Social Question

iamthemob's avatar

If you're getting married, how do you tell/invite your gay friends?

Asked by iamthemob (17147points) September 7th, 2010

In the U.S., where gay men and women cannot enjoy the rights of married couples, how much do you (or do you think you should) take that into consideration? Do you think it’s any of your concern? And how much would you defend yourself if called on about your method of telling or inviting your friend (e.g., would you tolerate any criticism, even if neutral? Would you take it into consideration in how you went forward with the marriage?).

Further, in states where you can get a domestic partnership, do you think this exacerbates the issue (if any)? And if you’re currently married, do you consider how your gay friends feel about that in any way?

Thanks!

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59 Answers

tranquilsea's avatar

I would just invite them. They know I support them and their rights.

harple's avatar

If you are getting married, your friends will be delighted for you I’m sure, whether they’re gay or not…

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

I would not treat them any differently than my other friends. They get the same news, the same invitations. My gay friends know how I feel, they know that I support them.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

They’re my friends, we understand each other by now on such an important topic and I would tell them like I’d tell the rest of my friends and family. Most of my homo/bisexual friends have been to family and other friends wedding over the years.

muppetish's avatar

@iamthemob Can you provide an example of a method for telling/inviting someone in which they would be made to feel uncomfortable? I would be delighted to attend the weddings of those I care about because it is a celebration of their union in love, not a political event. If those sending the invitation are against gay marriage, chances are that I’m not friends with them anyway. But I don’t think any heterosexual couples should feel hesitation in getting married because others still lack their rights.

I don’t feel a domestic partnerships is quite the same as marriage and can’t help feeling irritated when people suggest anyone should be satisfied without the right to marry. It’s better than not having any rights, but it’s not equal.

Deja_vu's avatar

I’m sure my friends, gay or not would be happy to be there. I wish gays had the equal rights that they are already intitled to. It’s just very sad.

Katexyz's avatar

Just invite them like you’d invite any other friend. I think it would probably be more insulting to try to make a special deal about the invitation and word it in a specific and tailored way than it would be to invite them just like anyone else.

josie's avatar

I think we are over thinking the problem. But it’s not my wedding…

Kayak8's avatar

I would be delighted to be invited to the wedding of a friend . . . sexual orientation has nothing to do with my excitement to participate in their special event . . . while I don’t enjoy the same rights (in my state), I still support my friends and enjoy the support they show me for my accomplishments.

nailpolishfanatic's avatar

What does it matter if they are gay or not? They are your friends and you are supposed to treat them as you would like to be treated. So just invite them like you invite the other straight people.

CaptainHarley's avatar

I would just invite my friends, whether gay, straight, white or black, and let them decide.

JLeslie's avatar

I would invite them, just like I would invite anyone else. The same way infertile women who want children get invited to their friends and relatives baby showers. You can’t be worrying about how unfair the law is in this instance, your marriage is yours. You are overthinking it in my opinion.

harple's avatar

@JLeslie well said. People will only feel awkward if you act as though they should… when women at baby showers pity childless women, that is the point that they would start to feel bad and aware of their own situation. It takes away from the joy of the situation, which is actually what people are there to celebrate.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@JLeslie

Right you are. : )

iamthemob's avatar

@JLeslie

The same way infertile women who want children get invited to their friends and relatives baby showers.

Sure. But it’s slightly different in that case. Infertile women cannot have children physically. It will never happen there. Couples can choose to get married at any time…so why not wait until your gay friends can get married to?

Personally, I’ve been invited to a ton of my friends’ weddings. But not a single one has at any time in the process recognized that they’re doing something I can’t do legally. And one woman I know decided she was going to get a domestic partnership with her male companion, and I was taken aback by the support that showed.

Not to say that everyone should do one thing or another, but in many ways can’t it be more frustrating to see friends that say they support your rights doing the thing that you can’t without recognizing the irony in some way shape or form?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

When I got married my friends knew it was a union of a queer couple (even if we’re sexed differently) – mostly everyone at that wedding was queer and some into marriage and some not…the person that led the wedding made a conversation about Prop 8 and marriage a part of the ceremony and where we, as activists, stand – basically it was an understanding among those that joined us that if anyone will use the system for our benefit and for the benefit of our children, it should be us. I was very emotionally torn at that moment, it was a difficult couple of weeks but I was also 7 months pregnant and needed health insurance. The ones against same-sex marriage are the fools because we’re not straight and yet we’re married so screw your sanctity of marriage because your little mind can’t wrap your mind around a couple that looks straight but isn’t. This is what happens when people think arbitrarily in terms of love, that only same-sex couples are a ‘threat’ to ‘proper marriage’ – we’re a threat from the ‘inside’, you fuckers. You think we look like you and we have kids and you hang with us at the park and you’re all smiles – well, we’re not like you, we work against systems that you benefit from and we do it without you noticing.

tinyfaery's avatar

Just curious, do you think that heteros who want to marry should not as a show of support for their gay brethren?

