bit hypocritical.

Do we really make sure Colombian farmers get a decent life when we buy their coffee? Or does most of the price we pay end up as fat bonuses of coffee trading CEOs who are eager to buy their 4th yacht?

Consumers do have a huge power. It’s time to use it. NGOs and activists know how. Then immigration will slow down. Normally people love their home country, their friends and family, their culture. They try to leave when they get desperate.

CaptainHarley's avatar

I suppose I need to stress this one last time: there is a VAST difference between wanting to
“shut down immigration,” and wanting it done according to law! In this Country, one of the few things most of us have in common is a comittment to the “Rule of Law.” This means that, regardless of our differences, we still agree that everyone should be equal before the law. By entering the USA illegally ( i.e. without following the legal immigration process ), people are beginning a new life by breaking the law of the Country they have chosen to live/work in. This does not bode well for future adherence to the law. Thus they are refusing to sumbit to the Rule of Law which is one of the few things holding us together.

What is so difficult to understand about this???

mattbrowne's avatar

It’s not difficult to understand. Using heroin or meth means breaking the law too, because they are illegal drugs. The question is, what strategies make sense so that the laws don’t get broken so often. For example raising kids that reject to use dangerous drugs, because they found better ways to find pleasure and fullfilment in life. For example Colombian farmers getting their fair share when coffee is sold. What is so difficult to understand about this?

CaptainHarley's avatar

@mattbrowne

Nothing, but what does it have to do with illegal aliens??

mattbrowne's avatar

We should focus on solutions, not problems.

CMaz's avatar

There is always a price to be paid.

CaptainHarley's avatar

The solution is relatively easy. Just pass a law that creates very stiff fines and penalties for hiring illegal aliens; I’d say $200,000 and a year in jail for the first offense should do the trick. That, however, is unlikely to happen since it’s politically suicidal to even suggest such a thing.

mattbrowne's avatar

That’s treating the symptoms and not the cause.

CMaz's avatar

“That’s treating the symptoms and not the cause.”

Lets look at his with medical terminology.
Treating the symptom is the first step. Second step, develop some form of “vaccine” or barrier, in this case, to prevent it from coming into the system again.

During that process, we try to figure out where it comes from in order to possibly “eradicate” or avoid contact with it.

Since we don’t have the resource to lift a third world country up. “Finding a cure” to the root of the problem.
Prevention is the only possible solution. Starting with step #1.

ragingloli's avatar

I say any country that has the resources to wage two simultaneous wars for 8+ years also has the resources to lift a neigbouring 3rd world country up. West Germany did it with East Germany. It is not a matter of resources, you have plenty of those, it is a matter of willingness and competence and that is where your problems lie.

CMaz's avatar

Good point.

1.Eradicate war.
2.Solve poverty in the US
3. Free health-care for all American Citizens
4. Financially stabilized education system
5. Elimination of credit debt
6. Greatly lower carbon footprint and pollution in general.

Then:
7. Help out less fortunate countries.

@ragingloli – East and West Germany is not a good example.

mattbrowne's avatar

@ChazMaz – I think the better approach is to tackle all 7 issues more or less at the same time.

ragingloli's avatar

@ChazMaz
It is. Reunification came with the collapse of basically the entire economy in East Germany and millions of suddenly unemployed people that had to be taken care of. Infrastructure was shabby, that includes roads, rails, plumbing, and powerlines which all had to be expensively modernised including an expansion of the Autobahns and the public rail system. Countless appartment blocks had to be modernised and renovated. The school system had to be restructured. Bringing the east up to speed was a tremendous endeavour, both costly and time consuming and it took nearly 2 decades for new industries to settle in the east. It is absolutely a good example.

CMaz's avatar

East Germany was not a “tribal” culture struggling to bring itself up from a backwater society.

They were a country in dissaray. Having a broken down infrastructure, but centuries ahead of Mexico..
Mexico, for the most part is uneducated with no infrastructure. Never having one.

And lets say we adopt Mexico. So now we move the border to south America. Or do we include South America too.

Also East Germany’s population is 16 Million. We have more then that in Mexican population already in the country.
Mexico is 111 million.

