General Question

Austinlad's avatar

How do you feel about the church in Florida planning to burn Qurans on 9-11?

Asked by Austinlad (16313points) September 6th, 2010

Besides allowing the entire world to see what a lie are the principles espouses and upon which the United States was founded, such a despicable act can’t help but further inflame hate-mongering extremists and infuriate peace-loving Muslims—not to mention further imperil our soldiers. How can any organization do this—let alone a CHURCH?

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145 Answers

jrpowell's avatar

It reinforces my hatred of Christianity. I not sure if that was the outcome they wanted.

And ALL religious organizations that collect money need to be taxed.

lilikoi's avatar

Here we go again with the ignorance.

Churches are 501c3 tax exempt non profits and have special rights beyond what other 501c3 non profits have.

janbb's avatar

Floridians are meshuggenah.

chyna's avatar

I have not heard about this, but if this is true, it is crap. I think a church should teach about Christ and the bible, not downing other’s religions. As JP says, this is why people have a hatred of Christianity.

Jeruba's avatar

Can we see a link to a news story so we don’t go all nuts over something that might be exaggerated or simply incorrectly reported?

I don’t see how a reaction that says “All <group> are <pejorative label>” does any of us credit.

Seaofclouds's avatar

I don’t see any good coming out of it. I think it’s sad to see people that have so much hate in them that they feel it’s necessary to do that to express themselves.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

I wish I had an easy answer for this question. It disturbs me, yet their action is protected by their freedom of speech. It displays a narrow, closed-minded, cold natured heart, which I have come to associate with Christianity and especially with fundamentalist evangelical Christianity.

It’s no better than the extremists in the Muslim world who target the West.

One of the basic tenets of the US Constitution is freedom to worship, and these pious Christians don’t understand that means all religions.

MissAusten's avatar

I think all Christians should not be lumped together, so while this church in Florida is doing something I feel is reprehensible, other churches would never consider such a thing.

It does amaze me, however, that people claiming to be Christians can so utterly miss the point of Christ’s teaching. A demonstration like that is disgusting to me, just like the “Christians” who protest soldiers’ funerals with “God hates fags” signs disgust me. There are many people I know who happen to be Christians but are also disgusted by such things.

talljasperman's avatar

I think the church just wants free press… people can’t be that stupid…they can’t…at least I hope they can’t

earthduzt's avatar

I’m really beginning to wonder if we are regressing back to the medieval times…“It’s a religion of the devil I say!”..“Grab your pitchfork and torches!”...“Burn their books!”.....pff…religion is such bullshit..it allows for ignorant and hateful acts all in the name of divine justice…what a crock!

SuperMouse's avatar

Here is a link to the website of the church that is planning this. I find the whole thing reprehensible and so incredibly wrong it makes me sick to my stomach. But if we are going to be a nation that holds freedom of speech as an inalienable right then we have no choice but to let the ignorant speak as well.

rebbel's avatar

This church has a history where it concerns anti-islam and anti-lgbt.
Not sure if they are middle-of-the-road christians.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

Here is a news story about the planned event.

Austinlad's avatar

Middle of the road Christians or not, it’s a horrible thing to do and casts a shadow on all religions.

DominicX's avatar

The fact that Afghanis have been burning American flags as a response doesn’t surprise me; Muslims burn American flags and shout “death to America” so Americans burning Qu’rans and saying “death to Islam” isn’t exactly all that “shocking” to me.

It is, however, unnecessarily inflammatory. This is done to get attention, which they are getting.

@johnpowell

And using this to generalize Christians is no better than generalizing Muslims based on the 9/11 terrorists.

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

Aren’t these the same people that often accuse me of being an elitist because I’m liberal?

It’s deplorable, but I’m glad they have the right to do it.

Austinlad's avatar

Floridians are meshuggenah.

To say the least, @janbb!

Austinlad's avatar

Having the right to say or do something doesn’t mean having to do it, @papayalily

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@Austinlad Much like how just because you can ride your bike from the couch onto the floor after consuming a liter of vodka doesn’t mean you should.

laureth's avatar

Petraeus Condemns U.S. Church’s Plan to Burn Qurans

I bet a majority of the people at that church sport “Support the Troops!” yellow ribbon magnets, too.

SuperMouse's avatar

@Austinlad I agree with your point, but taking away their right to do it does no one any good. We cannot pick and chose who gets to take advantage of the right of free speech. When we start doing that we are on our way down a slippery slope. I do believe there should be enough counter protesters there to drown out this message of hate, but I stand firmly behind the right of this imbecile to say it. As an American who respects the Constitution I really have no choice.

