Seriously. Why is discussing intelligence taboo?

Yes and no.

It is something for others to discover, not flaunt.

It is not universally a taboo (we need a synonym for that, like forbidden, or unacceptable). Neither is discussing money or penis sizes.

You simply need to choose your audience or interlocutor carefully.

I am intelligent in some areas, I don’t have a penis and I have been a conservative spender and saver so am financially comfortable. Spending money has never been a hobby or entertainment for me.

How is it taboo; I dont exactly get how we’re referring to intelligence?? Can you describe or exemplify a situation in which such would be a taboo discussion?

You can’t really measure solid intelligence as there are many different fields of intelligence you can take IQ scores, I suppose, but even then those are exactly what they are – IQ scores with many contributing variables. Whereas with penis size or wealth – there are factual, measurable, solid numbers at stake. It’s a very loose debate, in my opinion: I suppose you could argue that whoever scored higher on the physics exam is the smarter student, but one of the contributing variables may be that the highest scoring student is a physics major in a class for non-physics majors.

You could have one student that aces the English paper but fails the physics exam and another student that aces the Physics exam but can barely form a sentence. I would say one has a higher English/grammar intelligence and another has a higher Physics/Mathematical intelligence (Even then, I dont see how any of this is taboo).

I discuss it when it comes up in conversation.

It’s not taboo. It seems to me that people do it all the time. Parents discuss their children’s intelligence. Students compare their scores with each other. Everyone knows the pecking order, smarts-wise. There are even clubs that allow people who score well on intelligence tests to broadcast their scores.

Most of these kinds of comparisons are done with sideways glances. People with money who want others to know they have money will advertise it by buying expensive cars, houses and gewgaws. People with smarts who want to advertise it will join Mensa or deliberately use big words in conversation or deliberately talk about esoteric stuff at times when it isn’t really appropriate.

It’s always annoyed me when people use big words incorrectly. Sometimes you can see they found one word that is close to another word. The mistake makes sense. But other times it is clear they have no idea what the word means and are just trying to impress. That kind of behavior does just be opposite.

I don’t think it’s polite to compare penis sizes in public, either overtly or covertly. Money and intelligence are both replacements for penis size, at least among men. I see men doing these comparisons all the time. I avoid such situations, but sometimes you find yourself there with no easy way to back out.

People also call this bragging, which, of course, is unbecoming. It’s also stupid. Actions speak louder than words, I believe. A person who uses words in the place of actions is probably not at all what he or she is advertising.

In the end, I think it is merely impolite to brag, no matter what you are bragging about. It is also unwise. But it is not taboo.

Continuous effort, not strength or intelligence, is the key to unlocking our potential.

@ucme Is that the Little-Engine-That-Could paradigm?

Nah, Churchill.

I don’t think it’s taboo; I think it’s douchey to brag about it—and that goes for more than just intelligence. It would be a drag to hear someone talking about how well they do this and how many times they can do that, and it is the same case for intelligence.

@jfos I think you’re highlighting hyper-ego, though. As you mention, it’s douchey to brag about anything, intelligence is just one of those things.

It’s interesting, actually. I see a sibling question to the right that is really what I’m talking about. It says Why are you willing to say how intelligent you are? I think that really sums up what I’m asking here. It seems that for genuinely intelligent people to openly claim their intelligence (however they choose to “measure” it, be it an IQ test or just words like “smart” or “brilliant”.) is unacceptable or distasteful. Even if it’s done in an objective way. Is it boasting if it’s true and not said with the intention of insulting the other party/parties involved in the conversation? I get the impression it would be considered rude, even taboo, to say “Well, I know I’m a smart person…” I’m not talking about people that feel the need to really brag, of course blatantly bragging is rude, period.

I don’t even consider myself to be of exceptional intelligence by ANY stretch. I honestly wouldn’t even consider myself to be above average. So I’m not really talking about myself. Although, on more than one occasion in my life I’ve had someone accuse me of trying to make them feel stupid simply by being myself. It leads me to feel almost like it is a forbidden territory.

