(NSFW) The sub who was really humiliated, what would you advise hime to do about it?

I’m not sure how this works out legally, so I’d wait for other answers on that aspect. However, relationships such as this one almost always have a way out. If things are too intense, there is a safe word or other prearranged exit strategy. Of course all relationships rely on trust, but something like this is especially based in trust. I certainly hope, at the very least, that your friend has walked away from this relationship. If he can not trust her, how can he ever find joy in what they share? I would call this rape, yes.

go back for second’s.

Well bugger me sideways. I bet he walks with a gimp…..sorry limp. I’d advice him next time stay at home with his blow up doll. Okay he may feel a litlle deflated afterwards but he won’t have a sore ringpiece at least. Every loser wins.

You go for the kink, sometimes the kink goes for you. He knew she was a little wild. I don’t believe in doing something against someone’s choice but maybe they didn’t have a safeword?

If that’s the kind of relationship he wanted and he failed to communicate his boundaries to her, then it’s at least at least as much his fault as hers. Did he call his safeword? Did he even have one? Communication and trust are paramount in BDSM relationships. I admit that I’d feel more sympathy if the abused submissive was female, call me a chauvinist pig.So he’s got a sore bum? I know ladies who are lucky to be alive after scenes went sour. Chalk it up to experience, negotiate the next scene better or get out of the kink.

I see this getting real ugly, really fast. Anyone else get that feeling?

I would consider it rape, but it might be hard for him to press charges. Without knowing all of the details, it’s hard to say how hard it would be for him to press charges against her. It sounds like he clearly said no, but sometimes that is part of the role playing people do. That is why it’s important to use a safe word in anything that could potentially get out of control (so pretty much all BDSM). As much as I’m sure he doesn’t want to talk to her, he may need to talk to her about it to find out what happened. Did she think he was role playing with him? If so, it could be that she didn’t believe he was serious. That would be harder for them to prove it as rape (because rape wasn’t her intent and she thought he was on the same page, that’s one of the downsides to some of the kinkier things in sex). If she heard him and believed him, but decided to do it anyway because she wanted to, then it was definitely rape, but it would still be his work against hers since I’m guessing he didn’t go to the hospital or anything afterwards. If he is done with the relationship, he could go talk to the police and see what they say. If they can’t charge her with rape, they might be able to look into assault or something like that. If he is interested in keeping the relationship, they need to have a serious talk and come up with a safe word to use during their play.

@Seaofclouds That’s what I’m wondering. Ignoring a safeword is definitely rape or assault, but the law often looks at kink relationships very differently, depending on jurisdiction. A dominant in a conservative jurisdiction could find him- or herself charged with rape or assault even though the scene didn’t go outside negotiated parameters and no safeword called. BDSM “contracts” aren’t recognized by law anywhere.

Isn’t this a little like going into battle with a rubber bayonet, and then crying foul when the other guy pulls out a real one?

@stranger_in_a_strange_land I completely agree that that type of relationship can make things really sticky in the legal setting.

@Adirondackwannabe No, just like any sexual encounter, each person involved has the right to say “no” or “stop” at any given moment and that should be respected. It just gets a little more difficult to tell the difference in BDSM and role playing and that is why anyone doing those things should have a safe word (because sometimes “no” and “stop” are part of the role they are playing).

@Seaofclouds I understand you completely, but going into these types of relationships, the fact that they can go too far is a little of the attraction isn’t it?

@Adirondackwannabe Not for me. For me, going into those types of encounters is about meeting each others wants and desires. The moment it goes to far and you violate the other person’s trust, the relationship is doomed. Those encounters are about a supreme amount of trust in your partner. If you don’t trust that they won’t listen to you when you are in a vulnerable position, you won’t enjoy it because you will be worried about that instead of enjoying the moment. Once the safe word is used, the moment stops, restraints are released, and you discuss what went wrong so that it doesn’t happen again.

If you are going to do B&D, D&S games, one of the first steps is to agree on a safe word, something that you would never say in ordinary conversation, like Rumpelstiltskin or detente. Agree that neither will use it lightly, but that when it is used it means this is going over my limits and it must stop.

Without a safe word, you put the dominant in an impossible position of playing mind reader, because subs are supposed to complain and whine. That’s all part of the game. If you have a safe word and one partner disregards it, that’s rape. Thet is a VERY serious breach of etiquette and law..

@Seaofclouds I understand. I trust my partner completely. It’s the thought of giving up control in theory,that’s part of the attraction of these types of situations is what I was referring to. ET phrased it well.

@Adirondackwannabe I agree about the thought of giving up control being part of the attraction. But even giving up control doesn’t mean things should go too far (too far meaning passed the point of when the safe word is used).

@Seaofclouds Yeah, that’s why I see this relationship getting real ugly.

@Adirondackwannabe I agree. If it were me, the relationship would have been over right then and there. That’s a huge violation of trust.

On the other side of the question, How many guys would like to spend a little time with this kind of freaky lady?

First of all, they have a poor understanding of the lifestyle.
Second, she abused him. In the lifestyle, I call it, consensual rape.