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@SuperMouse We should organize something! And it should include flowers and unicorns and LOVE!

Seaofclouds's avatar

According to this story, “Members of the Al-Falluja jihadist forum have threatened to “spill rivers of your (American) blood” and “a war the likes of which you have never seen before”. As @laureth posted, Petraeus even feels it’s dangerous for our troops in Afghanistan.

Regardless of how much these people hate Islam, they should be thinking about the rest of us as well. Sadly, their actions speak not only for Christians, but also for American in the eyes of the Taliban and other extremists.

Berserker's avatar

Doesn’t surprise me, when I consider what I heard about Harry Potter book burnings. I don’t think much of it, but I wonder how anyone figures that this is gonna solve anything, and then I remember that it’s probably just fueled by hatred and spite. I don’t see a desire for peace here, which is what I thought God was all about. Of course, I don’t know what the actual purpose or intent is behind this, so who knows. Not me.
As long as that’s all they can do against religions that they don’t agree with, maybe we should count ourselves lucky.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@SuperMouse Actually, what they are planning is against the fire codes in Greensville Florida. They’ve already been denied a permit for it but are planning to go through with it anyway, even after warnings from officials in Greensville.

GracieT's avatar

As a Christian I need to
Say that the actions of these so-called Christians saddens me. As a Christian, my belief in Jesus Christ calls me to protest these actions undertaken supposedly in His name.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@papayalily Here’s the story about them being denied a permit (here’s another one). It’s Gainsville Florida, not Greensville (I wrote it wrong above).

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@GracieT Protest how, if I might inquire?

SuperMouse's avatar

@Seaofclouds I think that is absolutely wonderful. I do not want these ignorant bigots to do something so disrespectful and horrifying. I have a nephew serving in Afghanistan right now and there is nothing I want less to put that young man in any more danger than he already faces daily. I am impressed that the powers that be in the city of Gainesville are so disturbed by this as to find another constitutional way to keep it from happening. If they do go through with it I hope every last one is arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

muppetish's avatar

As someone who carries literature so close to their heart, I’m against all book burnings out of principle. I can remove myself from the religious aspects of this act and still find it vile. It’s never a positive demonstration. It’s never a force for good. If they want to spread the word of their church, pass out Bibles – create more literature. Why burn someone else’s? It doesn’t make any sense to me at all.

Hooray for fire codes :)

lillycoyote's avatar

@papayalily one small way to protest is to go to the link that @SuperMouse provided, the website of the people planning this nasty little event, and click on the link at the top of the page where it says: Upcoming: September 11th is International Burn a Koran Day (click here for more details). That links to their Facebook page. If you’re on Facebook you can report their page as “hate speech.” I just did that. They have a right to say what they want, and I have a right to report their ugliness to Facebook and hope that the page is taken down. I gives them one less outlet for their ignorance. It’s not much of a protest, but it’s something and very easy to do.

Seaofclouds's avatar

If this little blog is true, this could potentially get ugly. It says, “An armed Christian organization, Right Wing Extreme, will protect a church that is planning to host an “International Burn a Quran Day” on the ninth anniversary of September 11, the church’s pastor said on Tuesday.” I’m really sad that this is going that far.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@muppetish It’s funny that you mention handing out Bibles and spreading the word. That is exactly what the Council on American-Islamic Relations has asked Muslims to do (source towards the end of the article).

@lillycoyote That’s a great idea about reporting their FB page as hate speech. I’m going to do that now too!

KatawaGrey's avatar

Personal morals and beliefs aside, I think any ostentatious displays of hate are a waste of time and energy. I feel the same way about animal rights activists who throw paint on fur coats.

I think the time and energy of this church, no matter what the personal beliefs of its parishioners and pastor(s) are, could be better spent elsewhere.

Also, as a bibliophile, I think burning books should be an executable offense.

GracieT's avatar

@papayalily, this is the first notice that I’ve had of this going on. It’s 10:00 on 9/6, so I don’t exactly know everything I’ll do yet, but at least a letter to the editor of my local newspaper. @muppetish, I also am appalled by the idea of destroying literature of any kind- the idea disgusts me.

judochop's avatar

I hope someone fly’s a plane in to their little party.
Nothing like fueling hate with religion to make it feel ok.
Fucking rednecks. Florida could become it’s own island for all I care.
(suggesting we saw it off and push it closer to Cuba)

muppetish's avatar

@lillycoyote Thanks for telling us about their Facebook page. I reported it, too.

@Seaofclouds Such a peaceful response is quite beautiful.