I ask really because someone else brought this up to me, and it made me think about it. What better place to come with a question like this than to fluther? :)

People will always draw their own conclusions no matter what you may say.

True. Showing is always better than telling.

@dpworkin I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.

@Disc2021 Actually I think what I’m doing is zooming out.

Why is it frowned upon to burn people’s socks for no reason? Well, it’s frowned upon to burn any of people’s clothes for no reason.

@jfos Right, I’m agreeing with you.

I don’t see it as a taboo, but I don’t generally see the need to discuss my own intelligence just like I generally wouldn’t discuss my height. Either it’s apparent or it’s not. If there is a reason to discuss it, I will.

Most people shy away from any behaviour or speech that might “cause” others to feel bad about themselves, even though it’s what that person already believes about themselves that controls how they feel with regard to others’ statements or behaviours.

I was taught as a kid that to be happy about and mention your good qualities was committing the sins of pride and vanity. I’m not sure why, now that I think about it, one is supposed to hide their light under a bushel. I can’t help if I have some qualities or abilities that others don’t or vice versa. It doesn’t hurt me that anyone else is more intelligent or better-looking or richer or whatever-ier than me. Their qualities have nothing to do with me.

So go ahead! Tell me how smart you are! :)

I’m sufficiently smart not to mention the unit of measurement when I say that the length of my penis is twelve.

”...in that it may stir up insecurities (unwarranted or otherwise) in someone involved in the discussion. It could easily be offensive.”

Good point, I think that is one reason why. Similar to how religious people don’t like being called out on their beliefs, they get embarrased, uncomfortable, angry etc.

@aprilsimnel You just reminded me of a teacher I had in one of the advanced classes in 8th grade who used to say to us: “You’re not going to walk around with your IQ taped to your forehead all your life!”

I’m starting to regret my choice to use the word “taboo” rather than “impolite” or “icky.” :)

@janbb Of course I agree, I don’t see any reason for IQ scores (etc) to pop into a conversation unless it’s pertinent. But in instances when there the subject does come up, is it really alright to admit that you believe you’re smart? Or would that really be bragging?

@aprilsimnel I already did. I am comfortable admitting that I am of average intelligence. ;) I kid, I kid. I agree with your observations about people avoiding topics that might unintentionally amplify someone’s insecurities. In no way am I saying I think that’s a bad thing, no sense in making others feel badly about themselves.

Just wanted to explore this a bit. :)

@Disc2021 Okay, the “though” confused me.

@ChazMaz Why isn’t it something for people to flaunt?

It’s taboo in our society because everyone is supposed to be equal, in many respects.

It really isn’t for you to say if you’re smart or not. If other people find you smart, that’s on them. If you think you’re smart, keep it to yourself. Let others figure it out. They may have a different opinion.

(The “you” here is not the OP, but the everybody you)

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I think what @ChazMaz is trying to say is that by displaying intelligence, others will perceive and maybe acknowledge how smart you are. That is, you should not be the one mentioning how smart you are. I’m only inferring, though.

@wundayatta lol, very sweet of you to clarify that. :)

@jfos what about instances where it may actually be a topic of conversation? Is it not a potential topic of conversation? <—That’s a genuine question, by the way, and not a challenge.

I would like to ask the same question as @Simone_De_Beauvoir. Although I understand not flaunting or boasting about ones intelligence, I do not understand why this is the case when people boast about many other achievements in life. A college degree, having a kid, getting a new car etc.

@jfos (Playing devil’s advocate here, I don’t care one way or another as I make my own judgments about each person’s intelligence)...but why should you not mention it, though? why should it be something others read?

Using “intelligence” and “icky” in the same sentence is confusing apples and oranges.

