Social Question

partyparty's avatar

How do you feel about gay couple christening their children?

Asked by partyparty (9142points) July 3rd, 2010

Just read about a gay couple who are about to christen their children.
Apparently they are the first gay couple in the UK to have their children registered as having two fathers but no mother.
How do you feel about it? Is it acceptable? How will it affect their children?
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42 Answers

gemiwing's avatar

I think it’s great that they belong to a church family that loves them as God made them. Their children have a strong support network in place to grow healthy and strong.

PandoraBoxx's avatar

“Gay” and “Christian” are mutually exclusive terms. Sexual orientation as nothing to do with faith or the quality of the person. Plenty of babies have been christened where the man who is the father of the baby doesn’t know the child isn’t his because the mother sleeps around, or where the father or mother will abuse the child; that is a choice the parent makes. Sexual orientation is not.

How do I think baptism will affect the child? Like any other child, they will grow up going to church, and either hate it, reject the faith of their parents, and possibly come back to it when they get older, or grow up to become a member of the clergy.

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nebule's avatar

I don’t see any problem with it in that it’s exactly the same as a heterosexual couple christening their kids… I personally would leave it up to the child to decide what ritual they want to partake in when they are old enough to make that decision. It’s their life not ours.

Cruiser's avatar

We are talking about a baby who is every bit a child of it’s God no matter what the uptight clergy of it’s faith may have in it’s agenda. Baptize that child so it too can have equal opportunity to be welcomed into it’s Kingdom of God if and when.

Kayak8's avatar

Congrats to the parents on this blessed event in the life of their child. The sacrament of Baptism should be available to all who seek it.

marinelife's avatar

I think it is a fine idea if that is what they want for their children.

partyparty's avatar

@gemiwing Lovely answer thanks
@PandoraBoxx Thoughtful answer. How do you think it will affect the children when they see they have two fathers and no mother registered on their birth certificate?
@Cruiser Yes I understand the baptism is a lovely thing to do, but, how will the children feel knowing they have two fathers and no mother, yet the church appears to accept this is normal?

marinelife's avatar

@partyparty I don’t think they will think it is strange. It is all that they have ever known..

partyparty's avatar

@marinelife Yes but what about their birth certificate. That will tell a different story.

marinelife's avatar

@partyparty It depends on what their parents tell them of their birth and family life. If it is a matter of fact thing from ealry childhood on, it will not be weird. Just like with any adopted children.

dpworkin's avatar

I think it’s an objectionable question. Who are we to find it acceptable or unacceptable? It’s none of our business.

lynfromnm's avatar

I have no problem with it at all, if that is the choice of the family. I see no reason why a child would somehow be worse off for having a loving family, regardless of its composition.

Personally, as a person who isn’t a Christian, I don’t see the point of christening my child into a church that systemically persecutes people who are gay, but if that is the family’s choice, so be it and let them live their lives as they have chosen.

partyparty's avatar

@dpworkin I have put this question in the social section. You have freedom of choice whether to look at this question. It was your choice to look at it. So there must have been some interest for you!!
This is life, This is happening now. Get over it!!

dpworkin's avatar

I answered it the way I wanted to answer. You get over it. You are on a public forum – you don’t get to choose how others respond to the shit you post.

partyparty's avatar

@lynfromnm I don’t see the point of christening my child into a church that systemically persecutes people who are gay
Yes that was one of the reasons for me asking this question. How will the child flourish?

gemiwing's avatar

This is a bit OT, but I feel it’s important to say.

Not all churches are the same. Not all sects of Christianity believe homosexuality is wrong. Check out the More Light Presbyterians If a child of gay parents were to be baptised in my church, they would be celebrated, loved and nurtured as any child would.

partyparty's avatar

@gemiwing That is really lovely for the children. The Presbyterian church would appear to have such a caring philosophy.

PandoraBoxx's avatar

@partyparty, How do you think it will affect the children when they see they have two fathers and no mother registered on their birth certificate? Probably relief. The lightbulb will finally go off as to why both parents have shaved their faces in the morning and urinate standing up their entire childhood.

Seriously, baptism certificate and birth certificate are two different documents. Either the birth certificate has the mother’s name if one of the men actually fathered the child, or if it’s truly an adoption, the certificate carries the name of one parent as the father only. When any child is adopted, a new certificate is issued with the adoptive parents name, and the original birth certificate becomes a sealed record that cannot be seen unless the birth mother agrees. Plenty of people who are born to unmarried women have birth certificates that only carry the mother’s name, no mention of a father.

Are you intimating that people who are born to unmarried people should not be allowed to be baptized because they only have a mother on their birth certificate and are bastard children, intimating that their mothers are sluts? Because that’s the way that you’re heading with this question, by intimating that non-Christian “ideal” family structure is in any way harmful to either children or the Church.

Aster's avatar

The parents want the child to join the family of God. I think it’s beautiful and so is the minister who does performs the ceremony.
When he’s older he can be Baptized if when understands the meaning of Baptism. I hope it will be a happy day for all concerned.

lynfromnm's avatar

I’m delighted to hear that not all Christian denominations treat gay people as second class citizens. Most gay people I know have been shunned by churches or have been the targets of people who want to purge them of their “sins”.