September 11th is the last day we should be spreading hate. We should all show how much we love one another in spite of our differences.

lynfromnm's avatar

Book burning is cowardly. Being afraid of a book is cowardly. Preventing people from making their own choices is cowardly. Symbolically, I think this act is intended to show that Islam is bad. I think people aren’t going to be convinced by this act that Christianity is any better.

CyanoticWasp's avatar

It’s inflammatory, unhelpful, misguided and stupid. It doesn’t address the real causes of the terror attacks of September 11, 2001. In fact, it exacerbates them. Those terror attacks were directed by a “religious fanatic”, not a representative of a religion. By the same token, burning copies of the Koran is just as wrong, and in the same way. An action such as this only tends to foster divisiveness and hatred—hardly the message that the “Prince of Peace” would have delivered.

But as long as people let religious hatred and intolerance guide them (and I mean any member of any religion, including atheists, hating any member of any other religion solely on the basis of their respective beliefs), then this is what we’ll get.

Fortunately, anyone who understands that the US government, as bad as it often is, has nothing to do with ties to any religion, or official influence over any religion, and has no say in whether this is done or not done. It’s up to the idiots promoting and supporting this to make up their own minds to choose to grow up or stay in the gutter.

lillycoyote's avatar

@Seaofclouds and @muppetish This is the first I’ve heard of this too but I checked out @SuperMouse‘s link to Dove Outreach or whatever they hell they call themselves and their link led to their FB page and reporting it seemed the least I could do. The more the merrier so anyone else so inclined, please make and effort to do so. Like I said, it’s not much of a protest, but it’s something and it’s easy.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
DeanV's avatar

I hear they burn crosses on Martin Luther King’s birthday too. ~

Seriously, though, that’s just retarded. What’s even more retarded is how many people will show up, though.

absalom's avatar

Maybe better books have burned, subjective as it is to say so (or maybe I’m just uncomfortable with all religious texts). But ideologically speaking I think this epitomizes the Church’s hegemony of ignorance.

And yes, these generalizations are sweeping, forgive me; I know most Christians probably find this just as atrocious as I do. As others have said, though, we should attempt to stymie overreaction. The purpose of the burning could only have been provocation, which is what people without anything significant to say must resort to for attention.

kevbo's avatar

I hope the filed for the appropriate permit with the city and have fire department personnel on hand.

Safety First!

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I think they’re wrong to do so. And that they’re idiots.

tinyfaery's avatar

I am in no way shocked about this and I am dismayed by that. Ignorance, fear and hate rob people of their reason and humanity. This act just reinforces my very negative views of religion in general.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

This came up earlier here. It is an important issue.
__________

I just sent Terry Jones a message with a cited bible verse provided to me by @BoBo1946.
_______________________

Mr. Jones,

If any one says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. (1 John 4:20 RSV)

Did you miss this verse? The first sentence on your Web Site Home page says:
“Dove World Outreach Center is a New Testament Church – based on the Bible, the Word of God.”

Does your Bible not have 1 John 4:20?

Not much “outreach” coming from the “Dove World Outreach Center”. It seems you have more hypocrisy than that of the pharisees.
______________________

Those interested can contact Terry Jones here. I think he’s serving up the same KoolAid as Jim Jones did.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@kevbo They were denied the permit (I posted a story about it above).

The more I read about this the sadder I get about this guys reckless disregard for everyone else around him. According to another article I just read, housands of people will be in town for the University of Florida’s football game against the University of South Florida (source). The article goes on discussing the local law enforcement’s involvement in all the threats and the FBI’s involvement.

I also read on another article (that I didn’t save) that this church has teamed up with the Westboro Baptist Church in the past. I’m really not surprised at all by that with the stuff on their site.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Thankfully, there are many level headed Christians, Jews and Muslims coming together to protest the event of Terry Jones burning a Qur’an.

I fear a new wave of Extremist Christianity may be upon us very soon. How vulgar.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

You can get a copy of Terry Jones new book Islam is of The Devil here on their home page. This is obviously a sick trick to garner publicity for his book. I cannot believe his congregation could be so blind… what a min… I take that back.

Jones’ YouTube vid is right there on the front page.

giovannidelacasa's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies: Terry Jones is wrong of course. Speaking in public about his great work can only spark doubts and hate. Non believers are not meant to partecipate to this new Crusaide nor to understand it. He should channel the Truth through a VPN. :)

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

He’s a charlatan schmuck of the worst order.