It’s taboo for the same reason talking about your appearance or success. It makes other, insecure people uncomfortable. I’m not saying that people should go around saying “Did you know I have a 157 IQ? Yea, I’m pretty smart.” But intelligent people should not have to dumb themselves down to make others more comfortable.

I never knew it was taboo. I’m always up for advertising my deep, deep wells of intelligence.

@gailcalled I guess that was a failed attempt at humor.

@Facade you bring up an great point, actually. I wonder how many people have felt the need to dumb themselves down to make others more comfortable. Obligated, even.

@TheOnlyNeffie I certainly feel that way sometimes – not just dumb down but stop even discussing ideas I find interesting because they’re too ‘controversial’ and complicated aka makes people feel guilty for things they should feel guilty about.

@TheOnlyNeffie I think everyone has to deal with that at some point in their life. Highschool, college, work, even around family.

@TheOnlyNeffie I will take it as a genuine question that also happens to be a challenge! It is a potential topic of conversation. If it were a conversation, I could see it being “acceptable” to mention one’s mental strengths and weaknesses, because that isn’t outright bragging.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Clearly you’re your own advocate! But back to reality, how do you feel about individuals verbally dwelling on their good figure or pretty face, etc.? These things are for others to perceive, no?

@jfos It really depends, for me – it’s all about how much work an individual has put into whatever they’re discussing. If they have struggled hard to stay in shape or become a particular shape, I’ll support a little bragging here and there. If they worked really hard and succeeded in calculus, same thing. If they are just talking about how pretty they are…well, to me, that’s more shallow than discussing intelligence. I don’t take discussing intelligence to mean bragging about how much intelligence one has.

@Wundyatta

To illustrate your point, remember the good ol’

“Fact from fiction. Truth from diction” ?

LOL

Fond memories…

I always feel that if someone needs to advertise something, it must be because they don’t really have that thing they are advertising. If they really had it, they wouldn’t need to advertise.

There are situations where it is appropriate to tell someone certain information. If they ask you what college you went to or what degree you have, it’s not impolite to tell them. If it’s a potential employer is is entirely appropriate. If it is an issue of who has a certain skill (is there a doctor in the house), then one might announce it.

If you are in a Doctor or Lawyer’s office, it is appropriate for them to display the certification showing they have the skills they say they have.

But in general, if someone wants to tell me about some virtue they believe they have, the last thing they should do is to tell me about it, unless I ask. If they tell me about it, unasked, I immediately assume they are insecure about that virtue and they don’t really have as much of it as they say. I will decide if I think you are virtuous. You really have nothing to do with the assessment. Although you have everything to do with providing the data for the assessment.

(again, the general “you”)

What’s the difference between an intelligent man and a UFO?

I don’t know, I’ve never seen either one.

@jfos – You got it right. :-) Thanks.

If you are in such neediness to let people know who you are and what you know. When your “intelligence” will take care of it through simple communication.

Then there are other issues, that becoming the real distraction. It can easily be seen as insecurity. (probably is) Then the original intent is lost.

If you are intelligent, it is not taboo. If you are unintelligent, and know that it , then it may be discouraging, but it is not taboo. It is not taboo unless you have limited intelligence and wish to be enabled in your denial of it. Plus, it is difficult to measure objectively.

Ah @BoBo1946. Where you been hanging out? Pensacola?

@wundayatta are you the mayor there?

@BoBo1946 Naw. Too smart to be the mayor there. I’m the mayor of Butztown.

@wundayatta be sure to take your meds today! Delusional disorder is out of control!

@BoBo1946 Bzzzzt. I laughed at your “are you the mayor there” but is this all you got as a comeback? You can do better. I’ll give you another try. Try to come up with something halfway intelligent this time! ;-)

@wundayatta oh, i’m stupid…no doubt!

“Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.”
-Albert Einstein

but, i’m a good golfer @wundayatta ! So, Pensacola might work for me!

