Why should the "manner" of answering a question effect moderation?

:-/ this isn’t the general section is it…

@dpworkin spilkes?

Sometimes the way this place is run makes me physically ill. What a waste.

@dpworkin is there a better for what this is?

One would hope.

Wait, so because two of your quips got modded, someone is deciding to be an asshole today? In case you hadn’t noticed, that question was in the general section and your first removed quip was unhelpful and your second was off-topic.

I thought the first quip was both helpful and on topic. The second quip was ill-advised.

Step into the shoes of the asker. It was hardly helpful (especially to them).

Well there we disagree, and therein lies the problem with inflexible moderation.

Just for clarification, what was the first quip that got modded?

If you’re going to complain about the moderation, maybe you should start your own site, set up your own rules and run it in a way that wont make you “physically ill”. Or you can just get over it. Rules are rules.

You had 2 comments removed, and you decided to ask a question about it? Sounds like it’s someone else who’s trigger happy today, IMO.

@dpworkin – Oooooooh! You’re on your way to being as despised on Fluther as I am right now :-p

@bob_ You may be right.

@dpworkin When the asker stated why they wanted to skip the Old Testament, the comment “Why not just skip the whole fuckin thing?” is not helpful. Sorry.

@richardhenry – But he should still have the right to say it.

@pdworkin ^^You said that? Wow, why didn’t you just skip the question if you couldn’t help direct them to a book of the bible.

@richardhenry I thought it was good advice. Maybe it would be best if you deleted this thread. I’m sorry I was irritable enough to have asked the question.

I wonder why no one has asked the question f whether maybe someone who didn’t fid the comments helpful may have flagged them.

@HungryGuy: Anyone on this site has the right to say anything. The mods have as much a right to remove it if it violates the guidelines.

This site isn’t about freedom of speech. It is part of the compass of this site that comments be helpful.
Yes, I make a lot of flip comments here, but I also try to be helpful. Telling someone to skip reading the Bible isn’t funny or helpful.
So ask not for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee.

@dpworkin Methinks your grouch-level is set to “high” today… While the actual ‘advice’ you were attempting to give was indeed sound (“Skipping the Old Testament is a bad idea.”), the manner in which you gave it was not helpful.

@augustlan On the other hand, it was in @dpworkin ‘s inimitable voice.

Ooh. I just saw the new answer you gave. Much better!

I agree, @augustlan, and as I previously said to @richardhenry when I asked him to remove this thread, I was being overly irritable. I have answered the question again in a different “manner”.

Ah, see, that makes more sense. I thought the answer was akin to, “Don’t bother reading the bible at all.”

I think this thread is instructional, but if you’d like to change the wording to be less inflammatory, I’d be happy to send it back to you for editing.

OK, that sounds good.

Done. This is now an edited version of this question.

Oh I love it when these things end beautifully xxx

@dpworkin – I liked the first version of the question better :-p

@HungryGuy So did I. So did @janbb. It was pithier. And no one has really addressed why the “manner” of answering should be subject to moderation.

@dpworkin I respectfully submit that the problem with the quip might have been as @KatawaGrey suggests that some people didn’t get what you meant by the way you worded it.

@dpworkin – I agree. I don’t think the “manner” should be subject to moderation. If an answer is within the guidelines, the mods shouldn’t censor it because they don’t like your tone of voice or something. That’s what I’ve been grumbling about all along, but everybody just defends the status quo and says, “The mods have the right to remove anything that violates the guidelines.” I.e., nobody pays attention to what I’m saying.

Yes, I agree, I thought as @KatawaGrey thought, you meant “don’t bother reading the bible at all.” Forgive my misinterpretation.

@dpworkin Obviously I also misunderstood the statement. I am glad that didn’t refect your views.

You don’t have to jump off a bridge to know how it’s going to end.

I agree with @dpworking on this one. It has nothing to do with whether I agree with him…I think he should have the right to answer to what the question means to him. Unless it’s a threat for bodily harm to a person, I say let it go. This is the real world and people ought to be able to take it.