However, it’s all about choice. This couple has made its choice and that should be respected. They adopted a child out of love and I’m sure will raise him lovingly. The best opportunity for any child is to have as many loving people around him as possible. If that happens in this church, wonderful for all concerned. It seems chancy to me, but all choices are. You simply continue doing the best you can for your child.

partyparty's avatar

@PandoraBoxx No please don’t think I am intimating anything whatsoever.
I am merely curious, because of the fact that I understand some churches don’t accept gay people. How then can these children be accepted into the church?
Also, I find it unusual to have two males cited as parents on the birth certificate. One male or one female I understand, but not two males or two females.
I feel that everyone has a right to be baptised, and everyone has a right to follow whatever faith they choose.
Hope that clears things with you. :-)

tinyfaery's avatar

Honestly, I feel the same about gay Christians as I do Log Cabin Republicans. I don’t trust them and I can’t help but feel that behind their “convictions” is a bit of self-hatred.

However, I don’t really trust religious people or republicans

perspicacious's avatar

I don’t understand why you would ask this question. I don’t see what the parents’ sexual preference has to do with a child being Baptized.

Nullo's avatar

It is unacceptable for a gay couple to have kids.

partyparty's avatar

@tinyfaery Any particular reason why you don’t trust these people?
@perspicacious I asked the question because many churches condemn gay people. Also thinking about the children, their birth certificate shows two men as their parents.
I was hoping to open up a discussion about how these children will deal with this fact when they are old enough to understand their certificates weren’t the norm.
Hope you understand where I am coming from now :-)
@Nullo Thanks for your answer. Do you have any particular reasons why?
@lynfromnm Yes I asked this question because of the attitude of some churches. I am so very happy for the children to be accepted into a church and be baptised.

perspicacious's avatar

@partyparty No, a discussion about who is on the birth certificate has nothing to do with Baptizing a baby.

dpworkin's avatar

Bigots don’t need reasons.

mattbrowne's avatar

Acceptable.

PandoraBoxx's avatar

@partyparty you question and comments sound like idle small minded snideness.

because of the fact that I understand some churches don’t accept gay people. How then can these children be accepted into the church?

Some churches are not all churches. In fact, some churches are not most churches.

How exactly are “these children” different than any other children? Are they different in some way from “those children”? Two heads, perhaps? Morally and intellectually flawed because their parents’ perception of Christianity is inclusion and not exclusion? Or are they not “real” parents because they didn’t give birth to the child, and because the birth mother gave the baby away, it’s damaged goods? Or is it that only people who give birth can be “good parents” are those who actually give birth to a child; raising a child well is only possible if you popped it out?

That’s what I’m hearing you say in the undertone of what you’re saying.

Seaofclouds's avatar

I personally don’t have a problem with it and think it’s wonderful that their church is letting them do it.

PandoraBoxx's avatar

@tinyfaery, I think of gay Christians having a faith bigger than some of the church communities that are out there. The outcome of how they were raised is bigger than how they were raised, the sum is greater than the parts.

partyparty's avatar

@PandoraBoxx I think you are making far too many assumptions about how I feel about this subject.
Please stop being so defensive, and stop attacking me.
I find your comment idle small minded snideness very offensive.
This question is in the social section, can we please discuss in this vein

dpworkin's avatar

@partyparty You have a lot of complaints about the way people react to you. Maybe some self-examination is in order, instead of blaming and lecturing everyone else.

PandoraBoxx's avatar

A least get the story correct. The birth certificate for all 5 of the children in California have a mother listed. Technically, they have two mothers – the egg donor mother and the surrogate mother. The oldest two children of the 5 are the ones that were the first UK citizens to have adoption papers list two male parents. The oldest set of twins, Aspen and Saffron, and the middle child, Orlando, have Rosalind Bellamy as the surrogate mother and model Tracey McCune as a genetic mother. The current set of twins, Dallas and Jasper, have Rosalind Bellamy and Alexandra Cooper-Strash as a genetic mother.

The 1999 landmark ruling behind the birth registry with two fathers was that the courts ruled that sexual orientation was not a basis for denying access to infertility services. As part of the adoption process, the original birth certificate lists mother and father, of which one of the men actually is the genetic father. A new birth certificate was issued listing both fathers as “Parent 1” and “Parent 2”.

Since your idle speculation was not based on accurate fact, including the year the birth certificate was actually issued for the first set of twins, which has nothing to do with baptism of the second set of twins, I’m not getting how you intent is not idle small-mindedness?

tinyfaery's avatar

@partyparty I gave you a reason. I feel that purposely belonging to a group (religion, political party) whose standard beliefs (I realize that not all members of the group will hold the beliefs, but the beliefs are the prevalent morality of the group.) include rejecting, criticizing and damning your very being (being gay) is questionable. It seems to me there is an underlying self-hatred—to belong to a group that objects to the person you are and the people you love.

YARNLADY's avatar

To the religious, Christening a baby is very important. I have actually heard of religious people (often grandparents) Christening a child in absentia. I don’t see what the description of the parents has to do with it.

laureth's avatar

Seriously, what would you expect them to do, especially if they’re religious Christians? Burn the kid on an altar to Ba’al? Gay people are people just like everyone else.

Trance24's avatar

What sort of question is this? Why are we still judging the gays? They have the right to Christen their children just as anyone else does.

Berserker's avatar

Whatever. Do what you want. This kinda stuff really wouldn’t be such a big deal if we didn’t make it out to be.

Figaro's avatar

I think it’s great the child is being Christened. The child has its own soul which is independent of the parents. The salvation of the child’s soul begins with baptism.

partyparty's avatar

@Figaro That is such a lovely answer. Many thanks :-)

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