@BoBo1946 Me, too. Me, too. And I have never struck a golf ball in anger!

I have never thought of it as taboo.

It is diffucult to measure and is a subjective judgement rather than fact. Most often it is a moot point because success is often determined by other factors (perseverance).

The smartest people I know or knew have no reason to advertise it—it is delightfully obvious in the way they speak, their interest in others and the world, how they live their lives.

I’ve never really understood this either. I do think bragging is unbecoming, no matter what one is bragging about. (I’m totally guilty of this though, when it comes to my kids… I can’t seem to help myself!) If a conversation about one’s level of intelligence comes up, though… why is it unbecoming to acknowledge your own?

It seems to me that frequently, when a person is trying to convey their relatively superior intelligence, it is in the context of proving that their opinion should be respected more highly than the opinion of those who would therefore be deemed to be of lower intelligence.

Maybe this practice has taken on some negative connotations because people generally don’t enjoy being told that they are mentally inferior, and that therefore their opinions can’t possibly be as valid or as worthy of consideration.

Just one possible reason, and of course not always applicable, but that may contribute to the social construct addressed in the question.

The taboo extends to talking about anything one excels at. When describing intelligence, people usually mean the standard IQ test, which is unfortunate because many people with exceptionally high Stanford-Binet numbers are incredibly inept at other basic skills.

@stranger_in_a_strange_land: Milo here. Speak for yourself, bub.

For whatever reason, Western culture puts a lot of stock by intellect where another might encourage piety, physical strength, wisdom, or any of a zillion other attributes. As ever, it is rude to insult a person, but even more rude to insult along the lines of this culturally-favored attribute.
I personally think that wisdom is a better attribute than intelligence.

@gailcalled Milo’s social IQ is probably higher than mine. Angel and Simba could give him a run for his money in social amenities, except when fighting over who gets brushed first. With my niece moving in next week, they’ll both get brushed at the same time, but they’ll have to train Jacqueline trained properly.

Late to the discussion, but I just wanted to say I don’t understand it, either. I think something that might put it into perspective for those who aren’t quite grasping what you mean is to say this: It is far more acceptable in this society to put yourself down than it is to be confident. And I think there is something extremely wrong with that. Not only does it say “you MUST look to others to validate who you are”, it’s abusive to yourself, period. Why is it more okay to say, “I SUCK at math” than to say, “I’m GREAT at math!”?

As others have pointed out, there’s a huge difference between bragging and acknowledging that it’s perfectly okay – and should be perfectly acceptable – to compliment yourself, or to just feel confident in your abilities. Just my thoughts…

@DrasticDreamer thank you. You did a much better job of explaining it than I did. :)

@augustlan yes, people that have to remind people of how smart they are; are not very smart! MattBrowne is the perfect example of intelligence and humility! What a wonderful World it would be if it was full of Matt’s!

@DrasticDreamer I don’t think it’s about validation and confidence. If anything, it would be self-validating to proclaim one’s own intelligence, and confident to allow others to judge for themselves.

I don’t care what your judgement about yourself is—good or bad. Show me the proof. I don’t think any of us are competent to judge ourselves. We’re just not objective enough.

With respect to intelligence, not only do I want you to prove it, I also need you to convince me that it matters.

@wundayatta don’t have to prove anything to myself or anyone else! I’m very comfortable with who i’m! It is not a contest at my age! Be thy ownself….i’m happy with what was given me! To others (Pensacola comment) , it may come up short, but that would be their problem, not mine!

@BoBo1946 Yes! Exactly! Someone who feels like they have to make an assertion about their intelligence would seem uncomfortable with themselves. They probably feel like their behavior doesn’t represent who they think they are.

As to Pensacola, while I don’t think much of hot, humid weather and flat countryside and oodles of retirees, I still would learn a lot from anyone I met there, were I to have an extended conversation with them (assuming they would talk). But you don’t need to prove anything at all, until you make some kind of assertion about skill.