Other flutherers will decide whether someone will be tolerated or ostracized. Even though the moderators that I’ve come in contact with are extremely fair-minded…I would have to take the other side on this one.

@MissA take into account a great majority of comments that get moderated are removed because one or more users flag them. It’s a bit premature to blame moderation for the removal of a post when it may have been a collective request made by the users and not the moderators based on the merits of the post.

Is it a standard practice to tell someone who disapproves of a rule here to tell them to go make their own website? I’ve seen this advice given a number of times by a number of people and it always seems to get a lot of lurve. Is no dissidence tolerated?

@13thpagoda Great point.

@dpworkin Well, you got a whole buncha mods and vets in one thread – there’s that to be said. Personally, I like “Why not just skip the whole fuckin thing?” , especially after you offered Psalms? initially. However, here’s my 10 agorot; they work hard, our volunteer mods, and we don’t make it easy on ‘em. The General is for real info, the Social is for laughs. Those who want real info but don’t mind going off-topic, or sarcasm (wit? peut etre) – choose to ask in Social. Those who want answers only and have no sense of humour – ask in General. If your grumpy-meter is set to high that day – I’d avoid the General questions altogether. The Removed by Fluther is set to to kill in General, and they aint afraid to use it.

I also agree with @bob_ a little: a couple of modded remarks when you know they would be modded anyway – and a question about it? A bisele overkill. But I loved the resulting thread – and I love you buncha nuts. Best community on the web, bar none. Starting with @dpworkin.

The manner in which an answer is worded matters because it says so right there in the guidelines:

“Responses must be respectful.”

I am not religious, and I have a rather thick skin, but I think most people would agree that “skip the whole fuckin thing” is not a respectful answer (and if one were inclined to apply all the guidelines, it should be modded because it is also not spelled correctly).

As @rangerr said, those are the rules, and they should be followed. Are they harsh? I would not say so. In fact, I think they are quite reasonable. Are they always evenly applied? No, and they cannot be, for the simple reason that moderators are human, and in any decision they make there will be an element of personal judgement. I, for one, think this has improved over time, but I am sure that those on the receiving end of a modding will not be all that happy about it. Such is life. You cannot please everybody all the time.

I agree with @13thpagoda that it does seem like every time someone complains about the rules, he or she will get a “well, if you don’t like it, you can quit and make your own site” response. Again, this is an area where I think things are much better than before (though that might be because that happens a lot more when there’s a migration from a site that goes down). Furthermore, the way this question was originally worded did not really invite to an honest debate about the rules, to say the least. Inflammatory questions will get people fired up.

Now, if the question is “why should answers be worded in a respectful manner?”, I would say that it is not too much to ask people to be polite to one another on an Internet forum. Yes, as @MissA said this is the real world and people should not be expecting kind, sweet words in every answer, but they also should not be subject to rudeness, no matter what. Some have said that this applies especially in the case of new users, because they would be more likely to quit after someone says something mean to them, but I think that we all deserve to be treated with respect. Is it really all that much to ask? Sure it is a nasty world out there, but this is a social site, where people come to get answers and socialize.

Do all questions deserve thoughtful answers? No. Some questions are downright dumb. Most will get modded, but some will survive (again, because there is an element of personal judgement in the modding process). Take the questions that ask about an illness or a potential pregnancy. If you ask me, all those questions should be immediately removed, and the people asking them should get a message advising them to go to a doctor. If, however, one of such questions makes the cut, would it be appropriate to say “You should just fucking go to a doctor, dude”? Wouldn’t it be more helpful to say “I understand you’re worried about your condition, but we have no way of telling you what you have. You should go to a doctor right away”?

Lastly (takes a deep breath), written communication has its limits. We cannot always tell when you are being sarcastic, or if you are saying something “tongue-in-cheek”.

Now, Social is a whole different thing. In Social y’all can go make me a sandwich. Easy on the lettuce.

I think we all need to ask ourselves “What would Bendrew say?”.