I have been invited to 2 wedding just recently. I got an invitation just like everyone else. Both my wife’s (not legal) name and mine are on the invitation. I don’t see why I need to be invited differently because I am queer.

I will say, like in most things, heterosexuals do not consider how their privilege affects their gay friends. I am happy for my friends who are marrying, but I am not sure they have ever given a thought to the fact that though my wife and I have been together longer and have built a life together we cannot legally marry. I am not saying they should or must, but it would be nice to know that they recognize their privilege.

iamthemob's avatar

@tinyfaery

I am happy for my friends who are marrying, but I am not sure they have ever given a thought to the fact that though my wife and I have been together longer and have built a life together we cannot legally marry. I am not saying they should or must, but it would be nice to know that they recognize their privilege.

I don’t think they should not get married. I feel the same as this above – I think you hit the nail on the head.

Consistently, being invited to weddings where there is no recognition, before, after etc. of the fact that this was not a universal privilege, it seems to show a thoughtlessness that I was wondering about. Personally, but it seems to be something a lot of my gay friends have wondered about as well.

fundevogel's avatar

@tinyfaery & @iamthemob I’m not a huge fan of marriage as an institution. But I sure as hell think anyone should be able to do it. However I don’t see how having a segment of the population that does currently have the right to marry give it up does anything to help the rest of people get it. Show of solidarity or not, relinquishing rights you already have doesn’t really do anything to give those rights to the people who still need them.

I wouldn’t worry so much about personal sacrifices that can’t actually do anything to make things right and focus on things that can. If they’re your friends I’m sure they care about the problems you face, but I don’t think the politics of marriage should be allowed to cast a shadow on their special day any more than it should yours.

iamthemob's avatar

@fundevogel

I wouldn’t worry so much about personal sacrifices that can’t actually do anything to make things right and focus on things that can. If they’re your friends I’m sure they care about the problems you face, but I don’t think the politics of marriage should be allowed to cast a shadow on their special day any more than it should yours

The shadow’s been cast. But I don’t think either of us said we expected anything of the sort. Personally, I was saying that it’s odd that there’s no recognition at all. Can’t recognition be made in a joyful manner?

And should we be expected not to be at all offended by the lack of it? I can be both happy and sad about it at the same time.

iamthemob's avatar

@fundevogel

And not that this is what I’m advocating all around, but I think that personal sacrifices can actually do something to make things right in the end. Actions of civil disobedience, I would argue, are just that.

fundevogel's avatar

@iiamthe mob
“The shadow’s been cast. But I don’t think either of us said we expected anything of the sort. Personally, I was saying that it’s odd that there’s no recognition at all. Can’t recognition be made in a joyful manner?”

No I don’t think its odd. Weddings are supposed to be selfish things. When I go to a wedding I know that it is all about celebrating the relationship of the bride and groom. I figure I can give them a break and let them bask in it. After all, in theory they’re only ever going to do it once. I can let them just focus on themselves for one day. There are plenty more days to air your thoughts on the issue.

I do appreciate that it is a caring thing to acknowledge the unfairness of marriage in this country at your wedding. And if I were married before the right were universal I might mention it, I just don’t think it’s omission should be over thought.

“And should we be expected not to be at all offended by the lack of it? I can be both happy and sad about it at the same time.”

I don’t see why you shouldn’t be offended. It is offensive that some rights are with held. I just think the distaste should be directed at the institution or the government or the folks that deprive you of the right, not your friends and their failure to mention the issue at their wedding. Maybe that’s what you meant in the first place.