Seaofclouds's avatar

I wonder if he could be charged with reckless disregard if there was some kind of attack on his church that killed the participants of the event. I mean, he knows there have been threats of violence if he goes through with it. Sounds like reckless disregard to me. Though I’m not a lawyer or anything and really just thinking out loud at this point.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Ya Think? Petraeus Condemns U.S. Church’s Plan to Burn Qurans for it “could put the lives of American troops in danger and damage the war effort. Gen. David Petraeus said the Taliban would exploit the demonstration for propaganda purposes, drumming up anger toward the U.S. and making it harder for allied troops to carry out their mission of protecting Afghan civilians.”

“Sounds like reckless disregard to me.” and to mee too.”

MyNewtBoobs's avatar

@Seaofclouds What about the fire getting out of control, or a child being, well, a child and running towards it?

Gamer44's avatar

With all this dandy generalization going on, let’s just say “fuck muslims.” But then again, I don’t want to be the oddball in the bunch, so let’s call it fair. I’ll do what’s best for my country, rather than what I believe is better for me or the life of my ideals.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Now there’s some well thought out and helpful input.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@papayalily Very true! I’m trying to find the contact information for the state attorney in that area to ask him if it’s possible and express my desire for him to be held responsible for what his event causes. His name is Bill Cervone and I’ve found his phone number so far, but I was hoping for an e-mail address. I get a little to caught up in these types of things sometimes.

Gamer44's avatar

@RealEyesRealizedRealLies, it’s an example of how most people would automatically react vs. someone who knows how to properly set aside their beliefs, morals, etc. and judge as rationally as possible in his current state what would be the most righteous reaction. People seem to claim to have the psychologist state of mind, but still go on a monologue about how unfair this is to said religions or countries, as far as favored opinions go.

Example: it wouldn’t be fair if we’re living comfortably in a free country with rights to do as we please, but x country can’t because they are just peace-loving terrorists, and have less freedoms than we do. Do you understand? Stop bullshitting yourself.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

So people who claim “psychologist mind” can’t speak about fairness?

Who claimed that anyway?

I know you. You’ve now revived yourself as @Gamer44. And you are full of doublespeak.

The fact is that you said “fuck muslims”. There’s really no reason for you to speak further on the matter. You’ve said your piece. You have been heard. Now kindly move along and not burden us with your wisdom.

Gamer44's avatar

Hence, why I said as far as opinions go. We are an opinionated people, but we seek to learn more. The psychologist state of mind is getting with the facts and setting aside all you thought you knew (beliefs mainly) to be rational in your decisions. Do you have any grasp on my perspective? Do you even comprehend what I said?

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

You said “fuck muslims” and touted it as being “what I believe is better for me or the life of my ideals.”

What’s there not to comprehend? Your doublespeak? Say what you mean for I trust that you mean what you say. If that is not the case, then say “that’s not what I meant”.

But it is what you meant because your sarcasm was placed upon those who “don’t want to be the oddball in the bunch… call it fair… (and) do what’s best for my country”.

Your style of teeter totter doublespeak is all too obvious. You are very recognizable and reincarnating yourself as @Gamer44 doesn’t change a thing.

Say what you mean and please don’t leave it to dumb folk like me to “have any grasp” or “comprehend” something from that which wasn’t originally stated.

Gamer44's avatar

Reincarnating? What the hell are you on? I’m done arguing with you. Clearly, all I am to you is some kind of alien spirit. I don’t know what you’re trying to say. Seriously. What does that mean? Apparently I’m a returning unwanted pest?

jlm11f's avatar

I vented about this in chat earlier. It pisses me off. Extremism in any religion is idiotic. In fact, extremism in general is idiotic. By doing this not only is the church putting the army in Afghanistan in harm’s way (more so than they already were), they’re driving unnecessary attention by extremists like themselves but on the other side of the coin (Islam) and thus putting their church-goers and locals in danger. I won’t say more because I don’t want to get myself worked up over it for the second time today.

By the way, 8000 idiots on Facebook liked this idea.

cazzie's avatar

I abhor the burning of any book. It’s not the book’s fault there are idiot people out there who justify violence and hate by misquoting ancient texts and use it to uphold traditions and customs that were never a part of the book in the first place. (And I hope you can see I’m talking about BOTH books here…. ) This book burning will be a display of ignorance and fear and hypocrisy and it will do nothing to make America safer. If anything, it will simply give other nations another reason to point to America and either laugh, or shake a fist. Sure, it’s their right to express their opinion, no matter how poorly thought out.

iamthemob's avatar

Thankfully, there are many level headed Christians, Jews and Muslims coming together to protest the event of Terry Jones burning a Qur’an. I fear a new wave of Extremist Christianity may be upon us very soon. How vulgar.

It’s pretty much already upon us is the scary part, @RealEyesRealizeRealLies. You should take a gander at Jesus Camp if you haven’t already. Evangelical Christians literally raising their children to be “Christian Soldiers.”