Has anyone ever read a rude or disrespectful comment/answer from these two?

It’s their site. We could learn a thing or two from them.

@bob_ GA!

@13thpagoda When people don’t want to follow the rules, why would they be encouraged to stay here?

I, personally, salute @bob_.

@zenele How about less salutation and more sandwich-making, please?

(^ see guys? Manners.)

BLT okay? Light on the mayo?

@zenele Pastrami. Don’t be stingy with the mayo.

Pastrami it is my friend.

@zenele Dude! :D

Yeah it was the nicest of the pics I sifted through.

@dpworkin maybe it wasn’t what you said, but how you said it. I can’t imagine anyone skipping the old testament either. Most of the good stuff is in there.

Of course its all different stuff from wildly different sources cobbled together in the early middle ages so seems one might feel free to pick and choose rather than start on page 1

@YARNLADY—”You don’t have to jump off a bridge to know how it’s going to end.”

Sure you do. Yes, most of the people who jump off the Golden Gate Bridge die. But there have been survivors. Just sayin’.

—Hey, I think i am on the wrong thread. I’m on the bitchin thread, not the bible thread.
Oh well. Hi everybody. enjoy your sandwiches.—

I, too, would definitely like to see the end of responses like “Don’t like it? Leave.” That’s not very respectful, either.

If you don’t like it, Lisa…

I used to eat at an old-fashioned lunch counter on one side of a pharmacy that still had their original apothecary jars and such from long ago and far way! The neat element for me, was that everyone at that counter was a CHARACTER.

I was in my late 20s…but, the median age was probably late 60s, early 70s. Just enough time to properly steep oneself in a generous, interesting portion of life.

The beauty of it, for me, was the myriad of approaches to life.

There was a guy who incessantly talked about his kids when they were young, probably thirty years earlier. Once, he bought a new “4-holer” Buick at the same time his house was being painted. While he was at work one day, they painted his new car for him. Two-tone, no less. He told it as if it were yesterday…said he couldn’t get mad at them. After all, he said, they did it because they loved him and wanted the car to match the house.

I’ll never forget the day ol’ Gene was mad because the mustard wouldn’t come out of the squeezable jar. Quiet, quiet man. Always wanted to take me dancing. He squeezed that bottle with the lid still closed, until it burst and he was covered in yellow goo. Only time I ever saw him mad. We didn’t see him for weeks.

The pharmacist, who had the strangest answer to a plumbing problem…he stuffed paper towels down the drain and thought he would then pull them up! Well, you know the moral to that story.

There were about a dozen of these guys, including one who never cracked a smile, always seemed as if he was madder than a wet hen, had something sarcastic to say after EVERYthing else that was said. At least I ‘thought’ it was sarcastic. His favorite adjective was G-damned. Everyone was a bastard, even women.

I guess that, this being my first forum, I sort of likened the folks here to the lunch counter crew. Characters, loveable and entertaining, if you take the time to look deeply enough.

@MissA Are you saying you have to look really deeply at some of us? :-)

I like your analogy very much; suspect I’m Gene (damn that mustard jar!)

@janbb Cute. Thank you. I think you need to read several answers to all types of questions before you have any idea about the person commenting. And, by the way, I prefer to be in the company of non-homogenized people!

@breedmitch Ha!

I’m the paper towels guy.

@zenele I can ‘just’ tell, that isn’t so!

Loved the story.

@janbb She looked deeply into my eyes and saw the back of my head.

Thanks @zenele…HA!

I don’t know why, but it reminds me of the guy who told me he wasn’t bald…it’s just that 66.58% of his hair is clear!

@MissA Thanks for that. We try. And occasionally we are rude. Me, I don’t mind some colorful language. For me ‘skip the whole fuckin’ thing’ would have been informative. And some things will get modded and some that could be considered equally offensive won’t, because no one complained or they just got missed. Just like real life.

BTW I’m staking a second claim on ol’ Gene.

@anartist Does that mean you want to take me dancing…or, you like to mustard wrestle??