EDIT: I miss read iamthemob’s post and thought he (or she) thought there was merit in in hetero couples putting off marriage as long as the right wasn’t universal. So that bit of my previous post is irrelevant to either him (or her ) and Tinyfairy

tinyfaery's avatar

I have no idea how you got that from my post. Whatever.

fundevogel's avatar

@tinyfaery Assuming your are referring to me, I included you because you asked another poster if they felt hetero couples shouldn’t marry. Not because I thought you were advocating this.

iamthemob's avatar

And if I were married before the right were universal I might mention it, I just don’t think it’s omission should be over thought

Sure, I just wanted to know if people were against being confronted in any way, or think that it’s something that could be addressed, knowing that in although their friends would be happy, they’d also inevitably be reminded that this can’t happen with them.

I wouldn’t call that overthinking the omission – but it seems that the omission is ongoing in most cases I’ve seen, and I don’t know if that’s common.

iamthemob's avatar

I just think the distaste should be directed at the institution or the government or the folks that deprive you of the right, not your friends and their failure to mention the issue at their wedding.

I don’t direct any distaste at my friends for their choice. It’s just that if you know that your friend can’t do it, there are ways that can recognize that and make it a celebration of all forms of love. Why not, after all?

JLeslie's avatar

@iamthemob my friends and family know that I think it is an outrage homosexuals can’t get married. If you are telling me that gay people want an acknowledgement of that when I send them my wedding invitation then I am certaintly willing to consider doing it, but there are other people who could be upset by the marriage. Friends who are in the middle of an awful divorce, a family member who just lost their spouse, I still think it is not the job of the people getting married to think of everyone in the crowd who might be emotionally affected. I think not getting married might show solidarity with gay friends and family, but it won’t affect the movement at all. I would prefer to get married, honor the institution of marriage, and fight for the right for all adults to be able to marry the person they love, regardless of gender in a way that will actually affect change.

Related, but not, I want to say I also think gay people should get married by their churches or have commitment ceremonies, even if they cannot have a civil marriage legally yet. Fuck the law, the commitment and celebration with your friends and family can still be had. I am not saying it is the same as having the legal, civil, right; like I said it is an outrage to me it is illegal in most states. But, I will tell you this, if a couple introduces themselves as married, I do not ask them for their marriage certificate as proof. If I go to someones church wedding, no one would know if they did not also have a civil marriage. I recently learned that Kentucky does not acknowledge any marriage between first cousins. A friend of mine, his parents are first cousins, so technically their 50 year marriage is not legal when they are in the state of KY, but they know they are married, and so do we.

I have a theory about the chupah Jews get married under, I have no idea if this is true, but I like the story. I figure during the times that Jews were not allowed to practice their religion, not allowed to enter their temple, some smart rabbi said, “well, if you get married under a chupah it is as legitimate in the eyes of God as being married in the temple, we won’t let them control our hearts, minds, or our Jewish life.” I say gay people should do the same, start having ceremonies all over the place, make it commonplace, use the term marriage, if you are married, even if you do not have the civil marriage.

fundevogel's avatar

@iamthemob Well think we’re basically on the same page then. I think I misread your previous post so I apologize for getting into something that you really weren’t talking about. My bad.

BarnacleBill's avatar

Marriage is a civil, legal act, sometimes solemnized by a religious ceremony. You can have the civil ceremony without the church part and be married. You cannot have the church part without the civil license and be married

Heterosexuality has about as much exclusivity on marriage as purchasing your bride from the bride’s father with goats and camels, and expecting your bride to move into her mother-in-law’s tent, bringing cash with her. If you extend out marriage for procreation, then according to that argument should all women who are barren should be put to death so their husbands are free to marry again and have offspring? Or should he take another wife?

.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

Well, knock me over with a feather, and thank you for this question. The thought has never crossed my mind.

Let me offer this up as an explanation and not an excuse. I have a fair amount of friends that are gay or lesbian. One officially tied the knot in a civil union. For those that are in a long-term relationship, I’ve asked them if they consider doing the same, and the responses have been evasive. Not wishing to press the subject, I’ve let it go on the assumption that, a.) it wasn’t any of my business, and b.) there may be some underlying issues that I’m not privy to.

My excuse is that I have not done enough research on the rights of gays and lesbians when it comes to marriage. All I knew is that they had the same benefits within the company that I worked for as I did as someone who is straight, and that many states refused to allow the conduction of and/or recognize civil marriages of homosexuals. I wish my friends had educated me on this. I am thankful for those on Fluther that have opened my eyes to the degree of discrimination that the U.S. government, not to mention the general public, has when it comes to this right.