I feel like there may be one benefit to something like this sort of extremism – it may soften the blow people are feeling surrounding the Muslim community center planned near the WTC site. I hope, at least.

SeventhSense's avatar

It’s freedom of speech and expression. How is that a lie? Regardless of whether you agree or not.

Nullo's avatar

Funny, I think, that nobody gets this worked up over Bible burnings.

Brian1946's avatar

@Seaofclouds

“Actually, what they are planning is against the fire codes in Greensville Florida. They’ve already been denied a permit for it but are planning to go through with it anyway, even after warnings from officials in Greensville.”

Good point and good to know that someone can probably put out that fire without being liable for any first amendment violations.

chocolatechip's avatar

So a church in Florida thinks Islam is evil because of the actions of Muslim extremists, which in turn has reinvigorated anti-US sentiment in Afghanistan because of the actions of Christian extremists?

What an unexpected turn of events!

Ben_Dover's avatar

It does seem rather un-Christian of them.

Perhaps they should be forced to read Fahrenheit 451.

zen_'s avatar

As a child of Holocaust survivors, I have a problem with burning books. Any books. I’d even have a problem with a broken Kindle being thrown out.

Nullo's avatar

I get the feeling that this is a church-as-community activity.
In part, I’m gleeful. In part, I want to tell the rampaging mobs in Jakarta, “See, this is what people not under the thumb of an islamofacist government can do.”
And part of me remembers that XKCD is always relevant..

Andreas's avatar

@Austinlad A Christian is a follower of Christ. Hence, if Christ would NOT do, neither will a Christian. These “Christians” are charlatans and anti-Christ. As Christ taught: By its fruit you will know the tree. So this “tree” (the Floridian church) is NOT representative of a Godly religion, but mirrors the days of Catholic ignorance in the Dark Ages with its warlike and unchristlike invasions (crusades), in God’s name, of the Holy Land. These are certainly satanic:not Christlike.

As for book-burning: this happens in totalitarian regimes.

Does anybody need any further points to consider?

These hypocrites disgust me, although they’ll most likely have an adroit method of justifying their attitude much like the religious leaders who fleeced the people in Christ’s time did.

cazzie's avatar

@Nullo I was only giving your xkcd reference a thumbs up…not the rest of your answer. I have a very good friend from Jakarta and she has a different take on her country than you do, and she’a Christian. How long did you live there?

poisonedantidote's avatar

It sounds terribly retarded to me, an exercise in futility. two words: printing press. you might as well just cut a check to the company that prints them.

the whole point of book burning is to supress the information in the books, in a world that has search engines burning books is basically just a way of letting people know you are not too smart.

Austinlad's avatar

@Andreas, not sure I can agree that all people who are called or call themselves Christians are “followers of Christ,” but otherwise, I take your points.

xdimqt's avatar

Feelings don’t matter. Just look at the ground zero mosque. According to the latest polls, I think around 77% of new-yorkers don’t want it built, but it will be built regardless of how people feel, thanks to freedom of religion. Despite how people will feel, likewise will happen when the Christians burn the Qurans, thanks to freedom of speech/expression. Funny thing is, Christians are exercising their right of freedom of speech by focusing on not allowing freedom of religion to the targeted religion (Muslims). It seems naturally that freedom of religion limits freedom of speech in that despite what is said/done about the targeted religion, freedom of religion will still protect the target religion (Muslims).

amazonstorm's avatar

It makes me feel a mixture of sadness and anger all at once. I don’t know if this is something that Jesus would do and I am sure he wouldn’t condone it, but I’m not one to judge.

Also, I find it incredibly offensive as this year, 9/11 falls on the celebration of the Eid feast, which in Islam, is the end of the month of fasting known as Ramadan. So, basically, they’re disrespecting not only their own religion, but someone else’s.

And as a lover of all books, no matter what they contain, I abhor this practice. It’s just a way of showing the world how ignorant and hateful you are.

chocolatechip's avatar

In Canada, freedom of expression does not include inciting hatred against others based on race, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

Is there anything like this in the US?

Seaofclouds's avatar

@chocolatechip We do have hate crime laws. Each state has their own laws. I’m not sure what Florida’s are.

JilltheTooth's avatar

Do you suppose even one of those planning to burn the Qurans could point to any passage therein that would support the 9/11 attacks? No. Didn’t think so.
My nephew is currently a marine serving in Afghanistan. My concern knows no bounds.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Haha I just got on KTRS radio in St.Louis and cited 1 John 4:20 to reject Terry Jones actions.

Won’t change a thing, but my comment was the only one where McGraw had no comment. He said “Thanks for your comments” and left me to go argue with someone else.