She went too far just on the grounds of not having a good understanding of her sub and her partner. Apparently from his confusion afterward it was something they did not agree to do before hand.

As much as a Dom/Master is “calling the shots” in the house and the relationship. Trust and communication is absolute.

To say, “I am the Dom so I will do what I want with you when I want to and how ever I want to”, is dramatic bullshit. And for the sub that blindly follows that directive is a tool.

They are just two individuals playing with fire and got burned.

Yes, it’s rape.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir If the couple had a safe word and the dom ignored it, then I agree. If they were playing D&S without a safe word, then not so fast. It’s entirely possible the Dom thought the sub was just being dramatic.

@ETpro Well, yes but it sounds like he’s all ‘bummed in the head’ so he certainly feels violated.

Safe words. lol
I always found that funny (and weak).

If you are going to be with a partner that can loose control to the point of you needing a safe word.

THAT is not a safe relationship.

@ChazMaz It only seems funny to you because the whole concept makes you uncomfortable – it’s common practice to have a safe word, it’s part of the fun – I think every couple should have one, SM or not, because sometimes people don’t read their partners correctly or don’t know their own strength but still want to explore.

“It only seems funny to”
I take it VERY seriously, that just happens to be funny. And obvious.

“the whole concept makes you uncomfortable”
Tell that to my subs. Been in the Lifestyle too long. Way too long. lol

“it’s part of the fun”
Sure if you see it as role play.

“sometimes people don’t read their partners correctly”
Don’t do what you can’t handle. I have NEVER had a problem with that. :-)

Sometimes if you are pushing the limits you don’t know for sure where they are until you reach them.

@ChazMaz So you have subs but no safe words? That doesn’t seem safe to me

Understandable, you not being one of my subs. An earned privilege. ;-)

Trust and understanding are the safe words of choice, for me and those involved.
It has worked seamlessly over the years.

Two words that are lacking in the lifestyle. Epically these days.

But then again, I am unique. :-)

@ChazMaz I wouldn’t be a sub.

I certifiably wouldn’t want you too be. You are too special (and unique) just as you are.

And I like that!

All aside. I have found (my opinion) the lifestyle disappointing.
Too many issues not enough honesty.

Can we stop using the term “Dom”? It’s disturbing me… :\

I agree with @Simone_De_Beauvoir on this one, sorry. Sounds like rape to me. I understand that maybe it’s difficult to tell if someone truly wants something when you get into paraphilias like this, because sometimes people are turned on by pretending like they don’t want it. But, I also think that people who are into this kind of thing have a way of making it clear when they truly don’t want something and it was ignored in this case.

Well answerd @ChazMaz .

@ChazMaz THAT is not a safe relationship. Ditto…my mind can go there. Never gave that a second thought “back then.” Hey, i’ve never had any problems with the word no!

Never forget one night in college….my teammates and i were at some hamburger joint sitting in the car outside and a couple of girls pulled up beside us…and they were drunk. One of the girls stuck her head out the window of the car and hollered at us, “I would love to rape one of you guys!” She had not more than got those words out of her mouth and my teammate hollered back, “baby, you can’t rape the willing.” And, quickly he got out of my car and jumped in the back seat with one those girls…...we did not see him for 3 days!

Also, when i was a young guy, did not even know the meaning of bondage, chains, etc…. We never saw any of that stuff in Sears and Roebuck catalogs. Also, toys… threesome, etc. we would not know what you were talking about back then….. Being around a bunch of jocks, you hear lots of stuff…but, never that…. i’ve always been a one on one kind of guy! Guess, i’m just an old fashion prude. Got to be something…

I don’t know much about BDSM but from I understand, submissives get off on doing exactly what their master or mistress wants. I feel like an experienced dominatrix, regardless of the presence of a safe word or not, would know the difference between “yes mistress, as you wish mistress,” and “Please don’t do that. No, really, put the fucking strap-on down.” Also, from what I understand, couples do not always have a safe word but will sometimes have an action to signify a pause in the action after all, how can you say a safe word with a gag or bit in your mouth? so maybe he was trying to, say, tap her ankle or hit the floor a couple times and she ignored it.

I also would imagine that these kinds of relationships would have certain rules and boundaries already in place. Being sodomized by a rubber dildo is quite different than being whipped which is quite different from being sliced with razors. If neither of them thought to say what was an was not okay beforehand, that’s on both of them. However, since they’ve been in this relationship for three months and this was the first time she pulled out the strap-on, my guess she sprung this on him.

Remember, there is also a lot we don’t know about the situation. Maybe he was trying to say the safe word but had a gag in his mouth. Maybe he didn’t know what was going on until after she was already using the strap-on. Maybe he thought he would like it but he didn’t and tried to stop her.

No matter what the answers to the queries above are, it was rape. It may have been unwitting rape, but it was still rape nonetheless. Intercourse or sexual activity without the consent of one or more of the parties involved is rape.

Under Canadian Law it would be considered both sexual assault and rape.

