Social Question

Your_Majesty's avatar

Do you think inorganic non-vegetarian lifestlye as cruelty to animals?

Asked by Your_Majesty (8212points) September 4th, 2010

If you check this link you’ll find that meat eating lifestyle is considered as cruelty activity toward animals. You can also click on those link about animals if you want better detail (a bit persuasive and propagandic but it’s a fact).

The problem is that government and many non-vegetarian people didn’t consider such activity as cruelty toward animals. Is it because those creature are just ‘animals’ and animals are meant to be used by human? Dogs and cats are also animals but whoever try to abuse or even eat them would be severely punished by law (this is,however,could be different for other countries with contradict/different perception). So why we choose one and pet another? Do you think that is fair? Even organic meat eater could be considered as cruelty since you’ll eventually murder them,take their precious life for your personal satisfaction.

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45 Answers

Ben_Dover's avatar

No, I don’t consider inorganic non-vegetarian lifestlye as cruelty to animals.
As for dogs and cats, there are plenty of people who eat ‘em. Cats make especially delicious tacos South of the border, and there are all kinds of Asian folk cooking dog right now in L.A.

Your_Majesty's avatar

So why people like you (I believe you’re an American) consider those who abuse and eat pet animals are against the law? They’re animals like any other animals! If they really care about animals they wouldn’t be that discriminative toward animals. Did you mean that all animals are meant to be used by human?

Ben_Dover's avatar

If you are talking to me @Doctor_D, I don’t consider those who eat pet animals as being against the law. But if they abuse their animals, then yes, they are in violation of the law.

As far as all animals are meant to be used by humans, that is something each individual must decide for him/her self.

NaturallyMe's avatar

I consider factory farming to be animal cruelty. Anybody who disagrees with that statement is heartless or completely misinformed about what factory farming entails. Any farm that breeds it’s animals and keeps them in cages, doesn’t allow them to roam free and exercise it’s normal animal behaviour, is practising cruelty to animals.
I’m vegetarian, so of course i don’t eat animals, because i know that it’s not necessary as part of our diet, because i believe that i have no right to take the life of an animal just so that i can have some taste satisfaction for a few minutes, and because i refuse to support any sort of factory farming.
However, i realize that all of humanity don’t yet realize that one can live a healthy lifestyle without meat, and therefore eating animals is not going to end any time soon.
So, having said that, i have no problem with farms keeping animals in good, sanitary conditions, where they have space to roam “free” and breathe fresh air, where they are not fed anti-biotics and hormones all sorts of other craps that makes them grow unnaturally fast or big or fatter etc, where they are treated like individual animals with feelings instead of commodities with no feelings or abilities to feel pain etc etc etc…and also, as long as they’re slaughtered humanely as well and not by machinery which can’t tell when an animal is dead yet or not, which obviously is not the case in any factory farming scenario.
Basically, the animals should have a good life before they are humanely slaughtered.

Also, even though i know it’s ok to eat cats (and dogs) elsewhere, i don’t accept it because my cats are like my children, so anybody eating their kind is unfathomable to me, and always will be.
I advocate no eating of animals. :)

Trillian's avatar

Why can’t those selfish people just give up their wretched lifestyles and see everything the vegetarian way? How dare people try to live their lives according to their own codes rather than yours?

Cruiser's avatar

Humans have survived on the flesh of animals since the dawn of man. Animals need to die for man and other carnivores to survive….this is the law of nature in our world. So I ask, if you take a hundred people and 100 animals and tell those 100 people to kill those 100 animals with readily available means to survive….it would not be pretty let alone remotely humane. A lot of time and effort has been invested to make harvesting animal flesh humane (by whose definition I am really not sure). I love my barbequed ribs on Labor day and my hamburger on the 4th and my Turkey at Thanksgiving.

Artistree's avatar

Animals don’t need to die for you to survive. You can survive perfectly well without animal products in your diet and many people already do. Wanting to eat meat is a different matter and a personal choice. If you choose to include animal products in your diet you can still do so without causing unnecessary suffering to the animals that you are going to ultimately eat.

Frenchfry's avatar

If you don’t eat meat. Animals will take over the world. I love meat.

Seek's avatar

I don’t think a lion or a bear has ever apologised to the antelope or the salmon.

I am a homo sapiens, an omnivorous primate, and I think meat is delicious. While I do not advocate animal cruelty, I am not going to feel guilty about enjoying a hamburger, or an antelope or a salmon.