Nullo's avatar

@JilltheTooth There’s quite about about tearing down altars and destroying idols, in fact. You could probably use that as justification, even though the context is off.

@cazzie I was expressing my sentiments, which I base on my intake. Maybe the Indonesians can work on their image, if they don’t like how they’re perceived.

@chocolatechip Speech to incite violent responses is not Constitutionally protected in the United States, but I don’t think that it’s actually prohibited. I hope that we don’t try to prosecute thought crimes here.

crazyivan's avatar

I feel about the same as they would feel if I set up across the road and burned bibles.

JLeslie's avatar

I just saw on CNN a group of clergy, a cardinal, rabbi, evangelical Christian reverend, and others speak out against the qu’ran burning and other acts of hate against the Muslims. I’m so glad clergy from many faiths are speaking out.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Yes they are. I just heard on CNN that Terry Jones is having second thoughts about actually burning the Qur’an. No details, just a quip at the bottom of the screen.

chyna's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies He probably got death threats. That could make you have second thoughts.~

Aster's avatar

They are a cult of morons. I;d relinquish my membership but not throw out Christianity because of them. Anymore than I;d give up Judaism if a group of Jews burned a stack of Bibles which also (giving up the Jewish faith) would be an extremist act.

DominicX's avatar

The Facebook page for this now has OVER 9000 likers…

Seaofclouds's avatar

@DominicX I have to wonder how many of those people actually ‘like’ the event. I’ve read some of the posts on the page and there are some people that seem to have ‘liked’ the event in order to be able to post on the page. If you search for groups opposing the event, there are 2 or 3 different groups I’ve noticed. One of the groups has over 20,000 people that liked it.

DominicX's avatar

@Seaofclouds

Yeah, I just realized that. In order to comment, you have to “like” it and there are many comments that are opposed to it.

Disc2021's avatar

Pathetic, ignorant, rubbish. Just as hateful as the one’s who blew up the world trade center in the first place.

Nullo's avatar

It’s what you’d expect of hurt, angry people. Golly, who would have imagined that knocking down a couple of occupied skyscrapers could have that effect?

iamthemob's avatar

@Nullo

Yeah, but I would hope after nearly ten years that we’d know both how and where to direct that…at least the where.

laureth's avatar

@Nullo, funny thing is, the people who flew into the buildings are not your average mainstream Muslims. They’re wackos. They are like the Huttaree of Islam.

Now, would you appreciate people burning a bunch of Bibles (holy book of your religion) because the Huttaree (Christian wackos) planned to shoot up some cops and start the revolution? I’m thinking that it’s unlikely you’d be supportive, and already there have been protests in the Islamic world over burning Korans, too.

Nullo's avatar

@laureth People burn lots of Bibles. I have failed to so far be especially perturbed. I’m certainly not about to take to the streets demanding blood and justice. The Christian response to Bible-burning is, in many cases, to replace them with more Bibles.
Heck, I’d burn every copy of The Message “translation” in the world, if I could.

Andreas's avatar

@Austinlad not sure I agree with you that all people who are called or call themselves Christians are “followers of Christ,” but otherwise, I take your points.

They aren’t Christian as Christ would NOT do these things. Just because someone uses the label “Christian” doesn’t mean they are “Christian”. True followers of Christ identify themselves with acts of love, which this planned book-burning isn’t.

laureth's avatar

Fair enough, @Nullo. :)

dotlin's avatar

I will support this man’s freedom to be able to burn the Koran, just as I would support the rights of people in the Islamic states to burn flags, effigies, bibles.
I feel slightly indifferent about the burning of the books It’s a stupid book just like the bible, Muslims should stop overrating.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Book burnings have never produced any good for any society. At the very least, book burnings are a sign of societal decay.

Pandora's avatar

What can be said? There is no shortage of ignorant people anywhere in the world. However, maybe this little church (acting on its own) has no roof and its members have all suffered from too much sun to the head! Just a thought.
Someone get them umbrellas.
As, @RealEyesRealizeRealLies said, book burnings are never a good sign.

JLeslie's avatar

I wish the media would shut up about it. A church of 50 flippin’ people, who are all hateful ignorant idiots. I am glad clergy from many faiths have spoken publically condemning the act, I guess it is good the media showed that.

Pistol's avatar

Those morons wouldn’t know Jesus if he sat on their face and said “Where’s my butt!?”
They do this as “christians” when really that pastor is just a hateful person who is immune to reason and gives a black eye to loving christians.

Just the same as the jihad give a bad name to peace loving muslims.