As someone who is currently engaged, it is too late to have a one-on-one discussion with certain friends about it. As for the wedding, our situation is a bit different. We will have a civil service union in England with only his parents present as witnesses; no one else and no official announcement and no gifts please. I will now take into consideration how I notify my G/L friends when we finally do take that step.

iamthemob's avatar

@JLeslie

I don’t pretend to think what “gay people” want. I’m just saying that, knowing that there’s no legal right for them to do so, and that there’s a battle against allowing it at all, those who get married nonetheless can’t find it surprising that it could remind their gay friends that they don’t have the same civil rights. So a lot can be done about that…like forgoing gifts for donations to a marriage equality fund. Or donating an amount to such a fund instead of centerpieces. Or having the officiant recognize it with a phrase in the ceremony. But I’ve never asked for something like that. No one should forgo a celebration…I think this is a unique instance to show support for your friends as well.

JLeslie's avatar

@iamthemob I think what I don’t like about the idea is that there is enough bullshit surrounding weddings that the bride and groom need to worry about. Who to invite, not offending people who are not in serious relations to not invite + guest when you have limited space, your grandmother criticizing the brides maids dresses, the brides family expects a formal affair with no children, his family is offended children are not invited. I just don’t feel like dumping on another responsibility for the bride and groom to worry about in terms of being PC or worrying about offending someone, it’s already enough judgement and expectations from the peanut gallery.

I think what you suggest is very nice, to acknowledge it when inviting a gay friend or family member, but I don’t think it should be an expectation, and I don’t think the gay person should feel offended if it is not done.

Lorenita's avatar

just the same way you invite anyone else

iamthemob's avatar

@Pied_Pfeffer

That’s kind of amazing!

@JLeslie

I don’t think they should either. But they might is all. I just have been kind of sad, personally.

Ben_Dover's avatar

Just send them an invitation like you do everyone else, of course.

JLeslie's avatar

@iamthemob I need to clarify, you are gay right? I am confused by how a couple of your answers are worded.

laureth's avatar

When I got married, my Plan A for officiant was the woman who was instrumental in introducing me to my sweetie. (We’re a straight couple.) However, the friend is gay and will not perform weddings until gay people can get married, too. That said, she still wanted to be invited. She brought her sweetie and they had a great time.

My plan B officiant was a gay guy I’ve been friends with for about half my life now. He thought it was swell and married us happily.

My mom is gay, and would not have missed walking me down the aisle for the world. She and her wife were definitely at my wedding.

There were lots of gay people at my wedding. Even though they can’t get legally married where I live, they are still my friends and were very happy to see me, at long last, married to a man who was a good match for me. I know it’s hard to believe sometimes, but gay people are just like other people. Unless they are real jerks, they’ll probably want to share in your happiness too.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@iamthemob
That’s kind of amazing!
I have no idea if that is a good thing or a shockingly bad thing in your mind, but I’d be happy to hear your feedback when you have the time, be it on this thread or in a PM.

Ron_C's avatar

The question seems to imply that a wedding is some sort of slap in the face of our gay friends. First of all we don’t classify our friends by their sexual preference or in fact classify them at all except by the frequency of mutual visits.

Unfortunately, one of my daughters was married in Japan and we didn’t get an invitation either. My youngest daughter was married locally and never considered the orientation, color, religion or anything except the fact that they were able to attend. I never asked or considered anything about their friends except that I found most of them to be intelligent and fun to be with.

Disc2021's avatar

You invite them but tell them that they can’t bring their partners, stare stare at any heterosexuals there, dance or speak.

… You invite them like any other person? I appreciate your genuine consideration, but really, it’s that simple. We’re people too just like any others and if you have homosexual friends, certainly they’d want to be invited. Being sensitive about this issue will probably create something out of nothing.

Austinlad's avatar

Exactly as you would tell/invite anybody. How they react and whether they accept is their choice, not your responsibility.

Trillian's avatar

“Personally, I’ve been invited to a ton of my friends’ weddings. But not a single one has at any time in the process recognized that they’re doing something I can’t do legally.” It’s not all about you.

iamthemob's avatar

@Trillian

Never said it was. But does that mean I should be expected to always ignore that nothing is ever said?