@mattbrowne – Yep. Pretty much what we are doing.

ragingloli's avatar

@ChazMaz
Look at it in perspective. West germany had about 60 million inhabitants, you have 300 million, then there is the fact that you have no universal healthcare and only rudimentary welfare.
And you would not have to adopt them. You could limit yourself to intellectual support, help them with analysing their problems and work out solutions. An outside perspective can really help a lot. Maybe help them get cheap loans from you and other neighbouring countries in South America. I am pretty sure South American countries also get their fair share of mexican refugees and would welcome a chance for a permanent solution. You could even use your powerful position in the UN to get international help on board.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@mattbrowne

A symptom? Really?? How so?

dealrrr's avatar

not in the sense of violence, but yes it causes all kinds of national problems. for instance overcrowding of public schools, loss of employment for nationals, strain on welfare system, non-english language businesses, all because some farmer wants to save a few bucks.

mattbrowne's avatar

@ChazMaz – Germany also sponsors development in Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Romania and Bulgaria. Seriously, I don’t see why the US and Canada cannot adopt a similar model to support Mexico and all these small central American countries. A growing middle class will eventually buy American high-tech products.

missingbite's avatar

@mattbrowne The main reason it is so difficult is the corrupt Mexican Government. We have NAFTA which puts American and other countries companies in Mexico. The intent was to raise the working class in Mexico. Corruption from the Government there is a major problem. I’m sure there is corruption in the countries that Germany is trying to help. Where do we draw the line?

mattbrowne's avatar

@CaptainHarley – Illegal integration is a symptom. Most people on this planet love their country, their home, their relatives and their friends. The root cause is desperation, the complete loss of hope for a better life. The solution cannot be that all Latin Americans move to the US or that all Africans move to Europe. The solution must be a good reason for most wanting to stay and build a better future. The question is has the developed world done enough? I think many NGOs are doing a wonderful job and I really admire people getting involved. It also was a very smart move to award the Nobel Peace Prize to Muhammad Yunus and his Grameen Bank for inventing the concept of microcredits. Concepts like these will help Mexicans stay in Mexico. Tougher immigration laws alone won’t. And NAFTA is not enough, @missingbite.

So if you really want to do something against illegal immigration, here’s one thing you can do:

http://www.kiva.org

It works. All the money I lent came back to me. Then I search for new microcredit applicants. It’s very easy.

missingbite's avatar

Again. If the country you are trying to help is corrupt, it won’t work. Mexico needs to take care of itself first. Then, rest of the world can help. In your own words, it’s desperation. Why are they so desperate if their own government can’t help (or won’t) how can and should we?

mattbrowne's avatar

@missingbite – You are referring to the chicken and egg dilemma. If we just wait, we will wait forever. We need to get involved while at the same time Mexicans also need to take care of themselves.

missingbite's avatar

@mattbrowne I agree. I may not be conveying my ideas well, but I agree. I am not saying we should just leave them alone. We need to secure our borders first and foremost. Then we need to solve the issue of 15 to 30 million illegals already here. We can’t just make them citizens overnight. Talk about rewarding bad behavior. Once we have that situation under control we can work on a real immigration policy. Only if the Mexican government will stop being so damn corrupt. We can work on all these problems at the same time but must have priorities.

BTW, are you aware that the richest man in the WORLD for the last three years is a Mexican? There is money in Mexico, it’s only a third world county because the powers that be want it that way.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@missingbite

At last! Logic and reason! : )

CaptainHarley's avatar

Why Arizona Immigration Law?

The following information IS compiled from Federal Bureau of Investigation
and Department of Homeland Security reports:

* 83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegal aliens.

* 86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegal aliens.

* 75% of those on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix and
Albuquerque are illegal aliens.

* 24.9% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican
nationals

* 40.1% of all inmates in Arizona detention centers are Mexican nationals

* 48.2% of all inmates in New Mexico detention centers are Mexican
nationals

* 29% (630,000) convicted illegal alien felons f ill our state and federal
prisons at a cost of $1.6 billion annually

* 53% plus of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New
Mexico, Nevada, Arizona and Texas are perpetrated by illegal aliens.

* 50% plus of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens

* 71% plus of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico,
Arizona, Nevada and California were stolen by Illegal aliens or “transport
coyotes”.

* 47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance
and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegal aliens.

* 63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance
and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegal aliens

* 66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance
and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66% 98% are illegal aliens.

* 380,000 plus “anchor babies” were born in the US to illegal alien
parents in just one year, making 380,000 babies automatically US citizens.

* 97.2% of all costs incurred from those births were paid by the American
taxpayer

dpworkin's avatar

What is your citation for that blast of bullshit?

ragingloli's avatar

In every election in the former GDR, at least 95% of citizens freely voted for the SED.

missingbite's avatar

@dpworkin That “blast of bullshit” was cited in his second sentence.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@dpworkin

What’s with the hostility? Have I borrowed something of yours that you want back? Do I owe you money from years ago, or something?

dpworkin's avatar

Who “gathered” it, and where are the original reports available to be examined? I’m not hostile to you, I’m hostile to misinformation.

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