Idiots.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

So funny I just had to slap my mamma! @Pistol

Cruiser's avatar

I say so what!! To attribute the burning of a book, even a religious book as some significant demonstration against all evil as this boob of a priest in Florida is attempting to do is IMO to insult the intelligence of all people in the world! I mean come on already!! To attempt to continue to indict the entire Islamic faith over some dastardly deed 18 Middle Easterners did almost 10 years ago is an ignorant effort at best! They (Muslims) know this so why can’t we demonstrate restraint and not over react to stupid moves like this and simply these ignore these idiots?

chyna's avatar

The estranged daughter of pastor Jones said he had gotten kicked out of his last church for dipping into the church’s money as his own. What a dick weed.

Pistol's avatar

@Cruiser indifference to these idiots in my eye is worse than what they are doing. The repercussions of his actions could affect us all in a much bigger way than you think. The last thing we should do is ignore them and let crazy people do whatever they want in whosever name they want. They claim to represent America; They don’t represent the America I know.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

It’s the same thing all over again. Americans are outraged that all so called good Muslims didn’t stand up in vicious defiance of what their extremists did to us. Certainly they did not approve, but they spend more time trying to convince us that they’re all not like that when they could be proactively collaborating to oust the violent extremists with some degree of assertive enthusiasm. Alas, the Muslim moderates have not come together to oust their extremists.

Yet we will be held liable as an entire nation even though we are actively speaking out against and assertively trying to stop our own non violent extremists. We’re on unequal turf hear. And it’s our own fault for falling into the hype.

Sometimes I think that ignoring non violent idiots is much better than flaming their fire, making mountains out of mole hills. Yet there are Muslim moderates who think that simply disassociating themselves from their extremists is good enough. Well I’m afraid it’s not.

Nullo's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies The fact is that most Muslims, extremists or not, don’t like us. Therefore they’ll seize any and every opportunity to make life difficult.

janbb's avatar

@Nullo How can you make such a broad generalization as that?

laureth's avatar

Even if @Nullo‘s observation is true, would it be wise to examine why it would be so?

Cruiser's avatar

@Pistol I don’t disagree with you nor suggest turning a blind eye to events that impact our society, but to give credence or attention to every nut bag especially this jamoke and his 33 followers is hardly significant or relevant nor representative of a speck on a sliver of our population and IMO not deserving of any attention what so ever. All this attention so far only encourages delinquents like this moron to go forth and do these off the wall stunts.

Just imagine if Saturday morning it was just him and his 33 people stood there in their church parking lot….burned their books, chanted or whatever….waved their hands and shake their fists…an hour later the fire goes out and they go home….like I said “So What!!”

Instead this douche get’s international attention all because he is 11 eggs short of a dozen in the smarts department? I am insulted that anyone would even care what this clown does or is going to do…after all it is American and we have specific freedoms to do just what he wants to do and it only matters if we make it matter and IMO this does not come even close to mattering.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

“jamoke?” oh that’s ripe!

MissAusten's avatar

@Cruiser I could totally agree with you if it weren’t for the fact that the backlash from this wacko’s actions could be taken out on American soldiers or even American civilians. It keeps being compared to burning the Bible or the American Flag, and while those things are repulsive to many people, they don’t carry the same deep cultural taboo or stigma that Muslims place on burning the Koran.

Just the fact that this guy wants to go ahead with his plan while knowing what additional danger he is putting people in shows what kind of person he is.

Cruiser's avatar

@MissAusten I respectfully disagree. I can’t for the life of me see how 34 people burning a Koran is one worthy of this kind of attention and 2, seriously going to put our soldiers lives in danger. I cannot for the life of me seeing a Jihad started because a dipstick priest is thick headed enough to burn a holy book in protest. I say ignore this nut job and at the very least, make him out to be the disgrace to his profession that he is and then offer a few apologies on behalf of the people of this country who condemn this act of stupidity and let cooler heads prevail.

Perhaps stopping the bombing and accidental killing of civilians over in Afghanistan will go a lot further at making our soldiers lives safer over there than all this hand waving over a book burning ever could.

MissAusten's avatar

@Cruiser You could also argue without so much media attention no one would know about this “event” and, therefore, extremists wouldn’t feel the need to protest it by violent means. And yes, you are very right about stopping the accidental killings.

It would just be horrible if some other nut job uses the Koran burning as an excuse to park a bomb in some public place.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

I wonder why the world didn’t explode when Atheists were running all those anti-God billboards in the UK a while back. It seems like somebody in the extremist camp is sleeping on the job.

I’m tired of walking on eggshells in the name of tolerance disguised as fear.