If I have straight friends who are constantly sitting at the front of the bus and not acknowledging that I’m at the back – should they be surprised or offended if at one point, I’m like “Hey guys – you know I can’t sit up there right? Can that be acknowledged once?”

If so…then that shows that they actually don’t care at all about the fact that I don’t enjoy the same civil rights.

iamthemob's avatar

@Ron_C

It seems to imply that because you can recognize that it does – I think it’s possible to experience joy for the event but be reminded about your situation at the same time.

So, isn’t there a way to recognize the civil rights issue while it still being a celebration? That’s what I wonder….

iamthemob's avatar

@Disc2021

But what’s the harm that could result out of acknowledging the problem? Why can’t we invite everyone in the same manner and recognize the civil rights issue nonetheless?

Trillian's avatar

I think your parallels are inappropriate and unfounded. Obviously this is a problem for you though. I think that your friends probably never gave it a thought. Certainly before your initial post it never ocurred to me, and the parallel of a childless woman at a baby shower was never in my mind.
If it bothers you that much, maybe you could mention it to your friends. I don’t know what you exect from them. A side note on the invitations? A notation on the marquee? Do you see what I’m saying? What, exactly, would you recommend?
I don’t know how appropriate it is to try to make a wedding celebration a platform for an issue of yours though.

iamthemob's avatar

I think that your friends probably never gave it a thought

I know they didn’t. Shouldn’t that be a problem? I’m not talking about just during the wedding, but before and after…it’s never mentioned.

I don’t expect anything, but I would expect something eventually. I don’t think that should be surprising to anyone – if it is, then people aren’t thinking about how being silent can support the contrary of what they might actually believe.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@iamthemob I completely agree that it’s a problem that heterosexual friends of queer people never give it a thought – but that’s a general problem with heteronormativity, it sucks.

iamthemob's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

I agree. But are you surprised by the inclination to defend that thoughtlessness?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@iamthemob I don’t get surprised by much.

tinyfaery's avatar

Note:

My very good friends who are getting married in February came over for dinner and Apples to Apples last night. I asked them both what they thought about this question. They both said that they never gave it a thought. They also said that now that the idea came into their consciousness they do feel that they should say something to their queer friends acknowledging the fact that they enjoy and take for granted a privilege that is denied to others. They then asked the wife and I if were offended by their omission of privilege. Of course, we said no. But I did tell them that it is nice to know that they recognize their privilege.

JLeslie's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir @iamthemob Have either of you planned a wedding and gotten married? Do you remember the questions ItalianPrincess posted, her initial worry about picking a date, the crap guilt some people in the family gave her on how she worded invitations, there was more, but I cannot remember it all right now.

I can’t believe on fluther you can say heterosexuals don’t give it a thought, when so many of us obviously care about a homosexuals right to marry, and we completely understand that we are being afforded a right that is not being afforded to all, and it is a disgrace. If my friends know this already, which they do, they know how I feel, do I have to think or say something during the planning and chaos of my wedding?

About 10% of the people at my wedding were gay (around 10 out of 100) and I don’t think they were thinking I was inconsiderate, I think they were happy to be there, and to see me happy. Goodness knows they danced all night, they seemed to have a good time

iamthemob's avatar

I can’t believe on fluther you can say heterosexuals don’t give it a thought, when so many of us obviously care about a homosexuals right to marry, and we completely understand that we are being afforded a right that is not being afforded to all, and it is a disgrace.

If you read my posts, you will see that I never said it was never given a thought. I felt like it could be addressed because the issue was so obvious. What it seems is that, from people’s reaction here, that if it were brought up, it’s offensive that they should have to think about how by not saying anything about it they are missing the chance to really show support. I can’t believe that.

About 10% of the people at my wedding were gay (around 10 out of 100) and I don’t think they were thinking I was inconsiderate, I think they were happy to be there, and to see me happy. Goodness knows they danced all night, they seemed to have a good time

I have had a wonderful time at all of the weddings I’ve been to. That doesn’t mean that I wasn’t also sad about each and every one. My friend had a wedding in S.F., in the Castro, in a gay bar. She had a best man, who was gay. He gave a speech that was only about their relationship. He and I had talked about how it was never mentioned that even though we were an integral part of the wedding, we couldn’t get married. We loved our friend, shut our mouths, and had a great time celebrating them. But there was an underlying sadness.