I’m not going to hire you to repoint my foundation until I’ve seen some evidence you are good at that kind of work. It’s the same with intelligence. If you say you’re smart, then I expect you to show me something (other than an IQ test) that shows me you’ve done some creative thinking and solved some significant problems. If you’re not prepared to do that, then you’re just babbling and wasting my time.

@wundayatta say what….I’m not smart! I’ll do….i get by! Graduated from college with a 2.8…that not smart, but i did okay! When you practice two or three hours everyday in the gym, was happy with my grades!

Read my profile, never been good at anything accept basketball and golf…

and btw, certainly was not scholar in English!

Have a good day!

So… you actually need to be smart in order to claim that you are smart. Which is why you should have to prove or demonstrate your intelligence, rather than just claim to be smart. But it’s only insulting/impolite/taboo/icky ;) if you are actually smart, in which case it is actually considered bragging.

It really does seem to apply well beyond the subject of intelligence, which I notice was mentioned in a few posts. If a person is average or less than attractive compared to whatever the standard for exceptional beauty is, and they feel confident enough to say “I am beautiful!”, we praise that attitude. But someone that might be considered exceptionally attractive saying the same thing would be considered a braggart. I really do see a sort of societal double standard. Of course people will judge for themselves regardless of what a person says and these are very subjective claims.

What if you’ve already made a judgment about the person? Suppose it’s someone you’ve known a long time. A relative or close friend, for example. You believe that they are intelligent. Would you think less of them if they thought of themselves as intelligent? Or vice versa… let’s say you are confident in your own intelligence. Would you admit that confidence to someone else that already knows you?

I’m really just trying to piece together the opinions I’m picking up from the responses, please correct me if I’ve misunderstood. This has been really fascinating to read.

@TheOnlyNeffie hopefully, you did not think i was bragging about being smart…if so, please forgive me for misleading you! Not my forta!!! Just a jock that made fairly good grades.

@BoBo1946 I can’t tell if that comment is serious. I didn’t get the impression that you were bragging at all.

@TheOnlyNeffie good…not my thing! My grandfather said too many times, “your never impress people by “tooting your own horn,” or talking bad about your fellowman behind his back!” He would say, “boy, if got something bad to say to a man, say it too his face!” He was a real man!

@ChazMaz been waiting on your comment long enough..loll..got to run my friend…later! oh, know you well enough, that you are not writing a longwinded comment..lol.. probably had to take care of something at the station!

“validation and confidence.”

For this example:

I am good at what I do. Even GREAT! My validation and confidence comes from how I get GIT-R-DONE. I don’t need to prove anything to anyone except accomplishing the task that is in front of me. If it is something that needs validation up front. Like “how can I help I’m a Doctor”, that’s another thing.

Telling people you have a new car or lost weight is sharing good fortune. We all like to hear good news.

So many time in my profession I come across someone that can’t just express their thought on a subject without first rattling off their resume. When just providing input would “prove” your value to the conversation. It being expert opinion of life observation.

More often then not it is insecurity and we all carry a bit of it with us.

@BoBo1946 We all have different strengths. Or perhaps pastimes. What do I do for fun? I write. More rarely, I make music. I also dance. I’m not good enough at any of these things to make a living at them. If I could make a living at them, that’s what I’d be doing.

Can you be intelligent for a living? Funny thing. I work at a university in a support position that requires me to have some specialized knowledge. I don’t have a PhD, though. Many people think that I do, and I’ll either straighten them out or not, depending on the situation.

In any case, I generally feel inferior to the PhDs, even though they come to me for help. Sometimes they are making rather egregious errors and I can help them fix those errors, but I still feel inferior because I am only support while they are actually doing real work, contributing to the overall knowledge of humanity. I always feel like I am learning from them rather than the other way around. I feel I learn from the graduate students just as much.