@KatawaGrey If a scene involves gags, there should be a safe signal, equivalent to a safe word. Also, there should be periodic “reality checks”, where a caring dominant seeks an affirmative signal to continue the scene. Many submissives go into a semi- or non-communicative “subspace”, it being very important that both parties understand what is to happen in this case: stop and go into immediate “aftercare”, stop and let the sub process the endorphin rush, continue at a lower level, etc. All negotiated and known in advance.

This couple was violating a number of rules for safe, sane and consensual play. They should have known each others “hard” and “soft” limits, negotiated the general direction of play (the bottom picks the restaurant, the top chooses from the menu), had signals and safewords clear. What she did to him indicates that she had no concern for his well-being, a serious red flag in this kink, what she did being equivalent to rape or assault regardless of what the law would rule.

It’s very dangerous, IMO, to play these scenes outside of a loving relationship, something I won’t do. That’s why players who go in this direction usually have detailed negotiation sessions, summarized in writing like a legal contract. There are actually checklist forms developed by experts that cover everything that should be known and/or negotiated.

I should note that there is a double standard in the BDSM community. If a male dominant were to do this to a female submissive, he’d be treated as a pariah and would have a difficult time finding another play partner. Not so if the genders are reversed.

Only utter fools play without safewords and signals. Even if they are never used, just having them is a symbol of responsibility and concern. In these relationships trust is everything; if that trust is broken, it becomes abuse.

Sorry about the lecture. BDSM safety is one of my “hot-button” passions.

I’ve got two words for ‘yall: Safeword.

@Adirondackwannabe – My wife is like that- hence we are “Switch” He should have used his safe word when he was not ok with the moment.

He should reciprocate and get her good on something within her limits, like take her for a ride right about to cum and hold her there and make her beg. Then after he should remind her that paybacks can be hard…

@phil196662 I just hope he doesn’t go too far with his revenge. He put himself in that situation as well.

“They should have known each others “hard” and “soft” limits”
Pretty much says it all.

Inconsiderate, selfish and “deviant” acts. Never turn out right in the end (or the rear) in this case. You get out of it what you put into it.

Speculate all you want as to what is suppose to happen. The bottom line and reality dictates COMMUNICATION. Titillation is always secondary.
And, fantasy is NEVER reality. Sometimes it is better sometimes it is worse.
It tends to be worse more often in the lifestyle. Because lack of understanding and impatiences take over.

The example in the post a common “problem”.

Not knowing your partner and loosing control is a bad situation for either partner to get involved in. I hear more bad stories then good. Because no one learned proper protocol.

We wear a seat belt when driving a car. We make sure the gun is not loaded when we clean it. But people will blindly (due to fantasy) allow themselves to be secured in a way that they are helpless to do anything about and allow someone, who probably was not on their game either to loose control and harm them. Or was use to “harming”.

I know responsible individuals that will not allow anyone in their dungeon if there is drinking or drug use. Because they understand that people get hurt when “all is good”.

Then you have the individuals, 60% (my optimistic opinion) of them, that are fucked up.
Abusers looking to abuse and the abused that find a comfort zone in abuse.

The “abused” are the sad ones. They get raped, and they get beat up. Their self esteem was never there so they accept it. They embrace it as a good thing.
The “Dom” is use to it. Expecting it to be ok to do what they want.

Like @KatawaGrey said, “submissive get off on doing exactly what their master or mistress wants.” There are some real issues as to why they do that. And, we are not talking about a little pinch and tickle.
From the outside looking in, most see it as fantasy role play It is a little deeper then that.

Getting involved without REALLY understanding what you are getting yourself into. And you can find yourself wishing you only got fucked in the ass with a strap on.
You will find plenty that want the abuse and some just cant get turned on enough.
I mean use safe words, plenty do. Develop some sort of code that under ant circumstance you will know as… STOP!

I would rather get my ducks in a row from the beginning. especially when another human being is involved. :-)

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Knowledgeable BDSM practitioners always establish (and follow) ground rules, and they always agree upon a “safe word”. If your friend and his girlfriend are not following those practices, they need to stop what they’re doing and educate themselves. (They could start with Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns and Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission.)

Any partner who ignores or violates those boundaries should no longer have the opportunity for play. BDSM is based on trust, and a violated trust is very hard to regain.

Any recommendation of payback or retaliation is irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

@syz If your friend and his girlfriend are not following those practices, they need to stop what they’re doing and educate themselves. (They could start with Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns and Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission.) Maybe they should have Alternative Sex Ed 101 while schools are telling kids about how to do what they have seen on TV and in movies and heard about in countless songs and music and already know to a point because of such they can teach them about this.

@syz Good points. I also recommend Jay Wiseman’s “SM 101”. He puts very strong emphasis on safety in all his writings. My role model in the scene.

I’ve tried to add a link to “Jay Wiseman’s Negotiation Checklist”, but it refused to work. Google those keywords to find it. This is one of the most basic BDSM negotiation checklists; this sort of thing is absolutely essential pre-play. There are more detailed versions, available through “The Frugal Domme” website. A lot of the things in checklists are “duh, common sense” things; but they’re there to remind you to ask these things. In the heat of the moment, common sense sometimes goes out the window. Above all of this, there must be goodwill and trust.

Remember, kids: “Safe, Sane, Consensual”