Whacko’s will always find an excuse to blame their sickness on others. If it’s not for burning a Qur’an this time, it’ll be for misspelling it as Koran next time.

Cruiser's avatar

@MissAusten You can also consider how many thousands of US flags have been burned in protest overseas and nobody here got their undies in a bunch over it. It’s all part of our uppity crazy world we live in.

Nullo's avatar

@janbb How many Muslim nations can you name that like us? Or even non-Muslim nations, for that matter.

cazzie's avatar

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_majority_countries

I think the majority of these countries are on ‘friendly terms’ with the US. Tunisia is an especially friendly place and I plan on holidaying there on my US passport as soon as I get the chance.

@Nullo why do you feel so hated?

Nullo's avatar

@cazzie Because I share the Internet with people who will not hesitate to make disparaging remarks about Americans.

cazzie's avatar

@Nullo perhaps you are extrapolating from a too small a sample.

iamthemob's avatar

This thread talks about some ways people are thinking about addressing their feelings about the church…

CyanoticWasp's avatar

Oh, hell, @Nullo, even I won’t hesitate to make disparaging remarks about Americans, loudly and often. But I still more or less “like” them. I do the same about Christians, and Christians are among my closest friends.

Why, you should see me with my family!

janbb's avatar

I just read on another site that Terry Jones in canceling the Quran burning! I don’t have a citation; will investigate further.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@janbb I couldn’t wait, I just had to look to see if it’s true! According to this it is!

In the article he says he cancelled it because he came to an agreement with Muslim leaders that the community center in NY would be moved to another location, but he had a local Muslim leader with him. It says no one in NY has agreed to anything. I have a feeling it isn’t over yet…

In this article he says, ”“We are, of course, now against any other group burning Qurans,” Jones said during a news conference. We would right now ask no one to burn Qurans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it.”” I find that kind of funny considering how much he was for it before.

DominicX's avatar

The funny part is that this nobody from a small church got international attention just by saying he would do something. His 15 minutes of fame were quite successful, I’d say…

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

Here’s an interesting take on the whole Koran-burning brouhaha.

Cruiser's avatar

@hawaii_jake Thanks for the link, I enjoy reading Meyers blog.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

More interesting news. There was a Muslim prayer room inside the World Trade Center.

JLeslie's avatar

@hawaii_jake That sounds like it is a prayer room; not a Muslim prayer room. Meaning open for anyone to pray. Same as the Pentagon. The Pentagon still has a place for Muslims to pray, anyone can pray there.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

That’s always confused me… as if prayer needs a special room.

The Baptist Minister says: “Lift your head and hands to the sky and praise God with your prayers in joy!”

The Methodist Minister says: “Hang your head bowed low in humility and reverence. The Lord knows your heart.”

The Catholic Priest says: “Recite the lines and let them speak to you to understand the proper words to approach a Holy God”.

The Penticostal says: “Let’s dance and shout ,speaking in tongues as we prance about”.

The Mormon says: “Approach your God almighty upon bent knee in reverence and submission”.
________________

But the child comes along and says: “I fell into the well. In two feet of mud, I landed on my head. I was stuck and dying, couldn’t move. And that’s the best prayer I ever said.”

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@JLeslie : The article states specifically that it was a Muslim prayer room on the 17th floor of the south tower. The point of the article is that Muslims have been a part of the area for a long time.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Makes perfect sense.

JLeslie's avatar

@hawaii_jake I must have skimmed it to quickly. I would guess other faiths were given space also though, in maybe another room? Wouldn’t you think? I think most people freaking out have no clue how many Muslims are in NYC, how many mosques are already there. I heard that the story about Park 51 was published months ago in The Wall Street Journal and there was not a big negative reaction. This didn’t start until the politicians took hold of it from what I understand. Think of who reads the Wall Street Journal. I know there are educated wealthy people who are not happy about the location of Park 51, but I have to wonder what the general socio-economic status is of most of the people who are so fervently against it. My assumptions could be wrong though.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@JLeslie : I wouldn’t be too surprised if there were other prayer rooms. The World Trade Center was enormous. And I believe your views on who is for Park 51 and who is against it are probably right on the money.

flutherother's avatar

Clearly a crackpot idea. The ‘church’ in question has a congregation of about a couple of dozen, about half of what it had six years ago when the present crackpot pastor took charge. What is disturbing is how seriously the world viewed this eccentricity.

JLeslie's avatar

I saw a 60 minutes about the owner/developer of the space, and it seems they are already praying in the Park 51 space. The architectural plans, from what little was shown, are beautiful. This guy, the developer, has a Catholic mother and a Christian wife. I recommend watching the clip it took a a little bit for the video to load when I opened it.

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