I usually feel like I can understand things if I’m allowed to ask enough questions. Usually, since they come to me for help, I can ask these questions under the guise of gathering the information I need to help them. Really it’s just because I want to know what’s going on around me. It’s fun to learn new stuff, though. I’m glad I do it. I guess I have a talent for it, but it’s not a talent I respect. I respect writing and music making and dance and art. If I were really smart, I’d probably be able to make a living doing those things.

Of course, intelligence is only part of the equation. Stick-to-it-iveness and business sense are other parts. Not sure intelligence means much without that other stuff.

@ChazMaz exactly…GIT-R-DONE is all there is…all the years i was handling my agent’s insurance claims, it was about taking care of the customers. I got it done.

Got to run..going to Memphis for pre-op and consultation…surgery on my hip…had the left one replaced and now the right one is bad. Too many trips up and down the basketball court!

@wundayatta running late and did not get to read it as i should have…just one thing! Phd’s…most of those people get those by endurance, not being real smart. And, you noticed, i said most…there are some very smart people with Phd’s…but, not all of them. I’ve a few friends that are Phd’s! They did it by hard work and not giving up!

@BoBo1946 I don’t think being smart and hard work are mutually exclusive.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir ? referring to what? Not sure where you are coming from…..you have to draw me a picture! It is smart to work hard. Hard work odviously does not make your smart. I’m missing something here! But, thank you for your comment if you decide not to expound on your comment.

@BoBo1946 You said ‘most of those people get those by endurance, not being real smart’ – which (seemed to me) sounds like you think it’s either or which it isn’t.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir maybe, you misunderstood! These were my friends….only can speak to their getting their Phd…okay! Will call my friend Dr.S! Dr.S coached with me for a couple of years. He is like me…made better than average grades in college and decided to get his Phd. He worked hard and endured the test…like myself, he is no Einstein, but he became very successful. May not make sense too you, but makes sense to me!

I understand what both @Simone_De_Beauvoir and @BoBo1946 are saying. Hard work will only take you so far in an educational environment if you don’t have a brain in your head. But the brain in your head isn’t going to get you through without the hard work. You really do need to apply both.
When I started this topic, it was not my intent to somehow insinuate or stress the “importance” of intelligence. There most certainly are multiple levels of intelligence, multiple types of intelligence, and multiple ways to gauge intelligence. I’m pretty certain everyone agrees on that (I could be wrong, though.)
However, I really don’t feel like anyone has convinced me that it isn’t “taboo” to discuss your own intelligence. Which was the purpose of my question, and I’ve gotten a much longer list of brilliant and well thought out responses. What I love so dearly about Fluther is exactly that. I get a very deep satisfaction from learning new things and hearing other people’s (well thought out and explained) opinions.
I think that when I said this above: “So… you actually need to be smart in order to claim that you are smart. Which is why you should have to prove or demonstrate your intelligence, rather than just claim to be smart. But it’s only insulting/impolite/taboo/icky ;) if you are actually smart, in which case it is actually considered bragging.” – I summed up the majority of the opinions I was picking up. It seems that it is in fact “taboo” to talk about your own intelligence, particularly if you’re a (subjectively) intelligent person. Alright, that half of the question is taken care of. I don’t think that anyone addressed whether or not it should be that way.

It doesn’t seem to be alright to express confidence in traits you possess if there is a pretty good chance they are true. Is that really how it should be?

Maybe I should open that as a new topic?

@TheOnlyNeffie well said…dang, just what i was trying to say…loll

@BoBo1946 thank you :) Happy to be of service. Usually I have a hard time explaining myself, and I’m always looking for someone to help me. So it’s nice to actually know what I’m trying to say once in a while, rare as it may be. lol.

@ touche my friend….

It is not taboo. And it shouldn’t. Genes are not the only part that matters. A healthy diet during pregnancy matters. Parent-child interaction especially during the first three years matters. Quality time with lots of discussions matters. No tv in the kids bedrooms matters.