I’ve eaten omnivores before (bear and ostrich), and I think that is the main reason I am not anxious to try carnivores like cat or dog. The meat in omnivorous mammals tends to be tough and flavorless. I prefer herbivorous mammals: cow, bison, deer… and poultry of course. I don’t really like pork (another tough, flavorless omnivore – until you add a ton of salt to the bacon.)

Jabe73's avatar

Well there are many animals that are carnivores (including cats and dogs). We as humans were meant to be omnivores. I’m not a big meat eater but I do try to vary my diet. Even though I do not agree with the religious views on this website it does make some very interesting points on why a high protein, high fat diet is among the most healthy of all diets. http://www.biblelife.org/vegan_debate.htm.

daytonamisticrip's avatar

If you kill an animal for food it’s not cruelty, it’s life. Unless you purposely kill it slowly. Animals are food. Food is energy. Energy is life.

daytonamisticrip's avatar

Do you vegetarians realize that plants are living things to, the only difference is that a cow and deer can move but a plant can’t.
@NaturallyMe i agree about factory farming
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIjanhKqVC4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhlhSQ5z4V4
Above is cruelty and wrong. Below is life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPNBynsVHAc

Zyx's avatar

@Artistree I’ll agree with being nice to animals but vegetarians and vegans are not healthy, don’t kid yourself.

Dewey420's avatar

I don’t eat cat or dog or goldfish…

gondwanalon's avatar

It is sad that captive animals raised for human consumption suffer at all. A reasonable person would call the practices shown in your link to the PETA website as very cruel. If that is the typical way that farm animals are treated then something must be done to change it ASAP.

I’m not trying to justify human’s being cruel to farm animals but in nature there always has been much animal cruelty. Wild animals live a hard and unforgivingly cruel short-lived existence. There is no healthcare or first aid available for the wild beasts. So when injured they simply recover on their own of suffer and die on their own or get eaten by predators. The strong always take advantage of the weak.

Human animals are dominant over farm animals. We want what they have to offer (meat, eggs, milk, research data, etc) therefore we take advantage of them. It is too bad that human animals can’t seem to rise above our nature and be more humane.

YARNLADY's avatar

No, that type of life style is not cruelty to animals. The source of meat is often cruel, and should be controlled.

talljasperman's avatar

you should hear the screams of the tomato’s

hobbitsubculture's avatar

Factory farming is evil. No question there.

It is a fallacy to assume that meat-eaters have no reason to eat meat other than taste. I was a vegetarian for two years, and taste wasn’t the reason I went back to my omnivorous ways. Getting all the nutrients one needs to function is problematic as a vegetarian. Not impossible, but it depends on the individual. Not everyone can simply take vitamins to make up for the nutrient deficiencies in a vegetarian diet. Nutrients from vitamins aren’t as readily absorbed as nutrients from food. And iron from plants isn’t as readily absorbed as iron from meat. Steak isn’t exactly my favorite food, but neither is anemia my favorite state of being.

I don’t eat animals because I think they only exist for my own use. I eat animals because I am an animal, and an omnivorous one at that. Omnivores eat living creatures, both flora and fauna, because we have to consume to live.

I know at least a few meat eaters who believe that if you kill another animal for meat, it’s your responsibility to help that animal’s community survive. And the same for plants, in the interest of reciprocity and balance.

…and to be fair, I concede that I eat bacon purely for its smoky, salty, meaty yumminess.

Jabe73's avatar

@Zyx Yes I agree. I was on that vegan kick for close to a year and I never felt weaker or sicker in my life. Our society has been lured by mainstream scientists and others that whole grains, low fat and diets high in fiber and carbohydrates are healthier for us. They are dead wrong. I would suggest reading that link I posted above. I’m not a homophobe or religious nut and it pains me to have to use that link to bring my point across but with most websites being biased against red meat it is very difficult to find anything with real facts about the health benefits of a diet high in protein and fat from red meat. I do not agree with the antigay remarks. I have relatives that are gay but it was the best I could find on a very limited internet biased against anything “red meat” these days.