That was a wedding screaming for a comment on the irony of the entire thing. We didn’t want to hurt our friends by suggesting that something should be done. However, why shouldn’t we just ask? Again, would that be offensive? If so, aren’t you saying we should just always be happy at the back of the bus?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@JLeslie I have been married twice and, therefore, planned two weddings. You can read my first comment to this question as to how I acknowledged this issue. I didn’t say heterosexuals don’t give it a thought – I said it is a problem when they don’t which doesn’t apply to people who do.

JLeslie's avatar

@iamthemob I get it, I really do, but I think your expectation is too high, the demand is too high on the people getting married. People who are thinking what others should do generally are angry or constantly dissapointed. I am not accusing you of always having should dialogue in your head, maybe this is the only area where you think like this, and it is not your personality in general, your entitled, we all have things that get to us. If you reframe the event, that the people getting married are caught up in themselves, their love, their wedding planning, you might feel better is what I am trying to convey. I am only trying to say that from the bride and grooms point of view, they aren’t purposely hurting you, I hope you understand that. I understand that it may not take away the moment during the wedding where you feel sad that gay people cannot have the same thing, but I am trying to take your expectation off of the bride and groom, because I think it saddens you more.

I have been pregnant 5 times. Each time I wanted to be pregnant, each time I lost the pregnancy, or had to take medicine to terminate it in teh case of my ectopic. It is a sadness that I cannot even begin to explain. You do not have the legal right to marry, but you can be with the person you love most. I don’t even get a shot at seeing my child be born. Sure I can adopt, but that is another topic. I am NOT comparing legal marriage to having a baby. Each persons pain matters. But, when my girlfriend is excited about her new baby, I don’t expect her to take the time, with everything she has going on, to say to me, sorry I am having a baby when you are not. Not at her event, not at her shower. Not in private, and not publically. My close friends and family have been there for me in my sorrow, have visited me in the hospital when I had an ectopic, have called me when the IVF did not worked. I just think in that moment of their joy they don’t have to worry about how life can be unfair, whether it be caused by nature or outside forces.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir My mistake.

iamthemob's avatar

I just think in that moment of their joy they don’t have to worry about how life can be unfair, whether it be caused by nature or outside forces.

They don’t have to, sure. But I shouldn’t have to be reminded about it and keep silent either right?

There’s always a happy medium. That’s all. Wouldn’t the joy be greater if we could make that happen?

I’m just concerned about those who say, “I just shouldn’t be bothered.”

JLeslie's avatar

@iamthemob Do you mean you should not be bothered by them getting married? Or, be bothered that they did not acknowledge you can’t? Maybe I am misunderstanding.

iamthemob's avatar

Interesting question. The thing is, I don’t think it’s appropriate to say one (anyone) shouldn’t be bothered by either. I think in fact everyone SHOULD be bothered, regardless of sexuality. The reaction to that shouldn’t be hyperbolic in any case, though – an angry diatribe from the pulpit in the middle of a commitment ceremony can be as unsettling (if not more so) as complete silence.

However, it will always be a reminder of a legal battle that has nothing to do with individual circumstances. So what are some good ways that we can deal with it, knowing that? If we’re talking about it, nobody should be offended, I think, unless they’re taking the extreme viewpoint of “I should never have to do anything because if I get married that’s never about you” OR “You shouldn’t get married because then you don’t support me in my struggle to gain the right to do so too!”

Ron_C's avatar

@iamthemob “So, isn’t there a way to recognize the civil rights issue while it still being a celebration? That’s what I wonder….” Frankly when we got married and when our kids were married, civil rights and all politics were the furthest things from our minds. Of course that was well before gay people demanded the same civil rights as straight. My guess is that, now, should we attend a marriage ceremony, that though would be much more in the forefront.

I am not at all religious, but feel strongly that all people must have basic civil rights.

I still remember my anger and sadness when I saw the news where MLK was shot by a racist redneck. I was quite relieved when states like California and Massachusetts finally allowed gay marriage. I also remembered being dismayed when California regressed with proposition 8.

I have lived through the major progress from segregation to the election of a mixed race president and once thought that progress was enevatable. Then I saw the regression with Proposition 8 and movement away from desegreation by policies that still keep non-white people from the best schools and jobs. We will see if America’s real attitude towards freedom in the next election. I fear that most progress in all matters of freedom will be diminshed it the right wing prevails.

I won’t be just the gay people that loose, it will be all of us.

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