@MissA Is she trying to muscle in on my guy (or girl)? Or, even worse, my mustard.

@janbb Oh, Poupon it.

@MissA I’m going to dijon to poupon it, but when I get back, I’ll have a spicey retort.

@janbb Oh, go ahead and enjoy your retort first. Make it apple.

This could be the start of a beautiful friendship.

@janbb Are we talking ‘tort reform’?

Now you’re tortally off the topic.

@janbb And now, I’ll sink into the night…tortally wounded.

@MissA missed the dancing. Looks like it’s you and @janbb
No the mustard all over me is all me. Funny thing is my name means “grace”

@anartist My name means “messenger from heaven”...but, I don’t think the rest of me has caught on.

@MissA :-)

@dpworkin – The content of most of your answers is great and leaving out the salt should be no big deal. Salty language is a sign of violent communication. Do manners and etiquette really matter? I say, they do. Why? Because the way we treat others and their actions affect how people view us.

Besides, how can adults expect kids to say “please” and “thank you” if they think manners don’t matter. Adults should be role models in online forums as well. Especially when they are 30 or older. Some profanity might be okay when we’re joking in the social section. It’s not okay when there are serious issues and serious disagreements.

The helpful and honest part of answers will get overlooked because it’s the salty language that sticks out. It’s how our brains works. Amygdala to cortex: hello, danger, watch out, hey, attack, oh my, insult, no way…

That’s how I speak. I don’t come from the groves of academe; I come from the streets.

Fluther is not the streets. People can learn foreign languages at any age. People can learn “unsalted” language at any age. It takes an effort, yes. But it’s easier than understanding the complexity of evolution.

Are you asking me to withdraw myself from Fluther if I wish to continue to use my own natural voice?

@mattbrowne I think that one of the things that gives Fluther its flavor, so to speak, is the variety of voices – salty and sweet – we have here and that we are not here to be role models for children. I still think, as I wrote above, that it was not the language that @dpworkin used in his answer that caused it to be modded, but that his meaning was unclear and misinterpreted. I stay on Fluther for the people and their character and I would hate it if we had to speak in a homogenized, whitebread voice.

@janbb DITTO!!!! I too, and really would not enjoy an unsalted meal of Fluther-fish. Too bland.
Besides @dpworkin was one of the first two people I met on Fluther and I stayed, partly because of that.

@dpworkin – No, I want you to stay. You’re a very valuable member of this community! People adapt. We all get the hang of it eventually. And I’m not perfect either. Some of my comments sound condescending. I’m working on it. I’m also working on appearing less serious and more humorous at times. And I’m sure you can work on adopting a somewhat “less salty language”. Up to a point, at least. As @janbb pointed out, we also are who we are. And we should. Traits cannot be changed. But some of our behavior can. Especially when it’s about not hurting other people’s feelings. In the end, there’s always a compromise. I totally agree that we should not have to speak in a homogenized, whitebread voice.

@dpworkin salty maybe, but from the streets? Like Sylvester Stallone, maybe?

I grew up on the streets and in institutions. Not as romantic as Stallone.

@dpworkin that’s image. He grew up in Potomac MD.

Chico Hopps took me in when I was 17, but I had been banging around since I was 13.

Well, Walter and Helen. I don’t know if you knew Helen, his wife.

@dpworkin never met her, but I am so happy for you that fate took that course.

I miss him. And Hal spends most of his time in France now, and Dennis just died, and Kesey is dead, and so I really don’t see or talk to anyone any more. Sad.

New life, new people. Vacation in France once your new career is started?
Pic for you if you want it
Walter,70s

Hah! Thanks! I still have my lapel button that says “Walter Hopps will be here in 20 minutes”!

Nina Osnos made them. I don’t have one now. oh well. I don’t have my zap comix either.
BTW that was my art show he was standing in front of. His marathon was the next MOTA event.

Nina Osnos made the second round. Anne Ferrier made the very first ones, back in Pasadena.

oh.

(I have the snobby one and the DC one, of course.)

:-) that’s what happens when you got connections.