Artistree's avatar

It is perfectly possible to maintain a healthy balanced diet without including animal products. Obviously if you exclude one source from your diet you have to make sure that you are getting what you need from an alternative source. I agree that is something a lot of people do not do well but then eating animal products does not guarantee a healthy balanced diet either. There are plenty of meat eaters and non meat eaters alike who suffer from the results of an unhealthy diet, especially in the West where we seem to be becoming increasingly unaware of the means of production of our food and their impact. Whether or not people do it well does not change that it is possible. It is simply not true to say we must eat animal products to survive or because we are designed to do so. We have progressed to the point where we can make an informed personal choice.

daytonamisticrip's avatar

Hey if any of you vegetarians were in a survival situation where your… say…..lost in the woods or jungle what would you eat. It would take more energy to forage for plants then you would regain. But if you make a bow and arrow and get a dear, or make a spear and get a fish, or even ambush some smaller prey like snakes and mice the amount of energy you regain far exceeds the energy you use. In life the strongest most willing creatures live. If your not willing to eat another creature you are not likely to survive being lost in the woods.

Dewey420's avatar

“It’s ok to eat fish because they don’t have any feelings.” God of Grunge

daytonamisticrip's avatar

@Dewey420 Never heard that one before. How can you be so sure they have no feelings.

Artistree's avatar

But I’m not in the woods am I. I’m in Walmart. We can make a choice. That’s all I’m saying,

hobbitsubculture's avatar

@Jabe73 You should check out The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith. She was a devoted vegan for something like 20 years, and ended up with a spinal disorder because of it. There’s this whole subculture of former vegans who ended up ill from their diet, and then turned into some of the most gung-ho meat eaters I’ve ever seen. Let Them Eat Meat is devoted to taking down some of the assumptions people have about the value of vegan diets.

daytonamisticrip's avatar

@Artistree life is full of surprises. If somehow you were stranded in the woods would you survive? Would you be willing to eat another animal for survival. like i said earlier…..
Animals are food. Food is energy. Energy is life.

YARNLADY's avatar

@daytonamisticrip Bears eat very little meat, but prefer plants (grasses, berries, leaves) and other foods (ants, bees, honey, larvae, carrion). There is no need for a vegetarian to become a carnivore just to survive.

daytonamisticrip's avatar

It would be a whole hell of a lot easier. By foraging for small sources of food like ants and larvae you risk using more energy than you can regain. And who would be stupid enough to go after bees and their honey!

YARNLADY's avatar

@daytonamisticrip I know, I thought about leaving that part out hehehe.

daytonamisticrip's avatar

Part of living is dying. It’s part of the circle. You live you die. You become fertilizer for the ground and food for worms. Then grass will grow and a deer will eat it. The deer will live and then die and become fertilizer for the ground. It’s one big circle. And in order to live you need to get energy. You need plant and animal energy.

NaturallyMe's avatar

@Zyx – vegetarians are healthy, you clearly have no idea what you’re talking about on this subject. And don’t kid yourself – meat eaters are not automatically healthy either – so eating meat is not going to keep you healthy by itself.
@Trillian – most people who eat meat are supporting animal cruelty, because chances are that their meat comes from factory farms. Unless one i researching where their meat comes from so as to avoid supporting factory farming, they are indeed living selfish wretched lives. This has nothing to do with vegetarian “codes” or morals, but all to do with basic human decency.
@daytonamisticrip – Yes, if it were a matter of life and death for me or my loved ones, of course i’d eat an animal if i can’t find other food. That’s a matter of striving for survival in an extreme situation and is a totally different story from choosing what to eat daily during “normal” life.
@hobbitsubculture – What about all the info out there on deaths from meaty diets and generally unhealthy eating? There are plenty more health related deaths in those instances. It goes both ways, meat eaters or not, if you don’t follow a generally varied and healthy diet, you won’t be healthy.

Trillian's avatar

” Unless one i researching where their meat comes from so as to avoid supporting factory farming, they are indeed living selfish wretched lives.”
Well said.

JilltheTooth's avatar

@YARNLADY; Carrion is meat.

Plucky's avatar

I’ve been a vegetarian for about 18 years. I am healthy.
And if I got lost in the woods ..I would survive just fine without resorting to the consumption of animal flesh.

Some of the posts on here are oozing with so much ignorance that I really don’t know where to start or what to weed out ..but I had to say something :P

“Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on Earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.”
~ Albert Einstein

YARNLADY's avatar

@JilltheTooth yes, but last on the list, and already dead meat.

daytonamisticrip's avatar

@PluckyDog Plants are living things too. PLANT KILLER!! :) Just because most don’t move or scream doesn’t mean it’s not being killed. Now what do you eat…. dirt?

Plucky's avatar

@daytonamisticrip I have had this argument countless times over the years. I am aware plants are living. Everything is alive…everything. I do not see all these other things as “alive” in the same cognitive sense that an animal is. Call it what you will.

daytonamisticrip's avatar

hmmm well…. okay then….what do you mean??..... not alive in the same cognitive sense?....?

Plucky's avatar

You know.. cognition. The process of thought. Plants lack a “brain” and a central nervous system. And responding to stimuli (as a plant does) is not the same as feeling pain or cognition.
Btw…meat eaters kill more plants by eating meat than all vegetarians put together. :P

daytonamisticrip's avatar

Your logic is very…...different. It’s still a living thing that’s life is being taken away to let you live.
To LIVE you must KILL.
No matter what as long as your alive you are killing for your own needs and satisfaction.

hobbitsubculture's avatar

@NaturallyMe Correlation is not causation.

@PluckyDog If you were lost in the woods, where do you suppose you would get your fat and protein from? Assuming you live in a temperate area, you might be lucky enough to find nuts at this time of year. Acorns are great food source, but they require a lot of processing before you can eat them. Chestnuts, black walnuts, and others are more difficult to find, at least where I live. Maybe you know your mushrooms?

Plucky's avatar

@daytonamisticrip I never claimed that I don’t kill any “living” things. I’m aware that just by living I am killing. I was giving you my reason why I will not eat animals.

@hobbitsubculture Um I think it completely depends on how long I’m lost in the woods… what woods…what time of year.. etc. So, it is rather difficult to answer that question. Btw, I do know my mushrooms. There are also many more “food” types I can find in a forest than nuts and mushrooms. If I were lost for a very long time ..I would resort to eating insects if I had to. Example: Grasshoppers are especially nutritious. And before you jump on me for the insect thing…an insect is not an animal. There is alot debate about whether insects feel pain and are conscious beings. At this point, we can’t really prove either way. I believe they respond to pain but I don’t believe they perceive it as animals do. Again, I would have to be pretty starving and malnutrioned to eat an insect. It is the goal to survive afterall is it not?
Human beings can survive in pretty much any environment that has plants/water.

It amazes me how many people resort to these type of questions when faced with a moral aspect by someone else ..lol. Many people like to think that their way of life is the only way ..and if someone can live without the resources that they call “necessities” ...omg how dare they!? Instead of looking at themselves, they find it easier to mock and try to prove that these others are wrong somehow. Like me being a vegetarian somehow insults their way of life.

NOTE: My logic is really not that “different” ...do some research :P

hobbitsubculture's avatar

@PluckyDog Perhaps you mean insects are not mammals? They are most certainly part of the animal kingdom. Wikipedia and every biology textbook on the planet agree. My basic point still stands. If you’re lost in the woods, and intend to remain a vegetarian, you’re at the mercy of the seasons and your bio-region. Good for you about the mushrooms though. You have to be dead certain with those, and I know at least one seasoned naturalist who’s too wary to bother.

On a site dedicated to discussion, I see nothing wrong with “resorting” to this type of question. I can’t speak for @daytonamisticrip‘s motives in bringing up the question, but I added mine out of curiosity, not as some kind of last-ditch debate tactic. In other situations, I’ve observed the same thing as you. People who haven’t yet confronted a moral issue central to their daily lives will get squeamish and defensive. Like their way of life is being insulted, as you said. My dad acted like that when I was a vegetarian a few years ago, even knowing that my choice was a dietary preference, not a moral or political choice.

To bring this back to the original question: do you think a non-vegetarian lifestyle is cruelty to animals? Your answer, clearly, is yes. Mine is no, and it was the same when I was a vegetarian. Though I don’t extend my “no” to factory farming. If someone truly believes that killing animals for food is wrong, it’s their moral imperative to not eat animals.

Plucky's avatar

Yes, I meant mammals. I apologize for my incorrect terminology. Silly mistake on my part… since I’ve been studying this stuff for ages ..lol.

I am aware the site is dedicated to discussion. I just notice that questions can get or seem to get “last-ditch” as you said.

I have not actually stated an outright yes or no on the matter ..on this page.
I believe the world is grey…not black and white. I believe killing animals for food when one lives in a society where it is unnecessary is wrong. I also believe that most of the killing in these same societies is cruel and inhumane. I do not look down on people that eat meat ..I just wish the ones that do eat meat would consider where it came from.
Go ahead.. eat all the meat you want, but have the decency to ensure the animal you are enjoying wasn’t kept/killed so barbarically. Respect the “meat” ..why is that so difficult for so many?

By the way ..I still believe I could survive on nuts and plants in the wild :)

As frustrating and knotted as this topic can be… I am glad I posted because it did get me thinking more about it. And, as always, it’s interesting to see others’ views on the matter.

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